Hi guys, I am Mike, the world's okayest surfer and passionate jet surfing fan and I welcome all Jet Surfing Pioneers to my new video channel: JetSurfing Nation jet boards & efoils: Make Your Waves.
The new exciting sport of jet boarding and efoiling is evolving and together, we can be on the edge of the new next generation jet surfing technology to test electric and petrol jet boards, motorised surfboards and efoils! I’m involved in testing Jetsurf, Fliteboard, Liftfoils, Awake, Onean Carver, Radinn, Lampuga, JetSurf Electric, efoils, Boosted fin, Scubajet, OneWheel, Mako, eSurf, eWave and much more!
Disclaimer: I DO NOT SELL the jet boards or efoils and I am not affiliated with them or any other products I review here.
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I’m surprised big companies like Seadoo or Yamaha didn’t come out with their own versions of these jet or flite boards.
The market is very small
Nice, i am buying a Evo performance with the 89cm mast. Sold my Carver 2 this week.
Good choice!
I am a manufacturer of LBD electric surfboards. Although our electric surfboards are made in China, many of our parts are integrated parts imported from Japan. We are also one of the few manufacturers in China with complete procedures. I am very confident in the quality of our products, which is no less than many famous brands, but unfortunately I don’t know how to make our products go global.
Foil assists are light, and with the development of battery technology already appearing in EVs (solid state) the weight will only go down and run time up.
Maybe, but for the last 10 years there has been a cumulative effect of about 5% per year improvement in battery tech. I doubt in our lifetime times we will get an assist that weighs sub 1kg with decent run time and thrust.
@@markduyvesteyn The motor alone weighs 1kg, a 12s2p molicel weighs 1.7kg. Molicel have 242 Wh/kg of energy density, all the car manufacturers are investing heavily on developing solid state batteries that "don't explode" and can provide up to 400 Wh/kg. Meaning near half the weight for same capacity or double capacity. Nio, Chinese manufacturer is pushing to release a semi solid state ev next year, much sooner that everyone else, Probably the main reason behind recent EU Chinese ev import tax raise. The west is apparently being left behind in the development of next gen batteries. There are even more battery development in the pipeline that promise much increase in energy density, but that is still to far away.
@@vigolivenca there will be advancements for sure, but I’ll stick to my 6kg foil + board and Boogie for now. Even if the batteries weighed nothing, the motor and pod alone still adds 20% extra weight to my current of my set up.
I don't see the point I like the freedom and independence of efoiling. This is like going back to a boat like heavy contraption that you have to carry around and manage/worry about. It's not for me maybe some people will like it. The efficiency of an efoil is due to the gliding above the water this is basically a small boat.
I designed and developed the Boogie shown in the video. Coming from kite and sup foil, almost doubling the weight with an assist or efoil just didn’t feel right. I’m 95kg, riding a 6kg set up, and with the Boogie I get 30km range/ 2 hours battery life, there is no better feeling than getting whipped into a wave on your own gear silently. No fumes, no wake. I get messages from customers all the time saying it’s the best money they have ever spent. It really is that good. Safety is the biggest concern with the Boogie. It’s heaps safer for the user compared to an assist, as the blades are not 15cm below you. But is more dangerous for other people in the water if used inappropriately but so are cars, motor bikes and jet skis. We are implementing geo locking features like with drones, as well as public heat maps showing where they are used to help drive responsible use. Any complaints of inappropriate use and the Boogie can be restricted.
Thank you! How does the boogie come back to the rider? Lets say it got caught into the whitewash what happens next?
@@JetSurfingNationit almost never happens, as you are always in control of the throttle so you just leave the Boogie out the back. If it does get caught it self rights, and all you do it put it in Summon and pull the trigger and it will come straight back to you using GPS.
they should have made them rideable as well as for towing boards about, using a foam body would reduce weight and the hard edges, was it Jake Barnhill doing it a few years ago with some nice speeds, looks like a good tool and I hope it catches on, Cheers
Great point!
I hate to say it but after a few years of messing around with efoils and ejetboards I want to go back to a petrol powered jetski . . .
Bankruptcies
Takuma seems selling off their efoil stock
I think the biggest advantage of this technology is that it's simple. With Efoils you need to worry about weight, foiling experience, battery optimization, a lot of factors. With this it's like a Jetski where you have a piece of metal and need to make it go forward, left and right. Stuff like the weight I'm sure there will be work arounds like adding wheels, using a boat dock. When the technology develops I don't think that is the biggest concern. Even being unarmed I'm sure they will have things like autodetection or something, the biggest issue for me is always who it is for. The fact that it's cheaper than an Efoil and relatively simple makes me think it can find a decent market and legitametly seems fun. I think the biggest factor is do peopel want to buy it and it just looks fun on it's face. I don't know if it will ever blow up like Efoil but I don't think it'll be a Dead on Arrival product like the autobalancing efoil seems to be. The #1 factor for me is how it actually feels and what it will be like trying it. All the negatives seems like things that will be outgrown and the price is already at a super reasonable place.
You get it. People that prone, wing and sup don’t want to efoil due to the weight and then buying a whole new set up. A lot of this crowd get an assist but also get frustrated with the set up, bolts, tape, the weight and the drag and lack of battery life. Being towed solves all of this. The Boogie is the most fun I’ve had on a foil in 10 years, it still blows my mind.
The foil assists and new Fliteboard light surf specific efoils are getting so light and efficient that the tow products seem like five years behind. Rope in the water, unsupervised and heavy. Recovery of all your stuff in surf or boat ramp is a nightmare single handed.
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Nice video, hope you can test them side by side soon! Take off looks like they tried to be a step ahead of foil drive with features that the foil drive gen3 probably will have like a new controller with gps, air travel battery, cleaner cable management, fast charger, and cheaper if you take the flow. Cons: Interestingly I cannot find information on the website of take off regarding what kind of voltage architecture they use. Is it 28 volt or 40 volt like foil drive? Also like you said the durability of those air batteries looks questionable and the size of the air battery version looks indeed much bigger. Hope you can test it soon!
Agreed but to be fair I expect takeoff to be heavier / more drag. Durability of multiple connections of the batteries is another concern. Lets see!
Hey Mike, now that Get Foil is out of business I'm trying to get my remote into debug mode or developer mode Do you remember any of the steps?
You can ask Jeremy instagram.com/efoillakepowell?igsh=c2hycmgwdWFubWVu
I have been in contact with him just seeing what info you might remember.
I hope he can help. I never had this board myself, I only saw it once when I visited Jeremy to test it
Mike, Thank you for the video... My understanding is that Waydoo's sensors are towards the nose and vary motor output before prop breech, so a different approach than self-stabized as referenced in the title of this video. Closer to the mast there are two down facing LED lights.
That is correct. Different approach to get the same goal of stabilizing the riding
Here's a real, honest review of XFoil by 808 EFoils (Maui, Hawaii). 808 EFoils is 100% independent from XFoil and unaffiliated in any way. The inaccurate statements in this video are discussed here. kzread.info/dash/bejne/m6Goz8N8ncuwdZM.htmlsi=M5E0Fsv0D0y2inV6
Which inaccurate statements exactly? It’s good to prove the bold claims. I am glad you started to respond customers and making videos, it’s a step in a right direction! Good job 👏however my video was about stabilized efoils. The ‘review’ link doesn’t show anything about it and just the guy rides the old system. Where is stabilized efoils you marketing? Who tested it?
Can efoils hurt marine life in any way because of the propeller and sharp blades?
Sure you can hit a fish or two. But rarely happens
thank you for pointing out the red flags with X-FOIL they sent me very misleading LOUNCH notifications they wanted immediate $4000.00 I did not buy in , there was no LAUNCH , is no no EX-FOIL
I hope they all fail removes the glory.
I think market trends is budget boards to get people into the system or expensive boards for experts to ride. I don't see who needs a high cost beginner only board, it seems like this tech will need crazy RnD and I don't think the market is there.
We have a base model fully carbon fiber for $3999. (Retails for $12,000).
@@PLXDevices So at the 12k price point, you're in the same ballpark as flite/lift prices, which obviously have a proven track record of reliability, customer service, and warranty support. When you're buying a toy this expensive, those things I listed above tend to matter more than new gimmicks like the self stabilization. I feel like we're about to witness GETFOIL2.0 here
@@PLXDevicesidk why a beginner would opt for that over Fliteboard air + lesson cost.
How bout a stabilising front wing like the aquaskipper?
The front wing and tail are stabalized. It reacts 1000 times faster than any human.
@@PLXDevices do you know what I talking about?
@@PLXDevices what I meant was that the front wing on the aquaskipper will automatically level while cruising and will also accentuate the pumping motion (through the flexible hinge point on the front wing)
I have been teaching newbies to ride efoils for years. There are many challenges to learning to ride, all can be overcome in a single session with good coaching. We have a 93% success rate for 1st time riders to get on to foil safely and confidently. The other 7% had obstacles that they couldn't overcome in their first session, including balance, fear, and fitness. Handle bars can help. Inflatable collars can help. Mechanical stabilizers can help. IMHO, getting through the short learning curve is important, but then you need to have complete freedom to ride the efoil the way you want to, with or without stabilizers. Life is short. Have a little fun everyday!
Glad to find you here ! My first efoil experience was with you, two years ago. Been wanting an e-foil since then. Last week finally pulled the plug and brought a flite-board pro.
@@ep2043 Congrats! I am sure you will live your best life on your new efoil. Can you share with me why you chose a Flite rather than another brand? As you may have heard me say... "this activity is HIGHLY addictive!"
@@hawaiiefoil I think the only three brands worth considering is flite, lift, and waydoo. Waydoo is a Chinese brand. They might have good reputation but still don't have the same quality/support as lift or flite. So, it's really between lift and flite. Lift, and flite are at the same price point so it really comes down to small details. Flite seems like a better engineer board. Only two power connections, motor is at the bottom of the mast, battery tech seems better too. Overall I think flite innovates more. I think lift mast might be better, as it is carbon fiber while flite is aluminun, which is heavier. Lift offer the blowfish, which is an added perk if you want to share your board.
@@ep2043 I don't disagree with you. I am a Lift rep. I chose to work with Lift because of its history in the foiling industry. My personal focus with the efoil is to ride waves. The Lift tech supports wave riding 100%. From the folding prop, to the trigger control, to the foil combinations and mast sizes, Lift fulfills every bit of my desire to wave ride. We can even downwind on the Lift efoil, which is a special treat. In the end, as long as your efoil gets you out on the water having a good time, then you are improving your life in so many ways. Have fun out there!!
@@hawaiiefoilI heard Efoils got banned in Hawaii. Did that ever happen ? Do people like to surf with Efoil in their line-up ? Just curious about this.
Lots of false information about XFoil here. XFoil is based in Silicon Valley, California (Not China). The dynamic wings/tail can be interchanged (not sure how you missed that especially when you yourself scrolled back and forth on the video that showed it). All the comparisons facts are verifiable and true. The bladder comment is irrelevant. The "lower cost" efoils doesn't have the range and runtime capability. At the end of the video a Chinese manufacturer is mentioned to have stability. It doesn't show anything related to dynamic stability at all... We're happy to answered questions about XFoil here.
Thank you 🙏 glad you stand by your product and I hope you prove your skeptics wrong!!! Cheers 🍻 Just do more verified independent testing to win trust!
@@JetSurfingNation Please do your homework before putting out information that isn't true. If you need clarity on topics, please reach out to us, we will be happy to explain.
Yes that’s the whole point of open discussion is to cover concerns in an open manner! I am glad to be proven wrong, that’s why I welcome your comments here and on e surfer forum
@@JetSurfingNation Open discussion yes, no problem. Manufacturing false information lacks integrity. How did you arrive that our company was Chinese despite us being in business for 20+ years based in Silicon Valley, California. We're American, our CEO is American. Now you have the views, congratulations at the expense of your integrity.
Because the product produced in China and there is nothing wrong with it. You have to be honest and transparent to win trust. Iphone is not hiding the fact it’s made in China!
Not sure if this will have legs.
Lets see!
We're 20+ years in business with award winning products. It will have nice long, fast legs. :) But that's not what you want to hear on this thread right JetSurfNation? It's more fun to do biased negative reviews.
I am not biased at all, i am independent of any brand and just want to make people discuss issues openly and find solutions! I am glad you decided to help the customers after my video which makes me happy it was a good call. Also I didn’t do review of your products. I only overview what is on the market for stabilized efoils… 🍻
I don’t see the appeal. Local efoil place just posted video yesterday of 70 year old getting up on foil after 30 minutes of first lesson. I thought a one-wheel type gyro balance assist via acceleration and deceleration might be helpful for beginners but adding all the moving parts sounds like a maintenance nightmare
Great point
If you have the option to turn the Gyro stabilizing on and off, then you can have the best of both worlds and experiment. Instead of criticizing boards that are indigogo, someone needs to actually order one and do a real review instead of just criticizing! Everyone is a critic, but if you haven’t actually been able to ride the board, you can’t really talk about it adequately.
Someone unfortunately ordered xfoil and see what happened just as i worried he received total junk forum.e-surfer.com/t/xfoil-3-in-1-efoil-jetboard/2368/14
@@JetSurfingNation PLX Devices who makes XFoil is based out of California, they are co-located near Apple, manufacturing is overseas. The guy who is posting on that blog has no pictures and no video so there’s no way to know if it’s real or just a troll. If the issues are truly as bad as he says they are, he should be making a video.
I don’t have any reason to doubt it. It’s not customers job to do videos. It’s xfoil who should have done many independent testings before selling it. However in 2 years since launch of their kickstarter we have not seen any. The only video they made was quickly removed for strange reasons saying fliteboard asked to remove it but fliteboard said they didn’t… shady stuff.. co located near apple?? What that even mean 😭
The gyro sensitivity can be adjusted with the user interface. Adjustments can be made to noise cancelation and "super handling" amplification. Super handling is when a rider's input is amplified. It feels like changing wings from a large wing to a small wing on the fly.
@@JetSurfingNation "Total junk" lol. Xfoil 1 works. Xfoil 2 is the best board by far. Lighter, faster, stronger, with dynamic wings. All concerns have been answered line item by line item.
With all respect falling to water and LEARning how to adjust your stance its BIG part of efoiling. Maybe seft adjust is good for people who have some type of injuries and rentals places.
Xfoil 2 with dynamic wings will allow beginners to ride like intermediate quickly. Intermediate to advanced riders will enjoy doing maneuvers no other efoil can achieve with our "Super Maneuverability."
@@xfoil would be interesting to try your product one day.
@@Benyzland We'll be doing a tour with Xfoil 2. Where are you based?
@@xfoil Finland, but if you go to Germany then maybe i can come. Lets see
@@Benyzland We love Finland. We have many dealers from our automotive division there and in Germany as well. We'll try to make it out to you!
Removes the fun….
But it’s for beginners?
@@JetSurfingNation still
@@JetSurfingNation I think Flitescooter is good enough. If your buying one you don't want a board only for beginners, you want one you can grow with. At the very least it isn't for the type of person who actively follows an Efoil youtuber.
Let me know what you think of this new trend?
More dreamers that will lose money on their entrepreneurial fantasies
Another thing I didn’t like about Radinn was that battery runtime was an Over the Air upgrade you had to pay for, they did it to save money and effort so that less boards would get shipped in, terrible design idea, your carrying a ton of extra battery weight you dont even utilize it didn’t make sense to me. If I have 30 pounds of batteries I’m using all of it not 30% then have to pay more to use more of it
What the hell is that
@@tedarcher9120 it was Imagine you pay 6 grand for the 15 minute runtime model right? The battery is the exact same as the 45 minute runtime model but you can only access the energy for the 15 minutes of runtime. To get the 45 minutes you had to pay the extra 3 grand and it was a software upgrade.
This is another reason why I prefer building my own board for the price unless I buy the best brand in my opinion of course being Jetsurf. They are dominating and surviving the market for a reason.
Like eveytime, best of the best Mike 👍
Cheers 🍻
Terrible quality of the video - sorry
No worries 😉
@@JetSurfingNation Good stuff Mike, great info, did not watch, but listened while I worked on other things, which audio was the most important thing and it was good. Seems Jetsurf may be the way to go in the future. Cheers
Hello, the NeptunX company is bankrupt. I remember you tested it too
Oh really I didn’t know that.
Thanks for the video! I have a GetFoil and I think that it is a refined product. Very sad about them closing. I just wish that they didn't shut everything down. Keep providing parts and service while you can. Also open up your suppliers list to help us keep these boards going for as long as possible.
Great video. Going quiet has definitely proven to be a reliable sign of problems (easier for me to say in hindsight and now with my own experience with FOIL) In these days where networking and social media are so important, nothing can survive without it. Once upon a time I remember just as many if not more advertisements for FOIL than any other brand. Thise disappeared. Its also very important to set aside your emotional attachments. When you have already invested time, money, etc. into a brand it can be harder to detatch yourself emotionally from the brand and step back and look at things without that bias. It's Increasingly difficult when there are also mixed messages suggesting that R&D was continuing or pushed to next year. But again, realizing these messages are not shared more publicly to excite the brand may be part of the silence. My suspicions were growing toward the end, but those suspicions were appeased and suppressed by attachments, hopes, and some misinformation. I suspect some employees were in the same boat, especially when many dealers were also suprised... But then not surprised when it was officially over. Another brand Ive been curious about for a long time that closed doors was WeFoil. They were a brand out of Hawaii and extremely expensive. Coincidentally they also stopped posting on social media around the same time as a lawsuit from a family who's son was injured (lost his thimb) while riding one of their efoils I too can only speculate. FOIL was "*built* in USA" and only some things were manufactured or assembled in the US. Its important to make that distinction between "made" and "assembled" or "built" in _____. All in all, I've had a magical experience efoiling. I have literally surfed/ flown for thousands and thousands of miles. It's been well worth it and immensely life changing! I hope others can benefit and feel the same. Live Life to the Foilest 🏄♂️🪽🤙
Great post thank you so much, we have great memories of the visit to your magical place!! Keep riding
@@JetSurfingNation absolutely 💯. One major highlight of my FOIL era and eFoiling timeline. Happy Father's Day
Thanks for this recap, Mike Zed. The market needs to clean itself. Good lesson for anyone who wants to launch the next eFoil and Jetboard company.
Absolutely!
One could asume that the generally high pricelevels lead to a small consumer market 🤔
Which company produces the best, most reliable e-foil
It would not be fair for me to push any specific brand, i stay independent. Fliteboard, lift, awake, waydoo, sifly, manta… many
Waydoo best for price overall
Great video, thanks for making it. My 2c here as an absolute watersports addict that love foiling in all forms and spend heavily. In most industries you can deliver a product that looks good, is marketed well and succeed. That’s why most companies are marketing companies, not engineering companies. You can’t get away with that here. There is so much engineering and refinement required to make something good. Foils are extremely complex. Reliability is challenging in this environment. Cutting weight and improving usability is paramount. It has to be a really good product that performs well to be fun. I think that is why the companies that succeed have extensive engineering teams mixed with avid Watersports people in leadership.
Great point
Cheers Mike, that was very informative, Thanks a bunch Mark
Glad you enjoyed it
I’m about done building my own electric jetboard since I cant afford jetsurf
Great update I think a lot of us were wondering what happened to all of these new companies that were popping up it seemed every 4 months. I Personally think Jetsurf Titanium DFI with handlebars and Foil assist are the future for water sports. On a side note I did purchase a chinese Jet Surfboard 9 months ago and love it considering I own a real jetsurf plus Foil board that says a lot.
Which board did you get?
@@JetSurfingNation Jet Surf Electric use to have the race titanium
Great lessons for any startups and investors even outside water sports! Thank you Mike!
You're very welcome!
Awesome, thank you! Great stuff finally to compare all together that currently on the market or cooking ;)
So, I finally bought Foil Drive Gen2 Max Power battery, and already week in testing. To be honest, with 77L board and myself 84 kg (Foil North MA1850v2, mast 85, cable 20 cm), battery lasts only for 30 min and in total around 6km, testing each day and each time more or less the same, mostly flying with engine (20 cm high) and short pumps time to time to get higher. Do you know or mb someone can share their experience , how long should I expect ?
Glad you liked it!
That seems reasonable! Enjoy 😉
I received comments from Stoke Foiling on this. "A selection of some key changes since you tried it last: New larger motor - more powerful and doesn’t overheat the same way the smaller motor did on you. Updated electronics - designed to not overheat and uses power more efficiently for longer run time. New underboard receiver - great for prone foiling as you only need the nose slightly out of the water to be able to operate the unit. Also brilliant for down winding and wing foiling. New larger XR battery - the website images you may have seen don’t do this battery justice, it’s only 1cm wider, 2cm taller and 4 cm longer but has 50% more battery capacity. The work we did with the CFD analysis means it has only very slightly more drag than our standard “Sport” battery. Great for larger riders or longer down winders. Upgraded our standard “Sport” battery - this now has 211Wh capacity and a new BMS. New Travel battery - 151Wh capacity so that you can take it on airlines. That’s a lot in a year! But there are some more things we are working on releasing soon (please keep this information to yourself): Fast charger - the batteries have been upgraded for fast charging, and the fast charger launch will be coming soon. Improved remote - I know you didn’t really like the shape of our remote to hold in your hand. Later this year we will have a more comfortable option available."
Great overwiev, thank you Mike
Cheers 🥂
@@JetSurfingNation Have a great weekend, cheers 🥂