My wife grew up going to one church. She played piano at that church for forty plus years. She walked out when the preacher told the congregation they needed to vote for Trump. Try as she might she can't find a church that ticks all the boxes of what she considers a good church. I suspect it's because at our age you can't just step into a community and feel as though you belong. That and it's hard to find a church that doesn't define itself in terms of what it hates.

@ELL289

10 ай бұрын

I am so thankful for people like you and your wife, and Dr. Russell Moore. Every choice made for morality and integrity really matters. How can anyone stand under a banner of lies and immorality, and claim to believe in God?

@JR-pr8jb

10 ай бұрын

There was a time (Pre GOP Tea Party) when there were a lot of nice churches, literally zero hate. Now, I hold my nose when I walk my dog past an evangelical church.

@janohare916

10 ай бұрын

I appreciate your wife's integrity and felt a sense of loss on her behalf.

@ELL289

10 ай бұрын

@@JR-pr8jb I hear you. I was an active churchgoer for many years, sent my children to Christian schools etc. That was before the advent of the “Tea Party”. The Evangelical churches have shamed themselves. I still have friends who I know voted for that clown but keep quiet, because deep down they are ashamed, as they should be. Then there are serious intellectuals like Victor Davis Hanson, with the Hoover Institute, who openly support him. It’s beyond me.

@lwells3937

10 ай бұрын

Sounds like she left because she follows the teachings of Jesus and recognized an antichrist

I've been agnostic since Vietnam. Raised Catholic and attending Catholic schools, I have never lost interest in religious and philosophical teachings, I just don't believe. Up until Trump, I enjoyed nearly any engagement of debate and the sharing of ideas and interpretation of core doctrine. In the past five years, there seems to be no meaningful or productive engagement with the majority of Christians I meet. It's as shocking to me as the constant damage done by a draft dodging trust funder without any moral or ethical connection to the rest of humanity.

@wanderingtravellerAB99

10 ай бұрын

If you don't believe there is a god, or gods, then you are an atheist. Don't be afraid of the description, there are millions of us!

@kevatut23

10 ай бұрын

@PaulMatthewsAB99 Strictly speaking, and by definition, I am agnostic.

@missshroom5512

10 ай бұрын

Well said

@pcbacklash_3261

10 ай бұрын

@@kevatut23 No, strictly speaking, and by your own definition, you are an ATHEIST. Structurally, the very word "atheism" means "without belief in god(s):" "a" (without or against) - "theism" (belief in god(s))." What confuses a great many people is that they've been led to believe that "agnosticism" is some safe, user-friendly midway point between religious belief and atheism. But it's not. It addresses another issue altogether. Atheism refers to BELIEF. Agnosticism refers to KNOWLEDGE. Thus, a great many of us are both atheists AND agnostics. We lack belief in god(s), but we also acknowledge it's impossible to know with 100% certainty. And that's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

@geobus3307

10 ай бұрын

As a fellow Nam Vet (173rd Airborne Brigade), I appreciate the impact that the experience can have on your belief system and world view. I also understand the disillusionment that can result when contemplating the ellevation of unworthy people like DJT to the highest leadership positions in our society. He will always be "B. S. Trump" to to me, as in "Bone Spur Trump". He shamelssly hid behind a podiatrist's phony note purchased by his daddy. He did not have to agree with the war, only to acknowledge that his fellow, less advantaged citizen soldiers deserved the best possible leadership. And who could have saved more lives than the Donald, who doubtlessly, even then knew more about warfare than anyone else in the world. . . .

I love the way he uses the Shire and Morder to talk about conservative Christianity! I am a Tolkien nerd. I don't have Jesus confused with the evangelical Christian church. The keep hurting people and then those people throw Jesus out with the dirty bath water of those churches. We are supposed to have separation of religion and state. Any church whose pastor influences how the congregation should vote should lose their tax exempt status!

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely

@ridethecurve55

10 ай бұрын

But, very unfortunately, the State seems to be getting less and less interested in enforcing this foundational precept of our US Constitution. The Religious Right has taken notice of this inaction and has become more than willing to take assertive actions to stamp out this part of the Constitution with all its political force.

@BarryHayes-lt3pj

10 ай бұрын

I agree. but for some fucking reason the IRS is scared shitless to enforce the exempt status of a lot of these churches that are flaunting their political connections because they know the IRS will do nothing! The IRS may as well delete these regs as they mean NOTHING!!!

@michaezell4607

10 ай бұрын

@@ridethecurve55 What part of "congress shall make no law establishing a national religion nor a law prohibiting the free excercise thereof do you NOT understand? Conservative politicians ARE SLAVES to the evangelical bible thumpers and NRA gun lobby in exchange for election time votes. They've alienated EVERY portion of the american electorate but these two remaining portions and until that changes they'll continue to lose eloections.

@michaezell4607

10 ай бұрын

The Jesus character is a Roman invention and never existed as an actual human being. The mythology was invented as a last ditch effort to prevent the collapse of the Roman empire and in that regard it failed miserably.

Well, I’m glad you’ve caught up to what the rest of us have known for a while - it was never about morality, American Christianity is about control. Always has been.

@treehugger79

10 ай бұрын

This exactly. Well said.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely

@lwells3937

10 ай бұрын

Real Christianity may look a whole lot like socialism

@Iknowknow112

10 ай бұрын

Since the Pilgrims!😊0

My head hurts, my feet stink and I've lost my love for Jesus. Most of the Christians I meet today seem to be a soured version of a good person.

@elainedaprano9130

10 ай бұрын

Test: If they don't know the Beatitudes, they're not Christians.

@elainedaprano9130

10 ай бұрын

P.S. ...aka The Sermon on the Mount

@loyddussaultsr4181

10 ай бұрын

Lose your religion and save humanity. Stay away from all religions

@dfuher968

10 ай бұрын

I call them faux Christians. Coz their actions and goals and proclamations are completely opposite to the teachings of Christ, even tho they cherrypick and twist and contort half Bible quotes to support their hatred and hypocrisy. I find them intolerant, disrespectful and, yes, often hateful. Such ppl have not only made me an atheist, that wants nothing to do with religion of any kind (I dont need a religion to be an honest, compassionate person), I have come to find organised religion utterly despicable. And them constantly trying to legislate their extremist zealotry to force every1 else to live by their awful "religious" beliefs only reinforces that. Its become so bad, that even when a person in good faith offers their prayers and talk about, how God will protect me or whatever, I recoil. I dont want ppl pushing their religion on me. Keep it to urself, fine, believe whatever u want. But the moment, they start talking about it in other connections, Im walking away.

@shawnmack1095

10 ай бұрын

Or possibly they were never good ppl and the mask came off

When a person feels the need to tell me they are “Christian,” I feel the need to look for the nearest exit. Be a good person and do good without bragging about it, expect nothing in return and don’t be a doormat.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Touché

@claesvanoldenphatt9972

10 ай бұрын

In the context of American society, to identify as a Christian, unless otherwise qualified, is an appeal to be trusted as a member of the white majority, counted a Republican and subscriber to a whole raft of presuppositions and alignments best described as illiberal. In certain regions people are expected to identify christian (i.e., Evangelical) as shibboleth for entrée into power and wealth. Tradesmen of no particular persuasion often put those ΙΧΘΥΟΣ fish symbols on their work trucks and business listings to garner more business.

@Raineygoodyears

10 ай бұрын

@suzannederusha1370-Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not cheat others, honor your father and mother.’ ”…

@suzannederusha1370

10 ай бұрын

@@Raineygoodyears If no one is good then we are all bad?

@Raineygoodyears

10 ай бұрын

@@suzannederusha1370 We have all fallen short that is why Jesus came to pay the price for our sins he took upon himself. It is GOD's gift because we cannot ever be good enough, but through Christ we can be made clean and reconciled to our Heavenly Father..

I genuinely get scared when people ask me about Jesus these days. So many seem a hair trigger from violence if I say something they dont like.

If the people who most believe in the mission of your church, are leaving your church. Then you know you’ve lost all moral authority.

Many years ago my priest told me "never confuse your faith with religion. Religion is something created by men who never met Jesus. Faith is a gift from God."

@oldreprobate2748

10 ай бұрын

Yes there are those few in the priesthood. Yet for me I find it impossible to have faith in anything that is based solely on faith, and that is all the God mysticism is. A god or gods have always from the beings been a tool to subjugate others by the authoritarian narcissist throughout history despite it's unprovability. At best a god figure is science fiction.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Touché

@mikekennedy5470

10 ай бұрын

Faith my friend is an word used to believe something without fact based reasoning.. if it's real and it can be proven then Faith is not needed .

As a secular Jew, I found this discussion fascinating, useful and heartbreaking.

@nancyiaj

10 ай бұрын

As a blk American (raised Christian)-same.

Outstanding podcast, thank you.

My family used to enjoy church, then almost overnight Newt's Tea Party moved in and turned it into a right-wing political thing. A lot of folks (including us) drifted away and never went back. This was well before Trump.

@Frenetic321

10 ай бұрын

Newt Gingrich was definitely the start of cruelty and breaking norms.

The pro-democracy movement absolutely needs allies like this. A broad church, if you’ll pardon the pun. As more and more faithful evangelicals speak up to decry the authoritarianism of Donald Trump, it weakens the illusion of his “Christian” legitimacy.

@user-pd5qz2vt2c

10 ай бұрын

Wishful thinking. Moore has always decried Trump and was against him being elected in 2016 and has loudly vocalized his concerns about the marriage of evangelical Christianity and Trump. Can you name any prominent Christian "leaders" or organizations that have spoken out recently against Trump as an exemplar of Christian ethics? This branch of faith has sold out almost completely in the pursuit of political power and the desire to legislate their particular morals upon the nation as a whole. And unfortunately, the net result of this movement is a melding with secularism and the discrediting of the teachings of Jesus.

@Darbimac

10 ай бұрын

Americans United for Separation of Church and State was headed up by a reverend (Barry Lynn) last I checked. It is good for all of us, not just nonbelievers like me, for church and state to be separate. Do these believers know how unlikely it is that their exact beliefs would be championed in a theocracy? There are thousands of demonimations of Christianity.

@jimmaughan1898

10 ай бұрын

Fun fact: The man who headed the first Social Democratic government in North America, considered the father of the Canadian universal health care system, voted the "Most Admired Canadian", and the grandfather of Kieffer Sutherland was the Reverend Tommy Douglas, a Baptist minister.

@user-pd5qz2vt2c

10 ай бұрын

@@jimmaughan1898 Does the Baptist church still support such social programs?

@jimmaughan1898

10 ай бұрын

@@user-pd5qz2vt2c There's eleventy billion flavours of Baptist churches who all get their theology from the same inerrant book. That's how you know they're all talking nonsense.

Anyone who's familiar with Jewish history can tell you that what's going on in Evangelical Christianity is nothing new. Masses of people claiming Jesus' mantle have acted in direct opposition to his teaching almost since the earliest days of the Church - certainly since it became the state religion of the Roman Empire.

@Raineygoodyears

10 ай бұрын

@ljspivak9447- Jesus only recognizes 1 Church. the Church in Philadelphia “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars-I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

@ljspivak9447

10 ай бұрын

@@Raineygoodyears thanks for proving my point.

@nancyiaj

10 ай бұрын

@@ljspivak9447that was too perfect Lmaoooo 🫡💯

Thank you so much for making me realize there are still good, religious folks in the states. I've been appalled by what I've seen in political christianity, and islam.

Losing our religion? Really? It's got a stranglehood on our federal government. Our government is so much more religious than at any point in history. The Founders weren't fanatics. They hated religious fansticism. Tocqueville visited a country the Founders wouldn't have recognized. "Religious insanity is common in America," he said. But the government wasn't fanatical. You be hard pressed to find a trinitarian anywhere in government 230 years ago. Now they're everywhere.

@stalker7892

10 ай бұрын

You'd be hard pressed to find. That in the New Testament. I agree with you about government. But on the other hand fanaticism as a word can be rather subjective .

@Darbimac

10 ай бұрын

You're right, but he does say the title is a pun, in the sense R.E.M. used it (perhaps literally, or perhaps the southern colloquialism for losing your temper). He also points out something I found incredibly insightful. Evangelical Christiany is being *secularized*, but not by atheists like me (ooga booga), but from the far right. It has become about the worship of a non-religious figure who barely even pretends piety anymore (Two Corinthians, anyone) and makes it so "turn the other cheek" is not welcome in a church that ostensibly worships Jesus.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Excellent point.

@nancychandler3673

10 ай бұрын

Our Founding Father's that wrote the Constitution were the Separatists, which I am descended from. You're correct. To think our Conservative majority SCOTUS doesn't know how to interpret the Constitution...is beyond the pale.

@Raineygoodyears

10 ай бұрын

@jonmeador8637- When was the last time in history Governments recognized Homosexual Marriage? Abortion? Paul Harvey in 1965 said the future was loosing our faith. The Empire building once had 3 lit Crosses on it for Easter, then when Obama came into office the Empire building had a lit up Demon Goddess named "Kali" who sacrificed babies at the Altar of Baal.

I went from being raised Southern Baptist (never fitting in because I'm gay and inquisitive), to Lutheran in college, to atheist for most of my life. But a few years ago I became a Buddhist, because covid almost killed me, and I needed something to believe in. Since I took refuge in the Buddha I am happier and healthier than ever. He said my salvation is up to me alone, and gave me several good tools to help me get there. I bow to Buddha to show honor and respect for his teachings, not in worship. I would not have a relationship with The Creator if it wasn't for Buddha.

@theaxe6198

10 ай бұрын

Totally get you

@reefnreefer

10 ай бұрын

Clap-trap

I'll be buying the book. Such an intelligent conversation and practical thought suggestions as to how we get through this. I may actually go full nerd and do a book club with this book. 😅Jesus going liberal...gives me a multitude of ideas right there. Really good, thank you both 👏.

A friend told me evangelicals are constantly quoting the Old Testament because they think Jesus was "too weak " for their purposes...as the author says. And, as he said, the twitter evangelicals Ive encountered have never even read the Beatitudes!

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Excellent point

@janohare916

10 ай бұрын

Is that a tie-in to the "muscular Jesus" I've recently heard about? I am a Christian who believes in God's kindness, compassion, forgiveness and love, and no longer attends church.

I think basic Christian tenets like: humility, faith, charity, courage, self-government, virtue, industry, and wisdom are good things. But when Christianity is used for a power grab, or a cultural bludgeon? It’s becoming almost near intolerable.

@pcbacklash_3261

10 ай бұрын

Christianity also insists that, unless you believe in an invisible deity and his son/alter ego/human avatar, you're doomed -- from BIRTH -- to an eternity of torment in Hell. No thanks.

@steve-real

10 ай бұрын

@@pcbacklash_3261 There are many sects to Christianity. I think the sect that came up with the Scientific Method and built Universities like Harvard and Yale are ok in my book. These sects are not exactly the ones pushing the doom and gloom narrative brother.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely

@janohare916

10 ай бұрын

I'm desperately tired of people who profess love of God while pursuing power at all costs.

Enjoyed your conversation... but I really laughed when you mentioned that there might be misogyny problem in the church. Ya think? Do you realize that 30 percent of Americans identify as no particular religion/agnostic/atheist and that number is closer to 45 percent under 30? Hitch was right. It takes religion to make a good person do horrible things...

@grahamstrouse1165

10 ай бұрын

Nah. It’s just another excuse.

@joannebattersby8365

10 ай бұрын

Every once I awhile I listen t Sir Richard Dawkins read" Love Letters from Christians'". Illuminating. I believe in Dogs',not Gods'.

@sdr24

10 ай бұрын

Hitch was a bigot with almost as shallow a view of human history as the bigots Russel Moore was talking about. We let atheists actually run governments in China, Russia, Burma and other places. And in one lousy century, they managed to kill more human beings than all the religious wars in human history COMBINED.

@mikekennedy5470

10 ай бұрын

If only he could be here for this train wreck 😭

@darknightbegins85

9 ай бұрын

The Old Testament literally says women are worth half as much and are twice as dirty. Sexism is a foundational part of Christianity

Very interesting discussion. I was raised Catholic and have struggled all my adult life with the Catholic Church. I haven’t lost faith in God, just the church. The Catholic church is verging on schism. When Pope Francis dies, depending on who the cardinals elect as new Pope.

God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Touché 😂😂😂

There was a reason for separation of church and state

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely!!!

Who on Earth wants to read a biography of Mark Meadows?!?

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

The story about scoffing at the sermon on the mount reminds me of how the person who recommended Atlas Shrugged to me completely missed that the book was anti-Christianity.

This explained a lot, thanks!!

Sadly, they are making people turn away from Christ. We desperately need to know which churches remain committed to Christ and people.."normal" not political scammers.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely

@nancychandler3673

10 ай бұрын

The Tea Party are Religious Zealots. Just look at how many there are. The Religious Zealots or as I refer to them as "Christian Nationalists" are over 50% of the Republicans in the Judiciary and Legislative branches at this time.

@mikekennedy5470

10 ай бұрын

Let's just keep church in church and out of government.

I can relate as a person who loves the word and believes Christ died for our sins. Agree that this Trumpism is a fallen away from the faith in Christ.

@TruthDefined4life

10 ай бұрын

Amen!

my 42 year old daughter used to tell me her hgh school 'christians' were the meanest people she knew

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Wow

Charlie Sykes, I don't think there is an interview you've done that has meant more to me personally. Dr. Moore, you could have been describing me in so many of your quotes. My background is born and raised in fundamentalist baptist churches, daughter of vocational ministers, taught in private, tiny A.C.E. schools, undergrad degree from private, christian university, passionate about doctrine and faith despite the abuse that came from the teachings of Institutes for Basic Youth Conflict. Now in my 50's and having a brutal time going to church. From the fearmongering that arose out of 9/11 to evangelical churches embracing violence, patriarchy, conspiracy theories, trumpism and more... It has become a daily ritual to go back and work through the ways all of this is NOT of Jesus. The way of the Cross that is taught in Philippians 2 and the Fruit of the Spirit from Galatians 5; the preeminence of love, in I Corinthians 13; and so many other passages... When I see revered spiritual voices writing books about how "woke-ism" is killing christianity, it makes me scream, because it is so contrary to who Jesus was and the lives He called us to.

@battlejitney2197

9 ай бұрын

❤

Cradle Catholic, still Catholic struggling....a lot of what he talks about regarding evangelicals also applies to a large swath of Catholics.

@davidwilkins5932

10 ай бұрын

Being someone who spent their formative years in the Southern Baptist Church, I’ve been most struck by the rise of what I describe as “highly conservative Catholics”, or “fundamentalist Catholics”. It’s like a really bad mixture of traditional fundamentalist. I’m 66, and when I was raised, the Catholic Church was broadly considered “liberal”, at least compared theologically to the SBC. But now there’s this new “beast” which is unfortunately very powerful and well connected. The best examples are the current SCOTUS picks, and the former Vice President. It’s like the worst of Evangelicalism teamed with the machinery of real institutional power. This didn’t seem to exist when I was growing up, and it’s troubling. From inside the SBC there wasn’t so much as a hiccup when Roe v Wade happened. It was quite literally and meticulously stoked into a wedge political creation. And it seemed to be a kind of “political compensation” for White Evangelicals having pretty much lost on racial issues going into the 70’s. But my…that doesn’t seem to have lasted either. We’re in one big regression.

@everock9436

10 ай бұрын

@@davidwilkins5932 yep

Excellent summation of the current religiopolitical state of our country.

I like crime bosses who don't get caught.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

Feed the poor, welcome the stranger, love thy neighbor, give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars . These are all teachings of Jesus Christ, but none of our "Christian " politicians are even familiar with these teachings. I guess that is why the path to heaven is very narrow. A lot of people will be very surprised when that day comes.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Without a doubt

Recently, after the rain deluge at The Burning Man Festival in the Nevada desert, l wondered how a group of 70 thousand strangers could weather the discomfort of entrapment & ugliness, with no sanitary facilities, etc, forced to stay in place- they weren't allowed to leave. I wondered how they managed themselves without major breakdown. After stumbling onto a documentary of a Burning Man normal year gathering, l watched it grinning till the very end and immediately wiped tears away. I think the human heart is larger than religion and it wants to be together with other hearts. Started in San Francisco till it became so big it was moved to the desert, it reminded me of 60s. Amazing how San Francisco became a flowering seed bed of human creativity. God's gift. I'm a practicing Catholic and love what l saw in those people..

it's thou shalt NOT bear false witness against thy neighbor. the christofascists riding the road to perdition are sooo committed to doing just the opposite and in the name of god, too.

great conversation. Thanks Charlie

It's not coming back. Dont hold your breath.

As an atheist, I do not consider Christianity in any of its forms a real answer to any public problem. Nonetheless, I respect Dr. Moore for defending his principles. Whether rand and file evangelicals can get their heads straight remains to be seen.

Excellent interview! Thanks for all you do. ✌️✌️🌟🌟

Great interview! I just ordered the book on Amazon!

For more context in understanding modern American evangelism, the book One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America, by Kevin Kruse (2015), is a must-read. Back in the 1930s, the owners of big business formed an alliance with conservative Christian leaders against the New Deal: conservative churches would push the values of capitalism to their congregations, in return for financial support from corporations. It's no mystery why the church lost it's moral underpinnings. It's the price they pay for corporate support. It's disappointing that neither Sykes nor Moore seem to be aware of this.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info

@michaelkraft218

10 ай бұрын

It was desegregation, and not abortion, that formed the Religious Right. Kevin Kruse is so right.

@michaelkraft218

10 ай бұрын

When you elect a shady Mafioso for President, it is bad news for religion and politics.

I'll never see evangelicals the same. Turns out that hate was what they really worship.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Touché

A very interesting discussion. So nice to hear a evangelical with such insights into his religion. I’m a fallen by the roadside Catholic, left the church when I was sixteen. I’m in my seventies now and do not believe there is a god. I honestly think that the only good thing about organized religion is ‘community’. Thank you for having this guest on. He seems like a very honest, godly man.

Praise the Lord. Charley with Russell Moore. I needed this. So does the rest of the country.

@theaxe6198

10 ай бұрын

I first read this as praise the lord and pass the ammunition

@user-pd5qz2vt2c

10 ай бұрын

@@theaxe6198 that'll work.

My religious exposure has been a circuitous journey involving three religions of different dogmas and numerous denominations. Got confusing over time as simple questions never received a simple response. I've heard it said that there can " be no religion that is higher than TRUTH, because the TRUTH just IS. No religion or person has a right to bend or twist the truth to conveniently suit their own agenda(s), but they do it anyway. Thus my concept of God has evolved to ' the source of all creation' whatever that is as the concept of no beginning, no end takes on a clearer meaning.

I’m religious. I believe in Jesus. I attend an organized religious service every week. And I’m a never-Trumper. I strenuously argued against him in 2016 and ever since. But then I look at a lot of the comments here and see a lot of “tax churches!” “go atheism!” and “yay Hitchens!” And I wonder if we aren’t just proving the MAGA crowd’s point - that it’s impossible to be religious and vote Democrat. All my adult life I’ve rejected that idea and often voted Democrat AND stayed religiously committed. In spite of friends, neighbors and family constantly pestering me that being a Democrat is the path to godless atheism. But I look at the comments and the most vocal here are all pushing atheism or a version of it. Do you all really think there’s no way to separate Trump from Christianity? I’m almost as depressed by you guys’ reaction as I am by the moral failure of my own faith community. Almost, but not quite…

@TruthDefined4life

10 ай бұрын

Your question is a very good one, so I hope this response helps. I NEVER vote based on my spiritual beliefs. Why? Because government isn't spiritual. Politicians prey on that, so a lot of people can't separate the two. Government is social. Therefore, I vote for people who social values best align with my values. If it's a Democrat, that's how I vote. If it's a Republican, that's how I vote. That focus helps me stay sane.

Very similar preaching was use by both some of the extreme Catholic and Protestant clergy during the Northern Ireland 'Troubles'.

Remembering the Pharisees, Sadducees and Zealots during the time of Jesus, is it fair to say history has repeated itself today in America?

Haven’t you guys read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism? Weber predicts the recent Evangelical trajectory.

I was born and raised a Catholic, sexually abused 1st by a neighbour then by a Catholic priest, ended up an alcoholic at 20 went to AA, stayed sober for years and years always trying to do the right thing and believe in a god. Then I relapsed and struggled for a few years, getting sober but not able to stay sober. Then I had a stroke, catastrophic, died but obviously survived. I have no memory of the stroke 3 weeks before and about 6-8 weeks after. Something happened during that time, intrinsically, in my bones. I am sober now 19 months and have left all trying to believe in a god or creator or higher power. I have gone back to reading Sartre and Camus and existential philosophy. This makes more sense to me. I live my life according to my own beliefs, how I want to treat myself extends to how I treat others. The church, religions, are just made up of people, men's ideas so they are flawed.

This time period is known as the End Times, the end of an old cycle and the beginning of new. We have reached the point where we will take religion to the next level, and instead of it being divisive, we will turn around and it will be unifying.

How can one have this conversation and completely ignore the influence of Mike Flynn.?

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely go figure

Is it just me or does anyone else see the resemblence between Trump and Jim Baker? I don't mean physically. I'm talking about the grifting and the "preaching" in the rallies.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely

Are you wondering why people are becoming more and more disillusioned about religion?

I think the problem is that there are way fewer ministers in this country with any guts than when I was a kid. We used to look to the pastor for leadership and guidance. Now. The ministers are like the conservative radio hosts. They stick there fingers in the wind, do market research, take the temperatures of their audiences, and then pander to them. Radio/conservative talk show guys, etc, are in business. And so are the pastors.

I find the lack of kindness, the lack of introspection, the need to punch down & the choice to not speak truth to power are the true test of connectedness to Christ.

When trump sez "As president I could have declassified it now, I can't " he is admitting ti his lies about a stolen election

The human species will never reach its full potential until religion, with all of its magical thinking and self-imposed ignorance, is relegated to the fringes of society where it belongs.

@BenSmith-mg5jv

10 ай бұрын

Hell TO THE FCKN YES!! HUMANS WORSHIPING ANYTHING, BY DEFAULT, INCLUDES IRRATIONALITY. Humans? HAVE THEY MET US?? ITS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT Should BE SUGGESTED TO DO IF ANY GROUP OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF HUMANS MUCH LESS 1 SINGULAR HUMAN.

@stalker7892

10 ай бұрын

And what would that "full potential" be?

@jh-mp8so

10 ай бұрын

Amen!

@maggio174

10 ай бұрын

@@stalker7892the unknown can be scary.

@BenSmith-mg5jv

10 ай бұрын

@@stalker7892 THE PERFECT UNION OUR FOUNDERS SAID WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE STRIVING FOR!! WHAT COUNTRY DO CHRISTIANS THINK THEY'RE IN? WHAT COUNTRY DO WHITE STR8 MEN THINK THEY'RE IN?? ANYONE'S RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT TO WHAT LAW'S GOVT SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T PASS!! WHERE DO U THINK U ARE... A CHRISTIAN VERSION OF IRAN IS NOT THIS COUNTRY.. THEY'RE IN THE WRONG PLACE AND HAVE BEEN SINCE THEY WERE BORN IF ANY OF WHAT THE 🐷 CURRENT GOP WOULD AT MINIMUM BE SILENTLY COMPLICIT AND OK WITH HAPPENING AND AT WORST ABD GROWING MAJORITY BE OUTWARDLY SUPPORTING AND ESPOUSING A OPPOSITE LAND VERSION OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY'S FOUNDING DOCUMENTS SAY THIS COUNTRY SHALL BE. THEOCRATIC DICTATORSHIPS EXIST. GO FIND A CHRISTIAN ONE ABD FCK OFF!

We are just loosing our hypocrisy

As a child, was required to attend the church on the corner, which happened to be a Mennonite congregation. By 12, I was a consecrated member. I lost my religion when I was about 15 as I had just learned about critical thinking, which I thought of as thinking for myself or 'free-thinking' as it called in those morality play movies. In the fullness of my years, I realized I was subjected to grooming, which eventually through an amazing set of circumstances, I found myself enlisting in the Army (1967). Due to my life experience, I'm with Dawkins, et. al. There is no place for [Insert here], regardless of what your tradition says.

Hello, I am an Atheist and I saw this coming. My parents grew up in the American South and were subjected to racism. Plenty of southerners definitely were not following Jesus but said they were. The Klan still considers itself a Christian organization. The growing diversity of this nation has some people feel like they are losing their place. Jesus hasn’t come back to remind them to be kind, sweet, honest, fair, and look after the less fortunate. Now, many of them consider themselves less fortunate, but aren’t educated enough to realize they are voting against their own best interests. They don’t understand how the economy works. I could go on and on and so could you. There is more to it than that, but this is the comments section so I will end my comments there.

"But the judgment of God is upon the church as never before. If today's church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust." - Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 1963 The conservative church has always tried to serve two masters, trying to follow Jesus while trying to obey and preserve the rules of the culture and status quo at the same time, and that has always poisoned their practice. Conservatism will always be anti Christ because at its heart it is anti-death, and without death there can be no rebirth. Christ always has and always will be radical and the Worldly Wisemen of conservatism who try to say "look, here we have arrived, now let's build walls and settle in place here" will always end up seeking to put His message to death.

This interview proves, at least to me, both the importance and the banality of a belief system. Every single religion has umpteen interpretations. They can't all possibly be true. At best only one can be right. More likely they are all false, simply because they are all man made. However, no one can discount the importance of placebo.

Seems like he’s like there’s some missing audio in between 9:14 and 9:32.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Perhaps copyright reasons?

@bernierose8423

10 ай бұрын

@@davidmolina7543 Could be! It didn’t seem like any critical info was missed.

Fracturing vs. rapturing!

Russell Moore is just kindler gentler evangelicalism. He still believes in all the core nonsense. Magic books and damnation and an invisible friend that gives you insights on what other people should do in the bedroom or who they should love. Count me out. He gave people a toolkit to perceive a mystical battle between good and evil and was aghast when they used it in a way he didn’t intend. Shocking.

I'm surprised that this conversation included no discussion of the unique history and trajectory of Southern evangelicalism, as distinct from the evangelicalism that had its origins in Europe and came to this country along with the Pilgrims, Puritans, and Quakers. Southern evangelicalism took shape after the Civil War and was a political reaction to it. The sharp right turn that these evangelicals took at that time supported the worst of Southern apartheid, and ultimately embedded itself in right-wing politics in the form of the John Birch Society, where it percolated until Ronald Reagan brought it home by centering Billy Graham in his political messaging. Dr. Moore and Charlie can worry the question of how the evangelical movement lost its integrity until the cows come home; but unless they are willing to look at the not-so-holy foundation story of this movement in the South, all they will be doing is wasting their own time--and ours, Charlie.

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Interesting point

Great podcast. First time this liberal, atheist (deist?) has tuned into an evangelical pastor. Too bad "culture wars" doesn't mean who has better aesthetics.

Doesn't what is have to die before it can be born again?

Dismisses anyone who disagrees with him as a "troll" or a "huckster". These guys refuse to consider that anyone disagrees with them in good faith.

Religion is a personal thing and forcing it down people's throats is not good.

It’s upsetting and perpetuates ignorance to use the Uncle Ronnie example of the altar call where uncle Ronnie has a drinking problem but there is “forgiveness.” Alcoholism is not a sin or a moral failing. It is a psychological and physiological addiction that does not arise from sin, nor can it be resolved through forgiveness. It is this uneducated and unevolved practice of Christianity that has led to a mass exodus from the church and the religion / its dogma. MAN’s interpretation and application of scripture is to identify and classify “sin,” which mostly focuses on outward actions and behavior when at the heart of biblical text and understanding of God is anything that separates us from the love of Christ Jesus. Thus, The GREATEST “sins” are happening in people’s runaway minds - namely fear, worry, jealousy, hatred, anything that prevents us from living in the present moment, which is the ONLY place love (God as defined by the Christian church) resides. I wish that prominent Christian’s like this guest would get educated and stop perpetuating the rampant judgment of others and their “sins” that the Christian church has so strongly embraced. So sick of it. It’s the reason I left the church when my children were young. I refused to subject them to any teaching that they had to be and do X, y, and z to be loved and accepted by god or experience the love and peace of living in the present moment.

@davidw6936

10 ай бұрын

Good point about alcoholism. I was thinking how reasonable this discussion was, until that topic came up. Using someone's alcoholism as an entry point to bring them to religion is cynically manipulative. It prey's on a person's weakness, rather than offering real help.

In the book of Jude which is a book that is specifically for the believers and church which is living in the last hours and days just before the coming day of the Lord, in a time of spiritual deception and growing deepening darkness, not only over the face of all the earth, but sadly and tragically within many corrupt and heretical churches as well. In Jude the first thing that he mentions as being God's will for the believers living in those end times, is to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Now what is important is to recognize the vigorous and strenuous efforts and engagement that will be necessary to fulfill that obligation. This is NOT in any way, shape or form an excuse for passive acceptance, presumptuous and smug complacency within the mainstream churches as to their holding fast to the apostolic teaching of the gospel truth and faith of Christ. Many of the heretics will reject these reproof's as being divisive or troubling, stealing away the peace of mind and attacking or destabilizing the faith of God's people. Of course this is the tactic that those people who abuse the authority of leaders and elders of the church, will use to evade being held accountable and responsible for their sinful abuses of their power, position, and authority. So to earnestly contend for the faith means to actively confront these tricks and traps that Satan will use these tactics to protect these bad teachers, pastors and prophets. God is not a respecter of persons, but he is a respecter of the spiritual and even material health and well being of his people, and the integrity and truth of the inspired Word of God. People who are in positions of high authority and ministry are still servants and not masters, there is only one Master and teacher who is Christ himself, our calling is not to follow men but to follow the Lord and those apostles set forth as an example that walk in his ways. God loves his holy people and children, he is not going to turn a blind eye when his people are being hurt or misled by their leaders, now I understand that the devil will maliciously slander the innocent but no person who is in a position of authority has an impunity to sin against God and God's people to escape accountability or avoid a humiliating embarrassing exposure of their sinful activity. We need to have in proper balance God's grace mercy, patience and forgiveness but also to be sound in the faith and not use God's grace as the license to sin and at the expense of corrupting and compromising the way of truth and the way of Christ. Perhaps it may bring some comfort to know that none of these problems are new, God has given his people wisdom to be able to discern between good and evil, and to make sound and righteous judgments, on every serious and difficult problem and issue that needs to be solved and answered. This is why Paul says that if we are to be placed in the court and council of God to judge angels, how much more should we be competent to judge righteous judgment on the more earthly matters as well. Rather than be excessively squeamish and confusing being cowardly and evasive with respect to difficult issues as being a form of meekness and humility, when it is nothing of the kind.

Oh my dog! Thank you! I’m tired of the ultra right using songs (for what effect?) whose lyrics mean the opposite of their authoritarian philosophy. Hilariously ironic, actually. 😂

Ahh, yes..That was the Senator from Ohio that said "Women should stay with their abusive husbands". Vance is his name, endorsed by the Evangelical Tea Party.

Carlos will be walking out of the hoosegow in 2043 if he doesn’t cooperate.

Pastors say? What about what Christ says? ‘Be angry and sin not’.

Religion is no way to model reality.

Too long as Christian have been following man and not following Jesus. We have a responsibility as Children of God to take time and have a personal relationship with Jesus. Going to church , one that teaches the word of God is a part of our Christian life. Paul said in the scripture follow me as I follow Christ. If we don’t read and study the word of God and ask the holy Sprit help us coming in the understanding of who the lord is. Many will be led away by false teacher. The word of God is true, Jesus Christ is Lord, nothing changes that .

i do not think people are signing up for hypocracy

Like the neutral society that crucified Christ?

I have faith, but not in any organized religion because they reek of gaining power and enrichment for those in power of those religions in far too many of them and the hypocrisy is overwhelming and they don’t seem to follow the teachings of Jesus in most cases

@davidmolina7543

10 ай бұрын

Excellent point

I think that in America today, we are seeing a kind of contemporary right-wing antinomianism blended with predestination…where the “selected” or “anointed” believe they have their own personal relationship with God that gives them license or carte blanche to do and say whatever they want. This is nothing new. What I would call the “personality of Christ” takes a back seat and need not be followed any more than dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament or for that matter…the Ten Commandments.

@jessieadair

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for introducing me to a word I hadn't come across until now. Britannica: *Antinomianism* (Greek anti, “against”; nomos, “law”), doctrine according to which Christians are freed by grace from the necessity of obeying the Mosaic Law. The antinomians rejected the very notion of obedience as legalistic; to them the good life flowed from the inner working of the Holy Spirit.

@josephhuether1184

10 ай бұрын

@@jessieadair You’re welcome! Full disclosure, I only heard this term for the first time about 3 weeks ago while watching a late 1980s interview about religion with Margaret Atwood, done by Bill Moyers. I have no background in philosophy, theology or divinity studies but I was surprised to have not stumbled upon it before…even during my K-12 Catholic parochial school education. The term “personality of Christ” is my own and refers to what I believe people are referring to when they bring up the “Sermon on the Mount”.

@jessieadair

10 ай бұрын

@@josephhuether1184 Thanks, again, Joseph! I was raised by nuns in a Catholic orphanage and had not ever heard the word or come across it in written form before, either. As a logophile, I appreciate the precision of language afforded to those with an extensive vocabulary so it is my habit to look up new ones as I encounter them.

Christianity also has to compete with other religions. To be honest I’ve never found a really what I would call spiritual or holy person with my experience of Christian leadership. Yes good kind people compassionate people. But I have found non religious people like that just ordinary people. I have found real spiritual holy people in other religion especially native Americans and Buddhism.

Why can’t we make Trump take the stand? Ty

Losing My Religion ... I thought this was R.E.M. - Sorry !

Thank you for vindicating me

joe rogan does not preach religeon

Not as simple as you are making it out to be.

When a religion becomes politically powerful it becomes spiritually poor.

Are we losing our religion or are we are sick with organized religion. The thing he is talking about is disgusting.

Satan is the god of deceit

Well, that’s 44 minutes of my life I can never get back. Religion is obsolete. I always have pity for people who tell me they’re Xtian. I almost immediately file them away in my head as “moron.” Ugh.

@jessieadair

10 ай бұрын

Due to a devastating family tragedy, I was raised and indoctrinated from the tender age of 2 (along with 3 older siblings) by nuns in a Catholic orphanage. Just as any child must, I absorbed their teachings and accepted them as truth for a time. However, as a young student who enjoyed reading about all kinds of subjects, I soon came to understand the origins of these religious teachings, and all religious teachings, as stories based on ignorance and the superstitions they engender, and whose primary purpose was one of control and enrichment by and of the few over the masses, and I readily rejected them in full and felt my inner life grow immeasurably richer and more complex and ultimately fuller and more satisfying. I've let my siblings know I no longer believe and why, and talked about the many gods of antiquity that they themselves think are untrue and silly and how their god is just one more in the same vein. They listened respectfully and with mild curiosity at first and yet soon appeared uncomfortable/uninterested in engaging in the topic and I didn't and would never force the issue. Over time I have seen how extremely minor the role religion plays in their lives now compared to when they were younger and have concluded that their connection to religion is tenuous and that they're comfortable leaving it there and not a step beyond; their choice and I respect and accept it just as they respect and accept mine. I tell you this to push back on your blanket description of Xtians as "morons". My siblings are not morons, but loving, kind, creative and thoughtful people who have never done or wished harm on anyone; not only would they never harm anyone, they are loving and affectionate and go out of their way to help others. In short, they make the world a better place because of how they behave and not because of what they believe or don't believe. Taking the disrespectful stance that all religious people -- or any other category of people, for that matter -- are "morons" is reflective of a small closed mind. You clearly believe yourself to be better and smarter than _Xtians_ and have no awareness that your words say more about you then it does about them and that what they reveal about you is not something to feel proud of.

Vagueness 😴

This is why Catholic is the WAY to go!,,Because ,it's a personal relationship with GOD , not just His Son! His Son is all Humans , We only discuss God AND JESUS with family!!keeps the PEACE amongst other Religions + !❤ THANK YOU !

The apostles warned of this

@pcbacklash_3261

10 ай бұрын

The apostles also reportedly believed the end times were here -- two thousand years ago. I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into what they said or didn't say.

Charlie finally takes leave of his TDS! OMG!

@pcbacklash_3261

10 ай бұрын

TDS. That's hilarious, coming from a brainless cult obsessed with Hillary's e-mails and Hunter Biden's laptop. The kings of projection!

If you believe in a ghost that lives in the sky, I have to question your intelligence.

@simonmitchell658

10 ай бұрын

So would I, if that was what most Christians believed in!

@pcbacklash_3261

10 ай бұрын

It's not a question of intelligence. Some of the most intelligent people who ever lived (i.e., Isaac Newton) believed in a god. It's a question of indoctrination and the self-deception that is built into that indoctrination. It's an almost perfect mental prison, which most people are never even inclined to escape.