Don’t worry. I’ll make a new Warhammer 40k. I’ll just copy everything from 40k because GW did the same.

@akamucrimsidae

Ай бұрын

BattleAxe 50 Grand

@greendalf123

Ай бұрын

@@akamucrimsidae in the dark grimness of the far from present, there is only conflict.

@Order66Scale

Ай бұрын

Trench crusade

@TheSamuraiMind

Ай бұрын

"Bane War" One way or another, everything dies. Choose how you live, choose how you fight, choose how you die.

@doodlesquatch277

Ай бұрын

He's not wrong.

Agreed completely. In pursuit of the fabled "wider audience" 40k is losing it's soul.

If i dont want grimdark and want it to be a hopeful wholesome sci fi setting, i would go watch star wars or star trek. Keep 40K as it is!

@edwardclay7551

Ай бұрын

Star trek for sure

@DeBia.

Ай бұрын

There is women in golden armor --> now the setting isnt hopelness😂

@doomguy9049

Ай бұрын

​@@DeBia. "Oh no there's no 9' tall women in golden armor, 40k isn't inclusive!!" 😭

@DeBia.

Ай бұрын

@@doomguy9049 never said that

@doomguy9049

Ай бұрын

@@DeBia. So?

In the grim darkness of the far future, everyone is equally worthless.

@jeremyboughtono2

Ай бұрын

Exactly the empire doesnt care about feelies.

@painlord2k

Ай бұрын

@@jeremyboughtono2 Feelings or Felinids?

nailed it, reading a modern 40k novel theres no threat. Oh hes the main character, I bet the ultramarines are jealous of his plot armour.

Moving the narrative forward was the death blow. Should have kept it at 2 minutes to midnight. With midnight being humanities extinction.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

A stagnant setting is stupid

@remusventanus5341

Ай бұрын

@@alfieingrouille1528 A stupid setting is stagnant

@daveeol1987

Ай бұрын

​@alfieingrouille1528 no it worked fine

@PumpkinHoard

Ай бұрын

@@alfieingrouille1528 It worked for decades and brought in an ungodly amount of money. If it's stupid and it works, it aint stupid.

@isiahalcindor6278

Ай бұрын

GUYS THE SETTING IS STILL STAGNANT You can have progress and 2 minutes to midnight it's just that GW doesn't want either

Compare these modern novels to Storm of Iron or Dark Disciple. Not even the same setting anymore

@hussarzwei6223

Ай бұрын

A book I recommend is Yarrick: The Pyres of Armageddon by David Annandale

@greendalf123

Ай бұрын

@@hussarzwei6223 I got the omnibus, haven’t began reading yet. Also I just started the Helbrecht novel and it’s excellent so far

We lost the soul of Warhammer 40k after the Wrath of Magnus where Magnus, after DESTROYING fenris and the entire system was bested by Logan Grimnar 1v1 and the space wolves went on like nothing ever happened. The idea of hopelessness is gone. The stakes don't matter. Everyone has to win. Hell even the Imperium is now trying to be "the good guy". I would love to rewrite a story starting at the end of the wrath of Magnus and work from there. I would turn the space wolves into what the 1k sons were, dying out due to mass mutations, I'd kill off the blood angels and create the demons of the emperor in a sense called the sanguinary host, and I'd have Terra fall... Characters need to die there needs to be new stakes involved.

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

The only way I’ll ever accept Sanguinius back is as a nightmarish warp monstrosity at the head of Legion of the Damned, wearing scorched Sanguinary armour, incurring into real space in ultra-violent raids and destruction. Everything that the Primarch was is gone. There is no face or eyes behind the death mask- just fire, and insanity and massacre. And even with Imperial Daemons coming back, and the armies of the furious sacrificed and dead of 10,000 years slowly becoming more and more present on battlefields, it’s still not enough. It seems utterly, completely hopeless. And yet, you pick up your bolter, and you try. Even after death.

@loganlough6510

Ай бұрын

@@toastle8005 that would be bad ass brother. I was thinking instead of Sanguinius, Dante takes on the mantle of the Sanginor becoming an avatar of the Sanguinius. The legion and all of the souls become one with the Sanginor and they march as a holy beacon screaming into the darkness tearing through Leviathan and headed directly for the eye of terror.

@Culexus101

Ай бұрын

With hindsight the shafting of the DA, BA, and SWs towards the end of 7th was all just part of the setup to roll out the Primaris Marines and have them take over. Primaris Marines as a whole felt like a stab at the heart of the old aesthetic of the Space Marines as futuristic knights clad in ancient armour fighting an eternal war in an age of superstition, madness, and hatred. It was an attempt to make the Marines into something more like roided up Stormtroopers from Star Wars who used advanced tech and scientific rationalism to battle the enemies of the Imperium, which maybe could've worked if they had been treated like the Grey Knights, Death Watch, or the Custodes, ie a separate faction who were basically a force of Super Marines that answered only to Guilliman.

@loganlough6510

Ай бұрын

@@Culexus101 I definitely agree. If it could have just been a range updated I would have been fine with the primarus minis or even a fabius bile creation and was made in response to said creations. But could have been similar to thunder warriors that burnt out faster than they could be made

@Culexus101

Ай бұрын

​@@loganlough6510 In the five or so years b4 the PMarines dropped "First Born" got a new Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Vanguard, and Sternguard box so it would've been way too early for another Marine refresh given how many other armies were (and some still are!) using models from the late 90s or the 00s. Putting those Marines on 30mm bases (I really think the 32mm is too big for normal Marines) was all they really needed. I'd rather we got a 100% plastic Legion of the Damned army for 8th ed over the PMarines...

Shift in tone started in 2017 with primaris.

@brycedery9596

Ай бұрын

That's when I stopped paying any attention to the lore as it was all worthless drivel after that. Waiting to be thrown into the dumpster the moment they could sell a different model. That's precisely what they did with female custodes.

when the hobby becomes the grim dark setting

I agree completely. However, I don't just think it's the people in the hobby who are trying to make it less grimdark. I think it's a marketing & business stance from higher up in that just like everything else, they want warhammer to be more disney to make more sales with a broader audience. They don't give a crap about any of us, just cash & the more, the better. Games workshop is horus luprecal he wants all the money & to watch the galaxy burn 🔥 unfortunately 😕

I read a theory online that Amazon was the one pushing for all these lore changes in hopes of crashing Game Workshop's stock value and buying the company for pennies.

@1kizhun

Ай бұрын

they're the same maggots who deal in company insider trading and get caught their just as bad as scalpers its funny aint those guys called bottom feeders on the financial market

Your not over doing it. Your right on point minus a detail or two. Yes 40k isn't grimdark anymore. Yes it is a cartoon show equal to cringe 00s anime. You do miss the mark with us lore fiends losing out due to gw not making our kind of lore. The original writers of this game and the background have told us repeatedly that this universe is created as much by us as by them, if not more so. So no, we should be fan creating material. We should be supporting channels making in universe lore and that aren't just re re re hashing the same 5 major battles over and over. Do enough if that and you'd be surprised how much fun your going to have, instead of just watching commentary on the 2nd war for Armageddon for 500th time.

@adamduffield7782

Ай бұрын

Yeah well fans tried, loads of short animations were being made by fans, astartes was 1 that was completed, but GW had them all taken down,

@chaosdruid1476

Ай бұрын

@@adamduffield7782 Your not wrong in theory. But you can still watch that movie on other channels. Stuff like that becomes a banner for fans to keep going. They can't stop us all. Make like an Ork and mob up and keep charging.

So the only thing I disagree with you on on this video is how you mentioned that the slow creepingness of watering down the grim darkness is not gaining enough traction online. I'm starting to see more people talk about it. Other than that, I agree and I've been saying this for years. Ever since 40K became normie-nized, it's starting to turn more into a Saturday morning cartoon and it doesn't feel as grim dark as it was before. I might have parts here and there but it doesn't feel like how it did. There are some franchises that I'm okay with being more inclusive and more hopeful in tone. Star Trek is one of these franchises I'm actually all for being progressive as long as the writing is good. I want my 40K to feel like a place I don't want to live in. I don't want it to be fair for the people that live in it. There shouldn't be any factions that I want to join in real life and no clear good guys. The only good should be from individuals doing their best from our modern moral standpoints despite what the universe throws at them. The only gender the Imperial Guard should recognize is Canon Fodder. Space Marines should only be male as a represent to me at least what it means to be a man. I'm not talking about being all badass and super strong and stuff. I'm actually talking about how men are the ones who are expected to deal with the hardest of societies burdens because of that physical strength an endurance and are expected to unalive doing it. Sisters of silence and sisters of battle should only be women because to me they represent despite not having the physical prowess of men, they have other ways of being just as bad ass an accomplishing just as much.

I remember scrolling thrue 1st edition rulebooks, and also 2nd edition, over and over again. Every image looked like a mix of HR Giger, Heavy Metal LP Covers and those Adult type comic books like "Heavy Metal" (Also fun how they call the painting thing for heavy metal, hmm). It was so bizzare and bleak, "Grim Dark", I loved it. This was late 80s early 90s. Well there where some comedic things sprinkled around also... Like Squats, Jokaero, Inquisitor "Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau" and Orcs overall, but still it was dark, and gritty. But to look at how things have changed since around the introduction of Primaris, and look at them side by side with the first realy grim black and white (mostly black) images of Space Marines, the Imperium and the Golden Throne from the first WH40K rulebook the "Rogue Trader" book, and John Blanches things, and Jes Goodwyns illustrations... wow, is it even the same universe? (Well kinda NO! but anyhow). Cheers.

I still have the old books. I have no interest in wasting my time and definably not my money on woke dei political agendas that have absolutely nothing to do with the theme of wh40k, starwars, mcu, Indiana jones, dr. who and the list goes on. the woke dei is such a small minority they do not have the numbers and defiantly not paying customers to fill the void left over once the fan/paying customers have vacated the IP. but the woke dei agenda never was about quality it is just about political activism, that no one actually supports in time or money except for black rock and eventually they will not abe able to afford the political agenda and the whole movement will collapse but the damage will have been done.

@Gunnberg85

Ай бұрын

"You will own nothing, and you will be happy. "

The forces of chaos already have their tendrils embedded deep within the heart of GW. It will go the way of all your favourite franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who and the like.

agree 1000%, I came in on cursed founding chapters: space marine armies cursed and on the fringes of the imperium to use their curses as weapons, peak space marines. Now we have a short story of a primaris marine infiltrating the black dragons with a kill switch from an inquisitor and the first born marines accept them without suspision after 1 campaign. A slap in the face if you ask me

I was so happy when my Blood Angels were on the brink of destruction. No cure for the black rage. The Lamenters chapter was nid chow. They were becoming blood crazed maniacs. The Blood Dragons were corrupted already. All their machines were failing. But they had to keep fighting. Couldnt! Wouldnt stop! Then primaris with all new tech and toys. Tech heresy as far as the eyes could see. Dont get me started on the plot "jackhammering" that was the joke, return of the primarch.

@toastle8005

Ай бұрын

😔

Pretty much agree with you on most points, North. I think Star Wars can get away with it because "Hope" is their central theme. Even if it's dire, you know that the good guys will always pull through in the end when they all come together because that was Lucas' core message. On a narrative level, if GW wanted to have a bit of an arc of sorts where we get some hope because the "good guys" start winning, they would then need to absolutely have nothing but straight decimation from Chaos in the next one because 40k's message is literally the opposite of SW. I understand needing to add in new factions and new Space Marines because the narrative has to move forward eventually, but they could have done it so much better - especially if Guilliman's return was meant to be the jumping-on point for new players. They could easily work in the rise before the fall with the return of Guilliman, the hinted return of more Loyalist Primarchs, the creation of the Primaris Space Marines, a tentative alliance with the Ynnari and Ulthwé to finally start giving the baddies a run for their money, and give us that "Oh, hell yeah, we're on it now" feeling like what we see right before The Horus Heresy. Guilliman getting revived was the PERFECT set-up for a move like this because you've got to have little moments of victory - even if it's pyrrhic - to make the defeats sting the way that they should. It would have had a ton of emotional impact when we get all that hopeful build-up with decently done foreshadowing sprinkled in and just have one catastrophic loss after another as a reminder that this is 40k and none of that hopeful stuff matters when you're fighting an army led by Daemon demi-gods who know your entire playbook and how to beat it because they were YOU once upon a time. Unlike the issues of female Custodes, this issue to me is less of a "People coming into the hobby to change it and the execs caving to them" and more of a top-down issue that's been a problem across all media for a while now. It's the epidemic of poorly written villains and unstoppable heroes that's been permeating every piece of story-driven media lately where you have to play it safe and the good guy always has to come out on top even when they shouldn't. As a person who writes for a living, I see this all the time. It's the "Oh, if the Space Marines are our most popular faction... then we need to be sure that ALL THEY DO IS WIN, so they look awesome and we can sell more stuff" attitude that kills creative storytelling, and you see it way more now than you ever have before. What they miss is that people don't like Gary Stu/Mary Sue's for heroes and rocks for villains. I want a villain that is actually scary, that is actually smart and intimidating. It's why I love Thrawn in Star Wars as much as I do. Smart villains, capable villains, give such good stakes to a situation. The Daemon Primarchs are terrifying because they're so capable. They're pretty smart, they're capable leaders, and combined with some of them almost literally having the cursed divine hand of a Chaos God actively backing them, they could be HORRIFYING. That's what's so disappointing when they get written like they were pulled straight out of Scooby-Doo. I want my heroes to LOSE. I want to watch an entire Company of Primaris Marines get absolutely eradicated by Chaos Space Marines - they're older, less refined, still somehow better, and it puts into perspective how dangerous the situation still is. I want to watch the alliances fall apart because thousands of years of warranted mistrust can't be overcome overnight. I want to watch Guilliman, alone at the top and despite his best most organized efforts, fail miserably. I want that sheer anxiety of not knowing if my new favorite characters are going to live or die. It's like whoever is at the top of the story department at GW seems to think that nobody wants to see the Space Marines lose when that is what they need to do the most. The writers aren't wanting to get risky, and the execs likely aren't letting the ones that actually want to go that route follow through with it. It's disappointing, and only hurting a brand whose entire theming was built around a setting where everyone is a loser - even the winners.

Darth bane trilogy slapped

@daniellewis5533

Ай бұрын

It was seriously grimdark. You cheered for the Jedi, knowing Bane had to crush them.

I totally understand what you are saying in this video. I am a Full Blooded Canadian First Nation and I love the dark oppressive nature of the history in the lore of 40k. Keep it dark, keep it cheeky...make me scared and make laugh

To quote a famous person "Everything woke turns to shit"

No such thing as overhating the current 40k lore and environment. It's all 100% justified, GW is lost and has been lost for years

95-2005 is the golden era for me. Primaris lore and vanilla nature was when it felt like the lore started drifting away from the gothic horror, dark comedy, or grimdark that it used to be. Remember when we had books like Storm of Iron? Or 90s era books on terrain building? Those were good times. Fantasy and 40K were my favorite IPs for decades (since 95 and 98 respectively). I don’t like that I’ve fallen out of love with those IPs.

The problem is, nobody can write like that anymore. There's been so many generations of "hey, you participated, here's a trophy. Good boy *pats head" they now lack the perspective of loss and that feeling of god if I had only done ____. Without that perspective, writing anything of value is absurdly difficult as you have nothing to draw that emotion from, no reference point or datum that says, 'hey.. that fragging hurts mate! I wonder how Mortarion must have felt?'

5:18 It's why, to me, Black Templars are the best baseline space marines. They represent 40k as a whole I don't want every space marine chapter being the same or as extreme as them, but all space marines should have that edge. It's why I think space marines lost something when they stopped worshipping the emperor like a god. The heart of the tragedy of the Imprium as a whole is that they became the nightmare of a powerful man's dream, and everything he strived for got flipped around and destroyed while he has to suffer holding it all together without really being able to do anything but watch. 14:49 The Lion's return. He should be a tormented vessel of anger and Wrath right now. From his perspective five minutes ago he was slaughtering his own people, his own sons, and then the people who raised him and loved him. He murdered them all without a second glance because he deemed them traitors (rightly) but to then be in a trance for ten thousand years and to just wake up and be mellow and forgiving just isnt right as a character arc this soon. This is the Lion he uses people like tools and when he doubts them or their reliability he casts them aside. Hes not a creature of politics, but he is reculisive, manipulative and secretive. He does not forgive, forget or give ground. He is the Lion because he is a beast. I dont mind him becoming the "hero" he is in son of the forrest , but that happens way to quickly in his return.

@CanadianPale

Ай бұрын

_The heart of the tragedy of the Imprium as a whole is that they became the nightmare of a powerful man's dream, and everything he strived for got flipped around and destroyed while he has to suffer holding it all together without really being able to do anything but watch._ I think it's more a case of the Emperor foreseeing that the current state of the Imperium represented the best chance for Mankind's survival and planning accordingly. Trapped and tormented by His own willing interment in the Golden Throne as He is, He's not just watching (unless you want to argue that the Custodian Guard either mistranslate His commands to the High Lords of Terra, or that the High Lords outright ignore the Custodians).

Dude .... The Night Lords comment is 100% spot on. Im a total goodie lover and I needed to start a 30k nightlords force.

This is the same problem that has been a thing in other settings, like this very example that people can't see Darth Vader as a monstrous nightmare of pure evil and its only through the last efford of his own son Luke that he finally stops being Evil. Now take that even further with the Empire as whole (Darth Sidious - aka Emperor Palpatine's Empire), take a good look at what Disney is doing and then realise the lack of its true potential as The Galactic Empire when a Sith is in charge. That very same "Grim" or "Evil" is lacking because of the known factor that those who "writes" the Lore don't even "Live" the Lore as a whole either. When there is no sense of care "Love" for the setting, its true values die out and become nothing more than hollow and empty beyond anything else.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

Wtf are you yapping about 💀💀💀?

"Safe Edge" is the death if any property it blights

What's happening to the Hobby is just sad. We had something special, it was unique, dark and so filled with raw emotion. I used to show off my love for 40K with such pride. Now it's just another sci-fi setting. This must be how the Thunder Warriors felt......

The struggle for 40K is lost for now, because GW itself is against the core fans. They want the fabled new audience and they will slowly inch towards it. The core fans will keep playing, thus ensuring long run steady profits and that will keep GW in the game. The only real solution is for their to be a 40K alternative that the core fans can migrate to and threaten GW with. Without that GW will keep riding roughshod over the feelings of the core real fans of 40K.

I’m glad to know your a lore lover. The lore is the reason I started 40K. And also why I play deathguard. If you take away grimdark. Deathguard will suck.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

Mortarion is my favourite primarch

@Averagejoepainting

Ай бұрын

@@alfieingrouille1528 typhus is my favorite. I feel like he is the true leader of the deathguard. Or should I say the chaos deathguard.

@alfieingrouille1528

Ай бұрын

Ok​@@Averagejoepainting

@Averagejoepainting

Ай бұрын

@@alfieingrouille1528 lol it’s just my opinion. Morty is cool though not gonna lie

Funny you should mention Star Wars and 40k, I'm sure a few years back I found a model someone put up on thingiverse of Darth Vader as an inquisitor in power armour. I had big plans for it, red resin and LEDs figured heavily. One day...

Tried to do an only war session with strangers. I expected high mortality and had 5 characters prepared for session one. Within 10 minutes a player was trying to interact with my character with a cartoonish ostrich mount. Dude went full uwu. I haven't played only war ever since.

@brassviking486

Ай бұрын

I'm sorry your session went like that. You'd think the GM would prep everyone for a game like that. You wouldn't run a horror setting with joke characters.

@horseface31

Ай бұрын

I thought he did, I was told high mortality and grimdark. If I wanted cute and cuddly I would have played something else. It's weird that I'm Still bitter about it but I took a whole afternoon off for that.

I just got into Warhammer 2 years ago through audio books. They kept getting recommended to me because of my previous listens. I started with the first several books of the Horus Heresy now I’m half way thru the Siege of Terra books. They are so freaking good. Then I saw that animated trailer for the Horus Heresy and that’s all I wanted. I just wanted a Horus Heresy animated series.

The non existent "MODERN AUDIENCE" that loves and embraces "THE MESSAGE".

In the Grim darkness of the future there are only Participation Trophies

I consider myself very lucky. I just began reading the books. I fully intend to just stick to the older books. A KZreadr called Oculus Imperia really set the stage for me in the setting, and managed to capture the grim dark perfectly.

Night lords trilogy absolutely dragged me into night lords, and I was an ork player before, never underestimate the power off a good fluff. Thank you Aaron

@Jarlegand

Ай бұрын

Made a grammatical mistake there or two, but I was drink, so cheers!

I'll take this a step further to say that 40k has an IP that could rival the MCU, if they kept it grimdark. They won't. It's too bad they don't understand their own IP. It's for grimdark lovers.

May the GrimDark God Emperor's light continue to shine on eBay ! ! ! Always something "new" to be had.

This is why the primaris were such a bad sales driven idea.

@1AshesToAshes1

Ай бұрын

Most people I know like them. And most of them have been in the hobby for at least 15 years.

I was told one time “i know women who dont get into the hobby because they dont feel represented, and Sisters of Battle is just a token faction, thats why we need female Space Marines.” Ok, first of, never has any of the things I liked represented me. Never was I a teenage Turtle in NYC. Requiring to be represented in order to find enjoyment is narcissistic Secondly, if SoB is token, then there is no winning. Female Space Marines would be the very definition of tokenism. Third, do you think an 8 foot tall, 400 lbs , acid spitting fascist and zealous woman with the jawline of Andre the Giant represent them? Is this the very next thing to change? Make Space Marines more socially acceptable by 21st century sensibilities? Whats gonna happen when they learn what a Daemonculaba is? Bro, this setting is NOT for the feint if heart, and catering to them is just gonna make the people who like it, hate it.

I noticed about 2 years ago I just wasn't enjoying the black library books like I used to. Really started slowing down buying. And reading the ones I did get had a hard time finishing when I used to devour them.

They've forgotten the setting's foundational introduction text in their quest to remove troublesome grimdark and make the space marines the good guys: To be human is to be a part of the cruelest and bloodiest regime possible.

I shall take my grimdark as ive always done. Gaunt ghost, cain, eisenhorn level of mixing becuase that is all I need..for grimderp is equally bad as when the setting is too bright. Mankind being heroes and making one of sadly many last stands that most of the time might not matter win or loss as the Imperium still crawls while dying yet is still also attempting to strangle their foe is what they SHOULD be. We can have some hope of light still shimmer through the abyss becuase if we go the other extreme. We get matt ward greyknights vs sisters...we get how imperial navy loads their guns like its 18th century with real humans than servitors. We get commissars executing 3 regiments of guard cuz they didnt forsee the ELDAR ambush becuase "its grimdark" when in just...derp. I want scenes of guard realising they have to sell their lives charging a sentry nest, I want the commissar to motivate and lead the squad to perhaps most certaintly their death BUT its for the Imperium and the God-Emperor. I dont want that same scene just be the commissar blam'ing an entire squad of guardsmen and solo charge cuz the group didnt look clean as the dress code commands cuz "oooo mah grimdark" there should be LIGHT mixed with grimdark yet it should not take over or be too much.

@CanadianPale

Ай бұрын

Underrated comment. 40K (at least after it actually started taking itself seriously) has always had a core of hopefulness within it. The setting is grim and dark because Mankind _must_ do horrible things to survive in a universe where every hand, claw, tentacle or other, unidentified appendage is against them and a moment's laxity or tolerance could result in the deaths of billions of innocents. It's an almost hopeless cause, but it's the "almost" that's crucial. There's always a slim glimmer of hope, a slight chance of victory; a Sabbat Worlds Crusade, a new STC discovered, something to spur on the survivors and give meaning to the sacrifices of the fallen, because without that, it's just pointless nihilism. Fuck grimderp. Embrace balance.

@funbro99

Ай бұрын

@@CanadianPale Indeed. Hope shines through even the darkest of abyss.

GW meet But Light ! ! !

@ravenRedwake

Ай бұрын

HEINER-SHIIIIIITE!

I think the meme monkeys and low tier loretubers are at least partially responsible for the Flanderising of 40k and the overall slow suffering of the community. I want to return to grimdark in my 40k not some marvel style diversity hire bullshit.

@CanadianPale

Ай бұрын

_I think the meme monkeys and low tier loretubers are at least partially responsible for the Flanderising of 40k and the overall slow suffering of the community._ Too true. If I hear one more jibe about "corpse starch"...

It sucks…I came in at the end of 9th edition but have been reading since 2015. I actually think Ultramarines are pretty cool and I play them on the tabletop, but reading Nightbringer compared to Avenging Son is like a different universe.

I believe GW is trying to make the game more appealing for a buyout by a conglomerate such as Disney… The beginning of the change started when they started adding relative values to the scale… A Leman Russ Battle Cannon is only 120mm? A Guardsman can stick his whole damn head down the barrel! Did his head shrink to 4.7” across? It also weighs 60tonnes… Hmm, I wonder what kind of inspiration they had for this? Could it be they wanted to copy the stats of the Challenger 2? 0.75” calibre Boltguns? 0.998” (25mm) calibre Heavy Bolters? Heavy Bolters fire fist sized projectiles… Battlefleet Gothic originally had ships which took decades to build, the battleships had CITIES inside them where some of the inhabitants never saw life outside of the ship… Now they are measured in metres… Those palaces which doubled as bridges for instance, etc…

I had one of the best ideas I’ve ever had for a story last night. Setting, background, and even a premise. I wrote a whole prophetic poem in my head in the shower. I had to STOP mid shower to step out and write it down before I forgot it. I think I know what I’m going to do with the time I would have spent painting 40k stuff and getting games.

@northernexile

Ай бұрын

I've legit done this xD

@Backstabmacro

Ай бұрын

@@northernexile shower thoughts power my existence. Every now and again they’re useful, too!

40k used to be metal. It’s becoming Disney.

I would be lying if I said the grimdark setting didn't attract me to the game so I'd be sad to see it go. For me that was when they did those kids books. I remember seeing them and wondering how much they'd have to cut out to make those work. I don't think inclusivity is the enemy of the setting we're marking it as. The imperium is an equal opportunities employer or however that works with serfdom. If you're in the setting all the implications and horrors that can beset you are fair game.

if being more inclusive gets them more money then that is what they will do, vote with your wallets, its that simple - trouble is i think people already ARE and the vote says they don't mind.

As a greybeard, in the 90s 40k wasnt as focused on Chaos, it was more balanced in terms of factional combat.

It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of fact. If the fundamental principles of the universe are undermined it cease to be what it fundamentally is. If you can’t respect or appreciate the lore for what it is and want to change it you’re not a fan but a tourist. Because objectively if you can’t accept what 40k is and want to change it then you’re more bothered about what you want it to become, of which won’t be 40k.

But Warhammer has always been bright and hopeful and happy and full of unicorns and rainbows. I know because I work for GW and we just changed all the Codices to reflect that. It says it RIGHT THERE in the lore! And the lore has aLwAys BeEn tHeRe!

Fantastic points to bring up and highlight something that is happening, yet nobody is talking about.

Just wait guys untill they'll release new Emperor's Children Codex. With GW's current direction and agenda it will be quite a shitshow.

@ColonelHoganStalag13

Ай бұрын

Anyone else notice the total lack of Slaanesh being front and center? They're not even being mentioned in passing anymore. Almost like GW knows they can't have that and play like they're some family friendly game system.

The books published in the black library are like a fart. No substance.

@ColonelHoganStalag13

Ай бұрын

I've never paid for one. I've only ever received them second hand. Anything I can do to deprive GW of my money has been my course of action since 2006. They've been a miserable company even longer but that's when I began my boycott.

One interesting thing is that you used to be able to get the old books pretty cheap on second hand internet stores. Now a lot of the old books are pretty pricy. I wonder if there is a correlation.

It would be funny to see if the kids book Warhammer Adventures is more Grimdark than the current stuff. I actually think it might be. The first book Attack of the Necron has a kid get shot by a necron and die. I was like...that was pretty dark for a kids book. But the kid was a bully/ hive ganger so I guess he got what was coming to him (in the 41st millenium) lol.

Space Marine 2?

@BiomechanicalBrick

Ай бұрын

the tyranids look very wimpy

I don't want hope in 40k. I want hope IRL.

I am in the lore myself I own just about every single 40 K novel. I read the Horus heresy series in order from the beginning when the first book was printed. The ghosts, Eisen Horn, Ravenor, and Bequin novels by Abnett. The night Lord trilogy, the iron Warriors books that tie in with Uriel Ventress. Changing the lore that was established for many many years stating what is and what isn’t is tearing me apart. A hobbyist can play to me in a tournament or a gaming club or was one of my friends and his mind he wanted female custody. I’ll be totally OK with that. A person as a Freedom to make their army look the way they want even if it’s outside the lore and I can respect that. But I have no respect for bringing politics into entertainment. DEI needs to die. It is ruining entertainment and hobbies.

You should check out oculus imperia's "arks of omen :- Angron" its quite grim

I like the idea of a noble chaos space marine. The thought of a singular battle with a loyal new space marine, and the csm remembering training with those that his legion sacrificed on istvaan 3. Perhaps he may let the astartes win due to the remorse he now feels, but never explain why. Leaving doubt in the loyalist heart. An interesting take. Like you it has lost the grimdark, why is why I find it difficult to read and relate to the new stuff.

I don't think it's inclusivety as the main villain here. I think it's corporate overgrowth, and soulless profit searching. Inclusive is a red herring. Unending expansion to "new markets" for the almighty daughter is the core.

if it weren,t for the is it DEI stuff (hope i spelled it right) i would day this is just a phase ,i think you have a point ,the warhammer covers even look like ,toned down ,or someone i used to know said the star wars eu books look like they have "estrogen fueled covers " his words not mine but i kinda get what he means the avenging son book cover reminds me of just that

The problem with the Grim Dark forever is after a while it becomes boring and worthless. It is the same problem, in the 90s, with the X-Men. It was "Mutant Massacre" every other month. The normal month was "Extinction level". If the franchise MUST endure, it needs cycles. You have the Dark Age of Technology (Hope) followed by the Age of Stryfe (Grim Dark) Then you have The Raise of the Emperor (Hope) followed by Horus heresy (Grim dark). You have "The Scouring" then the Loyal Primarch fade away. You have the Age of Apostasy and then the Restoration of the Imperial Cult. Now we have this Tyranids invasion + Chaos invasion and the Return of Guilliman and The Lion. It is like Marvel worked for 50 years before being bought by Disney "Managers". You needs creative people invested in the francise and in the specific characters.

Be funny to see an amazon dramatisation of Fulgrim.

Grim dark is what brought me to the hobby in the first place even before the model side of it lore videos and how there was no good guys really soo much diffrent then most media if it just becomes like everything else then what's the point in it

40k isn't Disney and it needs to stop pretending that it is.

Lmao I had this entire feeling when I listened to Lazarus: Enmity's Edge - disappointment & buyer's remorse

My head cannon villain, Vindictus, realizes that that the Chaos "gods" are Charitons and rebels against them.

I have been a fan since 88 and now I have gone completely over to OPR and get all my minis from Etsy

Ignore the grim dark behind the curtains!

Gonna sound weird but the Halo is kinda experiencing the opposite with grim dark elements always trying to creep in. I’m a big fan of both series and I’m kinda excited for Halo Flashpoint. Hopefully Mantic games gives GW some competition and loosens their monopoly

As a huge fan of the lore, though i have never played the tabletop game, i agree with you 100% 40k is GrimDark! Changing 40k to make people more comfortable is a bad idea. I think Warhammer is going to destroy itself. The same way Star Wars and Star Trek did..

GW was one of the highest ranking companies during the pandemic. Makes sense, everyone was locked in at home with nothing to do, you could order online and a lot of people did. So that attracted investors. And those companies give a SHIT if something consists and flourishes, they just want as much revenue as fast as possible, sell their shares with profit and go on to the next victim. So what GW tries to do is, making their main product more suitable for a brooder mass of consumers to keep their shareholders happy. The high level managers at GW are kept at bay by either being afraid that their carrier gets ruind by a mighty corporation or are corrupted with insane bonuses. That's how it works. And that's whats going to destroy GW.

Any book recommendations for non-heresy grimdark 40k stories?

The means to recover it lies in giving chaos a serious win, I have a headcanon 14th black crusade in which the chapter masters of all first founding chapters are killed off by known chaos characters. Abaddon kills Dante. Lucius-Calgar. Decimus-Logan Grimnar. Typhus-Azrael. Ahriman-Kosarro Khan. And so on with Kharn, Honsou, Huron, Marduk and Fabius all killing off someone really important. It's one route but it's the shock to the system the setting needs.

Call them out en mass onntheir social media accounts let them know they are defiling the setting and that we hate it

@ColonelHoganStalag13

Ай бұрын

They just ban you. Withhold your money. If we all did that they would be forced to change course. GW only understands money. They do not understand reason.

@sidewinder3694

Ай бұрын

@@ColonelHoganStalag13 I agree that voting with your wallet is the most important

In-universe Grimdark can't really exist without some form of in-universe intolerance. Just keep it in-universe only, and it's fine.

Cut out GW long ago, by sticking to 4th edition. Still think it was complete rule set while sticking to true grim dark. And the best primarch was Conrad.

Waiting for the day one of the missing primarchs is a They/Them/xer/xem or female. A female primarch would be nice not gonna lie cause if they sculpt it as nice as Morty or fulgrims resin model.

In all seriousness you basically said what I’m thinking. I got into the hobby in Spring 2020. I got in because of the grim darkness, the strange things, etc. I did not get in because of the new things talked about here. I will say that part of me does like some new things added. Primarchs and other powerful figures returning, humanity maybe pushing back instead of at best holding ground. BUT that is NOT 40K and that is NOT why I joined the hobby. I know people will be upset at me for saying this but Arch was right when he said modern 40K feels more like the Great Crusade era of the setting than what it originally was. I’d rather go back to how it was before this stuff happened (and if these things need to happen then find a better way to fit it in the the grim darkness that is 40K, but i don’t think anyone is that good of a writer).

@caspianbchalphy

Ай бұрын

It just sucks. When I got in I was told about what 40K was about. Humanity slowly dying out but still fighting against the infinite and inevitable void. It’s both inspiring and instills hopelessness. I also thought that every faction was doomed was well and could never achieve their “goals” (except the orks). The Tyranids would be starved before they could consume the galaxy since they use up so much biomass trying to get biomass. The Necrons would inevitable kill each other and/or succumb to some virus. All chaos forces would even just turn on each other and wouldn’t be able to destroy the Imperium or anyone else. The Tau were so small they’d eventually get crushed. The Eldar factions would eventually succumb to Slannesh and could never regain their glory, The Imperium has a host of things that would eventually cause it to fall. No one could succeed and I loved it (again it’s tragic but inspiring the persistence the characters have to keep fighting). Maybe there is a chance/timeline where each faction gets what they want but it’s such a long shot it’s basically impossible.

Yall are finally waking up!🎉🎉🎉

I love when I can make the live stream

As a kid going to football matches at Goodison Park all I ever heard was complaining and moaning. 😂 Probably why I preferred 40k.

The battle for the soul of Warhammer 40k has already been lost, the people fighting to save it just haven't accepted it yet

@TopazTiger2000

Ай бұрын

The battle is already lost, allowing the franchise to have been infiltrated. Those who see it are leaving, and those who are staying willl just watch this hobby be morphed until they too can’t take it. Games over.

@helman41

Ай бұрын

if you think the battle's been lost, you've understood nothing of what 40k is about

@TopazTiger2000

Ай бұрын

@@helman41 I’ve only been in this hobby for maybe 7-8 years. 8th was a blast because it was wacky rules before this whole meta thing started picking up. So I’m not a veteran by any means, just someone who’s an observer of things. How do you face off against a company that’s backed by ESG money, who’s higher ups are greedy a-holes that want big number to go up, and an entire entourage of w0ke authors that have already made novels of slowly introduced propaganda? You don’t. Unless you plan on buying out the company and sustaining it, none of us, even through a boycott can win against that force. And if the company falls under, so does everything else. Because then it’ll be a divide and conquer situation where everyone just sticks in their own little groups with their own ideas of how the lore/rules work. There’s no unity in that. There’s no cohesiveness, no real feeling that maybe there are others one could connect with over a *shared* hobby with *shared* lore backed by a company that actually cares about its product and its customers. It’s not the same, and that’s when it really does turn into “men playing with toy soldiers.”

@Paul_Inman

Ай бұрын

@@TopazTiger2000 You cannot face off against the corporate culture that drives GW. They own 40k, there is nothing anyone can do to change the course of 40k. Fighting to do so is a battle lost from the start

19:56 right here is where I'll shove one more opinion I thought of a 40k story where it's not zombies its a group of ravenous death guard who consume the brains of astartes gaining knowledge of secret plans

@csabahofecker6650

Ай бұрын

As far as i remember that is something space marines can do something similar by standard, although im not sure about the specifics. Perhaps this particular group has found a way to enhance that ability.

@blindjustice5695

Ай бұрын

@csabahofecker6650 I mean instead of mindless hungry for brains zombies it was rational warmongers with a taste for you Grey matter

Many People seem to feel that the moustache twirling villains and gratuitous violence is all that Grimdark is.

@brassviking486

Ай бұрын

It's the low hanging fruit of grimdark. Just put some violence and graphic descriptions in as they don't have space, the inclination, or skill for tone setting and character development.

Couldn’t agree more with this rant. This comment is for the algorithm.

The true grimdark was seeing 40k die/go noblebright

22:10 You swapped Perturabo with Mortarion 👀

@Daemonik

Ай бұрын

Yes that confused the _life_ outta me until I realised he was just saying the wrong name! 😄

I'm really struggling to get through avenging son. It's just too bland. Novels like Steve parker's deathwatch from the early/mid 00's kept you on the edge of your seat and was properly dark

Look its me!

I'd love too hear your opinion on lords of excess I really enjoyed the book as far as putting lore out for the Emperos children. But I can see the wokeness a bit like the MC wanting to hug his brother which I thought was a wholesome bit but he doesn't because he's the warlord and can't lower himself to that level. Or the fact that the demon in the MC allows for the she him they pronouns but I didn't care for that either because I bought terminators with boobs and just said they were possed by daemonettes before reading the book.