Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: t2m.io/OrangeRiver and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion ⚡Drake⚡ Available only for new players 🎁 Use the promo code JTSKIN to get the Epic champion Stag Knight and a Skin for Stag Knight designed by JonTron! Don't miss your chance, the promo code is valid until October 7th, only for new players. 📱 If you are an iOS user, enter the promo code here: plarium.com/en/redeem/raid-shadow-legends/

@beepboop204

8 ай бұрын

@fiveyearmission9987

8 ай бұрын

Why would I want something made by a racist like JonTron?

@AzraelThanatos

8 ай бұрын

You missed the Precurser/Protogenitor/Preserver (sometimes called the same group) that created most humanoid life in the galaxy that Picard and several people from other powers uncovers a message from. And there's the fun theory that the ENTIRE ST Universe(s) are a far distant future where humanity eventually became the Preservers who made several recreations of Earth...potentially, they also became other species such as the Q (Which would be an explanation for why Q and a few other Q are so interested in humanity).

@wearegeek

8 ай бұрын

I understand that you need sponsors, but this is an outright scam.

@beepboop204

8 ай бұрын

@@wearegeek tell me captain virtue signalling, how is it an "outright scam"?

I'm honestly baffled that so many people thought Star Trek was supposed to be our exact specific future and not a hypothetical "wouldn't it be great if we all just got along?" fantastical future and then proceeded to be disappointed that the Eugenics Wars and World War 3 did not happen exactly when it did in the show in our reality. That's some next level delusion.

@mem1701movies

8 ай бұрын

Well when you’re a kid it seemed great

@timothyhiggins8934

8 ай бұрын

I think too many people live in a fantastic state. And i don't mean that in a positive light

@bigbadhodad3894

7 ай бұрын

well there is the old theory that Roddenberry was a time traveler who came back to make a hopeful show about his past to inspire us to be better to strive for that future and unfortunately we got the Pronoun Wars rather than Eugenics.

I am and always have been fine with Star Trek being in an alternate timeline to ours, our histories don’t have to match exactly.

@jamesburns8530

8 ай бұрын

@martychisnall,I agree .

@MEHoward

8 ай бұрын

Except for the whole Irish reunification, of course.

@TJ52359

8 ай бұрын

which would be well and good except that Every Series since TOS, for Budgetary, creative or Soap-Box-y reasons, finds a Time Travel Contrivance to send (a Member of) the crew to the 'Present day" of when the series filmed

@AzraelThanatos

8 ай бұрын

There's always the potential that Star Trek is an even further distant future, there's an interesting theory that combines the large number of Earths that appear in the Star Trek universe with the preservers...they're some future form of humanity that, essentially, recreated the past which led to the entire universe issue.

@deadend1041

8 ай бұрын

​@@TJ52359 I don't remember that happening in star trek deep space 9. They did go to 2024 and there are some really creepy similarities with what's going on in San Francisco and what has been going on. But that was made back and I believe 95. It's kind of funny because things are going to go exactly the opposite of the way they did in those star trek episodes. The inbalances in our society will get corrected but not in the direction they didn't star trek

DS9's portrayal of Americans cities in the 2020s is pretty spot on. Seemed crazy in the 90s to think they'd end up as hell holes but here we are.

My ultimate headcanon reconcile is that Gene Roddenberry was a marooned Admiral from the 29th Century Starfleet... and he just decided to hell with the temporal prime directive, he wanted to make money and have fun. This is simply an in universe solution to ours being the same... not an explanation or an endpoint or anyting...

@MichaelKnaepen

8 ай бұрын

I agree, also my head canon jokingly too, but that we are the mirror universe and was trapped here and created the utopian scifi show to stop our inevitable future

@TheIrvy

8 ай бұрын

@@MichaelKnaepen That would explain all the goatees.

@Squato

8 ай бұрын

Don't forgot making sure all the females wear mini-skirts. Gene: "It is a key and deeply fundermental component of this series that things are shown this way. To do otherwise means loosing what makes the work stand for what is important."

@TheIrvy

8 ай бұрын

@@Squato Is there something wrong with women wearing mini skirts? Context is King, and in the 1960s mini skirts were a symbol of liberation from a stodgier time when women had to wear long skirts to cover themselves up, and the older generation then found them scandalous. Perhaps all those old fogies are now reincarnated and they brought their old fashioned prudishness with them into this life?

@Squato

8 ай бұрын

Nah, it is a joke about how he had a rep for doing things like that (see them showing up even during TNG, and then later making the men have them as well, when tastes had changed). There has been jokes about this with him for decades. More so since other Gene did the actual creative stuff that people liked.@@TheIrvy

So essentially the Star Trek universe had a dark past because it didn't have a TV franchise that demonstrated an ideal futuristic utopia to future leaders and scientists, likely because it was seen as too derivative of Captain Proton.

@tonoornottono

8 ай бұрын

captain proton is easily the best part of voyager

It all started diverging when the dinosaurs started to build spaceships instead of just becoming extinct 🦖

@khandallah4725

8 ай бұрын

​@@subraxas is this canon? i have always presumed they built and traveled in starships under their own volition. sorry the story has been run down to another abduction troupe.

@JoeSmith-cy9wj

8 ай бұрын

Yes, we should have known. Cha-ka, was a little too annoying for the sleestaks.

IMO, it didn't diverge -- it paralleled ours, but it was never at any point identical. Same thing as with the Fallout franchise.

Idea for future video: a list or exploration of erased timelines in Star Trek, first example to come to mind is the episode in DS9 where they find a planet of their descendants

For anyone who wants to see what happens when Starfleet becomes aware of Star Trek in the 1960s, check out REDSHIRTS by John Scalzi.

The point of divergence is The Big Bang. That show really slowed down human development.

For me, the point of divergence is TOS' "The Naked Now". The Enterprise was supposed to be destroyed due to the planet's gravity well. Spock changed that by having the ship go back into the past, thus "time travel" was invented.

@thecaptain6730

8 ай бұрын

“I’ll take you home again, Kathleen.” The TOS episode was entitled “The Naked Time.” Although in my house, we call it: “The Undressed Time” for reasons of modesty. ;)

When I was a kid, I wanted Star Trek to be a direct guide for our future. As an adult- I work in a Library call center We answer anything I once had a person call from within my library, less then 5 meters away from the help desk, asking where the keyboard was I said “well, every computer has a keyboard, did you ask the-“ “Oh, it’s a pull out, never mind” You…you called and sat thought the que for our department of 3 callers for the whole county, didn’t bother with the people 5 meters from you…only to realize you didn’t pull out the keyboard, and hung up on us? Your first thought, before even looking for your keyboard, was to wait in a help line? My faith in human ingenuity has never been lower.

I've always liked the idea of Star Trek past being different from ours because it just makes their Universe seem more exciting and different and it becomes totally moot anyway when you realize we are living in the universe where it's all of big TV show and series of movies which automatically makes it completely impossible for our world to be the past of Star Trek at all because there's no Star Trek in the future when it's a TV show now

The Lieutenant got picked up for 3 seasons, Desilu collapse. Point of divergence.

Honestly, I don't see this question ever getting solved as they like to slide the timeline to fit the story. However, I also don't think a specific point really matters.

@ThommyofThenn

8 ай бұрын

I agree we can get hung up on dates but that is part of the fun!

@ellemueller

8 ай бұрын

​@@subraxasAlas, there IS a stated reason: In an interview, Terry Matalas stated that they wanted SNW to feel as though it would be "our future", which are his words; furthermore stating they wanted this because they wanted it to feel just as possible for SNW to be our brighter future the same way TOS felt to audiences viewing it when it first aired. I get his point, though I'm not sure why they didn't take any story angles much closer to Greg Cox's work (without implying offensive ideas of how victims died). It drives me nuts to think that time supposedly bends well enough like a spring so that it makes no difference whether Khan is born in the 1950s or around 2010s... especially because the butterfly effects of such differing dates mean that incredibly different people would end up being Impregnated by Khan in different parts of history, such that would cause entirely different people to end up being fathered by Khan before he departs Earth for another planet. IMHO, it is far better to assume that something like Greg Cox's book happened and THEN the 20th-21st century Soong resurrected the Khan Project through the Noonian-Soong research institute; meaning that there were 2 Khans we didn't realise weren't 1 Khan due to the fragmentary nature of the post-WWIII documents of history. In other words, La'an Noonian-Singh could onky be a descendant of the first, TOS Khan, or the second, SNW Khan, but to mess with the timeline by making there be only one Khan who was born/created later would mean that whenever La'an returned to her future there'd be a different tineline result in which, at the very least, that Earth History would be different AND there wouldn't be a La'an Noonian-Singh.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

@Treklosopher Well, as a matter of fact, TOS at this point is just straight up no longer consistent with what's called the "prime timeline" Doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed for what it is, the iconic series that jumpstarted this franchise we all love. It's still "canon," but the later shows have altered background lore

@ellemueller

8 ай бұрын

​​@@OrangeRiverright. I fully believe that the reasons of Temporal disturbances buys them time to essentially reboot the franchise as a form of fun retreading of much of the previous ground being covered differently, similarly to the Abramsverse but by taking a subtler route.

When you ask did Star Trek exist in the Star Trek universe, it makes me wonder if other franchises existed. Did Star Wars exist in the Star Trek universe? Did they ever watch Return of the Jedi on movie night on the NX 01? Did Warhammer 40K exist in the Trek Universe? Did O'Brien and Bashir ever take a break from the Alamo and do an Skitari vs Alpha Legion battle?

@emsleywyatt3400

8 ай бұрын

No, none of those existed, but "Galaxy Quest" ran for seven seasons.

The 1930s sounds reasonable, as it's also when that spooky Time-Doughnut rigged a causal loop to force the birth of the Federation

Where it's gets weird is Carbon Creek. Watching I Love Lucy, the Godmother of Trek, and Tripp brings up the Twilight Zone in that episode, which means most of the primary actors of TOS are now cannon in Trek. Star Trek the tv show comes really close to being cannon within itself.

@jasonwick

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, they could have made Star Trek cannon and said “look at how accurately this piece of 20th century entertainment predicted the future!”

I always go back to comic books with its usually "elastic" timeline to account for it always being "now" despite all the history the audience is aware of in regards to these decades long franchises whose original conception in no way took into account that mass audiences would still want ever more from these entertainments. At some point Tony Stark as a character needs a frwsh coat of continuity paint because if you want him to be a hip tuned into modern culture, relatively youthful character then he can't have also had an origin tied to the American involvement in Vietnam. Same with Punisher. So that has been adjusted and frankly NOTHING has been lost. The characters are essentially the same. If Trek is to do more than just SURVIVE as a franchise, but actually thrive adjustments like what was seen in recent SNW episodes is probably what is needed.

The real divergence would have been the progenitors, billions of years ago, wouldn't it? Also you and Subraxas did a great job with this!

@shawn092182

8 ай бұрын

​@@subraxasWhat, they don't exist? I thought the US government have been secretly reverse engineering their ships for decades. 😆

Given that the very laws of physics differ, I'd say the divergence point was 0.000000000001 second after the big bang.

Gene Roddenberry's role in the Star Trek Universe would have been to create his magnum opus, _Andromeda Ascendant,_ which got cancelled after its first two seasons but restored for a third after a massive fan write-in campaign. Much of the show's appeal was the short-skirted uniform "Rommie" wore.

I like to think that our timeline diverged when the Soviet Union put the first man on the moon on June 26th 1969, as shown in For All Mankind.

@ellemueller

8 ай бұрын

That's not Star Trek!😂 Very amusing comment!!!

In my head-canon, the Star Trek universe had a highly popular sci-fi series that ran through the late 60s into the 70s/80s, that fill the role of Star Trek in our history. It was called "Galaxy Quest." :D

Imagine if Star Trek is still running in the 23rd and 24th Centuries. They'd definitely have to settle on it being alternate history by then.

The star trek novel Ishmeal by Barbara Hambly which takes place largely at the end of the 19th century is said by many to be the point of divergence. (Caused by spock accidentally time traveling) it's a great read. I liked the book a lot.

@georgedanielsummersell8464

7 ай бұрын

Star Trek meets Here Comes the Brides.

Trek was full of infinate universe timelines. I believe Trek is in it's own timeline, NOT ours. Close, but NOT ours.

OK I have two answers to this question. First of all, the Star Trek timeline is a fictional timeline and it should always be separate from our timeline. It was a mistake for Trek writers to move the Eugenics War out of the 1990s. That is when it happened in the Star Trek timeline. It needs to have remained that, and it doesn’t matter if that didn’t happen in our timeline because Star Trek as a fictional timeline. However, to answer your question. Within universe, I know exactly when the timeline changed. This, of course, assumes that the Star Trek timeline is our timeline. The only thing that could’ve happened that would have allowed for a deviation from our timeline from the Trek timeline is: During the episode “The City on the Edge of Forever” (in 1930) when that wino in the street disintegrated himself with McCoy’s phaser! That sent a ripple in time that allowed for the creation of Captain Proton and for the Amelia Earhart disappearance. There’s your answer! When I first watched that episode, when I was twelve, I remember at the end of the episode the Guardian of Forever explaining that: "All is as it was." but I then started screaming at the TV and saying, “but what about the guy who got disintegrated? How is that like it was????” Now I know. Now it all makes sense. That event...that sacrifice...actually led to the creation of the entire Star Trek universe. :)

As a kid I wanted to believe Star Trek was a "real" look at our future. I was bothered that the date of the Eugenics War was approaching but there was no mention of Kahn on the news. I liked the idea that it was a more clandestine activity related to all of the smaller conflicts going on. As an adult I can understand that Trek is a totally fictional world. If they say there was a Eugenics War in 1996, I can accept that as an in universe fact as much as I can that there was a Dominion war in the 2370s. On the other hand, I do appreciate that they are addressing all of the in-universe inconsistencies as being the result of time travel shenanigans.

This all reminds me that I want to see a series about when Data was removed from the Enterprise for 1 week to take part in several secret time travelling missions. He must go back to investigate potential time-line crimes on Earth but in every episode he would mostly end up fighting bikers then riding around on a motorcycle, wearing sunglasses and fighting more bikers. Just the opening scene of T2 but it lasts for 3, twelve episode seasons. It would be called "Dave's..." (I'm Dave) "Dave's Science Fiction Heaven" and I dont even want any money for the concept because I'm all about the art.

I am now and always have been a Star Trek fan. I’ve watched almost every show from every series and yet every time I watch one of your programs I am amazed at how much I didn’t know! Each one of your episodes is not only informative but extremely fun. Thank you for all you do and please keep up the great work.

Thinking Q dipping his fingers into Earth's primordial soup could've caused a butterfly effect.

In our universe, the creator of Buck Rogers was descended from someone abducted by the Skgarans. In the Trek timeline with him out of the picture someone independently comes up with the similar concept of Captain Proton. So whatever kept the Skgarans from abducting humans in our history (either not finding Earth or having no desire to enslave aliens) is the point of divergence.

The Captain Proton jetpack, helmet, and jacket mounted controller was originally used in the 1955 Commando Cody: Sky Marshal of the Universe serial.

Clearly.... if Orange River had begun making episodes much earlier in our history, we would now be on the Star Trek time line.

I have a theory that Vulcans visited Earth during the Anglo-Saxon. Period. Elves closely resemble Vulcans. They are also associated with magic and can disappear. Vulcans had this technology during human antiquity. This is of course, in the Star Trek universe.

Well, to me, there are by now dozens of different timelines. All changed and altered by different time-travelling events throughout different episodes. The timeline of TNG/DS8 and Voy is not the same as the timeline of TOS, the timelines of LD, Pic, SNW, Disco, etc are all separate and different as well. There are overlaps like characters and their names, events, etc, but they are not shared in detail. The Eugenics wars from TOS happened in the 90s and was a savage open conflict. The Eugenics of SNW happened later and were not so open. The Eugenics of DS9 and Voy were in the 90s but rather hidden. All are timelines that are distinct and separate, but closely related.

The humor in the start of this episode is perfect for me. Thank you.

Star Trek definitely has a messy history, especially given that it began with the proposition that it was "our" future. There weren't any major problems in the original series. The City on the Edge of Forever killed a fictional character whose survival would have inadvertently caused the Germans to win WW2 (a topic that comes up a shocking number of times in Star Trek. Guess it makes good drama.); the other two times the crew went back to the 1960s, the episodes were set in the future of the episode's air date. Of course, Spock mentioning that the Eugenics wars and Khan's rise to power happening in the 1990s meant that most people working on the show would remain alive when the arrow of time catches up to the fictional description of the events. More than that, Star Trek surviving beyond its original series with brand new productions (TNG, DS9, Voyager) in the 1990s meant the franchise itself had to outlive Spock's statement. TNG and DS9 has a few references that might retcon these events to take place in the 21st century instead, but hey, we're even approaching the then-future date that Sisko and Bashir went back to in Past Tense (September 2024). Each Star Trek series tries to be an allegory for our real world issues. Setting them entirely in the far future allows them to play around with these topics without introducing any possibility of being "wrong". Time travel has also been a popular sci-fi plot device for a lot longer than Star Trek's own existence. Once time-travel was introduced to Star Trek (in its first season, even), the easy route to take is to put the characters into the "present day" (or close to it) of the show's own production. It's easy for sets and costumes, and it just lets you drive that allegorical nail as far as it possibly can go; the subtlety of future and alien races is completely erased in these stories. Series such as DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise going back to their present days meant they have to enter a world where, simultaneously, the 1990s have come and gone, and Khan's rise to power happened. Maybe the augments never affected the United States, where they almost invariably travel to, but it's also extremely rare to see any sort of background details acknowledging that they are happening. For a show produced today, as of this video/comment, you can't go back to a war-torn dsytopian 2023, it doesn't jive with real events; the dramatic device of placing characters into our present day would no longer apply. Star Trek suffers in some ways from having lived so long. If it stayed in the 1960s, we might just joke about the 1990s reference. But there hasn't been a decade lacking Star Trek since it first aired, and it continues to use these plot devices because they are usually effective. We should probably either grant that Star Trek lives entirely in an alternative universe, a floating timeline, or accept that some hard reboots need to happen every so often. On the last point, there was strong continuity from TOS through Enterprise, but the Abrams films and Discovery offer convenient points to just consider the continuity rebooted, or at least part of alternative universes from the old continuities. At least we get to update set designs for the 23rd century without contradicting TOS; it wouldn't actually be the same continuity as TOS.

IMO, the point of divergence may be something not recorded or a set of many things that may only be partially documented. For example, the nuclear space platform launched by the USA in "Assignment Earth" would have required many years of development and funding before it would be ready for deployment. Add in possible similar devices from the Soviet Union and others, it gets murky. In the end, Star Trek is just a set of stories and doesn't really matter about "canon".

@xheralt

8 ай бұрын

Did Trek even mention Neil Armstrong? Robert A. Heinlein classified his alternate universes according to who the first man on the moon was. Assignment Earth was Apollo 6, Apollo 12 hasn't happened yet, it could be someone else who gets the honor. Possibly even our good Air Force captain, as USAF supplied many astronauts!

I remember The Lieutenant. Reruns aired late at night when I was a wee lad. I'd stay up late and watch TV during summers off from school. Gary Lockwood went on to star in 2001: A Space Odyssey.😂

The divergence between the two time lines has to be something that prevented WWIII in the 1990s. That is most likely to be the success of the Gary 7 mission. If the tv show would have been adopted, they could have shown how ww3 was prevented.

Without Amelia Earhart's crash, the Coconut Crab civilization that will eventually overthrow humanity would never have a chance to arise.

Who's to say that the mere fact that we have a show called Star Trek in our universe and they don't isn't what caused us to diverge?

George de _Mestral_ you say? As in mestral, the Vulcan who crash landed & stayed on earth after his colleagues were rescued!

The only real historic divergence I can extrapolate is with the parents of Khan. At some point during their life they started working on a project to create a super human, and gave birth to him. Since Khan was probably no more than 45-50 at the time of his leaving Earth, and that was in 1996, I believe, he must have been born between 1946, and 1951. In Star Trek: Into Darkness they say he was born in 1959, but this too was an alternate history, so I'm not going to use it. Given what was going on before 1946, I'd speculate that his parents were attached to the Nazis, probably scientists exploring super human eugenics projects, maybe they were studying in Germany, and work for them. They were probably of true Aryan descent, the peoples who originated in Iran and the northern India regions. Surviving the war, they perfected their theory, and gave birth to Khan. The work they did for Germany having aided their own ambitions. Hitler probably supported their work in order to use it to create perfect super human Aryans, but with the end of the war, and Germany losing, Khan's parents returned to their home in India, or where ever it is that Khan originated. The eugenics project of Khan's parents is the first truly di9vergent historic fact in the Star Trek Universe that makes a difference.

The episode "The 37's" also has Nogami as one of the abductees. He is an Imperial Japanese Soldiers standing there in full military reagalia without anyone even flinching. Especially not Paris, the 20th century buff. 1937 is also the year the Nanjing massacre took place. Was he complicit? Does nobody care? Imagine a nazi soldier standing there without anyone reacting. This episode is the best example of how Star Trek treats the Japanese way different than the Germans. Name me one German character on the level of Sulu or Keiko. I can name your 3 episodes of Aliens wearing nazi uniforms.

@Titamiva

8 ай бұрын

@@subraxas Possibly yes. But not cofirmed. There is a novel stating Detmer of DIS to be from Germany, but it is not canonical.

@Doug-lw5gf

8 ай бұрын

@@Titamiva Germans as "good" characters would not have worked for Gene Roddenberry; in 2020's that taboo would not apply.

Great job Subraxax 😎🖖🏻

In the Star Trek universe Gener Roddenberry created the much vaunted television series named Star Truck

It's important to distinguish between "events Star Trek inserts a fictional explanation for" and "events that definitely didn't happen in reality." I think if we discount closed time loops (Time's Arrow, Future's End e.g.) and the former cases (The 37s, Little Green Men e.g.) - some of which overlap - I think that the first definite event from Trek that definitely "steps on butterflies" that 100% didn't happen IRL is the Eugenics Wars. As much as I enjoyed Greg Cox's attempt to reconcile these events which allegedly happened during the 90s as being a shadow war in the excellent "Star Trek: The Eugenics Wars," the fact that they happened at all implies (a) advanced genetic manipulation going on ca 1970 at the latest in order for Khan to be an adult by 1990 and (b) that earth was readying interstellar sleeper-ships by ca 2000 in order for Botany Bay to happen. But then again, starting with Enterprise and continuing with Trek 2009, Discovery and SNW, the "established canon" is - and has been for some time - that Earth's history is pretty much a Wikipedia edit war. TOS occurred in an alternate timeline where we had warp drives and shields and transporters but computers, even 250 years from now, were still nothing more than IBM mainframes with voice interfaces. Maybe it's the original timeline where Henry Starling didn't introduce the first "isograted circuit" in 1967?

I figured that the Mirror Universe Trek was because Edith Kealer was saved.

@miguelvelez7221

8 ай бұрын

... ... ... My God... That's pretty good.

I think some of Benny Russell’s stories were adapted into Galaxy Quest episodes.

Every work of fiction set in the real world is inherently set in an alternate universe where the work of fiction never existed. So, 1966.

we need a temporal cold war show, star trek touched on several times that events have changed multiple times they're aware of in universe

The moment of divergence was the cancellation of TOS, which caused a space/time multi-universe split. Unfortunately for those of us in this timeline, we are living through the consequences of that error which was purposely created by time travelling Klingons and Romulans committing a hostile takeover of NBC stranding us in the dystopia we know as 2023. Now we clearly understand the wisdom and need for the Prime Directive.

I asked this question a couple years back in a popular r/daystrominstitute post, and there were some good answers. The velcro one was a common answer. But someone actually proposed Roddenberry's plane crash (specifically the third one he was in i believe, while deadheading/jumpseating). In the prime timeline Roddenberry dies and never presents his hopeful vision of the future. Humanity never aspires towards it and you get the darker earth history of the Prime timeline. Eugenics wars, WWIII, all that. Someone on a podcast with one of Roddenberry's.. kid? Grandkid? Forget exactly what the relation was- read him both my prompt and that answer. It was pretty touching.

Placing my bet on just pre-WW2, at least by September 1, 1939. Three technical divergences stand out in the Trekverse. 1. It has more advanced space flight capabilities than ours. (The DY-100 Botany Bay is launched in the mid 1990's. 2. More advanced cryo. (ST:TNG found a stray satellite with frozen people from the early 21st out yonder.) 3. More advanced genetics. Khan Noonian Singh would have to have been born in the 1950s to take over in the mid 1990's. Somehow, Edith Keeler's life and death did affect the timeline, by creating the Trekverse and perhaps the Terran Empire also. Or, the Temporal Cold War affected lots more than noted. Also IDIC may apply to timelines as well.

Great video. One important aspect left out when discussing Assignment Earth which was critical to the plot: we never had orbiting nuclear platforms in space!!!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video! The implication of me starting with "Assignment Earth" in the analysis, though, is that it does indeed depict space activities that we were not engaged in at the time.

I don't think I've ever thought about Roddenberry himself existing in the Star Trek universe lol. It's a fun idea to consider though. On another note, I don't mind that the timeline doesn't match up with reality myself. Thank you for this rather interesting exploration of the Trek timeline. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

I wouldn't necessarily count Captain Proton. Lost Media is a thing, especially in the era that serials were made. There are a lot of movies, serials, books, comics, etc. that are lost to time from this era. Some we know existed, some we have a hint may have existed, some at best are rumour, and some we have definitely lost without a hint. We could live in the timeline where someone working on Voyager heard someone who was a teen or child at the time talk about it, and little ramblings like that are all that exist. Not enough that anyone ever clued in to investigate. I mean...no this probably did not happen. Captain Proton is clearly royalty free Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers mashed together. You mention a difference being the existence of Star Trek in our universe (as a tv show.) This is an area I think about often; media that has had huge impacts on our culture, takes place in the future (compared to when it was created). How is the world difference in the Trek universe without the existence of Star Trek?

After thinking about it, i have to agree. Captain Proton is the real divergence point for Star Trek from us.

I woke up and saw I had this video paused. I guess even while asleep, i know to pause the orange river until i'm awake

Full points for your take on "sabotage." I literally LOLed

9:34 POWER UP! THE DEATH! RAY!!!!! Raise the lightning shield! Lol

Good video, the TOS timeline is not our timeline and its probably no the TNG timeline. The divergence may have occurred as a result of one of the two TOS visits to the past, or perhaps even the airing of the star trek series which means Gene may have been a time travellers who was trying to avoid a bad future.

Another thing: thete us no "neo-Trotskists" party on French politics. But in the Trekverse they were in power in France by 2024.

For the large part, I don't think it really matters. On the other hand, I happen to think the divergence would have to have started in the 1960's since the Eugenic Wars were fought in the 1990's which means that Khan Noonien Singh and his associates would've had to have been created at last three decades before. So I think the late 1960's is a good point for an initial divergence point.

2:40 congratulations on the raid sponsorship. It's official you're a youtuber now.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Hahaha thank you! It is a rite of passage for sure

@Doctoranthetardis

8 ай бұрын

​​@@OrangeRiveralso thank you for putting that Don Lemon bit in I had to Google it because I didn't believe it was real!!!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

LMAO

As said in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, “it’s only a model”

We must already passed the Point of Divergence, as there are no "Sanctuary Districts " in America's city centres yet, but in the trekverse they were already well established in 2024.

In "All Good Things" Q lists a date for the start of life that we now know to be inaccurate. So then. Anyhow, great video and thank you for talking about the ickiness of using recent tragedy for such a trivial purpose. Sci-fi can shed light and meaning onto real world tragedies, but just using it as a data point -- overwriting the deeply complex real world reasons why people die in these events -- seems to minimize the suffering. I can't imagine how I'd feel if a parent died in a terrorist attack and it was used this way.

Are There Any Other Supernatural Fans Who Also Love TOS? I Swear The Guy That Kirk,&,Spock Are Chasing Down in This Episode Looks so Much Like Mark Pellegrino,They’ve Gotta be Related Somehow,Right? Like Maybe He’s Mark’s Dad,or,Granddaddy,or,Maybe Mark Really is Luci,&,he Just Picked up Acting During His Immortality🤣 or,Maybe I’m Just Seeing Things,Who Knows What do You Guys Think?

The answer is in Robert A. Heinlein's "Number of the Beast".

I can accept the original timeline. But I do like First Contacts take on it. Since Enterprise carried on from it. So I understand why they push it forward for new shows. But for me First Contact is my headcanon for the start of Star Trek universe.

It would have to be about 3.7 billion years ago, when Q and Picard traveled to Earth's past moments before life began.

The removal of Gary Seven from ancient Earth.

I will always appreciate how the audio on your videos is louder and uses more Headroom than most every other KZreadr that I ever look at. Thank you for making your videos listen-to-abel

I really like your short analysis of the events of Assignment Earth.. it is very similar to my own little write up l did bout it on the Memory Alpha website yeah bout a dozen or so years ago. Yeah the original series almost hit the nail on the head with that one! The fact that the nukes being launched into orbit in the Trek version of history were something unknown to the general public seems to be confirmed not only by Kirk's comments at the end of the episode. But also by Gary Seven's statement to Roberta shortly after he meets her that the nuclear weapons being launched are "very secret devises vital to the security of this nation!"

I've always thought of Star Trek as the History of the Future, but it's a bit weird of people to try to fit WWIII into the 20th century. Thanks for a great video.

Thank you for not ignoring the fact that what is called the "ancient astronaut hypothesis" is pretty damn racist.

It diverged the exact split second Gene Roddenberry came up with a *SCIENCE FICTION* show.

Ireland unified in the early 2020's (probably helped by Brexit) One divergence that Star Trek mentions that may yet to occur.

Oh, hrm, about some of the timeline patches and real-world victims and perpetrators of conflicts and disasters. I hadn't considered that angle that way at all, partly cause my thought process was still treating it all as fiction, but just with ways to explain how the fictional timeline hasn't proved *vastly* different from the ongoing regular world. (Though I expect it'll be hard to explain away a nuclear war even like that if we get so lucky to not have one and still have more Star Trek, .... and we're far behind on where the space program and Moon stuff should be according to Trek. ) (Also somewhere Spock had a *near-miss* prediction about the Red Sox winning the World Series, but they choked. :) (Was it 1986?) ) Anyway, the way I see the history 'divergences' (apart from time-travel related) is cause even if it weren't a kinda messed-with by aliens and time warps timeline it's still fiction where present-day Earth is supposed to be *familiar.* )

Great analysis! One could also ask what in the Star Trek timeline is missing that is present in our timeline? To me the answer would be Social Media. Sure it wouldn't be the only thing diverting, but today Social Media is everywhere in our lives, but it is not even mentioned in Trek. Nor do we see something like a evolution of Social Media in the 23rd, or 24th century, at least as far as i can see. Maybe in the Star Trek Timeline it was never invented or right out considered as too dangerous. MAYBE (that's my totally personal headcanon) we can see hints of it, rather denial of it, in the resistance against the Borg (i could see MANY people nowadays willingly becoming Borg if the whole idea of being connected to a hive mind would be presented in a more positive light, which would totally happen if and company like Apple, Tesla for example Apple would invent it). We can also see hints of this denial in various speeches of original (Shatners) Kirk in TOS where he mentiones that living is striving and fighting and that humans are not "made" to sit around and have everything conveniently being served on a silver plate (See automation and internet connectivity of houses/cars and/or information being easily availlable via smartphone at the cost of fake news and mass manipulation and so on).

@davidnaas8366

8 ай бұрын

By the time of TNG, "television" is considered quaint and funny, perhaps the same fate awaited social media?

@nealsterling8151

8 ай бұрын

@@davidnaas8366 quite possible. But on the other hand what did take it's place? We saw in ENT or TOS nothing like Holodecks or similar media. Maybe people simply got tired of it. (which would be quite welcome imo)

@TheIrvy

8 ай бұрын

Social media is actually Control from Discovery, come back in time to make sure we never achieve the future we could have if people would just stop taking selfies and staring at their own navels all day ;)

@Doug-lw5gf

7 ай бұрын

There was a The Orville episode which showed a descended form of social media. But I consider The Orville to be Star Trek but not canon.

@TheIrvy

7 ай бұрын

@@Doug-lw5gf So you mean like Star Trek's version of Star Trek? That would kind of like the head canon many people enjoy that the Peter Cushing Doctor Who movies are in-universe, and the creation of the first companions after they left the Doctor.

Ripples spread out. In the City on the Edge of Forever a man picks up McCoy's phaser and accidently commits suicide. Perhaps this had no long-term effects, but perhaps it changed something so important that the future was totally different from what it would have been.

The answer is when humanity emerged. Star Trek's humans are clearly at least psychologically a different species from real world humans.

04:56 "Did Gene [Roddenberry] exist in the Star Trek Universe?' I'd say it depends upon the writers and how they would choose to shoe-horn them in. I'm writing a Gilligan's Island fan fiction. IN it, Ginger Grant has a REASON for travelling to Hawaii in the first place. She is going to screen test for a sit-com about a movie star stuck on an island with some other goofy people. She, for reasons [read the fic when I release it] loses out the role to another actress whom she only identifies as "Tina". The sit com happens AND after the castaways are rescued they become aware of it [background, NOT really integral to the story] SO, the "Gilligan's Island" TV show DOES exist within the universe of Gilligan's Island. It's just never named, only referred to and inferred, but NEVER detailed. MAYBE it's easier when writing comedy, BUT i see NO reason where Gene could not exist, NOR any reason why he could not be responsible for a ground breaking sci-fi TV series that MAY find some parallels within the "Reality" of the Star Trek Universe. You have to admit, THAT would make a h*ll of an episode.

I love it!! It aired first in my country, lol. Lots to go through here and consider.

Is Galaxy Quest consider Star Trek Canon?

@yeahsureimdownforthat1698

8 ай бұрын

Star Trek is actually considered Galaxy Quest canon.

@Doug-lw5gf

7 ай бұрын

It is Star Trek, but not canon.

congrats on the sponsor, live long and prosper!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

thank you!

There was some reason the first re-usable spaceship - the NASA Space Shuttle - was called Enterprise in the Star Trek timeline.

Many thanks for this insightful video! Appreciate your channel!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I wish they'd just stick with the original sequence of events. I think it would be fun if we got to see an alternate version of Earth after the 1960s. Apart from anything else, they currently have to ignore the way real life history has been influenced by Star Trek. I refer you to the elaborate theory as to how the hiring of Jeri Ryan for Voyager indirectly led to the Obama presidency.

How about the TNG episode Hotel Royale, where they found a book from the 20th century named Hotel Royale by Todd Matthews. The book does not exist in the real world.

Hey hey!! A Friday Star Trek video!

They diverged when ST first encountered faster than light travel.

And thanks for that postscript about history impacting real people.

I’m pretty sure we live in the Terran universe timeline.

To me even the fact that all aliens look like us makes Trek take place in alternative reality, as does the fact that it’s, well, fiction