65% more bullet per bullet!

@dannyhanny1191

5 жыл бұрын

That's funny shit!. lol

@WoodstaS

5 жыл бұрын

Haha, yo dawg, I heard you like bullets!

@MassLox

5 жыл бұрын

@@WoodstaS that's a really old meme, a man of culture I see.

@lamenoodles7282

4 жыл бұрын

Like having another soldier on the field.

@partyrobbins4690

4 жыл бұрын

65% more freedom.

Oh look a nice presenter who didnt mind answering questions and was ok with Ian saying he didnt see a difference. This was nice. Actually a neat concept

@chitoryu12

5 жыл бұрын

It's almost like they have confidence in their product and aren't afraid that simple questions from an expert will make them look stupid....

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

@@chitoryu12 i likw this idea and will interested to see it in practical use. And Ian and Karl seemed intrigued

@nilskahle5863

5 жыл бұрын

Isnt Ian seeing no difference a good thing here though?

@Blunderful19

5 жыл бұрын

To be fair, if you talk to Ian in the first place you probably know he's not going to hold any punches.

@COIcultist

5 жыл бұрын

Help did I watch a different't video or am I dumb and missing something. Not disagreeing with anyone on this thread the point I thought was being missed is: Subsonic ammunition is by definition sub 1,126 fps. Don't know if it is because of instability of flight in the transonic region or for other reasons but 9mm subsonic is slower still. A 147gr 9mm sub being typically 980fps. Now the maxim that comes to mind is *"Slow hollowpoints don't really expand."* Looking at the film showing the fired hollowpoints the expansion doesn't look too shabby? So is this because: The longer projectile allows a deeper hollowpoint giving longer petals that can expand more easilly? The extra mass gives increased momentum that changes the forces increasing the hollowpoints expansion? This was the "Snake Oil" bit, the fired projectiles came out of a PCC with an over length chamber and they created a bastard 9X (21 to 23mm) cartridge to throw the projectile down the barrell at 1,150fps plus? That last suggestion was a joke BTW. It's just no one commented on the expansion of the fired projectiles and that was the elephant in the woodpile to me. Or did I miss the obvious?

We need a Paul Harrell meat target test.

@grendelgrendelsson5493

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Bring on the meat!!

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

I might settle for an Andrew from TFB gel test

@blackbird_actual

5 жыл бұрын

ASAP

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mr.9x19mm that new bungee cord makes all the difference

@terryfaugno9242

5 жыл бұрын

Alternately, it'd be nice if ShootingTheBull410 did some high speed, chronographed gelatin tests on a selection of their offerings.

Seems like a good idea for suppressed uses.

@silentbob267

5 жыл бұрын

@@Paelorian Two factors go into calculating kinetic energy, mass and velocity. If you limit your velocity to just below supersonic the only way to deliver more kinetic energy is to use more mass. More kinetic energy typically equals more effect on targets when hunting.

@willh2739

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tomartyr hollow points are a war crime lol

@willh2739

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tomartyr I do understand that the bullet does not need to be a hollow point to be heavy

@wrathmachine7609

3 жыл бұрын

@@willh2739 The projectile has to be the same length to fit in magazines, so packing weight into the same space means you need to experiment with dense metals.

@Alf763

3 жыл бұрын

@@willh2739 doesn’t mean they don’t get used

Mass vs. Velocity has been an argument since the advent of smokeless powder.

That’s a lotta grains out of a 9mm para. Presumably slower burning powder would favour longer barrels

@dankdark974

5 жыл бұрын

These could be kickass in a PCC

@kaeskawood9020

5 жыл бұрын

Subsonics, heavy projectiles... I smell a modern DeLisle in the making. >the .45 ACP ammo is even more ridiculous for that

@tommihommi1

5 жыл бұрын

throw this ammo in a MP5

@matthayward7889

5 жыл бұрын

Kaeska Wood that would be awesome! Let’s hope someone tries it 👍

@matthayward7889

5 жыл бұрын

Dank Dark I’m hoping In Range will make it happen!

Next year at Shot show 2020.... Degenerate Neutron bullets. "Yes we use at 15.438^9 grain bullet.... "

Knockdown power is a meme in terms of handgun calibers, but that expansion on those rounds looks pretty nasty.

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

Eh ive seen deer with everything from 9mm to .45 acp, 10mm and .44- bigger bullets have a much more pronounced affect on live targets

@jamesstewart3856

4 жыл бұрын

“Knockdown power” is a meme in relation to how hits usually discusses (caliber v caliber) but the higher amount of ft/lbs would be nasty in the wound channel. Very interesting round tbh

@X4Alpha4X

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamesstewart3856 higher ft/lbs doesn't mean anything for tissue damage assuming a complete pass through of the target. Handguns do not produce sufficient velocities for hydro-static shock to damage surrounding tissue like rifle cartridges. Strictly speaking of wounding capacity the larger the projectile as it passes through the better. IE FMJ 9mm < FMJ .45 ACP < HP 9mm < HP .45ACP. This is also assuming the projectile retains 100% of its mass, the more mass it dumps = more fragmenting, more fragmenting = more tissue damaged. Again, assuming complete passthrough.

@nicolasderra3888

Жыл бұрын

Pretty little fun summer project for the surgeon for sure.

@GallopingWalrus

Жыл бұрын

I think it's a meme till about 9x25 Dillon/Max 10mm Auto loads. At that point I think the wounding potential on CXP2 size game (deer, antelope, goats, small black bear, human) does start to pull away from the 9s and 45s of the common handgun world.

One thing you guys forgot to mention is that here you can get about the same impact energy while shoot supressed sub sonic ammo.

@Desrtfox71

5 жыл бұрын

That's pretty much the whole point in my opinion.

@ryleynoyes

5 жыл бұрын

I was looking for this comment before I posted it

@maluco132

4 жыл бұрын

As val want to know your location

The ages old debate: "Speed kills vs. Payload is everything."

But does it use tank technology?!

@florix7889

3 жыл бұрын

No it uses rocket ship technology

@theknifeman7097

3 жыл бұрын

lmao that guy was funny

Any engineers want to help me develop a bullpup, double belt fed, double barrel, single toggle lock, lever action, .44 magnum pistol? Investors are standing by.

@ValThracian

5 жыл бұрын

I've got plans, but it requires the gun to also have a cybernetic dog brain

@EDSKaR

5 жыл бұрын

Investors and engineers are not going to be the most scarce people for such a gun, that would be customers.

@rogerj412

5 жыл бұрын

I see you're taking the snake oil line from the video and slithering with it.

@BeltFedSelfDefense

5 жыл бұрын

You build it and they will come... to laugh.

@eisenkrieg553

5 жыл бұрын

Make that a short recoil hmg and I'm in.

I was hoping depleted uranium … oh well

@RalphReagan

5 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly

@scowler92

5 жыл бұрын

DU is still radioactive.

@briankerr4512

5 жыл бұрын

Cool … you'll be able to find the bodies in the dark … corpse tracers

@spencermerritt3891

5 жыл бұрын

@@scowler92 Eh, really just alpha radiation. Don't put it in your mouth and you'll be fine.

@felixcat9318

5 жыл бұрын

DU was my initial thought, closely followed by, surely not!

How to make your sig 365 weigh 2lbs.

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

Makes it a better throwing implement

@BeltFedSelfDefense

5 жыл бұрын

@@beardoggin8963 It should be lighter when the time to throw arrives.

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

Another Guy lol not if it is like the 1st gen 365s and the firing pin breaks or it just won’t cycle. That is what I was getting at

@guntotingnerd8830

5 жыл бұрын

forgive my age but kzread.info/dash/bejne/eauqu6Vtct2ZZrA.html

@FiveTwoSevenTHR

5 жыл бұрын

@@beardoggin8963 they still making the first gen. They have just made revisions to the first design. If they called every revision to the design a new generation, the 320 would be on like Gen 40.

Elmer Keith is losing his s*** right now

@scowler92

5 жыл бұрын

Why?

@Elminster2000

5 жыл бұрын

@@scowler92 kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zahpupqfj8LcoM4.html :)

@kyleclark4449

5 жыл бұрын

@@scowler92 Because this is just the kind of thing he was aiming to do with his semi-wadcutter rounds.

@scowler92

5 жыл бұрын

@@kyleclark4449 Well at least someone got it.

@kyleclark4449

5 жыл бұрын

@@scowler92 I can't help but imagine how one of the 9mm. loads would do in a sub-compact pistol. Probably like having a snubnosed .357

Already did the math, seems like the 185gr is doing about 370 ft lbs, in at 950 fps(according to their site) what barre that is, I dont know. I also did the typical adjustments for a carbine and numbers seem to be coming in around 1,235 fps at 624 ft lbs. That is provided of course the powder is even suitable for use in a carbine and etc... But for anybody wondering how a carbine might effect this ammo or what kinda specs is it getting, the 950 fps is their claim on their site. The 370 ft lbs is just using a simple ballistics calculator. I hope that answers any questions some may have on what kind of performance they could expect. In all honesty, the 185gr ammo seems to be doing about what .40 S&W is doing stock, only the .40 S&W can get a little more oomph... That being said, now 9mm guys can really say it can do what the .40 S&W can do and then some I guess. Well... to an extent anyways.

@schifty1

5 жыл бұрын

I'm not a .40 guy, but I'd really like to see this concept applied to the .40 S&W. Might take some of the snap out of that cartridge.

@SorrowfulFoxx21

5 жыл бұрын

@@schifty1 The .40 S&W is a daily carry for me, and I can agree with you on this. That cartridge has way too much recoil, especially in a polymer frame like my S&W SD40VE, or a Glock or M&P Shield. I believe it would improve it dramatically, but with the drawback of cost. Twenty five rounds locally of .40 HP is twenty bucks give or take and I can only imagine how much that would cost, not to mention everyone getting away from .40 S&W in favor of 10mm and 9mm +P+.

@davet231

5 жыл бұрын

Nothing is stopping them from giving the same treatment to .40, just startinng with your two most popular cals. Would be interesting to see what they could do with 10mm.

@SorrowfulFoxx21

5 жыл бұрын

@@jdoerr779 But going .45 ACP limits magazine capacity, out of most .45s (that aren't 1911, or its derivitives) ten to twelve rounds in a flush fitting magazine. Whereas I can get an additional two rounds of .40 cal from something as basic as a starter S&W. Not to mention concealed carry, where you get even more limited capacity, which at that point, is equivalent in capacity as a revolver in a magnum load. However, .45 has its perks. More mass means more delivered kinetic energy on target.

@davet231

5 жыл бұрын

Indefinite depends on how slow burning the powered is, they may be able to work up a carbine specific load with really slow burning powder.

You be the judge

I'd like to see some gel tests, as well as accuracy testing to see if the usual rifling twist rates will stabilize it effectively.

When are the low velocity 9mm HE rounds for high angle artillery fire coming out? I need to do some medicinal fire support missions.

@13ECHO20

5 жыл бұрын

FDC is in the house!

@johnparrish9215

5 жыл бұрын

A 9mm HEAT round??????? OUCH

@iseeu721

4 жыл бұрын

9mm HESH to cave their entire rib cage/skull in

Wow, 325gr 45cal, that's 45-70 territory, at least in bullet weight.

@joshy7759

4 жыл бұрын

Came here to say my "leverevolution" 45-70's are 325 grain.

@sladeoriginal

3 жыл бұрын

Too bad the bullet would only travel 10 yards before hitting the dirt.

@ChristopherHallett

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but at 100 fps, so at 50 feet "bulletproof" armour is effectively a cotton t-shirt...

@AdamantLightLP

9 ай бұрын

@@ChristopherHallett While it demolishes your ribs. Momentum matters too, it's not an argument of pure kinetic energy, or we'd see more teeny tiny rounds going hypersonic lol.

@whensomethingcriesagain

9 ай бұрын

​@@AdamantLightLP22 eargesplitten loudenboomer will see adoption any day now

I could smell Ian's suppressed eyebrow raise at, ". . . knock down power. . ."

I feel like this bullet working from a 9x23 case in something akin to a Destroyer carbine could be really neat.

@exohead1

5 жыл бұрын

@@davidsmith9189 Yes, but subsonic.

@johnparrish9215

5 жыл бұрын

A 38 Super would fit that bill.

@exohead1

5 жыл бұрын

david smith Nobody said anything about whether or not it was the best. Just that it would be neat. Sometimes things are interesting for the sake of being interesting.

@exohead1

5 жыл бұрын

david smith Good for them?

@exohead1

5 жыл бұрын

david smith Those factory pieces are far less interesting to me than what I am talking about.

Finally, someone developed a gee-wiz cartridge that makes sense and doesn't rely on unproven physics. I could see that 185gr 9mm load becoming my EDC.

@blegi1245

5 жыл бұрын

If the bullet performs terminally that would be a great home defense load with a silencer. If it actually performs you are getting normal pressure .45 acp energy levels in a subsonic 9x19. More mag capacity than .45 acp in a slimmer profile guns as well. I can see this taking off.

@skyhop

5 жыл бұрын

Less concerned about home defense and more concerned with the penetration such a heavy bullet will provide, especially from a small sub compact.

@Desrtfox71

5 жыл бұрын

@@skyhop Penetration will be low because it's subsonic. The idea here is, you're looking for the most ft lbs you can get, while staying subsonic. If you want penetration, go with a faster round.

@blegi1245

5 жыл бұрын

@@skyhop Are you also concerned about the penetration of .45 acp hollow points? Penetration as two components. Frontal area of the projectile and its kinetic energy at the time of impact(demonstrated well in the cases when hollowpoints fails to expand. Those bullets penetrate way deeper than same bullets fired from same gun to same target that do expand). If we assume same bullet performance(expansion and weight retention as a percentage) this will penetrate more than a normal pressure .45 acp hollow point(both have little over 500 joules of energy at the muzzle) because the diameter of 9x19 is smaller and the sectional density of 12 gram 9x19 is greater than 15 gram .45 acp. Like i said it will come down to the terminal performance of the actual bullet to determine if its worth it.

@skyhop

5 жыл бұрын

More mass always penetrates more. Faster rounds expand faster and lose energy faster. This is gradeschool level physics.

The dual metal case seems interesting. I feel this ammo is deserving of a full length video.

When these 2 are happy, I'm happy.

So would this be on par with modern defense loads? Sounds like it has the ballistics of a .40 without the recoil and magazine space limitations. They look expensive too.

So basically, they put a phat .357 round in a 9mm case...... Sounds cool to me. I'd Be interested in what the speeds of that round are, subsonic is subsonic but still.

Hmmm, I’m curious on velocity and ft/lbs. vs 115gr 124gr 9mm and 230gr .45,will have to look them up.

@soylentgreen7074

5 жыл бұрын

I just looked it up it’s 185 grain ammo at 950 ft./s so it’s basically 40 Smith & Wesson 180gr velocities and power without the recoil and you still get the 9mm capacity. There’s no information on the 325gr .45acp yet.

@soylentgreen7074

5 жыл бұрын

No info on 12 gauge either. Coming soon.

@soylentgreen7074

5 жыл бұрын

My biggest question is going to be how much does that depend on barrel length and will it be reliable with a fully loaded magazine. With the extra weight you’re probably going to have to have a heavier magazine spring to push up all of the extra weight. The factory springs are tuned for 115 to 147gr.

@soylentgreen7074

5 жыл бұрын

Jonas Strzyz It depends on the caliber but even with fast burning powder you lose a lot from a 3 inch to a 4 inch barrel in 9 mm. With this slower burning powder I wouldn’t go below a 4 1/2 inch barrel would be my guess in 9 mm and 45 doesn’t get A full powder burn as it is in a 5 inch 1911 barrel so my guess is the barrel length is going to be more significant compared to standard powder but again I’m just speculating. Take this with a grain of salt, I would have to do tests of my own. Unless Karl and Ian are going to do them for us. I can see this ammo doing very well in pistol caliber SBR‘s.

@vincentslone1463

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, you don't know off the top of your head? Most 9MM loads are boasted with better numbers than they'll actually post. For instance while looking at average energy ratings for .40 AND 9MM (love knowing I'm smarter than other people writing actual articles), they had the average .40 load posted at 420 ft. lbs. of energy and 9MM at 450 ft. lbs. of energy. Your average 155gr .40 load will give you around 500 ft. lbs. of energy. My personal carry option is a DoubleTap 125gr TAC-XP that's rated at 1,425 FPS (4.5") producing closer to 600 ft. lbs. of energy. I've chronographed their loads PAST the advertised velocity. Again, even your comparable 9MM DoubleTap load wouldn't make anything past 500 ft. lbs., and they load HOT ammo. This 9MM delusion is annoying. More energy equals more tissue damage, no 9MM load will surpass a comparable .40 S&W load. It was designed to be one stuff above 9MM, as well as most .45 ACP loads. Rarely will you see a premium LE .40 load fail to expand, with heavy 9MM and .45 though. Sadly, that happens all the time.

Interesting round well-explained.

Now that looks like a great idea and execution! One thing that came to mind when he mentioned that these run in select-fires was the mental image of points of impact if you had half a mag in these bad boys and half in standard 115gr, hah!

@Erpyrikk

5 жыл бұрын

nah, should have groups of 3. would be funny to see the shooters reaction on high speed.

I quite like this idea. Being that it's loaded heavy but runs slow, this could theoretically (even though the US military would never field this) run quieter but hit just as hard on more low profile engagements. Pretty cool idea. Toying with physics and ballistics is always fun. Neat product. I'd definitely buy a few boxes to see what it's like.

i like this product. and openly supporting Defcon too, makes it even better.

My first thought about pressure's was if it would work in a hipoint, glad to hear it as the first one listed lol

Talk about a must have at shot show... Those geissele badge holders are great! I use them for other trade shows.

Saved for future look for ballistics testing

I'm glad people are using the shell shock cases to make different style projectiles. Like one new technology allows another be created and combined.

1.5 Knockdowns

@BeltFedSelfDefense

5 жыл бұрын

So 17 rounds in a magazine at 1.5 knockdowns per round means you get 25.5 knockdowns in a standard glock 17, and 27 knockdowns if carried with one in the chamber.

I'd really like to know the velocity on those rounds to see how much energy they have. I get the idea since slower speeds, larger bullets plus a hollow point will help prevent over penetration and therefore transfer more energy to the target but do they actually have less energy then a standard round due to that loss of speed or is the mass increase enough to make up for it?

I’m interested, great to see a new product

While momentum is beneficial for carrying speed through the air, the energy that you’re putting down range would increase more with a faster velocity. The equation for momentum is Mass X Velocity, while the equation for kinetic energy is (1/2) X Mass X (Velocity)^2. So, energy increases by the square of velocity, and is directly proportional to mass. I don’t know enough to speak of wound cavities, and whether or not a high speed pass-through would do more damage than a lower speed expansion, but the physics is pretty cool.

If you want to get nerdy, ballistic gel test these against Federal HST 147 grain and get the recoil impulse in high speed

For me this might be the most interesting thing from shot this year. I'd like to see lucky Gunner do some ballistic testing with it

@mountainhobo

5 жыл бұрын

"I'd like to see lucky Gunner do some ballistic testing with it" -- Yes.

Curious how this performs in something like an M&P Shield. Typically a slower burning powder means a longer barrel. I do like this idea though, especially for use with suppressors

Would love to see more vids on ammo and mud(environmental) tests.

This is awesome, didn’t know about this company. Been wanting to make something like this for a while, if you want more power but still want that quiet, you are limited to increasing mass. 460 Rowland could likely push those 45 bullets to close to the supersonic limit, make for a powerful subsonic round in a tiny package.

Put those .45 projectiles in .460 Rowland cases lol

See now this is something that interests me!

Seems pretty neat

Cool idea. I want to see more testing on the super fast bullet, the super heavy bullet, and a standard bullet tested side by side on ballistic gel.

Well, by the physics, force is mass x velocity(squared). So technically, you can sacrifice mass, potentially up to the square root, in favor of velocity and have a net gain in force. However, I think the salient point that the rep made was that this ammunition is optimized for subsonic performance. With that in mind, you have an absolute maximum velocity that you can achieve, and since you can shoot out of subguns or PC Carbines with this ammo, they have to keep it subsonic whether it's from a 4in or a 14in barrel. With that in mind, your V is capped, and the only way to improve the force equation is by increasing M. Also, there is potentially a higher chance of full transfer of force, as well as conservation of momentum due to a larger/heavier round having more resistance to drag, as well as potentially expanding to a larger diameter on impact without fragmenting. I won't call this one 'snake oil', but I believe that it's going to have a very narrow application set, primarily that to people hunting with PC Carbines or pistols, Military/LE (especially those using suppressed weapons), and Karl and Ian at subgun matches.

@InRangetv so many people get caught up in the velocity wars because “speed beats armor”. While this is true, a slower velocity with more mass can both bump up impact numbers but also provide a more reliable COMPLETE transfer of energy to an UNARMORED target (which, is statistically much more likely in an average self defense situation). Karl, to quote you “there is a there, there”. This company has my attention.

Those bullets are HUGE

I guess the added benefit of subsonic

Yes please

AWESOME !

I have to agree with the rep, "Heavier hits harder". Ive seen that first hand hunting. High speed light bullets have a place but at close range when knocking down the target asap is desired, a heavier bullet is the way to go

Ian I used to have those gloves and one morning I left them on top my truck and I could never find them again weird ask but did you buy them recently they were my favorit

I don't trust anyone who uses 'knock down power' as a metric to qualify their ammo. I'll wait for the gel tests.

@Sn4k3f1st

5 жыл бұрын

but it nocs down targets pretty well

@andyw237

5 жыл бұрын

YES thank you! fudd lore at its best.

@jcf150_9

5 жыл бұрын

@@andyw237 THEY DONT MAKE A 46 BOI

@avocares

5 жыл бұрын

Ignorant people use "knock down power" and there are a lot of them. I don't fault the sales team for using their language, because they are a large market the company wants to sell to, as long as it's backed up by sound factual testing with barriers and gel to measure what the terminal performance really is.

@yodaddy4944

5 жыл бұрын

Most people use that term interchangeably with muzzle energy, if you can get two projectiles to stop in a body the heavier or faster one will impart more energy, but I think you can get more ftlbs easier with weight vs speed

that's a LOT more

I'd be curious to see how the velocity (and energy) changes based on barrel length with super-heavy projectiles like that. I thought that in general heavy-for caliber ammunition has less of a drop in velocity (percentage wise) as you shorten a barrel. Could be useful in a micro-9, assuming that works.

The problem is in general speed, trumps mass. There is a reason we have gone to higher FPS, lighter bullets in rifles. Speed gives you farther range and a flatter trajectory. It also gives superior armor penetration, example a hot rod round like the 7.62x25 tok will sail through most soft body armor. I like the concept and practice, they have a certain purpose these will be amazing suppressed. Also I seem to remember a shot show where you were poo-pooing the concept of a bi-metal cartridge.

@skyhop

5 жыл бұрын

Until you exceed 2200fps, that speed isn't going to benefit you MORE than weight will. After 2200fps, yeah, things do tend to start favoring lighter projectiles, anything it takes to break that threshold. Below that, you're better off increasing the mass as much as possible to give the bullet a greater chance to drive deeper as it expands.

I have that same brown coat. Neat. The ccw pockets are kinda meh but it's a good coat.

What I am most curious about is the price difference between this and standard 9mm ammo. It isn't really any good if it costs as much as 100 standard rounds, at least for those of us who aren't so loaded they can dump $300 on a forward assist for the 22nd Colt AR.

I totally expected this to be Ian and Karl ripping some snake oil ammo guy. I'm pleasantly surprised.

2:38 "Very slow burning powder" -- If it's a very slow burning powder, what is the minimum recommended barrel length to get the full benefit of it?

@Fr33zy159

3 жыл бұрын

From their site they rec >3.5". I shoot them out of my Glock 19 with no issues whatsoever. I definitely carry different ammo with my P365 though.

@matthewcaughey8898

3 жыл бұрын

@@Fr33zy159 was hoping to see if it works in my Sig P938

would love to see how a 1911 in 9mm and one in 45acp whould handle this. maybe a side by side comparison, possibly some ballistic jell test even

Did anyone hear or ask what the velocity of the round was. I looked on their website and I wasn't able to find it?

From experience Self defense shooting I used hornady xtp Five shots center mass Bad guy reached the ER faster than I can get there Bad guy Survived I should’ve use 45 cap

Cool looks just right for the keltec 2000

The shooter gets hit with just as much momentum as the target. The guys selling faster smaller bullets are the ones selling the good stuff. The main advantage I see to a large bullet is when you want to stay subsonic. With a speed limit, the only way to get more energy down range is by increasing the mass of the bullet. If one doesn't care about staying subsonic, the faster the better (as long as there's not over penetration). At least this is what makes sense as far as the physics goes. There's a huge difference between momentum and kinetic energy. As I started out saying, the gun powder sends just as much momentum into the shooters hand as it sends down range to the target. Obviously the momentum of a round isn't the property one uses to figure out stopping power.

that is very very interesting

"You be the judge" - P.H.-

I would be curious to learn the muzzle velocity of such a cartridge. From what I understood about physics, velocity matters quite a bit when it comes to kinetic energy.

Im interested in the AARP round.

as long as you get decent enough velocity for hollow point expansion this has potential.

The physics only make sense if the terminal performance exists. For a pistol caliber the number 1 rule is dumping as much of, if not all of the projectile's energy into the target and of course while penetrating. JHP help ensure that with the added benefit of cutting action with larger wound channel due to the jacket splaying out and lead expansion. With more lead you do have the opportunity of more expansion but only if the bullet is designed to do so and crucial to expand at lower velocities. But back to basics, if the bullet doesnt have the energy when leaving the muzzle, being heavier isnt going to magically make it perform better. Also its gonna drop like a rock and shed energy very fast. Its basically a .380 ACP with 40 cal weight lol.

I would love to see that .45 bullet loaded in an 45 colt case. Load it to standard pressures(around 900-1000 FPS), and you would have one wicked defensive load for the single action fans out there.

I wonder how well it stabilizes out of standard 9mm barrels. I have heard of problems with bullet stability from 230 grain bullets grain out of some barrels in 10mm. That's not to say a faster twist in a different barrel would not make it work just fine. Keep in mind a jump from 55 grains to 62 grains made the military speed up the twist rate in the M16.

Any idea about the fps/mps? I'm curious if a drastically slower bullet would deliver less energy over a coventional +p even considering the immense weight. Also curious about the powder grain. EDIT: NEVERMIND THIS WAS JUST ANSWERED

Ive wanted to do this for so long... Ive loaded 158's from my 38 mold sized down to 356 but I wanted to go bigger..

I feel like these are a shoe-in for suppressed use. Slow em down just enough and enjoy that mighty thump.

BTW Karl, what jacket are you wearing? It looks different than a normal M-65

This ammo reminds me of the praises the Hudson h9 got

Very cool special purpose round. Would be great with a can.

Very interesting, I see merit there. Us bullet casters have dabbled in this plenty. I do have to call BS on the Shellshock brass. Absolutely unnecessary and just added cost. Standard brass can handle the pressure. I am a USPSA open division shooter and my 9mm major power factor load is a 124gr Precision Delta HP propelled to 1485fps average by a healthy charge of Vhitavouriv 3n38. Quickload calculates the maximum chamber pressure to be just north of 50,000psi. There are modern rifle cartridges lower than that. I use regular plain brass, most is range pickup and being fired many times. That "brass" isn't necessary. Plus for the reloader, that brass requires special dies and it's a pain in the ass. Being able to pick it up with a magnet is it's only redeeming quality.

I'd be curious to know what velocities their getting

Does this stabilize correctly in standard 9mm rifling? It seems fine on a steel target, but that can be deceptive. I'd be really interested in a comparison shooting this back to back with standard 115gr in the same gun.

Their website says that they don't recommend using it in an HK USP...???

High Mass ammunition? Let me know when we get some Tungsten ammunition, now THAT will be high mass.

@beardoggin8963

5 жыл бұрын

Tungsten is so hard it would be like shooting ball ammo. Tungsten is great in shotgun pellets

@blegi1245

5 жыл бұрын

Wolfram is stupid expensive and the projectile metallurgy is "slightly" complicated. For example wolfram tank rounds cost in the region of 5000$ a piece.

@RalphReagan

5 жыл бұрын

No tungsten is not high mass look at your atomic table

@Erpyrikk

5 жыл бұрын

@@RalphReagan Atomic mass is not the same as material density.

@jacobacon3219

5 жыл бұрын

david smith Goodbye barrel.

So, is this round sacrificing range/flatness for muzzle energy via more mass?

Ive use these personally and they definitely kick like a race horse

Maybe I'm missing something here. As I understand it you want to deliver the maximum amount of energy that is practical. Kinetic energy is defined as being 1/2MV² so while doubling the mass and maintaining the same velocity would give you twice as much energy, doubling the velocity for the same mass would give you 4 times as much energy. Wouldn't the desire to be to make the fastest cartridge as is possible for a given bullet weight? Momentum is the derivative of energy and as such is defined as MV so straight mass x velocity. So by the formula doubling the mass gets you 2x Energy and 2x momentum but doubling velocity gets you 4x energy and that same 2x momentum. Anyone care to explain what I'm missing?

@sawyernorthrop4078

3 жыл бұрын

As far as I can tell it's up for debate whether energy or momentum is more relevant

You guys did a spinner test a few years ago of .45 vs 9mm Luger on the spinner It would be fun to see 115gr vs 185gr 9mm challenge on the degreased spinner to see if a difference is there

I really hope they have a heavy 556 projectile for subsonic hand loads. Maybe it will be easier hit the sweet spot to cycle an ar but stay slow.

I'd be worried about malfunction due to that shotshell primer casing (red area) at the back being ripped off by the extractor. especially after the the chamber heats up, and the metal expands, creating a tighter chamber. Might be fine for a few shots (it's intention). But I'd suspect prolonged firing would create more than average number of malfunctions. And bad ones at that, because if the rear rips off you have nowhere to preass against, to remove a jam. you'd have to remove the barrel to extract the steel wall of the cartridge.

m.v^2 ........ I want to know what the velocity is. Especially with a slower burning powder in a pistol.

Is there some way you guys could actually measure knock down power? Maybe shoot at some steel pressure plates?

You Guys are the Coolest Nerds on KZread

Is it me or the bullet shown in the mag at 3:57 doesn't look like the one in Ian's gloves? Seems more brass/copper then red/stainless

Hum, interesting idea. I never thought that much could fit into a 9mm. I see they had to do a LOT of work to get it to all work together. I am willing to give it a try. Also that 12ga round is more then twice the weight of a standard slug, ha.