I really appreciated this interview.

A good interview with Kristin Du Mez. My own reason for being a Christian is similar - I was elected and pre-destined to Salvation before the world began, according to Eph. 1:4 and other passages. In time, I suddenly found myself Saved by God's Grace when I wasn't even thinking about God. I am now 82 yrs old, and nothing has or could deter me from the Faith given to me. Even though I've had and still have, many questions about inerrancy, etc , it doesn't change the blessed hope that has been given me for my future upon leaving this life - 'to be absent from this body is to be present with my Lord'.

I needed to hear this more than I realized. The bit about not expecting 95% agreement really hit home for me.

A rich and beautiful conversation. God bless you both.

I watched this several times so I could take notes and really appreciate what Kristin is saying. Her perspective really gives me hope and encouragement, and it’s helping me to think more clearly about what it means to be a person of faith. I love how she doesn’t prioritize proving herself to others. I’ve been struggling with the hypocrisy of Christians for a while now and her responses here really have put that in perspective for me.

Just finished the book, and this is the third video I've watched with Kristen. Thanks for the "Holy Post." I'm a survivor of 30 years of Evangelicalism that found my way into the Eastern Orthodox Church. Her book and talks have helped me to better understand the dysfunction I was finally able to escape.

Wow, this conversation was super good. The professor is an excellent historical scholar and communicator , but equally fine as a person. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to experience her again.

Really appreciate this interview. I'm looking forward to more.

This conversation was so good. I want to watch it again to catch the wisdom and nuggets for authentic faith in a complex time. I appreciated both the key questions and engaging responses.

Thank you; I so appreciate Kristin!

Great interview. Thank you

Rejoice when you’re persecuted. Soooo real. It’s kinda of the point of being a Christian. I honestly wouldn’t want to be a typical white American Christian. I feel that they’re the kind of Christian’s that shout “but I did all these things in you name.” And God is like, nah idk you. They don’t know the God they serve. This white nationalist rhetoric and behavior is the literal opposite of Christ. Where was Jesus saying Rome was based on Godly principles? Or we need to over throw the Roman government? And please point me to the capitalistic scriptures! I can’t seem to find them lol It’s good to go through stuff like this. As a black woman, this is my everyday. Welcome to the club Ms. Du Mez ❤️

@jdtreharne

8 ай бұрын

Parable of the Talents (Luke 19:11-27)

@ricecristi

8 ай бұрын

@@jdtreharnethat’s definitely a parable about faithfulness. But prosperity gospel uses this parable at its surface level too, by not examining and ruminating on it’s actual meaning. Taken at face value I see why many people are taught to believe that. Like all the parables, God is always talking about the condition of the believers heart. But yes, I suppose it can be simply taken as, be a good steward over the blessing that God has blessed you with. But I just can’t separate that fact that these parables aren’t meant to be taken simply.

@jdtreharne

8 ай бұрын

@@ricecristi of course it's about more than just the surface, but the message is delivered by comparing to something that the disciples would have intrinsically understood as good - being a good steward of resources means trading and investing to get a return.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

8 ай бұрын

​@@jdtreharnewhen Jesus gave the Parable of the Sower, was He giving advice about agriculture and farming?

@jdtreharne

8 ай бұрын

@@makejesusgreatagain7220 yeah that's what I said 🙄

When you listen to man, it brings you to question your faith. when you listen to God you know what to do. No matter where you go people will be people. But God is always God. don't listen to man, listen only to God. No matter how we pray, we all pray to the same God. I think especially right now we need this understanding and this tolerance. We need to understand we are all partly right and all partly wrong and we keep praying as best we can because only God is perfect and he sent his only son to forgive us and save us.

Interested in understanding what she means when she says she's a Christian

I always like listening to KK Du Mez.

The Book," Jesus and John Wayne," so perfectly defined all I was seeing that was troubling, alarming, in the Evangelical Right community with which I was involved. It was exhausting trying the to defend my faith in Jesus to my friends, because I voted differently from them. Because of my concern of social and economic disparities, injustices on many levels, blatant racism, the intertwining of the faith into a growing fascistic mindset, the Dominionism Theology being rebranded as " Kingdom," and so much more that was alarming, I was viewed as a Marxist, a baby killer,, and worse. The parallels with the Lutheran Church's infusion into the Nazi Party in Germany and Christian Nationalism currently ramped up in the American Evangelical community was truely alarming. For these questions, I was ostracized, judged, labeled, and isolated. I shook the dust off of my feet, and continued my daily walk with Jesus. Your book helped enormously in connecting the dots. It led me into further investigation of how the train jumped the tracks. I read Katherine Stewart's " The Power Worshippers, " Sarah Posner's" Unholy," and finally Jeff Sharlet's " The Family," and its sequel "The Undertow." I listened to Robert Jones on interviews, Jamar Tisbee podcasts, looked forward towards Wednesdays when a new episode of " The Holy Post," aired. I flew solo for seven years; every Church I visited spewed the same poison. It was discouraging, grievous. I finally found a faith community outside of my own tradition; Christ centered, Bible based, sound in doctrine, and ethnically diverse. In fact, the majority of folks are Black, Latino, and who cares what else. It has been lovely. No bells and whistles, but sound teaching, loving, community minded. It has indeed been an exhausting season trying to make sense of the madness and being seen as The Enemy by former friends. Thank you again Kristin DuMez for providing an island of sanity on which to stand. Thank You HolyPost teachers for trustworthy content and honest dialogue. I am eternally grateful.

@juliakoso

8 ай бұрын

May I ask what denomination you ended up finding that worked with your beliefs?

@hapennysparrow

8 ай бұрын

A non Charismatic body called Church of Christ. It is simple devotion to Christ. No chills or thrills. I have been in Charismatic fellowships that were solid theologically, and some that were not. Some started out well, and then took a strong right turn into Christian Dominionism. It has been discouraging. To be honest, I had no intention of attending the Church of Christ church just around the corner from my home. The Lord actually spoke to me as I slept. It woke me up. He said," I want you to go to the nearby church." So I did. I has been sweet, simple, honest, multicultural, balanced teaching. As I said, no thrills, but the presence of the Holy Spirit is there. I am going in obedience to Jesus. I don't know if all fellowships of that denomination are as pure. It has been a relief not to be hyper vigilant about what I was hearing. I went solo for nearly 7 years. The Religious Right has hijacked the faith for political power grab and control. This has been a safe place for now. I can relax.

@juliakoso

8 ай бұрын

@hapennysparrow Thank you so much for your prompt and helpful response. I ended up at a ECLA Lutheran Church, and so far so good. But we shall see. So I’m still being open.

"To claim Christ's power does not equal following Christ." Exactly!!

Better intro Phil! Like the new format. Great work!! 👍🏽🌟

I don't know if this is a mini series or an ongoing one, but it would be awesome to have Tiffany Lee (Plumb) on this at some point!

@gwnfan

8 ай бұрын

This is a mini series

@nathanspencer9696

8 ай бұрын

​@@gwnfancool. Thanks for letting me know 😊

Good conversation. I still will never understand folks who believe in Predestination though.

Kristen is fantastic! Her book is important. ❤️😎

I believe in the Creator of this universe in all his glory and magnificence, and I try to follow the teachings of the Christ who I I do believe was the Creator’s messenger. However I honestly don’t think I have much in common with many who call themselves Christians. Many of them seem too accommodating to those who tend towards autocracy, Donald Trump for example. And historically, I don’t recall Christian taking a moral and principled stance against Hitler as Nazism arose in Germany to the detriment and destruction of millions . If they did it would have been too late for many. And unfortunately, some aspects of history seem to be repeating itself!

@jonathonpolk3592

8 ай бұрын

No, most Americans in the USA were generally silent towards Hitler, at least until his genocidal atrocities were released. But most German Christians were staunch Hitler supporters. They jumped in with the Nazis and bought into the nationalist rhetoric. The few vocal dissenters ended up killed by the State, and the rest of the Church was silent when that happened. It's quite sad.

As somebody who has been in both the Lutheran and Contintental Reformed traditions, I can understand why Kristin finds some of the questions awkward. In both religious traditions, Christianity is more or less something you are born into for the vast majority (nor is there necessarily the notion of being "born again" as a boundary marker), and people don't necessarily think about their religious identity self-consciously. It's a different ethos from American Evangelicalism, which is more individualistic.

Question wasn't answered.

@mikezeke7041

8 ай бұрын

Bingo

@ConnorMarc

8 ай бұрын

I think that was her point.

@bkucenski

8 ай бұрын

Did you try watching the video?

@mikezeke7041

8 ай бұрын

@@bkucenski I did.

@alexvandonkersgoed6916

8 ай бұрын

Funny, I heard her answer loud and clear. But then I'm of a Dutch Calvinist background myself so she's speaking my language.

I read the book... I have questions .... How does one try to out the self righteous without sounding self righteous themselves? It sounds very much the same when they believe the man in the sky not only gives a shit of what happens down here but also miraculously agrees with and supports everything the author stands for. To throw stones at one side and just ignore the issues on the other seems amazingly convenient.... as if wokeism and neo-marxist ideology isn't also followed with the same self righteous fervor of a secularized religion. Taking it upon themselves to punish the "sinful" and those who choose not to convert & adhere to it's doctrine. Sounds quite like the religious to me. We can't fix anything unless both sides are willing & able to be self aware and accountable.

On top of all her qualifications, she has a tremendous quantity of chill.

The opening framework for this series tries to connect the dots to the disillusionment "many" so-called "thoughtful, faithful Christians" this way: "The embrace of Trump and trumpism, the rise of ethnic nationalism and xenophobia, conspiracy theories and abuse scandals have rocked the church. Many have walked away in disgust. . ." As a non-partisan--Yes, I am a Christian who does not vote and who does not center my faith in politics--I wonder if you all realize what you reveal about yourselves. There was a time when a person went to a polling booth, cast their vote, went home and lived their lives. But now voters ascribe to politicians what is due only to God Himself. The Trump worship (especially among Christians) is sickening; but NO LESS sickening is the response of those who oppose him (especially among Christians). They too ascribe to him a sort of power worthy only of God. And this podcast, among others, illustrates that. What does it say about a person's faith if it can so easily be weakened by another's actions? Do you think believers never dealt with disillusionment in the church before Trump? Do you think people were never hurt in the church before the abuse scandals were exposed? You will not encounter a member of a church who has not been hurt in the church, whether maliciously or not. We are sinners; we fail each other. Why are academics like Du Mez (Shiny, Happy People), Moore (Russell) and others so fixated on abuse in the church but turn a blind's eye to abuse (which is MUCH more rampant) in Academic Institutions. Yes, both are wrong; perpetrators should be in jail. But there seems to be a united army to bring down evangelicalism, soldiers convincing themselves they are doing the Lord's work. Look at the review posts just on Du Mez's book "J&JW" on Amazon alone. Notice how many atheists were recommended the book and how many of them draw comfort from her in their unbelief. Unbelief is EVIL (Hebrews 3:12). Du Mez admittedly has trouble expressing her faith--she said so herself; yet; she is completely at ease speaking of history this and history that. If you listen closely you can hear why that is. Her reason for remaining in Christianity in her words: "It's where I belong. As a Calvinist I don't see it as a matter of choice" She relates it to something she read in Beth Moore's memoir who describes an incident at a summer camp of a "profound religious experience" at a sink at a summer camp that put her life on that sort of trajectory; Du Mez describes a similar experience in a dorm room in a Texas in graduate school. The context for this "experience" (whatever it was) was the study of gender, feminism, HISTORY, yada yada and encountering many "nice" non-believers in contrast to those dastardly mean Christians. This was the profound religious experience she points to as anchoring her faith. Those mystic experiences described by Beth Moore and Du Mez reveal why these two find themselves, among others, on the paths they are on and it's why Du Mez specifically runs to History as an anchor for her soul; history is tangible. Christianity (in her mind) is arbitrary. She indicates there are "many" ways to think about Jesus, you can approach Him, serve Him, think about Him, etc the way you want to and "I" can think of Him the way I want to. But this is the problem many mystics run into. They are not content with the revelation Jesus has given of God (Colossians 2:9) and they seek something outside of His revelation to fit their agenda or preconceived notions. Jesus came to this earth and claimed the human experience for Himself. Jesus entered time and claimed HISTORY (yes!) for Himself. And until a person understands the human experience in the context of His--until a person understands history in the context of His work on the cross, they remain a ship without an anchor. What anchors your soul, Kristen? You indicate it is Jesus, but how? A few weeks ago I had covid and was stuck watching streaming documentaries, etc. I watched Shiny, Happy People on Prime and The Unabomber on Netflix, back to back. There was NO redemptive emphasis in Shiny Happy People. But the Unabomber ended on a redemptive note with his brother and one of the victims who survived. The world longs for redemption. I'm perplexed by those who wish to undermine it. Reader beware; listen closely to these people: there is NO redemption for fallen Christians in this war against evangelicalism. Back to the podcast as a whole: Why is it "okay" to come to Christ on your own terms but Christians can only vote for a specific candidate as confirmation of genuine faith? Again, I think this podcast (not just this series) exposes government worship and politician worship and idol after idol after idol embraced by the hosts and guests, and while thinking they are exposing them (idols) in other people are actually exposing them in themselves.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

8 ай бұрын

Extreme example, but was it just as bad for Christians to support Hitler, oppose Hitler, or remain neutral?

@Kim-dp1lj

8 ай бұрын

​@@makejesusgreatagain7220 The source of Hitler's atrocities are clear (John 8:44); I believe Jesus, as the Bruised Heel (Genesis 3:15) has crushed the source of those atrocities (1 John 3:8b). I have only met Christians who identify Hitler's work for what it was--in other words I have never a Christian who supports Hitler nor is neutral toward him; only those who oppose him.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

8 ай бұрын

​​@@Kim-dp1ljit's easy to find Hitler to be abhorrent now with the benefit of hindsight. Many Christians living in the Weimar Republic didn't see the danger that he and the Nazis were until it was too late. History is rhyming, and too few Christians see the parallels in America today.

@cipherklosenuf9242

7 ай бұрын

Hi Kim, you’ve given this much thought and careful consideration. May we agree that a person who takes a carving tool and crafts a wooden statue then declares it ‘holy’ is creating an idol…a false god of wood…correct? That’s idolatry which you reject. So, May we agree that a person who takes a writing tool, and crafts words that are then attributed to an invisible, self-aware, eternal powerful being …creating a book declared ‘holy’ …that’s a falsehood too…right? …personally I think of it as biblio-idolatry. How May one reliably know when a human author accurately relates the true words of an eternal being? My position is simply that people write books …just as people carve statues. What are your thoughts?

Jesus said you can tell good people, "By their fruit." What is your fruit? What good are you doing? Being a full time critic is the easiest job in the world. You never have to invent or discover, you just sit back and wait for someone to make a mistake. Where are your good ideas that benefit Americans? Oh, you don't have any and never will. Everyone else is going to have to do all of that and you are going to criticize them the entire time. Being full of hate towards others is not Christian.

Good grief!

Hypocritical Christians? Jesus talks all about them - wolves & goats... Wolves in sheep's clothing, and goats separated from the sheep on Judgement Day. They're all around us - sitting next to us in church even, where they expect that sitting in church will guarantee they're going to heaven, about as much as standing in their garage will make them into a car!! That's why Jesus says, judge a tree by its fruit.

"Not with the most extreme guys out there.... ....sorry to be gender specific..." Best moment. Haha.

Ecclesiology. It's a simple term. Use ut.

When Jesus was talking about persecution and the world, he talks about the prophets being killed. They were killed by the Jews, not the Gentiles. He was warning about the "world" inside the church. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Not the world outside the church.

I'm sorry it was represented to you or lived out to you that complementarianism means you have to be a stay at home mom or can't be a historian. That's just not how we understand and practice it in our church. There have been Mr. mom's here and women Phd's, Sorry for the wrong-headed guilt.

@davidwestra8181

8 ай бұрын

One of the things that I find when conversing with people from different theological viewpoints than my own, is that we are often running with different dictionaries for these kinds of terms. I’ve heard so many different personal definitions of complementarian and egalitarian, that it’s no wonder people often argue. I know plenty of complementarians who would say that your definition is egalitarian. They debate thinking we are all using the same dictionary. I think we often need to get on the same page when having discussions and debates and start by defining our terms.

She’s is or has deconstructed her faith. She holds up progressive liberal Rachel Held Evans as a model to follow.

@pplucker9486

6 ай бұрын

When you and other people like you realize that individuals are more complex than man-made identities and divisions, you will finally feel free.

@pplucker9486

6 ай бұрын

It would also be incredible if you could learn that "deconstruction" is not the boogeyman. And the WHOLE VIDEO is about how this woman still follows Christ, despite knowing more than anyone how awful some Christians and their actions are.

@Love_Daisys

3 ай бұрын

If your a misogynistic male you are going to face God's wrath so get prepared!

@Love_Daisys

3 ай бұрын

We love Rachel Held Evans and she was absolutely correct 🎉❤

Well, your Lord Jesus Christ was beaten, scourged, suffered and died on a cross for your sins...but hey, I'm glad you can maintain that stiff upper lip and "remain a Christian through it all", maam. Quite heroic of you! You go girl!!

@glennsnapp290

8 ай бұрын

Wow! It’s exactly that sort of rhetoric that chased me away from Christ and ministry in the first place. Congratulations! You’ve convinced me anew that the Church is broken, its people full of fear and hatred.

@kathierezek3515

8 ай бұрын

@@glennsnapp290 Yeah, kind of exactly what she was talking about. Just shaking my head and shaking it off.

@beththomas777

8 ай бұрын

Thank you. This is important work. 1997 was our year for being beaten up by the (lower case) church. When we were no longer welcome in our church as ministers nor even congregants for questioning the blanket authority of the pastor, which the pastor viewed that disobeying him equaled disobeying God, we asked God "Well, now where do we go to church?" Surprisingly, we got an (internal, intuitive?) answer in prayer: "Stop being Christian, learn how to be Christ's. Take a Sabbatical." Definition of Sabbatical: Taken every Seventh year by academicians and clergy, usually with pay, for the purpose of restoration and recreation and to become aware of what is afoot in the larger field of one's calling." Our sabbatical lasted 7 years. And we found out what was afoot in the larger field of our calling as Christians. Note that I did not say of our calling as ministers. We learned How God provided our Daily Bread (paid our Sabbatical way) and in the larger 'Field' we experienced the beauty of belonging to Christ that is not subject to 'the church's' opinion. I'm so glad we chose to let ourselves identify with Christ who was crucified outside of the camp and rose again for ALL of our sakes. Thank you for caring for those who are viewed as outcasts who really have been cast IN & ON to the never-ending, UNFAILING love of Christ Jesus.

@mikezeke7041

8 ай бұрын

@@glennsnapp290 ⁠ever considered that it is a 2 way street? I’m part of a purity death spiral cult, I’m part of toxic masculinity, etc. I could cry and say that chased me off from the church, yet no one would care

@clemson1993

8 ай бұрын

@@glennsnapp290 The church is full of sinners similarly to how a hospital is full of sick people, so count me amongst them. And that has ZERO to do with what Christ did for you, nor should it be used as some lame excuse to not follow Him. The man was beaten suffered and died for you, but that you don't like some of the attitudes of His followers you don't go to church?! Thats a YOU issue that needs Christ. Go to church, sir.

Like her I don’t associate with Evangelicalism. It has nothing to do with Jesus! It’s all about race and power!