I saw the thumbnail and was like "no they don't have that" open video "goddamn. They do"

@user-mb9ke5dz7l

4 жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing. "Oh nice clickbait thumbnail hurrdy durr."

@Ezekiel_Allium

3 жыл бұрын

Literally never thought I'd see answers for how well this worked

Please put a round or two of this into gel. Would be interesting to see the would tracks.

@ChucksSEADnDEAD

5 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/aq2D0Nytf7LWpMo.html

@mouse454

5 жыл бұрын

projectiles

@g52879

5 жыл бұрын

I agree! This special round needs to be tested through gel so we can see what it does!

@warrenokuma7264

4 жыл бұрын

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Thanks!

@brinsonharris9816

Ай бұрын

There’s vid on the Brass Fetcher channel. This vid was next on my suggestions from Al Gore Rythm.

“That’s 65% more bullet per bullet”

@marcuszucc4780

4 жыл бұрын

Cave Johnson, we're done here

@bradtidball5206

4 жыл бұрын

Premier advertising

@CalgarGTX

4 жыл бұрын

@@manitoba-op4jx Or the mg42 in day of defeat source shooting bullets 2 by 2

@talhahtaco2035

3 жыл бұрын

@@CalgarGTX wouldn't it be an MG3 since this is 762 duplex and i doubt they made any for 8mm mauser

I went through Edson Range in 1971 with M14's. They made reference to duplex rounds but I never actually saw one. When I got to my permanent unit we had M16A1's. I always wondered about them. Thanks for making this video, I finally got to see some duplex rounds after more than 40 years.

@thomasc7610

5 жыл бұрын

Love your username by the way

@MountaintravelerEddie

5 жыл бұрын

Oh how Edson range has NOT changed...I just retired in April. We would use Wilcox range when Edson was being used by other units. We actually pulled the M-14’s out of mothballs and shot them first at Edson, refitted the stocks and a few parts, then they were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. I got my first one when I was in Iraq 2004. We got all types of rounds....blue tip with silver band 7.62....that was leftover (LC 78) we got it from the ammo guys. Semper GySgt USMC / Retired

@stevewilson7819

4 жыл бұрын

Makes me think they must have field tested it. If it never made it past the experimental testing phase you’d think it would have been classified. And a PMI wouldn’t have ever heard of it. I went through Edson Range in 1980. Also qualified at Range 214 when I was with 1/11. I never saw an M14 until 1987. That was when I started shooting NRA Highpower.

@TheArklyte

3 жыл бұрын

Well, intermediate rounds kind of killed the concept. This thing makes a point only for battle rifle. /Cough/preferably a FAL and not M14/cough/ So it just surfaced as an idea TOO late. Plus using different ammo for different ranges would have been weird for the troops.

@muddyhotdog4103

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheArklyte I would think it would do an even better job with machine guns and suppressive firing

Duplex rounds with a burst rifle sounds like the best solution to increase hit probability.

@dogboy0912

5 жыл бұрын

The Colt ACR from the old Advanced Rifle Program was supposed to use duplex

@silverd20

4 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 I don't know, I play a lot of long range shooting type games (Squad, Arma, etc.) And there have been a number of times I have been in thr position where I *justt missed a fleeting target because I didnt have enough time to lead properly. This would essentially give me a %50 chance of hit when my lead was a little off. And I think in a practical setting that is a big deal.

@JinKee

4 жыл бұрын

How about duplex bullets with double barreled automatic rifle?

@Ezekiel_Allium

3 жыл бұрын

@@JinKee have you seen that three barreled russian assault rifle?

@vincereviews

3 жыл бұрын

@@silverd20 you assumed that the extra projectile would go in such a way that actually helped you lead. There are 4 directions (in this context)

I agree, a slow motion video of these would be awesome, it's never been done, and may never again...

@purplepenguin43

5 жыл бұрын

ian, slowmo guys or smarter everyday, Destin would love this stuff

@sickofhobos

5 жыл бұрын

@@purplepenguin43 taufledermaus(probably spelled it wrong) but he would absolutely shoot this stuff on high speed

@P61guy61

4 жыл бұрын

Ssslllloowwwwww it downnnnnnn

You mean the military came up with something that does what it says on the tin?

@4thserviceco1983

5 жыл бұрын

TTMR1986 notice they didn’t bother using it long (if at all)

@wahngott4711

4 жыл бұрын

It's the fallout 4 legendary perk where it shoots 2 round per round

@Macomio80

4 жыл бұрын

Yes - but that's why they didn't adopt it on the long term.

@ShuRugal

4 жыл бұрын

And then after establishing that it did as it says on the tin, they promptly canned it and forgot about it. HUA!

@TheArklyte

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShuRugal well, they switched to assault rifles and LMGs, this thing is working only with battle rifles and GPMGs. So it's more of a too little too late.

A round for hostage situations where you really don't like the hostage or hostage taker.. Also imagine these in a minigun..

@Brekwon97

5 жыл бұрын

easy with the minigun talk..... thats a scary thought haha

@Warriorcat49

5 жыл бұрын

Ten bullets per tracer, even when the belts are loaded 4-1.

@Internetspaceships

5 жыл бұрын

@@Brekwon97 If the minigun is set to 6000rpm that is 12000 effective rounds per minute or 200 rounds PER SECOND :D

@ChucksSEADnDEAD

5 жыл бұрын

@@Internetspaceships "it costs 100,000 dollars to fire this gun for 12 seconds"

@scene24man

5 жыл бұрын

Internetspaceships 200 rounds/second. 400 bullets/second ... $4,000/second.

The closed captioning made "shot gun shells full of flechettes" into "shot gun shells full of flu shots". I fell out of my chair laughing.

@saint-cetacean

5 жыл бұрын

Take THAT anti-vaxxers!

@nathanboulton2066

3 жыл бұрын

in 2020 that's not such a far fetched idea!!

@joshuahadams

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, that could work with a modified tranquilizer dart. Probably would be like half a syringe of saline solution, but it’d work.

"But how are we going to shoot that at Camp Perry?" Good to see the top brass still thinking how they did in the 1860's!

@arkadeepkundu4729

4 жыл бұрын

Those damn kids, who do they think they are? Wanting lever action guns with magazines & pre-made ready to fire ammunition. Huh! Back in my day if you wanted to shoot someone, you had to cast your own lead the night before & ram it down the muzzle while they charged you with bayonets.

Oh, cool, Ian found a legendary Two Shot G3.

I always enjoy that you two on this Channel basically are the Comments for us, asking most of the possible questions about a subject during the video before the Comments can.

Gotta do the proper test. Load a belt, M60. Science

@SeizureSpecialist

5 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, the "I don't like that whole hillside" experiment.

@bthsr7113

5 жыл бұрын

No, the proper "I don't like that whole hillside" test here would be an M-134.

@MrChadsimoneaux

5 жыл бұрын

Sure Gus at $20 a round you're buying the ammo lol.

@OutsideTheTargetDemographic

5 жыл бұрын

"Science" indeed.

@joshman9757

5 жыл бұрын

$$$😩

My father-in-law will be 95 this year. He spent three months on the front line at Monte Cassino in 1944. In all that time he said he saw exactly one German soldier he estimates for less than two seconds several hundred yards away. He said he took a shot, but has no idea if he hit him. He said the chances of getting shot were pretty low. Incoming artillery and mortar rounds were another matter. Apparently video games aren't all that realistic.

@jediknight129

Жыл бұрын

play arma or some of the other serious shooters, or even the modern cod series I.die.more to.random explosive scorestreaks than being shot at in cod.

@cpi3267

Жыл бұрын

​@@jediknight129 hmm nah Maybe arma, but the scenarios that you are placed in that game tend to be the ones that would be more fun for a videogame than any real scenario

Perfect ammunition for hostage situations! Really spices things up!

@darklighter8968

4 жыл бұрын

Cluster Charge ready!

@teuflhunden

4 жыл бұрын

Effn lolz

@bezahltersystemtroll5055

3 жыл бұрын

gotta combine it with that sleeping gas for maximum spice though, Moscow theatre style 😂

@andrewgates8158

Жыл бұрын

Double whammy

Thanks for actually shooting some of these. There was also a white-tipped 'low recoil' round that used just the front bullet from the duplex.

Back of my mind: 1 box of 50s super-special ammo; that can't be cheap 13:55 : ah, no, that is about $20 a round ohhhkay, yeah, no.. you're not putting THAT through an M60 anymore..

@828enigma6

5 жыл бұрын

I just bought three Western brand JFK killer 6.5X52 Carcano cartriges at around $27 each. Rare stuff is expensive.

@hirumaryuei

5 жыл бұрын

Well, it probably cost considerably less than 20 USD to manufacture.

@crazyfvck

5 жыл бұрын

@@hirumaryuei Yup. That is just the current collector value.

@JacobTheGunNut

3 жыл бұрын

So cheaper than 9mm now?

I would have loved a few belts of that in my M60 back in the day. It would have been fun.

@bluefalconssuck5881

5 жыл бұрын

"Super Pig" Hahaha.

Best episode of inrange in a long time! Thanks for putting this to film, reminds me of the early WWII exploding ammo tests. Awesome to see some real high-tech, wiz-bang stuff from the good old days actually being but to task and seeing how it does.

Double the projectiles down range? Lets load an M134 full of duplex...

@MikeDCWeld

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking!

@mnguy98

5 жыл бұрын

Logging efficiency: +2000%

@mattigator600

5 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting. On the other hand, it would probably be cheaper to just get a second minigun

@IO-hh2fz

5 жыл бұрын

@@mattigator600 maybe, but you might not have the space to mount a second minigun on your vehicle/helo. And if you are using it for area suppression anyway using this kind of ammo makes a lot of sense.

@bthsr7113

3 жыл бұрын

@CIA BETA Wing nah, if you NEED multi-bullet ammo for an M-134 for max suppression... I think you're already f-ed.

Yea but my (insert WWII basic bolt action) consistently hits 1 MOA with any ammo. Sincerely, Mr. Fudd

@idontwanttoputmyname403

5 жыл бұрын

And it will blow your arm clean off!

@randonwilston

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly, and I know the other day at a bench the best I could do was 5-4 MOA but (insert lame excuse + windy) normally offhand I can do better I don’t know why the army would try something like this with a lighter less accurate bullet. Sincerely, Mr. Fudd

@dogboy0912

5 жыл бұрын

200 rounds, no malfunctions!

@G-Mastah-Fash

5 жыл бұрын

Can you see the bullets high velocity? It can blow a mans arm off at the count of three!

@bobbyhood101

4 жыл бұрын

Not in combat it doesn't with someone shooting back, at distance the number crunchers figured that out after ww2 that's where the idea for the duplex comes from on average it took thousands of rounds for each enemy casualty!

First to do that on youtube, gotta love you guys! Great and interesting content as ever. Best regards from a deployed swiss soldier

I've been waiting for someone to make this video for years. I assure you, gentlemen, you are in fact the first ones to film duplex rounds being fired. Thank you so much for finding these and finally, *finally* showing the world what they do. Utterly fascinating.

I saw the title and my mouth started to water. Also my mind wanders to 300blk with a pair of 55gr copper solids at around 2300fps. I wonder if I can make this happen.

@stelioeffrena1571

5 жыл бұрын

At 2300fps you are right at the edge of the velocity needed for rifle bullets to create rifle wounds, which means that at 100 yards you are probably getting pistol wounds instead of rifle wounds

@crazyfvck

5 жыл бұрын

@Gas Air Spark I'd love some duplex .50 Spotter/Tracer rounds ;) .50S/T is essentially a shortened .50 BMG round with an 830gr bullet :) So if you made it a duplex round, you'd be throwing 2 415gr projectiles down range at 1700fps. I think that would make for an excellent hog round ;)

@jacobackley502

4 жыл бұрын

@@stelioeffrena1571 The whole "you need X velocity to get secondary wound damage like a true rifle" thing has long been disproved. Look up terminal ballistic studies effect of meplat on terminal ballistics, and long range performance of elk rifle cartridges, as well as hunting with 500 JRH on elk and you will see larger than caliber sized wounds not only down to the 1700 fps mark with expanding/fragmenting bullets, but also

Inrange does video on duplex ammo. Meanwhile at Franklin armory's HQ: "crap how did they find out about our next new product?"

@goodmaninastorm4617

5 жыл бұрын

Except this stuff actually works...

Thank you guys so much for the quality of your content on both channels. You’ve more than earned my financial support

That was simply awesome. I've always been curious as to how well they actually worked, but never thought I'd actually see anything other than reports and hearsay. To actually see them in action is just great. I can't imagine those were easy to find, and I'm guessing they probably weren't cheap. So a HUGE thanks for doing this. Very, very cool of you guys. You answered one of those goofy little questions that has been rolling around in the back of my brain for years that I thought would never be answered. Edit: Ok, I hadn't quite finished the video before I typed this. Youch, that's expensive. So a double super huge thanks for doing this, lol...

If you poke around there were a few comment threads on The Firearm Blog where a helicopter door gunner from Vietnam chimed in; claimed that they got to use that stuff in the M60's sometimes. He actually had some video, too

@stevewilson7819

4 жыл бұрын

That confirms for me that they must have field tested it.

For machine gun use, they could always have alternated duplex with conventional ammunition in the belts, for use at all ranges.

@maxrieker1591

5 жыл бұрын

Statusinator that’s some big brain thinking right there. Or every 3 rounds

I've wondered about this stuff for decades. THANK YOU!

Great quality as always. I would be thrilled to see some coverage of carbon fiber barrels. I know it isn't the most sexy subject but the information is scarce and it looks promising.

Great video, super interesting content and your concluding analysis is spot on imo, well done!

This is SO counter intuitive, yet for some reason an ability to give battle rifle or GPMG "fake" rate of fire boost and a little dispersion _with just an ammo change_ to make it somewhat match intermediate assault rifles, avtomats and LMGs, sound really awesome. A bit too much into "too good to be true" territory, but still awesome. Weird to think that in Vietnam AKM could have clashed with duplex .280 FN FAL or something even more weird.

Epically fascinating experiment, gentleman. Thank you for shining a light on a US Ordnance project that I had never even heard of, much less seen objective results from. Thank you, as always, for all that you do in the preservation of an essential part of the human endeavor.

This is one of the coolest videos you guys have done on this channel!

First time I have ever seen someone shoot these rounds. Thanks for testing it! Would love to see more.

It's amazing that you even found some of that ammo!

Thanks for doing this, im always hungry for content related to the "SALVO" stuff.

Great video guys! Every time i see you in the desert i wish i could move back to Arizona. After 20 years back in Germany i really miss your amazing landscape.

Very cool video, guys. I heard about stuff like this, but never knew they actually made enough of it that someone could still lay hands on it and test it in 2019.

Your videos are always interesting and I learn something every time... but, I think this was probably my favorite. I always want to see you shoot those guns.

My uncle actually took part in the testing of this ammo when he was in the Army back in the '60s; he said he liked the idea, but the hit placement was very inconsistent (I've not finished the video, so I'm excited to see if Ian and Karl get similar results.) Thank you guys for presenting this fascinating piece of firearms history!

@wanderer_87

5 жыл бұрын

(Update: It now seems my uncle just wasn't a very good shot 😂)

This is so cool!! I love experimental ammo and what it does!! Do more of these please!

Oh man! Been wanting this for YEARS!

That's why we love InRangeTV!

This would be an excellent for use in a MG3

@patrick8116

5 жыл бұрын

200 yard grapeshot saturation would probably be great in jungle fighting.

@JohnDoe-nf7up

5 жыл бұрын

@SWATreject until you realize it's incredibly expensive because it's old and rare.

@demomanchaos

5 жыл бұрын

@@JohnDoe-nf7up I bet with modern machining and even 3D printing this type of ammo wouldn't be nearly as expensive to make as it was in the 70s.

@JohnDoe-nf7up

5 жыл бұрын

@@demomanchaos it's not really that it's expensive to make its just expensive because there isn't much of it these days.

@JohnDoe-nf7up

5 жыл бұрын

@@demomanchaos the only real extra cost would be a second projectile to pay for which most likely wouldn't add much expense overall.

I load duplex wadcutters in .38 spl and .45-70, and every time I shoot them, I'm still amazed at how well they actually work. Fun to shoot, and always a surprise to onlookers.

This....... This is why i subscribed inRangeTV. Awsome video guys

I had a close friend back in the day who was in the army in Vietnam in the 60's and he actually used an M14 with the duplex round. He said all the troops really liked the round and thought it very effective in combat. He said they would carry mostly the duplex rounds for normal combat ranges but they would carry several mags with normal rounds for engaging targets at farther ranges. He said that suddenly a group of officers appeared while they were in the field and removed all the duplex rounds they had, going so far as to search all the troops to ensure they had not hidden any. He said they were told there was some problem with the duplex rounds violating some arms or humanitarian agreement.

Another great video thanks inrange!!

If memory serves me, back during the Vietnam War, the “American Rifleman” magazine had an article on this ammunition which included tests like you just did. At that time the Army still had mostly M14s and described how a patrol would carry one or two mags of ball and several of duplex ball in case of a firefight/ambush. Interesting how this philosophy is trending now with handguns capable of .410 shotgun rounds with multiple projectiles.

Love you guys! Love the content! Keep up the amazing work!

It's videos like this that make me feel like I've put my money to good use. I will directly support this project until the end

In-range; asking the questions that I'm too uninformed to even realize you could ask...

@BattlesuitExcalibur

5 жыл бұрын

That's what its all about: getting those known unknowns and UNKNOWN unknowns.

This was a fascinating vid. Never though Duplex stuff had merit. Damn that's cool.

This is AWESOME!!! I've always wanted to see Duplex rounds fired. Project SALVO was a very interesting take on improving hit probability. Yes hindsight is 20/20 and it seems like a foolish concept nowadays. However try and put yourself in their shoes back when it was being developed. Great job getting ahold of some of those rounds. Always enjoy seeing you guys test various things. Keep up the good work!!!

So happy they did a video on this!

This is a really cool video. I've already wondered about this ammos capabilities. I assumed since it was never really adopted it wasn't too impressive.

I read in a book about SOG operations in Vietnam that a few SOG members used this ammunition in a suppressed M21 at night with a star scope. With the objective of closer range shooting. Makes perfect sense as those star scopes gave you a very vague sight picture so that combined with duplex ammunition makes sense.

Ian and Karl, we started weapons training with the M4 in week 5 in basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. I was OSUT Military Police. There was not that much time, maybe less than two-three weeks before we qualified for record. In that time, we went from not knowing anything to having to hit 23/40 targets to proceed in basic. If you failed, then you got kicked out or recycled. The other weapons, M240, M249, and M9 were all after that initial M4 training.

Most interesting video you've had on here in a while

Another great video that educates as well as entertains. Thanks 👊🏻😀

Fascinating! Thanks for the video

Finally some non match content

@hirosstorageunit

5 жыл бұрын

Must add that it is outstanding.

One use I can recall from back in 'Nam was in a sniper team. The shooter had a model 70 and the spotter had an M14E2, i.e. with selector switch and pistol-grip stock with bipod, and I vaguely recall the base rifle was scoped and either National Match or otherwise accurized, but cannot recall for sure any more. The spotter carried 8 magazines: one of M118 match and seven of duplex in case they got busted.

Love the dialogue flow, guys.

Still gotta love the goddamn spongebob duct tape

Badass. Great video guys

Super cool would like even farther shots. You guys are awesome

You should get with Taofledermaus and have him get some slow-motion video of these rounds.

Ian, I want your G3... a lot, that thing is amazing

Y’all are so cute, I like how you both know exactly what your gonna say but act like you don’t. It’s amazingz

Excellent content guys keep up the great work 👍

great video guys, thank you

Would have loved it if youtube put this in my subscriptions where it should be.

Very cool to see the real world performance of this cartridge.

Outstanding content guys!

hey, you guys gonna check out 9x39?

@DougsDiggers

5 жыл бұрын

I'm just excited that it's finally here. I'd love CMMG to jump on it and give us an integrally suppressed mutant in 9x39.

love these engineering videos

Yessssss!!!!!! You guys are the best!

As long as one of the bullets is going to point of aim, I actually would want this in my inventory. I can see it being very useful for a more sustained fire weapon.

This is why I support you on Patron.

It is always interesting to see something of the past that is actually potentially better than what we currently have, or does something we can't currently do, but no longer exists for one reason or another. It's a reminder of what goes into success. It isn't enough to just be able to make it. It's gotta be able to be made cheaply. I wonder if anyone would be able to do that even today.

that g3 is looking amazing

Salvo ammo AND snarky Karl is back? BRING MY POPCORN!

Loved the vid guys

My understanding is that this stuff was issued as machine gun ammunition as the weight saving with 5.56 meant that it was more effective for an infantryman to carry larger quantities of that than stick with a full power rifle.

Duplex also introduced risk of catastrophic failure. If your powder loading density wasn't high enough, the seating of the projectiles into the cartridge could cause the rear bullet to recede into the powder bed. When fired, there would be a lot of combustion gases between the bullets, to the point that rear bullet gets stuck in bore. Follow up shot could blow the gun up. Such a failure occured with the M198's, and later with Colt's 5.56 duplex ACR candidate. This risk was eliminated by x-raying the cartridges after assembly as a form of quality control. But that step substantially increased cost of production.

IIRC this ammunition was issued on a limited basis to special forces snipers issued M21s for self defense if they got caught outnumbered on exfiltration since it would allow the sniper to fire rapidly at close range in the way you demonstrated. Of course his spotter would be armed with an m16 or xm177 but this ammunition was considered a force multiplier for sure. I believe I read this information in one of John L Plaster's books. Great video however really wish you guys had done some ballistic gel tests too with the ammo and possibly compared it to m80 ball out of the same rifle and m193 out of a 20" barreled rifle to simulate the m16. Maybe that can be a future video.

I remember an answer in the American Rifleman Q&A that said this ammunition was designed for "Puff the Magic Dragon" missions in the mini-guns. I believe I read that in the early 70s.

Ballistic gelatine test for those projectiles can be found on KZread with the title: 7.62x51mm M198 DUPLEX versus Ballistic Gelatin

This channel is the best

I'd guess it is cheaper to build 2 or 3 round burst into the gun rather than into the Ammo. Another aspect is the use of 7.62 had moved to either marksman / sniper use or machine gun service. 5.56 just did not have the projectile weight budget to allow this to work in the M16. This idea goes back to the old "buck and ball" loads of the black powder shoothbore era. Thanks for hunting up some more rare Ammo for us to see.

Very interesting. Thank you.

I believe a channel called brass fetcher did a duplex round through ballistics gel with 5.56 and 7.62

A great topic - forgotten rounds on InRange :)

The OG double tap ....much respect

this is brilliant really

My step grandfather used this round in Nam on the range

i see a loop hole in 3gun matches now with this stuff.