Brand new to this hobby, and I have no regrets starting with space wolves.

@jensablefur155

Ай бұрын

I have a friend who plays them who is a really nice bloke. In fairness I've rarely seen the negative stereotypes of SW players in my local scene. Most literal furries I know play Guard, or Nids. In my experience they don't gravitate to the wolves as much as the memes suggest (Metalheads definitely do though, lol). But my experience is quite different from the online noise and I've had a good time against Wolves at the table (even if the Harald lists and all the "thunderwolf cavalry + storm shield charrrrrrge" spam is a kinda annoying thing to be up against in 10th). Never let anyone tell you you've put down money on a bad army if you like them 👍

@MrJediknightkrazy

Ай бұрын

Bjorn the fell-handed to me, is cooler than Rylanor although i absolutely love Rylanor👌🏽💯

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

Good luck, and do their awesome concepts justice. -A Dark Angels players

@PeepUpon

Ай бұрын

I can't wait to read more about Rylanor. I'm only 3 novels into the Heresy but I've heard he's a badass.

@Jethric

Ай бұрын

I'm putting a Wolves army together now and having a blast modelling and painting them, and putting them on icy bases. You'll get some pushback for choosing the woofers but prove them wrong by being an awesome and sporting player with a cool army, it's what I intend to do with them.

Our local Space Wolves player is a genuine legend, and has positively set a ‘proper’ idea of the faction in my mind. He’s a veteran of 30-something years, and I’ve fought a metal lieutenant in his force that’s older than me. He paints most models in dark grey with colour for heraldry (thinks it looks better, and they do, but I’m not against the blue), and is a brilliant narrative player. His solution to the Thunderwolf cavalry, was to take the wolves, and set them running to one side of the base. Then he gave put an Assault Intercessor, with a huge buckler and a Thunder Hammer, sprinting alongside their companion with a Jetpack. They look beautiful. Like with the Ultramarines or Grey Knights- GW can release all the terribly-written lore and cartoonish box art that they like, but a good player can fix and elevate a faction for everyone in a local group, and they’re a bloody pleasure to face on the table.

North's still butt-hurt about that Grey Knight that "had to split" 😂

I effing love it. Let me expand: It adds that underlying "grimdark" tragedy element to the whole chapter. Betrayed by Horus and led to kill a brother Primarch. And imagine strike cruisers out and travelling the spacelanes, returning home to Fenris every so often with their accumulated loot and swapping epic tales of the honored dead and glorious battles.

The Space Wolves' true power is plot armor so strong it over powers everyone elses plot armor.

@riptors9777

Ай бұрын

HAH.. they dont hold a candle to the ultra marines and everyone spiritual liege.. rowboat gummyman!

During the Battle of the Fang they lost their chance to fix the Canis Helix Curse. That's huge.

There's a short story where the Wolfspear actually meet the Space Wolves and the awkwardness they feel at how the Wolves chug mead and sing drunkenly is pretty funny - you'd think having the Geneseed of Leman Russ would have them acting like close brothers or best friends, yet they act more like the introvert nephew being made to sit next to a boozy raucous uncle at a family reunion. Also the Storm Wardens were invented for Fantasy Flight's 40K RPGs, specifically for the Deathwatch game; they can replace their combat knives with CLAYMORES, which is hilarious to imagine an eight foot tall alien hunting murder machine swinging a zweihander taller than he is whilst roaring in Gaelic Scottish. lol

Still a better love story than Twilight.

I love lore based rant like this. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Necrons.

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

As a part-time Necron player, I look forward to that as well. They were my first faction, I’m interested to hear what he thinks about their current handling.

I mean, we also gotta give the blood angels fair treatment too. Wolf this, wolf that is just as bad as blood this, blood that.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

With the wolves it's WAY worse 💀💀

@mattbaxter688

Ай бұрын

Ultra this ultra that Iron this iron that

@palwinderdhillon8242

Ай бұрын

Blood Angels nomenclature is heavily inspired by Latin, and other such so it's a little more palatable.

@ralphiemay8933

Ай бұрын

What blood this and that? Only thing I can think of is the blood chalice

@philipbowles5397

Ай бұрын

When Khorne ever gets a unit or item where you don't get to play 'blood, gore, skull' bingo, you can start complaining about Space Wolves. At least some of the wolf names make a degree of sense - after Bloodletter and Bloodthirster GW stopped trying with Khorne. 'Bloodcrushers'? You can't crush blood - it's as ludicrous as 'Fyreslayers'.

I’d like to point out that scene in the book echos of eternity where a space wolf called “no foes remain” gets obliterated by a thousand sons marine, so there was at least 2 on terra during the siege 😂.

I think that version of space wolves lore would indeed make them less cringe.

Honestly, given all the times they beat other space marines, could the wolves have been inducted into the inquisition in a similar role to the grey knights, but to hunt corrupted marines rather than demons? It would give a bit more credence them being able to do whatever they want and having the power to beat powerful chaos chapters.

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

That is the actual purpose of the space wolves to keep other legions in check

Leagues of Votann - space vikings without being so on the nose.

Space Marines riding giant wolves into battle is just so stupid and mega cringe. And everything as ‘wolf_x’ is also cringe. Wolfcringe. Leman-Russ Abbott cringe.

@horuslupercal2385

Ай бұрын

**Frostcringe

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

@@horuslupercal2385 that sounds like a status effect applied by reading too many Spacewolves data sheets.

bonjour, i see the wolves like a space marine version of the dark eldar in lore. raiding partys of great warriors. hunters and trackers. full of named characters and legends. where as the dark angels are knights, wolves are barbarians (D&D comparison)

Space Wolf exceptionalism had made them a pariah among some fans. You're right, it needs to be.. what do you call it when you do the balance sheet? Reconciled, I guess? Yeah. My Iron Warriors are tougher than everyone else and better at a lot of tactics, but they have major flaws and a bad reputation. Space wolves just...exist. With zero consequences.

@philipbowles5397

Ай бұрын

To be fair, different factions exist to market to different audiences. When Space Wolves were the Big Thing among Marines in 2nd Ed. the bulk of the audience were kids who thought Vikings were cool, wanted Their Guys to have extravagant plot armour, and didn't have any taste for subtlety ... and the GW staff of the time were much the same. Space Wolves still exist to bring in that part of the audience. There's no coherence or purity to the 40k setting of the sort North wants - it's always been a grab bag of tropes thrown into the blender that makes very little sense if viewed as a coherent setting.

Honestly I don't mind the Wolves. Yes they're a bit toyetic compared to the sculpts of other armies and the lupine units in particular could do with a redesign, but I like their aesthetic and lore.

I don't mind the space wolves as an army, but the thunderwolves should never have been mounts. Just a separate unit like the Fenrisians. Thunderwolf Cavalry isn't just a really obnoxious unit to face down on the table... Its hard to take them seriously. A lot of the models are really ugly sculpts too. The Fenrisian Wolves and Canis Wolfborn look appalling.

@Raygun9000

Ай бұрын

Thunder wolf cavalry could be done if it were like the admech cavalry. Only in scout armour. Perhaps a decent invulnerable save due to cybernetics. But it is pretty stupid when bikes exist (but that's the same for admech 🙃).

On point 6, if you read the grey knights book about hyperion, it's almost worse. He kills the grand master while he is prepared, Logan is so fast at advancing and chopping the grand masters head off he doesn't even have time to draw his blades. And this is the duelist/close combat master grand master... This in the fucking GK book.

Damn, bro. All your points hit. As a Norse Heathen, they were like 7 on my list when i was picking an army for so many reasons. The only one i question is the wolf mounts. It looks stupid af, yes, but the mobility has to be way better than bikes. Bikes are not usually all terrain and strikes that shit them down can't be fixed with adrenaline. Anything that would mortally wound a wolf would probably mortally wound a bike

I'm new to 40k plus modeling etc and I don't really like the space marines, but that kinda back story is something that would change my mind

They could make the wolves more cybernetic and larger, I have 3D printed Ligers (hybrid species) with Blood Ravens in full gear riding them and they look plenty menacing

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

Ooh damn

@Jethric

Ай бұрын

Yeah I think even most Space Wolves players would readily admit that the Fenrisian Wolves, TWC, Wolf Lord/Harald and Canis Wolfborn could all do with an update. I actually like the inclusion of the lupine species in the army but they're not the best looking of models. The Wolf Lord is a famously horrendous finecast too, to the extent where a lot of Wolves players don't bother and put him together from a Thunderwolf Cavalry set.

A lot of SW lore feels like it was written by an angsty tennager in a rebellious anti-authority phase.

What pisses me off the most about the spacewolves is mainly how they are treated vs how other chapters or legions are treated for example how The deathguard and especially Mortarion are labelled as hypocrites for hating pyskers and that they joined chaos (even though they were basically forced) but the spacewolves are rarely ever criticised for their rune priests literal pyskers by another name or the gates of Morkai which are a part of a spacewolve initiation ritual where they're basically yeeted into a section of the warp plus a billion other things like the wolfen and fenris clear warp tainted nature it just annoys me so much how god dame hypocritical the spacewolves are and yet the deathguard are the ones that get bashed for it

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

Laughs in drunken space Viking

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

🤓​@@brandonstapley9251

Fantastic video Exactly what i would wish the Space Wolves to be… Oh well, at least we can use such cool story/lore building as ideas for our custom chapters.

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

I refuse to buy space wolves models from GW the 3D printed models are better

Vikings were renowned for their fearch close in fighting, like my Black Templars, loose the majical Wolves and keep the wolves in metaphor treatments only .

You gotta give the Dark Angels and The Unforgiven a pass now

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

Spacewolves:😭🐶 Dark angels:🗿

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

If I have to hear one more thing about our stupid mishandled plotline my hand’s gonna be Fallen on someone’s head with a mallet I am so genuinely sick of how it’s been done, to the point where listening to my own army’s lore, I’ll stumble across a bit about ‘might have information regarding the Fall-‘ and I just tune out mentally.

@zep5229

Ай бұрын

@@toastle8005 and then you realize how the addition of the Lion does nothing to the Fallen issue except him interrupting interrogations and turning them into Risen/Inner Circle Companions like bruh.....there were more than 10 Risen in The Lion SOTF and 6 highlighted in Arks of Omen The Lion! Why no Hexagrammaton to represent the Risen advisors to the Lion...I mean really!

Do you feel the same way about Imperial Guard Rough Riders as you do about the Space Wolf Riders? Or does it make sense that the Guard, a force that uses quantity over quality and uses anything and everything they can make sense to ride horses into battle whereas hyper-advanced Space Marines doesn't?

Ragnar also killed that dark angel when he lost the duel to him. He shouldve been killed for that.

If the wolven curse was more like a curse akin to the blood angles black rage it would make then more intrersting. Ultimatly the only ones to blame for the current SW is GW itself as they were the one who have written them.

Unfortunately for the rewrite if you make magnus and leman have any common sense then the fight doesn't happen

Oh boy! The monthly space wolf rant!

Ah, what could have been. I definitely prefer this take on the Space Wolves.

In your defence, it is indeed grating to hear constantly "wolf this, wolf that", as someone pointed out, that bit really took off in 5th edition(was present in old ones to lesser degree). You completely forgot to mention 3 things - first(edit to add here, checked old 2e and 3e codex, 3e says the "they weren't present for the siege of terra" as is included in later ones, so ignore this point, my mistake). Second, battle for the fang was a wolves loss, since they lost a nearly completed "tempering" project which sought to stabilize/allow space wolf successor chapters(which magnus destroyed as main objective of said battle), and 3, how grimnar's axe morkai(being a reforged chaos weapon of all things) might finally start to corrupt the old wolf(he, unlike the time wolves wanted to save those the inquisition wished to purge after armageddon war pt1, sided with said inquisition to purge some of fenris' own inhabitants). While your suggestion does sound mostly sound, yes, you did indeed lose the plot. Still, a chapter or few using the suggestion might actually work. Lastly, tea is heresy unless it's the (now unfortunately long discontinued) raspberry-mangosteen flavor, or failing that, any decent fruit flavor instead (and I say that as a slav,who normally love their tea).

I'm going to agree fully with this video just going on its title alone 🤣🤣🤣 EDIT: watched the video in full and agree completely. The SWs DO get a hell of a lot of protection from GW. I'll be pretty disappointed if the supposed rumours about Russ' return turn out to be true 😪

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

You’re name says all I need to know heretic lol hope your doing well brother

@horuslupercal2385

Ай бұрын

@@brandonstapley9251 thanks man, all good here, hope you are well, too. I actually play White Scars more, so I'm more of a Jaghatai man here....... The Horus nickname only stuck with me as he is also a fellow baldie 🤣🤣🤣

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

@@horuslupercal2385 I’ll always be a furries player and I’m doing good too, FOR Lemon Russ forever

I have always seen imperial fists as more viking than the wolves because they value order and rituals. Also they call Dorns guards: Huscarls stemming from the old danish/Norwegian Huskarl meaning a jarls personal guards. Always had problems with the space wolves and that was made worse by my manager in GW who was the biggest space wolf fan in the world

Honestly, I've always hated how idiotic Leman Russ was in regards to Magnus if I were in his shoes and was told to execute my Brother without face to face in person verification I'd bring him in instead as a prisoner and accept the consequences and straight up tell the Emperor to his face "I won't be your executioner for this you want this job done I brought him in so you can do the job yourself."

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

I can agree but due to Vikings favouring honour and loyalty above all else it still makes sense

Oh man i cant wait to hear this Edit: its not "Lemon" Russ my friend, this is English

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

He’s an English teacher, but in this case I do have to agree, I think the proper pronunciation is confirmed to not be ‘Lemon’

*Inquisitor Obi-Wan Sherlock Clousseau* , thank you! Honestly my biggest issue is that Space Wolves are presented as Vikings In Space, but have almost nothing at all "Viking" about them. The Vikings were not "I will take my wolf-ship to wolf-attack the wolf-enemy and wolf-smack them with my wolf-axe" or any of that. The entire canine obsession is what makes them crap to me. There's recently been a big surge in Viking-related media (Vikings, The Last Kingdom etc) which makes the concept widely-appealing, if they were more Ragnar Lothbrok and less Fido Good Boy they'd work so much better. Raid the enemy. Obsess about treasure. Be superstitious, seeing omens everywhere.

@philipbowles5397

Ай бұрын

To be fair to GW they have brought up the superstition element a few times and it was a fairly big part of their HH novels.

@Daemonik

Ай бұрын

@@philipbowles5397 I'm re-reading HH at the moment and yeah. I agree with their "maleficarum!!" bit. The "feel" of them seems quite different there than in "current era", though I seem to remember quite enjoying the Ragnar trilogy back in the 90s (or thereabouts)

The hive mind my lord is commanding all forces to head towards Fenrirs.... my god is this a full scale invasion no sir they seem to be forming an orderly line to be beaten off by the wolves sir

I actually have a hot take of my own, the imperium should've collapsed into fledgling planets, corrupted empires and rouge trader fleets. I fail to elaborate on this :)

1) The Wolves' role as enforcers on other legions is long over by 40k. On the contrary they're there for the audience to identify with as cool rebels to some of the Imperium's unjust practices. It would be more trouble than it's worth to move against them as well as politically divisive especially against one of the first founding. 2) People always forget that Russ openly offered thru psychic message a chance for Magnus to surrender non-violently and throw himself on the mercy of the Emperor. It was never really revealed if this got thru, but Russ made the offer demonstrating he was wasn't just a rampaging bully. 3) Marines riding giant wolves is no worse than pseudo space-Mongols riding horses with explosive tipped lances. At least Marines wear power armour. If you're going to pick on everything ridiculous about 40k you're not going to get too far. It's also not fair just to single out the SWs. 40k has always been more about aesthetics than practicality. Every doorway would have to be a mile wide to accommodate all these giant armoured people for God's sake, not to mention everybody's peripheral vision being cut off by their outfits half the time.

Like all Primarchs and to a lesser effect all chapters represent an aspect of the Emperor. The Space Wolves represent the Emperor's plot armor. When corrupted they become Mary Sues.

It's a shame how flanderised stuff got in 5-6th edition for many factions, ironically the much later re-release of the Sisters (8th ed?) was done so well, giving them more character but not taking it too far. Sadly once you create a unit like Thunderwolf cavalry there's no going back, there is hope with a Primaris re-release, they have the chance to lore and model reset.

I think id actually like space wolves if they were written like you came up with!

Remember, all of these dumb things came about in 5E, when GW fired all of the original creators who didn't bend the knee to making the setting SOLELY about marketing the newest models. The new writers they brought in were clearly not equal to the task at hand.

I joined at the tail end of 9th edition literally 4 months before 10th dropped i picked up space wolves cause they looked cool as hell and looked unique i feel that GW has absolutely failed what could have been a cool legion and just keeps doubling down on that failure.

Maybe I just don't take the setting quite so seriously, but I love the wolf cavalry, and logan grimnar on his hilarious sleigh! I don't see any of it as any sillier than the entire ork army, they're sort of just the silliest end of the imperial factions. I love them so much more than any other imperial faction.

3:38 100% agree. I think guard should have bikers, but marines should only have jump infantry.

As a old-schooler, i genuinely think that they need to completely rein in the wolve part and got hard and fast into the nordic theme. They should go back to the Vikings aesthetic of the 90s Also, if you think its bad now with how GW gives Space Wolves a win now, just imagine how big of a win they will get whenever Russ returns. It'll probably be the biggest use of deus ex machina we've ever witnessed

I kind of want to like the Space Wolves but it's like an 8 year old came up with the ideas they use. 'All I heard was wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf' indeed

I like the direction with the alternative lore you propose. However, the mortally wounding and entombing in ice of Leman being asleep feels a bit too much like what happened to the Lion. Maybe an alternative for this part by getting lost in the warp and some bands even searching for him? Or him being stuck on a daemon world that symbomizes helheim the land of the dead? Otherwise great lore proposals and deliciously tragic with Leman and Magnus.

Not done with the video but there is one thing i’d change about your rewrite of the wolves. I’d make it so they are not amazing duelists. I’d make it so they are THE teamwork chapter. They’d have some sort of pack tactics instincts that allow them to take down foes that other chapters just couldn’t without needing something more. For example a 10 man space wolf squad of tactical marines could take down a foe that would take 20 or 30 Ultramarines to beat because of how they work together. Maybe not the best exact still. The best way to take them down would be to isolate them into smaller groups or individual members. The flip side to this would be some battle brothers developed a certain mutation of the Canius helix that lets them grow bigger, stronger, smarter, etc than the rest of their brothers. These are the ones that are the good duelists. The trade off though is that they tend to be lone wolves and because they are loners the rest of the chapter looks at them in a negative light. I think something like that would be cooler than what we have now.

9:49 - Who could they beat in a fight? Well after executing two legions in the pre heresy, spanking naughty Magnus, and consistently kicking ass in the lore for 10,000 years, I would say that if they were going to fight anyone they would fight their own way and they've got a shot at beating literally any other chapter. They have a unique blend of ferocious melee units, rune-based psychic buffs, long fang devastators for range support, and believe it or not, space-wolves have tanks and aircraft, like the other Space Marines. They have cunning. That is their simple answer. You talk about other chapters being able to fight dishonorably and beat them. Do you think dishonor would be good enough to beat them? Do you think shooting at them alone would be good enough to beat them? If that were true any xenos force would have been able to do it. I'll agree they're a first founding chapter, so they have plot armor, but you were way under selling their strength. There are plenty of references in the lore that show rather than tell them being strong. Njal Stormcaller is a top 5 most powerful librarian in current 40k, that if nothing else makes their chapter no joke. If he takes to the field in an engagement it's a massive advantage for the Rout. Ragnar Blackmane's drop pod assaults are the stuff of legend for a reason. I swear that man took anger lessons from a Black Templar. And if you're just going to say that he's strong only because we are told that he is strong, there's an entire omnibus series dedicated to showing his feats of valor. He earned that lol. There aren't any other space marines that cut off Gaz's head, just saying. I think the main point you might have missed is that the benefits of the other chapters maybe more obvious, and the main strength of the wolves is that they are not what they appear to be. Russ looked like a savage on the outside but had a keen and cunning mind and a inner heart of nobility, The exact opposite of the Lion who on the outside was this highly respectable noble knight, and on the inside was a savage. That is similar to the chapter, they come off like berserkers and savages, and if they know that's what you think of them they will use that bias to their advantage until it's too late for an enemy to correct your mistake. Buy yes, and a painter TWC .... Sigh. Do better GW please

I've been listening to Dark Souls lore videos while airbrushing my Space Wolves. I better take a break to focus on this one.

You are right that the biggest problem with Space Wolves is how they bend the lore around them to allow the big stupid hurr-durr Vikings to win all of the time. I think your idea of fixing the Wolves' lore has merit, but I don't agree with changing the past, so we'll just have to live with that. While the past can't change, the future can, and your desiination of breaking the wolves would go a long way to doing this. I propose a different route to get to that end point. Have the Inquisition come back to Fenris for a second pop at it and this time not only let them beat the Wolves, but exterminatus Fenris. Broad plot of this story is that an Inquisitor who fled form the debarcle of Inquisitions vs Wolves swears Vengence and spends cneturies plotting the downfall. He makes pacts across the Imperium with other Inquisitors and leaders of the Adepta Sororitas, and upon finding hearing of the Daemons on Fenris, is fianlly able to mobilise his allies to attack. Fenris is crushed and Dark-Age-Of-Technology weapons are used to melt the surface of the Ice-Planet into a deathworld of molten lava. As the Wolves face their apparent defeat, it is revealed that the Inquisitor only survived up until that point because of the machinations of Tzeench, and some of his allies are revealed to be traitors/thousand sons in disguise. In the ensuing battle the Space-Wolves are almost completely destroyed, but earn a formal pardon. Even so, Fenris has been effectively destroyed, and is renamed Ragnarok (after the Norse apocalypse). The remaining Wolves exile themselves into the galactic north and beyond where they take up broadly the exxistance you describe for them. Many Wolves lose heart in this time which they call the 'Fimbulvetr' (From Norse Mythology, 3 years of coninuous Winter which is supposed to lead into Raganrok) and become renegades and mercenaries. I think doing this strikes a good balance behind not erasing past mistakes, and signallign that they won't be repeated. The wolves get destroyed, showing that the lore will no-longer bend to allow their nonsense. Additionally, they are humbled by all of the groups they have vistimised most. That said, falvour changes to the Wolves I would make that may be seen as altering the past are 1)'There are no wolves on Fenris', instead of being an allusion to how Space-Wolves are werewolves, instead make it so that Fenrisian wolves were a proper species like salamanders (the in-unioverse animal, not the chapter), but are now extinct as Fenris ios destroyed. 2) The other chapters do look down on them for being percieved as 'stupid' lacking discipline, they make less sensible use of technology and often have very on the nose tactics of charging at the enemy head-long which leads to a lot of casualties. 3) But, the Space-Wolf grey-beards are as canny as anything and masters of survival, they can rough it on any world with improvised weapons if need be and still come out on top. Space Wolves are known for their hardiness above all-else and this is where they are better than other legions. In-spite of losing many battles they should have won, the Space-Wolves often pull victories out of situations where they should have all been killed. This earns them the respect of other chapters/legions. 4) Which chapter/legion is the best in combat mostly depends on the writer, who wins a fight between Flesh-Tearers and Wolves is up to the author, but what guides their decision should be considerations of style. The Tearers max-out savagery, but the Wolves are more cunning. Blood Angels are faster than wolves and have more finesse, but the wolves are just as strong, far more resiliant and show better stamina, White-Scars are the fastest legion and very hard to hit but also the flimsiest and struggle against absurdly fortified targets.

I would like some of the chapters to be a little more grey area than just Loyalist/Traitor. For instance we know the boys in blue are "The" loyalist chapter. I feel like the space wolves should be closer to the center of that spectrum.

Space Wolves aren't bad on their own they're just the ultimate litmus test for the state of the game / lore. They seemed pretty cool and not meme tier in 2nd edition but then at some point they just became the most obnoxious faction of all time, generally quite strong on the table top and always wearing full plate plot armor in the lore. This is due to the extreme focus on named characters, and the after effects of how Matt Ward utterly trashed the feel of 40k with his bombastic fluff (probably at the behest of GW itself). No longer do they feel like heavy metal space vikings, now they're just MCU Furries who could go toe to toe with Kaldor Draio.

The random guitar is just *sending me*

I agree mounts are redundant considering space marines are pretty mobile anyway. Not Eldar levels of agility but they can leap great bounds even without a jump pack.

I have been collecting Space Wolves since 2nd Edition 40K. Fittingly the Ulrik the Slayer mini is so old he is made from cast lead (from before the pewter switch over of the early nineties.) Much of the current lore about Space Wolves did not exist then. The current background for the Space Wolves is indeed cringe. Many of the current models are likewise. Specifically, I do not own the following models: Wulfen, Stormfang/Stormwolf, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Logan Grimnar on sled. The Stormwolf model just makes me think of Goofy from Disney. I have a difficult time reconciling how Primaris fit into the army. With the old lore, there was a progression from Blood Claw to Grey Hunter to Long Fang with exceptional individuals sometimes taking a tangent path into Wolf Scout or Wolf Guard. With Primaris this path was eliminated and the warriors assigned to packs based upon personality. To me this demonstrates a divergance. The Firstborn are sons of Fenris and the Primaris are sons of Terra. GW needs to find a meaningful way to bridge this lore gap. I do have a Space Wolf kill team. The warriors are all sole survivors from their respective packs. Lone Wolves. This is based upon lore from previous editions that is no longer represented in game. Each of these warriors has survivor's guilt. They seek a meaningful death but know that no one remains to chant their sagas when they are gone. In my canon, these warriors have been gathered (some after lengthy convalescence) into a group viable for small critical missions. For these warriors the mission is everything, survival is of secondary concern at best. No boisterous parties between battles for these men. Instead they share the sagas of their lost packmates knowing that it may be the last time the stories are shared before being lost to the ages. It is a shame what has become of the GW lore for the Space Wolves. I guess my head is stuck about 15 years in the past before much of this nonsensical plot armor.

Oh, please. Space Wolves don't even beat the Lamenters. And need we remind people of Skyrar.

It makes you wonder if the Thousand Sons never turned to chaos. What would Magnus have been able to do to help Imperium during the Seige of Terra at his power level?

I got another one for your list. Remember that time a Space Wolf came up to Magnus and had the balls to ORDER Magnus to go to a certain planet as if he had superiority over another legions PRIMARCH. Tho I do love Magnus telling him to take his helmet off because he wants to see the face of a man he’s going to kill (tho he didn’t kill him), and also stated that with his physic powers he could destroy the Space Wolves ship in orbit.

I think GW also hates space wolves as they pretty much gutted any reason to play them with those heirloom weapons absolute trash. Also if you going mention thousand sons and the space wolves you gotta add in it was traitor marines that blocked communication triggering the space wolves to go straight to invasion. Emperor's Gift is the Space Wolves you should aspire to remember, noble warriors honoring fellow imperial solders refusing to let the inquisition exterminate them.

How to fix space wolves 101: Step1: paint them in pre heresy colours Step2: ??? Step3: profit Also templars and their fans are about equally cringe if not more so they are literally the krieg of space marines.

Of course Space Wolves are from a bygone part of the setting - so are Space Marines as a concept. Space Vikings are no sillier than the wider variety of space knights, let alone such things as the Chapter which has a secret it dare not reveal because it was named after a poem about closet homosexuality. The name is so silly that the HH novels went so far as to rename the Space Wolves (and their bar for ridiculousless was low since they also added the lore that Leman Russ literally had dog DNA) - but then they never ditched the name Space Marine for all that it dates to an era when adding 'Space' to random words made them sound cooler (and don't actually act as marines in any sense). The wolves were silly when first released (though in a setting where everyone whacks one another with swords anything goes - we are in space fantasy, not sci-fi, after all), as were Wulfen and Santa Logan Grimnir, but those are all rather late additions to the army - long after the 3rd Ed. push for 'grimdark' began. Black Templars are if anything worse offenders than Space Wolves, and suffer from the same 'Mary Sue' nature that they always have to be the best and are utterly without flaw, and you actively praise them for all that they have little background to speak of beyond "their founder was repentant and got a bit overzealous so now they're all cosplaying the Third Crusade". At least the Space Wolves actually fail - you even mention that in the context of HH, and yet somehow immediately after complaining that being too perfect is a problem you complain that their failure is also a problem. In modern 40k they've been given a narrative rivalry with Ghazgkhull, and Ragnar managed to beat his army. They also won the First War for Armageddon with some help from the Grey Knights. The setting has never been serious, which is why we still have Orks and the only available Noise Marine model has a guitar. Noise Marines in general make just as little sense as Space Wolves and have worn attempts to reinvent them as something semi-serious very badly. GW has always played favourites - look at the nonsense around Blood Angels and their endlessly surviving things that would wipe out any other Chapter from Tyranids being eaten by daemons just before destroying them to the infinite red-armoured grunts the Legion could lose without detectably losing any real manpower in that awful HH novel Fear to Tread.

A good spin on Space Wolves, I've been wondering if they haven't had Wolves in the spotlight for a while because they may be reworking the way they're written, but we'll see what Black Library comes up with. Leman Russ should be on the return here if Ye Olden leaks are to be believed.

Lol, this guys read an AI generated synopsis on space wolves lore…show us on the doll where Russ hurt you.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

🤓

As a Tsons player, I approve this message:)

Been waiting weeks for this ever since it got mentioned in passing

Personally, I've enjoyed the Space Wolves thus far granted I've only read about them in 2 books one of which they are but a small part of. Those novels being "The Fall of Cadia" and The Dawn of Fire Novel "The Wolf Time" yeah they are idiotically stubborn and by god they have some absolutely insane battle plans like boarding the Will of Eternity to kill Abaddon so fighting on his turf with a massive army at his back along with Daemons.

I've always thought Space Wolves are a bit lame but if they're the army that you love then whatever!

Can someone please answer this question I have about Lion el Johnson. When I read the HH dark angel books I remember reading the reveal for the 'inner circles deepest secret'. Which was lion el Johnson was a traitor and that's why Luther fought him. So when Horus failed / was defeated they covered up this truth and sort to kill off the renegades to eradicate any information about their treachery. And the renegade dark angels (red cross on shoulders - shame we don't get more lore about these.) are in fact the true loyalists. Hence why cypher is on his was to terra to find redemption.

I'd lean more heavily into the hunters and trackers too. When they've picked up a 'scent' there's no shaking them as they systematically harry and harrass their target whittling them down to almost nothing.

Wolfs should be pirates and your way is the best one, but you should work with the current narrative to do so, not retcon whole swaths of lore with benefit of knowing how it turned out

And they always bow to the Lion

To be honest, on the few occasions I've read any Space Wolves novels from Black Library, I've found them to be aesthetically cool but boring to read about. Thanks for giving me a great rant video to build my Blood Angels Stormhawk to. 👍

I've never heard a more accurate statement - Yes, the Space Wolves would beat off their enemies.

Did the Space Wolves lose on Mymeara (Imperial Armour 11)? I can't recall, sold my copy, but I think they may have but I don't remember to what degree.

With invention of automatic weapons, tanks and trench warfare, calvary became obsolete after 1st world war as they just got gunned down. Calvary shouldn't exist in 40k. Them riding on wolves is derpy

Space wolves are cringe, but in fairness they wouldn't have defeated the 1000 sons without strong sisters of silence, custodes, and titan support.

Yes, I think your version of the lore is spot on.

Space Wolves are just built different 💪😎

Your lore is good, certainly better than cannon. The space wolves probably seemed cool in the 90s but now, I'm sure he regrets it. Too big a retcon to fix though

Never have I agreed so much with what is wrong with a faction - then hated the suggestion for a rewrite so much as when North does one of these. But that's the joy of being allowed a different opinion!

During the Burning of Prospero they had the Sisters of Silence and Custodians, including Constantin Valdor with them. Between the personal guard of the Emperor and being out numbered by the Space Wolves the Thousand Sons had no chance.

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

Even though they WERE the Thousand Sons, and in an even match without restrictions on their psychic powers, they would have been a horror to fight. The Custodians and blanks should either have been very minimal, or squads guarding Leman Russ alone.

@DoctorCataclysm

Ай бұрын

@@toastle8005 bro, you just said that Custodians, who fight daemons in the Warp, and the hard counter to Chaos would have minimal effect on an already depleted Legion. It wasn't the rout that Northy is making it out to be. The Wolves lost 23000 Legionnaires and about 3000 Sisters/Custodians.

Because the space wolves can't think laterally they are Moran's lol

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

…the irony of calling people “moran’s” because you think they’re dumb. 😅 Ah, well… it happens to the best of us

The Space Wolves wish they were the Storm wardens and the Emperor's Spears

Perhaps it'd be too meta, but what if the inquisition had implanted memories into the spacewolves to make them think they'd beat the greyknights? And perhaps any other nonsense that they've got away with. Imagine a special division of the inquisition 'looking after' the space wolves. Husbanding them as a potential rogue chapter killer. Removing memories of each such chapter kill.

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

Wouldn’t need to as the space wolves are meant to keep other legions in check from turning traitor

@Raygun9000

Ай бұрын

@@brandonstapley9251 indeed, but this would need inquisitional oversight. What I'm suggesting is that they're given this mission over and over again but have their memories replaced after each campaign.

@brandonstapley9251

Ай бұрын

@@Raygun9000 that would kind of defeat the purpose of making them effective against every other legion as one learns from experience so erasing their memories would effective take away that experience learned

@Raygun9000

Ай бұрын

@brandonstapley9251 if they're effective, they're effective. Being able to covertly control the head strong space wolves that disobeyed you in the past is likely more appealing than allowing them to gain further experience.

Scattered Legions would make a great Space Wolves novel ! ! !

The Space Wolves have some problems both in the lore and the fandom, especially the fandom, like those few stories you told a loud the guys, or guy, that was a sore winner/loser who mained Space Wolves. And if not him, they’re also the faction played mostly by Viking lovers or furries(the cringe kinds)

To be fair, no space marine chapter except for Raven Guard (and other "covert operations" chapters) make any sense at all. Being restricted to 1000 in strength, there is no way they could make even a minor impact in any form of large scale engagement. A thousand men, however elite, is not even enough to capture and hold a city, let alone a continent or a planet.

@DBWave94

Ай бұрын

Nothing about 40K makes any sense. It's just a total mish-mash of ideas cobbled together without forethought. That's why I create my own head canon. You pretty much have to.

Congratulations you made it worse. I didn't think that was possible

@Raygun9000

Ай бұрын

There were a few misses for me, like lemon being on ice. What was you least favourite change?

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

Nah

New official head cannon 😊

I have just started a space wolves army, (1st born) and i agree, space vikings sounds awesome, GW handling of space wolves lore sucks. Aka i wont be putting any wolf riders or wulfen marines into my army as they a just too rediculous. Why use wolves when astartes have access to motorised bikes for fast attack?

Well alltho spacewolves as a chapter are weak a single Space wolv however gives a grand advantage to the squad he assists with his hightend senses as we can see in i think it was Defenders for Ultramar. where spacewolves support other chapters with theyr senses as they dont need a radar to snoop out targets making them Very Powerfull against Tyranid invasions as they can smell them even if the tech fails. And i would want to say on a stretch thats what the Emporer made them for to be the Spacemarines well Dogs so to say as they are very impactfull at suporting other chapters. and it would make perfect sense to create a chapter just to Support the other chapters as it pretty much strenthens the other chapters by the whole strength of the spacewolfe chapter as one spacewolve in a squad of spacemarines is like a squad of spacewolves just because one is there.

@gaomon2887

Ай бұрын

You always gotta think of the strategic overhand when looking at things the Emperor created as he is a Saint in wartactics and intellect. And as we know ALL chapters are actually doing just what the emperor wants them too even the traitors are still acting in the emperors will.

I like the Space Wolves cuz i think of them as the Orks of space marines lol

Nah, for what i've seen and heard, that are a lot of these kind of flaws in the lore that make it inconsistent and, well, flawed. As long as you don't change a lot and try to rebuilt it for events/things to make sense, i would even like to this kind of "retcon" to become official. I would also love your "full take" on the death guard. Please do it, or are you so heartless, that you only know how to take hearts and carve your name on it?