This is part of the reason I pushed the kickstarter so hard. You aren't just thinking about "what", you're thinking about "why" as you design.

You should look for Symbaroum armor system for inspiration, it is super fast and easy to run

@AyameAkito

4 ай бұрын

Symbaroum is great, but also to be fair enemies don't roll to hit or damage, they always hit unless you dodge to roll or soak the damage with heavy armor and they deal a static amount of damage

GM’s should be excited to see their players kill a monster in a fun way. If the monster is challenging, that makes the victory more fun. If the monster is too hard, that makes it seem like “god finally the fight is over.” The GMs job is to facilitate opportunities for the players to do cool shit. The GM should be their players’ biggest fan. Love your design philosophy, super hyped to actually GM this system.

For D&D, I always have my players roll a D20 + their AC bonus for defence against attacks. This makes a boring part of their turn far more dynamic. It gives a chance for poor AC characters to still dodge and makes tanky characters still possible to hit. And Inspiration suddenly becomes WAY more valuable. I also roll AC defence for boss monsters.

@majorlazor5058

Жыл бұрын

Joining the conversation late. Do your monsters also roll for defense? If so, do you find it slows combat down much? I love the idea of rolling for defense for players, but in my mind it could really slow down the game when every character is doing it during combat.

@kurtoogle4576

Жыл бұрын

@@majorlazor5058 I only roll Defense for important enemies. I've found that having players roll their AC Defense also increases the attention of ALL players, who find it more exciting. More opportunities to be nervous and cheer!

@majorlazor5058

Жыл бұрын

@@kurtoogle4576 okay. Sounds like a great balance. Thanks for sharing! Definitely an idea worth stealing 😈

I respect the boldness of this move. I was on the cusp of also following Professor DM's advice, but eventually I decided to instead go in the direction of highly-customizable, creatures, so DMs get to directly control the stats they bring to the table. Still love seeing the passion behind this direction, and the brilliant explanation. "Burden of Proof" is such a beautifully simple way to explain the point of TTRPGs: the game will do what it wants, and the only way to get a different result is through Player Intervention.

Palladium, which was one of the first D&D clones made armor damage reduction back in the 80s.

since playing alien rpg, bladerunner rpg, I learned the fastest way to attack is the moment the dice land, the number on the dice says yes or no. I don't need to look at another paper and do calculations Also cutting out damage rolls across the board until the GM determines that randomness of damage matters (basically single digits) makes combat WAY WAY faster and more cinematic for everyone. Also adding damage to pass the max HP is way easier to track as a GM

When AT are so similar to ST, then could you see a world, in which Weapons are handled like Spell/Miracle/Ocult casting? Basically a Sorcerer is rolling Influence (or whatever the required Skill is), to cast spells, and a Fighter is rolling Body (or a similar skill; finesse if he's using a finesse weapon), to make attacks. That way you would also have solved the finesse weapons using the finesse skill problem (where you have to track finesse in two seperate corners of the Hero Record).

Oh ok, so this works like Symbaroum. I do think you should make combat planning for the enemies to win, don't make them overpowered and be upset when they don't, but if you aren't threatening the lives of your characters then why are you having combat? Now, that said, there are times where you can throw some things as just fodder to let the players destroy them and give them a sense of how strong they have become, but every combat the enemies need to have goals, alternate victory conditions for them, otherwise you are just wasting time.

One Idea I like is removing AC & Hit rolls, and instead having everything hit Automatically, but having the total damage reduced by the creatures old AC minus 10. So a 1d8+3 sword against an AC 14 Hob goblin would do 1d8+3 minus 4. And to replace Crits you add Exploding Dice (Add an extra dice if you roll a Dies max value)

What's your thoughts on armor causing damage reduction? I remember GURPS back in the day had armor with both AC bonuses and damage reduction. Your attack test may go through, but you end up doing no damage.

Dunno if this will help, but the way I handle attacking and defending is always a contested roll. I make it so that weapons add their own bonus dice to the roll, like a D6 for a sword, and I then let the difference between the two rolls be the damage. It’s just how I do it rn, but I agree with bringing death to AC

Personally, I think there’s a couple ways to go. First, you can go with armor class and damage as it exists. Second, you can go with a standard to hit and using armor class as damage reduction. Third, in a low hit point, world, such as Hope Finder, you keep the AC is low and give a bit of damage protection and the combat is kept fast because it just aren’t that many hit points. Hope Finder is a great modern day zombie apocalypse hack of the Pathfinder game system design for quick pick up games - the beer and pretzels kind of game. One of the things to remember is you’re still doing math if you have protection as damage reduction just using smaller numbers that most people find easier to calculate because the numbers are smaller. That’s why the third system with Hope Finder works. Because the AC is minimal and the damage protection is minimal so the numbers are tiny and what makes combat exciting as everything has less hit points and goes really fast. Personally, I like using AC and straight up damage as the math is just not that hard for me and my players. one of the nice things about TTRPG’s is you can do you and I can do me. It was interesting to hear your ideas and take some things and wishing you the best of luck.

In defence of having both attack and damage rolls, it adds an extra level of granularity to the mechanics of damaging a target. That level of granularity isn't always needed for a system, and can be reduced to a result of a single roll. I believe Dungeon Coach is taking a similar approach in removing damage rolls. Other options for reducing the lag in attack rolls is simply to be open with information like AC and Hit Points as this reduces the back and forth of "does a 17 hit" etc which it sounds like would fit/is the Vagabond way already. This way the system could be sped up while maintaining the existing level of granularity. Makes me wonder about providing players with 100% knowledge of a monster's stats after defeating them, as a Pokédex style reward. That way they can go into future encounters with them with 100% meta knowledge.

+1 for using "the reason being" correctly ;)

In Vagabond, are there modifiers to skill tests to account for adverse circumstances or is a skill test always 18 minus capability?

@Indestructoboy

Жыл бұрын

Some things may Favor or Hinder the roll, or give flat bonuses/penalties based on outside factors (like Flanking).

@quickanddirtyroleplaying

Жыл бұрын

@@Indestructoboy Thank you for answering my question.

Exciting. Glad I found you.

Love your ideas, I think AC should negate damage instead of making things miss. No AC, no damage. Then depending on AC level it blocks x damage.

I’ve never been a fan of the AC since I started playing 5e, but I like to roll as a GM and I like contested rolls. I prefer (as I’ve advocated for a long time) a system of EC (Evasion Class) and AC (were it functions like protection in Vagabond). The EC would be that flat number to reach if you want to hit (without rolling), but you can also have the monster roll for evasion with a d20 plus appropriate modifier

I usually invent a personality for my mini baddies (adopted goblin,imp,kobold) after they decide not to kill it and to interrogate it instead

Im trying to make my own game d10 roll under where combat is an opposed test. The winner gets to take advantage of the other during attacking and defending.

Even some OSR games started getting rid of attack rolls. It significantly speeds things up.

But does this mean I can play an unarmored Paladin without worry of being less effective in combat? 👉👈

slight different question. What is the best way to protect your IP while still in playtest stages, editing, etc?

@Indestructoboy

11 ай бұрын

The moment you publish something publicly, you have a measure of copyright protection.

@HavokmkrStudio

11 ай бұрын

@@Indestructoboy I hadn't thought about that. I was so fixated on reading and deciphering/navigating copyright and patent info, i missed the obvious. I'm in next stage of testing/editing that I am beginning to panic as i inch closer to completion lol. Thank you

This sounds interesting

might be because im watching this tipsy, but i dont understand how you handle something being harder or easier to hit? do you just always have a static number you need to pass in order to hit an old lady or a knight?

@Indestructoboy

Жыл бұрын

Armor does not mean Evasion in Vagabond. A knight would have more damage mitigation than the old lady.

@ronmiller782

Жыл бұрын

@Indestructoboy makes sense. Can you link to a text or video where you explain evasion?

@Indestructoboy

Жыл бұрын

@@ronmiller782 I don't believe I have?

Have you considered a parry and dodge mechanic? Make sure actual hits have dire consequences.

Reminds me of a lot of d100 systems, namely Only War (which is a particularly poor example because that game was crunchy asf)

In addition to all of these great points, there is also this fact the community is coming to realize: narratively AC and HP do the same exact thing, and having them both is redundant.

Whats super super fast?

While i respect the idea of trying anything to speed up combat i feel like this kind of game design will quickly run into the design problems that Video Games faced during the 2010's. When people were mindlessly copying Dark Souls without understanding HOW it's difficult and Skyrim was king of all single player. Damage Sponges. Damage Sponges just aren't fun. Like, at all. AC gives the same functional outcome, the enemy being harder to defeat that is, but a miss feels more like "Oh i'll get it next time" rather than "We've hit this thing 20 times and we need to hit it 25 more to kill it, weeeell here i roll damage again...". If the "monster manual" for this game can hit the veeeeeery tight gap between "this is statistically impossible for us to beat" and "okay get on with it we know we're statistically gonna win" then it COULD be really great but that will be a haaaard needle to thread and any 3rd party content will have a very hard time getting it right.

Armor class IS dungeons and dragons. It's as much dnd as saving throws and 3-18 attributes. To make sure you're not making a dnd clone all of that has to go. Same with Barbarians who rage and druids who wild shape. Short and long rests. Even hit points. I prefer a wound and injury system

I mean if you really want to make an enemy that is hard to hit because their nimble you can just give them a bonus that makes AT rolls harder. Like -2, so if the player rolls a 16 and normally would hit, they have to lower it to 14. Thats probably how im gonna do it when i get my hands on the system