If someone called me an asshole for making my villain too sympathetic I'd take it as a compliment... well till they start yelling repeatedly about it.

@Karmasu_L

2 ай бұрын

My thought as well. I consider someone making a villain like this the good kind of asshole. 👍

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

It generally depends. There are times where having a sympathetic villain is good, and there are other times where you need villains that are there for the evuls. Both have their places. (Personally, the "sympathetic" villains have been getting a bit out of hand, but that's just me.)

@suitdoggy4707

2 ай бұрын

@@Keiji555 Though tbf if someone has this strong of an objection to sympathetic/SOB villains it probably should be a point to bring up before entering a campaign.

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

@@suitdoggy4707 Yeah, and what to establish in session 0. Reading the room, and knowing who the group is, and where they stand could be important to figure this out. Sometimes, I don't mind a good sympathetic villain, but other times there are so many of them that show up in each and every show in a year, that I want my Skeletors. Generally, the tone of the RP, and the storytelling will tell me what I'm dealing with.

Never cancel a campaign over a problem that can be fixed by removing one person. Also, aggressively lashing out at the DM or players should result in immediate and irreversible ejection. It doesn't even warrant discussion in the moment. Just...get out, if you want to talk about it, we can talk tomorrow, but you're never coming back to the game.

2nd story: OP should continue, without Sarah. Sarah sounds like a person you definitely do not want anywhere near your life.

@idreadFell365

2 ай бұрын

I agree op should continue with Sarah. Sarah doesn’t need to be hanging out with incels.

That "immortal villain" Story might be the most tragic story I've heard in a while for one reason: It sounds pretty inconsequential. But the fact that because of it there is a DM who is considering sticking with Evil McEvilface instead of making villains with any kind of depth, no matter how clishe or overdone, even if they don't like one dimensional villains, is just so sad to me. Like, if someone can't handle villain having a reason to be evil, then I don't know... Skill issue, I guess

@bowser5678

2 ай бұрын

I have to imagine the one person who hated the BBEG having sympathy was one of the players who rage quit over bandits being realistically intelligent and not Evil McEvil like they “should” be. (Remember that horror story?)

@rb98769

2 ай бұрын

It's quite creative, not a trope you see all that often. Reminds me of that legend in Christianity of the guy who attacks Jesus on his way to crucifixion and ends up being cursed with eternal life.

@TheGateShallStand

2 ай бұрын

I mean sometimes you just wanna be evil for evils sake.

@Drums_of_Liberation

2 ай бұрын

Evil shouldn't have to have a reason to be such some times they just want to watch the world burn. And quite honestly sympathetic villains have become so overplayed thanks to Tom Hiddleston's Loki and the like.

@nihili4196

2 ай бұрын

@@rb98769 Troupe is not a derogatory term. Writing troupes are templates, nothing more. Whenever they're good or bad depends on how they are being used. And when it comes to bible, in some stories Cain was also cursed with eternal life so he would watch his offsprings wage wars on each other for eternity. Something being used often doesn't mean it's bad, it means it's effective. Only time trope is bad is when writer has skill issue^^ Just wanted to clarify that

Irredeemable bastard villians are great. So are sympathetic ones. Let's have them both. Variety is the spice of life. And a cursed with immortality villian could definitely be one that's sympathetic but you can still absolutely despise. I could definitely picture them having become so detached from mortal beings that they see no issue with taking lives for their goals because they think they're giving them the greatest gift "If anything I envy them!"

@jrytacct

2 ай бұрын

Not to mention, the villain already has the greatest gift - continued life. Now he should get on with enjoying that and stop angsting about it. I have a cryonics contract and this is my goal IRL. I'm not going to complain about avoiding oblivion, I'm going to *celebrate* it!

@kurisu7885

2 ай бұрын

FF7 Rebirth revealed one and I thought it was pretty well done.

@lulolie

2 ай бұрын

I agree, like Pierce/Cain in the Lucifer show

"The dungeon master claimed he was being generous to the new guy" has the same energy as "I could kill your character, OP. I could literally kill your character! And I choose not to! I'm the freakin' dungeon master!"

@lexfiles721

2 ай бұрын

The last part feels like a reference to a certain psycho 💀💀💀

@alphons1456o

2 ай бұрын

@@lexfiles721 A certain "p-word hunter" if you will

To me at least, People who say every DM should be like Matt Mercer are the same kind of people who tastes someone’s cooking and say they should be more like Gordon Ramsey. 1.) one way to do something isn’t the only way to do it. 2.) it’s likely those same people couldn’t even manage to put in the same effort as you, let alone the person they compare you too. Just let people cook or DM the way they seem to enjoy and either enjoy it or make it yourself.

I'm proud of the people in "Ableist DM". Usually it takes weeks or months before people see somebody's BS and find the courage to leave. Sounds like everybody figured it out right away this time and left, as they should've.

@informitas0117

2 ай бұрын

I felt sick hearing that story. Here OP is brave enough to try something new that could have been a world opening moment, and this over grown toddler of a DM proceed to be a complete garbage human undeserving of oxygen and treat OP as comical relief due to forcing them to play with a handicap OP has IRL. It REALLY begs the question if DMs characters play with 1 in Charisma and Intellect as that's what he has IRL. I think this story uniquely rubbed me the wrongest way as I'm schizophrenic, and the thought of having a DM throw that in my face would send me.

I would have told the angry player in "BBEG" to either get on board or get out. The DM had no reason to apologize. That's an absolutely fabulous storyline and I would be proud to be a part of something that epic. Heck, if I ever come out of retirement, I'd run a campaign around that.

For that last story, why is anyone not allowed to be anything other than just humans with a max Strength score of 14? I mean, gotta play what you are, yeah? But honestly even if I had a sight impaired player who wanted to play a blind character I would give them Blindsight or TremorSense for fun to keep things fun for them. DM is just a dick.

@unciuncia420

2 ай бұрын

Ditto, or perhaps a familiar they could see through, for a blind archer.

@ChobinoftheFunk

2 ай бұрын

I'd like to know how that DM expected a blind spellcaster to work offensively, given most ranged spells are Line of Sight

@unciuncia420

2 ай бұрын

@@ChobinoftheFunk They didn't, though a familiar would do the job.

About the second story, seems like she had an issue with the NPC looking up to a male character instead of being a "by my bootstraps", "don't need no man", "girl boss" type. The extremely independent female character is not bad in and of itself. However, men can be heroes and have positive and admirable traits. Even if the guild student has an inflated opinion of the guildmaster because of personal history, that is still okay. Not every character should jive with your personal politics and worldview.

@starofjustice1

2 ай бұрын

If you don't have any conflicts, what do you have to create good RP from?

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

​@@starofjustice1Depends on if the conflict stays in-game while not causing problems above game.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Definitely. I think a longer version of this story (I think from a player's perspective) mentioned how the problem player wanted the other female to be her hype woman and tried to take her with when leaving.

Yeah that couple that ended up divorcing there's no chance in hell that that relationship was going to survive. They were clearly having tons of problems beforehand

I made my BBEGirl so likeable my party recruited her.

@Nyx685

2 ай бұрын

POWER OF FRIENDSHIP (tm) 😁

I love villains you can relate with. It's why Magneto is one of my favorite marvel villains because even if you don't agree with him in what he does, you can empathize and understand where he comes from in why he does it.

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

Well, I'd say more Captain Cold rather than Magneto, as Magneto has been more heroic than villainous. And by Magneto, I mean Erik Lensheer. Not all the other ones, like Xorn, Exodus, Joseph, etc. (Safe Lorna Dane. She's a heroine.) But Erik became a hero, and all he needed was a good debate and have his opinion acknowledged, even if you disagreed with it. Captain Cold on the other hand can be sympathetic, but he still makes excuses, even when he recognizes that his sister deserved to die and deserved their father, because she dragged Cold back into villainy when he was trying to clean himself up.

@thehowlinggamer5784

2 ай бұрын

@@Keiji555 Ok, fair. Maybe ot'd more accurate to call him a reformed villain like Vegeta or Picolo.

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

@@thehowlinggamer5784 Piccolo had a great redemption arc. Personally, I can't stand Vegeta and his McRedemption. He's gotten several ones, and he still is the cause of the villains reaching their full power, just because of his ego. But that's just me.

@thehowlinggamer5784

2 ай бұрын

@@Keiji555 Uh, fair. Still though his death to Buu hits pretty hard and in my opinion is 100 times better than *THAT'S MY BULMA!*

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

@@thehowlinggamer5784 Yeah, fair. I guess I'm more of a classic DB fan.

17:52 Nah, if a player cusses me out in my own house over something this stupid, then that's an instant boot from my game. And I'm willing to give them a second chance, but they have to be the one to initiate. I know the "talk to them" approach is mostly the correct response, but yelling at me and cussing me out in my house is a no-tolerance thing with me.

1st Story: Yeah Doge is right that marriage was falling apart already even if OP had stopped the session. 2nd Story: Op should have taken Sarah aside and talked about this more and it she wouldn't budge on it at least tell her that she has two options to either leave or just play and not make an outburst like that again. Just because you see Matt Mercer do something that you think is awesome doesn't mean everyone has to live up to the same standards. 3rd Story: Doge is right again always tell your group when you're gonna get up from the session for any reason. It's on you if you miss something important without telling the rest you need to get up and be afk for a bit for any number of reasons Doge stated, It's not on the DM or other players. 4th Story: That was an awesome way to show off a villain from the usual kind of villain. I really hope that what Doge said here are the reasons why that Player got so mad about that. Because if it's just because of the way he stated it, Dude ruined DnD for himself. And come on sometimes a little bit of difference can be a good thing, you can't always go up against your same old cookie cutter bad guy. Last Story: People like this DM have no reason being dm's or being around others in this world. If you have a problem with people being disabled it's on you. People like op have found ways to adapt to be capable in this world just like the rest of us. I'm glad op and everyone else walked out on this Trash DM, though like Doge think it sucks op has never wanted to play again because of that DM. I hope one day he gets the spark to play again.

That last story rocked me off not gonna lie. It was like the DM thought he knew the other’s characters more than they did on top of being ableist.

Bet the player that didn't like that npc wouldn't have had a problem if the roles were reversed or all the men were women. Admiration isn't an exclusive thing, anyone can be inspired by anything. And a guildmaster isn't doing their job right if they do not inspire people to be strong. Nothing about that npc being inspired was creepy. Its the fact she was looking up to a MAN that the player had a problem with.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Probably. Honestly sounded like another perspective of a very similar story that elaborated how the problem player tried playing victim and wanted the other female player to be her hype woman. Also gave me vibes of this bad Octopath Traveler article claiming the female party members having men they look up to (mostly father figures) was sexist along with things like summoning/recruitment abilities being used by women.

@AmaryInkawult

2 ай бұрын

@@ArcCaravan ah yes the "how dare this woman look up to a MAYUN!?" article. Stupidity like that is why I'm happy these game journos are imitating a sinking ship.

@solosynapse

2 ай бұрын

Pretending to be psychic or making up scenarios in your head doesn't make it true, though. Sounds like you're just imagining things to be mad about?

@AmaryInkawult

2 ай бұрын

@@solosynapse did you mean to type this under a different comment? Cuz everyone prior to you was talking about shit that went down in the video...

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

@@solosynapse Were you talking about the problem player making up sexism complaints based off an NPC relationship? If you meant the original comment here (your phrasing could be read either way), it's a reasonable conclusion when someone tries labeling something as wrong just because the people involved happen to be those genders with nothing implying they couldn't be exactly the same otherwise.

Story #1 - Pretty obvious that divorce was on the cards regardless of the couple's activities. Story #2 - Yup, dump Sarah. It really is that simple. Doesn't matter what the DM does, she'll find something to complain about. Story #3 - 'It's very simple, Steve. I'm going to tell the party stuff ingame, and if you've secretly gone walkabout for whatever reason, THAT is on you, not me." Story #4 - This was actually a very good idea for a BBEG. Not all Villains wear Black Hats, snigger evilly, and want to Rule The World. It's possible for a really good (or bad, depending how you look at it) villain to be none of these things. In the Harry Potter books, Dolores Umbridge always seemed to me to be a far worse villain than Voldemort could ever be. He just wanted to kill anyone who got in his way; she lied, cheated and ####ed with people's minds, and then told them it was all for their own good. Clearly this BBEG idea triggered issues for the Player in question, and it is emphatically NOT the DM's fault. He did absolutely nothing wrong, as evidenced by the reactions of the other Players. I'd suggest trying to have a quiet sitdown and talk with the Player, if possible. If not, carry on without him. Story #5 - This DM was the very worst kind of @$$hole, and I am glad that the other Players reacted as they did. It is sad that OP has stayed away from the hobby since.

The last story actually makes my blood boil. I've know two people in my life who were Blind or almost completely blind. One was my Mother who made Jewelary and crafts by hand. She was completely blind in one eye and had lost nearly all vision in her remaining eye. She produced such beautiful works... of metal workering, and Jewel setting. She made Tiny Fairys in Bottles and trees made of fine wires... if someone walked up and told me blind people were "worthless" or "Useless" I would have decked them in both eyes and let them see what it's like to be blind...if only until the swelling goes down... bloody prick

@MrSiren52

2 ай бұрын

My grandfather was a blind WW2 vet, he went on to run his own business and provide for his wife and three children. He taught me so much about tools and fixing things. Forget walking out, if I heard some little bastard say the blind can't do anything he's bee eating his meals through a straw for the next few months.

It might just be that I'm slightly introverted and spend most of my time alone, but immortality sounds great. Getting to see your great grandkids achieve things, how technology progresses, making new friends, having time to learn new skills etc.

23:19 Are... are you implying that you're not _really_ a canine? My world is shattered!

tbh a blind barbarian would be a really cool concept if that was what you actually wanted to do, maybe their other senses are heightened to compensate, and then even moreso when they're raging, like their rage is guiding them

@shnorkeythefourth4572

2 ай бұрын

They’re so angry not only can they not see but they can’t hear anything other than their own screams and heartbeat. Guided entirely by something natural like smell (fear, sweat, blood) Or super natural like spirits whispering things during his rage state prodding him further and guiding him to his target.

If op on the last story has a way to have comments read to them and lives in the omaha area, come on down to Game Shoppe by the home depot off of 144th and maple. People hold weekly (my group every other week) on Wednesday nights starting around 5-6 until the store closes. Most everyone I encountered there are friendly and welcoming to new and old players. I just gave a dad and his daughter looking to get into it a free set of dice to to help Kickstart their interest.

@absolutfx

2 ай бұрын

@thehowlinggamer5784 Wish I was in the area, you're doing something amazing.

@cobaltcouatl1476

2 ай бұрын

Its a shame they never picked up the hobby again. I’m also visually impaired. I have a terrible set of 3-D printed braille dice. They’re absolute crab! But I don’t need them. I just roll regular dice and ask what the number is. Then I do the math in my head. This literally was my horror story. I kid you not the same thing happened to me. But instead of not wanting to play anymore, I played and became a better DM than the one who forced me to play a blind monk. Most of my games are on discord, so dice rolling bots are my bread and butter. And I read all of my books as PDFs. We don’t have things to make it easier for us to integrate into the hobby. But if someone who was blind, and really wanted to play, they could easily do it. If only that DM didn’t sour the hobby for the OP completely.

@thehowlinggamer5784

2 ай бұрын

@@absolutfx Thanks. Just paying it forward. We all were NEW to everything once and D&D is just one of those things that can be overwhelming to try to learn everything all at once. Just doing a small thing to help make it easier on them and letting them know about apps like d&d beyond that van make things way simpler for tgem.

Some points about the last story: Blindness is a spectrum. There are some ppl who are legally blind who still have some working vision, even if it's 5% A blind character can absolutely be a melee fighter. Anyone heard of Daredevil? Blind people are not "useless" and many work for a living.

@starofjustice1

2 ай бұрын

The DM sounds like a huge spongehead, though. I'm not surprised he didn't get that.

"I can't die, so I'm going to kill everyone to see if that solves my problem." Honestly, I don't find him sympathetic at all. He's engaging in an extreme act of selfishness for a gamble I have a hard time believing he thinks has a decent chance of working. It has extreme "The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math" vibes.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Sounds closer to tragic than sympathetic, honestly. Nothing was forcing the group to agree with the DM's view of the villain nor condemning heroes against this BBEG.

@Greekphire

2 ай бұрын

"If I can't find a way to die I'll just outsource the job to a random group of do-gooders." The BBEG at some point probably.

@CallOfCathulhu

2 ай бұрын

I can see it working if it was some sort of plan to destroy existence in its entirety and hope it took ‘em with it, rather than just “kill people”.

As a person who is considered blind I'm far past legally blind but still have some vision left for context. I have played blind characters before and usually just a flavoring thing or I end up getting seats like blind fighting and or tremor sense etcetera as part of the narrative or my perception checks are at disadvantage with site but perception checks made with other senses are at advantage so balances out there are other ways as well like someone did and I believe a critical role campaign against character play to someone who was blind but had a familiar that day saw through. Also, IRL I do practice both ranged and melee combat so to speak... And I'm not too bad especially for a blind dude so that specific DM is wrong.

BBEGs don’t need to be evil to be the antagonist of your story. Everyone is the villain of someone else’s story. I suppose though, what can really change a story is whether or not the BBEG is portrayed as Sympathetic while doing absolutely horrendous things. Like, no one wants to feel sorry for an unrepentant monster, even if they have a valid reason to be one.

17:35 I think having a BBEG have motives is pretty important and these motives can be simple, complex, morally just, abhorrent, selfish, selfless or anything else. I have a fey queen who is theoretically the bbeg and one of the thing she's been doing is kidnapping fiends and murdering them in order to steal the souls they have, the reason why is because the god who's purview is to manage what happens to souls when they die isn't doing his job and the souls she is rightfully owed are all being stolen / taken by fiends. Hence she is taking back what she is owed.

@Keiji555

2 ай бұрын

Interesting motive for your fey queen. a good motive can be as complex as that, to being a "Take over the world!" type of villain. Both have their place.

If I had to leave my PC I’d do it wearing wireless headphones so I could hear what’s being said even if I cannot respond to anything.

@cg313

2 ай бұрын

That's usually what I do. I usually put it on mute and do what I got to do but still listen unless I'll be gone for longer then I'll say brb

I ain't got much to comment on, just wanted to say thanks for making a video on my birthday, Doge. Hope you have a great rest of your day.

Story 3, our group puts BRB in the Roll20 chat and “Back” when we return. I also mute myself and carry my phone so I can listen in if what I’m doing it quick and not taking me around family who may overhear some weird inside joke the party has, or if we are at a VERY important moment (that I am not a key part of. Otherwise I’ll delay leaving unless it’s an emergency)

That divorce would have happened anyways. Even if they had no imagination to play the game... I guess they could have made some bonus rounds possibly, but that depends on people and how much spare time they have. They were just looking for bat to beat each other.

2nd story sounds incredibly familiar, almost like it's the same story from a different perspective. It had the same issue of player getting offended over NPC party member defending male boss's honor. The other version of this story mentioned the player tried making the other female player be her sidekick or hype woman before failing to take anyone with her when she was leaving in probably fake tears. The group just replaced her and continued.

Re: ableist DM: erm............ wtf?

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

I'll admit that's a new flavor compared to sexists and racists.

Ever notice people who preface their story with a disclaimer about English not being their first language almost always have better grammar than us native speakers?

Last story with the impaired player is the first story, ever, to make me angry. I'm schizophrenic and getting angry is hard for me to muster but I got mad both for how horrible I felt for the player and thinking about if a DM would force me to play a schizophrenic just because I am one. Does this garbage DM force people with broken legs to play that too? Awful DM. Throw it away.

Abelist DM Story. Well somebody has never heard of Zatoichi the Blind Samurai Master. Or for that matter the Blind Archers from Samurai Jack, Daredevil from Marvel Comics, or Harvey "Blind" Pew from Yellowbeard. Just to name a few others. Not to mention that some one accustom to fighting without having to see would be killer in a dungeon fight. Picture it. Party is attacked by a bunch of creatures with Darkvision in a dungeon well underground. Party caster casts Darkness and Party retreats. Creatures realize this and hear Party leave, so pursue knowing they will be out of the effect soon. But Blind Fighter stood still in the passageway in the Darkness effect area; and now gets Opportunity attacks against all those creatures as they rush past.

I hope the first DM doesn't feel to bad. usually these kind of things happen gradually and for legitimate reasons. if his game wasn't the trigger for the divorce, something else would have been.

Holy shit that last story makes my blood boil. Hopefully karma came around for that DM, sorry that OP had to deal with that.

If we had elves and dwarves and whatnot in real life, you’d better believe we’d get instances of people being told they can only play elves/dwarves/whatnot.

Kitties get likes, but so do Doges. Put the two together and likes are inevitable.

Twist: ableist DM is Steve Huffman.

1st story: Wow, I really expected that to go differently when I heard one of them was a bard and it ended in divorce. But nope, it was just "what do you want to do first?" that destroyed everything, lol. 2nd Story: Obviously just kick Sarah out. She's the only one with a problem with it and making problems. I'd also tell her "wow you don't think a girl should be inspired to become an adventurer? Kinda sexist." Or you could just make that npc a boy. It doesn't really make a difference. But she'd probably complain about that too.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

If the second story is just a different perspective on a story I've heard before, she left after failing to get the other female player to join her then the group found a replacement.

S2: I'm loving this. An idiot pretending to be a "Misandrist screaming Misogyny" and as usual, an asshole hiding behind Mattyboy in hopes it hides their a douchebag and of course fails as always. Plus what I love is while watching this. I'm playing Fire Emblem Three Houses and a favorite character of mine is LEONIE! A Girl who dreams of becoming a mercenary to follow in the footsteps of a Merc who helped her town out and taught her a few things. That Merc was Jeralt, your MC Byleth's Dad. And alot of her dialogue is fangirling the guy. She's also a solid fucking unit in the game. Good Archer, Good Horse Rider with a Lance, Hard to pick if she should be Bow Knight or Paladin (She's basically emulating Jeralt who's class is Paladin and is known as the Blade Breaker because he's an expert Lance user....and a joke on the series weapon triangle where Lances beat Swords). She doesn't come off as weak at all for wanting to emulate a man. Oh and in the same game we have "THUNDERSTRIKE CASSANDRA" (Catherine) one of the games GODLY units (seriously unless you're on one Route and no NG+ or ALOT of grinding! The game will fucking GIVE YOU this unit AND her Broken ass Sword in the early game and even if you get her LATER, she still godly as HELL. She's the games "Oh you didn't have much luck with many of your units, here's a Godly one to make up for them) and then there's Shamir....nuff said. Wish I could tell Sarah that "complaining about Women getting saved by men and looking up to them, is MUCH older and played out by this point!" Hell I'm HAPPY to still see it never falling out of fashion (especially when the "Damsel" isn't useless and actually AIDS in her position of captivity or starts rescuing herself making the rescue attempt even EASIER! People whine about Peach when many of the games, PAPER MARIO 64 especially have her attempting to save herself and YOU get to play those sequences and even if she fails, she still sends aid as she can to Mario. So it's not like she's doing NOTHING! But I guess it's less "they didn't know" and more they "ignore it on PURPOSE" because they know it defeats their STANCE and knocks them off their Soapbox, so as long as they downplay or ignore it. It doesn't exist. This is why people say to IGNORE these idiots when they pull this! When they pull it, it's clear they were just POSTURING and are empty headed morons trying to use a "stance" to justify being unpleasant! Nothing is gained via TOLERATING or dealing with them. Unless you LOVE the fumes of their toxicity) And the commenter @yaldabaoth2 said it best. "OP should continue WITHOUT Sarah" as their right. Sarah is a POS hiding behind the "Mercer Effect" (Poor POOR Mattyboy! He's got all those assholes hiding behind using him as an excuse for being assholes so blame goes unfairly in his direction! Not that it largely effects him. But I'm sure he can't STAND if he's watching all these Horror stories revolving around assholes using him as an excuse to be assholes! I'm starting to think people like Sarah are in another category of FAKE FANS who know about the Mercer Effect and try and use it AND him as an excuse so when they cross the line, they'll blame HIM for why they acted like they did. I say REWARD her by kicking her since she being a Problem Player on PURPOSE and she knows it!)

Since today's my birthday I'm happy to say this was a good birthday gift. Especially the kitties. The kitties are the best.

Plottwist: The "antagonist" of the "immortal villain" story is actually a sympathetic villain, too: instead of being a random jerk, he was overwhelmed when suddenly confronted by a suicide/assisted-suicide/suicide-by-cop plot twist because, for some personal reasons, he wasn't ready to share with the group, suicide was a tough topic for him. I'm not saying that's what happened. However, it's not outside the realm of possibilities and, actually, I find it more likely than some otherwise chill person just randomly throwing a fit over "I don't want my character to have even 1% of sympathy and understanding for a villain's motivations!" While it is also possible that someone does prefer cartoonish villains as their escapism, there's still a lot between stating a preference or disappointment over a preference not met in a fictional story and having an emotional outburst and fleeing the situation.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

That thought also crossed my mind and it can honestly go either way: someone wanting purely selfish escapism or a bad response to sensitive topic.

The DM in the third story sounds awesome! F-that player that's angry, the DM ahs created an interesting villain and weaved an impressive story.. his players are lucky to have him as a DM.

1 story sound like the marriage was not to be

* St1: yeah. Yeah, as it said, it's not the straw that breaks the back, but all the BS that precedes it. * St2: no need to reason with such players. Point to door, "Play with Matt Mercer then". Im all for feedback, but some feedback doesnt deserve anything that booting the player. Reminds me Revolutionary girl Utena anime. She was saved by a prince. She decided to become a prince. * St3: hear, hear. (Also it's possible to mute yourself and take phone+headphones to the loo, just make sure to mute) * St4: is player on spectrum or meds? The reaction is not normal. Having deep characters is awesome. Especially considering here they can probably find ways to avoid fight with BBEG: let's be honest, couple of rolls and he can postpone his plans while party is looking for "cure". It's not like he runs of time * St5: WTF. I had to make a tea break and brew myself some tea to calm down.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

St4: Admittedly it's possible the player was secretly offended by the goal to "self delete". Granted ranting about how tabletop villains shouldn't be more complex than "evil to be slain by heroes" does not earn pity compared to being upfront with legitimate discomfort.

For the BBEG story, how is someone who just wants to end everything, 'sympathetic'. Sure, they've suffered, but they're taking the most extreme route to end it all. That's INCREDIBLY selfish and very dangerous for you know.. the world and the party. If anything the party should only feel enough sympathy, to feel the agency to find a way to stop this maniac before they conclude with their plan. No reason for that guy to get so pissy, as that's some of the most dangerous villains known to fiction. The 'I've lost everything and have nothing left to lose' types.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

I'm guessing OP mistook tragic for sympathetic, though the end goal was something beyond "evil for it's own sake".

I understand if sympathetic villains aren't your cup of tea. It can be really fun to just beat up a totally evil a hole. So I understand if you might feel a little uncomfortable about fighting someone so symptomatic. But to be so legitimately angry that you start cursing them out in the middle of the session is just not cool. If you have a legit disagreement with how the game is being run, you can have an honest discussion about it, and hopefully come to a compromise, and if not maybe excuse yourself from the game. Handling it like they did is not only rude but flat out disrespectful to all the time and effort the dm has put in. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were having a bad day like Doge said, but please don't be that guy. I know it's hard, but if you are having a bad day, try to leave that stuff at the door, and if you do have a disagreement take a deep breath and discuss it calmly before lashing out.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

While still not an excuse, the problem player didn't rant until after the session ended on a cliffhanger. Some think instead of just a bad day, that player may have had a bad response to a sensitive topic with the villain seeking to "self delete". Though nothing to confirm the player's motive either way, just that it led to a hurtful response to OP.

It's sad to see Mercer virus strike again, no DM is Mercer and shouldn't be compared.

the fourth story reminded me of a dungeon master that asked me to play exclusively carachters of the same gender as me, which not only was weird, but also kinda disapponting because I was very ready with my male paladin.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

If you mean the ableist DM, that was the fifth story. 4th story was about a player cursing out the DM for making a sympathetic/tragic villain rather than generic evil.

I think regardless of the medium, the BEST villains are those who are not entirely wrong. Black Panther wouldn't be half as interesting a movie if Killmonger wasn't right on some level. Same goes for Magneto in X-Men. Or half the villains on Star Trek. Cancer Man on The X-Files was a total bastard, but he really was right about how the alien's long-term plans were and was trying to save at least SOME of humanity. Mulder real did almost bring about human extinction. And it is why The Thinker was the best villains on The Flash TV series. Not to mention characters like Walter White, who started out kind of a dick and became out and out villain, or Saul Goodman who started out plain out nasty but by the end had a lot more good traits than one might expect.

People like the DM in the last story don't deserve to have any players in their games.

Vision impaired isn't necessarily blind. Needing glasses is vision impaired, which is something he could have potentially bought in game. That DM sounds like a jerk.

The BBEG story: Really? REALLY? So because the guy is suffering and you feel the pain of his situation ... suddenly wanting to destroy the WHOLE REALM is not villain worthy? A villain is an EVIL ANTAGONIST, its not about what they went through what matters is what they do with their circumstances what matters. Just like in real life, just because one suffers doesn't mean you get to make others suffer for things you couldn't control back then. I get the BBEG suffering but my sympathy for him ends when he decided he has to destroy everything and everyone to get what he wants, if that is not INCREDIBLY SELFISH and unworthy of sympathy I don't know what it is.

BBEG story: it might just have been a bad day, but if player ultimately can't deal with the story, he should probably just look for another group that better meets his expectations. It sounds like everyone else in the group is having fun, including the DM.

I prefer villains who have proper reasons for being the way they are, and are more nuanced. So yeah, that villain with literal death wish was awesome. And the DM in the last story was major AH! It was good to see the solidarity of the group when they dropped that piece of shit. Hopefully the OP of that story gives the game another try.

That guy who made an immortal BBEG literally made a less interesting Nameless One in a cookie-cutter fantasy setting.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Sounds standard for all tabletop BBEGs: less interesting copies in a fantasy setting.

Sorry I'm so late today, work has been like kittens at midnight - but you got my comment and kitties do get the likes.

Story 1: I think we can safey say that if an argument over D&D triggers a divorce, it wasn't about D&D. Honestly, I feel the Wizard's player may have done them both a favour because that fire had clearly been smouldering for a while. Story 2: Sarah clearly has issues. It is worth noting, however that this world has a long history of men infantilising women and denying them agency. This unfortunate fact makes Sarah's reaction somewhat more understandable. NOT right - she's making a massive assumption based on a single instance - just understandable. Maybe point out to Sarah that with men making up around half of the population, there are bound to be times when they hold positions of authority and that it's unfair to judge your intentions based on one instance of a dynamic, solely based on your gender. If Sarah's not willing to listen to reason, however, OP needs to politely tell her that his game isn't for her and that she might be happier running something herself; that way, she can make the world's gender dynamics whatever she wants. Story 3: That players sounds a bit of an arsehole. Whether you like the plot or not, there's no reason to behave like that. I mean fine, some people aren't motivated by interesting narratives and want a villain they can just kill guilt-free but OP's far from being an AH for wanting to introduce a more complex one. Story 4: Ugh, that's so stupid and wrong it makes my brain hurt. To anyone who thinks this story isn't real, be glad you don't have first-hand knowledge because this is not in the slightest unreaslistic.

Now in regards to final section. With the vision impaired player and the DM making the character blind. Would it have been better if that DM gave that PC "Blindsight" or "Tremorsense" instead? Please keep replies civil, I'm still a new DM, but that sounded like an interesting concept, Blind Player or not, it could hve been an interesting character with "blindsight" or "Tremorsense"

@starofjustice1

2 ай бұрын

It's a non-question, because the DM shouldn't have forced that on the player's character in the first place. Forcing a vision-impaired player to run a vision-impaired character, I guess under some flawed logic that they wouldn't know how to RP anything else, is absurd. Role-playing games are supposed to be about exploring possibilities. I've heard of a few ttrpgs that suggest the players run versions of themselves. D&D and Pathfinder are not on that list.

@starofjustice1

2 ай бұрын

If you're asking what the best way is to simulate a blind character in-game, I'm sure there's at least one reddit thread dedicated to answering that question.

Intro: Aww; Alice and Lucky. That cat killed that guy! But they looked so cute doing it. Thumbs up. Story 1: WTF! That title! OP; that's all on them, not you. Story 2: Oh no. That title. Ohhhh, one of those feminists. As a DM myself; she can leave. Story 3: His fault. Story 4: Good god player. Do not change your characters if just 1 is not happy. I know where OP is coming from with the self confidence being rocked but DO NOT change your story for the sake of one sour puss. I would LOVE to be in that campaign. Story 5: Uh oh. That title. WHOA! WTH DM! DM license revoked!

Story 3 - player should have told everyone they had to step away. Also, Rudolph van Richten is not and has never been a gnome.

Having a sympathetic villain that actually works is freaking masterful storytelling. That angry player freakout was unjustified, and dude needs to chill and reflect.

4th story, that's literally Salem from Ruby, just a dude.

BBEG = Big Bad Evil Guy?

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Yes.

kitties also get comments!! Hope this helps with the algorithm

The thumbnail anime looks familiar (maybe I've seen that girl's hairstyle too much). What is it?

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

I feel I've seen the boy's hairstyle too much.

DnD DID NOT cause the divorce in the first story. If anything it was simply just the final nail in the coffin, their marriage was quite obviously going to be ending in divorce sooner or later anyway wether they were in the game or not if something as simple as a DnD disagreement could be what ended up ending it. And for the second story, NEVER end a game just because of the actions of one single problem player. It’s not even close to fair to the rest of the good players to punish them too when they did nothing wrong. The only correct decision is to kick the problem player out and keep the game going unless the rest of the party agrees to end it.

i rolled a nat one on the subscribe AND like button. im sorry.

I love DTT

I'm dragonborn in real life, lol

Dnd didnt cause a divorce, if your relationship is so unstable as to be effected by a ttrpg. That wasnt a marriage worth having.

As soon as I heard "we all watched CR and thats why we got into dnd" I knew exactly where it would go.

Last story DM feels like a parody carricature of an asshole DM come alife.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Considering all the sexist, racist, and abusive DMs, I almost feel surprised it took this long to encounter an ableist DM.

@robertwildschwein7207

2 ай бұрын

@@ArcCaravan But this specific one wasn't even trying to be remotely subtle about it. He just feltt like a cartoon villain come alife.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

@@robertwildschwein7207 Sounds like a ton of problem players in these tabletop horror stories.

Kitties!

Eject Sarah from the game. Problem solved. She can go play with Matt Mercer.

2 kittys, 2 clicks of the like button

I'm thinking about DMing for some friends but I really must ask, is it mandatory to lack a spine as a DM?

What do you think a party composed of Doge and Cats could look like? Any RPG is on the table

I dunno, if a player has a problem with a female character being saved by a male character, then maybe we should introduce a male character who refuses to save women because it's too sexist and demeaning for women to be saved by men.

Seventh

It might piss some people off but I stand by my statement, Matt Mercer is one of the most overrated GMs out there. He runs an improv theater show and he drones on, and on about pointless crap more than Tolkien did until I'm just checking out due to boredom. All to tell his story. Don't play your game or expect it to be like CR.

@OmegaStarwatcher

2 ай бұрын

I agree. If I had a dime for each time, my DM style was called crapy because it wasn't like Matt's, I would have nearly 20 bucks.

@rb98769

2 ай бұрын

People have to keep in mind CR is a show first and a game second. It's just not representative of what the average game is supposed to be like.

@MayHugger

2 ай бұрын

I feel like that’s a bit harsh, he’s just trying to make it entertaining for both his players and the audience.

@OmegaStarwatcher

2 ай бұрын

People also need to keep in mind that each DM style is different. I try to make the game fun for my players, adding in a little of everything like comedy and horror. I've been told by past players that I wasn't dark enough to run a d&d game. When I said each DM is different they blew up at me.

@andreacallegari7137

2 ай бұрын

That's only C3 Mercer. C1 Mercer was very different. The corpses dangling from the Sun Tree? The Chroma Conclave attack? The Kevdak fight? There's a reason why they can play DND for a living, and Mercer's descriptions and mannerisms are a BIG part of that.

Story 2: that is what terminally online feminism does to people. They start to grift about perceived sexism where literally none exists.

I honestly think Sarah was valid in her remarks in that second story. The problem is, she was playing with people who are probably incels.

Critical Role and its consequences have been a disaster for tabletop role playing games.

People like Sarah are the reason I rather play as a male character then a female one, because almost anything that happens to a female character is sexist and/or badly writen.

@ArcCaravan

2 ай бұрын

Sometimes it's not worth the whining to play as a woman.

@monikasernek1177

2 ай бұрын

@@ArcCaravan Not to forget if you give your female character flaws as being a jerk or acting as a smart a*s you are seen as a girlboss™ and not a flawed character who has to learn humble or nicer to others.

The depressed immortal idea is always so silly to me. As if joy and loss aren’t already ephemeral. Just because you lose things in the long run doesn’t devalue having those things in the first place. It seems to me like a purely academic idea that takes the concepts but not the reality of the idea.

The first story aint a horror story its a big ol👍 from me and congratulations to the hopefully happily divorced Druid and Bard. Class Dming from Ji🫡