Why YOU Stay, Narcissist Cheats, Both Triangulate?
Pathological demand avoidance in the bargaining phase of the shared fantasy explains why narcissists cheat (commit adultery, infidelity, have extramarital affairs).
Some spouses elect to have extramarital affairs, deceive their partners, and remain in a marriage devoid of love, intimacy, or, often, sex. Why would any person in his right mind make such a self-defeating and demoralizing choice? Why not abandon ship altogether? Why eat the stale and putrid cake and still have it?
In order of frequency and import:
1. Money: the most recurring and crucial reason. Financial security and prosperity trump all other considerations. Driven by fear, insecurities, and sheer avarice, people sacrifice their individuality, identity, morality, values, their children's mental or physical health as well as their own, and their happiness.
2. Pity, compassion, and care for the partner. This is especially common in couples where one of the partners is parentified. Divorce feels like abandoning a helpless, hurting child.
3. Shared memories and common history. The attachment and bonding are displaced into a counterfactual and fantastic sentimental form of nostalgia. It renders the couple "sticky".
4. The children's interests and welfare come last and are rarely a truly decisive part of the calculus of pros and cons. Parents deceive themselves into believing that their kids are the reasons they are not divorcing when the true, profound motives are the above.
5. Cultural and social mores. In some societies and cultures, divorce is still frowned upon and stigmatized. It also carries inordinate costs (such as losing access to the children and the share in the community property).
6. Peer and family pressures and expectations, including the influence of pastors, therapists, judges, and friends who advocate against the dissolution of the dyad.
7. "Knowing that divorcing a person of this type is sometimes harder than managing to tolerate living with them." (comment on Instagram)
Narcissists cheat on their spouses, commit adultery and have extramarital affairs and liaisons for a variety of reasons which reflect disparate psychodynamic processes:
1. In the quest for narcissistic supply, the somatic narcissist resorts to serial sexual conquests.
2. Narcissists are easily bored (they have a low boredom threshold) and they have a low tolerance for boredom. Sexual dalliances alleviate this nagging and frustrating ennui. The quest for novelty, diversions, and thrills - a vacation from his own life - is combined with a journey of self-exploration and discovery that involves “filling in the gaps” in the narcissist’s biography: a missed adolescence, an old flame, a new aspect of his personality.
3. Narcissists maintain an island and focus of stability in their life, but all the other dimensions of their existence are chaotic, unstable, and unpredictable. This "twister" formation serves many emotional needs which I expound upon elsewhere. Thus, a narcissist may be a model employee and pursue a career path over decades even as he cheats on his wife and fritters their savings away.
4. Narcissists feel superior and important and so entitled to be above the law and to engage in behaviors that are frowned upon and considered socially unacceptable in others. They reject and vehemently resent all limitations and conditions placed upon them by their partners. They act on their impulses and desires unencumbered by social conventions and strictures.
5. Marriage, monogamy, and child-bearing and rearing are common activities that characterize the average person. The narcissist feels robbed of his uniqueness by these pursuits and coerced into the relationship and into roles - such as a husband and a father - that reduce him to the lowest of common denominators. This narcissistic injury leads him to rebel and reassert his superiority and specialness by maintaining extramarital affairs.
6. Narcissists are control freaks. Having a relationship implies a give-and-take and a train of compromises which the narcissist acutely interprets to mean a loss of control over his life. To reassert control, the narcissist initiates other relationships in which he dictates the terms of engagement (love affairs).
7. Narcissists are terrified of intimacy. Their behavior is best characterized as an approach-avoidance repetition compulsion. Adultery is an excellent tool in the attempt to retard intimacy and resort to a less threatening mode of interaction.
Narcissists typically claim that they have cheated in order to “put the spark back into the relationship (with the spouse or primary intimate partner.)”
There are 2 types of triangulation (using a third party to manage the emotional, intimacy, and transactional aspects of a relationship): breakup and restorative.
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I did pity my ex. That is the number one reason I didn’t leave. I never cheated on him. Not even emotionally. Was devoted to him for six years. Over the years I became the mother role. Not by choice except that I stayed. That was my choice but that is where the pity kicked in. It wasn’t because I thought he’d die with out me. Like you said... he had survived that far without me before I showed up. It was because I thought if I showed him unconditional love and kindness, which he said he had never experienced in life, than he could believe in himself and others. My pity was to show kindness to correct his perception of the world and his own abilities towards himself and society. But no. It was taken advantage of and seen as a weakness in me. I became an emotional punching bag and a few times at the end ... a physical punching bag. That is why I’m gone from it all. It took 2 years in therapy, after leaving, to let anyone close to me again. It stripped away my trust in people trying to show him you can trust people. Awful and aging life experience I will never do twice.
@agiejones7651
3 жыл бұрын
Very sorry to hear. I hope your recovery is going well. Much love 🤗💗💗💗
@jenniehettrick4204
3 жыл бұрын
@@agiejones7651 Yes and Thank you. I recommend therapy after dealing with a Narcissist. Too many times you question things that have no logical answers and you keep your own mind spinning. Therapy helped me focus, find calm, and to sleep more than 20 minutes at a time.
@agiejones7651
3 жыл бұрын
@@jenniehettrick4204 Thank you Jennie, I hear you. Great that you are feeling better. All the very best 🙌🙏🙏🙏🙏💗💗💗
@sugarsnap1000
3 жыл бұрын
I wish you all the best in the future, you deserve the very best and will get it, you sound like a very level headed caring person, never loose that, I’m going through something similar and just realizing the impact it’s had on me, I’m numb at the moment and trying to process what happened, it seems very surreal presently. I’m no where near your recovery but looking at the comments of healing after the fact gives me hope, take care 👍
@jenniehettrick4204
3 жыл бұрын
@@sugarsnap1000 Absolutely ❤️ The healing does happen. I was in therapy for 16 months directly after. Biggest help. Life saving/changing. I learned more about myself. Especially why I ever tolerated ANY of it to begin with... let alone 6 years of it. You have to heal yourself so it never happens again. Best of luck to you and love... from one to another who understands.
I never cheated on my narc.
Wow you just described us perfectly and he calls me mom sometimes!
@iranicolenco8679
4 ай бұрын
😮
After 30 years of marriage, and he refused to help me see a doctor for awful ulcer like pain. I jumped on the first way out . My children were grown up by then .
@girlynerds611
Жыл бұрын
Did you ever find out what your pain was?
@anne48503
Жыл бұрын
@@girlynerds611sounds like she got rid of her pain (in the ass) when she bounced
A narcissistic mother can abandon their child or if still physically present, emotionally abandons them.
@brynheimer306
3 жыл бұрын
In separating from my narcissist husband I'm finding that I actually have been trained into this dynamic as a very young child by my own mother. My husband started seeing my relationship with her and copied things now he uses her to triangulate against me!!
@dawn6232
3 жыл бұрын
@@brynheimer306 not all mothers love their children. Society needs to swallow that
@tulinbeyduz920
3 жыл бұрын
@@dawn6232 my mother is 70 now - she loves to give me lots of things - as if to make up for the past . She’s like a little child now . Not the monster that would drag me by my hair or hit me with her shoes or slap me across the face. In her world it never happened, and I just have a fanciful imagination.. the biggest shame is Denial . She is a lonely old lady now . No friend s, never worked and her looks have all but gone . All her kids have abandoned her . Strange how you reap what you sew. I see her once a month for dinner and that is all .. I’ve disconnected for my own health ..
@dawn6232
3 жыл бұрын
@@tulinbeyduz920 you are an amazing human being with quiet strength and infinite compassion and my life has been blessed to connect with you through your vulnerable sharing of your truth. May God bless you and may you reap what you sew, a hundredfold. You are why I continue to believe that there is good in humanity. I am honored to have crossed paths with a soul like you. ❤️
@tulinbeyduz920
3 жыл бұрын
@@dawn6232 I am on Instagram Tulin beyduz my beautiful daughter, animals and my work ❤️
I have not even ever kissed another man for 37 almost 38 years. I stay because I am terrifyed that he is the man I fell in love with. He has cheated. We have no sex life. He constantly criticizes me. And I stay because I am afraid of what he will tell our kids and everyone else. Because he will lie through his teeth and our kids are clueless of this aspect of their parents.
@lgraceanderson2557
2 жыл бұрын
Make an exit plan.
@AJ-kb9hf
2 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure how old your kids are? I left my marriage and our kids coped. Generally speaking it is hard, but worse to be kids in a bad marriage.
@humanistology
Жыл бұрын
@AJ…I agree…sometimes staying harms the kids more…consideration!
@shahnazbi8346
10 ай бұрын
Your kids do know they have always known they pick up on any tension between the parents even when they are babies.
God I consider myself an intelligent savy woman. Yet I only just began to see all this within the last 10 years! I am in Arizona. I wont get crap if we divorce and he will tell all huge lies about me behind my back and I wont even be able to defend my character. The minute we are in a fight his dimeanor changes to that of one who loathes me.
@lgraceanderson2557
2 жыл бұрын
make an exit plan!
@reneedwards1082
Жыл бұрын
I'm in the same 24 yrs to find out that the car I owned has been put into his name and I only own half our property which is devaluing and he will share things with me kindly while he is alive yet he has left everything to my kids. He abuses me verbally and made me sick which he records to make me look like a lunatic. I have become codependent as he broke me and his family are like a cult against me. It's always my fault and he has even convinced my children that I'm the bady. I'm do scared and broken. He has even convinced my family that he is the angel and I'm the problem. I never entered a hospital till I got married to him. I've lost all confidence in myself. If I leave, I get nothing and I don't have anyone who believes me, not even my family, only God can make a way where there is no way 🙏
Thank you mr Vaknin for sharing !
They don’t divorce because they’ve been stuck in a sick twisted game with their Narc spouse for so long they don’t know any other way. The Narcissist has groomed their prey to believe so many things it’s impossible to explain it all to a healthy person. “Freeze response” makes the most sense. The Narc spouse is capable of anything - so if you leave you will just feel responsible for all of it.
@brynheimer306
3 жыл бұрын
OMG GOLD🤩
@caroltruffa6811
3 жыл бұрын
I was told to told/ forced to leave, at the worst time possible-- covid crisis, not working at the time, and in need of a medical procedure. Nothing like being kicked when you are down! But the adult golden child, got to stay and ride daddy's coattails. I blame myself for nothing, but being a fool...I was a dedicated wife.
@His.Heart.
3 жыл бұрын
@@methib3306 amen
@elsie8966
2 жыл бұрын
my ex hates his ex wife from the 90s but said he didn't know if he was divorced. I was shocked when he said that. I can't believe he didn't get divorced!
You are so right doctor. That was me until my narcissistic husband died of stage 4 cancer after 31 years of a love less unfaithful marriage.
Thank you for being so honest. This Explains a lot. I hope I will have the courage to face this and quit for the sake of me and him. I would like to continue loving my narcissistic partner but it's driving me to insanity. I wish in a different world he would feel joy and knew how to empathise more. At times he does... I don't hate him, I am just sad that people get so much trauma when they are kids, the type that takes years to fix or not at all. It makes me want cry and there can be thousands of people like this on this earth.. I want to hug them and take all that pain away and maybe thats why I get entangled, I empathise too much to my detriment....
This is exactly what happened to me, my husband made me feel that I could never be without him, I’d be on my own, maybe homeless, I was cheated on, lied to, betrayed (with a 2 year transactionship of a bimbo that doesn’t mind being a dirty secret), now he has cancer, what a way to leave this earth, destroying your family on your way out.
@margaretsanfran7317
2 жыл бұрын
MY STORY EXACTLY .....A LIVING HELL HIM & HIS DIRTY SECRET I GOT OUT MAY 2019 YOUR RIGHT WHAT A WAY TO LEAVE THIS EARTH IM HOPING HE WILL BE LEAVING THIS EARTH SOON ....
@oilselevated4808
2 жыл бұрын
@@margaretsanfran7317 he died a little more than a month ago. Tried to make amends (in his delusional mind), the pain is over for him. I’m working on mine. The worst part about betrayal like that, is you lose the ability to trust. At least I’m free, and healthy (and look better on my worst day, than the whore of Havasu, on her best day
Thank you so much Dear Professor ❤
I explained all this to a friend complaining about her boyfriend of 2.5yrs. Even sent her the link and others. I now feel like an enabler and dont want to hear it anymore. I lead the horse to water and will help it drink, but cannot watch it die from thirst anymore.
Bonimis a person who is full of love. Your beautiful emotions create harmony and balance for anyone who is lucky enough to become your friend.
you are so funny and helpful. love your videos.
Yes, why don’t i leave despite all the abuse , mental and physical , and keep on letting him mistreat me and take advantage of me?I keep aaking me this question every day and still cannot let go of this terrible man… 😮
Oh my god this hits too close to home.
Have not heard of PDA before & this is very interesting because ODD is not a good fit for the more benign defiant behaviours.
The only thing I regret about my late father is that he stayed with my mom.
Does the somatic narcissist who are particularly serial cheaters feel shame fir the multiple affairs? The female somatic narcissist that was in my life was involved in at least 3 affairs at one time and was wondering if she felt shame or anxiety of being discovered. She began triangulation of me with a new partner and placed all the blame on me. I finally realized I could not handle the mental abuse and left the relationship. Then the female somatic narcissist lost it. She ended up arrested and lost her high profile job in the community. In less than a week she was seen at the gym with the new partner she was triangulation with me. Within a month she had moved in with this new man and now it appears she is having multiple affairs on this individual after living with him for the past 3 months. It's like she can't stop herself from cheating. It's like it just out of control.
The "roles" the narc cannot engage in is absolutely correct. It's literally insanity to be caught in the middle attempting to create a "family" while the narc is its own family already. And the paradoxical nature of intimacy and how the narc drives it to die is another "insane" aspect of interactions with a narc.
@pjstasyna1
3 жыл бұрын
@@Roberta_Esposito yes extensions of you but not autonomous actual "beings" in and of themsves . It's scary. The damage is so total in its reach. The partner is cut off emotionally physically spiritually and worldly from child, partner, family, life, reality. When you need the narc the most they dissolve like sugar into the water of Life. It's really annoying after awhile, and once you normalize the "let down" you literally force yourself to be grandiose just to deal with the fact you are carrying the extra load. The partner must adopt narcissistic traits to overcome the shortcoming of the narcissist in effect. The motivation though is not the same. Any half sane partner of a narc literally feels alien because everything they do, say or want to do,say is completely meaningless. Sometime will never quite fit, and the narcissist will always find some fissure or crack to exploit for absolutely insane end goals. I cannot explain it, but the expectation of let down is common place. The partner becomes absolutely paranoid that they will never remotely measure up to their partner and honestly they cannot tell you why. It's the thrill of a chase maybe? Trying to please something that is unpleasable .
@brynheimer306
3 жыл бұрын
Right on 💯💥
@mostthegames3723
3 жыл бұрын
Well put!
@aginggenxer
3 жыл бұрын
@@pjstasyna1 💯
A hand to hold on to.
Our kids are 34 and 37. Self sustaining well grounded people. I dont know how but they are.
@margaretsanfran7317
2 жыл бұрын
You are very FORTUNATE MY elder son is his doppleganger SADLY...my youngest son a nice kind polite hardworking FOOL LIKE myself who sadly has fallen for A NARCISSIST woman like his father whilst my 38 year marriage broke up in 2019 now divorced & steer clear of my EX & SONS IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN 1 RED FLAG FROM ANYONE IN MY LIFE THEIR CHAIR IS DRAGGED FROM UNDER MY TABLE & THEIR GONE ...
@alisongilroy9201
2 жыл бұрын
@@margaretsanfran7317 Sorry you have had to go through this pain and dying the death of a thousand cuts. So sorry.❤️
My daughter begged me to wait until she left for college
Wow… they prefer to destroy intensity? Fascinating. It makes sense. And yes I did become more calculating the longer I was with him. It was how I survived. . This fascinating dissection going on
Yes! I pity him!
I can't and will Not Date saying about others whether they cheat on their narcissist or Not but I have never done it and would mit so in future with any man whatsoever for very simple reasons: a) I will always stick to my own values, whether narcissist or not b) I will never behave in a revanging style, because that wouldn't bei me anymore and by doing it, the narcissist would have won and transfered me into his spitting image c) one needs to uphold strength and nerves for daily tasks instead of getting involved into a one-night-stand or in an affair with another man and d) cheating would mit be fair on the other man nore in the narcissist as someone I used to live with. What I am saying is that one bas to live according to one's own conscience and one should always do so - whether with a narcissist, with a boss, a friend, one's children or other people in one's life
@twinsma14
2 жыл бұрын
I agree. I do not cheat. I have never cheated on any man I've ever been with...it's not part of my character. I would like more insight into the coping mechanisms of women who do not cheat on the narc. I did exact revenge through humiliating him professionally.
@gal2727
2 жыл бұрын
@@twinsma14 … Seems twisted
Exactly!!!
Hello Dr. Just a clarification I am a Muslim woman. Women don’t lose custody of the kids upon divorce. I am divorced and my kid is still with me. Custody is legally lost to the mother (woman’s mother) not to the father if the woman remarries. Of course, some ex partners reach agreements where the children remain with the mother or go to the father. Really admire ur videos and appreciate the shared knowledge it’s eye opening
תודה, בונבון 😂😂❤
Best freedom ever don't stay and wacht out.🎉
Sam do you have a video that covers how to prevent ASD/ODD from crossing the threshold into NPD/ASPD?
I work in early intervention and I have seen the signs that you described towards the end of the video regarding pathological demand avoidance. Many times, the child eventually gets a diagnosis of ASD, but there are times that it’s not that. I will see very early signs of anxiety, but the demand avoidance is significant and I always wondered what they would look like as adults considering my life has been shredded by the unveiling of covert narcs and other personality disordered individuals. Can PDA be treated early on through modalities like applied behavioral analysis ABA, or other behavior shaping techniques? I feel compelled to try and modify these early behaviors to decrease the potential for bigger problems as they age.
@samvaknin
3 жыл бұрын
The first step is to recognize PDA and accept it.
@dawn6232
3 жыл бұрын
@@samvaknin I do, now I have to convince the early intervention system. Wish me strength. Thank you for empowering me in knowledge to help the children and families that I work with. I see things now that is more profound than the system can handle. I do my best.
Lol 😂 yes you are Sam ❤️
Loved his cats so much. Leaving him means cut even my feelings for the cats, accepting, that I never will see them again, when I leave. Nothing survives of our (with the man I love, who has a NPS) shared world but me, when I leave.
I do not think he wont survive without me.
@lgraceanderson2557
2 жыл бұрын
So.! but you are dying.
I’m sure I’ve watched this so many times. But why is it this time I’m more upset 🤣
Did I cause Narc injury when I caught him cheating in bed with another woman and snapped a photo of them? I don’t think he’ll be hovering me back.
@samvaknin
3 жыл бұрын
If he is proud of his sexual prowess, you only ended up giving him narcissistic supply: clearly he got a rise out of you!
@aginggenxer
3 жыл бұрын
He absolutely will hoover you, sorry 🙁
'Okay 'bonbonim'... I'm the most handsome professor of psychology on earth, after Jordan Peterson of course.' Bursting out laughing. Great sense of humour.
But I am not sure!!! And I love the man I thought he was when I married him. And yes, I do not want to go back to work. Or be alone.
@alisongilroy9201
2 жыл бұрын
I was 21 when wed and had our first child at 23. He has handled the finances and my confidence has been killed. I am 60 years old now. Yes I am afraid.
Is he conscious of everything or not?
@lgraceanderson2557
2 жыл бұрын
he is
Okkaayyy Bonbonim 😂
@leticiablazquezgomez1493
Жыл бұрын
In my view, narcisistic use nowadays polyamoris relatiionships as a theoretical framework to overtly cheat. Because technically they are not cheating. If would be interesting to analyse this relationship: narcisism and polyamori. Thank you!
Can a narcissist has more than 1 of stability island ,Sir?
@samvaknin
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, but it very rare.
@christinabeita5671
3 жыл бұрын
@@samvaknin thank you 🙏
POD 😂
Everyone at heart is a gold-digger 😷
@pjstasyna1
3 жыл бұрын
But the "digging" is for different ends. The living in box cutter suburbia is a good analogy/example. I spent about 3 years attempting this reality with a narcissist and I honestly didn't understand why they were so against it in the end. Even if they told me it was something they wanted, there was never even 1% of effort to get there. The words of a narcissist are absolutely hollow and empty, always remember this. There is no one there to actually back up what they are saying, just motivations and their own insane drives for survival
@archanakotwal3724
3 жыл бұрын
@@AlexTBon4073 everyone's digging for a different kind of gold.
@glenniirudman4609
3 жыл бұрын
I disagree
@archanakotwal3724
3 жыл бұрын
@@glenniirudman4609 I have been a survivor myself. And I was digging for approval, acceptance, and a pool of infinite love. The love I craved since childhood. I thought If I could fix this, somehow I'd be able to fix what's broken a long long time ago.
@Allahisadicksuckingmosquito
2 жыл бұрын
@@archanakotwal3724 wow... I was digging for exactly what you were digging. Then I had to dig inside myself, turned out I had none. That narcs around me robbed it throughout my life.