Thank you for finally putting into words why I HATED season 7. There was the occasional decent joke but the addition of Kochanski just killed my enjoyment of the show. And yes, my whole family loves Rimmer. Most remembered line is still Rimmer “you’ve only got to LOOK at them! They’ve got less meat on them than a chicken McNugget!”

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

Classic moment!

Tikka to ride for me was very underrated and the last truly good episode

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

While it is flawed I do also enjoy it

Fun Fact: If you listen to the audio commentary throughout Craig Charles and Danny John Jules do very little to hide the fact they hated Series VII citing poor writing.

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

I'll have to check that out sometime

Good point about fact that JFK shouldn’t be able to kill himself. Hasn’t thought of that.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

It wouldn't bother me so much except that the episode makes quite a big deal out of how the cliffhanger is resolved

@CulturePhilter

2 жыл бұрын

@@MidnightChimey - yeah, i liked the resolution taken by itself but the fact that it contravenes something established earlier the same episode is… annoying

@myke1914

2 жыл бұрын

You do realise it’s not a coincidence that they are both in the same episode? You guys must really struggle with Douglas Adams’ work.

@CulturePhilter

2 жыл бұрын

@@myke1914 - I LOVE Adam’s work actually.

@myke1914

2 жыл бұрын

@@CulturePhilter then can’t you appreciate how self-depreciatingly Adams-like having the solution to the episode completely counter the “forget about it” series solution. It’s brilliant and only fans will have even noticed. I don’t think you give Doug Naylor the credit he deserves, this guy is an incredible writer and has been doing a high standard for longer than I’ve been alive. In comedy you have to write some misses to enable the hits to shine. Personally I feel like Grant removing himself from the equation enabled Red Dwarf to take on more Adams-like qualities, it almost lost the sit of sitcom at that point. Growing up 7 and 8 were my favourite series but I was 8 at the time. Now I find myself drawn to 10 11 12. They seem like they’re having more fun playing the characters from 7 onwards. You can see the enjoyment on their faces.

While I agree with the argument presented here, I still think the loss of Chris Barrie was the main factor behind series VII feeling so bad compared to the mid seasons. Without Rimmer, the gags just didn't land and became more and more cringe than funny. Kochanski in particular was more cringe than funny allot of the time. While season VIII was clearly past the shows prime, it was still way better than series VII and that was due to Chris Barrie being back. I have only watched a few episodes post season 8 and I don't see it returning to anywhere close to it's glory days. The show has suffered from that age old problem of flanderization. Rimmer, Lister and Cat have suffered from it to a huge degree and Kryten isn't the same Kryten. He acts/thinks/behaves more like a human now and so comes across more silly than funny. I'll stick with seasons 3,4,5 and 6

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

Chris Barrie's absence from most of series 7 is definitely very much felt. I do think series 10 is genuinely very good, but other than that it's been hit and miss since series 6

I totally get what you're saying, but ANYTHING Red Dwarf, I'll quite happily watch. There are good moments in ALL the episodes. I also quite liked series 10-13, and the Promised Land had me belly laughing all the way. I hope they NEVER stop making Red Dwarf!

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you still find a lot of enjoyment in it. For all the faults I still consider myself a fan and will definitely watch if and when we get more of it

I actually liked Tikka To Ride quite a bit, more for the story and ambition than the jokes. And I've been quite enjoying season 10 so far. I don't think the later seasons are a complete write-off, but there is no question in my mind that the glory years were definitely the first six seasons when Grant and Naylor were writing together and that their combined talent was greater than the sum of it's parts.

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

I also find I enjoy Tikka to Ride when I do go back and watch it, for all the flaws I pointed out. Series 10 is pretty good too, but yeah I still say those were the best years

Series 6 is my favourite. I enjoyed 7 but being filmed on location, and not in front of a studio audience, felt weird. Series 8 had that classic Red Dwarf feel being but I like to just watch 'the boys from the dwarf' on their own and didn't get into the repopulated Red Dwarf thing.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

It loses the claustrophobia of the earlier series and kind of doesn't really feel like the same show in series 8, though that's just the beginning of the issues with that series

@TroyConvers5000

3 ай бұрын

There were other eps filmed largely on location well before then, Backwards being one example. And I remember people bitching about S3 feeling so different to S1 & S2.

That was a really good summary of exactly how I felt the first time I started watching season 7. Never quite knew how to structurally put it into words so eloquently like you have. I'm confident that the weight was a bit too much to handle for Doug Naylor and it really shows even up to the most recent episode of 'The Promised Lands'. It just lacks that 'Red Dwarf' feel to it. I still love seeing them on screen again but there is a very notable change which originated from the very first ep in Season 7.

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, there have been good series after that, but it never felt quite the same

Kristine Kochanski is not a bad character per se. It's just they really had no idea what to do with her.

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

They sort of had an idea in series 7 but after that Doug Naylor just gave up and couldn't write a plot/joke involving her that wasn't "lol she's a woman who has periods and does womany things"

@SanFran51

Жыл бұрын

@@MidnightChimey Probably because Doug Naylor was too focused on getting to 52 episodes at the time because it means it would qualify for syndication in the USA. Also I do agree with you Series VIII was the worst,

@SanFran51

Жыл бұрын

@@MidnightChimey The fact that Doug Naylor refuses to bring her back is quite telling.

The ending of this episode was the first Red Dwarf that I ever watched. It was weird enough to catch my interest and find out what the show was all about.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

That's fair, for all its faults I enjoy this episode and if it got you interested in the series that's good

Great points, all! I forgot about the lack of studio audience as well... The story did have some ideas, even if the logic was flawed. For me, series 2-5 are the sweet spot for story quality. 3-5 for that additional polish. 6 felt like the initial downward but still almost top-tier... without Grant for balance, 7 was a weird take - right with overdone drama and fumbled badly, 8 is a rebound back to comedy but overdoes it in the process... 9 existed as a celebration, but was watched by so many that a full new series was commissioned. 10 is the best since 6. 11 is solid. 12 is hit or miss. Promised Land is surprisingly good... 11 and 12 had weird lighting and color timing, rendering it a step down (relatively unlit and bluish). It's really due to these actors and how they acted the material that made it work.

@ShamrockParticle

2 ай бұрын

But wasn't continuity in Doctor Who always fast and loose?

@MidnightChimey

2 ай бұрын

@@ShamrockParticle Well Doctor is at least (mostly) consistent within individual series and stories continuity wise. But yeah series 3-5 is probably the sweet spot. I'd include series 6 but it is admittedly more formulaic with a greater reliance on recurring gags etc., reminds me a bit of Blackadder series 4 in that respect.

I'm going to be honest here, I used to watch Season 7 back in 2006 when I recorded the series on KTEH channel 54 cable 10 after recording the last 3 episodes of Season 6. I used to like it because it's Red Dwarf, but after watching clips of the earlier seasons on KZread (back when KZread was relatively new) and I started watching the series again in 2009 on KRCB channel 22, I started to dislike Season 7 more. Compared to the first 6 seasons (which I love the most), Season 7 does not hold up very well. Tikka to Ride and Stoke Me a Clipper were the only good episodes of Season 7.

@MidnightChimey

2 ай бұрын

There is some good stuff there, but it doesn't hold up to the earlier series

Mmmm.. I like all of the series' to be honest. Series 7 no less than the rest. Though I do actually have a favourite series. Which as it happens is series 8. Regarding Kryten's 'picking on the chickens' line. I also found that line to be cumbersome in it's wording. The concept of what he was getting at, less so. The point he's making I like to think, is that as humans we actually kill chickens to eat them. However stupid they may be. (and as a family we kept rescue battery chickens as pets for a few years. And trust me, they ARE phenomenally stupid.) BUT Kryten didn't have to kill the man to enable the crew to eat him. He was already dead. Kryten was simply repurposing dead meat.

@MidnightChimey

7 ай бұрын

Well the way that was worded it came off much more as just "if you eat other animals than logically you must be cannibals..."

Honestly Series X is the point where it felt like Red Dwarf again. Because they went back to basics and ended the obsessions of constantly revamping the show.

I personally enjoyed tikka to ride. Epideme was pretty good too. Rest was poor, as was Kochanski

@MidnightChimey

2 ай бұрын

That's fair, I do find Tikka to Ride quite watchable, for it's faults

There are episodes in series 2 - 4 I can quote over 50% of, but from series 7 onwards I just... can't remember very much. There are some great individual episodes but the whole just doesn't flow. Nice video - hope for more

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

There are some great episodes in the post series 7 era but it never quite clicks in the same way as the early series. That said series 10 has some pretty memorable moments for me

Series 7 is probably the most well rounded RD series of them all; it has comedy, pathos, tragedy and digs deep into it's own lore with satisfying results. Most people that don't like it are pissed that it's not the sitcom in space that they knew, but let's be honest, that would never have lasted anywhere near as long had it stuck to that format. That, and the sight of a woman in RD just brings out the troglodyte in them.

@MidnightChimey

3 ай бұрын

You might have a point about Kochanski, though I do think fans would have swallowed it better if she wasn't replacing probably the best character in the show

@TroyConvers5000

3 ай бұрын

@@MidnightChimey that's the fans own fault for not being able to seperate the two actions. SOMEONE had to fill a fourth spot, and Claire Grogan had none of the variety or depth of Annett.

@TroyConvers5000

3 ай бұрын

@@MidnightChimey add to that, it's a slight on the other three if people are just tuning in for 'The Rimmer Show'. The others had really filled their roles out well since their respective introductions.

@MidnightChimey

3 ай бұрын

@@TroyConvers5000 It's not that any of the others are bad it's just that Chris Barrie is really the one carrying the show a lot of the time. As I said though, the problems of series 7 do go deeper than just the absence of Rimmer

Something else that started in series 7 was the pandering to a US audience. I'm pleased when Britcoms do well in the States, and I love that RD has a good audience over there, but that doesn't mean you have to suck up to them like they did in Tikka to Ride. Having anti establishment anti authority Lister calling JFK 'sir' in such an obsequious way was bad enough, but Rimmer calling him 'a fine man'. Rimmer! This is the guy who referred to Jesus as a hippy. The only people Rimmer ever admired were war-mongers. In earlier series Rob and Doug would have revelled in having Rimmer say something totally tasteless and inappropriate about such a well-respected figure. The suckholing was just nauseating.

@MidnightChimey

9 ай бұрын

i hadn't really thought about it before, but yeah, unusual to hear Lister call anyone "sir" and it not be in a sarcastic tone

When and why do you think the decline of Red Dwarf started, if indeed you think there is a decline?

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

@Zarius Series 10 is my favourite of the post series 7 era too. Series 8 is a weird beast with all of the toilet humour and some "jokes" that are downright gross and offensive. I may cover that one at a later date actually

@davel9514

2 жыл бұрын

@@MidnightChimey I don't think there has been a decline - it has changed, and we haven't. The show has been going for almost 30 years, and we've gotten 30 years older - can't expect the same old material to continue being funny. I really enjoyed series 10 - 13, particularly The Promised Land which made me belly-laugh throughout. I'm more than thankful I still get to see more Red Dwarf, rather than dwell on what it once was (honestly, I think a lot of this is more about nostalgia, than it is not "being funny") Let me give you an example: I first started watching Red Dwarf from series 3, and it took ME a long time before watching the first 2 series because THEY weren't the same without Kryten. Do you see what I'm getting at?

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

There is probably a lot of nostalgia in it for sure and even the "golden era" episodes had their flaws, no series is perfect, though I do see that as the best period of Red Dwarf nonetheless. That being said, series 10 was probably just as good, I really enjoyed that series

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

@Stefano Pavone I feel like series 8 especially only really appeals to a more juvenile sensibility

@TroyConvers5000

3 ай бұрын

@@MidnightChimey can we all agree that 'series IX' is a monstrosity and should be nuked from orbit?

Typically whenever writers try and switch the genre of a show or franchise it seems to work out poorly. Seems like either too much or not enough effort is put into the scripts.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

And in this case it was probably the wrong time to be switching things up

Series 1-6 were brilliant, Series 7 without Chris Barrie ,the episodes with Kochanski was unfunny. It was great that Barrie came back for Series 8. Have not seen Series 9 to Promised Land but I will watch it. However Chris Barrie's absence definitely affected Series 7 and Kochanski near killed the franchise. There I said it.

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

It was never quite the same after series 6

For me, Tikka to Ride ruined Red Dwarf. The 'moving the goalposts' issue is huge in my opinion. The whole premise of Red Dwarf is that they are stuck in space trying to get back to earth. Lister wants his farm on Fiji and all of that. But now suddenly they can go to earth instantly and they just want to bring curry back? Why the hell do they go back to Starbug when they can just teleport straight to Earth? Red Dwarf isn't just jokes - there is a plot and drama to it as well as humour - that's why we love it! Other issues (loss of Rimmer, non-Scottish Kachanski, etc) are irritating but the 'stranded in space' issue is absolutely fundamental and that is why Tikka to Ride ruined Red Dwarf.

@MidnightChimey

2 ай бұрын

To be fair I feel like the initial objective of the getting to earth and having the farm on Fiji etc. had kind of been forgotten by this stage anyway, and the premise was more just guys trapped together on a spaceship. I don't know if Tikka to Ride can be entirely blamed for that. It does seem jarring that Lister wouldn't want to just stay on earth though

@LittleMAC78

Ай бұрын

​@@MidnightChimey my wife and I are in the middle of rewatching the entire series and just started S3 last night. In "Backwards" it is explained that the universe had expanded to its limit and was now contracting which is why everything was backwards on this planet. They actually DID get back to their Earth in this episode, just 3million years in the future where time was now running backwards. Thankski verski muchski budski!

@MidnightChimey

Ай бұрын

@@LittleMAC78 That's true, although it makes more sense that Lister would not want to stay on that occasion as it is not exactly OUR earth.

Series 7 was bad & 8 was atrocious. It felt like Rob Grant was not there to keep a tight leash on Naylor & his obvious love of slapstick. I enjoyed Tikka & Cassandra from 7 & 8 but that's hard to commit too as they were still really cringe inducing at times.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like especially during series 8 there were times when Naylor could have benefitted from a "leash" on him as you say

@slaxxxer

2 жыл бұрын

@@MidnightChimey Agreed. It was six series worth of playing it very straight & then it was suddenly slapstick. "Hand pick up the ball", "you're lying" & Rimmers absurd salute. It really did lose its way and has never fully recovered.

I used to love Red Dwarf but when I watched the first episode of series 7 it put me off Red Dwarf for life. It was so bad that I just didn't feel the same about the series anymore. It was so badly written and unfunny, and the movie format completely sucked the essence out of the show. I haven't watched an episode since.

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

That says a lot of about how bad you found it if you didn't want to watch it at all any more. I do find some of the later episodes are an improvement honestly, particularly in series 10

Each to there own

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

Don't agree?

Downfall what are you talking about, all series have there best series and the longer they go, sometimes they are not as funny however you judge it too harsh.!!!

@MidnightChimey

2 жыл бұрын

The title was deliberately somewhat melodramatic. I do still enjoy series 7, but that said, it is one of the weakest series

first 5. 6 seasons are superb then the woman joined them and it lost all its superbness... you may think its the writing but its mostly the fact that its npo longer boys lost in space, now its boyys and one girl lost in space... and she is never ever funny and ruins every scene she is in....

@MidnightChimey

11 ай бұрын

There was potential to create an amusing dynamic with Kochanski as a disruptive influence in series 7 but after that Doug Naylor just dumbed her down and made every joke into "lol she has boobs" which was not particularly funny or interesting

@TroyConvers5000

3 ай бұрын

'then the woman joined' YIKES. 😂