How glad are they that not EVERY person that comes up and talks to them at Shot show is a mechanical engineer... very.

@nickestes1839

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't take a mechanical engineer to learn how their own product actually functions.

I love how Ian subtly calls out the industry jargon.

@The_Osprey

7 жыл бұрын

He didn't call out jack shit. He's being an pompous prick. The RPM of the round is irrelevant. The fluid dynamics apply regardless of the RPM of the projectile. The rep never claimed it was spinning like a top. If the round weren't spinning at all it would start to spin inside a fluid environment based on that design. Why be dubious? There are videos on KZread right now. They've gone from nerds to some kind of weird pompous know-it-alls that reveal themselves to not be very well informed.

@MilsurpWorld

7 жыл бұрын

I was more talking about "Copper Polymer Matrix". The company could have some something like "polymer-coated copper" or "copper-polymer mixture" but they had to give it another cool and high-tech sounding name and I think Ian was subtle in the way he was like, "okay". As far as the spinning remark, I think Ian was thinking that it was the bullet spinning leaving the barrel that caused it instead of the shape of the bullet once it hits soft tissue.

@bones020694

7 жыл бұрын

a "matrix" is a mixture of different media where one media is suspended in the other. think of jello. the jello is the polymer and the fruit suspended inside is the copper. except the fruit is the size of a pinhead and the pieces are really close together

@pac6010

7 жыл бұрын

I don't think Ian was a prick at all actually, he very respectful here. You could certainly tell what he was thinking but he didn't get into a pissing contest with the guy about it. And yeah to me the barrier penetration claims seem suspect. No way a polymer bullet that weights 65 grains and also has a frangibility factor is gonna penetrate up to par with lead bullets which already have problem through certain barriers as we know. Which is why they make bonded bullets etc. Needs some independent testing.

@The_Osprey

7 жыл бұрын

North Florida Gun Guy They called it exactly what it is. It's copper powder mixed with a polymer. Do you not know what a matrix is? If that's what Ian thought he doesn't know much about firearms or physics for that matter.

salesman "it moves right through barriers" Ian "OK" lololololololololo

@McDylanNuggets

4 жыл бұрын

I was reading through comments and read this at the same time they said it. What a coincidence 😂

@mikemiller5637

3 жыл бұрын

😂

@ticket2space621

2 жыл бұрын

@@McDylanNuggets lol me too

I use a peanut butter and jelly matrix between two slices of bread to sufficiently quell my hunger.

you don't understand, it uses "hydrologenistanium" that turns moisture in the air into lava that disintegrates the target.

@turkeyhamman4111

3 жыл бұрын

Science.

I was excited at the title cause I thought the guys who made polymer-CASED ammo showed up... That would've been a reeeeaally interesting conversation.

@stonewalljackson6168

7 жыл бұрын

Indonesian Sasquatch Already did come up, just about kicked the TFB dudes into the hospital.

@zurn56

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah "military" ammo that blows appart your military rifle sounds really fun and works great.....

@hitmeinsteadofyourkid4967

4 жыл бұрын

OutDoorPegasus it works fine on attack helicopters and jets in the US Air Force

I am a big fan of shrewdness when things seem suspicious. The fact you guys stay independent and sponsor free, is part of what makes you guys so great. Don't ever sell out, and keep, "keeping it real."

Ian and Karl...... skeptics at large in the marketplace. No sacred cow is safe.

...glue mixed with copper filings...

Those are drillbits. also Buzzwords. goddamn the buzzwords. These use a Hyper-Carbon Polyalloy Introcomposites to oscillate the projectile at mach speeds.

@Cam-zw8lj

7 жыл бұрын

TheGM or to translate "them bullets git it fast and make big yeeyee holes in stuff"

You guys asked ALL the right questions instead of just parroting the marketing babble like so many other channels do. You guys make me proud to be a subscriber!

I love how these representatives get so caught up by Ian simply questioning what they have to say, you can tell they are used to bloggers coming by with snazzy cameras going "oooooo woooowwwww neeeeaaattt" and then moving on to the next mundane thing. Not my InRange boys, they don't roll like that

@asdfjoe123

4 жыл бұрын

So, was this stuff tested? Any updates?

Ian and karl, it is truly a joy seing you debunk bullshit while being polite. Such a relief from softball questions.

I like how you guys are treating manufacturers skeptically and critically (in the case of Colt) and not just gushing over gear porn.

I love how Ian comes in and just wrecks these guys with actual correct information. That's why you guys are the best shot show coverage there has been this week.

Gun Jesus see`s thru your marketing.

@millwaterpublishing1387

7 жыл бұрын

Hallelujah!

@scubaman2546

7 жыл бұрын

Brian Anderson Re: gun Jesus & his camera-man. Excellent episode!

Damn the marketing wankers for these companies need to come up with some better talking points for these droids.

@IvorMektin1701

7 жыл бұрын

Sam Harsha Bernadelli and CZ always had the hottest spokesmodels.

@ChewbacaTW

7 жыл бұрын

Who needs a decent product when you have super hot booth chicks?

@wb1349

7 жыл бұрын

Its metal powder being held together by polymer so I don't see how that would be an issue in finding fragments.

@CCW1911

7 жыл бұрын

Inhumane bullets eh?

@CCW1911

7 жыл бұрын

INF nice edit. Congratulations you recognized your own silliness.

I remember Peter Lynch saying to never buy shares in a company you can't explain with a crayon sketch, and I feel like that applies to wild ammunition claims as well.

@george2113

Жыл бұрын

I hadn't heard that before but it makes sense, thanks

Dude this is the best Shot Show commentary. Please don't stop

I don't think (in theory) the bullet needs to be spinning or "turning" as fast as you would think. I say that because the "flutes" on the bullets are actually ramp shaped. So EVEN IF the bullet had zero spin at all, material entering the "flute" axially, will be directed out radially. That is to say, fluid entering the flutes parallel to the bullets trajectory will be directed outward (at the very least) at a 45 degree angle simply due to the ramp/incline at the end of each flute. So even with minimal spin, there is potential for that effect to be exacerbated and cause this concept to be half functional, in my opinion.

@WholesaleTurbos

5 жыл бұрын

Derelict it looks like the ramp angle from those cut outs is whats causing tissue tearing

@theuncalledfor

4 жыл бұрын

Not just "minimal" spin. Zero spin would be enough, if the ramp cutouts actually do what they are designed to do. The jets of fluid ejected by the ramps would be like three blades cutting into the target's flesh. Rotation is therefore not needed to inflict severe damage. However, regardless of whether it is needed, these cutouts would _cause_ the projectile to rotate, as the ejected jets of fluid are off-center, creating an effect like three spinning blades. Assuming sufficient kinetic energy in the projectile, these fuckers would _blend your insides._ Question is: do these ramps function as intended, and does the bullet carry enough kinetic energy to cause that amount of additional damage?

@Qureas

4 жыл бұрын

@@theuncalledfor And if they do, should this be legal ammunition? Ammunition that causes wounds impossible to patch up is against the geneva convention.

@SurmaSampo

4 жыл бұрын

@@Qureas My understanding is that the Bush Jr administration exited that treaty and it only applies to militaries anyway.

@josephpelletier9494

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Qureas Tear gas and hollow points are also against the Geneva Convention. Doesn't mean they aren't fair game against your fellow countrymen.. 'Murica

I've personally tested the polycase ammo in 9mm and 45ACP, and it's GREAT. I'm frankly surprised you guys are so flummoxed by this, as this product is not new at all. It goes through 2x4, drywall, layers of denim great, without getting stopped up like a hollowpoint. It then appears to begin tumbling (not breaking up--I've never had one break up) in ballistic gell. Almost all my rounds I shoot in the gell end up flipped backwards. This is where it dumps all the energy, which it does to great effect on the block. The only time the round breaks up is on steel, where it turns to powder during close-range match type shooting.

@InrangeTv

7 жыл бұрын

+PristineTX We know it's not entirely new, but we have no personal experience with it either. We do plan on acquiring some and doing some of our own testing and experimentation. ~Karl

@PristineTX

7 жыл бұрын

Wasn't a criticism, Karl. I'm a big fan. Just surprised. I would have thought it would have been hard to miss at the show last year when they were trying to make a splash. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts when you test it. I was really surprised by how well it performs for me. I had a lot of skepticism too, until we dragged out a block and shot it. When you realize it isn't really a frangible round, (at least not in soft tissue--we never had one break up) it makes more sense.

@dannycurd9894

7 жыл бұрын

Kevin Sullivan o

@dudelit6482

7 жыл бұрын

Seems like a ripoff of the stuff lehigh puts out.

@justinhood8274

7 жыл бұрын

It would be fast if you are thinking about it as a stationary object. But as a moving projectile you have to think of it differently. Think penetration depth and twist over time. Use a shot to the chest as an example: a 3-6 inch penetration with a 1:10 twist. this is only 1/3 to 2/3 of a full rotation. a shot into gel would be 10-12 inches, on average, so about only 1 full rotation. so the analogy used " a boat propeller in the water" seems to be just jargon. I would love to see test videos if anyone has made any.

Doesn't look like it feeds in a lever gun worth a damn.

@InrangeTv

7 жыл бұрын

+LoneWanderer360 I don't think that was the ammo as much as the gun, actually. ~Karl

I love the critical eye you guys have during this coverage, not just kissing ass. It really helps wade through the marketing bullshit. Keep up the good work!

Why does every spokesperson at Shot show sound so uncomfortable?

@vulekv93

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe because they are lying

@omargodinez7256

4 жыл бұрын

And they know they are lying

@gabriellavere6952

4 жыл бұрын

Because they've heard InRange is on the prowl and asking questions...

Glad to see reasonable skepticism and questioning of the reps with a willingness to testing their claims and the opportunity for the rounds to convince open minds. Looking forward to the testing guys!

Lemme guess. You guys primarily went to Shot17" to rag on all the products? I so approve.

@AtholAnderson

7 жыл бұрын

Well we've seen one half decent thing in these videos (so far). That integrally suppressed pistol seems to live up to some of it's hype (can't be 100% certain until there's some independent 3rd party tests done, away from the devs)...

@Porty1119

7 жыл бұрын

SHOT Show was a bit of a SHIT Show this year. There were very few interesting products, sadly.

Ian your not afraid to ask the hard questions, you are keeping it real. The people at shot must being running when they see u coming. I luv it. keep up the good work. thank yoy

Roll up, roll up, come and taste the magic snake oil

You guys are perfect at this, because you just don't sit back and go 'oh that's cool and i can't wait for it" but you dig your talons of knowledge into the item. And start calling out the bullshit you are hearing, which is fantastic.

I love how he talks about not having feeding issues, and the stuff proceeds to jam up a levergun.

Are these the same dudes that made those weird polymer cased rounds that blew up peoples guns because fluted barrels or somesuch?

I look forward to further testing of this bullet, I've been curious about them since they first starting appearing in the last year or so.

Europeans: it delivers 300J of energy Americans: it will go through plywood

@R281

3 жыл бұрын

Americans are practical.

@radogost1536

3 жыл бұрын

@@R281 i agree, plywood per bullet-just another American unit of measurement 🤣

@R281

3 жыл бұрын

@@radogost1536 touche

y'all are great never change

I love how in all these video's your guys are just calling these people out!

This may have been noted in an earlier comment. (I didn't go through the entire comment section). There is an assumption being made by Karl & Ian in this video that the fluid displacement only occurs if the bullet is actually spinning at a high rate - the propeller analogy. I think the fluting will create a high degree of fluid displacement even without spin, simply due to the forward motion of the bullet. Here one should imagine what happens to water if a non-spinning propeller is dropped into a fluid at high speed. There will be considerable water displacement from this non-rotating propeller as the fluid is forced over the propeller blades at high speed. (This is why if a propeller aircraft loses an engine in flight the propeller blades are 'feathered' - blades turned perpendicular to flight direction - to reduce the drag that is otherwise produced).

excited for this testing.

Can't wait to see some testing

i just want to say you guys are doing a great job with the audio. alot of these other shmucks who are coverong shot show have horrible audio. 👍

I appreciate the scepticism.

Thanks guys for your honest and open minded approach to these products. It's easy to be sucked in by hype, but it's also easy to be a gun snob, and hate on everything new and strange. kudos.

These bullets don't rely on spin to create hydraulic damage. The energy due to the forward motion of the projectile through the fluid is transferred laterally into the target. The spin causes the flutes to also act as a cutting surface and ensure the lateral energy is spread evenly throughout the wound channel.

I love how Ian grills these guys

I've been curious about these rounds myself, would love to see if full review on it. he did say it would penetrate sheet metal which is certainly different than your standard steel targets. A car door would be interesting for sure. also he mentioned penetrating glass, not necessarily automotive glass But there again would make for a good review. Keep up the great work.! :)

Working for a company we were doing load test development on an R&D rifle and came to the realization that about 20,000 RPM is the sweet spot for the projectile being fired. Our chosen twist rate 1:8. So you would probably get plenty of rotation out of a 9mm for what he states. Obviously not as effective as its hyped up to be however. Also frangible rounds do penetrate better up until they hit a surface with a higher hardness such as steel plates. The downside is that they wear out weapons faster. Ie feed ramps on M4s.

We shot something similar in the late 90's called Longbow... in that it was a copper resin molded bullet, not the fluid dynamics thing. The shotgun stuff wad cool because you could use it for door breaching without a stand-off device.

I love how InRange will call BS when they hear or see BS

In case anyone was wondering, at the claimed muzzle velocity of their ammo, and 1:10 twist the actual rotational speed of their bullet is: 1500 fps x (12/10) x 60 = 108,000 RPM.

it's on the selves at the Academy Sporting goods store chain here in TX. the Ruger ARX "cutters" are at any rate.

I wonder how much of the plastic stuff stays in your barrel.

Every time I try watching a bit more I get downed with laughter just seeing Ian's expression when the ammo guy talks.

I love the way you take the piss out of the poly round huckster.

I'm so glad Ian and Carl don't need sponsorship from gun companies.

The defensive rounds do **not** need to have a high twist rate in order to deal substantial damage to soft tissue. That is not how they displace soft tissue, regardless of whether the projectile is spinning or not(say hypothetically it could not twist at all and still be accurate) when the projectile is travelling through the body, it forces the tissue into the fluted channels and directs it outward, since the tissue is compressed while it's in the flutes, when it's directed out and away from the projectile it is moving very fast and is very high pressure, it pretty much acts like a jet, which produces hydrostatic shock. The temporary wound cavity from rounds like these speak for themselves, there are many ballistics gel tests using these projectiles, captured in slow-motion, that you can find here on youtube. These rounds work off the same principle as the Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defense and Xtreme Penetrator rounds which are some of the very best defensive rounds you can buy for a pistol. The primary difference is that with the Lehigh/Underwood rounds, it's a solid copper fluted projectile and with this it's a copper/polymer blend fluted projectile. The polymer part may or may not work well, but the fluting has been proven time and time again to produce massive hydrostatic shock/soft tissue displacement, and in the case of the solid copper projectile it does a great job of penetrating barriers and retaining it's weight and shape, so much so that often you could re-use the projectile if you can recover it.

I would love to see more of these Myth Busting Shot Show segments from InRangeTV. I am sure there are many vendors selling stuff based on looks and not actual science!

@jerryaddington3310

7 жыл бұрын

Just watched it. That is the worst I have seen so far. Hold on while I assembly my CCW! Either last year or the year before there is a video of a Company called Oversight Shooting Technologies ( which is rather funny in itself ) they made a sight called the SeeAll and the guy that was giving the demo said that unlike other companies their sights use twice as much Tritium as the competitors so they are hoping to get closer to 20yrs of illumination out of it! Now I am not saying the guy filming should be disrespectful but it was definitely worth a "WHAT"? That's not how a half life works!

cannot wait to see ballistics gel high speed tests with this. If the solid round nose rounds become super cheap I will be interested.

“Compresses the fluids” interesting. Physicists would love to hear how you can manage to compress fluids

The hydrostatic shock aspect comes not from the rotation but the redirection of liquids and mass impacting the flutes. As for the barrier penetration, well a round nose is going to be better that a flat point.

I will say through my own testing of the 9mm ARX, feeding was flawless and barrier penetration is adequate. You'd think they'd blow apart like dust, but I was satisfied with the results against a car door and drywall/lumber. As far as effectiveness on a live target, I can't really say. Long story short, I wouldn't immediately discount these rounds. That said, i'm not going out of my way to buy them either.

Considering normal frangible ammunition is a pain to deal with this product may have some serious interest in that market. I would be highly skeptical of it being great for much else. Ian your questions are refreshing and absolutely necessary for today's gun industry. This kind of media is what's needed to keep manufacturers honest about product and drives these group to make effective products rather than effective marketing.

Ian, stumping that dude and making it look easy.

Ian bringing the heat! I like the idea of the frangible training bullets if the price is right. Check out the TN Outdoors video on those defense rounds though. They are total BS.

You have to look at it as the opposite of how a boat prop works. It turns tremendous roational velocity into two lesser lateral momentums of different objects. The prop spins very fast through water, it moves the water, but since the mas of the water is greater and water by its very nature absorbs a lot of this energy, the velocity imparted to the water is not quantitatively equal to the velocity of the prop, until you figure out the mass of water being moved and break every thing down into base equivalent energy units. Since the prop has pressure exerted on it from overvomming the inertia of the water and its fixed to a movable object, the boat, it causes movement in the boat. Imagine now to see what the bullet does , taking an aquarium of water full to the top and slowly moving the bowl of a spoon across the surface half way submerged. Its gonna move some water out of its way. Do it faster and it will move more water and that water will be moving faster. Do it really really fast and its moving a lot of water really fast. The spin rate of the bullet isnt really important because the energy is all thats really needed here. It has tremdous energy moving forward and a shape that naturally channels fluid through it in a specific direction. This will transfer momentum from the bullet to the fluid, slowing the bullet the same way hollow point expansion does. Im not even sure the direction of the spin matters all that much other than opposed spin directions would actually serve to slow the bullet more but for less of the inteded hydraulic effect. Its something they should look at but i dont think its that significant. It turns forward bullet momentum into lateral fluid motion. Now. Does it work well much less AS well as the manufacturers claim? We can look at a perfect world example of fluted bullets that are intended to derive spin stabilization from traveling through the air to see that they do NOT really derive much effect from this design. However this is because they have small surface areas and are trying to ustilize whats typically considered a poor working fluid, air. Water based fluids are orders of magnitude more efficient than air. Think of the overall surface area of a boat prop compared to the overall surface area of a sail designed to propell the boat at similar speeds. Its much smaller. Yes some of this is because the surface area of the prop is used iteratively, meaning many many times in succession, but that is equivalent to the energy of a constant breeze. The difference is that the prop rotation is internally induced while the wind is external. The sail has to be big because air is not very dense and cant carry much energy per unit volume. Denser fluids are more efficient.

@davidabest7195

2 жыл бұрын

Are you high on adderall or something?

I've seen several ballistics gel reviews of this stuff and it seem about even on standard hollow points for wound channel, its pretty I teresting stuff, I garners admirable penetration though not a super deep expansion cavity, and from.what little I've been able to test with it the recoil from.smaller gun is a huge advantage for things like a ruger lcp (what I fired with this ammo) and for guns with feeding issues on jhp these should be nearly as reliable as ball. so I think there's tradeoffs but I do think its potentially quite viable especially in compact firearms, and might represent the wave of the future. and it may be worth noting the leiheigh extreme penetrator hunting rounds in larger pistol calibers use the same principle of tissue disruption but in a typical lead and copper configuration

Thanks for the video keep them coming.

non-expanding fluted projectiles are genuinely one of the most interesting developments in the firearm world the lehigh defense extreme penetrator and extreme defender loads are a great example of this. tnoutdoors9 did some great testing in which he proved that the light weight and frangibility of the light polycase does a bad job on light barriers like sheet metal and glass. The 3 fluted defensive rounds on the markets each seem to be trying to accomplish different things. Extreme Penetrator: uses flutes to achieve maximum penetration equal or greater than fmj in gel tests, it's penetration seems excessive for urban defense Extreme Defender: uses flutes for a wider cutting pattern and lower penetration that matches popular hollowpoints in police use, it's primary advantage is being "barrier blind" in that it retains shape in light barriers Polycase: seems to be yet another attempt at selling low mass low recoil high velocity defensive ammunition (a long time gimmick in the ammo market), but the fluted design allows it actually meet FBI penetration requirements. however since it's still such a light bullet it does poorly if it has to penetrate anything more dense than flesh

Weird to see them get so caught up on how much it would be spinning as if that would significantly impact the effectiveness of the flute ejecting material to the side. Barrier and gel test videos for this and Lehigh's similar projectile have been out for months so I'm not sure how jumping on it not literally rotating at power drill rpms is some kind of gotcha when there's already proof of the round's general terminal performance.

Thou shalt not spew gun bull$&!- Gun Jesus

PLEASE stop by Winchesters booth, and suggest that they remake the model 1897 trench gun from WW1! I own one, and they are fantastic. This year marks the 100th anniversary of the U.S. entering WW1 (April 6th 1917 to be exact,) and it is also the 120th anniversary of the Winchester 1897 being released. I think they would sell a TON of those if they could keep them under $1500, given how popular the trench gun is in videogames, movies, etc. Norinco makes one (which is difficult to find,) but they are lower quality than the Winchesters. An official Winchester remake would be beyond cool :)

I like your new hairstyle, Karl

Interested to see the results. thanks for the video.

I loved it when Ian plays stump the salesman. LOL

The first sales guy is definitely spouting marking talking points way above his pay grade. For reference, in terms of materials science and engineering: A copper-polymer matrix most likely refers to powder metallic copper suspended in a plastic (polymer) material. Similar aggregate and cement in concrete, it can produce a material with properties more desirable and controllable than either raw material. In this case, the ability to make an intricately shaped projectile using injection molding techniques which are cheap and fast without having to resort to slower and more expensive machining or casting as would have to be done with a solid metallic bullet. The properties of the finished projectile will depend on how much copper is used and what polymer acts as a binder. We can get a rough idea of how much copper is used based on the quoted weights. I believe he said the 9mm was 65 grains. We can roughly compare that to a FMJ made mostly of lead at 125 grains. The specific gravity of lead is right around 11.3. The specific gravity of copper is about 9. This means that a solid copper bullet the same shape and volume of the 125 grain FMJ should weigh just under 100 grains. This means that the polycase bullet is likely around 65-70% copper, depending on the volume lost to the cuts. The rest is plastic. To be fair, some plastics can be as strong as aluminum, but I doubt they use glass fiber reinforced nylon, its probably some cheaper plastic like polystyrene. Now, powdered metals in plastic are nothing new. The MIM parts in newer guns are similar, and powdered metal parts are used in a variety of industries. The difference is that the metal makes up 98-99% of the mixture and the parts are sintered after molding to fuse the metal together and burn off the plastic. This causes the parts to shrink slightly and unless they are molded over-sized and pressed into shape at the same time they are heated (expensive), I don't think you could hit the close tolerances required for use as a bullet. So the percentage of copper is probably dictated by how much they could cram into the plastic and still have a injectible, moldable composite that would meet dimensional requirements. The wounding characteristics are likely complete marketing wank.

I love the honest criticism. I remember when these showed up in guns and ammo years ago. they marketed it as a round that could NOT be collected and reused. It was marketed for military purposes so that enemy couldn't collect fired lead and make new bullets. Im really skeptical about this ammo.

I can see where they're coming from with the design, but I'd like to see some target tests to show if the fluting functions as intended.

The design has been around a few years tn outdoors 9 did a review. Lehigh defense has the same idea but brass. Iraq veteran 8888 loves Lehigh ammo

It's the shape of the flutes that act as ramps to divert the fluid of the target, not the spin of the bullet.

Here's my prediction: They go through 'intermediate' barriers such as clothing, soft wood and glass. The glass will probably deflect / frang it at some point. As for creating wounds, it's not dependent on spinning to work. I think that design is just differentiate it from other similar rounds. It's simple physics to know that it will mess up flesh more than a RN, probably to a similar extent as said similar rounds.

The rotation speed of the bullet after it engages the rifling isn't the point. It's about the fluid entering the channels in the projectile and being forced out at a somewhat perpendicular direction to the axis of travel. This causes more cavitation. It seems like their marketing guys didn't even understand what they were trying to sell.

If you look at how it is fluted it doesn't have to be spinning at all because the fluid will make it spin and the fluid will be pushed out at the same rate

I wouldnt be too quick to dismiss these. I think the theory is sound and I can understand what it's trying to do. Whether or not it's actually more effective than an expanding projectile is still up in the air. I would really like to see a side by side comparison.

Hilarious video. Reminds me of fire clean.

Are the knodgules on the bullet are getting the way in a fast manual loading.

Hey thats the guy from Gunblast in the background at the beginning isn't it ?. Jeffs brother. I forget his name.

Ian and Karl take no prisoners in their interviews! I think every marketing person they talked to is going to put them on their blacklists. LOL!!! -Jen

The Top Gear of gun (and everything relating to) information shows

Just going off assumptions: I would assume that the spiral fluting is the "magic" you are trying to find, on impact with "fluid", the tissue/etc. will be forced into the fluting and the flutes fill as the bullet continues it's path( losing linear velocity because of the resistance, while gaining angular velocity due to the helical flutes). The helical flutes kind of convert linear velocity into angular velocity, and at the same time, direct contacted tissue relatively perpendicular to the axis of travel of the bullet. Instead of thinking of it like a propeller, imagine it as a screw in wood. You start the drill out slow and it digs in fairly fast, but once you crank up the drill, the screw stops digging in and starts to dick up the threads(it's spinning too fast with not enough downward speed to thread, so it just eats away at the wood).

@mrmepanda

7 жыл бұрын

Btw: big fan, you guys are great

If you could compare this ammo to some of those lehigh defence cavitator or defender rounds that would be amazing since they claim to use the same method for generating wound channels

Were you guys ever able to get, and test this ammo?

Totally want to see you guys test this in the field! Cinder BlocksBallistic GelWindshield with Ballistic Gel behind it2x4 with Ballistic Gel behind itGet Crazy! Wonder how it compares to Horneday critical defense

I suspect that it could be a different mix between the frangible training rounds and the defense rounds, you have a difference in volume because of the flutes, yet he says there is no change in mass, that would suggest to me that the defensive rounds are made from a slightly denser materiel, hopefully giving it more strength and less frangible characteristics

I've been watching the testing of both these and the solid copper fluted bullets and the performance of both is impressive in gel even through light barriers ( drywall, 1/2" plywood, etc.). My concern is how the wound mechanism will translate to less hydrous and less consistent material like muscle. While gel gives a pretty good indication of what a hollow point will do in flesh, it is not analogous in every matrix and I'm not entirely convinced this wound mechanism will translate, but is love to find out.

TNOutdoors9 did some gel testing with this a while back, it isn't the best but certainly not the worst.

You guys really need to invest in a high quality boom mic, or a set of concealed shirt mics.

tnoutdoors9 did a couple videos on it for 9mm and it averaged around 15 - 17" in the clear gel from personal testing the recoil is significantly reduced, and has functioned flawlessly in the firearms i've tested it in, even after accidentally putting a mag of it in the washing machine. haven't tried shooting steel with it, so don't know about the frangibility of it. Inrange should try it

Given the low weight of the projectile I think the rotation due to the rifling will be almost negligible, since it will amount to very little rotational inertia. The part the salesperson apparently didn't understand himself, is that if a non-rotating propeller moves through a fluid at high forward velocity the fluid will slow the bullet, but in doing so will start to rotate it. Look up auto-rotation on a helicopter for example, same idea. So I think that effect will contribute much more to the potential fluid dynamics. But I can't possibly tell if the effect is strong enough to cause any significant improvement in terminal ballistics. So I would very much look forward to your video on it. Then again I wonder if a nasty wound canal is really a good thing in the hands of a layman...

that guy with the high and tight.

Ian, I have a question. I see that you have bag on shoulder, I think is a gasmask bag. I suppose that inside are some markings, writings - can you write, how its looks? Maybe it will be name of my city and shop, where was made. Thanks.

I would assume that the flutes would generate torque in the process of hitting tissue and forcing it outward, with the forward momentum producing the wound instead of the angular momentum the bullet gets from the rifling.

Were the failure to fully eject problems anything to do with the round or was it just the gun.