I think the main reason that numbers for Ace men are so low, is because so many men think and believe that s3xu4l arousal is the same thing as s3xu4l attraction/desire.

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

I have heard that too--that people who don't mind sex or have had sex and liked it are less likely to realize anything's different about their attraction compared to typical non-ace people. And of the ace guys I know, a lot of them have said something similar.

I get that its harder for men to be accepted by other men but the problems aren't harder just different. I can say women pressure guys too, trust me that is very much a thing but it will happen more to women, just as women will likely be more accepted by other women. We all have different life experiences, no need to make it a contest. When even our small group has those in it that would look to divide us up even further by gender it doesn't do anything but hurt us all.

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Men on the ace spectrum that I've talked to about this often have stories about women pushing them to be intimate or insulting their manhood or acting baffled and disappointed that they aren't always angling for sex.

@cushmanarmitige2369

Жыл бұрын

@@swankivy Ye i told a friend about such an occurrence a while back thinking it was a difficult situation she could empathise with, all she said was "why didn't you enjoy it?" Happens way more than most people would ever think. Still not as much as men to women but like i say not a contest. We all just need to be better to those around us. Also allo people need to realise not everyone wants what they want.

I think the difficulty level comes down to individual experiences and environments more than anything else. I'd say I've had things very easy in comparison to a lot of the ace experiences I've read about. The only (at least partly) gender-related difficulty I've had, as a 40+ maybe-ace, maybe-aro (going with quoi- on both fronts) man, has been difficulty knowing whether to identify as ace in the first place. Since there's still generally (not universally, but generally) a societal expectation that the man be the initiator in hetero relationships, I'm unlikely to ever be in a position where either romance or physical intimacy are expected, unless I deliberately exert significant effort to put myself into that position. Never having been in such a position, I don't really know how I would react. (Yes, plenty of people know before they've been in those situations. I'm apparently not one of those people.) So being a maybe-ace man has made it harder for me to know whether to identify as ace. Aside from that, I can't think of any way that my gender has made my maybe-ace experience more problematic or dangerous, and there are probably a lot of ways that it's made my experience easier. But those are *my* experiences. Extrapolating out to a general rule would be a huge mistake - just as much of a mistake as your commenter made by extrapolating out from his experiences and fears.

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

That's a wonderful angle! And a couple of the ace men I interviewed during my interview series said they didn't really feel that peer pressure push to get with partners or feel dehumanized or devalued because they didn't want sex (though many people DO feel this). It's SO true that the experience is so individual. And I think the tendency men have for not having the inclination and/or opportunity to talk about nuanced feelings also contributes to guys having less access to ace dialogues and spaces and not being as likely to see themselves represented in the conversations and feel that they belong. This was so well said! Thank you.

It's unfortunate that this person downplayed asexual women's experiences in the same breath he used to explain how his experiences differ (and are "more valid"). We could really benefit from more asexual men talking about their experiences: having a broader understanding of how asexuality looks for many different people and seeing where those experiences are different or similar can only be beneficial to the community as a whole. Aside from that, having more men express and talk about asexuality might help others realize that they are also ace, which might help them resist the peer pressure that they might otherwise fall victim to. I can say from experience that having no strong repulsion towards sex and not knowing that asexuality is "an option" can cause situations that - looking back - I didn't actually want to be in, so I can only see upsides to having more men share their experiences with asexuality to help others make more informed decisions! Thanks for another interesting video!

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY! We do need guys talking about it and it's such a shame he needed to voice his struggles by shaming a female ace activist for daring to suggest she has any ace-related problems since HIS are so serious! Like what makes someone think that's a good way to look for validation? It would've been fine if he'd said he wondered about the male perspective and wanted to discuss the heartbreaking danger he's in. But instead the whole tone of it was built up to scoff at me and minimize my problems. And also the way he framed being thought GAY would have been horrible made me think maybe he was even homophobic. Really sucks because like you said, some light being shed on how compulsory sexuality and varying levels of sex repulsion can lead to obscuring the truth for some of us would have been illuminating.

15:56 Any intuition behind why being ace would be rarer than other orientations?

In a way, I sort of agree with this guy in his comment. Another ways I don't. I agree that certain circles that I am involved with, if somebody comes out and says that they are homosexual. It will not end well for them. Now granted I need to change that circle and get out of it completely, however, it was just a way of life for me. I myself am not homosexual, but am demisexual. Saying that in itself is risky in the circle that I am in because of the lack of understanding. I also know several more circles of people out there who would not take kindly to something like that as well. It happens a lot more than what is actually recorded, and some people are fine with it and are very supportive but then again, there are others who are not, and I think it all depends on the demographics of your area that you live depends greatly on whether it is accepted or not

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

To be clear, I know very well that some groups of people are dangerous to be around and might hurt anyone who's not straight (or is weird to them for any reason). There are aggressive people with certain values who are willing to enforce them through violence. It just seems pointless for this guy to say "hey, I had this bad experience with these shitty people--therefore HA! You think YOU have problems? Your issues are a JOKE! Talk about the REAL problems: MINE!" Especially since the same people who would beat up or threaten a man for being queer are dangerous to women as well. Imagine some of those people going out with a woman and having her say "well I'm not sexually attracted to anyone and I will not be sleeping with you," and what kind of rejection rage and entitlement could pour out of those guys. It's weird for that guy to suggest that those men are dangerous for him but women's experience with similar people is a cakewalk.

@4745jay

Жыл бұрын

@@swankivy that I agree with. 100%

Geez. He gives me real incel vibes. But I don't think he can really be one, but I think it's pretty easy to figure out. Can't believe it's been two months since LtaA number 100.

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

Hm, I didn't read it as incel-flavored, but maybe that's because incel has become so synonymous with "misogyny" that they start to seem indistinguishable when you encounter them in the wild. I think if a man immediately minimizes and mocks a woman's problems while upholding his own problems as the REAL, ACTUAL, SERIOUS problems of the world, it's likely coming from a misogynistic place where he thinks any woman has it better than him and is bitter about it. Really can't get over how he claimed being mistaken for a lesbian would never be dangerous for a woman while being thought gay would be fatal for him. Pretty sure he would also face very little threat of violence if he refused offered heterosexual sex, while that's just something many women have faced in their lives.

This guy is clearly trying for the gold medal in the Oppression Olympics, but he does touch on the risk some ace men may face if they are stuck in an environment of toxic masculinity, which is the true problem for everyone involved/affected, including cis-het men.

@swankivy

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Agreed. Which is a huge problem and would be helpful to discuss in ace circles. I sure wish he hadn't offered that insight as AMMUNITION to suggest I don't have any legitimate problems while only HE, a MAN, has issues of consequence.

@allthisforaplaylist

Жыл бұрын

@@swankivy Yeah, that letter was... something...

amazing!