This one is extra Forgotten™

@gecko5518

3 жыл бұрын

Forgotten^2 weapon

@jeremyfeldmann7969

3 жыл бұрын

He still found it

@novaterra973

3 жыл бұрын

Surviving example but without a name, so basically a reverse Hellriegel.

@aborted4196

3 жыл бұрын

Extra forgotten weapon™

@landastudiofilmsandclips.5387

2 жыл бұрын

Truly forgotten

"This knob in particular very much reminds me of a Johnson"

@Daniel-Weaver

3 жыл бұрын

That's what she said.

@beareble-lion4446

3 жыл бұрын

@@Daniel-Weaver that's my last name give it back.

@magenlin

Жыл бұрын

@@beareble-lion4446 bro did you just dox yourself

So, you’re saying it was Johnson, in the Winchester toolroom, with a shotgun action.

@TheWolfsnack

3 жыл бұрын

nice

@AxeGaijin

3 жыл бұрын

That comment got a genuine LOL out of me :)

@avanticurecanti9998

3 жыл бұрын

I was the 223rd like.

@TheRevoltingMan

3 жыл бұрын

Nice!

@notgraham.7215

3 жыл бұрын

Damn I was way off. I had colonel mustard, in the library, with 2 German engineers

The Olive Drab Green definitely gives a 1950s US Army vibe. “What nifty new thing can we do with our existing parts and tooling” too.

@LUR1FAX

3 жыл бұрын

Olive drab > Flat dark earth

@irwintorres220

3 жыл бұрын

@@LUR1FAX Absolutely!

@taylenseeley6188

3 жыл бұрын

Looks like an FAL had a child with an M16 but wanted to be different, and tbh I kinda want one.

@Misericorde9

3 жыл бұрын

The impression I get is of someone attempting to come up with a new military rifle that would hit the lowest bidder sweet spot by piggybacking off of products already produced in large quantities for the civilian market.

@taylenseeley6188

3 жыл бұрын

@@Misericorde9 I entirely agree lol

Honesty of ignorance is one of the professional's finest qualities.

@bravo0105

3 жыл бұрын

...and quite rare, unfortunately.

@leoarc1061

3 жыл бұрын

@@bravo0105 Modesty is getting depleted by the day.

@FumbleSquid

3 жыл бұрын

@@bravo0105 Tbf it's common for people who remain in academia to not speak out when they don't know something. Often the people you see who claim to be experts in a field (the types that go on talk shows, media tours, write books for laymen, run social media accounts, write 'news' articles etc) aren't actually active in their field or don't even have a relevant degree in the subject matter.

@sttonep242

3 жыл бұрын

True

@sdlabs

3 жыл бұрын

Whatever your job, learning how to fail gracefully will save a lot of money, nerves and even jobs. Know when you're in over your head, playing a hero only makes a mess.

Winchester: “Here Johnson, is a big bucket of various gun parts. See if you can make a working firearm out of them.” Johnson: “Ok, I’ll see what I can do.”

You know it's a forgotten weapon when even Ian doesn't know anything about it!

"I got it one piece at a time, and didn't cost me a dime" That's what this kinda reminds me of...

@PassiveDestroyer

3 жыл бұрын

@Jason Phelan Well it's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56, '57, '58, '59 shotgun or rifle!

@MediumRareOpinions

3 жыл бұрын

Used only once in Reno, the builder was not available for comment as hes stuck in Folsom prison.

@jonpayne4931

3 жыл бұрын

A lunch pail rifle. That's a new one on me.

Gun Jesus on mysterious Winchester rifle: "That's a something."

@alkestos

3 жыл бұрын

He ain't wrong though. Hehe

@Hardwarebeer

3 жыл бұрын

"And lo, something it was."

I like the idea that the Winchester guys had a great sense of humor. Sitting around having a few beers and saying hey what if we did a rifle out of shotgun parts. I think that part you’re on something. Really enjoyed your video sir. Well done.

@wierdalien1

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha shotgun go brrrrrrtttt

@bongobrandy6297

3 жыл бұрын

My brother in law had a pump action rifle chambered in .243 Winchester. It was supposed to be a terrific accurate and reliable deer rifle. I forget which company made it.

@cs-rj8ru

3 жыл бұрын

So I guess...Remington was a little better at handling their beer?

@ragnarragnarsson3128

3 жыл бұрын

@@psychoaiko666 and the 760 that came before it.

@ragnarragnarsson3128

3 жыл бұрын

@@psychoaiko666 aren't we all? 😆 The 14, 14A, and 141 models from Remington are no slouches either...

When you’re out in the wastes, picking through the ruins of the Winchester plant and you finally open that Master-level lock in the bombed-out basement. The rifle screams game developer kit-bash. Kinda neat to see that everyone tries to reuse assets.

@The_Modeling_Underdog

3 жыл бұрын

Lockpicking Lawyer: "There's no 'finally' in opening a Master Lock."

@MediumRareOpinions

3 жыл бұрын

And using Bethesda Logic, it has the Legendary 2 shot modifier, turning regular ammunition into Duplex ammunition as if by magic.

@andrewc9929

3 жыл бұрын

@@MediumRareOpinions Ah yes. The "the game is now trivially easy" modifier. I know it well.

@bakedbeans7879

Жыл бұрын

It's kinda like the real world version of the Fallout combat rifle in that it's put together from a bunch of shotgun parts.

Looks like a fal and a bar had a baby.

@bigblue6917

3 жыл бұрын

My thoughts as well

@jeremak

3 жыл бұрын

Drawn by baby.

@Gingercattleman

3 жыл бұрын

Looks like a BAR dbm version 0.0

@DoitForTheLolz1

3 жыл бұрын

@@jeremak Me when I draw a FAL from memory.

@sumvs5992

3 жыл бұрын

144p FAL

CLUES -The trigger group/guard is off a Model 120/1200 (placing this rifle 1963 or later!) -The bolt looks like an adapted 1200 humpback bolt but the bottom is VERY different -none of the visible components bear resemblance to the model 100 autoloader (1961) hope this helps

Gun Jesus examines an Imperial Guard Autogun prototype

@Excaliburumbra801

3 жыл бұрын

But Gun Jesus is Brandon

@corentinnaisse5350

3 жыл бұрын

Put a winged skull on the receiver and you're good to go.

@utubrGaming

3 жыл бұрын

The reason this thing is rejected and no records exist anymore is because the toaster-fuckers forgot the incense and oil to calm the machine-spirit, and everybody else assumed that this thing was possessed by the ruinous powers.

@johngulyas4334

3 жыл бұрын

The Emperor Protects

@Excaliburumbra801

3 жыл бұрын

@Stupid Bitch oh! Oke

Hole next to trigger unit is the hole for the action release on a pump.

@nickbelanger5225

3 жыл бұрын

That's what I was thinking too

“The deep end of goofy ideas”. Yep, I’m stealing that line.

@ryanvargas4889

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve been there. Just didn’t know what it was called.

@Hawk1966

3 жыл бұрын

That's the story of my freaking life in six words. 🤣😶👁️

@Anseliatore

3 жыл бұрын

Every line you steal supports the communists. Buy some for 2,99$ and be a true patriot.

@thomasa5619

3 жыл бұрын

I’m using that line at work

I actually really like the idea of utilizing the shotgun systems, that’s interesting.

@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu

3 жыл бұрын

Remington Model 8 &81vs. Remington Model 11

@EzraeL91

3 жыл бұрын

try Benelli Mr1

@shawnc1936

3 жыл бұрын

@@EzraeL91 I like the idea of the systems being used, not a rifle that handles like a shotgun.

@EzraeL91

3 жыл бұрын

@@shawnc1936 Benelli Mr1 uses the same system of all Benelli semi-auto firearms, the argo system, and it's present also on their shotguns (actually was made for them).

@shawnc1936

3 жыл бұрын

@@EzraeL91 I know. But it’s like shooting a shotgun. Ergonomics and everything. Don’t enjoy that for a rifle. I just mean utilizing the trigger group and action in a normal ergonomics rifle would be cool.

How many gunsmiths are watching this, then looking at their parts bins and saying 'hmmm . . . I wonder'?

@cs-rj8ru

3 жыл бұрын

That era passed 50-60 years ago. Those smiths are busy now looking for the swimming pool in the nursing home.

@d3734

3 жыл бұрын

@@cs-rj8ru Good, people have better things to do, like building AR's in every caliber under the sun. There ain't a shortage of modern gunsmiths.

@therideneverends1697

3 жыл бұрын

@@cs-rj8ru What are you talking about? we are in a new renaissance of home brew

@charlesentrekin6607

3 жыл бұрын

@@cs-rj8ru and not all us have retired, you young wippersnapper.

@JaggedEmpire1

3 жыл бұрын

All it takes is one dude looking at grandpa's Winchester Model 50, access to a case of beer, and access to bar stock and machinery.

They removed the shoulder thing that goes up I see

@Oblithian

3 жыл бұрын

I can, with 85% certainty, confirm: green

Almost reminds me of a proto- "BAR" (the semi-auto sporting rifle, not the WW1 machine gun)

@crosshp9266

3 жыл бұрын

@Stupid Bitch yes there is. BAR hunting rifle semi auto only with 5 round magazine. Very popular Boar hunting gun in japan

@andrew506

3 жыл бұрын

Thats what I thought too

@Celebmacil

3 жыл бұрын

Like an FN FNAR more like, but... that's basically saying the same thing, I guess.

@robertnettles7136

3 жыл бұрын

It honestly looks more like a Remington 742/7400. The 740 and 742 were introduced in the 50s but the 740 was actually designed in the late 30s but War Were Declared and the project was shelved until the late 40s. I'm wondering if Winchester is looking for over at Remington and said "Hey Melvin, see if you can build something like that that maybe we can market as a cheaper option for countries wanting a .308."

@ScottKenny1978

3 жыл бұрын

@Stupid Bitch yep. The sporting rifle is technically the BAR mark 2.

Just as I was typing that the receiver / trigger guard / safety reminded me of my old Winchester 1400, Ian mentioned it.

@warrenhapke2091

3 жыл бұрын

I've never owned a Winchester 1400, but the trigger guard and safety are definitely very similar to fhose of the 1400. The 1400 was introduced in 1964, but was obviously in development before then. It and the slide action 1200 had rotary bolts. David Butler, a Winchester engineer, wrote a book called The American Shotgun that has some information about the development of the 1400.

@funkla65

3 жыл бұрын

Trigger group definitely looks 1200/1400. Empty notch near trigger guard could be opening for the bolt release on a pump action.

I just want to say that I am SO GLAD that Ian exists, and was able to work his way into the position he is in to be able to do the work he does for us. I truly hope he keeps on with this channel for a decade or more to come. Fantastic work sir

Take shotgun parts and make a self-loading rifle? Sounds like the Benelli R1.

@alexmohrmann8825

3 жыл бұрын

Wish they still made them. I have a .300 Win Mag r1 and it is my favorite rifle, super comfortable to shoot and still fairly accurate.

@lawrenceallen8096

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexmohrmann8825 Agree. I have the .338 Win Mag. Its absolutely true: felt recoil like a .30-06. What you do notice is that you're off target more than an -06 for your follow-up shot. But the rifle is terrific. They're still for sale. They've even added calibers to their semi-auto offering: .308, .243, 6.5 Creedmoor. www.benelliusa.com/rifles/big-game-hunting-rifles

@jesper509

3 жыл бұрын

Still for sale in sweden by sako.

Going to guess a Prototype Winchester competitor to the Ar10 after seeing it in the 1950s trials.

@airplanenut89

3 жыл бұрын

Thinking the same thing. Looks like Winchester wanted in on that trial with this but might have been tipped off that the Army BuOrd didn't really care about adopting anything other than their own design.

My reaction was that it was intended as a competition for the M-14 rifle.

@mids9001

3 жыл бұрын

That's my first thought as well, it would fit in the same time period that the army was looking for a new service rifle. Maybe it was made, pitched and the idea never left Johnsons workshop.

@garyfrancis3305

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm kinda getting the same vibe. It kinda has the look of a FAL about it. Which is what everyone else in NATO adopted at the same time the US went down the M-14 road.

@calvingreene90

Жыл бұрын

@@garyfrancis3305 For accuracy I'll take a G3 for General issue a FAL unless I can get a select fire 7.62 Nato FG42.

@calvingreene90

Жыл бұрын

@@thomo66 Given the M-14's development time stealing the stock design and getting production started first is not unreasonable.

Hi Ian, did you get a chance to examine the barrel for rifling? (Assuming that might give a clue to the kind of projectile.)

@morriganmhor5078

3 жыл бұрын

If that is some prototype of the flechette-firing shotgun-esque gun, then it doesn´t have rifling.

The color fits with the 1950s. Greens like that were popular back then, to the point of being humor material today. So it could readily still be civilian.

@AshleyPomeroy

3 жыл бұрын

It's as if they had just learned how to make green plastic that was strong enough for a rifle.

@cherrybomb9130

3 жыл бұрын

@@AshleyPomeroy I think the materials used for the furniture were old polymers at the time similar to Bakelite. If you look at the hollow end of the stock ( 1:47 ) and the light chipping at the hand guard, you’ll see that the furniture has been painted over. Many Americans tend to call this color “Bazooka Green”

@89thaharmaiiioptreshenanig3

3 жыл бұрын

I have a ‘66 G3 hand guard in that kind of color but I like my 50’s wood one better

@cherrybomb9130

3 жыл бұрын

@@89thaharmaiiioptreshenanig3 are we talking Iranian G3 Bakelite furniture or the standard Olive Drab/Forrest Green color?

@skepticalbadger

3 жыл бұрын

It's the same shade as the early AR-15s model 01s.

I didn't know hi-point was doing a sig 550 copy

Maybe an idea for a Winchester entry into the trials for the new service rifle competition that ended with the adoption of the M-14???

@calvingreene90

3 жыл бұрын

That is what it looks like to me.

@dwaneanderson8039

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking that too.

@fathead8933

3 жыл бұрын

There’s a forum I’ll link, dude might be full of shit, but it’s a lot to type out for nonsense. Basically Winchester heads put out a fatwah staying they wanted to beat the Armalite rifle. They wouldn’t get it done at the expense of reliability. So they said “make some rifles out of proven designs in .224”. I think this falls in line with the time frame and the design of the competitor rifle ie must have elevated sights to limit heat mirage, recoil in line with the action, and detachable magazine. My thoughts, this was a competitor trial tool room gun. It was most likely a “well if you’re a little hesitant about this rifle, we have it in a non “sissy” caliber.” People have to remember that this rifle was supposed to equip the entire US military, this was a billion dollar deal when that wasn’t a thing. They would’ve had contingencies for contingencies, just to get a rifle to trials. Which is what I think this is. I think what’s throwing Ian off is the .308. I think this was in .308 because there was major hesitation in moving from .30 caliber. forums.spacebattles.com/threads/winchesters-failed-ar-15-competitor.378096/

@airplanenut89

3 жыл бұрын

Thinking the same and that maybe Winchester was tipped off that Army BuOrd was mainly holding trials for show and they were only interested in their own design.

The best forgotten weapons are the ones Ian doesn't even have a clue about.

On this one i can hear some notes of especial excitement/enthusiasm in Ian’s voice

The "action bar" was also a design component of the Winchester M100, also in .308...

@detritus1976

3 жыл бұрын

My thoughts as well, but I'm pretty sure the M100 is a civilian evolution of the operating system of the WAR. And I'm sure Ian would recognize that. Maybe this is what happens when you ask Melvin Johnson to build a WAR based rifle with mostly OTS parts??

i like how early FW videos post. it's like Ian knows we're all old guys who sleep 4.5 hours a night also: what's an astronaut's favorite key? the Space Bar

@Deadbeatcow

3 жыл бұрын

what timezone do you live in? he posted this at 2am NZT for me

@luanfonseca5179

3 жыл бұрын

@@Deadbeatcow he posted 9 am for me. I live in brazil on the brasilia timezone

"Hey Dave, home office wants us to build more rifles for the three oh eight they are pushing. Any Ideas?" "Well, we got all these shotgun parts... maybe convert a shotgun?" "Excellent! Ask Johnson for help. And make it green."

Damn, Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons just said that the Cody Firearms Museum is the best firearms museum in The Untied States. That's high praise indeed.

The first thing I thought when I looked at it was "that looks like a shotgun receiver"

I saw the shotgun influence right away but thought I was nuts. Thank you, Ian, for also entertaining my madness.

You guys should do a video on the Johnson 5.7mm converted M1 Carbine.

My first though on seeing this was "shotgun" :D really love how it looks. I want one.

This appears to have a trigger group with a bolt-release cutout from a pump-action Winchester Model 1200. When first introduced in 1964, the 1200's trigger guard had a slightly different contour than 1968 examples, which match the mystery prototype. The 1200 had dual action bars, unlike its Model 12 predecessor, which had only one. The bolt on the mystery prototype has a charging handle and tapered tail similar to the Winchester Model 1400 (1964) auto-loader, but with rounder sides.

Love a good mystery. Definitely feels like a “Let’s throw something together, see what works!” type of build. Shame that Winchester just didn’t think to keep any of the paperwork on this.

every development shop I've ever worked in has required engineers and technicians to maintain engineering notebooks. (Typically these were soft bound typing paper sized pages, a lightly printed grid, and numbered pages. The covers have typically been brown. The lawyers would occasionally drop by and check that you were keeping them for patent reasons.) Companies tend to hold on to these, as they are institutional knowledge. They are often organized by engineer and project. They speak specifically to the work the engineer has in front of him, the data he collected, and his thoughts.

Forgotten or truly Unknown Weapon? And your Firearm forensic skills are top tier! I bet 9/10 correct...

"..this will all be guesswork..." The ULTIMATE in Forgotten Weapons! 👍😊👍

"it didn't blow up and that's a something"

My inner 12 year old boy came out when he used "knob" and "Johnson" in the same sentence.

This is the rifle I drew in soldier's hands when I was in grammar school.

The cycling action of this firearm is remarkably similar to the JC Higgins Model 66

it looks like a g3 rifle if you told someone to build it from memory

Me: "Mom, can we have Benelli MR1?" Mom: "We have Benelli MR1 at home." The Benelli MR1 at home:

@nc_classics9767

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I thought. Take a shotgun and try to make it shoot rifle cartridges

The trigger guard is definitly from a Winchester 1200 or 1400, the bolt and action bars are Winchester 1400 style, I believe it is a post 1959 early 1960s design

I think Ian is right on the money here. Not only the color of the furniture, but also the shape hints to military customers. For commercial sales they would probably have just stuck to a traditional stock instead of messing around with a pistol grip, and the venting on the handguard indicates they prepared it for high volume of fire. Also such an extended magazine well indicates a large capacity magazine, which wasn't all that common on commercial rifles in the 1950's. Strangely enough, the Johnsen style rear sight has made a comeback in recent years. As iron sights have given way to optical sights, flip up sights have become more common and variants in the Johnson style are now available and even supplied as standard to both rifles and machineguns.

A .308 rifle based on a shotgun. Now that's scary. Shotguns are way too lightly built to handle rifle cartridges. You wouldn't see me anywhere in the same room when someone pulled the trigger on that thing. There's just huge differences in pressure and bolt thrust and the receiver isn't structured to handle it. It may work for a short while, but sooner or later it's going to let loose. To give you an idea, bolt thrust on a 12 gauge magnum load is somewhere around 4,300 ft/lbs, and a .308 is somewhere around 10,000, and chamber pressure is 11,500 on 12 gauge vs 62,000 on .308. Run. Run far, run fast.

"It's...it's...it's green." Ian's channeling Scotty and Data with this one.

Ian, that gap near the trigger guard looks like where the pump release would be on a pump action

@airplanenut89

3 жыл бұрын

Thought the same thing.

This was definitely a conversion from a pump shotgun, the gap between the stock and the bottom of the receiver near the trigger is almost certainly where they deleted the action bar lock to allow for semi-automatic operation.

That trigger group and receiver sure has Remington 870/1100 written all over it.

@WardenWolf

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, virtually all shotguns follow the same basic shape. The only real exception is the Browning A5 and its various clones.

@americanrepair

3 жыл бұрын

@@WardenWolf Agreed. But cosmetically, it doesn't remind me of a Winchester or Mossberg.

A master at work. Wonderful to watch someone who is both talented and passionate about their craft.

@LD-Orbs

3 жыл бұрын

It is a joy to see!

To me this thing screams “inexpensive military EXPORT”. Maybe something meant to compete against FAL sales in Asia/Africa/South America.

@echodelta2172

3 жыл бұрын

not a bad conclusion, we had multiple projects with that mentality going on at the time.

I absolutely love these videos where you just take us through the deduction process on something that there is just no recorded information on.

Ian should have made an extremely elaborate and believable story about this rifle and released it on April fools. Then at the end of the video just say “lol jk idk anything about this”

@darbyevert828

3 жыл бұрын

Elbonian prototype battle rifle

@tomtruesdale6901

3 жыл бұрын

@@darbyevert828 Needs a better barrel shroud

@HansLasser

3 жыл бұрын

@@darbyevert828 If Elbonian, should the green not be replaced by mud brown?

@darbyevert828

3 жыл бұрын

@@HansLasser obviously this prototype had the incorrect furniture and was sent back to Winchester for improvements but the program was cancelled due to an invasion of stray cats.

ian senses tingled while making tea. seems theyre getting faster and more accurate now hah 2 mins into the video, phone beeps "FW has uploaded" gee you dont say youtube....im only watching it right now

Really cool video. I like getting an insight into your thought process when approaching something you dont have prior knowledge of.

You are correct in your shotgun observations. Winchester during that time frame started making aluminum reciever shotguns with rotating bolts. An example of the pump model would have beer the 1300 and the gas operated version would have been the 1400.

"well, it didn't blow up!" Now that's a ringing endorsement if ever I heard one! :P

Okay I'll say it. The whole time he is describing the inherent traits that this auto rifle has in shotgun construction, the sticker on the side of the receiver is marked "W 1187". Anyone else notice that?

@AndrewAMartin

3 жыл бұрын

I'm wondering if that's just an inventory tag put there by the Cody Museum, meaning it's Winchester number 1187, not that it's a Remington 11-87...

@bad74maverick1

3 жыл бұрын

@@AndrewAMartin Obviously it doesn't have anything to do with the 11-87 I found the coincidence kind of funny.

@AndrewAMartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@bad74maverick1 yes, a remarkable coincidence. My brain went there too for a moment, seeing a shotgun receiver then "1187"...

Patreon support pays off again. This is my favorite kind of content from you.

And I think that gap by the pistol grip/firing group is for the switch that locks the pump forward on a shotgun

Damn, it must feel bad working a lot of hours, pouring your mind and soul into a project then it just stops, goes nowhere. All your hard work is gone.

@Kevin-mx1vi

3 жыл бұрын

Not necessarily. If you're working on a speculative project you have the chance to play around with ideas and learn from them while (probably) being under little or no pressure to meet production targets. Half the time you're really just trying to work out the best way to actually produce this thing and what tooling you'll need. Speaking from experience, sitting around drinking coffee and yarning with coworkers is a big part of the "development" process. 😉

@catherinewhite2943

3 жыл бұрын

Been there; done that. It sucks. You move on.

@gotsloco1810

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome to Design Engineering. Sometimes go get a hit sometimes you make scrap. The trick is have more successful projects than failures financially.

@daveconleyportfolio5192

3 жыл бұрын

In most lines of work it's like that. The value of experience is you can keep those old ideas in your back pocket and look like a genius when the younger guys are stuck for an answer.

@MrZpeppers

3 жыл бұрын

Bruh they’re still pulling stoners projects off the shelves because they were so far advanced in that day that people didn’t see a purpose in them. Hence the knights armament Amg

Is this not "just like a Remington auto loading rifle" ?

The Winchester 1400/1500 has a really similar mechanism with the shape of the bolt carrier, a bolt shaped like an AR-18 one, albeit 12g and 4-lug, the action bars on the sides, the placement of the piston and recoil spring and the externally identical looking trigger group. The biggest difference is that the 1400 has a magazine tube holding 2-3 shells, with the spring and piston in-line and ahead of them inside the front handguard. Also, that gun is pretty complicated to field strip (compared to ak-47/ar-15), but the barrel comes of with a single thumb nut at the front of the gas port / hand guard, making it pretty nice to transport.

This kind of investigative work is always your most fascinating content; analyzing and making educated guesswork of interesting and unknown pieces. I also think the observation that it was based on a shotgun is apt and accurate; the receiver and the action look very close to a Winchester shotgun my grandfather used to own.

the receiver looks very close to a Remington 7400

The pistol grip reminds me of the Chinese AK rifles.

@terminalbrd

3 жыл бұрын

To me, the shape of the pistol grip makes me think of the shape of a S&W revolver.

@s.h.v.c2865

3 жыл бұрын

or vz-58

Those action bars and the front piston reminds me of a Remington 1100 action.

Thank you for the forensic examination of this firearm. It is very enlightening.

All the fan boys are excited about Ian talking about his Johnson....

@jamesslick4790

3 жыл бұрын

😲 and "action bars" 🤣

@Psykomancer

3 жыл бұрын

You think it was self-loading or manually operated?

@johnstacy7902

3 жыл бұрын

@@Psykomancer you want the silly answer or the serious one

You are correct that the bolt carrier and trigger group are from a shotgun. But your timeline may be a bit off. The parts appear to be from the Winchester model 1200/1400 line of shotguns but these guns didnt ome onto the market until 1964.

@WardenWolf

3 жыл бұрын

And the receiver is from a shotgun, or modified slightly from one. As someone who actually has looked at the pressures and bolt thrust differences, this is horrifying. Over double the bolt thrust and over 5 times the pressure. Literally none of the base components in this gun were designed for that kind of abuse. Even with the bolt locking into the barrel as opposed to the receiver, the lugs on the receiver that support the barrel and, indeed, the receiver's structural integrity itself, aren't designed for that kind of recoil. You wouldn't catch me anywhere in the same room when this gun was fired. I'd want at least two cinderblock walls between me and it.

@JackManiacky

3 жыл бұрын

And the 1200s will cycle the pump to the rear from the recoil. All you have to do is pull the pump forward. This looks like they were trying to turn that into a semi auto rifle with no gas system. A speed pump to a speed auto.

I'm lovin these Johnson variation vids. Way cool

So looking forward to the updated episode, probably 2 years from now, on all the sweet info that the community is gunna collect on this gun.

This needs dismantled, examined, and maybe reproduced. I really like the way this looks.

@WardenWolf

3 жыл бұрын

Oh fuck no. 12 gauge bolt thrust with magnum shells: ~4300 ft/lbs, compared to around ~10,000 ft/lbs with .308. 12 gauge chamber pressure: 11,500 PSI. .308 chamber pressure: 62,000 PSI. And this is built on a 12 gauge receiver. You would not catch me anywhere NEAR that thing when it fired. I would title this video "Wherein Winchester branched out to manufacturing hand grenades."

@HeavyTanker-vx4oq

3 жыл бұрын

WardenWolf it's not a 12 Gauge bolt however, it's just a modified receiver. It has a custom bolt. And trunnion for the bolt to lock into. It would From what I could see be perfectly safe to shoot. If you could figure out what ammo it uses.

That rear peep sight is HUGE.

Reminds me of a rem 742 with Johnson sights and fal style furniture

I love the "Ian don't know anything of the gun but is going to see what can figure out" section

Why this reminds me of AR-10? Or at least AR-10 that had its DNA spliced with a Winchester lever- or pump-action shotgun? Also, does it have a scope rail? I would guess that it would be something of a possible M14 or AR-10 competitor... might be interesting to find out if it accepts .308, and maybe it would have become select-fire if the development went further...

@RMediaObelisk

3 жыл бұрын

Not to get picky here, but .308 isn't .308 mm. That would be too small to produce a meaningful bullet or cartridge. .308 is 308/1000ths of an inch.

@marty2129

3 жыл бұрын

@@RMediaObelisk sorry, my mistake, corected...

@RMediaObelisk

3 жыл бұрын

@@marty2129 No worries. Just wanted to clear that up. Have a good day 👍

Looks a lot like a Remington 740 type system

Love the prototypes.......You need to do more...Thanks

The trigger assembly looks almost exactly like that of a Winchester Model 1200, for what its worth.

Too me it looks like a cheap infantry rifle that was meant to be cheaper than the M14 using mostly shelf parts. The spring configuration Ian mentioned sounds like it wasn't the most reliable and was the reason it never went anywhere.

@mandrakevermilyea7488

3 жыл бұрын

"Its gotta be infentry proof"- give them a shotgun that fires.30cal! Sounds about right to me.

Looks like a Goldeneye64 3D model of an FNAR.

This was the best video with no hard information I have ever seen! Love it. And now I want one of those, even if no one knows what it is!

Great to see interesting prototypes like this.

Currently debating if I should get the Forgotten Weapons Patreon so that I can listen to the Q&A videos while I'm on the road 🤔

@kfeltenberger

3 жыл бұрын

Do it. It's well worth the monthly investment...you can get it for the cost of a large Coke at McDonald's...

@ethanjensen6802

3 жыл бұрын

@@kfeltenberger you make a good point.

Kinda like a winchesters 1400, shoehorned into a rifle.

@tedstrong3235

3 жыл бұрын

Looks like they used that trigger group in the 100, 1200, 1300, too.

Been with you since the early videos Ian and still enjoying and learning (science, politics, geography etc all tied up in armaments) so I just wanted to show appreciation and send best wishes from England.

One of the best ways I usually spend time in my day is to watch Forgotten Weapons! Well done as always, Ian!

Looks like a blind man's description of an FN FAL.

@airplanenut89

3 жыл бұрын

I noticed that too and I wonder if this was intended to be entered into the competition that would see the M14 adopted, only Winchester decided not to for some reason. Perhaps because they had been tipped off that the Army BuOrd wasn't interested in adopting any other rifle than their own design.

Looks like a FAL and a Shotgun had a baby...

@jacobdaniels7458

3 жыл бұрын

Yes

@alexsoklakov7454

3 жыл бұрын

Drunk after-party sex kind of baby

Got a hour plus drive for work and this makes it much better.

i watched so many of your videos, the first thing that came to mind is this looks a bit like a shotgun conversion. you have thought me so much. thank you Ian.