My heart just bleeds listening to this. So many losses we're not even allowed to mourn.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

Well said. Not being acknowledged, not being allowed to grieve losses of people in our lives because people think non-romantic connections aren't intense or serious for some reason, just rubs salt in the wounds.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

@@swankivy and they wonder, why people are so desperate for romantic connections, and so unhappy when they have them anyways . . . humans are social creatures but somehow we got it into our minds that all affection is reserved for romantic partners and mostly mothers with small kids . . . one person is almost never enough. One expects way to much from a partner when that one person is supposed to fill the same space of a group, when they are expected to fill all our different needs of connection, comfort, a safe space to say your mind, to get called out when in the wrong, a serious and a silly presence . . . often what we need of people even stands in conflict with eachother. Pysical touch is needed for our healthy development but it gets almost always sexualised and even if not, seen as something reserved for a partner . . . we are all so starved. the devaluing of platonic bonds is deeply harmful for pretty much everyone.

@swankivy

7 ай бұрын

@@SingingSealRiana One person can't be a person's only source of deep or intense feelings! It's too much for one person to handle even if you stay forever on good terms until both of you die! Friendships can be super important. And popular presentations of "cheating" cause unnecessary suspicion too. Like a partnered person can't even have a friend of any gender they find attractive without some people (possibly the partner, possibly more or instead) insisting it's inappropriate. Like your heart can only do one thing and has one setting. I wonder how so many people got the idea that humans cannot be more complicated.

I don't understand how some people act like it's weird for people to actually love their friends. I can't count the amount of times I've heard "they wouldn't go to such lengths for each other if they were JUST friends, they must be in love." Does everyone just have really shitty friends? Because my friends and I would do anything for each other. They are family in every way but genetically. Many people have come and gone from my life, but the true friends are always there, even when they move, or I move, or we're busy for awhile, we always find a way to see each other whenever we can. I feel like some people are just speaking from their own shallow relationships and have never had real friends, and that makes me sad for them.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

I know, you're totally right. I had the same thought! Like, wait, have you ever had a true friend? Somebody who isn't just there to hang with if you need something to do, but someone you genuinely care about and would stick your neck out for and be able to depend on in your own difficult moments? Like, friendship gets such a bum rap in this society. It doesn't make sense. It shouldn't be such a foreign concept. But I guess "true love" being upheld in the media as the absolute pinnacle of what a human being can feel for another makes people tend to classify any strong feeling as romantic love, and act like it's weird or wrong to feel absolute devotion and commitment to another person if it's not motivated by romantic love and sex. They are really having crappy friendships if they need sexual or romantic attraction to care deeply for someone outside their family.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

yeah, many people really just have really shitty friends cause in their minds every deeper connection gets confused and reserved as romantic and would be seen as cheating . . . its absurd

Damn, this hit me. I've got no offline friends at this point and it sucks. Just my sister, who has kids to worry about now so we haven't spent quality time together in years

Yeah. It is really hard making friends today. As an asexual man, I often find that whenever I try to be friends with someone (particularly with opposite gender feminine people but also with everyone), people always portray it to be me displaying a sexual interest. Then, whenever they find out I'm not trying to date anyone, they accuse me of being gay. It's why I am constantly being accused of being gay, because I don't date and am friends with people. I also am at the age where everyone places me on the backburner, because everyone is dating, and I'm losing contact with all my friends in the process. It is a mourning in a way. Society doesn't value friendships like that, and they think it's weird to actually love your friends. Another thing is how weird to me is how often people attribute sinister motives to single people. Like, I've been uninvited to dinners and hangouts because I'm single, and people think I'm going to try and "make a move" on their partner for some reason. I don't understand it. That's another reason why I tend to just walk alone now.

Have you heard of Relationship Anarchy? Its a belief that there is no hierarchy between romantic, sexual or platonic relationships. And that there should be no rules in a romantic/sexual relationship that would restrict ones autonomy.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

Yeah I've known what relationship anarchy was, by that name, for at least a decade. Trouble is, most people don't subscribe to anything even in the neighborhood and continue to bleat that romantic relationships outrank everything and that non-familial and non-romantic relationships have no RIGHT to expect prioritization in someone's life.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

love it!

I am a demiromantic asexual person, and I relate to this. I was friends with someone since we were three years old and people thought we were lesbians but as soon as she got a boyfriend, I became a third wheel, and my friendship was less important. I lived with them at the time, and he was emotionally abusive, but the main thing I remember is how much our friendship changed. I didn’t know about asexuality at the time.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

That's so hard. Yeah, one of the people I talked about in this video was someone I lived with. We were super close in high school and later became college roommates but by then she had a boyfriend and she LITERALLY only wanted to spend time with me if he wasn't there. I finally stopped trying when one day he was away on a surfing trip (and had told her she couldn't come because she wouldn't fit in the truck with him and his friend; probably they actually just wanted to go surfing as buds and not babysit her, as she was a beginner and they were advanced surfers). . . and she was mooning around the house crying that she Missed Him so I decided to distract her and took her out on a picnic where I bought and prepared all the food, and the whole time she wouldn't stop talking about how she wished she was with HIM and how she thinks she could TOO have fit in that truck. I'm like yep. Yep. This is it. For whatever reason, she is not able to handle having friends at the same time as a romantic relationship. Maybe for some people it's immaturity. And maybe for some of them it's that they think it SHOULD be that way.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

its not always an asexual thing, there are other people who are reasonable when it comes to platonic relationships too, but yeah . . . this compleatly overhyping of romance that leads people to isolate themselfs for a romantic partner can be very hard. it is very individuell how much one values different typs of relationships, for some blood comes before everything else, for many its a romantic partner, for some it is friends, and sadly with how media shows things, there is very little understanding for seeing friends on the same level.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

@@swankivy media absolutly portrays it that way, that it should be that way, that if you can't function without your romantic partner it is real love . . . it is really harmful for everyone involved!

@swankivy

7 ай бұрын

@@SingingSealRiana Yes. I don't think it makes a person weak or overly dependent if they would be devastated to lose their significant other or if they miss them desperately when they're apart, but I do think finding ways to function independently after periods of adjustment to changing feelings or changing circumstances should be encouraged. And I think it's a shame that if you're a more independent person who is in love, people will doubt the truth of your love if you have a more independent life.

Great example of your friend Joe! Hopefully in most regards I'm relatively similar to that. E.g. yes, I'm a dude, yes, I'm (boringly?) straight. And yes, I've had and do have excellent friend(s) that are women - as friends - even most amazing close friends, and friends I love - platonic - and that - friends, not some romantic partner nor anything close. First of all, something I've done since forever (probably at least as long as I can ever even remember being attracted to girls/women), part of it's quite simple - if that kind of interest/attraction ain't mutual - that part of it goes nowhere - not pursued, not pushed, etc. We can be most fantastic of friends, but if sexual and/or romantic interests ain't mutual - that just doesn't happen - no acting upon it ... period. Quite similar can also happen for a myriad of other reasons - if a "relationship" (as in sexual and/or romantic) just wouldn't be appropriate - likewise, that just don't go there period. And I guess too, in a helluva lot of ways I find it relatively easy. I mean, hell, most all my life, probably well over 99% of the time I'm attracted to a woman, it ain't mutual or is otherwise not appropriate ... so that just don't go there period. And I think it's great how Joe highly stands up for you and your friendship - and wouldn't accept some partner that wasn't okay with that. That's how it should be. I'm highly likewise. Basically nobody's really serious relationship partner material for me if they'd limit or cut me off from friend(s) or family - or curtail how I'd interact with them or support them. They've got to accept that - or I don't accept them - at last not for me. And really over the years, any partner I've ever had - probably because I well pick/filter them, and they need reasonably well accept that - it's never been a problem or even an issue of any sort. Sometimes opens up some interesting questions/discussions ... e.g. some hypothetical bits on exactly where lines are or would be drawn in any and all conceivable circumstances. And yeah, ... cool with that and all quite well understood. Other semi-random bits ... I've got an amazing best friend who's a woman ... I love her, and she me, but it's platonic - doesn't go anywhere else. Am I attracted to her? Well, sure, yeah, she happens to also look great, etc., but ... that bit ain't mutual so it goes exactly nowhere and stays totally out of the way - and neither of us would have it any other way. Another example ... fabulous partner I had for many years (alas, too much mostly long distance - but that's another story), and ... very good woman friend of mine for many years. So friend and I went hiking ... out where it was pretty dang cold and wet ... got rather wet and chilled to the bone. And ... we did something quite logical before we headed out to bit later dinner. Hot tub. Two naked people, but nothin' sexual at all - yes, that's very possible - heck, entire countries/cultures do more or less that all the time or highly regularly, and it's really just not an issue. And yeah, I told my partner - not hiding anything from her. I think she had like a question or two and that was about it - it's like yeah, no problem, we're cool. And also well helps in context of relationship we've dang well had those conversations much earlier - boundaries - and exactly what is/isn't okay, etc., and in what circumstances, etc. So ... no surprises, all fine. And yeah, (earned and appropriate) trust, honesty, reasonably appropriate transparency, good strong communication - all important and relevant - to both relationships and good friendships. And really no place for jealousy or envy either. Partner and I very much loved each other - and well trusted each other, etc. Was never an issue, and hardly ever even so much as a question. Also reminds me of a (male) friend's wedding - he and bride, amazing couple ... but "best man" for the wedding? His absolute amazing close best friend of many years ... a woman - and he wouldn't have it any other way ... nor would his bride - really ought how it ought be, or at least generally be very possible and doable. And ... not everyone is up for that - but pretty simple - don't go or push over boundaries that are not to be crossed - that's it. Some can't deal with being attracted to someone they can't get closer to or pursue or isn't available or whatever - okay, if they're not up for that, move on and step out of that. I also find a lot of ignorant folks that think men and women can't be "just friends". I'm guestimating a lot of 'em are probably just projecting and thinking it can't be like that because that would never work for them ... or perhaps small number statistics where they've never had the personal experience of it happening with them - e.g. woman who's never had a guy that could just be friends with her and leave it at that. And probably too, biases from stories they've heard from others ... probably relatively few others - or confirmation bias where they seek out those stories, find them, and check off their box that says yup, more evidence of same. Anyway, great to hear you also have a friend like Joe. That's the way to do it ... and kudos too to Joe ... not everyone (or every guy) is up for doing and handling things that way. Many also "disappear" into their "new" exciting relationship - and friends and family then almost entirely drop from view ... yeah, not the way to do that. I mean sure, they may be spending quite a bit more time with partner, but ... that's no reason to effectively drop all those other connections or let them languish.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

And your attitude and experience COULD be the standard if people would just value friendships and stop viewing every important relationship as therefore potentially romantic and imperative to act on. I appreciate you saying that if the attraction isn't mutual it just doesn't progress and you aren't pushing it anywhere. That's how it should be! Too many guys are infected with that "don't give up! be persistent!" attitude though--and they seem to think losing the relationship altogether and frustrating/hurting/disturbing the woman is very much worth the "chance" (which may not exist at all). The culture of having to keep your partner on a tight leash or they'll stray is so toxic. I'm glad you don't find it difficult to avoid such things and that you wouldn't want to be with someone who sought to forbid you from certain behaviors even if you're clear that they don't violate any reasonable exclusivity. It's been so weird to me--ESPECIALLY as an asexual woman!--how MULTIPLE women have been mad that their husband or boyfriend has a friendly relationship with me and have forbidden their guy to do certain things because they insisted infidelity would otherwise be around the corner. Considering I absolutely could have "had" your dude before you met him, lady, and very much chose not to, you REALLY don't have anything to worry about. But yeah, I would think the guy would feel offended at such a thing. To be told by your closest partner that she does not trust you to be alone with another woman, that she thinks you will sleep with others if given the chance to be out of your sight with other women, that she thinks nonsexual and nonromantic expressions of care are violations of her relationship . . . that is not only super insecure behavior, but horribly insulting to the person whose behavior is being restricted. I wouldn't put up with it. I mean, if someone decided I had a problem with stealing even if I didn't, and told me repeatedly that they don't trust me alone at any retail store because I'll steal if given the chance, I'd be like "dude, who do you think I am? how dare you." Not cool. And yes, the "men and women simply can't be friends" adage is complete bunk, but it also reveals the heart of the person who says it. Not only have they revealed they're a scumbag, but they've made it clear they feel comfortable putting attitudes in others' minds and projecting their values onto everyone else as cover for their own terrible beliefs. Yeah, okay, so YOU can't control yourself around any woman you're attracted to, you're a douche, cool cool, but some people aren't, thank u next.

I've just started keeping guys somewhat at a distance emotionally because of this very problem. It's pretty easy for me to do, given that most of my social life takes place at church these days, so we're mostly in group settings, and the people who have driven me to and from church (I don't drive) have mostly been women or married couples. So I don't spend much time alone with men anymore, other than my dad. I dream of finding some kind of alternative community where multiple couples, singles and families live together, which is not only queer-friendly but also openly questions allonormativity. That is where I would truly thrive.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

It sucks that we are sometimes backed into circumstantial corners like avoiding people of certain demographics because it becomes overwhelming and many people of that background will have been taught that persistence and ignoring women's desires are perfectly fine behaviors. It would really be nice if no-pressure diverse communities existed for us.

@messinalyle4030

11 ай бұрын

@@swankivyAgreed. Although actually, when I said I kept myself from becoming super close friends with men "because of this very problem," I was referring to the problem of people taking it the wrong way if you mourn their friendship when they abandon you after getting a girlfriend. I could have made that more clear. I haven't had to deal with men's advances in quite some time, to the point that it's barely even on my radar anymore. I guess there are advantages to being both forty-plus and also fat when you're an asexual woman. That and most of the men I know these days are married.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

@@messinalyle4030 Ah yes I see. It sucks when you want to treat someone like they mean something to you and they don't understand it as anything but loss of potential romantic interaction. I've actually had several situations where a male friend got involved with a woman and CHECKED IN WITH ME before getting with her to make sure I didn't want a last chance! What the hell. I think I get less unwanted attention now than I used to as well, but I guess that's also part of being choosier about what gatherings I go to. Still hasn't stopped, like, bus stop randos or Lyft drivers.

@messinalyle4030

11 ай бұрын

@@swankivy Hmm, sounds like being eligible to use paratransit is also an advantage when it comes to avoiding men's advances. Especially when most of the drivers seem to be either women or older men. I had who I thought was a male best friend for a number of years. We got together several times a week. It felt like it was just short of being a queer platonic relationship. But I came to the realization that he was gaslighting and emotionally abusing me. I'm about ninety five percent sure in hindsight that he was grooming me for sexual assault, too. I don't miss him, but I miss the intimacy that I thought we had. At the same time, I'm less trusting.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

yeah, I am a bit paranoid about it too. I am not perticulary attractive, I am always upfront from the start, that I am ace and I still end up with people amongst my friends coming up with bs I lead them on or trying to push for more in other ways . . . not only men but since how many more straight people are out there . . .. my dream would be moving semi togeather with my best friends with both seperate and shared space. I like being around people as long as there is no expectation behind it and I feel safe. I love cuddeling and see people happy togeather, cooking togeather, eating togeather. being read to by people or storytelling . . .all the good stuff ^^

I being a demi lesbian kinda had sort of an opposite thing happen. I usually make friends on dating apps, so I was chatting to this girl who I was having a friendship with and then I got into a relationship with an enby and the girl I was having a friendship with stopped talking and I asked her why and she said "You're in a relationship, so I thought you wouldn't want to stay friends", it was really weird

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

Wow, that's bizarre! I've not had that happen but I remember once I went on a trip with one of my old work friends and her husband was with us, and when I got back and was describing the trip to another friend, he was like "Wait, WHAT? so you went on a vacation with . . . both members of a MARRIED COUPLE?" I'm like . . . yes? I like her husband too. I'm friends with her, but I'm happy to also hang with her husband. And he went on about how that was WEIRD and how he didn't understand why a married couple would even want to spend time with me because they have each other. It's so infuriating and baffling to hear that not only do people DO this; people expect others to do this, and think it's WEIRD if they DON'T drop their friends.

@4wolvenpeople

11 ай бұрын

@@swankivy I think probably the friend I made on the dating site had been looking to eventually get to a relationship, even though I'd made it clear that I had no interest in her that way, so when I had told her I was dating, she had been disapointed and just stopped replying and then just didn't want to tell me the truth. Allos sometimes can do strange things.

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

thats so messed up . . .

@SingingSealRiana

7 ай бұрын

@@swankivy yeah, I got a lot of flag for "third wheeling" a lesbian couple. I met one of them online and met them for a book exhibition, vibed well with both and met up pretty much once a week when possible. they practically adopted me, they never were weird about being a couple, I never felt excluded or like a third wheel, I would sleep over in their bed, we went on a vacation togeather . . . they just both really liked having me around and I liked both, but to others that always was incredably weird. People often struggled to tell which of us where the couple on first glance and then tried to come up with arguments why our closeness was wrong, that I was invading their privacy, despite having been invited. that one should not be ok with me and the other one cuddeling, I would destroy their relationship, bs like that . . .not realising that our infectuation with eachother was in no way a concurance to their romantic relationship . . . they where compleatly different thing! they later broke up, ironiously cause one of them tried to force opening the relationship for a third one, compleatly neglecting her not really happy with the development partner over the new girl . . . she did a lot of not nice things in the wake of that break up and then the pregnancy of her best friend and I lost closeness and then contact with her over it. I am still as emotionally close with her ex though who is the best friend someone ace can have! she and her fiancee are really chill and though the fiancee and I are not anywhere near as close, we like eachother and she has zero insecurities or jealousy over our relationship. like I was that friends plus one to a wedding, where the finacee did not feel like going too, its a running gag that her mother thought we slept with eachother, we write pretty much every day, I know pretty much everything and am the person she is most comfortable with in many cases, like when she had a bad day. their relationship is the healthyest and happiest I have ever seen! They are so cute togeather! Not I cant function without you I need you, but I like you and I want you in my life! They have beautiful communication, do romantic things for eachother that are genuinly romantic and not just gestures for the sake of it. they are both very happy for the friendships the other has . . . they just made their wedding rings ^^ they are togeather cause they want the other in their life, not cause the status of being togeather with the other defines their whole identity as many allos seam to do!

What are you going to do for your 200th video? :D

I have a sure fire way around this problem. I don't have friends. Hope you aren't in the path of the hurricane.

@swankivy

11 ай бұрын

Haha, one of its outer bands is peeing on my house right now. But we're not in the direct path.

@SusanOnTVShows

11 ай бұрын

@@swankivy LOL you have a way with words.