Yes, I know Knight starts with K, but we use N because K is already used by King. I believe it goes in this way in Western chess, too. What you said about the values of Knight and Bishop in Western chess is interesting. In shogi, too, same kind of thing occurs. A Bishop is considered to be more valuable than a Rook in very early stage of the game.

It is same in Shogi and Igo. Sente/Gote can mean both: 1. The players themselves 2. Taking the initiative or not (whether he can play first after the exchange or set of moves)

You're right. As long as we're talking about only the value of the piece itself, a Gold is worth more than a promoted Pawn. But Tanigawa's evaluation is all about how to evaluate the situation after piece exchange in terms of how the position is good for you in a game. From this perspective, creating a promoted pawn is worth more than a Gold. You can take advantage of the promoted Pawn being just a Pawn when it goes to your opponent's piece stand.

Dude, I've been watching this series for some time, even though I'm not practicing or anything (though I intend to do so in a near future), I find the way you explain it very interesting. So, thanks for making these videos o/

@skelofish3187

3 жыл бұрын

Have you been practicing Shogi?

thank you so much for these lessons... i'm learning a lot... i'm afraid to say that it was through the manga and anime Naruto that i got interested it Shogi... but thanks to you i'm finally learning it!! (i just have to get the names right.... and read the kanji... which is a bit hard, but it's always good stuff!!)

@homieg3829

6 жыл бұрын

Carlos Barahona Lol that's where I got the idea too

@bl3313

4 жыл бұрын

The first-ever non-Japanese shogi pro (Karolina Styczynska) first heard of shogi via Naruto, so I don't see the problem.

And by the way, capturing the opponent's Gold is worth 18 points becuase you gain 9 and he loses 9, while capturing a promoted Pawn is 13 (12+1). So, still in Tanigawa's evaluation, you would rather capture a Gold than a promoted Pawn. Creating a promoted Pawn is worth 11 (12-1), so it'll be balanced with capturing a Lance (5*2=10), or capturing a Knight (6*2=12).

Satoh and "simple" don't specify values for all promoted pieces. The only evaluation that covers all the promoted pieces, which I could find, is Tanigawa's.

Wow! This video taught me so much! Thanks a lot Hidetchi san.

wow, i really never thought of the point system in that way (regarding the last examples). Thanks

Thanks! Please keep learning and enjoy playing shogi. Oh, and I saw your videos showing your magic performance. Amazing!

A tokin on the board is worth 12 points because of its potential to be exchanged at a low risk, but in your hand a pawn is only worth 1 point because it takes a minimum of 2 moves for a pawn in hand to become a gold. On the other hand, a gold in hand is immediately useful in a single move. Therefore, exchanging a tokin for a gold is always a win in material.

The promoted pawn becomes a pawn when it goes to the opponent's piece stand. So he gets only 1 point. Please do that math, and you will understand one should exchange his promoted pawn with the opponent's gold.

Yes, of course it is possible. That is what we call a mandatory promotion. You CAN move the piece to there, but you CANNOT keep it unpromoted.

I like this thought- i was just thinking about it in a game situation that came up for me a few munites ago- i could sacrafice either a gold or a promoted pawn. This same thought occured at the time. its funny that i should find this right after the game :) i ahve ben playing shogi for 3 days now, and these videos have helped alot. Thanks, hidetchi!

Hello Hidetchi-san. Just wanted to say that you're doing a good job and to keep it up! I have never played Shogi before, but have always found it quite interesting, because it is unique with its piece-dropping rule. This is quite different to the other forms of chess, such as the Western and Chinese versions. I hope to have time to watch more videos soon! :) Thank you!

Hello, lisyaron-san. Thanks for leaving a comment. I hope you'll enjoy my videos.

your vids have tagut me well i wish i could meet you and play a game

@a4ashiro438

3 жыл бұрын

Tagut🤣

The key is to evaluate the point differential both before and after the trade. Before the trade, you had a tokin (12) vs. the opponent's gold (9), for a net difference of +3. After trading, now you have a gold (9) vs. the opponent having a pawn (1), for a net difference of +8. Clearly, the trade of your tokin for the opponent's gold is a good trade for you.

@shawnspringstead It's easier to make an attack with a rook than it is to attack with a bishop. You can pile up attackers in front of the rook to make a powerful frontal attack. It's a bit harder to make that kind of attack with a bishop, since it's diagonals are more easily blocked. So, the rook (+dragon) is the most valuable piece in shogi aside from the king.

Last game I sacked Bishop and Silver for Gold and gold to get active play and attacking chances. My opponent had a couple different checkmates on my "bear in the whole" in positions that I had threat mates. That is -2,-3,-5 respectively for the exchange chart. Sometimes the best defence is a counter attack.

wow! Thank you so much for your videos! What would I do without them? Thank you very much!

the promoted pieces don't give value to your opponent when they capture them, (and don't really matter for getting captured either), it's a way to judge how many points that you yourself get if you end the exchange with a promoted piece that was not promoted beforehand (the opportunity to promote a pawn is worth so much because you have made a gold from a pawn that gets captured as a pawn and so can be very aggressive)

@tonyjh1 yes, but when captured the promoted pawn is demoted. the reason it gains 11 points is because when it gets promoted, it becomes that much more useful. I'm not entirely sure how valuable you should consider lost promoted pieces, but it makes sense that it gains so much by promotion, whereas silver only gains 1 from promotion.

Attention aux fautes dans les sous-titres, svp ! Je ne sais pas corriger.

I recommend "NEKOMADO shogi shop" where you can buy online.

Not sure if this is too late to ask, but you me wondering at the end. Have any players (or yourself) tried to place value on the initiative? Would you rather lose 2 and have the next turn, or gain 7 but lose the next turn? I would imagine it is heavily dependent on the game state, but I would be interested if anyone has discussed it.

1:19 try pawn f7 it opens e5 to an attack by the bishop.

@eedogabbai357

3 жыл бұрын

Love the Series! learning so much

It's the same as in chess notation; 'K' is always for the King, 'N' is almost always used to denote the Knight - unless you're using algebraic notation, in which case no pieces are identified, only the movement pattern from one square to the next.

What can I use for the King, then?

i think it is because when it is captured, the piece is more powerful than a captured promoted pond. so the silver is more powerful than the pond when it is first dropped

This is probably a very difficult question, but what point value would you give taking the first turn after an exchange?

wow, there are quite a variety of possible outcomes all having pros ans cons O.o, guess I better study :P. domo arigato Hidetchi sensei ^^!

@PipocaQuemada I'm not sure of the Japanese term (it might still be sente and gote), but in English we when someone has "sente" then they have the initiative.

I'm programming Mini and Micro Shogi, and I find that the program improves significantly if the pieces on hand are assigned a slightly higher value. This makes sense, since they can literally go anywhere in the next move.

@GerSHAK

4 жыл бұрын

Very fascinating!

Aren't piece on hand more powerful because they can instantly move anywhere? Can you show numbers that account for that?

Yes, that's possible.

5:56 Where are the values of promoted minor pieces from Satoh and "simple"? I'm sure, they also give higher values for that one. Thanks for the video!

Does someone know where may I find this kind of pieces. I prefer them than the original with two characters. But all I found it's shogi with original pieces. I've never seen simplified pieces for now.... (Btw sorry if my English sounds weird... I'm French.)

I think the drop rule simply creates an asymmetry between the value of a gaining a promoted piece and the value of losing it. That is, what one side gains isn't necessarily what the other loses, making material evaluations a lot more difficult than in Chess. Strange asymmetry, and I wonder if better systems could be found. But at my current level, I'm pretty sure I'd better test out the different systems presented and see how it works out, and only formulate a complete opinion when I'm stronger

Hello? Can I share this video with you on my blog?

Is there a term for the player who goes first after an exchange? In Go, "Sente" and "Gote" (i.e. a move is sente, or a player has sente); but in Shogi, the terms refer to the players themselves (i.e. sente and gote instead of black and white to label the players)

Where did you buy the board ? i want it!

Is it possible to promote AND capture at the same time? ._." I have tried playing with the computer but i kip losing and i cant try that out ...

This value system may be very helpful to develop computer AI software.

... But that's exactly what I said... You gave the value to the pieces in order to show when is a trade worth it and when not. But still trading a promoted pawn, A piece that's worth 12 points, for a gold general, A piece that's worth 9 points, is a good thing even though according to this counting system you lose 3 points in the trade.

Haha, sorry about that "correction". I should have been sleeping long before that, so tiredness took its toll! :P Keep it up!

In chess, even though the king can't be exchanged, we still give it a value to tell us how useful it will be in the endgame when it's safe to bring the king out. Do you have a value for the king in Shogi, even though it can't be exchanged, but to tell you how useful it will be instead?

@amaxingmusic9334

5 жыл бұрын

well, unlike chess pieces are not permanently captured so there is no 'endgame' unlike chess

Well I don't understand one thing. Isn't the promoted pawn stronger then the gold because it's worth less in exchanges? When you have the chance to trade a promoted pawn for a gold it would be bad for you according to this system (if I understood correctly) but still you would gain a gold and he will only gain a pawn.

why did you jump 3 squares with the silver?

No, its because the silver is already worth as much as much as a gold but kinghts and lances are not. So a knight or lance has the strenght of a gold 9 pts but they when recaptured is worth 6 to the oponent whille a silver is 8. Thus its better to exchange promoted lance or knight or even tokin rather than silver.

A gold in the hand is worth two on the board? :D Piece value typically isn't used when the piece is in hand. We tend to use it only to gauge whether an exchange will be beneficial or not.

@GerSHAK

4 жыл бұрын

+

Wait I am confused, so you HAVE to capture a piece if you are able to capture?

@Mochizukky

7 жыл бұрын

DarkAnimaYT It's not compulsory to capture a piece. However, if you don't capture that piece, there is a likelihood that your piece will be captured in the opponent's next turn.

@FoodPunch It certainly should be, just like in chess, or your program is buggy.

Gold/Silver for Knight/Lance: Exchange 1 Rook/Bishop for Gold/Silver: Exchange 2 Rook/Bishop for Knight/Lance: Exchange 3

@pokemonguy541 he may have paused the video for a moment and placed the rook straighter :D

i want to learn how to play shogi, but which episodes can i skip if i know the rules of western chess?

@HD-fy2wu

7 жыл бұрын

U shouldnt skip any

@TokubetsuKogekitai k will be for the king not for the knight

Dude I don't understand how the silver moved to protect. It can only move around one move right

@scarletzyy

3 жыл бұрын

It's several moves but he's doing it at once just for example

Calculate how many points your opponent loses.

very much like chess

1:26 How are the silvers making that move since they can only advance one square at a time?

@TheTinyAngry

6 жыл бұрын

Caleb Rush it's just for example

@jonispatented

4 жыл бұрын

He is making multiple moves at once for the sake of demonstration

It's just an example.

Yes. Amazing videos. This point system is similar to normal chess, although generally in the short game the horse is considered more powerful than the bishop, whereas later on they swap values. By the way, Knight starts with a K, not N. (Referring to your equations.) Not sure you meant that, but I thought I'd mention it just in case you did. Once again: Amazing work with these videos. They really make me want to learn. Very well made, with sincere interest and passion. Thank you. Marinos

How am I supposed to remember these numbers lol

Why is a rook worth more?

@TheTinyAngry

6 жыл бұрын

TheSpeedOfRound because it's the most powerful piece on the board for attacking since the only defence piece that can take sideways is gold and you only get 2 of them therefore it's much harder to defend against a dragon in ur base than a horse in ur base

Oh lol THANKS A HELL LOT LOL Throughout the whole versus the come, I kept losing -.-

No offense, I love this but KNIGHT isn't spelt NIGHT as in the opposite of day It has a silent K

omg did anyone elses see that rook move by itself in 7:55