What kind of bet sizing (if any) would you use on this river?

@Azar1571

3 жыл бұрын

I would have shoved

@datsumcrzysht

3 жыл бұрын

I have to disagree with you on this one in that “V doesn’t think Hero has anything”. I’m then assuming your suggestion is that it should be a bet/fold by choosing a size of ~ $350? If I did in fact decide to bet for value on the river, I prefer the hero’s line and range merging for an all in. I agree with the caller that V is more likely to perceive it as a polarized bet and can make the call with just an A.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

Check Back. Call on the turn was questionable, why CAN'T your opponent have 2-4 or 4-7? Nothing says they CAN'T, poker is all about mixing it up and this analysis neglects that. Either way, if you put the guy on A5 or A3 - then he's unlikely to call when his hand was counterfeited.

@datsumcrzysht

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 I also agree that(given avail. Info.) the turn should’ve been a fold.

@temsedgwick9494

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 it’s not that they CANT, it’s that they shouldn’t. Should someone be calling a 5x raise from the small blind w 2-4? Not really, unless they’re bleeding cash...

If I had a dollar for everytime i lost a hand where villain “cant have” a specific holding... well.... id have all my dollars. Very likely drawing dead ott when a loose passive finally takes an agressive action.

@Cerealkiller050

3 жыл бұрын

As soon as I heard "I have him pegged as a loose passive type player", I didn't even listen to the rest, lol. 99% beat at these live stakes in my experience

@iamdavidjacob3560

3 жыл бұрын

100% villain always has 24 or 47. 100% its never anything else, and all this talk of pot odds just makes me cringe. I'm sorry, but this is just the truth. Fold AK, sign call AA and fold when the river doesn't pair. easy game.

@nuklearwinter2892

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, check call flop, check raise turn is 99% better than 1 pair in low stakes live cash games. Although I do agree with the caller that AK without a heart is one of the best hands to call turn with.

@Gos1234567

3 жыл бұрын

@@iamdavidjacob3560 Exactly,all this GTO,blockers,unblockers,pot odds doesnt mean shit when a loose passive check raises the PFRs double barrel on an Ace hi board.no way V has flush draws bluffs or A7/4 hearts. People need to hit the fold button more often,I dont really agree with Bart that you see "too much wackiness" at these stakes,a big CR on turn = big hand 95% of the time

Feel like this is best convo I’ve watched on here in awhile maybe just because he’s asking so many questions, even though most of the time you give your 2 sense anyways.

@RemixNeenii

3 жыл бұрын

Two cents*

@Lemon83166

Жыл бұрын

Two cents*

Great value bet. My only problem is if the idiot is tanking with a straight; I dont think he will call off his stack with a counterfeit two pair.

So sick that it wasn't even 42hh, it was 42dd. 😂 Of course, any game where guys are cold-calling raises in the small blind with 42 is a game I want to be in every day for the rest of my life.

@terpneck

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

42dd sounds like my home casino when a V recognizes that a H only raises with the top of their range. Call with rags and hope to flop some equity.

14:52 - "He should never have those hands". Well Villain did, and Hero got stacked unnecessarily. Checking is probably the best play, hell even a $300 value bet would've been better. How many times have people lost because they thought "their opponents can't have those hands". Unless you're Mike Postle, never say your opponent "can't have those hands".

@Gos1234567

3 жыл бұрын

Yea usually on this channels its reading a player wrong,but the guy had him as "loose passive" so 1.he could have any hand 2.A check raise = big hand. So he actually read the guy correctly but choose to ignore it which is kinda baffling really. Hero here needs to find a fold button more or at least stop blasting rivers hoping to "polarize". I mean some people know all the lingo and phrases but just cant use common sense

We love the good ol fashion cold call with 4 high on the flop

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

By your logic any flush draw would just be a high card call as well. Stick to your day job, the guy is already categorized as a loose player - you want people making gut-shot straight draws.

@nicks210684

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 well firstly that’s wrong because you can have a flush draw and a pair. Secondly, even if you don’t have a pair it matters what your high card is. AQhh on a flop of 973 with two hearts is in great shape because you have two overcards. Thirdly...a flush draw has 9 outs vs an inside straight draw which only 4 outs.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

@@nicks210684, you're all wrong cause you can also have a pair and a straight draw (on other boards). The OP's statement is just asinine. As even with 2h-4h, it's still just 4 high although a better drawing hand.

@andrewg6241

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 I'm guessing you haven't been playing poker for very long.

@nicks210684

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 I never said you can’t have a pair plus a straight draw? The point OP was making is that villain has a really crappy draw that shouldn’t be calling on the flop with another player still to act. Yeah obviously with 42hh it’s a call, maybe even a check raise. But villain didn’t have that hand.

13:22 - But Teddy he's too smart for that, What I have to do is over bet, make it look like I'm trying to buy it.

This is one of those hands where it feels to me all the equity discussion is over played. Looking at it from SB perspective, the hero raises two limpers, the first limper suggests a range, the 2nd limper suggests a slightly better range and the hero raise *strongly* suggests AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ (admittedly it's wider than that but it's on the upper end). It's a pretty narrow range. Given that the SB is 'loose passive' that suggests two things. He likes to see flops with hands that play well against that range and snap them off but won't get aggressive with bluffs. Playing Ax in that preflop betting from SB would be really stupid not just passive. So I'd guess he's playing pretty much anything from 23 to 89 that are connected or any pairs hoping to flop a set. The fact that the player is passive makes the turn check raise just scream nuts, it doesn't suggest bluff and it doesn't suggest Ax because that would be really dumb here. He either hit 2 pair, a set or the nut straight. He knows the hero is sitting on a pair so he's damn near drawing dead. The check and tank on the river just further confirms the passive nature because he's all the sudden scared the hero has A6 when there's no way he does. If I were playing and I really thought SB was loose passive there's no way I call that turn raise. I was actually kind of surprised given the title that you didn't suggest exactly that. (edit btw, please don't interpret my post as suggesting I know even a 1/10th as much as Bart or many others here, just in this case it seems overly or under thought in some way based on hero's interpretation of SB play).

@sean_haz

Жыл бұрын

Everything you said is true and makes sense, but folding top top Vs a check raise when you need

It was nice to have an intelligent caller

@CrushlivePoker

3 жыл бұрын

he had very good audio as well.. I am going to push more callers to use computer connection.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

So intelligent that he got stacked when he didn't need to. A $300 bet on the river can get a crying call from counterfeited 2 pair hands. A shove and you both lose to better hands and equity against those counterfeited hands.

@brimwnobrim3585

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 Sometimes your assumption sets are off. Hero’s mistake here is incorrectly removing 74/42 from SB’s preflop calling range. However once he arrives on river, hero has to continue with his read and value bet accordingly. If hero believes 1) Sb doesn’t have him beat and 2) SB will call a jam at a high enough frequency to make it more profitable then 300; then of course jam is the right play. Confidence is important in this game. I’d much rather go with my assumptions then check back river worried my opponent has a hand that was never in range to begin with.

@erroreliminator2.076

3 жыл бұрын

@@brimwnobrim3585 How many hands of 42 in the range of possible holdings the V had here... a small percentage. 74 is outrageous if he did have it in him to play that.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

@@brimwnobrim3585 , "a hand that was never in range to begin with" - yet somehow Villain had such a hand. Hero forgot rule #1 - know your opponent. Hero dubbed Villain "loose passive", 2-4 went from unlikely to definitely should be considered. Hero obviously didn't think it through. He never assigned a probability of how often Villain would call a shove - he just said he "thought" he could get enough crying calls and paid the price. Even Bart gave his value betting to be $350.

even if villain isn't loose passive I would still mainly fold turn live. Who ever bluff raises turn on A high boards vs PFA? xD

@Gos1234567

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly,its very rare.Forget pots odds/combos,GTO this guy is not bluffing.Its even pretty rare online with A high boards

Very nice call, smart young caller, good conversation

It really sucks that the villain wakes up with 42dd there. What a cooler

@crushlivepoker I really enjoyed that you called Jacksonville "Years Behind" and one of the easiest/action packed places to play. What are your other cities/states you find the games to be easy/similar? Which ones are on your toughest list? Thanks!

Hey Harry. Do you stream your tournaments?

Imagine getting called ridiculous and "just YEARS behind" lol I gotta play there

I am more curious to see what villian has, than I am value betting after getting check raised. The info is more valuable for future hands against an unknown.

Wow, the caller did his homework and was very prepared. Great analysis. He’s this good at 21 yrs of age, I’d hate to be at his table in a few years.

On the turn the caller describes Villain as loose passive. Sometimes poker is easy. In this situation, against a loose passive, I'm applying Beluga's Theorem and folding my one pair hands.

I would love to hear a rebuttal to some of these call in hands sometimes. For instance, a 21 year old kid has been raising and been very aggressive thinking he can just run the table. I've been calling with some very speculative hands from all positions because I know if I hit my hand he will put a lot of pressure (money) on me. I flop a gut shot on an ace high board. I know he is gonna represent the ace but my 2 or 4 could be good so I call his flop bet. I then hit the miracle turn so now I have to figure out how to get the most out of him. So I let him keep up his aggression and then hit him with basically a min raise. He can't help himself even though he's drawing dead. He's gonna show me (in my best rounders voice) will not be pushed around. The board pairs on the river. I check again figuring he will take a stab at it and I'll do the double check raise. Then he just shoves. Now I know I'm calling but I want him to squirm a little. I wait until now he just"knows" he has the best hand. Then I hit him with the old I guess I call. He rolls it over so confidently for a moment a thought he really did have AA. Then I show him the bad news. Take a sip of my coffee and rake the chips.

@brimwnobrim3585

3 жыл бұрын

Lmaoo this is hilarious

@TheIronyoshi

3 жыл бұрын

Take a sip of my coffee 😂

@jamespreston7038

2 жыл бұрын

Calls with players still to act both pre and post flop With one of the worst hands he will ever have 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Funny story tho

@kobinakasone127

2 жыл бұрын

I want to play against YOU 😂

Every Ax on flop from A9 down to A2 have back door straight draws if not two pair. Can def size up

Title of the video: "How to read hands." Result: totally failed to read the hand, lol!

@_Coffee4Closers

3 жыл бұрын

So you think that he would lose in this spot more than he wins? I think his read was rationale and long term correct. You and other here sound results oriented.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

@@_Coffee4Closers, Hero got stacked for no good reason. Villain playing with 2-4 like a nit doesn't help, but how often would a "loose passive" player call a shove at the river in such a situation where his 2 pair got counterfeited? Villain might be loose passive, but that doesn't mean they're an idiot and will call any river shove.

@_Coffee4Closers

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 I think you don't count combos so well, and are results oriented. And I think poker is easy AFTER the cards are known and you can claim you would have known all along you opponent some how played that bad to show up with what he did.

@arcadion448

3 жыл бұрын

@@_Coffee4Closers, you're that guy "who's good at poker but just had bad luck for XXX years" aren't you? The issue at hand is that Hero pegged Villain as "loose passive" but dismissed a 2-4 hand too easily. But even that wasn't as bad as unnecessarily getting stacked by shoving all-in on the river.

@_Coffee4Closers

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcadion448 LOL... I play professionally and make a decent living but ok. Have been a winning player for both tournament and cash for 18 years.

Logically we will rule out 4 2 and 4 7 😂😂😂 and the fact he tanked on that board lol

@ZeraLord

3 жыл бұрын

Right? Like he should snap call, even if mubsy. "You got A6 or spiked a 3, good for you."

@nicks210684

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeraLord opening from the button hero can have all offsuit combos of A6 as well as AA, 66, 55, 65s. I’m still snap calling though.

@ZeraLord

3 жыл бұрын

@@nicks210684 I mean, you aren't wrong. But the way the hand was played, he shouldn't be that scared of a boat. That's just being mubsy.

@nicks210684

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeraLord yeah absolutely. There’s so many worse hands that can bet the river. Not to mention bluffs with missed hearts.

THIS is what happens when you’re so obsessed with gto, solvers, robotic playing, etc that you fail to read your opponent correctly. Poker is and always has been a social game (online being an exception). A poker player should have a feel for the table and a feel for his opponents. Getting check raised on the turn there just screams that your AK is beat and possibly drawing dead.

Slam DUNK river bet. Hero is good 96% of the time here and villain often has a counterfeit two pair that will call. (and just as I typed this, Bart says what I just said almost verbatim.)

Since we don’t have a casino in the city we tend to play stupid gambling style poker in jacksonville to get our fix best 2/5 game that I played

And that is called value owning yourself!

I'm only at the turn part of this call. But at these levels when you get check raised small, it is a set a high percentage of the time. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

@SenorJoeBiden

3 жыл бұрын

My thoughts were pocket 3s

@kalan5367

3 жыл бұрын

Similar Bink. Nice read

I'm C betting the flop with $60 into a pot ~$100. Small blind calling the bet, but checking the turn tells me to check the turn as well OR toss in a pot size bet. Given the check raise on the turn by the SB, my sense of checking it was right but gotta call the raise. Checking the river is the smartest thing to do, imo, taking any win with glee.

@nicholasdemetriades9154

2 жыл бұрын

For sure. From the description he gave of a loose passive player who raises your turn bet the card had to have helped his hand. Its not worth trying to extract value here. You get to see his hand anyway and can save $600+ to use as ammo later against this player.

42dd sounds about right for loose and passive. They just seen what they think is a pretty drawing hand.

Playing 2/5 V1 bets 20 I 3b 60 w KK V2 calls, V1 4bets 120 I fold (he is 83 years old and would never 4 bet with anything less than AA). V2 calls 4 bet with JJ. Flop: JT5R V1 bets 120 V2 goes all in for 300 more V1 calls. V2 wins with JJJ against AA

When a passive player raises you on the turn, you have to fold ! I prefer to call hands like flush draws in this spot than AK to improve on the river !

@iamdavidjacob3560

3 жыл бұрын

AA or Axhh is fine to call turn, basically folding everything else, and folding the river if I dona improve

The Baluga Theorem holds true. Time to drop the single pair.

Soon as the SB made that big bet; should have folded...It's obvious the turn 3 gave him SOMETHING. I thought he had a set; either way; it's a fold. It's hard to fold AK... I know the feeling well.

In the A/Ko hand he mentioned the small blind betting into 2 other players should represent his hand being strong. Well. The majority of lower stakes games I've played in most the time players bet into the field hitting bottom pair trash kicker. Majority of the time players at these stakes just bet on whatever matches something in their hand. Hardly is it that they have strong hands. Or they seen a video somewhere that says it makes them look strong and bet to represent that. In fact most lower stakes games defy any logical play theory. Calling $25 pre flop all day with crap and getting paid off.

I LOLD when he said 42dd

Commenting at 6:32 in video on villain raise. Guessing A-5 suited.

@josephadcock7449

3 жыл бұрын

Boy did the end of the video have a surprise for you

Flat calling from the SB with the second to nut low BLECH! Rough hand sorry caller.

Playing 2/5 V calls 15 pf/ on flop I bet 60 with QQ (board 935R) LA player instantly raises to $660. Tough call but he acted to quick + I had stacked him earlier so I had to call. turn T/ I chk again quickly he goes all in for $1400. I thought if he had 2 pair+ he would at least take 5 seconds to think how much to bet to get a call. I called & he had A8. River was another 9

I really liked this caller !

This is what Bart always refers to as “Out to lunch”.

So, how to read this (opponent) hand?

@iamdavidjacob3560

3 жыл бұрын

He has 2 pair plus on turn, usually 33 or the straight though

@pot_kivach160

3 жыл бұрын

@@iamdavidjacob3560 / so, betting/calling turn was a good advice. Even so, shoving the river! 😂

How does villain show up with that😂 I love playing in central and north Florida but sometimes it’s pots like this that just make me wanna quit the game😭

What to say other than that is this for real don't you think 42 for a straight he should have bet it for value on his own & a player of his caliber who is tanking on the river bet should have bet on his own because we are sure he is not trapping or he had though as far like we would bet here considering that counterfeit on river

cant do much, whatever bet sizing you put in the river, hes going to go over the top. I put him on A 7 to A 4 of hearts. villian was trickery.

caller sounds like landon tice from solve for why

@kalan5367

3 жыл бұрын

Agree

@xxWh1teboixx

3 жыл бұрын

I was trying to see if someone else said this. Sounds exactly like Landon to me, and I think he may be 21 as well?

@xxWh1teboixx

3 жыл бұрын

Just looked it up, he is 21. Even the inflection in his voice sounds like Landon. It has to be him lol

@andrewflaherty8638

3 жыл бұрын

came to the comments to say this

I dont understand how people expect logic play at casinos. In a 2-5 game any raise from 10-40 can get called by any 2 cards... Literally. 50 is a psychological lvl that eliminates alot of action.. but suited cards will still want to see flops from bad players, which are everywhere

i definitely would have checked back the river

And 4 2 takes the whole stack jeeze

(3:33-4:00) It is counterintuitive to suggest a player is overplaying hands like offsuit aces that wont fold to a large bet and then immediately suggest (4:09-4:40) that they’re competent enough to recognize there is a player left to act and adjust their calling range accordingly. It’s either one or the other. Player is competent or not. Cant be both.

@CrushlivePoker

3 жыл бұрын

I hope I conveyed that as well

@CallMeKap_

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, by the end of the video it was very clear you were talking about conventional wisdom and not specifically referencing this villain. Great vid as always!

Folding this hand pre flop is the most optimal play

@godbluffvdgg

3 жыл бұрын

:)...Good one...

The caller sounds like Landon

say LIKE HES GOD WIT HTHE MIND OF THE UNKONWNS IN JVILL

You check the river, the only hand that calls ur all in there has you beat. Bad move going all in on the river.

How can you say these games are so soft, but that he can't have 74 or 42? I've seen so many people who will just play almost any two suited cards.

@josheisert8380

3 жыл бұрын

Just like how he was saying the villain is probably not putting hero on anything in reference to his incompetence yet makes a play on the river giving villain enough credit to not be playing 2-4 or 4-7. I find alot of inconsistencies in these hand reviews in reference to making plays against an opponent like they are a thinking player when shortly before they were talked about as if they were a blind monkey. Particularly value betting the river. I take what I get out of them. You have to remember he is doing these on the fly over the phone and it's alot easier for us to think about it then put our 2 cents in than it is for him to have every answer on the spot. But yeah I check back there if I think the player is capable of playing any two from his position in this scenario. I didn't see the need to go for more $ on the river.

@samc4531

3 жыл бұрын

@@josheisert8380 I agree, I see a lot of these inconsistencies, but I still get some value from it.

@iamawuss

3 жыл бұрын

I take the inconsistency as a reminder of how complex poker is.

@kobinakasone127

2 жыл бұрын

@@josheisert8380 tbh I think you’re looking at it wrong. Bart tends to ignore “reads” more often than not because by doing so he provides a more relatable situation to every viewer. Imagine looking at these spots with reads in mind ON TOP of analyzing proper play. There’s simply too much to cover in 20min if we’re talking about reads and it muddles up knowledge Bart is trying to highlight more often than not

Turn is a check all dayyyyyy lmao you just got done saying hes never folding a rag ace, this board SMACKS a SB flat range.

Didn't know Walter White Jr. played poker!

I must be doing some wrong then...... I live in JAX......

All you have to do with guys that overthink hands, like blocker nonsense, check raise and print money. Having an ace on flush board means nothing, no chance you have same suit. Just check raise Bart all day.

I’d just blast myself at the table when he turned that over

This is a fold for the ace on the turn if he bets

I bet SB has (88

Clown punting with 4-deuce suited LOL... just like online playmoney

Playing weird hands against these over thinkers freaks them out. Show a shit hand then play solid, they won't know what to do bc they think u r lag.

The flop bet was simply too small.

overplayed the AK.

No reason to lose 1k with 2 pair here in a 2 5 game. So many things beat you. People don't control pot or preserve their stack anymore.

Title was how to read hands but you were completely wrong on your read ..

Passive players raising is never a good sign.

Good call bart...not

@CrushlivePoker

3 жыл бұрын

I thought it was a great call

@iamdavidjacob3560

3 жыл бұрын

@@CrushlivePoker It was interesting. It showed why things like "pot odds" and MDF can be overblown and just plain wrong. The villain in this hand 100% has us beat, and its over 90% to be a hand we have no equity against.

🤢🤢🤢

He should be kicked out of the game for the knit roll

@bondjames5874

3 жыл бұрын

i think he was worried about a boat. still amazing he took that long to call.