"Toxic" has lost all of its power. It simply means "people who don't agree with me." In any avenue of thought or conversation.

@DarkKnightCuron

2 ай бұрын

100%

@jonpru82

2 ай бұрын

When everyone is toxic; nobody is

@alfieingrouille1528

2 ай бұрын

Agreed

@SweetbabyincmtL

2 ай бұрын

This , it says a lot about people using it as an arguments , type of progressif guy who will sign paper to take his wife religion while lusting about their ex asian gf on their youtube channel 😂😂

@alfieingrouille1528

2 ай бұрын

​Wtf are you yapping abou?,​@@SweetbabyincmtL

The "You will not be missed" statement is the most annoying thing in the world. The creator of Austin, Texas' biggest Warhammer Discord server just absolutely LOVES to repost it over and over and beat people over the head with it. Absolutely insufferable.

@johnguile1966

2 ай бұрын

You wont be missed.

Coming from the fanbase of Star Wars and League of Legends...I don't think whoever is calling 40k fans toxic knows the meaning of the word 😂

@Jarlballin123

2 ай бұрын

I play world of tanks, that community requires steel skin 🤣

Its funny how our fanbase was never considered "toxic" until all the politically motivated tourists got involved during the 2016 US elections

I've met some right toxic twats, but my version of toxic is seeing a store owner kick kids playing a kill team game out the shop coz he wanted his regular mates to have the table. Along with blokes who go full hardcore mode to thrash noobs, or just outright refuse to play with one's wanting to learn. I hated that shop, glad it's now shut down

The whole Trench Crusade problem came from the fact that the fan Discord for the game was hosted by individuals from 28MAG, an online magazine that vocally supports the female Astartes argument and shares explicit Space Marine porn, whose members insisted they'd be "queering up" Trench Crusade despite just being friends of the game's developers and not actually being behind its development - former 40K fans wanted a new game where identity politics was eschewed like with Helldivers, only to find that the very people who had corrupted 40K were intent on twisting TC to their political messaging, too. And so I'm not picking sides, I still won't forget the Bolt Action horror story about the guy who was far too enthusiastic to play the NatSocs - anyone who's that eager to hunt down imaginary Jewish people to kill is a person I want absolutely nothing to do with. We just want to enjoy grimdark tabletop games without having to deal with Twitter weirdo tourists or the creeps who take Alex Jones and Andrew Tate seriously, we're here for the setting and the game to escape reality for a while, not for all the real world BS we already have to deal with every other day that drives us crazy.

@Aperson66779

2 ай бұрын

This, and the people behind trench crusade actively came out and supported this 28MAG group when asked about the whole ordeal too.

@shaneriggs6678

2 ай бұрын

​@@Aperson66779that what killed any interest i had in trench crusade, i imagine that they just basically just killed their own game and lost most of the people who were interested in supporting their game with their own statements

Most 40k fans are not toxic, yes there are extreme right and extreme left they are a minority. The majority of fans just love aspects of the hobby, that could be the lore, painting models or playing the game. GW hate the Fans that are not sheep (dumb and easily led) and do not follow blindly.

No. The people who would havevyou think that are unpleasable malcontents who need, yes NEED, everything to be remade or destroyed to spare their feelings.

I am conservative. I’m not a bigot sexist or racist. My safe hobby space has been shrinking for years. It makes me sad. I want to quit.

Even as someone who identifies as "far right" (I have no left leaning beliefs and am fairly religious) I'm so sick of politics man. I just want to play with my toy soldiers.

@jensablefur155

2 ай бұрын

From a boring centrist it's the same wherever you are. I'm totally with you. People are exhausted talking about politics. So many of us just wanna leave the labels at the door and want to experience our nerd interests in the same way that we did when younger. With enthusiasm and excitement.

@vicbadger8902

2 ай бұрын

Same over here on the left. It's jagoffs that want to turn everything into a political football that ruin everything. Or claim to be apolitical but are obvious shills for an agenda. We see what you're doing and we're not fooled. Also MBAs wrecking games in the name of profits. Make good games and you'll make your money. Those people can get bent, I want to paint monstermen and push em around a table with my friends.

@MechbossBoogie

2 ай бұрын

From a slightly left of center liberal: I agree. There is nothing entertaining about real life politics. Games of toy soldiers are entertainment. The two should not meet.

@dildoswaggins2907

2 ай бұрын

Politics is cancer. Left and right. Use both sides of your brain

Online yes. In person. Situational. All fan bases online are pretty terrible. People coop 40K to make it a part of other things like dei, or gamer gate or attacking other games.

I have found that those that claim the toxicity of others are they themselves the most toxic (i.e. take care of the beam in your own eye instead of worrying about the splinter in another's eye).

I feel both blessed and cursed that I can collect my 40k miniatures in relative peace as I live in a rural area where 40k or tabletop games are near impossible to actually play. I just love the lore and models too much to deviate from my growing pile of Chaos stuff.

Toxic fanbase? Of course we do, men, having fun?!! Its like Chernobyl all over again...

Most of my fantasy armies has female minis, elves/wood elves are 50/50, Northern Alliance is roughly 60/40 male to female amd my Undead and Trident Realms have female monsters. I don't have a problem with female representation in the hobby, that aside I'm totally against the custodes recon, it just doesn't make sense and is clearly pandering to a certain group of people.

@greywanderer5935

2 ай бұрын

And no I don't think the hobby fanbase is toxic.

Been collecting fantasy and 40k since 95 and 98 respectively. I used to battle a lot; in the last decade I’ve just continued adding to my armies and enjoying the fluff of good books and lore; because I loved the Tolkien style fantasy and gothic horror of 40K. I stated falling out of love when they nuked the old world. Recently my family and I have created a fantasy setting suitable for our simplified rule set for d&d type play, skirmish, and large scale battles. My vampire counts army slid nicely to n to the new setting. I started falling out of love with 40k with the intro of Cawl and the Primaris. That’s when stuff started feeling real corporate. Still not sure where I want to take the scifi side of things. My family isn’t interested in that aspect; so it’s just my own universe. I want to figure out a way to incorporate my IW and IG armies.

@Daemonik

2 ай бұрын

I agree about the "corporate feel" creeping in. I picked up 9th after many years away from the hobby, and that, along with a number of things since, has cemented that opinion. Wasn't able to describe it though, so thank you for putting it into an easy expression with "corporate feel".

@jamesmacken9501

2 ай бұрын

The corporate feeling around GW and how the lore changed with gathering storm is what led a lot of people to go to Horus Heresy and abandon 40k

So listening to your talk I went in wanting to hear you out as my opinion was different to yours, it still is but I genuinely understand your opinion and respect it, but where there is a good majority of the hobby that is positive and supportive but it is very hard to cultivate those sorts of fans as the smaller but more active fan base of competitive players who usually are toxic to other forms of play (don't worry I am happy to say this as I am currently weaning myself off cardgames which is in a similar state) at this time I have come to the realisation that all fandoms are inherently toxic but it's the chance that has to be made to find new people with similar but different perspectives that you can enjoy even outside of the singular hobby (Sorry I know you like grammar but dyslexia is a pain, hope you understand my point of view too and good luck with that new side game)

The problem is that most community managers are teal haired pronouners that are now gatekeeping any politically different voices. That's what is happening with Trench Crusade. Now, it's going to happen with 40k. Don't believe me? Just look at who the majority shareholders are and realize that the fight is already lost and the degeneration of another thing that we love is well underway.

@TopazTiger2000

2 ай бұрын

We can always ignore them. I don’t do their tournaments, I don’t buy their models anymore. They wanna be delusional, so can I and keep the lore that’s correct and pick and choose

@MechbossBoogie

2 ай бұрын

The lesson here is to stop supporting publicly owned businesses.

LIKES FOR THE LIKE GOD; COMMENTS FOR THE COMMENT THRONE! (seriously, one of the best rants yet, thanks)

why has my whole feed been filled up with upcoming episodes??

Cannot wait to hear more about the setting you are working on north sounds super badass

3rd ed bolt action is coming this year. and konflikt 47 is after. warlord wants 40k players, same with the apex board game guys. when a store manager dosnt meet targets, they get fired. what happens to the ceo when the company misses targets and sales ?

@John_on_the_mountain

2 ай бұрын

Problem is Bolt Action is almost as expensive as 40K. Was looking at Konflikt 47 models to use as proxies for 40K, and the Firefly Jump Infantry is $55 for 10 models. I might as well just buy a tactical SM squad for that same price

@hellcat64

2 ай бұрын

@@John_on_the_mountain i agree with that on costs. but they will be making models in plastic going forward, they haven't announced which yet. and even not, they don't disown 3d printing.

@greywanderer5935

2 ай бұрын

BA is no where near as expensive as 40k, £69 for a starter army compared to what GW charge. Maybe triple that?

@hellcat64

2 ай бұрын

The k47 side can be for what u get. But it was a small company. The starter boxes are worth it. And pure bolt action is a lot cheaper. Especially i you use wargame alantic or italeri packed boxes.

I don't agree with the 'attracts broken people' line. Or with the need to qualify toxic elements being in 'nerdom'. No every random nerdy or not has bad elements and broken people, Look at football. An element of their fans like to go out every weekend and kick rival fans heads in on the train back from Leeds or wherever. Think that's worse that some neck beard having a strop lol.

Stereotypes are wild. A few days ago I've commented on how I got into Warhammer and how I initially felt about the prices then and now as someone earning his own money. I've also talked about some other stuff like Primaris change of customizability of poses, wargear and ornaments compared to old kits. I've been called out as a basement-dweller with nothing to do but play around with "intimidating" complex plastic kits... It's as if I didn't say that from a working adult's perspective... Honestly the response was bizarre. On one hand I'm the bad, toxic stereotype, on the other I should just shut up and consume because not everyone has the time to spend on assembling miniatures... Then why get into Warhammer in the first place!? If you can't find the time for that you won't paint or play with them either.

this was an interesting watch. but I think its important to remember the context of what had just happened before Gdubs released that statement, dude showed up in full "not see" attire at a tournament in spain, it was gaining international attention and a lot of people were demanding they make a statement about it. its not like that press release came out of nowhere on a random Tuesday afternoon. we've got crazys on both sides of the political divide in our hobby but I think we can all draw the line at that nonsense.

@Daemonik

2 ай бұрын

This is honestly the first I heard about that, uh, costumed tournament attendee. I always thought the statement was in relation to America's ongoing "spirited social discussions" and that GW were publicly picking a side in that fight.

@Backstabmacro

2 ай бұрын

@@Daemonikno, it was definitely in response to the Reichy lad in Spain. As I recall, he *could not* be removed from that event due to some legal clause in Spain? So people just refused to play him and the community was very mad. GW made that statement in response to the fiasco.

@Daemonik

2 ай бұрын

@@Backstabmacro Yeah I looked it up and saw some of the details, I wasn't disputing - just saying I've spent the last few years thinking it was in response to something completely different. I guess I wasn't really that active in what was going on outside my small group at the time.

@Backstabmacro

2 ай бұрын

@@Daemonik nothing wrong with that. I sometimes wish I was less plugged in to the goings-on of the world. Makes it hard to not be black-pilled and see darkness and idiocy everywhere.

@northernexile

2 ай бұрын

I completely agree. Although they did do the statement responding to what that idiot wore to the event (in part) and other things going on in the world at the time (I think we know what those were) I still think GW could have just said 'guys, don't do what this guy did, that's not us' rather than just smearing the entire fanbase with a telling off. That made it look like all of us are that guy and that we needed that message to be said to us, which I disagree was and is the case.

All well and good except in the most recent statement on their discord Trench Crusade exempted discussion about LGBT/gender issue as according to them these don't fall under the their understanding of "politics" or the fact that the previous discord dedicated to discussing the game was run by a magazine that let's just say "leans slightly" to the left apparently. You might consider prudent to invite over Arch in order to discuss to whole kerfuffle.

I've gone and found the post they made and re-read it. I feel like the only real woke thing in it that people would've gotten mad at is the part about "continuing to diversify the characters we portray". Ignore that part, and it's a perfectly palatable nothing statement. It's basically just some stuff about hobbies bringing people together and participants needing respect, how they don't condone any kind of hate or abuse, and how the setting isn't supposed to reflect the creators' view on how the world should be or anything. I don't see any problem with that part of it aside from it being pandering. If I'm gonna show up somewhere to talk 40k, I wanna talk 40k. It shouldn't be controversial to be anti-bigot. Is there something else I'm missing here?

I don’t think we have a toxic fan base, but I do think we have a lot of toxic fans

this is a good time for self reflection. There were a bunch of us that got caught up in your discord purge by being guilty by association.

The perception of how your hobby is will change by the experience of those who will share those experiences, and how they are dealt with by anyone in a position to address it. For instance, I am in a lot of nerdy hobbies (comics, D&D, Lego, etc.). From my experiences, some are if not intrinsically then certainly de facto, full of more bad actors than others. For example, the potential for crappy behaviour from JOs in the comic book sphere is more rampant than in, say, RPG terrain crafting. The biggest difference I've seen in action is how those who can enforce better behaviour actually do so. I've removed myself from several comic groups because bad behaviour is ignored at best, or encouraged at worst. I don't let much get to me, but I find the constant tolerance of bad behaviour off putting, so I leave. RPG crafting groups, however, tend to be much more positive and inclusive, and don't tolerate a lot of crap, bullying, etc. And, here's the key, my experience forms my opinion. When I join a new comic group, I am more wary than I would be with a new crafting group. And it comes down to basically the good gate keepers, or lack thereof. If 40K players are, for the most part, doing the good gatekeeping, then bravo. Keep that up. And keep pointing it out. Make it a point of discussion, and defend it. Eventually you will sway that opinion (and no you can't convince everyone, so don't try). I don't actually play, so I don't have experience with the community so much.

Toxic fans is an oxymoron because a fan wouldnt do to an IP what these people do . They bring in current politics thats not either satire or parody and then force than on the rest of the playerbase even if it ruins or retconns well established lawed or damages the IP . Because to toxic fans getting out the "message" is the only thing that matters . And GW is just a long list of IP's slowly being destroyed by these people.

I am constantly labeled as toxic because I insist on people not bringing current day politics and stuff into the hobby. I don't mind nor care what your views are, I'll happily play you, just keep the shit that has nothing to do with the hobby out of it. So I just gave up, they can have their own shit and ruin everything. I went away and now I'm printing my own things, playing my own games with my own friends. Fuck GW. I love WH40K models, but I refuse to support Games Workshop. Their practices make them horrible in my eyes.

Hey North, I love the little ideas you threw out for your tabletop setting! I think you should work on it, maybe get likeminded friends in on it to help you with ideas. I think you’re the kind of underground guy that is veterans can relate to. You also have good will with your small community, which could be a stepping stone into your miniatures game. I thought of starting my own (with blackjack and hookers) but I’m a nobody and would have far more work and good will to build up to get anywhere. Hope you continue world building your setting, maybe come up with some starter factions then try a go fund me for the game. If it looked good I’d back you.

The only toxic 40k fans I’ve met are the old ‘friends’ that got me into it. All because I liked and chose the Wolves as my legion. I’m sure yall can imagine how that went 😂

@dildoswaggins2907

2 ай бұрын

Space wolves are taking some big wins lately. Be proud 💪

To reiterate, the only toxic players I’ve seen or heard of are both the super tryhards that ruin the casual scenes with their ITC’s and making each edition more and more plain, and then there’s the blight of the wokies/tourists who don’t care about this game other than “it’s not inclusive” and somehow GW listens to them.

@Duppyman695

2 ай бұрын

Yeah the ultra hardcore competitive sports players who are win at all costs with cheese lists, that put me to sleep with statistics and tier lists and the new wave tourists that are here to bring 'The Message' and have only picked up 40k because it is one of the last bastions that *was* woke free.

@TopazTiger2000

2 ай бұрын

@@Duppyman695 hold strong, pray they get bored…or just have a very strong group. They’re gonna make a mess out of this amazing hobby and we need to be ready to rebuild

@brassviking486

2 ай бұрын

GW seem to listen because they hear that if the game was inclusive they'd buy into it.

@aw0422

2 ай бұрын

@@brassviking486it’s because blackrock gives them cheap debt in exchange for preaching “the message”

I would like to confirm that I am NOT a basement dwelling weirdo. My basement is filled with the result of 35 years of collecting Warhammer 40k models so there is no room for me to live down there.

Gatekeeping isn't as fun when it happens to you, huh?

As someone who is an outsider to the warhammer 40k fandom with the only experiance being rouge trader as a fan of owlcat games ive never really had a negative encounter with a 40k fan though their are the annoying fans that pop up every so often on other videos sometimes with nothing to do with warhammer talking about how much better warhammer 40k is or how much more powerful they are though I guess its in every fandom even some im in though they seem a bit more prevelant than others ive noticed though to be fair they are far better than the destiny fans

I will be playing Trench Crusade and OPR but not any GW related games or buy any retail products.

@Razyrazer

2 ай бұрын

Trench crusade is woke to the gills they ban people based on vibes for petes sake good luck to you😂

Hi Mate, I enjoyed your video, great work. I uploaded a video in a similar vein a few days ago which lost me over 30 subscribers lol. It just shows how emotionally invested in this topic people truly are.

@northernexile

2 ай бұрын

Oh I’ve done many of those haha don’t take it to heart mate you make great content :)

@titanwargaming

2 ай бұрын

@@northernexile thanks so much mate, so do you.

Funny how 40K going through what mtg went through around the same time. But there wasn’t any gate keeping or holding anyone company to fan to a standard. Keep pushing and create and show that there is alternatives.

I always browsed the local GW shop at my local mall in southern Californian it my parents could never afford it. Now that I make an actual salary and can afford It I find myself Buying 3d printed models due to the drop off of old world and and really repetitive designs from GW

I just got through my first few games of opr this weekend past, what a great substitute for 40k, gw can get in the sea!

I've been with 40k since 2nd, 5th-10th. GW is the toxic one in the relationship.

Thank you for this video you rock!!!

I don’t think we have toxic fan base but like other groups that have a passion for tv, books, movies, anime etc. do we have a few bad apples in the barrel yeah what community doesn’t. and it’s even more easy to jump to that conclusion due to internet being more availed than in early 2000. but gdubs has gone to the greed monster changing things without proper lore explanation just to grab as much money yeah again what business these days hasn’t gone woke or try to lure a percentage that had no idea of warhammer, the hobby game etc. and flip everything we know upside down to please a low percentage that doesn’t care and not gonna spend money anyway.

I'm a huge promoter of playing the older editions. Like if you like 9th edition crusade play 9th edition crusade GW is done with it and you can play a balanced game.

There are toxic people in the fanbase yes but is the community as a whole toxic? No it’s not. I’ve seen many more fan bases that are far more toxic than Warhammer as a whole And yeah I’ll say maybe there are some sub groups in the hobby that are toxic and fight with other toxic and non toxic sub groups but as a whole no. I could break down the different groups and sub groups of the hobby and say positive and negative parts about them but there’s no reason to do that here (I can share more if someone is interested though).

I dont beleive these reports. Why would a table top game that exists in a grim dark universe simply kick out people for liking a previously established and existing megolith? I have a feeling the encounters were not simply 'i enjoy 40k, i bet ill like this too'.

Nailed it dude.

Man, GW really has us cucked. I'll save your video to watch in the future in case I need to hear it again, when my wallet is already out.

Sounds like 3d printer goes brrrr

Make slaanesh the god of excess again. Gluttony, sloth, pride, envy

Its so odd to be callee toxic whej the Sororitas, the sisteres of silence, the salamanders and the Grey Knights are my favoritre lore and story aspects. Sure the last is not all that diverse but Sistere of battle were my first favorite along with kreig. Its just a labl3 GW is using to try to excuse their own bad behavior and lazy writing. I really enjoy your videos, and i think we probably agree on a lot of things, and if we dont agree on something im alwsys happy to respectfully disagreee with someone who has intelegent salient points to make! Great video sir. Keep up the great work!

Ive met a few people who are definitely unpleasant in the hobby, but to claim a single IP as toxic is pure stupidity. I refuse to support Trench Crusade despite being a promising game because the creators supported a terrible practice (banning people on "vibes") I'm creating my own IP because of nonsense like this.

Damn Internet, making everything awful for everyone.

nah, MLP Gen 5, when it got to IDW. they pretty much kicked out a lot of hardcore fans. It was sucky to be a gen 4 mlpfim fan and see myself kicked out for woke politics.

@storytimewiththecrimsondm1318

2 ай бұрын

what can i do? create a system neutral campaign setting where people can take the rules they want and play a cool narrative

"Where do we go?" SW LEGION!

There's so much to address in this video that it's hard to know where to start. The "you will not be missed" message did not appear out of thin air. It was in direct response to an event that happened in Spain. Long story short, a player entered himself under the name "Austrian Painter" while wearing N*zi paraphernalia. Due to Spain's laws regarding political speech, the TOs couldn't remove him and plenty of people conceded their games to avoid playing him. This got international attention, GW couldn't afford not to say something about this. I think that the reason people lose sight of the satire inherent to 40k is because GW has increasingly marketed it's games towards people with less and less media literacy. The biggest shift that I'm aware of was from 2nd to 3rd but the shift from 1st to 2nd was almost as drastic. The Imperium is the most brutal totalitarian regime imaginable, but because the stories are always presented by the Imperium, this gives the impression that the Imperium are the "good guys". If you're still thinking in twrms of good guys and bad guys when it comes to 40k, you're not mature enough to enjoy 40k. I find North's stance on gatekeeping particularly ironic, almost perverse, because it seems as if he advocates for the thing that he hates happening to 40k: fans of another IP invading "his" space. Trench Crusade have made it abundantly clear that they don't want the 40k "refugees" who take the Imperium too seriously. They're gatekeeping their space. Why advocate for it in one instance and against it in another? The biggest issue is twofold: What is the community? What is the hobby? The community is not a monolith. It's a collection of people who bond over their shared appreciation of GW products. Some play friendly games every so often, others play religiously every week. Elements are absolutely toxic, and it comes down to what these groups are willing to tolerate. How often does North rightly call out people with consistently poor hygiene, especially when using the phrase "smelling like a used nappy"? Opinions are much the same; they can stink just as bad. Better for groups to say that some behaviours, like misogyny, racism, etc, are unacceptable. The hobby is not the company. It's not the IP and it's not the fans. It's the art. That art is produced in service of the company, whose only concern is to generate profit by any means. The interplay between corporate interests and artistic expression is interesting and it does require it's own discussion. In any case, it would behoove us to remember that GW doesn't hate us. It doesn't like us either. It's a business. It makes decisions based on what makes it the most money. If GW think that raising prices constantly will do that, they'll do that. So far, fans haven't proved them wrong.

@corperk

2 ай бұрын

The Imperium are the Good Guys, because Guilliman is the Main character of the Setting and he is the Good Guy. Before him, the High Lords of Terra were always bad guys, no matter if the PoV character was a space marine, inquisitor, guardsmen or whatever. For all the lies about media literacy, 40k aesthethics were always dark fantasy, not satire. There was no Tony Blair, Obama nor Cameron stand-ins.

I'm generally just going to boycott, at least fight for it and if nothing works I have no regret for trying.

I hate the idea of the least reasonable and most politically motivated people deciding what groups need to be policed to suit there needs. They are often tourists and don’t actually care about the hobby, they care about having control and dominating people. Things usually aren’t going well in their world and they want to impose control where they can and they do so under the guise of kindness and decency… but take perverse pleasure in ensuring others suffer or are exiled.

I don’t find the fan base toxic, at least not in person. But I definitely do find it shockingly homogenous. I’m not saying it’s even inherently a bad thing, certain groups of people broadly speaking are attracted to certain things. For some reason everytime I walk into a Warhammer store/event it’s almost always exclusively white dudes. Most of whom are over 30 and over 200lbs(as am I). I’ve been in the hobby for over 20 years and while the popularity has exploded I’ve never once seen a female playing the game who didn’t also have a male partner who played it. Again, water finds its own level. I’m not mad about it, but it’s wild how little cross over appeal it has to anyone but white guys.

40K players are so toxic… MTG players: Hold my beer.

As a transsexual whose family fell on hard times, I started out very left-wing because I understood what it was like for people to fall through the gaps in society. But I've witnessed within myself just how dark things can get on that side. I've overcome my own darkness, and I strive to understand all worldviews and try to build something new. I'm not afraid to engage with the far right, and I've often earned the respect of people who would otherwise despise me. All it takes is showing a little humanity, and trying to understand things from another's perspective. Many of our conflicts are born of false dichotomies that _can_ be resolved with enough effort and know-how. It can get very complicated, of course, but that's why I've dedicated much of my life to scholarly pursuits, especially economics. I won't go into detail, but if you'd like a new perspective to unify otherwise-opposed ideologies, consider looking into Georgism. It may sound weird bringing up an oddly-specific tax policy for all these social issues, but I'm confident that it can solve tons of problems in a systemic fashion. A true _Coincidentia Oppositorum_ - unity of opposites.

@dildoswaggins2907

2 ай бұрын

People on the ‘far right ‘ will still accept your views and respect human beings in general. Cept for a few judgemental psychos. The left unfortunately, will consume their own the moment you start to have a different opinion

Nah. It wasn't simply being a 40k fan. These red pilled weirdos are the biggest victims.

I agree woth you, that Austrian painter guy did nothing wrong. :3

As much as we laugh about hobby nightmares and the like, I think that "Nightmare-worthy" players are literally 1 in 100 or maybe 1 in 50 at a push. I bet this figure is far higher in yugioh and Magic, and several multiples higher in any given videogame with an online element. As far as toxicity in nerd hobbies goes, 40K is small fry and almost any other nerd hobby based around a 1 v 1 game on a tabletop or online is a "hold my beer" in terms of being far worse. Hell, I've seen far worse snobbishness and behaviour in the board game community than I have in 40K. As someone with a metalhead ex metal and rock music is horrific when you delve into communities, at lot of those guys are still using the F-word (the one that's actually bad) as a homosexual slur in a casual way to describe music they don't think is heavy enough. Edit: and my husband plays Age of Empires 2 a lot which you would think is a super wholesome community and even that has a lot of smurfs and arsehole players trolling every 1 in 10 games. I think toxicity in nerd culture as a whole is a very valid discussion because there really are some angry angry people here, and let me tell you firsthand there's a very good reason why us women into this stuff often gravitate towards "normies". but as far as 40K goes we're a relatively chill area.

@MechbossBoogie

2 ай бұрын

I think I've seen one nightmare player in Warhammer, but at the same store the nightmare players pushed out all of the normies in Magic. In their last year, aside from a handful of normal people, it was only nightmare players left. The store owners wouldn't give those people the boot when they acted up, so everyone else went someplace else and the money dried up, because none of those players were putting any money in the til. I sold off my magic collection and switched over to pokemon. It was a lot more fun.

Yes , if you dislike anything you are toxic , didn’t you know ?

Games workshop wants to go down with us

@northernexile

2 ай бұрын

I may have read this as something else and go excited nevermind.

@JackieItaleri

2 ай бұрын

@@northernexile i think i written this incorrectly what I meant to say is that games workshop wants to bring us down with them not them going down with us

They arent toxic they're just annoying as hell. All they do is compare every genre of sci-fi to their own. Theyre kinda like batman and goku fans. Theres also alot of conservatives in the 40k fanbase. It however is a very nice community, I just wish they'd shut up about the universe. But i actually came to this video to dissagree with them being toxic. If you wanna meet toxic? You got hazbin hotel, gravity falls, my little pony. Thats toxic. 40k just has toxic people in it.

Its wargame making time

Is the fanbase toxic? No. Are there toxic elements in the fanbase? Of course there are. Are the ones who are regularly pointed to as being toxic actually toxic? Usually no. Are accusations of toxicity usually rooted in actual toxicity themselves? I would say yes, they often are.

Not even close to being toxic fans.

Is he questioning us?!?!?! Get him!!!!!

No, the problem with the trench crusade people is their politics. When they come out and say that LGBQ-E-I-E-O identity politics are _not_ politics, but everything else is, well, they made their message clear. It's not a game for me. It's worse than GW's "You will not be missed' manifesto. We need our own game free of blue-haird reddit mods and Tumblr posters.

The 40k fans aren't toxic, but the tourists are most certainly toxic.

@SethLooks

2 ай бұрын

Like The Quartering who when he jumped on the band wagon couldn’t even pronounce Adeptus Custodes why trying to sound lake an expert on the topic?

@TheKarnophage

2 ай бұрын

That idiot is a grifting MTG player. He is a tourist. ​@@SethLooks

We must always remember who started the labeling. It wasnt the 40k players who decided blacks women gays etc were not welcome. They were welcome to join the hobby. But than the wokies started demanding changes, that 40k players rightfully pointed out make no sense. Than the wokies started labeling 40k players as various -ists and -isms. And it has gone to the point where anything the wokies like, gays, black women etc result in a visceral immune reaction from 40k players. Because it is 99,9% sure its pushed as a political agenda. And the women, gays, and black who were in 40k before this started are safe, because the players around them know they are there for the love of the setting. Anyone trying to come in now.. is immediatly suspicious.

I've been in the hobby since 83 and I've noticed there is a growing toxic element within the community. Its probaby been in the community a long time but stayed pretty quiet and was most likely a small number of people but in recent years that aspect has become louder and I suspect a much larger group.

“GW sacrificed us on the alter of inclusivity” ; exactly! Way to tank your brand guys.

I find it funny he wants fans to not be seen as toxic yet calls fans lost boys. Ya know, the little boys from Peter Pan who refused to grow up

"if you don't like being called topic, don't be toxic."

I'd rather 100 neck beards than 1 woke guy

@greywanderer5935

2 ай бұрын

Thing is the neck beards usually are the wokies 🤣

@Ng-zg4dq

2 ай бұрын

@@greywanderer5935 then they are g4y

I think there is an element that is toxic in the community, but it is the vocal minority. Us arguing about no girls allowed is not helping and this is not the first time it’s happened when people got outraged about a black ultramarine. And now they complaining that you can be a black or Asian ultramarine in the new game coming out . And we all remember people throwing their toys out the pram for the primaris we all remember what they said you can’t do that we’re protecting the story which is now perfectly accepted by everybody. The problem is the hobby is now mainstream and that comes with a new set of weirdos.

The entire fanbase is not toxic, but toxic elements exist, and they do a lot of noise. It got to a point that the company had to say something about it. And since Warhammer has so many fans, it is only logical that we have a bigger quantity of bad actors than other wargames. Also, we cannot forget that the people that went to trench crusade were the same people that were doing a fuss about the femstodes, so we can assume that a bigger percentage of bad actors went there as well. And guess what? They didn't liket it...

No, the original WH40K fans are NOT toxic. The "new fans" just can't handle the fact that the whole setting is a nightmarish dystopia on an intergalactic scale. Everyone is NOT welcome in Warhammer 40K. The REAL stance of the fandom is "Not Suitable for all Players". Just like some movies aren't meant for all audiences (viewer discretion advised), neither are all hobbies. Cosmic Horror just isn't for everyone. That doesn't make it wrong or "toxic".

They released the 'you will not be missed' statement in response (at least in part) because some fascist idiot turned up to a 40k tournament in a Nazi uniform didn't they? I mean honestly, I know you are trying to defend folks in the hobby who, like you are perhaps a bit right leaning but not all the way gone to the point where you are unabashedly glorifying genocidal monsters but surely you can see why GW would want to distance themselves from that portion of the fanbase. 40k was always supposed to be a PARODY of those ways of thinking but gatekeeping like so much of the fanbase does makes sure that 40k remains a safe and secure space for people with genuinely toxic views on the rights of other people to spout their hateful crap without pushback. You are right in saying it's not the whole hobby. My gaming group is super queer friendly but love the lore and game for what it is. But I have had to carve out that space in opposition to some real assholes who I have no interest in engaging with because of the sheer hostility thrown at me. If I didn't love the setting as much as I did it would have been way easier to just stick to one of the other games systems I play with a fanbase WAAAY less hostile to me and my existence....

@tommys_hobbies

2 ай бұрын

Not quite. "You will not be missed" was released to coincide with the "mostly peaceful" race riots going on in America and the UK. The twat cosplaying as Shitler at a tournament inspired the "Imperium is fueled by hate, Warhammer is not" statement.

@northernexile

2 ай бұрын

They did indeed! But I think they could have easily just released a statement that said 'don't do what this guy did' rather than smearing the entire fanbase.

@catherynwilliams6340

2 ай бұрын

@@northernexile Yea absolutely fair, that would probably have been the better way to handle it rather than tar the whole community with the same brush but they probably felt they had to come down hard on it to make it clear that kind of thing just isn't acceptable. It's such a shame cause those kind of situations really do put people off the hobby. I have tried to tempt folks I play DnD with into 40k in the past (I know once they were into it they would enjoy it) but hearing stories of things like that happening makes it so much harder to convince people to get involved and excited...

@colinpenfold9890

2 ай бұрын

That Austrian painter guy showed up at an event in Spain of all places and discorse mini ran with the story even got an expert on far right to talk about the symbolism. She exploited it for her own gain and GW saw the video.

This is going to be hard for some of you to hear but I just turned 50 and have been in and out of the hobby going back to Rouge Trader. Everything changes, nothing is static. If nothing changed Warhammer would still be incredibly silly where Space Marines were just normal humans and the Ultramarine’s chief librarian was half Eldar. So here’s the hard part, if you feel attacked by GW and feel like other games don’t want you around… then maybe you are the one with the problem. If reading that has your finger all hot to come at me then get a grip, figure your life out. I’m getting really tired of all the titty baby crying going on around here.

@SethLooks

2 ай бұрын

If that’s the lesson you are talking from the ultra authoritarian governments in 40K and cyber punk stories you might be missing the part about them being bad. And it’s really weird if you think these awful government systems are somehow less awful because they have a few women or block people in them. Yikes.

@jamesmacken9501

2 ай бұрын

Marines were established to be enhanced since Rogue Trader and was elaborated on further years prior to 2nd editions release. The lore overall outside off mess ups by authors that excused are as ''unreliable narrators'' by GW to avoid having to deal with it and 5th edition Necrons (a controversial change still to this day) has been consistent since it solidified in the 3rd edition period. GW has advertised jobs specifically to keep track off lore to and avoid errors so it's not as if the company itself doesn't care about the matter. To act as though everyone else is a childish baby and name calling others for caring about inconsistency in a story is in itself a childish act.

@SethLooks

2 ай бұрын

@@jamesmacken9501you are missing my broader point to key into one part that if removed from my post wouldn’t change the message

@mumflerdinclebottom5507

2 ай бұрын

If it doesn't matter and anything can be changed at any moment for any reason, then why should we care enough about the lore enough to spend 100s of hours and 1000s of dollars to be immersed in this expansive and expensive hobby?

@SethLooks

2 ай бұрын

@@mumflerdinclebottom5507 Lore is a supplement to the game. If you can’t enjoy the game for what it is then why bother playing? In the past they changed aspects of the lore, people complained and nothing changed. Recently they changed aspects of the lore, people complained and nothing change . In the future they will change aspects of the lore, people will complain and nothing will change

Bro someone says the word "girlfriend" near you and you go on some insane schizobabble rant for 5 minutes yes we have a toxic community youre part of it

@rudesthazard5769

2 ай бұрын

Normies bringing in the weird predatory social game baggage, then blame the "toxic" nerds for it will never not be funny to me lol cope

@astolbro7183

2 ай бұрын

@@rudesthazard5769 nah normies are the ones coming into my space and bitching about their sex lives when i want to talk about space knights shooting space goblins "Toxic nerds" cheat at the game and shit on new peoples hobby skills its the flood of normies and culture war tourists that shove themselves into every space they can wearing the trappings of our community just to bitch and moan about women

@rudesthazard5769

2 ай бұрын

@@astolbro7183 You're almost there. I find leftoid culture warriors to be far more toxic and far more common than the rightoid ones or the apparently hordes of sexists, ists, and phobes that allegedly exist. I'm bi and I've been playing MtG and other games for like 25+ years and never felt unwelcome for it. The only time I'm made to feel unwelcome is by the leftoid culture warriors. Who have the institutional power to gatekeep and bully in a way that their equal opposites can only dream of.

@astolbro7183

2 ай бұрын

@rudesthazard5769 All of these idiots are incapable of leaving their miserable little shitty problems at home and talking about the game Its all "oh my wife/husband/sister/manager did bla bla bla" the work part is particularly bad normies seem incapable of seperating their work and personal life The worst part is when you ask them something about their army or whatever they give you this look of confusion that you actually want to engage with the game you spent hundreds of hours doing Im sick of the hordes of mind numb idiots that seem to only play the game because youre supposed to have a hobby

@princepsarqueek

2 ай бұрын

Touch some grass, breath some air and leave reddit