i need more of these "stockfish ruined chess" videos where you find positions that used to be one outcome but turns out to be something else

@hs6_54

Ай бұрын

Yeah the nuance of chess was what made it really cool. You never knew for sure if a game had to go a certain way, you could always study a game you played hard and find some things you missed or what your opponent missed. Now you just plug it into an engine and you get pretty much all of your answers immediately and most of what stockfish says is definitively accurate. It just isn’t as cool anymore, but it’s still a great game. I just wish chess engines weren’t a thing.

I didn't even notice what Stockfish noticed when trying to find the solution to the puzzle. Stockfish is brilliant at finding these hidden ideas inside the puzzle.

This could just be a very hard "Black Wins" puzzle then!

@GMBlunderfish1

9 ай бұрын

White to draw LOSES puzzle

Strange: it looks like it should have been discovered sooner :) Once you see the main racing variant Qd8 looks obvious…

@jojopro6590

Жыл бұрын

I agree it seems really obvious. Especially if you consider that there are not only a few puzzels which work with similar ideas (making the king one step to slow somehow)

@Molten404

Жыл бұрын

Yes I saw that move and I am not even that good at chess

5:32 you could've moved rook to c3 and pinned queen to king

@fsf471

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't see the refutation

@briandear1401

Жыл бұрын

The pawn can take the rook

@bradfooks4485

Жыл бұрын

You mean at 4:58 instead of pushing the pawn you pin the Queen After the trade of Queen and Rook it's two pawns versus a knight for black

@Remithedebater

Жыл бұрын

@@fsf471 dawg

@KrXYT

Жыл бұрын

@@bradfooks4485 But white still has the pawn to promote

Again Stockfish ruins chess! It can be a win if there is pawn on a-file.

@abdallahhakeem5185

Жыл бұрын

I think it just improved it here, a much more satisfying solution imo

@johnb6723

Жыл бұрын

It is just correcting ancient errors.

@abdallahhakeem5185

Жыл бұрын

@@johnb6723 Specifically for these limited endgames where there's such a forcing line, definitely I feel that the chess AIs just unveil even more of the beauty in chess, especially in conjunction with different human positions

@TheSimCaptain

Жыл бұрын

@abdallahhakeem5185 It's ruined because the composer designed it so that white could draw against all odds. Now black can win, It's just what we expected so there's no surprise.

@marcusorban2439

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheSimCaptain black was always able to win. But noone saw it until now. Im split on this whole chess AI thing. In this case, stockfish found one move, that changed everything. And tbh, it wasnt that inhuman, it was a pretty natural distraction move. But sometimes they come up with lines which dont make any sense at this point and just play out in like 20 moves later. Thats where the game becomes boring.

Congratulations sir for 200k 🎉🎉🎉

more vids like this! I love stockfish. The pursuit of truth!

Good job Stockfish. 😁👍🏾 IDK how during the ...Qxc5 capture line the composer missed after White queens that Black's queen DOESN'T have to accept the trade of queens along the a-file, she can move to the eighth rank and force White's king to stay on said rank. Now Black has the opposition with the pawns and White can't stop them both in time. That honestly should have been an easy find...but I digress. 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

Basically, if you're going to trade queens, trade on your terms, not the enemy's.

I wonder how many old puzzles stockfish could destroy if people bothered giving them to it

@mattemathias3242

Жыл бұрын

It's amazing how fast stockfish can fully analyze an endgame, while a human would have to spend many hours, even days just to find all the best moves I've never personally used stockfish, but I'm guessing a position like this barely took stockfish 1 minute to fully evaluate and "ruin"

the arrow at the bottom right is so useful omg

I loved this puzzle .plus my level is growing up from you and levy (gothem chess).

@art-games6230

Жыл бұрын

Me too

Happy to say I found what Stockfish found, just a simple deflection to gain tempo. But of course, it helped me to know first that: (1)He mentioned there's a flaw (2)He explained the composer's logic behind the other moves

@timhuson4800

Жыл бұрын

I don't believe it took stockfish to find that move. Most who know something about chess, when put in that position as a puzzle (not in a real game) would find that move. That's the very point of a puzzle, to examine each position and see if alternatives would save the game, etc. Any chess mind, even a poor one like mine, would solve it if they took the time. Not a difficult idea at all, to make a different move at that point.

@danielhoang289

Жыл бұрын

@@timhuson4800 Agreed, let's have that be my 3rd reason: (3)Simple enough of an idea for more average minds to find

5:02 maybe the rook can pin the queen on 3c and its protected by the knight, thats my guess and i think its a nice move. (correct me if im wrong about anything i didnt watchthe full video yet)

@madkiwi9358

Жыл бұрын

i think it still would be a loss for white they would push their pawn on b5

@jaysonraneses8347

Жыл бұрын

i also think that way when i watched it

@jaysonraneses8347

Жыл бұрын

i also think the same way

@user-ct7ix8nz1w

5 ай бұрын

Then white easily loses , bc Knight can't stop these 2 Pawns

5:02 theres a way for white to guarantee a draw or even win, Rc3 pinning the queen to the king and the queen cant take because of the knight defending.

Brilliant indeed

5:00 what about rook c3? It skewers the queen and the king and if you take the rook with the queen, then the knight captures the queen

@stanleydodds9

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that it simply doesn't matter. After rook c3, either capture by black sacrifices the queen, but is still a tablebase win for black. You are kind of correct in that knight takes queen prolongs the game to something like mate in 19. After knight takes queen, black takes the pawn on b6. Then it's just a long tedious process of black slowly pushing its 2 remaining pawns, while white can't do enough because at this point they only have a king and a knight. Black eventually gets a queen, and then its mate shortly after.

@TCG-Collector77

4 ай бұрын

That's what i wanted to ask!

I think the fact that black wins is actually more pretty than the intended solution of the draw. It is white's turn, and he can only stall, but he can make it very tricky for black. They should make more puzzles like this... ironically the composer did make something pretty like this without intending to.

Dude stock fish is insane. I remember this one line that stock fish finds and im literally like “oops, my bad stock fish.” It goes 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Bc4 Bc5 5. d3 d6 6. O-O Bg4 7. Nd5 Ne7 8. Nxf6+ gxf6 and then the top stock fish move is KNIGHT TAKES e5. Hanging both the queen and the knight at the same time.

@Joseph-El.atrache

Жыл бұрын

Nc6 twice played?

@Joseph-El.atrache

Жыл бұрын

There's several moves that don't make sense such as Nxf6+ , there's nothing there to capture .

found every move in less than a minute I feel very strong now

That was actually quiet simple even I saw qd8

Omg I actually figured this one out

That's a really clever puzzle

Time traveler:Alright. I have an idea

That sounds like the type of thing that could be the intended solution for a other puzzle.

The composer of this puzzle: *Creates this puzzle* Stockfish be like:

I didn't see the original idea, but I wondered whether ... Qd8 would make White lose a tempo.

Who would have guess that chess can be this entertaining...

@jiogcyihsugyiocjfdoivhphvw6821

Жыл бұрын

me. i did

Nowadays, you have to feed a puzzle to Stockfish or another top program before submitting it for publication. If you don't, someone else will and put a bullet through it if there's any flaw.

6:40 “it’s still a draw” when the goal is to draw

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

It's a win for black, not a draw. What are you talking about?

The fish did it again

On 5:02 white can skewer king and queen of black with rook and it is protected by knight

@jagapata6073

Жыл бұрын

Black is winning after kxb6 Knight can't stop two connected pawns

@sumankumari-qr4um

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you are correct. I am wrong.

Honestly...this seems like a really obvious idea after you understand that it's a race. Why would it take Stockfish to get this.

At 2:23 why can’t black play Qd5 or Qe4? Wouldn’t that pin the pawn? And if they move the king, the queen can just pin it in a different way.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Nc3 becomes a fork and black loses their queen.

at time 5:01 what if white playes rook to c3 pinning the queen and wining the queen for the rook? feels like win for white

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

i actually saw other stuff to make probably a draw earlier if you take with the queen, force with rook the queen? did someone play that out?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

What sequence are you talking about?

I also saw that move easily. 😂

In the position at 05:05, what if white plays Rb3-c3 instead of pushing the pawn? The analysis does not cover it, but white will win the black queen for the white rook.

Easy fix, the puzzle is now Black to Win after White moves.

The moment he said queen takes I knew it had to be that. It was weird that black would want to trade Queens there especially when it became a race. Obviously they won't want to perpetual to win so the trade is on the back rank.

I have a stupid question. at 2:20 instead of the queen going to check the king which does nothing what about pinning the pawn by moving the queen to D-5?

@user-ct7ix8nz1w

5 ай бұрын

Then you gets forked by Knight

one problem is you could also pin the queen to the king with the rook after queen takes rook and then you have a position i believe is drawable

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

@blhsia

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta Weird I thought the knight would hold it something like Na3 or something

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

​@@blhsia At what point do you intend to go Na3, and how do you intend on pinning the queen with a rook if not with Rc3 when knight is on b1?

@5:06 how about RC3? Pins the queen?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

Tal or other WC could have seen that. Didnt need stockfish

At 4:58 after queen takes the first rook couldnt white just play Rc3 to pin and capture the queen instead?

Can someone explain why pinning the queen after the first rook sac is a bad move?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

@mr.fun6343

Жыл бұрын

Seems like a draw because the knight can take the b pawn

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@mr.fun6343 Kxb5 leaves white with a king at a8 against the black king at b5 and a pawn at a4. White has no way to prevent black from getting a queen. How is this a draw in any way?

@mr.fun6343

Жыл бұрын

I honestly don’t know what I was thinking when I said that

at 4:58 is there any reason you cant go Rc3 to pin the queen?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

after queen captures rook, can't white play rook to c3 to capture queen back?

@gerardmonsen1267

Жыл бұрын

King takes white pawn. Rook takes Queen, King takes Rook. Black wins endgame. Edit: Actually, even better is Queen takes Rook, Knight takes Queen, King takes pawn. This makes it easier for black's king to cut off the white king.

@kanalisationerstellen

Жыл бұрын

@@gerardmonsen1267 hmm with some clever knight moves might be still possible

Insted of pown push to B7, better move foe white is rook to to C3 pining the quin. Should be a win for white

@Nico-ut2kg

Жыл бұрын

Q×c3 Sxc3 Kxb6 And Black wins with this 2 pawns against tue knight

@johnathanpatrick6118

Жыл бұрын

IDK about that. Black can unpin his queen with ...Kxb6, and all White would have is a knight if he should sacrifice his rook for Black's queen. I still think Black has the edge.

@2:21 qd5 opens other lines that weren't considered.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Nc3 is a fork that ends up killing the black queen

Is possible in minute 5:01 the move for white rook c3?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

I think in 2097 we re gonna see the refutation of the refutation of the refutation from Stockfish 1764 NNUE

6:36 take the knight king moves to d5 white rook moves to d3 ? How would that play out ?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Leads to a rather long line, with small-depth engine analysis getting two queens as black (and still having a pawn) while taking all of the remaining white pieces. Black still wins.

On 5:02 white can skewer queen and king of black

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

@TooFewSecrets

Жыл бұрын

White will be left with no pawns and an unsupported knight that can't stop promotion.

At 4:58 instead of moving the pawn, can't white play rook to c3? Forcing the queen to trade with the rook?

@Fizzy0imbA

Жыл бұрын

King takes white pawn and if u trade, knight will not stop two remaining pawns

Does not seem to take Stockfish to find it, does it?

if after b4 and you promote to a queen, black has a trick to win (check vertically then horizontally) so the study is flawed, so what if instead you promote to knight (after b4) if that's a draw then there's no flaw (meaning that because promotion to queen gives black a chance to win, it's the wrong move)?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

How do you promote 'after b4'? If you mean 'after b8' at about 6:29, then Kb5 seems to, at worst for black, devolve into what happened when promoting to a queen.

At 5:02, wouldn't Rd3 be a draw (I guess not, but why)

At 5:30, why not pin the queen with the rook and then queen the pawn?

@nothaman1345

Жыл бұрын

I too would like to know

@ayuplaygames

Жыл бұрын

Black will take the pawn And after white take the queen, black will take the rook. And then white king and knight can't stop both of black pass pawn, so black is going to win

@byronwatkins2565

Жыл бұрын

@@ayuplaygames There is no legal way to take the pawn.

@eriksteffahn6172

Жыл бұрын

@@byronwatkins2565 King takes b6 is legal.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Another way to do this: Queen takes the rook at c3 Knight takes the queen at c3 King takes the pawn at b6 Result: white king is cut off, and white king+knight can't win the endgame.

What if before promoting the pawn, the rook captures a black pawn? Will the white king still be slower? Edit: I'm sorry, that's a mate in 3.

@saisamarth4989

Жыл бұрын

How is it mate in 3? I thought it's losing BC of qh5+ forcing the king to block the pawn then taking the room. Im assuming you're talking about the b5 stockfish line

7:09 I don't believe it took stockfish to find that move. If nobody found it, that was because nobody spent much time looking. I found it right away, and I'm a below average chess player.

I wonder if a human found the refutation first!

I have a question why not after queen takes the rock we move the rock to c3 and force black to lose the queen

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

How!!!!Now that I see it it's so obvious

Please state at start of the video if it's white or black to play so I don't have to go through spoilers to try and do the puzzle.

But why make the knight move? Just leave it there and they can't queen until the king gets in range and in the mean time move your king and you wouldn't be a move behind, right? Or do you have to move the Knight for some reason?

@michaelvana2457

Жыл бұрын

yeah i dont understand the knightmove either

@notacoffee

Жыл бұрын

If white goes a7 first, Kb5 still prevents you from being ahead of the black king

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't seem to make a difference. Black king going to b5 blocks the white king anyway. White is still a move behind.

@FrenkieWest32

Жыл бұрын

The black king would still block the white king by going to B5.

Why Rook c3 pinning the queen to king doesn't work??

Why can't White pin Black's queen with Rc3? Is it a losing endgame after Queen takes Rook, Knight takes Queen, King takes Pawn?

@chesterlai485

Жыл бұрын

This will still be a win for black

@keyboardclicks

Жыл бұрын

yes, black wins

7:34

1957th

Kings Indian variation is interesting but question which fianchetto is most effective? Silican Dragon? Pirc Defense main line? Catalan fianchetto? Or standard Kings Indian fianchetto? What is the better fianchetto? What do you think Nelson?

What happens when, after black takes the rook with the queen, the other rook moves to threaten the queen, pinning her between the rook and the king?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

At 5mins, once black takes on C5, can't white play Rc3? Or does it end up where the white king is too far away?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

I somehow saw the line that stockfish found... I'm a 500 ;-;

You're missing some important words on the screen. "White to play and draw."

4:57 what if rc3

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

At 4:56, what would happen if white goes rook to c3?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

@defenestrator227

Жыл бұрын

Black plays Kxb6. White could trade their rook for the black queen, but then they're in a losing position.

At 6:07 in video black king move left and then white king can’t capture pawn.

@jakeshotdog3525

Жыл бұрын

And then black take knight and then go protect pawn black wins

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeshotdog3525 White can just go Ka2. If black goes b1, then Nxb1 forces a draw; if black goes Kxd2, then white goes Kxb2, forcing a draw (which is what you are suggesting, and what is, effectively, the same as what is shown right after 6:07). There is no way for black to both defend the black pawn and capture the knight.

Wait:what about rook to c 3 when the queen is gonna take

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

Now, it's a brilliant puzzle for black to win.

at 5:00 why not rook to c3

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

5:06 rook can pin the queen

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

"king cant take pawn its getting guarded by white king" How is the king on a8 guarding a pawn on b6?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

If you are talking about after white moves pawn to b7, then it's black to move, not white, and white has no way to pin the queen.

how about rook to c3?

@jaysonraneses8347

Жыл бұрын

pinning the queen and king? maybe its a win for white?

Edit:putting my last remark up. Okay, no, that's : checkmate for blacks if king in b6, my bad. I would have done rook b3 taking pawn b5. And I think white can even keeps the two rooks that way, while sacrifying the white pawn. I would like to understand how white does not win this.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

'I would have done rook b3 taking pawn b5. And I think white can even keeps the two rooks that way, while sacrifying the white pawn' King immediately takes the rook. How do you intend on keeping both of the rooks?

@xaviersanson6604

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta Cannot, if knight goes in a3 - check + defend the rook, but then blacks' king takes the pawn and regardless of whites move, blacks check mate. That's why I wondered if blacks had a better play, but it didn't worked. But if whites use this to get a queen and blacks exchanged, we find ourselves almost back to shown positions in the video.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

​@@xaviersanson6604 'Cannot, if knight goes in a3 - check + defend the rook' If you start with Na3, then Qh8 leads to a fairly quick mate, and you don't get to play Rb5 in the first place.

What about the knight to d2?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

At what point in the game?

@ddplayz2489

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta 1st move

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@ddplayz2489 What does that achieve? Black just goes Qe8+, forcing Ka7, then Qe7+, at which point white king has to go a6 (if Ka8 or Kb8, then Qb7 is checkmate), then Qb7+, forcing Ka5, and then Qxb6 is checkmate.

@ddplayz2489

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta damn I didn’t see that

On 5.02 minute white can skewer queen and king of black

@mrrandom347

Жыл бұрын

It would be winning for black in that case too

@Nico-ut2kg

Жыл бұрын

Q×c3 Sxc3 Kxb6 And Black wins with this 2 pawns against tue knight

@sumankumari-qr4um

Жыл бұрын

If white skewers then black will have to take rook with queen and knight will take queen so white can make queen and stop the 2 pawns of black from promoting and win easily

@sumankumari-qr4um

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you all are correct. I was wrong.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@sumankumari-qr4um How does the knight stop the two pawns from promoting?

But why can't we pin the queen to the king?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

Strange, i found it by myself when looking at the checks. It's not that hard really to see when to trade queens for a better position. Kinda strange Stockfish had to find this because that's not all that hard or complicated.

It is win for white

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

How?

Eight

White to draw but there is no solution??????

2:27 why not pin the pawn?

@kogmawmain8872

Жыл бұрын

Because Nc3+ forks the King and Queen (and pawn)

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@kogmawmain8872 Nc3. I was confused by your king movements and ability to fork queens and other kings.

@kogmawmain8872

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta oh right, thanks

come on even i could see it tho

Bzdura. 5.10 Rouge b3-c3 and white wins

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

Stop saying stockfish is ruining chess. Stockfish's chess engines are the most powerful and they're are fastest

C3

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

If it's about pinning the queen with a rook: Queen takes rook, knight takes queen, king takes pawn. Black wins endgame.

Crazi

nye

fourth