Bennett Tomlin and Cas Piancey have a weekly discussion where they try to provide a critical take on both current events in the crypto space and historical events that still have ramifications today
I think what drives me the craziest is this argument of "capitalism not bad, we just do bad capitalism." Im glad the self-avowed capitalist guest recognizes the centralising power of the corporation but then he goes on to claim capitalism is about small and local but excuse me, what?! For all of capitalist history the system tends toward centralising power because thats what power does. Liberetarians and the like always go in for this idealized market capitalism but that is an unstable fixed point if it exists at all. A winner emerges and feeds back to win even harder, the frontier encloses and the players consolidate, the system of profits-first incentives capture of markets and those who police it. That is the stable fixed point. All the "bad capitalism" doesn't come about because we lost our way or something, it is the inevitable end point, or at least until a cataclysmic failures comes about.
@sallyd37005 сағат бұрын
Love the podcast. Just throwing out, since you’re a very important role in critiquing crypto, reducing socialism as silly, maybe read Capital Vol 1, 2, 3. You may find your views have a bit of an echo in a lot of what Marx addresses in his critique of Capitalism. Marx is misunderstood by many that claim to be experts and much of what is attributed to his ideology would be quite a surprise to him. Then again, he himself said he would be anti Marxist the way he was represented.
@motionthings6 сағат бұрын
Capitalism died in 2008 when the banks and Wall street were bailed out, we just have not come to terms with it yet. We need a new system. Fun fact. Cicero invented capitalism, but his system also had morals as an integral part. Also. One of the cornerstones of a free market is free movement of labor. That is not happening, so there is no free market.
@Canadian_Skeptical6 сағат бұрын
Coffee is the great scam buster!!
@sunnohh6 сағат бұрын
I vomited when I heard creative destruction, Schumpeter bad
@ivylotus99918 сағат бұрын
I love "hacker culture," but I don't like it being co-opted by being equated with Napster kids. POC||GTFO is hacker culture, and it is compatible with innovation. Napster kid "I'd totally download a car" is not hacker culture at all. It's compatible with scammy klepto-capitalism as embodied by A16Z and other VC firms today.
@joweb13209 сағат бұрын
Thanks!
@mad6andchili11 сағат бұрын
The problem with his argument is that patches don’t fix rules. They help to change the rules to benefit the rich because we don’t live in a capitalist society by and large, we live in a representative oligarchy.
@REEEEDACTED11 сағат бұрын
ngl i died a little inside when he said “i love capitalism”
@anon_922111 сағат бұрын
I have two main problems with the point of views/arguments presented here: 1. Travis Kimmel's presentation seems idealistic to me, describing how the ideas of Adam Smith/capitalism from 250 years ago should materialize in the world, rather than analyzing the material present. E.g. even if we give powerful people (and that's just the kind of people who have millions/billions of $ to fund ventures) more free reign and don't help them when they fail, they may create some innovative companies but why should the interests behind those innovations align with the public interest? I don't find the "invisible hand" notion convincing. The most profitable innovations may well be addictive pain killers, content optimizations for addictiveness to maximize ad revenue, etc. I don't find it convincing to define capitalism as some set of ideas of an ideal free market with aligned interests and to then argue how we fail to materialize that because of state intervention and that we should have less of that. Instead, I would look at the patterns of what we see the people with a lot of capital do in the real world to pursue their interests and define the system that they created, maintain and exploit as capitalism as historical materialists did. 2. Besides the question of whether there is alignment with public interest wrt the objectives of innovation, there is also the question of which kind of probability distribution is desirable. E.g. even if the expected outcome of a free reign/creative destruction cycle is greater than with some policy based on a precautionary principle it isn't necessarily preferable. Classically rational decision makers are modeled as maximizing expected utility and that utility function usually expresses risk aversion. And the risk premiums that follow from that may be very different between a billionaire playing with their monopoly money and the average member of the populace who hasn't hedged that well against their employer/pension fund/health/housing cost being creatively destroyed. In a society that has for a long time reached the capacity to provide for the material needs of its every member, how much more risk can be justified by the promise to maybe invent marginally shinier gadgets? Also @ 45:20 : It's pretty funny that the first name in the response to this question is Peter Thiel.
@pirahnalasagne11 сағат бұрын
Probably not a great idea to have a fixed definition of capitalism as it stands at any moment in time, because this would neglect the cyclical ebbs and flows from the short-term to very long term. I thought they did a good job of pointing out the changes through time and subsequent complexity.
@pirahnalasagne10 сағат бұрын
...or in two words, 'systems theory'.
@mitchhonan973012 сағат бұрын
Cas lost this argument. Saying it with love.
@Sovjetski-11 сағат бұрын
nop
@REEEEDACTED12 сағат бұрын
yessss we eating good today boys
@marilee356612 сағат бұрын
Good discussion. Thanks guys!
@joweb132012 сағат бұрын
Crypto is a total scam.
@derektaylor3956Күн бұрын
You can’t hate everything. They provide a value whether you agree or disagree with their political and/or philosophical values with regard to policy and investment. Don’t forget to look yourself in the mirror.
@lug.53293 күн бұрын
No need to short crypto, they just go bankrupt by themselves.
@cch60424 күн бұрын
349,000 what I lost 25.00 payments each month since 2013 Until he got locked up total 349,000 where is my money Sam
@cch60424 күн бұрын
They need to take Sam out of the prison to get him a job at the federal government and get our money back since he's a cryptocurrency king . 349,000
@endodouble66915 күн бұрын
I totally didn’t loudly exclaim my joy upon seeing this video while on a train
@govindagovindaji46625 күн бұрын
34:29 If Bankman-Fried and his family are really "hobbled" coming up with a defense for this stuff, how does an appeal help? And what grounds for an appeal do you think that they would use? Any ideas? Which reminds me, now June 30, 2024 we should hear any day if Elizabeth Holmes gets her appeal.
@govindagovindaji46625 күн бұрын
20:25 If that is all well and true, which it seems it is true that FTX was never really profitable, then what was actually used to give people like Forbes or CNBC or investors the illusion that FTX was worth billions~? And where did the money to invest in things like The Arena come from? Or the money they paid celebrities? Or pay employees? Or buy real estate? Or make donations? How was any of that even possible? Is it as simple as: that it was all merely electronic filings with no backup and/ or whatever backup there was happened to be fraudulent documents? Or what, exactly? This is a major part of this saga that I cannot grasp even 2 years later and no matter how many videos I watch [still, 2 years later]. Granted, I'm green to finance.
@govindagovindaji46625 күн бұрын
14:17 That's odd. The words were "in the transcript" of what they "had said" to the FBI. So how is that putting words in their mouths? The odd part is that this tactic is being used liberally by the defense attorneys currently representing Karen Read in the Commonwealth vs Karen Read trial in June 2024. The defense is making witnesses read or account for every single word that they previously gave to investigators or the grand jury or in depositions. And not one hearsay objection is being raised against these questions. So, hearing this raises questions in both cases.
@MrKYT-gb8gs6 күн бұрын
EA is a philosophy of defeat. And ofc it's being peddle by the rich. OH don't tax us! Just let me convince my rich friends to donate money! To help! ... Later!
@roc78806 күн бұрын
for once, I am immune to the seduction of the new fad, I am just not convinced it will ever work even with the best intentions, regulations, and implementation.
@worl48 күн бұрын
Cas, you need to bring back that sturdy pablo escobar moustache
@worl49 күн бұрын
6 hours of sbf? god almighty save us
@sansmuch9 күн бұрын
This is amazing! I'm only an hour or so in, but it is bringing back so many memories of watching you two as this all went down. Thank you!
@wuldntuliktonoptb68619 күн бұрын
Oh no way this is a scam.
@wuldntuliktonoptb68619 күн бұрын
You guys get the best most informative guests on your shows guys.
@cmalmo9 күн бұрын
BREAKING: Major Canadian pension funds are considering CasCoin as a hedge in case their bond portfolios don't work out.
@TheDavidlloydjones9 күн бұрын
I don't get it: that door has been right there behind Bennett video after video after video -- and we haven't seen a cute puppy, kitten, or child come through it yet. How come Cas gets stuck with all the animal acts? C'mon guys, let's get with the program.
@TrutherOne-xv8nr7yj3e10 күн бұрын
If the Trumps had anything to do with this project ... they played their hand perfectly as no comments are forthcoming and no one knows WTF is up. With an election in the works, the SEC could never be your friend.
@stephenschiavone859210 күн бұрын
Sam Bankman-Fried being a shitty boyfriend really didn't do him any favors when 8 out of the 12 jurors were women. Odds are good they all had a Sam Bankman-Fried in their life.
@Jenjenrev10 күн бұрын
love the pod but as a woman listener sometimes cas' tendency to get visibly angry and yell/raise his voice is genuinely uncomfortable to listen to
@JewishBanker91110 күн бұрын
Nothing to see here. Just 100 Billion questions to answer now. The fall will be a great show.
@TheDavidlloydjones10 күн бұрын
June '24: OK, folks, when does reality come to BTC world?
@jezackr350010 күн бұрын
If the Wikipedia is a singular thing, how will he explain the AO3 and the whole OTW that runs it? XD A whole organisation protecting rights of the fan works and one of the biggest archives in the internet run completely on voluntary basis and supported entirely by donations.
@TheDavidlloydjones10 күн бұрын
Didn't anybody think "Silicon Valley Bank" sounded self-satirical?
@helpconflict985111 күн бұрын
From inspector gadget to dr claw
@purplepurrpurrin12 күн бұрын
Very fun to have this edit, thanks for taking the time to make it. It was a very exciting time to be involved in CasCoin.
@BanTheBBCHD12 күн бұрын
Awesome supercut of CCC reporting on the FTX/SBF fiasco. Fascinating to see how CCC reported on events and guests' input as info came to light. I think I listened to every single one at the time. This is a piece of crypto history! Well done Cas and Bennett!
@colbyapple12 күн бұрын
Great show!
@ragnarosthefirelord866212 күн бұрын
As an avid believer in Reaganomics, Effective Altruism, and other philosophies based on giving me more money, I heartily endorse CasCoin
@yvelaine12 күн бұрын
I like to re listen to things you put out …. Valuable content … unlike DJT a coin …the con job .
@georgimandzhukov564712 күн бұрын
I clicked on it because of you guys. Coffezilla was just a nice bonus. Thanks!
@LynnnnnnnnnN12 күн бұрын
You guys are friggin awesome!! Thank you for this 🤗🤗🤗🤗❤️
@frankenpenisderp12 күн бұрын
bless
@RRsalin12 күн бұрын
It HURTS listening to two of the most intelligent people I've heard in my life, and realizing the subscriber count is just 16k
@TheDavidlloydjones12 күн бұрын
There's a classical phrase, "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight."
@buriedpet12 күн бұрын
The childlike joy of Cass, Bennett, and Steven discussing the SBF indictment always manages to put a smile on my face. They had been shouting from the rooftops that SBF was a fraud, and it’s finally their moment to gloat. You can’t help but love that for them, despite the fact that tons of people lost their shirts. Such is the nature of trying to warn people about fraud.
@stephenschiavone859210 күн бұрын
Especially since Crypto-Bros are famous for being wrong at the top of their voice.
@HidingFromFate9 күн бұрын
@@stephenschiavone8592top of their voice? I'm not familiar with this phrase. Please explain.
@lenrussell24243 күн бұрын
@HidingFromFate "top of their voice" means as loud as possible. It's a shorting/permutation of the phrase "shouting at the top of your lungs".
@HidingFromFateКүн бұрын
@@lenrussell2424 Ah, that makes sense and now it's kind of obvious to me in retrospect. Thanks for clarifying.
Пікірлер
I think what drives me the craziest is this argument of "capitalism not bad, we just do bad capitalism." Im glad the self-avowed capitalist guest recognizes the centralising power of the corporation but then he goes on to claim capitalism is about small and local but excuse me, what?! For all of capitalist history the system tends toward centralising power because thats what power does. Liberetarians and the like always go in for this idealized market capitalism but that is an unstable fixed point if it exists at all. A winner emerges and feeds back to win even harder, the frontier encloses and the players consolidate, the system of profits-first incentives capture of markets and those who police it. That is the stable fixed point. All the "bad capitalism" doesn't come about because we lost our way or something, it is the inevitable end point, or at least until a cataclysmic failures comes about.
Love the podcast. Just throwing out, since you’re a very important role in critiquing crypto, reducing socialism as silly, maybe read Capital Vol 1, 2, 3. You may find your views have a bit of an echo in a lot of what Marx addresses in his critique of Capitalism. Marx is misunderstood by many that claim to be experts and much of what is attributed to his ideology would be quite a surprise to him. Then again, he himself said he would be anti Marxist the way he was represented.
Capitalism died in 2008 when the banks and Wall street were bailed out, we just have not come to terms with it yet. We need a new system. Fun fact. Cicero invented capitalism, but his system also had morals as an integral part. Also. One of the cornerstones of a free market is free movement of labor. That is not happening, so there is no free market.
Coffee is the great scam buster!!
I vomited when I heard creative destruction, Schumpeter bad
I love "hacker culture," but I don't like it being co-opted by being equated with Napster kids. POC||GTFO is hacker culture, and it is compatible with innovation. Napster kid "I'd totally download a car" is not hacker culture at all. It's compatible with scammy klepto-capitalism as embodied by A16Z and other VC firms today.
Thanks!
The problem with his argument is that patches don’t fix rules. They help to change the rules to benefit the rich because we don’t live in a capitalist society by and large, we live in a representative oligarchy.
ngl i died a little inside when he said “i love capitalism”
I have two main problems with the point of views/arguments presented here: 1. Travis Kimmel's presentation seems idealistic to me, describing how the ideas of Adam Smith/capitalism from 250 years ago should materialize in the world, rather than analyzing the material present. E.g. even if we give powerful people (and that's just the kind of people who have millions/billions of $ to fund ventures) more free reign and don't help them when they fail, they may create some innovative companies but why should the interests behind those innovations align with the public interest? I don't find the "invisible hand" notion convincing. The most profitable innovations may well be addictive pain killers, content optimizations for addictiveness to maximize ad revenue, etc. I don't find it convincing to define capitalism as some set of ideas of an ideal free market with aligned interests and to then argue how we fail to materialize that because of state intervention and that we should have less of that. Instead, I would look at the patterns of what we see the people with a lot of capital do in the real world to pursue their interests and define the system that they created, maintain and exploit as capitalism as historical materialists did. 2. Besides the question of whether there is alignment with public interest wrt the objectives of innovation, there is also the question of which kind of probability distribution is desirable. E.g. even if the expected outcome of a free reign/creative destruction cycle is greater than with some policy based on a precautionary principle it isn't necessarily preferable. Classically rational decision makers are modeled as maximizing expected utility and that utility function usually expresses risk aversion. And the risk premiums that follow from that may be very different between a billionaire playing with their monopoly money and the average member of the populace who hasn't hedged that well against their employer/pension fund/health/housing cost being creatively destroyed. In a society that has for a long time reached the capacity to provide for the material needs of its every member, how much more risk can be justified by the promise to maybe invent marginally shinier gadgets? Also @ 45:20 : It's pretty funny that the first name in the response to this question is Peter Thiel.
Probably not a great idea to have a fixed definition of capitalism as it stands at any moment in time, because this would neglect the cyclical ebbs and flows from the short-term to very long term. I thought they did a good job of pointing out the changes through time and subsequent complexity.
...or in two words, 'systems theory'.
Cas lost this argument. Saying it with love.
nop
yessss we eating good today boys
Good discussion. Thanks guys!
Crypto is a total scam.
You can’t hate everything. They provide a value whether you agree or disagree with their political and/or philosophical values with regard to policy and investment. Don’t forget to look yourself in the mirror.
No need to short crypto, they just go bankrupt by themselves.
349,000 what I lost 25.00 payments each month since 2013 Until he got locked up total 349,000 where is my money Sam
They need to take Sam out of the prison to get him a job at the federal government and get our money back since he's a cryptocurrency king . 349,000
I totally didn’t loudly exclaim my joy upon seeing this video while on a train
34:29 If Bankman-Fried and his family are really "hobbled" coming up with a defense for this stuff, how does an appeal help? And what grounds for an appeal do you think that they would use? Any ideas? Which reminds me, now June 30, 2024 we should hear any day if Elizabeth Holmes gets her appeal.
20:25 If that is all well and true, which it seems it is true that FTX was never really profitable, then what was actually used to give people like Forbes or CNBC or investors the illusion that FTX was worth billions~? And where did the money to invest in things like The Arena come from? Or the money they paid celebrities? Or pay employees? Or buy real estate? Or make donations? How was any of that even possible? Is it as simple as: that it was all merely electronic filings with no backup and/ or whatever backup there was happened to be fraudulent documents? Or what, exactly? This is a major part of this saga that I cannot grasp even 2 years later and no matter how many videos I watch [still, 2 years later]. Granted, I'm green to finance.
14:17 That's odd. The words were "in the transcript" of what they "had said" to the FBI. So how is that putting words in their mouths? The odd part is that this tactic is being used liberally by the defense attorneys currently representing Karen Read in the Commonwealth vs Karen Read trial in June 2024. The defense is making witnesses read or account for every single word that they previously gave to investigators or the grand jury or in depositions. And not one hearsay objection is being raised against these questions. So, hearing this raises questions in both cases.
EA is a philosophy of defeat. And ofc it's being peddle by the rich. OH don't tax us! Just let me convince my rich friends to donate money! To help! ... Later!
for once, I am immune to the seduction of the new fad, I am just not convinced it will ever work even with the best intentions, regulations, and implementation.
Cas, you need to bring back that sturdy pablo escobar moustache
6 hours of sbf? god almighty save us
This is amazing! I'm only an hour or so in, but it is bringing back so many memories of watching you two as this all went down. Thank you!
Oh no way this is a scam.
You guys get the best most informative guests on your shows guys.
BREAKING: Major Canadian pension funds are considering CasCoin as a hedge in case their bond portfolios don't work out.
I don't get it: that door has been right there behind Bennett video after video after video -- and we haven't seen a cute puppy, kitten, or child come through it yet. How come Cas gets stuck with all the animal acts? C'mon guys, let's get with the program.
If the Trumps had anything to do with this project ... they played their hand perfectly as no comments are forthcoming and no one knows WTF is up. With an election in the works, the SEC could never be your friend.
Sam Bankman-Fried being a shitty boyfriend really didn't do him any favors when 8 out of the 12 jurors were women. Odds are good they all had a Sam Bankman-Fried in their life.
love the pod but as a woman listener sometimes cas' tendency to get visibly angry and yell/raise his voice is genuinely uncomfortable to listen to
Nothing to see here. Just 100 Billion questions to answer now. The fall will be a great show.
June '24: OK, folks, when does reality come to BTC world?
If the Wikipedia is a singular thing, how will he explain the AO3 and the whole OTW that runs it? XD A whole organisation protecting rights of the fan works and one of the biggest archives in the internet run completely on voluntary basis and supported entirely by donations.
Didn't anybody think "Silicon Valley Bank" sounded self-satirical?
From inspector gadget to dr claw
Very fun to have this edit, thanks for taking the time to make it. It was a very exciting time to be involved in CasCoin.
Awesome supercut of CCC reporting on the FTX/SBF fiasco. Fascinating to see how CCC reported on events and guests' input as info came to light. I think I listened to every single one at the time. This is a piece of crypto history! Well done Cas and Bennett!
Great show!
As an avid believer in Reaganomics, Effective Altruism, and other philosophies based on giving me more money, I heartily endorse CasCoin
I like to re listen to things you put out …. Valuable content … unlike DJT a coin …the con job .
I clicked on it because of you guys. Coffezilla was just a nice bonus. Thanks!
You guys are friggin awesome!! Thank you for this 🤗🤗🤗🤗❤️
bless
It HURTS listening to two of the most intelligent people I've heard in my life, and realizing the subscriber count is just 16k
There's a classical phrase, "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight."
The childlike joy of Cass, Bennett, and Steven discussing the SBF indictment always manages to put a smile on my face. They had been shouting from the rooftops that SBF was a fraud, and it’s finally their moment to gloat. You can’t help but love that for them, despite the fact that tons of people lost their shirts. Such is the nature of trying to warn people about fraud.
Especially since Crypto-Bros are famous for being wrong at the top of their voice.
@@stephenschiavone8592top of their voice? I'm not familiar with this phrase. Please explain.
@HidingFromFate "top of their voice" means as loud as possible. It's a shorting/permutation of the phrase "shouting at the top of your lungs".
@@lenrussell2424 Ah, that makes sense and now it's kind of obvious to me in retrospect. Thanks for clarifying.