As someone who worked at a university for over 13 years. I’ve never heard of a professor even caring if you take notes. This is insane

@MontrellTellaTruth

Жыл бұрын

Teachers do that In high school I make good grades but don’t do many if any notes so it’s a little annoying

@jonnyunited

Жыл бұрын

I also never heard of this and I've been through too much school, finishing up my doctorate now and think the idea of grading notes is insane

@marioluigijam3612

Жыл бұрын

@@MontrellTellaTruthAt least for HS it makes some sense since alot of the HS teacher’s job is making sure the students learn since their is often alot of resistance (especially in on level classes). In college thats dumb.

@MeChan25

Жыл бұрын

it used to just be a highschool/middle school thing to teach kids habbits, but like a year or two after i started college it started to be a thing in the local college too. even in high school I have literally failed multiple classes because even though I tested well and my class participation proved i knew what was being talked about, I failed classes because I either didn't turn notes in (cuz i didn't need them if i knew the material), OR my notes were not in the style asked for/couldn't be read. (i have bad handwriting, and the format teachers want just confuses me). it was to the point that I would take my personal notes in class, and then have my homework be me writing out the "official notes" those teachers were requesting.

@rationalbushcraft

8 ай бұрын

What I see as the problem here is that they weren't told they would be turned in and graded. Maybe I have photographic memory and don't need to take notes. I get an F even if I learned the material without notes?

My thoughts, as a retired math professor, is that her syllabus should explicitly state how the notes are graded and what % of your course grade they comprise. Additionally, congratulations on finding a trig teacher who makes sense!

@TheKrispyfort

Жыл бұрын

How can trig NOT make sense?

@lefend

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheKrispyfort Not everyone thinks with the same patterns. Math is primarily taught by people with a strong mathematics background and people who major in math tend to think similarly. You just have to find someone who can explain it in a way where you can learn it easier.

@KCCAT5

Жыл бұрын

I couldn't even find an algebra teacher that made sense nevermind trig

@builtontherockhomestead9390

Жыл бұрын

Try taking high school algebra without a textbook. We kept being promised it was at the printers and we would have a copy soon. Never saw a book. Then moved and had geometry with a psychopath or at least he had some kind of personality disorder and insisted I do algebra in a way I never was taught. Dropped the class cause I was failing and started having severe anxiety in his class. Even my mom was terrified of this man after 1 meeting. Yup, that was the end of my high school math education.

@JohnSmith-ki2eq

Жыл бұрын

@@TheKrispyfort I have dyscalculia (dyslexia of numbers), you'd be amazed at how hard it is to do math while the numbers run around the page and won't stay still in your mind either. every other subject I was doing well at, but math kicked my ass daily.

When I was in the navy I was in school for a year and a half and I was a person that if I write it down I would remember it. After I completed the course the instructors took all of my notes, I had a folder of each section individually, and from what I discovered later was that they had taken the notebooks and redone the entire course using them as a reference guide for the class. The only reason I found out was because a cousin who went through years later saw my name in the credits of the class and thought it was his grandfather who I was named after.

@Nogitsune117

11 ай бұрын

MM? EM?

@Rmc263

8 ай бұрын

Nuke?

@reedburch3680

Ай бұрын

When I was in college I found as I was writing notes I was missing out on what the prof said while I was writing. So my notes were always half complete. Quit taking notes.

I've turned up in classes with a pocket Dictaphone before now. A tutor once noticed, and asked why I had it on my desk. I told her that I was using it so I could write up my notes later. I wanted to spend my time in class listening to her, and learning what she was teaching. I have never been graded on my notes, and this is the first time I have ever heard of that happening. I agree with you that the notes I make would be personal to me. I genuinely do not understand how someone else would grade those notes.

@luvfunstuff2

Жыл бұрын

I did the same thing in Accelerated Anatomy & Physiology. It was really helpful to sit down and re-listen to the lecture since it was really fast paced. The class was offered in half the time as a normal semester. I was the only one who did this But I was 30 years older than these kids and would've never passed with an A without it. I took notes too and filled them in during the played back recording.

@luvfunstuff2

Жыл бұрын

@Mr. Richard C. wow! I do not understand why you can't record a lecture if you are paying for the lecture 🤦‍♀️

@luvfunstuff2

Жыл бұрын

@Mr. Richard C. as long as the student only used the copyright material for its intended purpose, for the student to learn, and they weren't sharing or selling the material, what difference does it make? 🤷‍♀️

@luvfunstuff2

Жыл бұрын

@Mr. Richard C. that is so sad!

Twenty years ago or so in my first college class the instructor asked me why I wasn't taking notes. I replied simply "Do you want me to take notes or listen and learn?" Got an A in that class

@goosenotmaverick1156

Жыл бұрын

Been there, I got called out more than once for not looking like I was paying attention. Typical "so, what was I talking about" it really pisses them off when you can prove you were listening and it makes them look bad a little 😂

@nes999

Жыл бұрын

I was similar in college. I could either focus on the professor/lesson and learn it or I was able to focus on notes. Classes where I took notes often felt like I never showed up.

@JPOC226

Жыл бұрын

Exactly my thoughts

@frotoe9289

Жыл бұрын

In a class in the early 80's, the 67yo prof just stopped talking once and stared at us. Then he launched into a tirade. "PEOPLE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? You all just sit there with bored looks on your faces and don't even take notes. Back in my day, we all took copious notes. Every word the professor said was put on paper. And you kids seem to think you're overworked and saddled with too much homework. Who ever told you that getting an engineering degree is a full time job? It's not. You should be putting in 60 hours a week or more. You should be studying for at least 3 hours outside of class for every hour you are in class--so if you're taking 17 hours, that means AT LEAST 17*4 = 68 hours a week!" Nobody reacted. Just kept sitting with our dumb, bored looks. It was not my favorite class. Dude had a solid "my way or it's wrong" attitude.

@LifesLaboratory

Жыл бұрын

When I was a university student in the 90s it was a struggle to take everything down. There were no PowerPoints and no online resources... heck, there was no "online". If you didn't take notes, you had nothing to study from. I'm a biology prof now and I approach things quite differently. My PowerPoints and additional study guides are available online prior to class. Recorded lectures are also available ahead of time. I want to take the pressure off students so that they can pay attention in class, but I do find that taking some notes and modifying my materials helps. I give students digital files so that they can add to them, modify them, and use them to make flash cards, flow charts, etc. Information is readily available, but student learning comes from the work they put in. I am a coach and a guide. I have no interest in seeing your notes, unless you want to double check them, go over difficulties, or ask for advice on learning strategies. My one big pet peeve though... have enough respect to stay off your phone in class!

I’m with you, I’m a grown woman who would not care for her policy

@darlenefraser3022

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. This is insanity. You pass or you fail in whatever method is best for your own memory. This should be results based.

@TheRegisteredNerd

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I have my bachelor of science in nursing and I've seen some weird shit in school, but that is a ridiculous requirement. I feel like the one time it should make a difference is if a person is not doing well in class and has not been taking notes. Or they're doing a lot better than they should for the amount of notes highlighted or annotated

I compared notes often to a friend beside me in class when we studied for tests and we took notes completely different. Things I already knew were often left out and new info was wrote down and sometimes my notes had doodles that explained something in a simple way that struck me as funny that day. There were a lot of things in my notes that she considered insignificant and hers were the same. If we were graded on them we would never have passed but honestly if the teacher was going to grade you on your note taking she should have disclosed this in the beginning or at least on the syllabus.

@lunatik9696

6 ай бұрын

Having a study buddy made ALL the difference when I went back to college to get my 1st BS in Math at 49 yrs old. My study partner took better notes than I. But I had an intrinsic understanding of the material. We were a good team. Occasionally, as I followed along and copied formulae from the board, I corrected the instructor and he appreciated it. It is more challenging than most know to recite and write at the same time.

When I was in 8th grade (2006) my Japanese language teacher graded our notes. But it was closer to what you said you initially envisioned -- she was mostly just checking to make sure we did it. As long as we copied down all the key parts she told us to copy down, we got full points. And we also got extra credit for color coding them, for some reason. XD I really loved that class and that teacher. It inspired a love for Japanese language and culture that led to me moving to Japan and working there for a few years after college. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to grade notes, but I agree with you that it's wrong to grade the exact style of notes. She doesn't know your shorthand or how your brain works. Different people need different things.

@christopherwise7067

Жыл бұрын

my spanish teacher, in highschool, gave extra credit for making fucking flash cards...

As a former English instructor (ESL) at a local college, I went round and round with my colleagues on this one. I never checked notes, but they often did and pulled the grades from where the sun doesn't shine and did it without any consistency. If the teacher wants notes, they need to provide a specific metric for what they are looking for and what percentage of the grade it composes--otherwise it's only an exercise in conformity to an unknown standard.

@darlenefraser3022

Жыл бұрын

Bang on!

@MonkeyJedi99

Жыл бұрын

I had a college professor who not only demanded we take notes, but dictated what KIND of notebook we could take those notes in. It had to be a wire bound notebook, of at least 60 pages, could not have the pages perforated for clean tearing out, and could not function in a way that allowed pages to be added. And he said failure to comply would result in a failure of the whole class. After trying to get him to bend on the requirements, I read his specs VERY carefully, and complied... with a 3" x 5" wire bound notebook. He nearly lost his [redacted], but the department head sided with me, and that professor was not invited back the next semester.

@johncochran8497

Жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyJedi99 Sounds like he was requiring a pseudo "lab journal" or "inventor notebook". But, of course, didn't specify such exactly.

@evasokolek4616

Ай бұрын

I had an English prof who demanded a certain notebook and style of note-taking, but I don't recall that she graded our notes. I didn't like her required format but I wanted an A so I complied. I do not think notes should be graded; what works for you may not work for me. If I am doing well in class that should be enough of an indicator that my note taking style is fine.

If my teachers had required me to submit my notes, several of them would have been greatly confused. While I was in college, I was a social and emotional car wreck. I would frequently use the edges of my notebooks to write out my thoughts and frustrations because I had no one to share them with. That was very personal, and I would not have shared that with anyone so I would have failed every one of those assignments. As a mature adult now, I think it would be insanely stupid for a teacher to think that everyone will do their notes in the same way, and I agree with you 100%.😊

@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist

Жыл бұрын

Maybe would have gotten a separate notebook, like one for personal thoughts, and one for your classes.

@jed-henrywitkowski6470

Жыл бұрын

I've always had trouble paying atention in school, from kindergarten to college, and this was even with classes that I am intrested in. With that said, I think students should have the option to to submit notes to be graded and returned.

@andrewvaladez1929

Жыл бұрын

Came to the comments to type this exact thing thank you

@xxfeverdreamxx7198

Жыл бұрын

Ditto, the amount of times I would be in uni and just start doodling would probably have raised an eyebrow... that and the amount of random song lyrics in the top right corner...

@Thalanox

Жыл бұрын

That's not the format of the notes. Think of a book that has certain sections of a diagram or paragraph blanked out that you're supposed to fill in, like some of those pages in quiz books you might have had as a kid. This was a written assignment for class participation that was given another purpose as clear study notes that the student body could benefit from. Due to this secondary purpose, and it effectively taking the place of the students' normal notes, people just think of it as "notes". End of the day: I think he just didn't hear or remember the introduction to the course or read through all the nitpicky, hard to find fine print of the course intro page that no-one really reads to find the details of that. I think the professor was trying to get fancy, and come up with an interesting place to draw marks from to direct students' attention, help them out by making sure that all of them were trying to keep thorough notes (regardless of questioning whether this was an appropriate learning style for them), and scare/teach the others to always read out everything in detail that could possibly be related to a contract, before they screw something important up in the real world that would mess their life up. If it really bothered me, I'd see if I could swap professors if it was early enough in the semester to do so, but I think I'd do my best to suck it up. Personally, I might actually like having x% of my mark being more or less guaranteed, depending on how the note-taking is. It might really, really suck to constantly feel the pressure to get everything down. Grading notes is very much not my personal preference, but if it was done 'right' (I don't know what it would look like, as I hate every implementation I can imagine, but I don't feel any innate hostility to the concept of getting credit for what I want to be doing anyway), I could be convinced to take a course with it and be fine with it.

You nail it. I did a degree in engineering and my notes were radically different than most people's. The notes are for me, not anybody else. And I prefer very terse notes; they were for my learning and study purposes and they were primarily useful as a test study reminder, the basic list of topic we covered. One friend took 0 notes. We both had >3.5 GPA's. Other people took copious notes and would fill four pages in one 50 minute lecture vs my 3 lines. It was sometimes pretty funny when a friend would ask if he could have a copy of my notes because he missed class. I'd show him 3 lines for that lecture and he'd look at the rest of the page above and give me one of those looks and often "you haven't even filled ONE PAGE and we're 10 lectures in to the class!" Sorry, dude. I see homework similarly. It's for me. Homework shouldn't be graded in college. If I can learn without doing, hurray for me. And even attendance. For some classes, participation is actually pretty important and requiring attendance there is not off-putting to me; you can't take a speech class without actually speechifying, and I get that one needs an audience to get the feel so making students sit through others' speeches is acceptable. But for many other subjects where it's just a professor walking in from the back doors, filling a blackboard for 50 minutes, and walking back out, there's no participation necessary (or even allowed, really). I once showed up for a Statics class and the grad student instructor spent 10 minutes literally goose stepping in front of the class wearing military camo, going back and forth barking commands. "You WILL show up before the bell or you WILL NOT be allowed in to class. You WILL do all the homework. You WILL turn it in at the beginning of class every day. Anything turned in 5 minutes late will not be graded. You WILL use engineering ruled paper. You WILL put your name on every page at the top left. You WILL put the course title and section at the top in the middle on every page. You WILL put the assignment number adjacent to that. You WILL number each and every page as '1/4', '2/4', '3/4', '4/4' in the top right corner. Any homework turned in which does strictly adhere to this will be ungraded in its entirety. You WILL use a straight edge to draw each and every straight line, including division signs, You WILL use a compass or template to draw every circle, square, or triangle. ..." I didn't attend a second class, just went and told my advisor "nope". Took it a semester later from a good ol boy graduate of The University of Texas and he was beyond laid back about everything--I found myself actually kinda enjoying his classes. A friend took a calc class from a professor who actually took points off homework for spelling errors. SPELLING in a math class. J F C

@glendamaikell4224

Жыл бұрын

Your description of your Statistics class brought back not so fond memories of my Business Statistics class in college. Very regimented with zero space for explanations and/or variations.

@lunatik9696

6 ай бұрын

I always demanded homework and tests in a specific format similar to your description. I learned how to do that in engineering school and wanted to impress the value of neatness and clarity. A piece of paper with just an answer on it was worthless to me and the student. And if they tested me, they learned very soon, I didn't play about it. Homework is to gain experience doing the types of problems one may see on a test. If someone didn't need to do homework/ assignments, suck it up as I did, it should be easy.

@scurvofpcp

10 күн бұрын

@@glendamaikell4224 I've found that the more regimented and strict an instructor is the more shallow their understanding of the subject is. Half the point of teaching a subject is to have your students push you to fully understand it from as many angles as possible.

I’ve of a mixed thought here. First, I agree that everyone takes their own notes for themselves. But after some thoughts. I keep coming back to a couple of things. 1. Transparency. It is important that anything graded be shared with the class at the beginning so that everyone is aware, how it impacts their grade. It shouldn’t be surprising that you be asked to turn in your notes and that they are going to be graded. 2. Her learning philosophy. If she believes it is important that notes be a specific way and this is why she wants them done a specific way. She needs to teach this so the class understands the reason why she grades them, and how she likes them to be. I consider this similar to at your business how you want pictures done before, during and after a job. It’s your business and you want it done that way. Anyone who works for you will do it that way, but you are also teaching anyone who works for you a valuable lesson on “why” that is helpful in your business. Honestly, I would “professionally” give this feedback to the professor after the class is over so that she knows for the future.

@lasharael

11 ай бұрын

A significant difference here is that when he wants something done a certain way as an employer, he's doing so as an employer. As a student, he's working for his own understanding and edification. He is not the instructor's employee. What both you and the instructor here are describing are also not a student's class notes, they are an entirely separate assignment that apparently has its own testing sheet the instructor put together. The instructor implying (or believing) otherwise doesn't just demonstrate a lack of transparency--it's downright misleading. So if I were taking this class, I would need to take my class notes and also do this assignment as an additional piece of coursework.

@jeanjaz

9 ай бұрын

It still shouldn't have been a surprise. The instructor should have gone over what was expected, as far as the note-taking is concerned for sure since it was so different, but also for every other way to earn or lose points in her class.

As an auditory learner who misses critical information when trying to take notes, I totally agree with you. I HAVE to watch and listen to you, if I'm focused on notes, then I'm not focused on you. Also notes are personal as you said. If you need everything, then write everything. If you need bullet points to stimulate memory, then that's what you do.

@goosenotmaverick1156

Жыл бұрын

Right? If I'm taking notes, that's all I'm doing, transferring audio to a physical media. My brain does the ole copy paste and nothing is retained for me that way. It makes it harder to learn, in fact. Teachers were not understanding of it in the least.

@compactc9

Жыл бұрын

Graded notes were one of the most obnoxious parts of my high school experience.

@JeremyMacDonald1973

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely - Something I learned in my first year of Uni... I was a keener and I spent the first half of the Year scribbling away and being really unhappy with my marks... then I stopped taking notes except for one or two (like teachers office hours etc. or something I wanted to look up before the next class). My marks skyrocketed. I never take notes - From then on I never took notes but focused intently on the professor.

@jenniferd264

Жыл бұрын

Me too! If my head is down and I’m doodling you know, like circles, trees etc IM PAYING ATTENTION BIG TIME! It’s how I learn, it’s always how I’ve learned best! More and more and more I lose respect for all teachers

If I turned my notes in, I would get kicked out. “My notes are for me, it’s what I need to learn” Very well put. I feel like she is micromanaging and controlling how you think in her class. Maybe not on an evil planned out level, maybe she is just wired that way. But it makes class much more difficult when there’s no good reason for it.

College prof here--I teach writing courses. I'm also a specialist in learning theory. When I do notetaking assignments, it's always pass/fail and it's material for a conversation with the student. It helps me understand the students' learning styles and approaches, what kinds of prior knowledge they bring, how their brains process and connect material, and what kinds of things they pick up from the class. It shows me as much about their strategies as about my teaching. For example, one year I did a note review and found out way too many students were zeroing in on whether I liked a work or not. This was because I was routinely opening every introduction to a book with whether I thought it was a good read or not, more as a conversation tactic than a teaching one. After these meetings, I told the class as a whole that while this was fun trivia, it was not pertinent to the content of the course--they did not need to care about which works I liked and which I didn't. One student audibly laughed and said, "good, I didn't want to write about a book you didn't like and get failed!" All this is to say: some students do need a nudge to learn how to take notes. A lot need more than a nudge. We shouldn't be grading on our narrow view of what counts as notes, but rather trying to help students understand their minds and how to best support their learning. This requires us to learn about them. Grades don't really have a place in that conversation beyond saying they did or did not participate.

@Panda-iz3rn

Жыл бұрын

To this day i dont know how to take notes, untill 10th grade i never needed to and i was never taught how

@Kurgosh1

Жыл бұрын

Also a prof. I don't demand my students take notes or share them, but my takeaway is that if it's a graded assignment that should be clear in the syllabus or course description. If it's not then you should discuss that with your instructor. Most of us try to be reasonable people and if something is unclear or confusing we need to know that so we can communicate more clearly in the future and avoid any problems.

@jackson01357

9 ай бұрын

No. No. For me, notes are purely for me to keep my attention and focus in class. I have pretty colourful ADHD/Autism. My notes sometimes don't even make sense to me when I glance at them later on. This is assuming I didn't lose the paper or file in the mean time. If I had to have my notes graded, I would undoubtedly fail every class I ever took because most of the time I was struggling so much just to "tune in" to the lecture that I couldn't even hold my pen, because the texture was so loud - much less use it to take vital notes. The notes the professor wanted, at that. I can't even understand sarcasm a good portion of the time. How could I figure out what she wanted me to write for my notes?

@jackson01357

9 ай бұрын

By the way I meant to put this just under the video but forgot to click away after reading your comment. So the "no"s are intended to answer his first two questions!

@theegodkingmammz1595

9 ай бұрын

I can tell you’re a writing professor by your grammar and writing structure 😂😂

I remember failing “notebook” quizzes routinely in high school but kicking the shit out of real quizzes,tests, exams and practical exercises. Rubbed me the wrong way too because only real results matter.

@thegardenofeatin5965

8 ай бұрын

My high school physics and chemistry teachers both took me aside and told me that based on my performance on homework assignments that I was going to fail the class. I made a 96 on the physics final and a 94 on the chem final. Grade me when I'm finished learning.

I stayed back my freshman year twice due to my school not understanding I learn differently. My Science teacher would force Cornell notes the way he wanted them. Was a good portion of your grade. The notes singlehandedly made me fail that class. I ended up switching schools and the new one was alot more understanding. By the time my original class became seniors, I had already caught back up and I graduated with my original class year. It really helps having support that understands not everyone learns the same.

@ilovemybuddythunder

Жыл бұрын

I'm a slow learner, I had to drop out of school cause the town I live in has one school and they don't care I was in these special classes that taught nothing it was the same thing year after year and not only that it was embarrassing, I'd get made fun of and the school was ran by assholes. One of the "teachers" told me I'd probably do better getting my GED. Even she knew what a crock it was for someone who can learn albeit at their own pace to be stuck in classes for people who can't learn at all.

@WhiteoutMonster

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you can be somebody without "fitting in" with the herd. This is the same ideology behind "freedom of speech, as long as I agree with it" type stuff

As a teacher in the German equivalent of Highschool I have to agree with you. Everybody learns differently and takes notes in their individual style. The outline is a great idea but it does not make much sense to grade an individuals notes. Having you hand in a copy of your notes without grading them will provide her with a level of feedback and you can use it to be aware of students that have a hard time participating. That would be the approach I would recommend.

As a former college instructor, I can kinda see the benefit of having students show they are taking notes. It can help an instructor who builds their own class (not all do or are allowed to make their own material), as it can help them understand what students are absorbing or trying to absorb for information given. However, as both you and other commenters have mentioned, not everybody learns the same way. Grading if or how a person takes notes is absolutely insane. As a note, if you are taking classes and notice every course feels and looks like it was made with a cookie cutter, those instructors are not allowed to make their own material. It's handed to them by a dedicated team who dictates how material is presented. I've taught in environments where I was given the material structure (and expected to follow it like a bible) and I've taught in environments where I had to design and build my own lectures and flow. I preferred designing my own and loathed material designed by "experts" who didn't even know the subject they were designing the material for.

@tacticalgoldfinch8953

Жыл бұрын

In addition just looking at this from a secondary Ed standpoint. Couldn’t this just make more work for the college professor too? Trying to decipher notes and establish a grade for them? Granted class size comes in to question but still. Seems like it’s making extra work compared to checking them over

@prjndigo

Жыл бұрын

it isn't just the instructor that sees the digital turn-in now, often its other people who don't know the material but have a list of buzzwords and things to find and soon it'll be pAI doing the reviews

College professor (for ~30 years) here. I have always encouraged my students to take notes and done exercises in class showing how useful they are (you're not going to remember things I said a month later if you don't!). And I have sometimes asked students to submit them but only - as you comment in the video - as sort of a pass/fail, did you do it thing. Each student's notes are his or her own and I might give suggestions on key things left out, but never grade on that. For example, many students just list 2-3 terms without showing the cause and effect between them This makes them fairly useless in studying for an exam in my history courses. But my only goal in giving that feedback would be to help the student take more comprehensive notes, not to penalize them! I also always put my notes online so students can follow along and add more information - similar to the outline you describe. Every instructor should just want students to succeed and give them MULTIPLE ways to do so and help them, not punish them, when they struggle some with the formative activities!

@d.ursine4068

Жыл бұрын

having notes put online actually helps a lot,i cant take written notes due to a disability and most proffesors leave notes for their courses,its the best way to study as i and other students can keep up,the only proffesor that insists for us to take notes "because thats the only way to learn" we literarely understand nothing from,its unstructured ranting compared to the other proffs

@LauraTrauth

Жыл бұрын

@@d.ursine4068 I'd rather have students not stress about notes and instead engage in the class and ask questions, add to discussion!

@spencercurtis5626

Жыл бұрын

You put into words what I was thinking. You just said it more eloquently!

@benketengu

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you as long as there is a personal meeting giving the student a chance to explain things if you feel their notes are inadequate. If the student is able to articulate main points of the lesson then it’s sufficient regardless of the notes. In history if the student is well-versed in the topic they may not need notes at all. As an ESL teacher in Japan I once had a student in my mandatory introduction to English class . parents are both English teachers one of them being from Ireland and the other one being Japanese, Her English was more fluent than my sons. I gave her the option of attending class or not, and when your time permitted I gave her some more interesting material.

@jeanjaz

9 ай бұрын

So many things determine the type of notes that should be taken in a class. The subject of the class - some just need notes to be taken. The teaching style of the teacher. Some lectures are "top down" and lend themselves readily to notes. Some give background or an overall picture and don't lend themselves to notes very well. The learning style of the student. Some are aural learners, some are visual. Some have good memories, some don't. Some struggle with putting thoughts to paper, others are fluent. Instructors need to be flexible and have a teaching style that will touch on the most learning styles in some way.

I NEVER took notes because while I am writing down those notes I wind up missing out on something else.

I totally feel that way too. If you take notes, that‘s your way of interacting with the learned material. By imposing the way you take notes they hinder your way of learning. Better have you write a summary or paper and grade that.

Excellent points James, wish the instructor coild hear them. This would be great information to share with her.

I love your insights James, always. And i share these exact thoughts on this issue

As a math instructor, i can understand the need for having accurate notation, such as having sin(θ) as opposed to just "sin" in equations, because notation is made for a reason. On the other hand, in my own personal work, i use nonstandard notation all the time because the point is for you to apply that notation towards a goal, and if it is succeeding in that goal, it is successful notation. I may correct my students' work from time to time if i notice they consistently ignore notation that is necessary (if there were two distinct angles, for example, like sinθ and sinφ), but that usually indicates that i, as the instructor, have failed to teach accurately. I grew up during the Cornell Notes craze, and that system does not work for me. The organization scheme simply is not how my mind processes information. I ended up taking fewer notes in school because of it, rather than use the system i needed to absorb the material. Grading notes is like grading the napkin or chalkboard on which a rough working out is scribbled. You don't get those things peer reviewed, you get polished papers reviewed, which are presented for others after you've already finished your working out and merely collected it into readable form.

@deepsleep7822

Жыл бұрын

@proactive: IMO, nothing with using your own notation. It makes sense to you and it’s your personal stuff. IIRC, Einstein had a habit of making his own symbols in the margins of his papers. Those that can after him, reading his notes, had a hard time deciphering his notes because of this.

@wyattterrell

Жыл бұрын

I don’t mean this is in an insulting way but I have never EVER met a math teacher who could actually “TEACH math”, let alone to a student who cannot sit behind a desk all day listening to someone drone on about a subject.

@Dragonalynn

Жыл бұрын

@@deepsleep7822 They were Einstein's notes, FOR HIM, not for anyone else, so tough if they couldn't decipher them. It shows they weren't intelligent enough to fill in the gaps.

@deepsleep7822

Жыл бұрын

@@Dragonalynn : agreed. Sort of my point.

@MrWarren1991

Жыл бұрын

I hate math teachers with a passion, they think everyone learns EXACTLY like them, and that just isn't the truth, notes are notes for me not anyone else. It is kinda like the "show your work" requirement, as someone who graduated high school with 10 AP credits, I get that showing your work gets you scores on the AP test, but If I come to the exact answer in my head with no calculator and I do it repeatedly right in front of you, don't think all the extra writing is necessary. Would also like to point out the only attendance grade I received in college was in a math class.

Currently in the Master of Accountancy program at Middle Tennessee. Never had my notes graded, but I’ve had classes that the notes were so important that we gathered after class to compare what we captured and fill in any gaps we may have missed. Also, I watch the recordings of the class lectures for things I may have missed prior to taking the test. Both have saved me on test!

I had a teacher get very angry with me and demanded that I hand him my notes. He thought that I hadn't listened to him because I hadn't written anything for 10 mins. I can't help being succinct enough to encompass the entire lesson in 5 words with bullet points. He stared at them for a full minute and wordlessly handed them back utterly defeated.

I remember a time when teachers stayed in thier lane just taught. Ahhh, the 90s... I didn't even know my teachers' 1st names, what they drove, definitely not who they were kissing or voting for.

My teacher used to say, "show your work/notes" so he could see the thought process but our grades were not based on it. The teacher discovered my numerical dyslexia...and taught me a different way to do math....and also...I kept forgetting to carry the 1. Thanks to that teacher...I go a B in math for the first time in my life. It was a college level course so other than binary coding....didn't have to do math classes ever again. Showing the work is important...can help in the thought process...but I don't think it should be graded as it's not the final work. Notes are how you get to the conclusion...but it isn't the conclusion...it's catalyst that lead to the final answer. If that makes sense.

@TocYounger

Жыл бұрын

Showing your work *is not* the same as showing your notes. Notes are a personal tool to help you learn the material. Showing your work is the standing order when doing math. Not the same.

@peepla7

Жыл бұрын

@@TocYounger ahhh then that's not a good thing.

@TocYounger

Жыл бұрын

@peepla7 building a little further out... my English teacher did "grade" us on our notes once. We had to annotate some text, with the goal of writing an essay further in the course. So when grading our "notes" it was basically him sitting down with us and checking, then asking some follow up questions. The goal of the exercise being to make sure that our notes were thorough enough as to make sure we wouldn't struggle with the essay. It made sense, there was a clear reason for it, and it wasn't a surprise to us. So sometimes, there is a point to it. BUT, and this is important, when a student said "I didn't really do it the way you expected because that doesn't help my writing process," the teacher asked some questions to make sure that the student in question wasn't just being lazy (which, fair), and then proceeded to give them full marks for their "notes" despite not really having any notes to speak of. They understood the material, and the teacher acknowledged that the note-taking is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself, and responded to the individual situation. That's really the crux of the matter. Education is different for everyone and professors need to start acknowledging that. Also, as a sidebar, it's great that your teacher was able to get through to you in a way that others hadn't! Good teachers are absolutely the difference between succeeding and thriving.

Many professors are very receptive to constructive feedback. My professor changed her exam structure after many years this semester because of a few comments our class made. I know you are unbothered by it but this is definitely the kind of thing I would explain to the professor. Not to change the grade but you might learn why it's set up like that. Talking to the professor about these kinds of things can be helpful in so many unpredictable ways.

@MonkeyJedi99

Жыл бұрын

And if the fact that these notes are graded was not in the class synopsis/syllabus, you should be able to prevail if you escalate the matter.

@insanityplea5502

Жыл бұрын

Even if you dont have the time to stay for a chat, cause you (James) are a busy man with shit to do, you could email her a message about it. Just be your usual calm and polite self. Hopefully she will respond in kind and explain her reasoning and logic or give you a decent enough reason to think shes a fool.

If you're still in your first year/doing general education classes there is more hand holding because the students are usually fresh out of highschool. You will most likely get cut some more slack later on in your studies

Trig is really fun once you get it! Congrats on understanding the concepts! I also never put down the symbols in my notes! just remember to do it on tests and when you practice, you don't want to and sin(x) to sin(y) and confuse one of the terms.. like I did.. on my freshman calc test.. never seen a more disappointed professor in my life

As a last-semester senior in college, i needed a few General Education credits, so chose a few entry-level classes in subjects i hadn't been exposed to at all. One of these was intro to accounting, a freshman level course. It was dead simple; I took notes, but rarely did the homework because it wasn't graded and i didn't need it to understand the material. Going over the homework in class, about halfway through the semester, I didn't have the answer to a question because i hadn't done the homework again. The professor launched into a good ten-minute lecture - talking directly to me - about how doing the homework was critical to success in his class and in college and blah blah blah. At that time I had a 97% in his class and a 3.5 GPA overall. What I was doing appeared to be working pretty well to me. I sat there and took it - no point in arguing - but it was offensive.

@Hello-jp2jr

Жыл бұрын

I also took the first two accounting classes as part of a business option for my major. After a few days(summer class acct 101) it became obvious to the instructor that I did not do my homework. A requirement was that there would be 10 pop quizzes. They would either be a 10 question test during the class or turn in your homework. You could miss 3 quizzes without penalty. As time went on, it was a running joke in the class that the instructor would ask random question😅s about the home work. She always started out with me as, xxx did you do the homework. Nope! She finally won, after I had exhausted my 3 free ones, I had to start doing the home work. I did receive an A for both classes. She and her Professor tried to recruit me away from computer science. NO. BORING.

@DaddyBeanDaddyBean

Жыл бұрын

@@Hello-jp2jr ironically... I was a CompSci major, math minor.

@Hello-jp2jr

Жыл бұрын

@@DaddyBeanDaddyBean me too. I had already fulfilled my math minor requirement except for a couple of 500 electives that worked for both.!

@bforman1300

Жыл бұрын

An organic chem instructor mentioned heat happens because particles are moving faster. I innocently asked why, then, the wind was cold, and became the target of a 20 minute lecture about what a stupid question it was...yet he never answered it. I'm convinced he couldn't. 30y later an electrical engineer explained that it's not that they are moving faster that causes the heat, but the friction when particles bump into each other. Think cars on a highway as opposed to bumper cars.

@podpolia

Жыл бұрын

The key there was that this was a freshman-level course. I had a similar interaction with a freshman level history prof in college (though she took my word for it when I said that I had enough written for what I needed). So many of the freshmen going into college now aren't ready for it and don't bother to put the work in. A huge number fail out by the end of freshman year. I've had profs teaching introductory courses who were like that with freshmen and were far more relaxed with upperclassmen - they figure that if you've made it that far, you don't need to be babied. The prof probably didn't have any idea that you were a senior.

Yeah, I agree, when I went to college (10 years ago) I had a few teachers that did that. At best in introductory classes they were meant as an easy A to help out struggling students. But usually, it was the teacher's misguided attempt at forcing us all to organize our binders how they thought was correct rather than understanding that an adult can take & organize notes in a different way and still ace the material. Still, this should have been a line item in your syllabus.

I agree with you when I was in college I took notes and four classes I didn't write down to stuff already knew I only wrote down stuff that I thought I might have a problem with so I totally agree with you

Great questions Thoughts, It could be a way for her to check if you are receiving info correctly. Projecting out to the career field..it is very possible the next guy must continue the work you started. good notes could be helpful But yes, I agree with your viewpoint and also appreciate your acceptance of the situation.

During my 50+ years of either being a student or as the instructor (technical classes) I have never had any one review, let alone, grade my notes. As an instructor, I supplied a general outline with bullet points sheet which several of the students would use to take notes on. There were a few times when if a student was having trouble/questions I would have him refer to his notes and tell me what he wrote down. At this point we (the entire class) would have a deeper discussion on the subject matter. There were a few times when I would have to tell a student or two to stop taking notes and just listen to the information being put forth. They were to caught-up in the note taking. Just to clarify, during my 26 years in the Navy I trained folks on submarine nuclear missiles and their launching systems. After retirement from the Navy, I specialized in safety and security systems and applications. Just A Crusty Old Sailor!

when i took trig, i had an amazing instructor from cal poly! she had a habit of using a four color pack of markers on a white board. i went and bought one of those 4 color bic pens that you can switch up, and wrote down everything she did, using her same colors. then i went home and looked over what all she said to basically replay it in memory to reinforce, and of course i was in class EVERY day. worked perfect for me! i had her for calculus too. good for you for taking some of your spare time to go to school! i went after i got out of usaf, so i was still young, and very disciplined, earning two degrees: engineering and german, kind of like a dry red wine with a porterhouse steak. lots of brainiac heft to it.

I'm with you on being rubbed the wrong way. I am going back to school after being out for 5 years and it's changed even in that amount of time. I'm more of a minimalist type note taker, only writing down what I struggle with, then critically think about the information being presented. I'm currently in a class where the teaching style is to be lectured through a PowerPoint, with an accompanying notes outline from the PowerPoint with points removed and replaced with a fill in the blank. This is then turned in to be graded. I get the point of it, but at the same time, I feel I spend more time hunting for the words in the slide than listening to and thinking about the material.

Graded notes... I've been there. When I was in high school in 1972, I had a Modern World History teacher who required us to take notes and turn them in on a weekly basis. We weren't told this at the beginning, but these notes made up one-third of the final course grade, and if you didn't turn in notes, you didn't get credit for them, OR for the weekly quiz... another third of the final grade. I've been blessed with the ability to retain what I read, so I didn’t do the notes, which I thought were a waste of my time. I passed every quiz and all four course exams, with a 98% score on the final exam... and she FAILED ME for the course. I had to repeat the class in summer school, and the injustice of it soured me on education. After a long detour of not trying or caring, I eventually learned the value of education, and when I became a college instructor myself in later life, I remembered that long lesson and never set petty and arbitrary grading standards. If someone had sat me down and explained that in life, there are just some things you have to do... whether or not you think they make sense, I'd have had a much easier time.

I'm with you. Notes are a tool to help you learn. That's one thing I hated in high school was teachers showing different note taking strategies. It's great for people that don't know how to take notes, but stressful for people who already know what works for them. I also agree that if notes are to be graded, it should be more based on participation. The students took notes. Not, the students took notes but it's not how I would take them so I'm taking points off. Every college is different. I went for my Associates between 2012-2017 between community colleges in Tampa, FL and Raleigh, NC. What would get me A's in one school, would get me C's in another

@namor3607

Жыл бұрын

In high school? The percentage of students who know how to take notes effectively is a single digit percent. Most students needed that instruction.

@BabyWick351

Жыл бұрын

@@namor3607 allofem

So the short answer is maybe, it would depend on the teacher, My teacher did it right, I had a class where 33% of my grade was my notebook, 33% assignments and 33% tests. Day one she told us how she breaks down the grades and gave out instructions on the notes and notebooks. Each days notes would be assigned a page number as well as the days assignments. Just by following the instructions you would ace a 1/3 of your grade The notes for the day would be on the blackboard already written out so you could copy them during class and or modify as you needed to. Her suggestion being you may want to write them on scrap paper and add to as you need during the discussion before copying them to your notebook to keep it neat. I did this at first but quickly realized that her notes on board were very thorough. The note book was good too. A title page followed by an index telling where everything was by topic and page number, a syllabus on the back page. If you kept a good note book then passing the tests was pretty straight forward. It was a positive experience for me. I did come to realized that this was her teaching format, taking notes and keeping students engaged with the topic made us all understand and comprehend better.

As a current student in college I agree with your point, the best teacher I’ve had so far didn’t require notes and assigned “home work” but students were not punished in any way for not attempting either. At the end of the semester if you have done all the “homework” you had the choice of waving the final exam or taking it to replace a previous test score. The notes on the other hand were graded not by the level of detail, only on the amount of lectures you took notes for. This has worked the best for me and it sucks that most professors don’t bother promoting the hard work of all students instead of just having a bias for the ones that think the same

I'm talking about Canadian universities here, through the experiences of myself and my two kids with two post grad experiences as well. Profs sometimes give a mark for submitting notes, but it's a participation mark - just to check you're actually working in the class - and it's a pass/fail, rather than graded. You'll have to submit a number of times and either get the full 10-15%, or less depending on how many you miss. It works the same way for classes that require journals - basically notes on your thoughts about course materials or lectures, more common in fine arts classes. A prof will make comments - correct you if you have misinterpreted something or offer thought-provoking questions, but it's your own impressions so it's not graded. It's a way to monitor students' engagement in the class. Maybe it's more common in math although it didn't happen in our science courses. But the syllabus is key and I always make sure to go through it carefully. As a young undergraduate, I looked at participation marks as something I could leave out - "it's only worth 10%" - now I advise students "it's an easy 10%" and it can make the difference between letter grades.

This is so weird and I would be so mad. I mean, if she really wants to do this it's one thing, but to make a surprise test out of it is not okay. I'm a pathological doodler (helps me concentrate), wonder what she would make out of that?

Ran into this crap last year. Have been out of University for over 25 years. Had to take a couple of classes to qualify for a new position at work. No big deal. I am legally blind and have been since the late 90s. I use sound recordings to transcribe everything I do to written form. The program I used did not meet the "Format" requirments our teacher had. She basically refused to accept them and insisted I use the program the other two disabled people use. It was a piece of trash that I thought was far worse than what I used. Both of them completely failed the course BTW. Ended up failing the class because the "Notes" portion was 33% of our grade. Even though I averaged an 86% on my quizzes, tests and midterms and the final, I still failed because of my notes. Ended up having the Math Department Dean step in. This was in Wacky Oregon BTW.

Power trip for the instructor

Per the notes: When I was in high school (about 1980) I had an algebra class. First time I'd ever met a subject that truly challenged me. I'd never had to take notes and study to any great degree. Teacher had us take notes and show our work and expected to see them along with our completed tests. I was marked wrong on what I was sure was a correct answer, so I went to the teacher to ask why. It turned out that I'd not been actually solving the equation by knowing the steps involved, just that I made a lucky guess. So I didn't get credit for a "correct" answer because I used incorrect methods to accidentally arrive at the correct answer. I didn't like this at the time but later realized that the teacher was right. I found out that in the real world, errors due to bad work habits will come back to bite you. Luckily I'd remembered the algebra teacher and my errors have been fewer than they would have been, I hope. That said, your teacher was remiss in not making it clear that notes would be turned in and graded. I can see her point but she didn't communicate properly.

@luvnotvideos

Жыл бұрын

Homework is the place to demonstrate knowledge about using the proper steps, not notes. Notes are for a person to leave mental markers as reminders as needed. Homework is for showing step-by-step processes.

"The lessons taught in the schools of today are those of confusion (there is no meaning), hierarchical position (envy those above, despise those below), dependency ('success' is measured by the opinion of others and only 'experts' know the truth), obedience (do as others instruct in order to progress) and above all, conformity. A child is simply there to be filled with System-accepted 'facts', regimentally hurried from one lesson to the next to be bombarded with apparently unrelated information with any genuine enthusiasm or interest stifled in the boredom of classroom conformity. A child's intelligence is then measured by his or her meek receptivity to the systematic brainwashing and his or her ability to regurgitate these 'facts' in examinations, whilst the teacher's performance is evaluated by the speed and completeness of the indoctrination. The curriculum is very carefully controlled with standardised textbooks which teachers, whatever their personal feelings on the subject, have to teach in order to retain their jobs. Real questions about the nature of life, the reasons behind the contradictions in accepted historical absurdities, the dreams of self-expression have no part in the strait jacket of System education. People are 'consumers' and cogs in the corporate machine, and those who can accept this role are what the education process call 'successful'. If conformity is the price of 'success', those who seek alternative views and reject the indoctrination are made to experience shame and a sense of failure. We are taught that the Elite system of corporate-led consumerism has been freely created and that it provides the only answer for a meaningful, worthwhile life. Childhood happiness, enthusiasm and excitement for life are suffocated as we are taught to operate within a system which denies the very essences of humanity - love and the ability to question and search for the truth of our current existence"

I just finished my trigonometry class this last spring. Felt cool to know what you were talking about. What are you going to school for?

Men o Man words of wisdom I figured I feel the same way as you but again times are changing,.. that being said I would sit down with the teacher & ask her if i I'm understanding and doing everything of the class besides my note taking I shouldn't be judged by that,.. Again none of that makes sense I'm completing what needs to be learned in class again everybody has their own way of learning the point is as long as you can learn what you are being taught in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING

Yeah.. This does seem a little much. Some people don't even do notes. I would feel awkward about This if it were me.

I drove my high school microbiology teacher crazy because i didn't take notes. I focused on learning and got an A. In college the classes i struggled with were the ones that had obstacles to me absorbing the material during lecturers. Professors with difficult to understand accents or classes where i had to take large amounts of notes really gave me problems. My electromagnet theory professor could work problems on the board faster than i could copy them into my notes, i had no time to focus on comprehending, i would have done much better if i could have had s recording to refer back to do i could have just listened during class. Your case is interesting, in college trig is often considered a remedial class, that's not an insult just that most students learn it before entering college. As such the professor may be making an effort to make sure students are doing what they need to learn properly. I disagree with grading the contents of the notes, i could see points for turning them in. It should be a tool for the professor to spot problems. If the test reveals there is something you didn't grasp then they could refer to the notes to see if you missed something. But deducting points for the notes for something you get right on the test feels wrong because you showed that you learned the material. And deducting points on the notes for something you missed on the test is a double whammy. It's best just to not grade the contents of the notes.

@joywebster2678

Жыл бұрын

I learned by writing the notes, copying essentials off the screen notes. I hated teachers who handed out lecture notes. To me it was another textbook, and not a chance to hear, write process. So yep we ea h learn differently.

Being petty and a bit of an ass, I've only been graded on notes once. They were written in a 13th century Scandinavian runic script. The instructor was livid.

You surprised me. I was expecting classes being online? I was expecting complaining about how tests are also computerized. Definitely not this!!! I have two boys they both learn differently, and it took me a bit to figure that out. I figured it out when my son said to me, he was quite young," I can't draw a stick figure mom!". I had been a little concerned about his art projects, because he always had to have somebody guide him on how to do the simpliest things. I said to him finally after three months of being in school, " you draw what you want, art is something you feel, let your mind go" I honestly tear up writing this down, because what he drew, when given freedom, was positively remarkable. Once aware of this I was able to devise a way To teach him in a different manner than The teacher was teaching him in all subjects. Plus I was able to pass on this new found knowledge to his teachers. In conclusion we all see things differently and therefore approach things differently. Being graded on our process is wrong.

As an elementary teacher, supplying notes and an outline to students does increase performance and retention. I agree with the method, just not the execution. Personally, I am a visual learner. My master's notes are in 4 different colors and arranged in a virtual pattern that makes sense to me. Like you, I only take notes on what is important to me. Should notes be graded? No Should notes and note outlines be handed out? Absolutely. Best of luck with Trig. I only got as far as stats and that nearly killed me.

Everybody learns things differently. Some people need copious notes, and some will need nearly none. Grading people's notes is just bizarre.

I can’t take notes! My brain is wired differently! It shuts off my hearing and I can’t make any sense of what I have written down! I had an economics professor tell me to pay attention in class and let the book give me the graphs! It worked! I found out that I am an auditory learner!

Bravo!! you are spot on. I've taught for 35 years, I've only checked notes for accuracy.... that's kind of important, but I've never evaluated what I thought they should take. As you said, it's their notes. Where I have made evaluation is about how well those notes and they manner in which they were studied helped the student learn. If they did, great! If they didn't.... well, let's reevaluate what you're doing so it's more effective.... for the student. Usually that helps... still can't fix lazy, stupid or out right recalcitrance... but that's another video, huh?

My dad (a contractor) always said "if the boss says to put the shoe on the horses butt you put it on the horses butt, don't argue." I do believe she has the right to grade the notes if she stated that was part of the grade but I also think it is up to her to prove to you that your notes need improvement if she did not give full credit for them. Example: you are getting a grade of 100% on everything else then it is obvious that the notes as you have taking and using them are working so your notes should get a 100% also.

Depending on the style of the class, I can see notes being something that the teacher asks you to turn in, as a way to review what has been taught in the class and make sure everyone is up to speed on things. It can be good to have someone review one's notes to make sure everything important is being retained by the student, and if the teacher sees that someone aren't keeping as accurate note of particular things, they can ask them about it and either 1) figure out they don't need to take notes on that thing because they remember it, or 2) help them learn to take better notes on that specific topic. I, however, feel very strongly that *personal notes* should *not* be a graded assignment, especially in college. The standardized education system should be finished at the end of high school, graduate senior year and leave that crap behind, graded notes feel so Standardized Education that it hurts me to even realize someone is doing that. We aren't teenagers anymore, there are much more important things to grade, like maybe the actual assignments the teacher gives out??? Sure, as a math teacher I can see why they would note you not using theta in your note taking and maybe want to have you do that, but taking points off a grade on personal notes? That just feels like a slap in the face. Was it clear either in the syllabus or before the assignment to turn in notes was given that your notes would be a graded assignment?

Modern education, like all forms of centralized bureaucracy, is about doing as instructed. Just learn what you can and try not to get noticed.

James im with you, what business do they have grading notes?! Sure, I can understand turning in notes to show you took them and what not, but giving a grade... That would trigger me and I know I'd be having a convo with the teacher on that crap for sure. But I'm old and that just wasn't done in my day. Good on ya for rollin with it though.

As a teacher who grades notes I can say that your first impression was correct. We grade notes mostly to make sure that students are actually paying attention, but it's suppose to be a 'low stakes' assignment. Notes are also an important reference for students so I can see myself asking questions if a major equation or definition is missing. With your example I'd probably write in "Where Theta?" I do use another assignment which might be similar to what she's doing called "professional notes." This is an assignment where you rewrite and summarize your note as if you were teaching another person. These notes are much nicer but very much separate from the messing in-class notes. However, this is what I do for High-School students. If it were a college class I wouldn't bother grading notes. The students are adults and the training wheels are off.

@F3nrisTAG

Жыл бұрын

This is more commonly referred to as micromanagement.

Reminds me of business calculus. Lots to learn and sometimes just listening and watching is enough. Got an A too.

I think we all resist new things James, however im with you on the notes process. I also take notes when i need to remember something i may forget. If i know i won't need to study more on something i do not write it down

I don't take notes. I can't write fast enough, and then I miss what's next.

WTF, this old dog don't want to learn any new tricks 😆

I have never taught a college-level math course but I did teach elementary, middle, and high school level. I routinely assigned homework and took it up for a grade a couple of times a week. I required students to show ALL their work which they hated. I did this so I could see where they were having problems so that they could be addressed before the students were tested on the material. I allowed my students to redo the assignment as many times as needed for them to get a 100% on the homework assignment. This was great for my kids because even though homework was a smaller percentage of their final grade, it always brought their average up. I don't know but I wonder if maybe the professor thinks it will allow her to spot problems that need to be addressed before major grades like tests and quizzes are put in the grade book. Anyway, I'm so jealous. I wish I could afford to go back to school. Good luck and thanks for the videos.

Writing things down helps me remember. I never had any issues taking notes during class/lectures, but I definitely would have gotten weird grades on my notes because I would only jot down facts that were pivotal to me remembering the full context later. I usually wrote fast enough to keep up with the teacher's words, but if any of the students talked, it always threw me off, which generally led to me telling those people to shut the **** up.

As someone who left highschool and went straight into college and a job, I’ve never seen notes being graded before But with that said turning in a copy of notes makes sense to me, you want to make sure your understanding is what is expected or needed and having the professor look over notes is a great way to understand that Grading notes is a decent idea as it puts less weight on the tests and everything else so it can still improve your grade e.g: say your on the cusp of a letter grade or and the very edge of passing or failing if you took notes and they were graded based on the amount or effort you put into the notes that could very easily shift a grade one way or another As for grading on “correctness” that’s really iffy tbh, I think the thought process behind grading it like that is that she’s trying to get you into the habit of showing everything in your work so she can follow your steps easier when grading tests Trigonometry and other math tests it really helps both you and the teacher with what your doing knowing it’s supposed to be there is great but everyone makes mistakes and forgetting a variable could lead to getting the problem wrong Whereas with everything being shown the professor can easily follow along with what your doing and if you ended up getting something wrong they could be lenient if they see you simply didn’t carry a number or multiple by the right things in which case they might give half credit or something (it’s to their discretion though) Hope this gives some insight into why your professor might grade your notes in that particular way 😊 Thank you for all the amazing content

I'm kind of with you on this one. My notes need to serve /me/ or they . . . exist. That is, they exist without even the benefit of being a paperweight. *Examining notes and adding to them "What is this?"; "Do you know what this is?"; "Why is theta missing?"; "This is wrong, let me help or talk to Chuck, he's got this one" etc, might be a good way to go. //Grading// them, I don't get. Perhaps find out if there's a requirement upon the //teachers// to grade or otherwise monitor and register notation for some undisclosed entity or purpose?

I agree with you. Every person is different. evaluation of notes should only be suggestion not mandates for a good grade. you can only give ideas that might help someone take notes but u can never tell what will actually be useful to a person

As a part of my Bachelor degree, the teachers asked to see my notes, to make sure I understood a topic clearly. I was very tired on the day of the finals and forgot some thing in my derivation process. They did help me clearify that I actually knew what I was talking about and I managed to fix my exam. I finished in 2016 and got a job lined up right away when I got home.

Love how the draw string on that hoodie makes the smiley face look. Where'd you get it at?

Also, congratulations on going back to school! I'm also in school and it's bootcamp style so it's just back to back assignments and no long breaks in between.

@BabyWick351

Жыл бұрын

Struggle is real

I doddled in the edges of my notebooks from y2 on. I wrote down everything, but that just made it stick better. I also ended up with other random crap too.

I takes notes in my own shorthand style, and I also write jokes in my notes regarding certain concepts that I find funny. It's not for anyone else, it's for me, that's why I write it in code. This style of grading would cause me to drop the class immediately because I won't tolerate someone interfering with my ability to learn something

Doing grad school at 68😊 I agree with you completely. Maybe its just to see if new students learned how to take relevant notes in highschool.

When I was in college I did have some professors require us to turn in our notes. But while they did get a "grade" it was just for participation and not as a graded assignment. But if they had ever taken the time to truly look at the notes they would have been confused and had trouble reading them. Due to my visual issues I have a strong prescription that has enabled me to write extremely small notes that are hard to read with the naked eye, and I also wrote in short hand that would complicate things if someone else needed to look at my notes.

For specifically a coding or class in a field with design documents, I could see needing to turn in a set of non-personal notes due to the need to communicate potentially complex information for someone down the line. However, that should be communicated up front and it should not be a thing in general classes. I wouldn't inflict the few notes I did take on anyone else because they were context sensitive. I had a few I stumbled on recently and I couldn't even read them because I don't remember the context, but they worked for me at the time.

I seriously hope this generated a meeting or at least a phone call with the professor for an explanation about her expectations of note taking as well as a discussion in how you yourself take notes necessary for your own retention of data. My notes ranged from very sparse to nonexistent in some subjects and very robust in others.

The only time I ever had notes graded was during a mandatory Study Skills class I took in Freshman year of college. We had weekly note checks and had to have our binders in order with all handouts and assignments sorted chronologically

I'm old(er) than you 😅, and agree with everything you said! I had a supervisor many years ago, after graduating college, who gave me some pointers on how to take notes which has tremendously helped me over the years. (That was the only good thing she ever did! Other than that, she was a disastrous train wreck of a department Director!) Notes are personal. Just as learning styles are individual. A teacher can check anything they desire in their classes. But I personally find the requirements you're experiencing to be hugely off-putting. But...I also do think you're handling it well attitude-wise 😊. Take the class, get what you can from it and move along. (Our educational system is severely messed up and broken. It needs an overhaul...)

That “professor” criticizes her lover IN THE ACT!! 💯 ControlFreak!!

The closest to that I experienced was after a lecture the teacher put questions on the board for us to answer, (pop quiz), an informal free hand quiz for us to turn in on our note paper, and it was graded.

1) no 2) no 3) One of the many problems I see with education in the USA, is the fundamental difference between the people who want to be there and the people who do not. If that is the factor that you divide most issues on you always favor those who want to be there, want to learn and will most likely do whats best for them to learn. However if your goal is child/human indoctrination and little more than childcare and profit seeking (k-12 verse college) than everything you do will be seen though those lenses. Thus public education is horrible for nearly all involved the only reason it appears to be somewhat of a success are there are still many who want to learn, therefore they apply themselves and get out of it enough or more to satisfy the metrics that measure 'success'. When it comes to college we have a massive debt issue that is not going away or improving at all.

I went to school to become a machinist. My teacher graded our notes but in a differemt way. He told us to write a 2 paragraph long detailed "Tie In" of what we accomplished each day. Then he would grade them on legibility, how easy it would be for another to pick up.where you left off, and understanding of the prinicples we were taught that day. Helped in the real world, though for other nonntrade classes I find the approach of grading notes to be an error of judgement as you mentioned people learn differently and there by the one size fits all approach doesnt work

While going to college I to was handed a notes sheet. This had all the formulas and symbols that would be taught over the semester. It was essentially one half syllabus one half cheat sheet. The only rule with this sheet was you could not use it during tests. You could however use a sheet of blank scratch paper. - Now being an avid D&D player, having learned to read (in part) from the game, I did so by coping word for word, the printed rules of the character I was playing. So for this class I did exactly the same thing. I memorized the cheat sheet to the point I could reproduce the sheet from memory. Then at the beginning of the test I took my scratch paper and pain painstakingly put every formula and symbol just as it was. Apparently the instructor (or the person next to me) did not see me reproduce said page. I was called to talk to the instructor after everyone had left. I was told that I would get a zero on the test and if I ''cheated'' again I would be thrown out of the class. It literally took me sitting down in front of the instructor and their higher ups and reproducing the page (line for line) again for them to believe that I could in fact do this. Even having test anxiety, I managed to surprise myself by doing it yet again flawlessly. Proving I did indeed ''memorize'' the formulas, just not in the normal way. - Three things happened after that. 1. I got a 110% on that test, giving me the highest grade for that test, The extra 10% was for ''original thinking.'' 2. From that test on all the instructors tried to make their ''cheat sheets'' hard to duplicate, they failed. and, 3. They moved all testing to computer testing, trying to make my approach to time consuming. What they did not know until after I graduated, was they took the questions on the test directly or indirectly from the practice tests. Therefore all I did was take practice test after practice test turning it into a game. A game that I tried speed running over and over again. To the point I was not reading the questions anymore. I simply recognized which question it was and hitting the right choice given. They only questions I had a hard time on was ones that needed a typed answer. As I'm sure you can see from the above I have problems with spelling and English structure. Not from lack of trying but being illiterate until I was 18 and having lysDexia (Mispelt intentionally). Maybe that's the reason for having long answers sometimes? Who knows? - TLDR, Notes are like art, they are subjective and the true meaning should only be known to the artist. Whether it's in short hand, memorized line by line or recorded in Klingon, notes should never be graded and should be a way for YOU and only YOU to retain the information needed in that class. If you know and can retain/reproduce that knowledge then those are the exact type of notes you should be taking. - Sounds to me the only reason notes would ever be graded is by expecting those note to be given to and read by a person that did not take said notes at the time. Just a thought. :)

I'm right there withya! An exception would be to require it if you were failing the class, then she could require them to be turned in.

In high school my AP European History teacher had a policy that if you wanted to you could turn in your notes at the end of the year for bonus points, but you had to have notes from every day of class to get it. I couldn't have cared less about the bonus points, but a friend of mine had decided on day one that he would try to fit all of his notes for the entire year on a single piece of paper, so he got the finest point pen he could, and when that wasn't fine enough he got mechanical pencils with super fine lead. He actually managed to fit the whole year onto about half of one side of the page, and he actually took fairly detailed notes. When he turned it in she thought it was just some lines drawn on the page and yelled at him until he told her to look closer. She had to use 2 magnifying glasses to get the text large enough for her to read so she could verify he had entries for every day of class. That was the last time she offered those bonus points for turning in your notes.

I’m with you 💯. I can understand the instructor verifying that you did pay enough attention to take notes on the parts most pertinent to you but no need to grade them! Everyone doesn’t take notes the same way If you know it why write it down? Sometimes the more I see the less I understand it😅

Swear I kinda feel like you and I have the same instructor right now. I wrote a paper a week ago in one of the classes I'm in and I've had issues with this lady from the start so I took my time and absolutely CRUSHED this paper. I made sure everything was absolutely perfect. It was worth 50 points. I get my feedback and grade on it and she goes on and on about how wonderful my paper was and how I went in to so much detail and used examples and all that crap. Then she grades me 30/35. She took off 5 points for POSSIBLE grammar/spelling mistakes. Now I am 1,000,000% sure there was NO mistakes so how in the fuck can she take off 5 points for POSSIBLE mistakes. I have 2 weeks left in this class and can not wait until it's over.

Up until I was in a car crash and had a bad concussion, I took a lot of my notes in shorthand unless I knew I was going to share my notes.

Agree with you. They are my notes to help ME digest the information and for ME to review while preparing for future quizzes and tests or attempting to correlate to other aspects of the subject. But they are ultimately for ME. If the instructor wants them to evaluate participation level, fine. But then it should be a pass/fail scenario. Turn them in get full points, don’t turn them in and no points….simple.

I had professors that required we turn them in, and it counted as a participation component. Basically you were there and alert, awesome. I wouldn’t care much for grading them though. Because there were courses that I had to take tons of notes in, and still struggled. Others I barely had to take any. Like you said, who are they to say

There are a number of methods that can be used to learn. Hundreds of books are out there about this subject. But you need to find a system that works for you and stick with it. I had a lot of demanding prerequisites to master. And like you I was going back to school in my middle 30s and my wife was dragging me over the coals in a divorce. In my case they tend to give you a lot of suggestions about what they feel is the absolute best way to get the job done. I quickly found myself going back to what worked in high school and junior college. I just went with the old-school method. Focus, notes, reading, and in some cases rewriting my notes. I found that concepts I actually wrote out were easier to recall. And the work just flowed. But what's right for you is what works and what you can do over and over and over. All that to just say, find what works for you and stick with it.

I learned at MIT years ago that if you understand how something works, you can solve any problem. So I never took notes and I never did homework. But I made sure I understood the topic. I don't know if it's still the same at MIT today, but this is the one thing that I remember and that has helped me most over the years. Understand things and you can accomplish amazing things

@BrandonJohnson-ud4lx

Жыл бұрын

This is how i have moved through life from the beginning. I was more interested in the pitching machine in little league than the game itself. I have never had an issue with anything technical, from development to data flow. Understanding the underlying concepts and methodology goes a long way to improving deductive reasoning skills

While in college I usually took extensive notes in classes that I wasn’t as strong in academically. The notes benefitted me, but I doubt the prof would have been able to decipher most of them. I used a combination of cursive, printing, shorthand and symbols as well as an occasional drawing. I’ve always had an almost photographic memory for material in textbooks, so that coupled with my notes served me well. I rarely went back and studied my notes because apparently just the act of writing them locked the information in my brain enough to do well on tests.

As a college level math teacher, I'm with you. Whenever I, or any of my colleagues, have had students submit notes, it was always completion/did you participate kind of thing. The only thing that I can think of as to why she was so set on the theta thing is preemptively correct syntaxes errors for when the numbers get entered in the calculator. So sin(theta) instead of sin()*theta. Or some other variation (I've seen it go wrong in a lot of creative ways). But you're right, those notes are personal to you, and there's really no reason for her to have docked points for a personal choice about your needs. Most upper level math courses drop details like that anyway, until they are needed, since mathematicians don't like writing much anyway. We try to simplify when we can As to your question about the note outline, usually those are generated based on what works decently well for the most people over many classes for years. And is most consistent with either the textbook or online homework system. It's not always the best for everyone, but it get the job done. And students will either use it, find a way that works for them, or struggle enough that I notice and find a different way to help.