We'll have to agree to disagree. Red Dragon was a commercial vehicle. Manhunter was cinematic art. Both have their place, but I'll take Manhunter, hands down.

@Turskaruhtinas

3 жыл бұрын

The only thing Red Dragon has going for it are the great actors. Otherwise Manhunter beats this competition hands down.

@jessebrucepinkman9834

3 жыл бұрын

Manhunter's actors were all shit apart from Brian Cox. All the actors had hideous hair cuts. The old Toothfairy was so ugly

@Turskaruhtinas

3 жыл бұрын

@@jessebrucepinkman9834 That's fucking stupid. There isn't a bad performance in Manhunter at all, the actors are perfect for the style the project has. Red Dragon has more star power and the performances are, indeed, great but that doesn't mean Manhunter's just have to suck like as if by some universal way of balancing itself out.

@conorm2540

3 жыл бұрын

@@jessebrucepinkman9834 this reads like a 3rd grade book report. “I didn’t like it because I thought they had bad haircuts. The old man serial killer was so ugly.”

@ClayMationNation

2 жыл бұрын

@@jessebrucepinkman9834 No they weren't. Manhunter was fucking amazing on an artistic AND an acting level.

Manhunter is one of the flat-out coolest movies I've ever seen. The visuals, sound design, soundtrack and editing are very, VERY slick and effective. Rewatch it simply for the way the shots are composed. Every frame stands on its own as gallery-worthy. Take for example the post-intro credits shot with the tilt down from the sky to the beach. It's just REALLY damn cool.

@rossdiamondthief6627

4 жыл бұрын

Lance Ehlers “coolest” is a complete understatement!! Manhunter deserves to be studied in film schools!!

Red Dragon is clearly a better adaptation, but Manhunter is a better film.

@TheMole2005

5 жыл бұрын

Couldn't have said it better Still, both are good Adoption of a Great novel Now Its time for a nice Chianti

@Jim-pq9pm

4 жыл бұрын

Better adaptation? They're both quite different from the novel.

@gonzaloNMF

4 жыл бұрын

i think will character is better portrayed in manhunter though

@thefilmeffect6089

3 жыл бұрын

What pisses me off about Red Dragon is that I know it could've been a masterpiece with a better director. The movie has everything going for it from the cast to the score, but overall it's a very safe and by the numbers thriller. I just wish it had it's own Jonathan Demme like The Silence Of The Lambs to really bring the best out of the material and bring a new level a craftsmanship to the movie.

@rebelfiend1193

3 жыл бұрын

Red dragon is good because Anthony Hopkins also where is Hannibal rising review

Tom Noonan is a legend. He portrays great villains.

Brian Cox was a great Lector. People forget that SOTL was not written yet when Manhunter came out, giving him less material to work with. Hopkins elevated the role to perfection so Cox's great performance is mostly forgotten.

Tom Noonan is absolutely terrifying ! Great performance. I read the cast members were afraid of him as he was not going out of character between takes !

The score to Manhunter is brilliant. Masterpiece.

@swimteamizzle1114

9 жыл бұрын

Terry Silvester Can you explain to me why you and others liked the score to Manhunter? It was my least favorite part of the film, and one of the only times a score to a film has stuck out to me as bad and outright distracting. But most people seem to love it, so I'd like to understand. Is it some kind of 80s nostalgia?...

@carlramon7695

9 жыл бұрын

I think its a joke the score was horrible

@aljensen9548

8 жыл бұрын

+swimteamizzle1114 Oddly enough, the heavy synth sound is coming back - you can hear it in some indie films already. When I first saw Manhunter in 2004, i thought the soundtrack was distracting and cheesy. Seeing it again now that there's been a synth revival and maybe with the benefit of more distance from the 80s, it really is good, and fits the mood of the film immensely.

@alansmith3677

6 жыл бұрын

carl ramon clearly stupid!!

@aljensen9548

5 жыл бұрын

VincentHanna121 it's not really a trend yet.

The story is about Will Graham and Dolarhyde , it is not about Lector. The fact that Lector hijacks the film Red Dragon is a FAIL.

@richardmickelson6026

4 жыл бұрын

Dave Wolfy Not true. The stories are about Lector and how he steers these characters (Will and Starling) in their hunt... Hence why HE crosses over

@rossdiamondthief6627

4 жыл бұрын

Dave Wolfy Red Dragon was still a good movie.

@jaygoisbest44

4 жыл бұрын

Richard Mickelson I couldn’t disagree more I mean not about silence of the lambs that’s a fair observation but it’s about red dragon where your point couldn’t be more wrong having read the book myself lecter is barley in it he’s only in a few chapters and writes a few letters so it really has nothing to do with lecter at all he’s is just a supporting character

@BruteStrength99

4 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more. Mentor received way too much FaceTime in Red Dragon. He wasn't featured nearly as much in the book.

@RatchetandSly

3 жыл бұрын

Lecter has more screen time in Red Dragon than he does in the book and in Manhunter, but the movie is hardly focused on him. It is still less focused on Lecter than Silence of the Lambs was.

Man the huge white blank walls is one of the elements that makes the atmosphere in Manhunter memorable for me.

Giving Red Dragon the edge over Manhunter in even a single area, much less proclaiming it the superior film, is utterly incomprehensible to me. Every key scene is done infinitely better in Manhunter, and the performances and screenplay are better as well. By comparison, Red Dragon just comes off as cheap and half-hearted.

@kylebarker7362

8 жыл бұрын

+Porfle Popnecker Exactly. It's just cashing in on the success of Silence and Hannibal. Hopkins' performance in this is so drawl and dull I found myself wishing he'd get off screen - very much the opposite of his original performance. 10:04 "It's an oscar winning performance". No - Silence of the Lambs was. Not this.

@catoblepag

5 жыл бұрын

He gave Jaden Smith's Karate Kid the edge over the original Karate Kid. Let me write it again, 'cause I still can't believe it myself: he gave Jaden Smith's Karate Kid the edge over the original Karate Kid. It's basically like choosing the Garbage Pail Kids over the Godfather. Such stupidity should be considered a crime against humanity, so I'm not surprised about this one either.

@dantheman4838

5 жыл бұрын

Not only do I think Manhunter is a better movie than Red Dragon, I'd say even Hannibal is a better movie too.

@samoslich8131

4 жыл бұрын

dan the man Whoa, calm down Satan. That is not the case at all

@TheTruthfulAsshole

3 жыл бұрын

Truth.

I gotta go with Manhunter just for the best use of an old rock tune in history. The scene where In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida is playing in the background while the killer is lining up a massive body count was just hardcore.

@magusperde365

7 жыл бұрын

Red dragon made me cry for the villain .. heavily, Ralph Fiennes was incredible

@bigmark2.046

7 жыл бұрын

Me too.

@jcooloti

4 жыл бұрын

@@magusperde365 Totally! The scene where he puts the woman's hand over his mouth in bed while she sleeps and begins to cry is F'n MOVING. I love it.

@jcooloti

4 жыл бұрын

Duuuuude... right!? So f'n SICK! So perfect. As effective as "goodbye horses" in Silence of the Lambs. The way they used the breakdown organ solo too.. and the way it kicks in when he crashes through the window. SO AWESOME. Even if he basically just gets his ass handed to himself after crashing through... hahahha

Oh Red Dragon is so "dumbed-down". I love the minimalism of Manhunter, it is a true classic.

I think manhunter is by far a better movie, even tho there is merit to the points he makes. manhunter is on par with silence of the lambs, to me. Shame it's so overlooked.

@gonzaloNMF

4 жыл бұрын

i agree

To everyone in the comments who is complaining about the Critic's decisions: HE'S A REVIEWER! HE GIVES HIS OPINIONS! YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHARE THEM AND NOT SHARING YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MAKE HIM AN IDIOT!

@P_Reaper_S

9 жыл бұрын

Lol but who in their right mind would ever choose Manhunter over Red dragon?

@hrvallejoMKT

9 жыл бұрын

***** The new one had more budget, bigger-name cast (Sir Anthony Hopkins alone makes it especial) and more development time. Manhunter is on its own and it is a pretty solid movie: you could have been a fan if you saw it before Red Dragon. Which "is better"? The answer could be pretty obvious but that doesn't mean that the other movie isn't without merit.

@7thHanyou

9 жыл бұрын

Hernando Vallejo To add to your point even more, I saw Manhunter a few years AFTER Red Dragon and, while I initially thought Red Dragon was decent, I MUCH prefer Manhunter. This might be heresy to most, but I actually like it almost as much as Silence of the Lambs. Really dig the style and overall feel of the movie, and it just feels more economical and well-made. Red Dragon has bells and whistles to bring it in line with Silence, but it just doesn't wrap me up in quite the same way. The main villain and Will in particular are just way more interesting to me in Manhunter, so it's like they were prioritizing the wrong things. Seriously, what's with Will in Red Dragon? Considering that he's now the central character of a great show in a definitive portrayal, Red Dragon's kind of aged by its extremely bland version of Will. To each his own. In my book, Manhunter's the obvious winner.

@porflepopnecker4376

8 жыл бұрын

+Alexander Sigstad Your opinion is absolutely irrelevant.

@pleaserewind295

6 жыл бұрын

People with taste?Red Dragon is bland shit that plays like cheap fan service.

Manhunter is better because of that amazing tiger scene with the music of Shriekback. That scene alone was so beautiful and sensual, and Tom Noonan as the killer lurking in the background. Just perfect!

@MrCarpen7er

Жыл бұрын

Manhunter is better in everything.

Hmmmm. While I don't dislike Red Dragon I think Manhunter's by far the superior movie. Most of the praise I hear - like in here too - is really for Silence of the Lambs rather than Red Dragon. Hopkins here just milks it too much and is going for the scare factor he perfected in Lambs. I feel myself getting bored half way through his sentences. Cox for me is by far the more menacing Lecter. Like Critic said; if he wanted to he could deduce you like Holmes and start manipulating or insulting you in a second. But also whilst you know Hopkins' Lecter is creepy and would be intimidating; Cox's performance could charm you and make you want to socialise with him. All he'd have to do is wait until you drop your guard and then he'd be able to do whatever he wants. Although he didn't base it on him whenever I see Cox I immediately think of Ted Bundy. The lowest of the low in terms of human being but still very charming and potentially seductive. That's what's dangerous

I felt that Norton was just a big name in the role and didn't really do it any justice. A place holder. Manhunter feels like Will.

@rossdiamondthief6627

4 жыл бұрын

GhostShock his acting in Red Dragon was still good though.

@thefilmeffect6089

3 жыл бұрын

The director plain and simple. If Red Dragon had a better director it could've been a masterpiece.

Manhunter is amazing, Red Dragon is a Brett Ratner movie.

Brian- realistic. Mads- interesting. Anthony- scary.

@Megamaniac610

8 жыл бұрын

I think Brian Cox works better for and with the brief time period that he's in the movie. Like, imagine if you only got that tiny amount of time with Anthony Hopkins? It just wouldn't work because there wouldn't be the build up and it would be frustrating. They both fit the movies that they're in pretty well.

@magusperde365

7 жыл бұрын

Those kind of serial killer puts out a caracter for attention.. for me hopkins is the more realistic. And the fact that graham does not take his shit and that this movie show him more as flawed. A real nuts serial killer ted bundyish would be like hopkins.

@magusperde365

7 жыл бұрын

I personnally know a psychopath and we talked often .. I would pretty much imagine him wanting to entertain himself by being full on Lecter and trying to make it credible in prison. I mean is isn't dangerous at all ( annoying in high school where his game was to find part of my body to hit to make it paralyzed for a couple seconds...though ) but if he had all the media helping to build this caracter.. no chance to ever join society again etc . He would

@irvingramirez2335

7 жыл бұрын

DeathCreationist switch brian and mads

No. Manhunter is one of my favorite movies of all time.

The Will Graham on the TV show HANNIBAL is more like the one in MANHUNTER as well. But I think Anthony Hopkins is a better Hannibal than Brian Cox.

@nenabunena

9 жыл бұрын

Yes, I liked a more conflicted unstable Will Graham like Peterson's and Dancy's.

@SkyExplosion

9 жыл бұрын

That's because that Will is alot like the one in the book. Which works so much better on T.V. because you hae so much time to see how he is constantly is.

@ExposingZionistEvil

9 жыл бұрын

This guy appears to be a total douche-bag, and I couldn't finish watching this bullshit.

...... Do you dream much, Critic?

@JOXCY

5 жыл бұрын

Goodbye90sToonChickyoucanleavemessagesformeonthenumberinthefile

I actually prefer Micheal Cox as Lecter. Hopkins is really good too, but Cox sounds more.. normal. He could be you're neighbour, if yoiu did'nt knew what he was, you could actually trust him. That's what makes him terryfying, in my opinion.

@davidzepeda3951

8 жыл бұрын

+Erin _ i've read the novel and that's what i thought too, Hopkins was genius in silence of the lambs, he pretty much defined Hannibal as a character in terms of his acting abillty (which i think it's great). To me, it appears that they tried to milk Lecters character in red dragon, they tried a formula, and even though i think Hopkins did a splendid job reprising his role as the cannibal; i found Cox's portrayal a bit more fitting, he just felt like a true socio/psycopath. Like it was so normal to him, as you stated, he could be your neighbor. and that's the genius about his performance. Hopkins's Lecter seemed to me more theatrical, almost for purely aesthetic/artistic purposes. Loved Sir Anthony in silence of the lambs and hannibal, but i liked Brian's version in manhunter a bit more. sorry for my english!

@erin_3569

8 жыл бұрын

David Zepeda no need to apologize. I'm french. ^^ (hope i'm understandable too)

@davidzepeda3951

8 жыл бұрын

Erin _ you are! i'm mexican,

@kurvos

8 жыл бұрын

Pffh... I'd never trust a shmuck like the character Brian Cox plays.

@musicmusic6595

5 жыл бұрын

Cox performance was brilliant, when i watched it first time, i had absolutely no idea he was faking it, i thought he was genuine, superb work imo.

Manhunter without a doubt. Red Dragon was the blockbuster version where A-listers and visuals replaced deeper and more subtle story telling. Manhunter didn't need to rely on more Lecter to be good, Red Dragon had to rely on him and copying Silence in style.

You send a bad message, red dragon had a bigger budget man hunter had to rely on the acting and actual performance.

Not only is Red Dragon more faithful to the book, but in my opinion it is the better movie. Plus it's got Anthony Hopkins in his Oscar winning role! However, I do agree that Will was better in Manhunter. No offense to Edward Norton, he was good, but William Peterson was better.

Just recently I read the book, then watched both movies. In my opinion, Red Dragon followed the story of the book much better, and also included all important scenes. Manhunter didn't really explain the background of the killer, it was a very stripped down story compared to the book and lacked too many details in my opinion, while Red Dragon showed almost all of it. The detective was definitely better in Manhunter, the killer maybe too (though visually Red Dragon's killer was better). Emily Watson was much better as the love interest of the killer. Not sure about the Hannibal, Hopkins is more of a relaxed, calculated psychopath, while in Manhunter Hannibal seemed more anxious and on the edge. Simply due to my preferences I'd say Hopkins did it better as I imagined Hannibal as a cold and calculated rather than a more erratic character.

@Nick_CF

5 жыл бұрын

I thought Manhunter did a far better job at creating atmosphere which I am now realizing is why I gave it the edge over Red Dragon. IMO

@nancydublobrewer217

5 жыл бұрын

Nick Faught Manhunter had a look specific to the 80’s because of Michael Mann, who was the schizz back then. I loved his use of neon lighting and the somewhat music video atmosphere, especially in the final scene. Man hunter is kind of a slow burn which is why it’s my favorite of the two. I did like Red Dragon...Ralph Fiennes was very good as Francis Dolerhyde. We learned more of his backstory and he was played the role more tragically than Ted Noonan. Noonan was SO much creepier though. But...as much as I like Ed Norton, he’s not the Will Graham that was in the book and in Manhunter. William Peterson was awesome. He did play the role as if he was still seriously messed up. This will probably anger some people, but I always thought Anthony Hopkins was too over the top as Lector. I’ve always thought so & no one is gonna change my mind, lol. Brian Cox was okay....I have to say that my favorite version of Lector is Mads. I don’t think his portrayal of Lector would fit in any of the movies, though. That was the beauty of Hannibal, the tv version. It was almost its own story...different from the movies, but it was beautiful. Manhunter was visually amazing too, but it was the 80’s, lol. Anyway, IMO, Manhunter for the win!

@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165

4 жыл бұрын

@@nancydublobrewer217 Oh, you had me 'til the end, lol. Red Dragon is the better film, imo, simply bc it's a much better adaptation, vs Mann's "Miami Vice" ending. I couldn't get past it. But you're right about the book, Petersen AND Dancy both LOOK and ACT more like how Graham is described. So does Cox. (No Hannibal-actor has had 11 fingers, though, lol.) I understand what you mean abt Hopkins, but I still* have nightmares abt him, lol. Btw, I think you meant Tom* Noonan, not Ted. And yes, the newer Reba & Francis were better portrayed.. That is why I choose RD.

@MrCarpen7er

Жыл бұрын

Lol, shut up

Manhunter is of course better than Red Dragon

The remake of Manhunter served only one purpose: so all three series include Anthony Hopkins as Lector - and that’s it. That gets me raging mad because Manhunter was the original and it was one of the best and it will always be one of the best. The only other one I loved was Silence of the Lambs. Will Peterson was originally masterful as was Tom Noonan, Brian Cox and Joan Allen; their great performances should not have been overshadowed for such a shallow reason. As you know, the remake just to remake for the sake of including a certain actor thins out the whole Red Dragon movie for me.

12:26 I'm sorry critic but I have to disagree. Sure, in Red Dragon, the tooth fairy killing his girlfriend is a lot more tragic, but your point about tooth fairy killing his girlfriend in the original being "just another kill" makes it even more frightening. The whole scene where she's freaking out because she can't locate him and he's just stood there silent and soaking up the God-like feeling of control and the advantage of being able to see, is so much more menacing as well as him going back to his old ways of killing her like she meant nothing. Shows how sick his mind is and there's nothing that can change it. Plus at 12:35 The way he just stormed across the room to her and motioned to grabbing her face, it gave me shivers.

Yes. That is Brian Cox. Fantastic actor. He was one of the best parts of X2, and I thought he really stood out in The Bourne Supremacy.

The thing that I like so much about Cox's performance is that he seems like a guy who could exist. Hopkins, and Mikkelsen for that matter, mythologized lector to the point where he's superhuman like Michael Myers or Jason - he knows things he has no way of knowing, and can bend the rules of reality to survive injuries or get from place to place. Not judging the acting, just the character choice, and I think there's a lot to be said for the way Cox, and the source book for that matter, portray Lector as nothing more than a brilliant cannibalistic serial killer. He's scary for understandable reasons - he knows what he is, fully understands it, and doesn't care. He doesn't feel a need to make up a reason the way the Tooth Fairy does, for example, he's just completely comfortable with what he sees when he looks in the mirror.

M Hanson is correct. The Manhunter Vs Red Dragon debate is redundant from the start. There is a reason why Manhunter is beloved by many notable filmmakers. It has an indescribable malice throughout...quiet, understated and beautifully framed sequences...and an amazing soundtrack. Some have argued that Manhunter and Raging Bull are the two finest films of the 80's. I think I might agree. And as much as I love Silence Of The Lambs, it's got nothing on Manhunter.

@markhanson6563

10 жыл бұрын

M Hanson says thank you, but call me Mark! Did you happen to see the Michael Mann / Miami vice episode where Don Johnson became the psychic William Petersen character. Lame, but Mann was copying himself... btw LOVED you in Braveheart and those phone messages!

@marveybrent7571

10 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@andrewmihovich4252

6 жыл бұрын

"indescribable malice"? ... Did we watch the same movie?

I would very much like to see a further comparison between these and the TV series Hannibal after its finished its television run.

Manhunter. Yes, it was nice to get more of the story, and the cast of the film is lovely and star-studded, but spelling out things, being literal is no substitute for an experience you can get your fingers into. Manhunter played things more internally. Films can take care of external surfaces very well. Nothing to it. But getting inside is the challenge. Ratner's movie develops more of the external at the expense of the internal.

Manhunter is much more creepy and atmospheric. Noonan’s Dolarhyde also really captures the weirdo aspect to the character.

12:05 I like how the Critic used the original DW theme here. Even though I have no idea why.

@andrewmihovich4252

5 жыл бұрын

... Because he is implying that it is through time travel that Barney looks like he's outright unchanged in two times twenty years apart.

The best Will Graham is Hugh Dancy

In situations like this, you truely see why cinema is primarily a directorial art. Two movies, closely folowing same well written story, with great casts; but one(Manhunter) is clearly better than the other. Because it has a great director (Michael Mann) with a unique vision.

@Ikelae

9 жыл бұрын

Why can't we just accept them both as the unique mediums they are for telling the same story. I think it is rather awesome to have two totally different takes. I love them both for different reasons. Both films have their advantages and disadvantages. It is fine to have your opinions, but realize it is your own. That is the beautiful thing about art, it is subjective.

@Ikelae

9 жыл бұрын

monokhem nobody asked you scrub, move along.

@Ikelae

9 жыл бұрын

monokhem Didn't I tell you to move along? I don't have time for your stupid right now. ;)

@Ikelae

9 жыл бұрын

monokhem what are you even going on about? Someone had an opinion, you didn't like it so you had to attempt to troll it.. this was weeks ago haha. You are a sad, sad little scrub. Trying to troll old material lmao Perhaps find something relevant to troll on to start? Hahahaha what am I saying, you were dumb enough to try here again anyway hahaha. 

@Fickji

9 жыл бұрын

You almost need to see them both back to back to get all the story. Manhunter for its quiet sweeping visuals and Red Dragon for its background depth. Manhunter shows emotion through the reading between the lines approach while Red Dragon comes out and tells it point blank the motivations of the characters. But I'll always take Grissom over the Brad Pitt's nerdy double. You can tell in Manhunter why they got William Petersen for CSI.

Brian Cox as Hannibal Lecter is, in a sense, more disturbing to me, because he and the entire context of the movie, from what I've seen of it, seem far grittier and more realistic than the moody, dramatic Anthony Hopkins ones. The scene from Manhunter seems almost like something from one of those prison documentary shows, and then there's the eighties background music further distancing it from the somberness of The Silence of the Lambs, etc.

@kylebarker7362

8 жыл бұрын

+Kissai Sith Jen'ari Exactly. If you watch Ted Bundy (a real serial killer if you don't know)'s final interview they act very similar. Both seem normal on the surface but you know there's something beneath the surface that's incredibly dark and macabre. They both could be charming and seductive. Cox's Lecter I could see getting entranced by. I'd want to befriend him and socialise with him which could let my guard down.... Whereas Hopkins' more screen-friendly horror film performance - i often hear compared to Bela Lugosi's Dracula - you know the guy's weird or creepy and would cross the road to avoid contact with him.

@Tsadi9Mem9Khet9

8 жыл бұрын

Jan Barker Yeah, Anthony Hopkins seems to be outright grandiose and theatrical like that in everything I've ever seen him do.

@MephProduction

5 жыл бұрын

Brian's version as Hannibal just doesn't work, i can't imagine him as a Doctor he comes across as thug not a highly intellectual killer

William Peterson is a better Will Graham. After all, the show Hannibal uses an actor for Graham that looks an awful lot like William Peterson. Ed Norton to me is always a bit dopey in whatever he's in. And while Anthony Hopkins performance as Lecter in 'Silence' is obviously unforgettable, he's so much more of a cartoon villain than Brian Cox, who plays him as a straight away psychopath.

@TheBlackSpiral

9 жыл бұрын

Geoffrey Zoref I agree, completely.

@slug237711

8 жыл бұрын

+Geoffrey Zoref Norton dopey in whatever he's in? Yeah, someone had too much to drink last night :P He's an incredibly talented, underrated actor. Yes, I said underrated. I know he's been in award winning movie and was nominated numerous time, but that's it... nominated, not won. Plus any time someone thinks of a Norton performance they just think of American History X or Fight Club, how about Death to Smoochy? The Illusionist? The People vs Larry Flint?

@oliverclamp2671

8 жыл бұрын

+slug237711 Haha Edward Norton's the most "rated" underrated actor. But I agree with you otherwise.

@ufotofu9

7 жыл бұрын

DOn't get me wrong, I love Norton as an actor. He's probably one of my top five actors, but he's kinda got a dopey, teenage face. It works for him most of the time, when he's a naturally cool guy who always knows what he wants, like in The 25th Hour and even American History X.

@TetraSamurai

7 жыл бұрын

Geoffrey Zoref non conventional does not mean cartoony. Yes his lines seemed more scripted and "cinematic", but anybody can have those creepy mannerisms and voice tone

Who is best Will Graham? Hugh Dancy, obviously. I know this came out before Hannibal the TV series, but just... Hugh Dancy as Will Graham is so interesting, being both creepy and also a little romantically tragic and sad.

@MrThedorkknight

9 жыл бұрын

AirOfSpace I just finished season 1 and i agree. Granted, he has 3 seasons to develop the character but he seems the most real and 3 dimensional.

@kylebarker7362

8 жыл бұрын

+AirOfSpace It's hard to say because Peterson is solely post-Lecter conflict whilst Dancy is going through it. Going by what I remember of series 3 I'd still say Peterson because he struggles to keep his sanity mainly - I think - because he doesn't want to get back into that mindset. More of an internal conflict without it being flashy Dancy's fine but for me it was just too try hard. Much like the Red Dragon film

My interpretation of all the white walls and clear open spaces in Manhunter is that Graham is trying to start of with a clean slate for his mind. When he runs out of Lectors cell, his POV is blank whiteness of the jail staring back at him, almost like white torture.

I believe out of the multiple actors who have played Will Grahm, I think Hugh Dancy is probably the best.

Manhunter is a way better film than Red Dragon. Red Dragon is over the top in many ways. Silence of the lambs is obviously the best Thomas Harris adaptation, but Red Dragon to me isn't that good.

@juliusaugustino8409

8 жыл бұрын

***** Yeah that's understandable

@kylebarker7362

8 жыл бұрын

+severi saaristo Agreed. Like even in Critic's review most of the praise for Hopkins' Lecter stems from Silence of the Lambs. ".... this is an oscar-winning performance." No - SOTL was the oscar winner - not this film. This film just rides the nostalgia too much of the original Hopkins take on Lecter

@denzellima3079

5 жыл бұрын

I just finished red dragon and for the first time really and it gave me chills. I'm 26 and was literally terrified the whole way through. Gotta watch man Hunter next

@CosmoShidan

5 жыл бұрын

I've been told that Brian Cox's Hannibal Lector is much closer to how an actual serial killer would behave; which is why I think that Cox trounces Hopkins, whose Lector is cartoonish and over-the-top.

@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165

4 жыл бұрын

@Jean Baptiste I agree. The book details why Francis is so tortured, so I thought Ralph Fiennes did a better job/had a better script.

I'd rather go with the one closer to the novel. I know Francis Dolarhyde as a disturbed and traumatized shy child rather than an unpredictable homicidal maniac. Red Dragon portrays this better than Manhunter. So I disagree with NC's choice on the villain. In the other hand, I did like Manhunter's Will Graham better, for the exact reasons NC explained. As for the supporting cast, I never really cared about the family, not even in the novel, so this I agree with NC too. As for Lecter... well... hate me for this but neither of them made the cut. Then again, I'm talking about how it was done relative to the novels. In my mind, based on the novels' descriptions of Dr. Lecter's manners and attitude, Dr. Lecter is pure class, and entirely sophisticated and smart doc with an elevated mind. Cox brutally failed to represent that and seemed just annoying, but Hopkins decorates him a little too much. Novels aside, I did like Hopkins' performance way better, he's just more of a boogieman. However, back to the novels, Lecter is not scary. In fact, he has a comforting presence who just so happens to have quite the menu in his private life.

as a kid (I was a weird kid) I loved hopkins as lecter and it is still a brilliant preformance but seriously mads mikkelsen blows away every fascinating killer we have ever seen. He's able to play lecter in a way where you don't only feel mentally overmatch but also physical. Him with a fork and another person with a gun, my moneys on hannibal and it's actually believable.

Manhunter's villain really pulled me in when I was a kid. When I was old enough to understand what was going on, I watched it again and I loved it even more.

I'm sorry critic, but you were really out to lunch on this one. Manhunter is vastly superior to Red Dragon, and the bulk of those who disagree either can't comprehend or look past the 1980's tone and aesthetic, or are simply not used to the more restrained approach to its subject matter and storytelling that Manhunter employs. Red Dragon is a mainstream thriller, and a particularly harsh and unpleasant one with performances and direction that rarely rise above the vacuousness or pretensions of blockbuster moviemaking. On the other hand, while Manhunter may be stylized to the hilt, its subject matter and overall presentation are far more believable, both in the conviction of its performances and direction, and the degree of realism in its depiction of the story. Manhunter is practically an art film, with a strong visual aesthetic that seems to recall early 20th century expressionism.

Red Dragon just felt like a cash grab. It was like the director asked how they could milk the fame from Silence of the Lambs or the extremely disturbing Hannibal.

The Hannibal tv show in my opinion is the best Hannibal letter adaptation ever

@dickpole2607

7 жыл бұрын

I personally think he is the definitive Lecter.

@satansmascara9756

7 жыл бұрын

Eh, the acting and quite a few of its ideas are great. But it sort of falls flat at times when it tries to be too artsy and poetic instead of giving us solid plot that honours the source material. They take it for granted that they are better than everything else in the entire franchise. Still a great show, but I think the writers should think a bit less highly of themselves. And yes, Mikkelsen and Dancy are awesome. (I also appreciate the Female, POC, Mental illness and LGBT representation, but honestly judging a story's worth just by that is dump and tumblr's job, not mine lmao).

For the role of Hannibal.. admit it.. if you'd have to sit silently in a (secure!) room face to face with Hannibal... Cox would drive you insanely mad with his remarks, but Hopkins would just creep you out without ever saying a word. Just looking at that blank stare is so frightening. I'd be much more afraid of Hopkins than Cox.

Manhunter is the definition of a thriller film... the performance William Petersen gave in that movie was astonishing... absolutely brilliant...! while Norton as god as he is as an actor, in Red Dragon he looks like a guy trying to repeat the lines of a movie in acting class... now as far as Lecktor/Lecter goes... it's obvious that Hopkins was gonna win... but Brian Cox did a remarkable job as well as a more cynical Lecter... Manhunter is the better movie hands down...

@lupe2645

6 жыл бұрын

CactusG26 no

@Ruskefaen

5 жыл бұрын

Yes

@CLewey44

5 жыл бұрын

It's easily the most underrated Thriller of all time. And it is as you said the definition of a thriller and really the original great modern serial killer movie. A lot of people have never even heard of it then yet it when I show it to people they absolutely loved it. The crime scenes the little nuances lighting music and will Peterson's performance are impeccable. It's great.

Coming from a huge Hopkins fan as Lector i have to say Mads Mikkelsen is absolutely fucking awesome as Lector in the TV series Hannibal.The series started off slow and i had serious doubts about not only the TV series itself but also the actors portraying the iconic characters. It starts off slow but by the s2 finale i was absolutely astounded by both the direction of the series as well as the actors.Point is...go watch the shit out of Hannibal.Binge watch that shits until you get caught up,trust me its worth it.This is coming from a skeptic that it would be nothing more than mediocre. The season 2 finale is absolutely haunting and is probably my most watched episode of a TV show ever and that includes a double watch of every episode of Breaking Bad with a third shot of the series finale.trust me,if you stick with the show past its snail climb in season 1 it will be worth it if you are a series fan.

Manhunter hands down. Red dragon is decent enough, with good performances, but feels exactly like what it is, an updated remake. You also cannot compare cox and Hopkins interpretations in these two films. A better comparison would be cox's in Manhunter and Hopkins SOTL as it was first efforts for both. For me, cox did an excellent job with limited screen time, but Hopkins SOTL is something that will stay with anybody who watched it all those years ago. Hopkins in Hannibal and red dragon didn't have the same chill. Would have been interesting to see cox's take in the other films.

Brian Cox's portrayal is more realistic. In Manhunter he just comes across as an evil, devious prick. Anthony Hopkins version is brilliant but some of his antics and traits are more accustomed to a Bond villian. He's more intimidating when he is angry and has lost his cool like for example when Multiple Miggs Spiderman's Clarice. He is pissed off pure and simple at the rudeness of Miggs and thus when you hear how he persuades him to kill himself it has a real shock."That sounds like something Miggs would say". "Not anymore".

The only film that is on par with the show is Silence of the Lambs, seriously if you haven't seen the nbc show Hannibal get on it now

N.C., in more of your "old vs new", could you look at the musical scores of each film? I and many others fee that musical score is very important to a movie, and you too have said so yourself, so why not mention it? (IMO, the musical score from both of these films is FANTASTIC with a side of fava beans and a nice chianti)

Red Dragon is a movie about demented serial killers that plays it safe. It's non-alcoholic beer.

@GoddoDoggo

9 жыл бұрын

In my opinion, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic beer are shitty and terrible, but at least one doesn't leave you discombobulated, confused, and regretting it in the morning. Conversely, I think both Manhunter and Red Dragon are fantastic and wonderful... but one of them leaves you a bit discombobulated, confused, and regretting it in the morning. Some people like being left wondering. Some do not. It's all about preference.

@RABartlett

9 жыл бұрын

But a movie about serial killers should leave feeling discombobulated. That Ratner managed to make a comfort food movie about the subject matter is kind of messed up.

The clip the critic shows when he says "most of these scenes don't even have music" actually does have music. One of the best "serial killer"-vibe songs ever.

Manhunter is superior in every way. Red Dragon was forgettable in every way.

@watchwumbo1395

10 жыл бұрын

If I were you I would choose my words more carefully...

@watchwumbo1395

10 жыл бұрын

***** I wouldn't make assumptions quite so blindly, Commander.

@watchwumbo1395

10 жыл бұрын

***** I'm not sure. Your liver is looking rather tasty...

@falariem

10 жыл бұрын

I really liked both myself. But I agree that Manhunter is superior by a long way.

@watchwumbo1395

10 жыл бұрын

Loren Helgeson Are you absolutely sure of that?

It would be interesting to compare both of these with the tv series since they all focus on Graham and Lecter and the same time frame

As great and scary as Tom Noonan was, I prefer Ralph Finnes’ Dolarhyde. Noonan played him more like the Frankenstein monster (which isn’t bad) but Finnes was more realistic, he’s the kind of killer that’d live among us.

This is not even close....I saw the unedited, original version of Manhunter in 1986 and knew, right then and there, that I had seen a film that would forever live among my favorites. Sixteen years later, Director Brett Ratner set up camp (i.e. lights, cameras; security personal; two of Red Dragon's stars, Ralph Fiennes and Emily Watson) on the corner of my street (Pelham & Woodstock in Baltimore, MD - the scene where Dollarhyde shoots Reba's co-worker) as my toddler and I watched him re-make the one film in which nothing needed to change. Not even the score. Where others find the music to be overbearing, I found it haunting and suspenseful, and memorable, much like that heard in The Exorcist. The relatively unknown cast, was chosen with skill. Each major player turned in phenomenal performances. Simply put, it is my opinion that the remake fails epically by comparison. Without further ado,, I'd like to comment on the performances of both movies’ stars and then encourage the reader to rent Manhunter and see for himself. William Petersen, as FBI profiler Will Graham, is intense, sometimes gritty and others, sublime. Ed Norton's Will Graham was too young, too one dimensional and not at all believable in this role. Dennis Farina, Graham's superior at the FBI, is convincing and works very well with Peterson. Harvey Keitel's Jack Crawford did not impress. Joan Allen’s, Reba, is nothing short of stellar. If I hadn't known better, I would have, without a doubt, thought she was blind. When speaking, she artfully hides her actual vision by looking blank in the general direction but never focusing in. I remember thinking how hard that must be to do. Emily Watson's Reba was just pitiful. Her character appears weak, her expression is just blank and her performance, as a whole, was extremely sub-standard and disappointing. Serial killer, Francis Dollarhyde, aka "The Tooth Fairy,” played by Tom Noonan, delivers a spot on portrayal of a dissociative sociopath and includes the very rare experience of empathy and attachment later in the movie, At that moment, I believe the audience forgets he's a killer.. He looks so genuinely vulnerable and leaves you wondering if things would have gone differently for him at an earlier stage in his life. Ralph Fiennes, however, is not at all menacing in my opinion, doesn't appear to be wickedly clever. He bored me to tears. Lastly, the original Hannibal Lecktor, played by forerunner Brian Cox, is as good as it gets. You can cut the tension in the air whenever he is in a scene which is not often enough. His pathology is so deep; he's manipulative, calculatingly brilliant and quite menacing....something Ralph Fiennes just did not pull off. Cox brought this complex character to life and made it his own. That’s where it remains his to this day. Manhunter is clearly the better film in every way. It has poignant moments around almost every corner. Reba’s “seeing” an anesthetized tiger is just one of those. She allows the vet to place her hand by its mouth to feel its breath, convincing her it was alive. Then, with a fascination hard to describe, she drapes herself over this man-eater and uses senses other than sight to soak it all in. She is mesmerized by the intensity of the moment. We watch, transfixed, as she hears his heart beat and strokes the beasts’ fur. Dollerhyde’s voyeuristic reaction is shared by the audience here. You’re left feeling jealous of her handicap as you know what she experiences in that moment is not attainable for those with sight.. It is a very moving, seductive scene.

@mdparalegal1

8 жыл бұрын

+mdparalegal1 I apologize for the mis-speak regarding Lecktor.....I said Ralph Fiennes when I meant Anthony Hopkins.

I'm a big fan of Thomas Harris' work, and I'm curious as to what Cox might have done with the role of Lecter If he had been chosen for SOTL and the other films. I just thought Hopkins' performance was too contrived in Red Dragon, I actually thought he was better in Hannibal.

Hey Critic, what are your thoughts on the new Hannibal TV series?

@brittyn

9 жыл бұрын

wcw2793 that's what i want to do know. i think mads mikkelsen is excellent as hannibal lecter.

@BrunoCCoutinho

9 жыл бұрын

brittyn I don't agree but thats ok. I find him too pompous without being actually scary or intense. He focus to much in the fact the he is a very sophisticated person, but I never feel the deep and perturbing presence that Anthony Hopkins possesses. Also, everting is kind of cheap in the show, the dialogues are terrible. (Just my opinion, don't take it too seriously)

@wcw2793

9 жыл бұрын

Bruno Coutinho I see what you're saying, but it's kind of hard to imitate Anthony Hopkin's deep and perturbing presence in my opinion. I'll also admit that the dialogue has started to get a little confusing at times too, but I still enjoy the show because we get to see more of Will Graham.

@BrunoCCoutinho

9 жыл бұрын

Tracchofyre Maybe i didn't explain myself very well... but I'm not an fficial critic or anything like .. calm down.. this is a youtube comment from a random guy. I'm ok with fancy talk when it is used to say something of substance. using the right word in the right word in the right way is a skill that I admire. The problem is fancy but empty talk. Like that guy that uses fancy words to sound intelligent, but his arguments are just weak. Basically using fancy dialog to say nothing, but it looks like a great argument because of the way he speaks. I actually despise that. I think that the show does that... but maybe I'm wrong. I feel that show is full of cheap psychology and philosophy(I'm ok with that), and they try to disguise the problem with a rich an overly dramatic dialogues. In my opinion it makes the problem worst. ps: My formal formation is in hard science and in general we are trained to avoid over complicated phrases, when you can say something in a easier way. Maybe that is way I despised fancy but empty talk.

@BrunoCCoutinho

9 жыл бұрын

Tracchofyre I admit that I know very little about psychology, but if they overdramatize everything, like they do in this show... people like me will always confuse it with cheap psychology. I will show one of the episodes to my fiancée and ask her opinion about that. (she is a psychologist). I see that in my field of study too... some people taking about physics are over the top, an the entire discourse sounds cheap and just bs, even if correct.

Brian Cox's character is based on Scottish serial killer Peter Manuel. It's a chilling resemblance

I saw Red Dragon first and didn't even know it was a remake at the time. I loved it and still do.

It would be interesting if he chose to redo this video with Hugh Dancy / Mads Mikkelsen now. I think they channel the best of both Grahams / Lecters, respectively.

@trevor2572

10 жыл бұрын

As much as I love Hopkins' Lecter, I think I might like Mikkelsen's better. But that may also be because there is just so much more screen time and psychological interaction with Will than the previous movies.

@Byrnzi360

10 жыл бұрын

***** I definitely agree with you. Hopkins was outstanding in the role, but I'm definitely a huge fan of Mads' portrayal. He is more calculating, more methodical, etc. He is less dramatic and more intense on screen because he really captures the essence of the "psychopath in a person suite" thing. He does terrible things just to see what happens (which is possible because its a prequel series) whereas Hopkins just does terrible things.

@oofpostinginc.4321

10 жыл бұрын

mads is better in my opinion because it starts creepy and stays creepy where the initial creep factor of hopkins eventually just turns into hamyness

@Jeeves574

10 жыл бұрын

I think Mads does it well, but Hopkins just is Lecter. The problem with Mads is that he doesn't do it normally enough, I can get the creepy thing after Lecter's arrest, but in the series it's just pretty inconceivable that someone as empathetic as Graham didn't just immediately say 'perhaps the creepy murder are being done by that creepy guy'

@MrxChow

10 жыл бұрын

I think he should wait until after season 4 of hannibal. Because then they've had the entirety red dragon then.

I can't wait to see the Red Dragon storyline in Hannibal. Too bad that's like 2 seasons away.

@jamesadams9473

10 жыл бұрын

Hannibal Is based on red dragon lol

@TarnishedProductions

10 жыл бұрын

I know that. I'm saying that I can't wait until the character is actually introduced.

@DashCat9

10 жыл бұрын

James Adams Yeah, but the meat of the Red Dragon story hasn't happened yet. Lecter hasn't been caught, and there's no Dolarhyde. I'm assuming they're going to get to that in Season 3 (if there is one).

@jamesadams9473

10 жыл бұрын

:-)

@N1CK0FDEST1NY

10 жыл бұрын

What you mean? It's basically the book in slow motion.

When I think Hannibal Lecter, I think Mads Mikkleson.

@TheEternalOuroboros

8 жыл бұрын

Brian- realistic. Mads- interesting. Anthony- scary.

@Sasu123456789x1

8 жыл бұрын

me too

@jordexo3047

8 жыл бұрын

Mads's Lecter is in a whole other ballpark for me. My fav is Anthony but that's more to do with the fact he's the first one I saw and you get a lot more time with him than Brian but Mads is interesting because you have a whole show with him in it and thus you get a lot of time with him and find out more about his character overall.

@darthnoir6370

8 жыл бұрын

not only that, blackout. I find Mads scarier than Anthony if I'm being honest. With Anthony, u know what you're getting into, you know he's a freak psychopath just by looking at him. But with Mads, you wanna let your guard down, because he seems kindly and he appears as if he's trying to help you up until the last minute.

I enjoyed Red Dragon, but with the exception of Anthony Hopkins, Manhunter resonated more and is the movie I preferred to watch again.

I like Manhunter better because it does a better Will Graham and Will is the reason I watched both theses movies.

@satansmascara9756

7 жыл бұрын

Eyyyy another person who appreciates Will! **high five**

@Annadog40

7 жыл бұрын

Himawari Person I got into red dragon after reading Will Graham's page on Wikipedia back in 2010

manhunter, manhunter, manhunter!

As a third option i put forward the TV series. I'm not sure about Will Grahame compared to the movies but in terms of tone, writing and style the show wins. Its dark, imaginative and it makes cannibalism look tasty. And i will say it, Mads Mikkelsen is the best rendition of Lecter. He is always calm, collected and three steps ahead of everyone. I always found Hopkins weird little "crazy" moments detracted from the scariness of the wrong. Crazy yes, creepy yes but scary no. With TV Lecter you get the impression there is never anything that can get the better of him. His calm, cool exterior is never broken even when he has to resort to physical violence.

CONTINUED - He appeared more like he was narrating the role of Francis Dollarhyde as oppose to actually playing the part. His way of making Dollarhyde appear frightening was just a bit unbelieveable. For example, the way Dollarhyde (Noonan) talked to Freddy Lounds after capturing him, would strike fear into anyone with his unpredictability and calm attitude. Dollaryhide in Red Dragon (Fiennes) was too open with his madness and just looked like someone who would shoot you instead of torture.

I think Red Dragon was the stronger picture. Red Dragon focuses more on the sympathetic side of Francis Dolarhyde. This is the most important element of the story and what separates the story from just being another serial killer tale. The movie is by no means flawless - Lecter's role is expanded in a very shallow way and it's a bit too slick for the subject matter - but as a story about a man at war with himself it works pretty well. I don't know why other adaptations are so focused on Will Graham, particularly on his mental state. Will is able to empathize with killers and it's alarming but thats not even very relevant to the plot. He catches Dolarhyde through good old fashioned detective work, not profiling, and most of his turmoil comes from the stress the investigation puts on his marriage. Manhunter and the TV show both play Graham as some sort of autistic, exaggerating a part of his character that really only has one purpose: Get Will into the story.

@cnsmooth

9 жыл бұрын

BEcause in the book it is a big consideration. In Red Dragon, he comes across as just another cop and it is more about the killer-which is also another strong element in the book, and I'm glad they kept it in the new version.

@porflepopnecker4376

8 жыл бұрын

+James Fielding Red Dragon is the weaker picture in every way.

@punklover63

7 жыл бұрын

I have heard that the consensus among critics of the original 1981 novel was that the explanation for Dollarhyde's twisted psyche seemed facile and all-together unconvincing. Perhaps it was a mistake to delve too deep into his background when the aura of mystery surrounding his underlying motives in Manhunter seemed so effective.

@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive

7 жыл бұрын

James Fielding Will Graham from the Hannibal TV series seems the opposite of autistic. He has too much empathy and can empathize with anyone and easily relate and clearly see motivations and emotions before ever meeting a lerson. People on the autism spectrum have trouble with that. He certainly is obsessive, but not autistic.

@LordMalice6d9

7 жыл бұрын

"People on the autism spectrum have trouble with that." That does not describe everyone who is on the autism spectrum. Some people who are autists are hyper emotional, and can even be empaths. The ability to intuitively feel the energies of another person and perceive their emotions even without ever having meet them. The Will Graham character is an empath.

I remember emailing Doug's suggestion box or whatever and suggesting he do this video. About a year later he did. I like to think I had at least something to do with it, though that's probably not the case.

If they got Peterson and the Killer from Manhunter to Reprise the role in Red Dragon (If he wasn't old at that point) and kept Hopkins as Lector then they would have had an multi-award winning film on their hands, but they had to settle for Norton. And that ain't bad, Norton did a great job. Its just like NC said, Peterson had the twisted view on the Anti-Hero than Norton.

@GildedVoice

10 жыл бұрын

I agree. Have you seen any of the TV show "Hannibal"? I only caught the first few episodes when they came out, but the guy they have playing Graham does a nice mix of the two.

It seems like the Lecter mentioned in the books is more like the Manhunter version crossed with Mads Mikkelson. The same wit and instantly coming up with a response, but still subtle and charming. Hopkins is amazing as Lecter, he defined the role, but it isn't quite as accurate.

Manhunter was so much better. red Dragon was just, meh.

I am seeing a trend here. A lot of fanboyism towards Manhunter as the better film because "Hipster". I think saying the Michael Mann made movie is better, sounds like the right thing to say because its old, its lesser known than Red Dragon and it is highly stylized. All of those things add up to saying you were into a band way before the band even ever formed. No doubt, Michael Mann is indeed one of my favorite directors but I gotta say, in this particular genre, he just felt stilted. It might because Manhunter is the strange love child of Red Dragon the novel and Miami Vice the TV series; pastels, "art-deco , dead-tech bullshit" architecture and a lot of intense silences with a pounding Pink Floyd type score blaring in the background. By the time Michael Mann got to Heat, a movie that is in my top ten all time favorite movies, Michael Mann seemed to have found the perfect balance of style and substance whereas in Manhunter, it was seventy percent style and thirty percent substance. The actors are good and the story is solid but that is only because the source material is a great novel by Thomas Harris. Red Dragon isn't necessarily a "superior" movie but I think it is superior to Manhunter just on its merits; the production value is more appropriate to the source material and less distracting than Manunter, the actors pound for pound are simply better. You have Anthony Hopkins, Edward Norton, Ralph Fiennes, Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Harvey Keitel, all of whom are leading men in their own right. True, Red Dragon wasn't their best work but c'mon, it's like sending in the pro-bowl squad in against the playoff wild-card team. Again, Manhunter has some great actors in it but beside Cox and Allen, can you name any other?? The truth is that Re Dragon hasn't really ever had as great a depiction of it , and i'm including the TV show, as Silence of the Lambs. Maybe it has been the directing, maybe it has been the screenplay, not sure but Silence of the Lambs is in a different league whereas Red Dragon and certainly Manhunter feel quite "meh" by comparison. Maybe it is that after Silence of the Lambs, all depictions of Hannibal Lecter have felt safe, and I will give Manunter some credit because it was the first representation of Hannibal Lecter and it could afford some risks but not all paying off. Even the TV show suffers from this paper thin story telling taken from David Fincher's Seven, and let's face it, what is safer than network TV? But to be sure, Manhunter is like a vinyl of some indie band you like saying you "really like" much better than anything that is on the charts, but being vinyl and indie doesn't automatically make it better. Some things deserve to be obscure.

@Corn_Pone_Flicks

8 жыл бұрын

Or, you know, maybe people just like it better and aren't trying to prove anything to total strangers, like most people don't. Manhunter had the better Graham, a more sedate Hannibal who didn't seem like he was deliberately trying to creep you out, and the best movie wife I've ever seen in these kinds of films-not once does she ever threaten to leave Will if he doesn't "make a choice," as usually happens. She's incredibly supportive of him the whole time. Also, leaving off the fake ending was the right decision (although, from what Peterson has said, might have been more to do with the production running out of time/money). Really, who actually believes the film is actually over when the villain "dies" offscreen? It also would've been nice if the screenwriter of Red Dragon had consulted his own script for Silence of the Lambs and remembered that the Benjamin Raspail murder was credited to Buffalo Bill in that, whereas he now gives Lecter the credit (as did the Hannibal movie). If you're going to change a detail in the book, at least keep the change consistent.

@carpetmonk

8 жыл бұрын

Hannibal was a creep.. licking Starlings steering wheel wasn't written to be romantic.. neither was the last chapters of "Hannibal". Hopkins portrayed an excellent Lector. It was the lack of screen time and dialogue that gave him the "sedate" stature.

@traviswolf6099

8 жыл бұрын

+xerxestireirondada I've never been able to look at Red Dragon as anything more than a Hannibal Lector cash-grab. It's just an unnecessary movie, and Anthony Hopkins" portrayal at this point is such a caricature of his performance in Silence of the Lambs that I can't take him movie seriously anymore. Yeah, I do think Michael Mann is the difference. Does it make me a hipster to respect Michael Mann's artistic vision over Brett Rather's? Mann put a part of himself into Manhunter, Brett Ratner stepped out of the bullpen and borrowed the aesthetic from The Silence of the Lambs.

@Corn_Pone_Flicks

8 жыл бұрын

Travis Wolf The term "hipster" is pretty meaningless as it's used here, anyway. It's the lazy old trick of "Okay, I don't have an argument, so I guess a label will do."

@DoroteoVilla

8 жыл бұрын

Sure, agreed. Mann definitely made a more personal movie. Red Dragon of course was a more commercial movie .......but my basic point is that Manhunter was less accessible and coherent than Red Dragon, it was too "arthouse" and hipsters,posers and others that know the secret handshake, will automatically say that those things is simply make it "better" . Sure, Red Dragon was forgettable but Manhunter was just boring at times....and I love Michael Mann! Miami Vice the movie suffered from the same type of problem Manhunter did, too much ponderous camera work, albeit beautiful, but at the cost of the screenplay. Take another Michael Mann movie which gets the perfect mix of screenplay and artistry: Collateral. The screenplay, the cinematography, the acting plus the "Michael Mann effect" (pounding, cool-ass soundtrack and masterful camera work and pacing) and voila, genius.

If you see Brian Cox performance as the serial killer And if you watch any real life serial killer interviews They talk like that only Hawkins just looks theatrical

I agree with you up until the visuals. Manhunter used colours to show different emotions, and the less make up of a set makes it more like a prison, making it scarier. Red Dragon did have good visuals, but the colour palette technique was better in Manhunter. Also, the soundtrack to Manhunter rocked

Hugh Dancy is the best Will Graham no argument at all!

You re Insane! Manhunter is definitely the better movie! Red Dragon was just produced so Hopkins could reprise his role again. It's the same story again, but not as thrilling as Manhunter!

@kurvos

8 жыл бұрын

Seems like an irrationally biased way of putting it. If you prefer Manhunter and you don't like Red Dragon, that's fine. But I call bullshit on it being made just for the money. Sure, it was only PRODUCED to make money - that's always why movies are produced. If you can keep an open mind about it and be rational and mature, I've made my own review of Red Dragon upon rewatching it: fav.me/da38nyj

@kurvos

8 жыл бұрын

trha2222 I'm not giving you an ultimatum. You do anything you want.

@kurvos

8 жыл бұрын

trha2222 No. Can you learn to accept different opinions like an adult? Because you really need to. "Wueh wueh, people must agree with me on what movie is superior, or my insecurity can't handle it, wueh wueh!" - Seriously, it's annoying. One of my best friends love Manhunter and hates Red Dragon, and he's completely fine with me preferring Red Dragon.

@kurvos

8 жыл бұрын

trha2222 Look who's talking.

@maniaconthetube

8 жыл бұрын

Agreed

Once the TV show 'Hannibal' catches up to the Red Dragon storyline, it'd be interesting to revisit this and do a "Old vs. New vs. Newer" comparison.

I love Anthony Hopkins as Lecter, but most of that love comes from Silence of the Lambs. Overall, my preference is Hopkins's Lecter (though Mads Mikkleson is quite impressive on NBC's Hannibal). If we're looking at just Manhunter and Red Dragon, I'd have to go with Brian Cox, because Hopkins in Red Dragon is almost too hammy to be effectively scary. You have to also consider that, at the time Manhunter was made, Silence of the Lambs (the novel) had not even been published yet, so no one but Thomas Harris knew anything beyond the sliver of characterization we get from Red Dragon.

I'm just sitting here like "I prefer Mads tbh"

After watching Manhunter, Red Dragon was disappointing. Could be I am a Michael Mann fan.

I'd like to see an Old vs New where he compared to the show. Imho I like that Will Graham best, he gets the most into the serial killer minds and he really does seem like he's walking the border of good and evil. I love how in his first scene he literally goes through the crime scene as if he was the killer himself. I've also gotta admire the Hannibal in the show but also, just. Idk something about how it seems like everyones such an IDIOT and doesnt realize hes a cannibal after all the hints he drops is really off putting to me

My biggest complaint with Red Dragon is that it seems to suffer from The Hobbit Syndrome. It tries really hard to tie in with Silence of The Lambs by giving Hannibal a bigger role. The final scene that is supposed to lead up to Lambs felt really unnecessary. You could therefore argue that Manhunter works a bit better as a standalone. My biggest complaint with Manhunter is that it overemphasizes it's artsy style. I do like the colours, camera angles and even the synthesizer music. In some moments however it becomes really distracting, to the point that it seems a bit pretentious. There is for example a scene with a sedated tiger where the camera zooms in on his face very slowly while spiritual music is playing on the background. That shot didn't tell me anything other than: 'Hey look, we're being alternative'. Red Dragon is much more straightforward and works better as a well paced thriller.

@JapaneseVixenofArt

9 жыл бұрын

..... Really?

i wonder how he feels about the nbc show

@tonypeppercorn3818

9 жыл бұрын

Colton Bryan if he's sane he'll think it's the best show on TV

@colt45604

8 жыл бұрын

+Bruce Wayne it's a shame it was cancelled

Manhunter is a visual delight, every scene has something going on, like color tinting, shadows, stuff like that. Red Dragon - not so much, it had the better story, though, that's for sure, but I'm a style over substance kind of guy, so I can't help but profess my eternal love for Manhunter. :D Red Dragon's ok, though, all things considered.

Love all the movies but Manhunter 1986 is a whole new level, the acting, dialogue (especially the crawford-graham dialagues, pure gold) and sountrack of the original is so much better. I can rewatch the 1986 one every month and never get bored. The original tooth fairy genuilny seems like that awkward creepy guy that suffers from illusion of grandour and entitlement, just like that Elliot Rodgers. Though Elliot Rodgers was emotionally abused by his father and stepmother the tooth fairy we are not given any background on, he can be any Man that has fallen into the abyss of loneliness, lust and fantasy, he could be anybody even ourselves. The new Edward Norton movie tooth fairy we are given a sad cry trip stereotypical backstory of someone being overly abused and sexually abused by his grandmother or something which is good for a popcorn movie but it also removes the tension and the bond between viewer and villain.

@DearAnnabelleLecter

8 жыл бұрын

I love this review - truly hit the nail on the head with Dolarhyde.

I personally prefer Petersen's portrayal of Graham for these films, mainly because of his more rounded character - then again, I may be bias because of my introduction to Fuller's television show Hannibal (In which Mads Mikkelsen plays our favorite cannibalistic psychiatrist so impeccably it rivals Hopkin's legendary performance). I read the novel before seeing either movie, as a basis. In reality Manhunter is a superior film, and it felt to me like the Red Dragon on-screen was a cash cow for the rapid rising of Hopkin's portrayal of the character. In the novel, Lecter is barely present as compared to Silence of the Lambs. He's more a foreboding force and a reminder to Graham that he isn't quite the straight and narrow man he'd like to play himself off as - He's manic. Norton's Graham feels too in control to have the possibility to be come a Lecter-like monster.

Manhunter is the greatest serial killer film, full stop.

@serbianweatherman2385

6 жыл бұрын

5eurocups2005 but what about silence of the lambs

@Vraptor1

5 жыл бұрын

for fiction, yes. For non-fiction, hell no. Films like My Friend Dahmer are far better as they're documentary-styled films based on real people.

It kind of seems as if Doug thinks not being told something automatically makes it better

@lunanielsen9144

8 жыл бұрын

That's kind of a problem I have with some of his criticism. It results in him praising bland, underwritten characters for being "mysterious"

Manhunter was incredible...

I don't know, I personally loved the prologue to Red Dragon. It was awesomely shot and paced, and we got to see Hannibal be really damn terrifying yet really trustworthy. And it's not really that impossible to survive being shot in the shoulder, Doug. Sure, it would give you permanent damage, but it wouldn't kill you.