You don’t need to justify the buying of a M1 Garand to us.

@SgtKOnyx

4 жыл бұрын

Haha they both bought an M1 years ago, if I understand correctly. They shot the Independence rifle match a few years ago with at least 1

I'd actually be curious to have just the one plate with a 45 angle.

@Jacob-un3ql

4 жыл бұрын

I'd also love to see this!

@wingracer1614

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed except I'd like to see it in stages. Can it still penetrate at 15 degrees? How about 30? I suspect 45 would just bounce but if not, how about 60?

@zedoktor979

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah it wouldn't make it. Effective thickness at 45 degrees would be around .53"

@ludaMerlin69

4 жыл бұрын

@@zedoktor979 angle is more than just effective thickness

@browncoat697

4 жыл бұрын

@@ludaMerlin69 Yes, but effective thickness does matter. 60 degree angle would mean double thickness, so that's fun

I am now very interested In seeing someone spear an armor plate with a Garand. Thanks, guys.

@jonesy19691

4 жыл бұрын

That would be something to see!😁

@moosemaimer

4 жыл бұрын

Garand Thumb might do it, he likes spiking rifles into stuff

@whyjay9959

4 жыл бұрын

You just need to shoot it out of a powerful-enough coilgun.

@wingracer1614

4 жыл бұрын

@@whyjay9959 Or a really big cannon with an appropriately shaped sabot.

@dreamingflurry2729

4 жыл бұрын

No...use crappy (relatively speaking - in comparison to the M1) Mosin for that :D

Having the second plate spaced behind for a third shot would have been interesting.

@djowen5192

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@adamh9776

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@zbm-2375

4 жыл бұрын

Spaced armor exists, although it seems to have fallen out of favor compared to composite armor varieties.

@Mr79dream

4 жыл бұрын

@@zbm-2375 It's still used on the Leopard 2 The main hull has a smal gap between the outer steel plates and the start of the composit material. Also the angled front Armor of the A5 and up versions are just a few layers of steel plates in steeper angles.

@petesheppard1709

4 жыл бұрын

@@zbm-2375 True, My comment was from simple curiosity about what sort of dent the penetrator would have had, given a bit of offset removing mutual support between the plates

I need to see this tried with a single 1/2 inch plate, then a 5/8 plate and finally a 3/4 plate. The problem with stacking plates like this the second plate can absorb some energy simply by being a _separate_ plate. Even if they're bolted together. Your target supplier doesn't offer them? Just call around to your local specialty metal shop with a laser and have them cut what you want out of AR500. Where I used to work (in Portland OR) we cut AR500 in those thicknesses every day.

@williamflowers9435

4 жыл бұрын

tarmaque See if you can get some extra plates at various thickness and send them to Karl... I’m sure they could buy whatever but I think their budget only goes so far. If I win the lottery, I plan to make a lot of people happy... including an unlimited budget for Ian and Karl

Aw you didn't load one round into an en bloc for the ping, missed opportunity!

The intro was hilarious

I thought: "Wow, I missed an M1 DUST TEST!" Then, I discovered that they have not posted it yet. STAY TUNED!

A thing of note why the single plate gets penetrated ways easier is the clearly visible chipping of the plate on the back side. so with the single plate once the backside starts breaking away, there is almost no more resistance to the core and the thickness of the armour that really has to get deformed and pushed out of the way is significantly smaller. A second plate right behind the first one gives a backstop to the material under stress so it won't break and needs to be pushed to the side as well. hence less energy to impact the second plate.

Don't forget the fact that it's two different plates. That may have an effect as well, compared to a homogeneous block of steel of equal thickness.

@FirstDagger

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly that is why even on vehicles such as tanks by having a small air pocket and two armor plates you change the entire layout and function of the armor.

@UselessZero

4 жыл бұрын

Spaced armor is a thing (mostly on vehicles, though). So maybe this test is a up to something interesting.

@pekkamakela2566

4 жыл бұрын

@@UselessZero spaced armor needs the space to work. Laminated armor is weaker than same thickness of homogenius armor.

@jameshealy4594

4 жыл бұрын

@@pekkamakela2566 I'm guessing from your name that English isn't your first language, no offence intended but that is the greatest spelling of homogeneous that I have ever seen. :D

Would love to see what difference 3x 1/8" plates would have made. Because there is the lamination issue.

Love the content, can't wait for more!

Specifically noting that the majority of the Kinetic Energy is lost penetrating the first plate, while the second plate supports it. It’s not soo much about the rating of the armour as much as the support that’s behind it. The second plate was supporting the impact point stoping the additionally larger whole. Tl:dr having stuff in between your armour is import. (Aka composite armour) Also for anyone interested mythbusters did something similar with phone books and sheet metal.

@moosemaimer

4 жыл бұрын

I remember learning about one-way bulletproof glass a number of years ago... it was made by facing a sheet of polycarbonate with a layer of super-hard tempered glass. In one direction, a bullet would impact the glass, lose its energy shattering it, and the polycarbonate would deform and capture the fragments; in the other direction the bullet would pierce clean through the polycarbonate and then blow the glass fragments away easily.

Loved the serious intro. Keep up the nice work

Thanks for this type of content - the single plate shot at the end was a great idea 👍

Glad to see your AP test

I love the armour tests as well as everything else

You two manage to make the most interesting gun videos on YT. I am proudly a supporter of both.

@InrangeTv

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Just put rgb lights on your gun, the bullets will shoot way faster

@SangTheCryptek

4 жыл бұрын

Wen will deez humies lern dat da red wunz shoot fasta?!

@VeraTR909

4 жыл бұрын

@@alecnolastname4362 Also: Racing stripes *(maybe name it the "M1 Garand Turbo X2000"?)

@bobojo37

4 жыл бұрын

I love when the PC gaming world overlaps with the firearms hobbyist world.

@Taistelukalkkuna

4 жыл бұрын

@@SangTheCryptek But dat gun iz no propa dakka, dem needz use dat thingy "Aiming."

@SangTheCryptek

4 жыл бұрын

@@Taistelukalkkuna Oi yer roight, deez grotz needa propa lessun frum da shoota boyz. MOAR DAKKA!! WAAAAGGGGHH!!!

That was excellent. The side by side comparison of the armor performance was exactly what I wanted to know.

Very interesting! Thanks for putting the video up.

Awesome results, guys.

Interesting. Clear example over overmatch ratio in practice in this test. For those who are unaware, overmatch ratio is the reduction in penetration as a the plate the projectile hits gets thicker relative to the projectiles diameter. In more practical terms it more or less accounts for how much extra energy a projectile expends trying to compress/spread apart a larger column of material.

Did the same test with a 6 inch longer barrel in .300 RUM... using two AR-500 plates and ran into the same outcomes with the M2 AP projectiles. When testing vs. 3/4" AR-500 the M2 AP would almost make it through and this may have been due to the properties of the core and place or date of manufacture. Other 150 gr. AP made it through both target arrays. In other words the projectiles that failed were apparently due to core break-up and not lack of energy! The 150gr. loadings were tested up to ~ 4,150 fps and the M2's up to ~ 3,900 fps. Most of the rounds tested that managed to completely penetrate the 3/4" AR500 only were able to travel 2 - 4" into a wooden backup block. There was one exception during the tests which involved an 8mm steel jacketed steel core AP (probably German WW-2) which was turned down to .308 and had a subsequent weight of ~ 165 grains... that apparently maintained it's integrity and blew a spall from the back of the plate that was roughly .750" in diameter! The core continued through two 6" thick wooden capture blocks and then powdered both sides of a concrete block with 1.5" wall thickness and disappeared into an 18" oak tree trunk! I'm fairly sure that it would have made it through a 1" thick AR500 plate given the cloud of dust that had been a concrete block after passing through a foot of wood and the ,75" AR plate... again, especially given that it was just a very good steel core AP! For some perspective on this... with the exception of the .50 SLAP rounds, none of the other rounds tested by the various channels on U-tube were able to defeat the .750" AR-500 plates, even at very close range! P.S.: In the tests noted at the beginning of the comment using the two AR500 plates, the plate thickness was 1/2" and not 3/8". as was the case in your tests involving the 30-06!

This was a great video guys thanks for making my lunch better.

Next on InRangeTV, Ian and Karl demonstrate the effects of a blunderbuss on range cicada's.

Loved the copper igniting. Great film. That was the green sparkles for those who want to look out for it.

The slow motion appears to show the AP core from the first round bounce back out the hole in the first plate.

There's also a difference between having a 3/4" inch single plate, and having 2 3/8" plates stacked in terms of perforation. Pretty darn neat.

Am I alone in thinking a constant plate at the same thickness would behave differently? I mean its face hardened right?

@stanhilt1912

4 жыл бұрын

Nope, AR500 is a thru-hardened steel, meaning it is the same hardness throughout the whole piece of steel. A face hardened piece of steel wouldn't be very bullet resistant. placing the two plates against eachother shouldn't be a whole lot different than a homogenous plate of equal thickness

@prometheussmithksu

4 жыл бұрын

@@stanhilt1912 That'd be true if they were machined smooth and actually touching completely, but two plates of steel just held together with a clamp won't transfer the forces through the gap evenly like they can through a monolithic block of steel. I would hypothesize that two plates of X thickness are way tougher than a single plate of 2X thickness.

@pekkamakela2566

4 жыл бұрын

@@stanhilt1912 what do you mean with saying face hardened isnt good at bullet stopping? Many countries used face hardened steel on tanks, like germans. All battleship armor was facehardened after the end 19th century.

@stanhilt1912

4 жыл бұрын

@@prometheussmithksu I think it may be slightly tougher than 1 plate but not by a wole lot. the fact that the hole on the backside of plate 1 does not show any kind of stretching or deformation of the material, but just a hole, may be an indication that the force of the round has been transferred efficiently to plate 2

@stanhilt1912

4 жыл бұрын

@@LeutnantJoker Ususally spaced armor needs a whole lot more room between the plates, it is specifically designed to let a projectile disintegrate and disperce its energy after the first impact.

This definitely gives you an idea as to why spaced armor is so effective.

Thanks to the chieftain we already know the anti tank potential of the M1 rifle.

GREAT VIDEO .

Spaced and/or layered armor has been A Thing for a long time now; this is a great, visual example of why.

Ballistic gel at the back of the plate would also be some intresting research, would it tumble or still have enough energy to punch threw a block, but never the less great video

The US provided approx. 188 thousand M-1 Garands to Greece, along with accessories and ammo & producing equipment. Some of the best, most accurate and cleanest 9mm ammo I've ever used was Greek-made Olympic. Used to buy it 1000rd case for $105 shipped to my door.

I've done some die maker work. In shearing steel, I recall that given thickness of steel shears when it has sheared through 57% (if memory serves ) of its thickness. I suspect punching through plates follows a similar pattern. Once you're a little over half way through, you've sheared the remainder in the process.

That intro got a proper chuckle from me. The AP Garand project was deemed too expensive so it never made it to production. Ian should have known! ;-)

Homogenous armour gets exponentially more effective as the thickness increases.

One further thing I'd like to point out about AP testing that I know from my ventures into naval military history, two separate plates of armor, even when tied together by riveting, welding, or bolts as you've done, are actually less effective than one solid plate of equal thickness. So technically, you're not quite getting the same effect as an actual 3/4" armor plate would have, but in this case it wasn't enough to matter. It's just something I thought I'd mention given your interest in things like angle, thickness, number of plates, and so on.

@prometheussmithksu

4 жыл бұрын

Here I was thinking that they'd actually be more effective, since the force that penetrates the steel is a product of speed and the size of the contact between the plates and penetrator. I'd like to see .308 AP against both 1/2 inch AR500 and two 1/4 AR500 plates, to see if the first plate can have enough of an effect on the penetrator that it becomes unable to penetrate the second plate.

I like how InRange doesn't do trailers, but instead offers itty-bitty hints in other videos, such as: There is a Garand dust test somewhere in the video queue. Hopefully it does better than the M1A from three or four years ago...

Love when you two are together. 👍 -proud Patreon supporter since 2017 Edit: I just looked at my Patreon acct.- update -Proud Patreon supporter since sept. 2015. 👍 Can’t believe it’s been that long.

I'm guessing this is kinda the same "tearout" thing that you get when drilling wood. If you put another plank under the piece you're drilling into, you get much less tearing on the exit of the drill bit, here as the plate were bolted together, the tearout you'd normally get with a single plate didn't happen so it was extra hard to shove the jacket through with the core. So you end up with the jacket left behind and the core alone doesn't have enough momentum to damage the second plate. I'd have loved to see the same shot but only with the plates spaced like a centimeter apart.

Great video. Would have been interested to see another shot with the two plates seperated.

This is an old video i just rewatched out of curiosity, and a thought just ran through my head. If you get a plate around 60% the thickness of that place and put them back to back like they did here. It’ll be 20% thicker, but it would be more effective in stopping the round than just a thicker plate of the same thickness(as the 2 thinner ones) by itself.

Nice to see you guys break the M1 back out.

more of this please

I have a 155mm projo I used for a target untill I hit it dead center and was hit in the stomach with 30-06 AP, i found the hot core on the ground. My flat plates are always at an angle now. I also shot an M2 bradley 3/4" armour plate with my breechloading black powder 40mm cannon & a WW2 A.P. projo, it punched a spall out the back but bounced off, it's only 2 oz of powder. I found this projo on the ground also😊

Some years ago our club had a boat biulder visit an ask if we would do some test penetration on stacked aluminium plates of various thickness and varied gaps between the plates . We used members rifles in lots of different cals . Was interesting to see the lack of penetration on some of the stacks .

Where is my 8mm Mauser AP test????

More ap tests, and more M1 garand please and thanks!

M2AP 30-06 is the literal definition of vibe check for cartridges 😂

Very interesting. Thanks

The question is would it go in deeper if it hit a solid plate of the combined thickness of the two.

I wish someone would hand load these bullets into 300 Win Mag or better still 300-378 Weatherby Mag.

@Tzarkaan

4 жыл бұрын

John Parrish Someone made a garand in .458 in the early 00's.

@stevencali3539

4 жыл бұрын

@@Tzarkaan he's talking about the black tip bullet, not the Garand.

@prometheussmithksu

4 жыл бұрын

Seriously though, why smash armor plates at 2800 fps when you can do it at 3800 fps? I need this video.

@ditto1958

4 жыл бұрын

Darn I was thinking the same thing Loading those projectiles in a 300 win mag would be an awesome idea

@TheNkp08

4 жыл бұрын

That and a "hot"/commercial 30-06 loading. 3000 fps should easily be done safely in 06.

Now I wonder if there is a difference between using a single 3/4'' and two 3/8''. Because there could splatter some metal between the plates and thus lose umpf.

Very cool guys! Thanks :)

Have you thought about placing an impact medium next to and perpendicular to the plate to look at the difference in spall/shrapnel paterns between AP and regular ammo?

I just found 500 rounds 30-06 of fmj and 24 rounds of these...what a great day

My real takeaway here is all the fun you can have with an M1

please say" just the tip"more---your biggest fan

I’ve shot at 3/4” stainless steel with 30-06 AP and it didn’t go all the way through, but did leave a good bump on the back side.

I really wanted to see them throw an M1 at the plate...

On the second shot (AP) when the shot did not go through, was there indication of metal spalling on the back side of the 2nd plate? Spalling frequently occurs on the inside of armor even without penetration...and injury to those on the backside of the armor. Spalling: small pieces of metal detaching on the opposite side of metal/armor hit on one side by high energy projectiles that do not penetrate through the metal. Thanks for the tests and videos.

With plates behind a first target I had similar experienced. I fired with a .223 at 109yd on a 3.5" HDD, standing in front of a steel brick. The bullet did not pass through the top of the HDD and left no mark on the brick. A shot on the HDD alone ofcourse passed and a shot on the naked steel brick left a 5mm deep crater. So never underestimate the power of layers!

@scoireamerica1609

4 жыл бұрын

About 30 years ago a friend fired some issue ammo he squirreled away while on station, 5.56. I watched him fire a few rounds through the boom of an old crane, the steel was one inch thick, it penetrated like a drill bit.

IT would be interesting to see what happens when there is some space between the plate with some kind of soft medium between them. You used to hear about AP rounds bouncing around inside troop carriers after they were hit.

This is a great example of why people need to do more than just through some physics equations around to explain armor. Force and Kinetic energy are relevant, but there are so many more amazing variables involved that just don't get explained much at all unless you become a very special kind of engineer. If they had shot a single plate of 3/4ths inch-thickness, for example, you get a very different result as well.

Data is like a bikini, what it reveals is exciting but what it conceals is crucial!

@m1a2abrams52

4 жыл бұрын

Underrated

@hyrumcannon3789

4 жыл бұрын

@@m1a2abrams52 massively

Ah, was looking forward to the bullet used to test NIJ level 4 armor. Though it was a little slower than the one called for there(887 m/s) which I think represents the worst you can expect(well, worst as the one being shot at) rather than a typical shot.

Forgive me if this has been brought up previously, but do you think the extra velocity from a long barreled bolt gun like a P17 would have given the penetrator a better chance to go through both?

Matt at Demolition Ranch has done this a lot and he often uses different angles and a lot of different calibers. Doing a collaboration with him would be awesome plus him maybe joining a 2 gun match

Thanks for the video! What kind of steel is the core made of?

I would be interested in seeing what that AP ammo does against the steel if impacting at 45 degrees.

What about trying a 30-06 velocitor type round with a sabot 5.56 green tip or AP bullet? Would going that much faster punch through?

A second plate took minimal damage. How would a soft level IIIa panel fare behind the plate, vs. the black tip? Would the plate eat up enough energy for a soft panel to stop it?

Now this was an interesting AP test. Would be interesting to see how it does an a solid 3/4" plate instead of two sandwiched together, I imagine that would change the impact a bit?

@JPOC226

4 жыл бұрын

was going to say the same. The 'gap' even if less than a .1 of a millimeter is still a gap. One solid 3/4 inch plate will react differently than 'spaced armour'

@vincecirivello1385

4 жыл бұрын

The other thing is on a microscopic level, I don't know if the metallic structure of the second plate not getting any energy from the initial impact and only being impacted by the core exiting the first plate changes how it would react. I would think that laminated armor would be better. 3/4" plywood is stronger than a dimensional piece of lumber of equal density.

Another couple of things that have been tried are spaced armor, and composite (steel plus ceramic/glass). Of course, I'm almost certain that anything less than .50BMG won't merit specialized armor construction like that. But playing around with various armor constructions is quite informative and useful. Even if most of the results end up being easier to apply to vehicular armor instead of infantry, you never know. Someone might want to up-armor their minivan.

What would the result be with pulling the AP projectiles from the M2AP and loading them into .300 winmag?

Very interesting result. I can't help but wonder if there would have been more penetration if you had used a single 3/4" plate. Perhaps you can try that in the future, if you get your hands on a plate that thick :) Also, there is another test that I would love to see regarding these armor-piercing rounds. I would love to see you put a soft-armor insert behind one of these plates, to see if it would be able to stop the round/plate fragments after it passed through a standard 1/4" AR500 plate. I think passing through a 1/4" plate would cause the velocity to drop enough for the soft insert to catch everything. I think that would be an interesting test, and very helpful for anyone who is concerned about their armor being defeated by armor-piercing rounds.

A homogenous plate would most likely yielded a different result. The laminate effect relieves the projectile of its mass, leaving only the penetrator. The tip sheds kinetic energy without the mass to drive it. Tested a lot of plate anti-vandal systems for pipelines and power transformers back in the '80s.

I wonder if a soft armor/rated trauma pad (something IIA rated) behind the level IV would be enough to stop a shot after being slowed down by the first layer.

That's cool.

The Ammo Channel did this a long time ago, 8 years... he had a bunch of black tip 30 06 AP. And just recently I saw someone had some WWII German AP rounds. Couple different kinds. You know what... these go through some amazing things except are stopped by newer body armor. I'll tell you what, I don't care if it doesn't penetrate the best, I'd still very, very, very much hate to get hit in the chest with a 30 caliber round. Could you just imagine the shock you'd experience??? Yeah, take awhile to shake that off!!!

Was there any spalling off the back of the second plate?

You mentioned these were 'hardened' armor. Just to be clear are they face-hardened or hardened throughout?

I am curious if the result would be any different with 1x 3/4in plate, rather than 2x 3/8in plates stacked together.

It looked like the shot into the single plate resulted in some spalling on the back surface, which would have helped the core blow through. With the back of the first plate supported by the second, I wonder if the result was less spalling and so more resistance to the core as it exited the first plate. IIRC, the idea that two plates with the same total thickness as a single plate being less effective relates to plates with a gap between them. And as others have noted, the way in which the plates are hardened can make a difference--for example, a face-hardened but brittle plate designed to shatter a projectile on impact versus a softer but tougher plate designed to stop the progress of a projectile before it penetrates completely.

What year are the 30-06 AP rounds used please?

so what happens where there is a 5 cm gap between the plates?

"Greek HXP M2 30.06 152GR FMJ Ball " Damn that's a mouthful

"Are those level 4 plates, Mister ATF man?"

You should change angles in 15 degrees or so increments. That way you transition through a range of effective thicknesses all the way to maybe 60 degrees where the effective thickness is double the perpendicular measurement.

Thicc plates prevent grim fates.

Wonder what the result would be with a thinner second plate?

I kept thinking what would've happened if you put the 2nd plate like an inch behind the 1st one. If there would've been any difference to 2nd plate penetration, or lack there of.

Honestly think the 2 plates are more effective than 1 plate of the same thickness.

Could another factor in the bigger exit hole be the plate having more freedom to flex as it's hit?

@SgtKOnyx

4 жыл бұрын

Potentially

It would be interesting to see an armor test where you vary the impact angle. At what angle does a particular AP round fail to penetrate. For example start at 90 degrees,, then 85, 75, 65 etc. until you get a deflection.

Hi. Demonstrates the AP action, armour angle etc. Reminds me of explosive rounds ( hesh. )

This is why laminate armor is a thing. Its not the same as testing 3/4 inch plate. There are dynamics taking place between the 2 plates.