The church I attended for 14 years went off the deep end. I was labeled a Marxist and baby killer because I opposed Trumos candidacy in 2015. I had been one of two who voted Democrat, but politics was never emphasized in the messages. It was always about Christ and His teachings. Then the ride down a golden elevator changed everything. It was if the second coming had arrived, and their Savior descended upon a golden stair. I had a horrible premonition that things were going to get ugly. I rode out the storm until I couldn't. Until I could no longer hold my tongue. The transformation from a loving caring community of believers into a radicalized hive mind was terrifying. I departed 2017. I endured much hostility from the prior two years, but there came a point when I could no longer participate in the deceitful madness. Time to exit stage left. I tried another church which was even weirder. Then I had a moment with Jesus where He instructed me to keep my eyes fixed on Him. The next month, Covid arrived full force, everything shut down, and my walk with Him alone began. I too walk and pray. I have for years. He gave me a powerful dream that helped me connect the dots. Some time later, " Jesus and John Wayne" was published, followed by several other deep dives into the madness that had been engineered by deceitful leaders, both in the church and politically. I realized I was married to Christ, not to Church. I now attend a basic church with no bells and whistles, just the gospel. Lots of black, and brown folks, with a scattering of whites like myself. Just Jesus. No politics. Lots of love, too. I don't know how long I'll be in attendance, but it is refreshing for now. People can mess things up royally, but I'm keeping my eyes fixed on Him.

"Biblically informed intuition" is the the most Baptist description of Holy Spirit I've ever heard 😅

There is a population of Finnish Apostolic Lutherans nearby who are extremely authoritarian and conservative. No dancing, TV or movies, girls don't wear pants, families are very large, women don't speak in church or have any sort of leadership role. Those towns show up in the police logs more than any others with petty crimes like speeding, doing donuts in the park or farm fields, vandalism. Seems like the greater the restrictions, the greater the rebellion

@rosscotxla

3 ай бұрын

Rules without relationship->rebellion

Wise words from Russell Moore. Appreciate the thoughtfulness. “Trust your gut” goes a long way. Great interview. Thank you Phil and Russell.

I resonated with many things said by Dr. Moore, but especially,, "What right do I have to be cynical?"

The issue I have with this mini-series (and I’m open to being convinced otherwise) is that it feels like Holy Post is conflating going to worship services and church membership with being a Christian. Yes, being a member of a church is a HUGE part of being a Christian, but it’s not everything and it’s felt like they haven’t made that clarification. It’s almost like these episodes were geared toward baby Christians who equate the health of the universal Church or Church culture in their country with their reasons to be a Christian. A simple answer to the question the show poses would be something like “I’m still a Christian, someone who tries to apply Christ’s teachings to my life, because without Jesus I would hell-bound, stuck in my sin.” Yes, all the drama around and distractions from Jesus are sad, but when was the last time you genuinely just worshipped, thanked God for saving you, and focused more on that reason for being in a worship service than on what other people are doing?

@asdfrozen

7 ай бұрын

There are also liberal and mainline churches. A lot of us who fled (or were exiled from) conservative Evangelical churches have found a home in these churches.

@wendellraulerson6547

7 ай бұрын

EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!!! I feel Russell gave some good things for the Holy Post to keep in the conversation. Instead of adding to an easy invitation to rant about some (very real) issues let’s keep our hearts and emotions transformed and renewed by Jesus. Russell’s point that Jesus never painted an idealistic picture was really good! ““I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭33‬ Trouble is gonna be here! But Jesus!

@cjbloyer4137

7 ай бұрын

I get what you're saying, but I find these conversations encouraging. I know a great many people who have walked away from church, but retain their faith. I know more who walked away from the church AND their faith. Not because they don't "believe", but because a big part of the church is having a place where you are loved, encouraged, bolstered, and corrected in your faith. There's a TON of voices out there (especially on the internets) and while you can, as Moore stated, go along the path "Just Me and Jesus", for many people, having a loving community around them keeps them focused on the important stuff. I grew up in the conservative Evangelical churches in the States and I, too, experienced a time of rejecting the church and, to some extent, my own childhood faith. If I had not had a collective of people (a church of sorts) who consistently and graciously continued to love, encourage, and correct me, I would have simply wandered away. Not because I didn't want to follow Jesus, but because following Jesus is hard and for most of us, it takes other people walking beside us through life to keep us moving closer to Him. Also, in all honestly, I think the title is simple and eye-catching and once you're listening/watching the interviews, you can understand more deeply what point they're trying to get across.

@mikeyvangelism

7 ай бұрын

@@cjbloyer4137 well said, well said. 👍

@daneesledge1626

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, when I open up the podcast, I retitle it in my head “why I’m still in church”. And I know they do a good job with being conservative voices trying to speak up against the way their culture has gone off the rail, so I don’t think they’re trying to be deceptive in their title or get clicks. As far as I understand they have all stayed in churches they feel safe in so it makes sense from their POV.

“I’m still a Christian because I’ve redefined it”. That’s all I heard

Interesting

My answer to this question is probably very different than most. I am still a Christian because Eternal God has Sovereignly determined it to be. Gratefuliy God gave me the faith to believe and trust in His sacrifice for my sins. His Salvation was not optional nor is it revocable. I am now 82 yrs old and patiently waiting to be raptured to my Eternal Heavenly home, immediately upon my passing from this life.

Adopted for Life changed my life. Growing up in the Church, I didn't feel valuable as a woman. After all, why are we adopted as "sons" not "sons and daughters?" Russel Moore explains it in his book and talks about his international adoption journey. We really need more adoption in the Church- it changes your theology!

Being a Christian has nothing to do with politics. People who base their faith in Jesus on what political party they are apart, are not following Jesus. They are following man.

@ApollosHagman_17

4 ай бұрын

Therefore being a Christian has nothing do with morals. Many, though not all, political positions are ethical positions. Being politically neutral is being morally neutral

Wow, the persecution that men like Russell Moore and others in this series have undergone is truly unprecedented in the history of the Church. What heroes they are. What bravery! I've hardly seen such courage by Christians: It must be so rough, so hard, so gut wrenching to be a celebrity Evangelical Christian in America today. I am sure the martyrs in heaven are praising the fortitude of men and women like these, and the fact that they were able to remain followers of Jesus in spite of people disagreeing with them, even, gasp!, arguing against their views! St. Perpetua would be proud, and Bonhoeffer too.

there are be reasons to stay Christian and think this is a very cool series. But woof, (min 23:30) the idea that Christianity is real because it has survived so much corruption and fraud does not prove its super natural truth.

@patrickc3419

7 ай бұрын

Sir, please read Acts 5:12-41.

@daneesledge1626

7 ай бұрын

I must have missed that part. Haha and am glad I did

@djn5035

7 ай бұрын

@@daneesledge1626 yeah was brief and in someway a throw away comment. I think it just helped get his gears turning, wasn't central. But imaging hearing that and defending that with passages from the bible...

@daneesledge1626

7 ай бұрын

@@djn5035 it reminds me of being told that the reason America is so wealthy is the favor of God. Then discovering the truth and that our wealth is due in large part to ruthlessness of the colonizers that not only wiped out the indigenous people but then used slave labor in a savage way never done before. I was throughly indoctrinated too so get it but the idea that something existing though time as being evidence of purity and truth as opposed to maneuvers of leadership, the idea of God’s blessing when it’s really people’s skills and talent…

Around the 26 minute marker I believe Moore gives a false dichotomy when it comes to church attendance. It seems he believes that people either are Jesus only or idolize the church. There are many of us who fall into a third category where we have had to learn to trust and walk with Jesus, despite their not being a safe church for us. My last three churches left me clobbered and weaponization what they knew about past spiritual abuse. I would love to be a part of a church, but also cannot fathom going through what I went through again. Nor do I believe that a loving, Heavenly Father would desire for me to put myself in a position like that ever again. My soul cannot take being clobbered again, in the name of Jesus. So, with respect, I disagree with the dichotomy that he is presenting when it comes to people, choosing not to be in church. I am not looking for perfect, I’m looking for safe. And after the last 3 1/2 years, do not believe there are safe churches where I live. So I find a biblical community where I can, and take comfort in the fact that Jesus is with me. And if I never find a safe church again, if I never step foot in a church again in America, I am content that it is Jesus and I.

@axeldaxelMVM

7 ай бұрын

Well, he was trying to warn against that dichotomy and held up a particular group of people as an example of defying the dichotomy. I think? I feel so fortunate to live where I live, with such a vast range of churches to choose from. Of course, some of the churches I grew up in would attack that range of choice as a result of "the buffet mentality that afflicts our society these days".

@bobtaylor170

7 ай бұрын

I understand your feeling. For a very different reason, illness, I've gone to church on far fewer Sundays in my life than I haven't. And, of course, there is the loss of pastoral courage and congregational responsiveness to sound teaching. But pray that God would lead you to a congregation where you'd fit. Eventually, I found a wonderful one. Three denominations I would guardedly recommend are the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, the Presbyterian Church in America, and the Anglican Church in North America. ( There's so much infidelity to Truth everywhere that I can't unhesitatingly recommend any denomination. You have to check each church out, but you're aware of that. ) Each of these denominations has a Church Finder at their websites. I'm in a Presbyterian Church in America congregation, but we have a "sister church" relationship with a local ACNA church. Our elders are what I call "Calvinist lite." They do believe in the TULIP acrostic, which I have real problems with, but they don't push matters. Nearly fifteen years ago, I heard a major league, orthodox Protestant theologian lament that things had gotten so bad, there were parts of the country where believers would find it impossible to find a good church. Things certainly haven't improved, have they? If nothing else, maybe you can find other Christians to form something like a house church with. You might be able to do this on the Internet, though I confess I wouldn't have a clue how to do such a thing. A lot of grocery stores still have "bulletin boards," which you can tack things to. And these can be surprisingly effective. Find one other Christian, and you're on your way.

@daneesledge1626

7 ай бұрын

@@axeldaxelMVM on the other side of his comment, it didn’t feel like he was talking about specific people but rather addressing how many Christians do not actively attend church. I may missed his explaining that he was referring to a specific group of people and not the wider population of Christians not attending church. And that is very nice for you that you have healthy churches to choose from. I do not have that privilege but am thankful that I’ve walked long enough with Jesus that despite all the terrible things done in His name, and despite church leaders caring so deeply about power and money, I am content in being loved by The One Who Put The Stars Into Place.

@daneesledge1626

7 ай бұрын

@@bobtaylor170 I am sorry that your health has kept you from attending church as you would like. I know words in a forum like this can’t convey much. But I truly hate it for you and know it isn’t easy. Thank you for your prayers. I’m actually more peaceful than I’ve ever been and know not being in a church has a lot to do with it. I’ve realized how bad teachings on verses like “take every thought captive” had led to me wrongly thinking rumination was meditation and this season away from church has been so restorative. And honestly, I have no desire to be a part of a church because again, so many are really just corporations. There are none of the denominations near me that you’ve mentioned and maybe if we move or further down the road it will be healthy for me to try an organized church I will give it a try. I had been looking for an Anglican Church but there are none close by. For now I am thankful for my community, many of whom also love Jesus. I do not think the sermon centric thing that is called church in America is church. I just don’t. I’m not saying that there aren’t any real biblical communities called “church”, just that it’s so much to weed through. I will continue to work to build biblical community in the world around me. I appreciate you taking the time to write this comment out! You seem to love Jesus and love other people, which has made my heart smile. I’m asking The One Who Loves You Most to give you a day full of stolen moments, laughter, and moments that bring sighs of contentment.

@bobtaylor170

7 ай бұрын

@@daneesledge1626 what a sweet reply! Thank you, Dane. ( Or is it Danee, I'm not quite sure. ) Did you see the Pope's serpentine statements on Monday? He's clearly laying the foundation to change Church teaching on homosexuality, which will create a massive defection of believing Catholics. There is an "ecumenism of orthodoxy," and with the hour becoming as dark as it is, I expect surprising things to happen to denominationalism which would have been unthinkable a half century ago. Persevere!

Okay, Phil's statement that he is "intellectually wired" (@13:00ff) and then referencing Josh McDowell in the same sentence.... Wow... well, just wow!! 😖🤪😖.... that's all I can say...🤕😢 Oh my God - the level of sheer cognitive dissonance... I love and appreciate Phil...but, wow...🤕😖

@greglogan7706

7 ай бұрын

Moore's statement about the church withstanding all the BS indicating a supernatural origin is itself just more BS... One only needs to look to any number of world religions that have withstood such BS - religions which Russell Moore would definitely not acknowledge as being supernatural in origin

You spelled he/his name wrong, it's "Cry" Moore.

@concernedkermit8190

7 ай бұрын

Oh we got objective people in the comments, look out Holy Post us used to people having undying love.

@princellasmith7562

7 ай бұрын

Why are you here?

@jordanrowland1046

7 ай бұрын

Just pushing back on the "thoughtful faithful Christians" @@princellasmith7562

@concernedkermit8190

7 ай бұрын

@@princellasmith7562 The Holy Post isn't what you want it to be unfortunately

Worthwhile and positive. Moore’s a thoughtful person.

IT'S Only a Myth.

Nothing is happening that we weren't told was going to happen. One of the sayings of Jesus that people try too hard to understand is "where the carcasses are, the vultures are." He's talking about false prophets and their followers. The vultures are the false prophets. And the carcasses are the spiritually dead who follow them. He told believers not to go to the desert where the vultures are. The vultures will find the dead. Don't go looking for them. There are so many spiritually dead churches. And no church gets everything 100% right. So it can be hard to tell if you're in a typical mid church or a church that is making people twice the children of the devil as they were before they joined. It's more often what they're not talking about that's the problem. And that's harder to notice if you don't know what they are supposed to be talking about.

And here is another one...Sure Jesus Christ was beaten and died for my sins, but it is really hard to remain His follower because most of the people in my church also support Donald Trump for President!?! I mean all that suffering and dying on the cross is great and all, but seriously...a Christian majority voted for Trump!?! Its almost just too much...but through it all, I am so great because I have remained a Christian. Arent I great? I feel great! Don't you agree with me, me, me, me, me, me? I'm so bold. Look at me!

@patrickc3419

7 ай бұрын

I don’t have the time nor interest today in having a political discussion, but I can assure you that no genuine, discerning, Bible believing Christian thinks for one moment that Donald Trump is a Christian. He is a spiritually dead as Joseph Biden and Kamala Harris; all three of them need grace and need Christ. As someone who is Reformed Protestant and staunchly conservative, I will be the first to say that it is embarrassing and disturbing whenever I pass a car while driving, and see, just as an example, a bumper sticker with a scripture verse, maybe the Ichthys sign, and right next to it on the same car a bumper sticker with that “Brandon” crap.

@axeldaxelMVM

7 ай бұрын

Well, maybe you're just not really listening to what we're saying. It is very disorienting to watch most of your church family, the people you trusted the most on this earth, throw all of their values and everything they ever stood for out the window to support a politician who is literally a little-a antichrist, if not THE antichrist. How can you insult people for searching for answers and trying to find our bearings again? We're not asking for attention for attention's sake; I think many of us are asking for church leaders who are worthy of our trust. We are also mourning the people in our lives that seem to have gone off the deep end, no longer adhering to their previous convictions or demonstrating the Love of Christ, their minds addled with conspiracy theories and paranoia. We want to reach out to them, but their delusion is too strong.

@lbamusic

7 ай бұрын

..a majority who 'claimed' to he Christians, voted for dt. They were not necessarily Christians as Jesus pointed out in Matt 7:21-23. I would say those who were not deceived by him but voted for him anyway, were not Christians.

@turkeypedal

7 ай бұрын

Nothing you have said here even remotely resembles anything that was said in this video. At no point did anyone praise themselves, nor did anyone say it was difficult to remain a Christian. Your argument isn't even good. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that someone isn't allowed to discuss hardships in their life if they don't compare to what Jesus faced. In fact, Paul himself discussed some of his hardships. Jesus never put his own suffering on a pedestal. The purpose of this series is to encourage others who may be questioning their faith or commitment to the Church. The purpose of your comments seems to be to tear people down with false accusations. I could see going to church with these people. I couldn't see anyone wanting to go with you, knowing you're going to mock them for things they didn't say and try to tear them down. I would recommend that you check out James 3:10, Romans 12:18, and 1 John 4:20. And, honestly, just reread 1 Corinthians 13. You are not helping anyone with this. You're just being vindictive. I don't know why. But you should pray that God would change your heart.

@clemson1993

7 ай бұрын

@@turkeypedal you know, not all comments are meant for all people, Karen. If you know why I posted my comment, then you absolutely know its point, if you don't, than you don't. Contrary to your statements, my comment is very relevant. But thanks for sharing!