Myself, a Mexican with indian blood, am not bothered by a story of European mythology, with caucasian folks. I am bothered though, by lack of logic, pretentious dialogue, absurd situations and intolerable "heroes." You are very right, Some Guy. This show will be only remembered for how bad it is.

@CharlieBrownZero

Жыл бұрын

Just wait until they parody your culture and mythology with flashy propaganda

@rasaecnai

Жыл бұрын

Same. Im asian. I dnt give a shit if the show is full white, full black, or a mixed of both. So long as it is well written and actually make sense, everything else can be forgiven.

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

the irony is, that mostly these are white people in Hollywood, who are so guilty feeling about white shaming, that they think PoC ar as small minded as them. As far as i know, nobody is that unaware of reality as those folks.

@rickoshay5525

Жыл бұрын

I'm half Mexican and a quarter Aztec Indian as a result, and I too would prefer that Lord of the Rings stay white just like how I want Zulu mythology and Nubian mythology to stay black.

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@rickoshay5525 it's the same with the gaming industry... where the woke community blamed Kingdom Come Deliverance to not have enough representation of PoC in 1403 east Bohemia, a rural area you cannot get any more caucasian in population... right...

The fact that two guys with no previously published work were selected as the show runners is just wild.

@johnjohnsonjohn

Жыл бұрын

Makes sense. They're yes men with zero clout who are happy to be controlled

@agentsmithmememe

Жыл бұрын

Barely mentioned on Star Trek Beyond

@mr.s2005

Жыл бұрын

They had no experience so amazon could have them do whatever amazon wants without much opposition, and then Amazon can use them as the scape goats when it all crashes and burns.. could explain why the showrunners are so desperate to blame someone else. .

@larrygolad

Жыл бұрын

Two guys with 10 years of not-success...

@brianmurphy6480

Жыл бұрын

Diversity hires aren't limited to minorities of skin color or sexual orientation; the biggest group of all are incompetent morons, because the more of them there are in an industry, the less likely they are to be called out as being exactly what they are. This explains Congress, the current administration, and the Federal/State bureaucracies. 🤷‍♂️

The "Rings of Power" production actually hired Tom Shippey as a Tolkien expert to lend credibility to their show and then promptly fired him when he started to complain about the direction the show was taking. Tom Shippey worked as a consultant on Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" and he appears several times in the "making of" section of the DVD set. This guy has thoroughly studied Tolkien and Middle Earth and knows what he's talking about.

@kristofferlarsen8043

Жыл бұрын

That may be true but that doesn’t negate the fact that they have completely changed the timeline. This is especially the case when it comes to Nurmenor

@houndofculann1793

Жыл бұрын

@@kristofferlarsen8043 there is no timeline in the show, they don't even have geography

@TomYawns

Жыл бұрын

@@kristofferlarsen8043 why would him bringing up how the Tolkien expert was fired for trying to correct the showrunners somehow "negate the fact" that they didn't take his advice? i'm hoping this is a language barrier thing (though your phrasing suggests otherwise,) because your wording comes off as disagreeing with a person who you agree with. what did you think @Catzkilla was trying to say?

@sirazazeloflowkey6424

Жыл бұрын

@@kristofferlarsen8043 The words you are using, I don't think they mean what you think they mean. They changed a lot more than the timeline, you know.

@MolotovBg

Жыл бұрын

They hired a similar person for Wheel Of Time, and proceeded to not listen to them but still keep them as a token adviser so that they have an excuse that they are following the books. Amazon Studios is just incapable of producing anything good....apart from The Boys.

The awkward moment when Adar one of the villains is more likeable then the heroes you’re supposed to root for

@dizzyheads

Жыл бұрын

Those heroes are so much more evil

@metal_monocle7334

Жыл бұрын

For sure; the speech Galadriel gives Adar is just comically evil

@authorofgriz

Жыл бұрын

More like Celebrimbor than Celebrimbor

In an age, where JJ Abrams is considered a talented director and even looked for for assistance- we are all doomed.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623

Жыл бұрын

He is not called the Cinematic Anti-Christ for nothing. Wherever he and his acolytes get involved franchises die.

@abelbabel8484

Жыл бұрын

On the contrary, that means we can beat the quality of Hollywood scripts with our own easier than ever :)

@martrog3429

Жыл бұрын

@charles gee his not a talented director, he is the worst thing that happened to modern cinema, each of his movies is crap, no plot, no logic, he can't tell a good story, just fireworks.

@Aledahal

Жыл бұрын

I liked star trek 2009 and MI3! The rest not so much...

@englishlady9797

Жыл бұрын

The shills for the series are actually lauding it as better than Abrams because they didn't do a "big reveal" for Adar.

Imagine a restaurant bought the rights to macaroni and cheese. Now imagine that the rights include not just the recipe, but also a thorough consultation with a local chef who perfected the dish. Then the restaurant ignores the chef and changes the ingredients to just ketchup and peanut butter, but keeps the name. Now imagine that the owners of the restaurant are shocked, upset, and insulted that people don't like their macaroni and cheese. They say that there was nothing in the recipe that said ketchup and peanut butter couldn't be in it, or that it really even needed to have macaroni in it in the first place. Then they declare that you are evil and just incapable of adapting to 'modern times' Amazon is that restaurant.

@ZeroHxC07

Жыл бұрын

It doesn’t matter how much sense it makes, zealots don’t listen to reason.

@leo86channel

Жыл бұрын

Not just Amazon but Disney, paramount and Netflix too

@aimansuriaprakash2380

Жыл бұрын

Perfect.

@MsLqaile

Жыл бұрын

+1 to you Sir...

@colorin81colorado

Жыл бұрын

I am reading this conversation while actually eating Macaroni and Cheese! Most relevant to my current moment in time! Sadly Amazon totally got duped by the showrunners!

As a Scottish historian, the fact that Braveheart - a film so wildly historically inaccurate it might as well be fantasy - was the best example of a 'realistic' film they could come up with in their pitch is depressingly hilarious. Explains a lot.

@Luigi-hn1hu

Жыл бұрын

Showrunners don't know Braveheart isn't historically acurate, but they also don't know how to make something enjoyable, wich at least Braveheart is.

Also... in Tolkien's world there ARE ethnically diverse people. Why couldn't they create storylines for characters belonging to the Haradrims and/or the Esterlings, for example? How cool would that have been? The answer is: they didn't because they don't ACTUALLY care about these issues. They just want their shiny diversity badge. Utterly disappointing

@CrankyGrandma

Жыл бұрын

I would have loved a story following the blue wizards in the East and South.

@couchpotatoe91

Жыл бұрын

@@CrankyGrandma That would've honestly been so freaking cool! It also would've been interesting from a diversity perspective since the Wizards as Maia would appear to the folks as what they perceived to have wisdom as gravitas. In the West those were old men, but maybe in Harad at least one of the wizards could've been a (female?) oracle? It would've given them reasons to be diverse without butchering the lore and an interesting thing to explore. Also they could've hired as many black and Arabian actors as they wanted because... well, it actually makes sense. I don't want a white guy there without a good explanation (trader?). Sauron (also being a Maia) probably also wouldn't have appeared as "white" to them as he would've stuck out like a sore thumb. Man, imagine what a tragic, epic story we could've had with the blue wizards either being killed or joining Sauron. Wouldn't that have been exciting to watch because we don't know the wizards' fate from Tolkien? Maybe one stays strong and gets killed as a Martyr and the other joins Sauron killing his brethren, only to be betrayed by Sauron afterwards? They even could've had "bad white guys" by portraying the Numenor as arrogant ungrateful assholes jealous of the Elves (with a few exceptions). All within the actual lore! But that would've required them to not only be imaginative, but also read the actual lore or consult heavily with those that did. So many possibilities. But they tried playing it safe by making the show about an already beloved character and race thinking the fans will give them a pass with a mediocre product. And the fans probably would've, but it was just plain terrible.

@inkognito1534

Жыл бұрын

@@couchpotatoe91 Simple, quick blackwashing is easier than logical, realistic ethnic diversity with cultural backgrounds ..... but they don't notice that they are making ridiculous and rejectable what they actually want to achieve .... To be honest, I myself hardly had any problems with the desired wannabe diversity, more with the huge plot holes, the missing logic, the embarrassing dialogues and the poorly played and miserably written characters...

@eldara3

Жыл бұрын

Even if you're too lazy to create actual great stories about the Easterlings or Haradrim, just pick a faction and race-swap them wholesale instead of trying to shove different-race individuals into highly isolationist societies. Fuck, make the Southlanders black for example. That nets you a female black character in Bronwyn, her black kid, black Halbrand. Find actors of a more mediterranean or arabic cast for the Numenorians. They're descended from multiple human tribes iirc and live on a sunny island with ancient greece-inspired architecture (in the show, anyway) - it's entirely believable that they would have mixed into people with a pleasantly warm complexion. Just not... this. This was the ultimate most lazy thing they could have done, and their perspective as people who have only ever lived in US metropolitan regions shows very clearly.

I wanna congratulate Sauron for winning. You deserve it, Dark Lord.

@WildZephyr

Жыл бұрын

He really does.

@salimdeaibes

Жыл бұрын

Mordor sends its regards

@jaybee9269

Жыл бұрын

Stop dead naming him.

@Annatar_Lord_of_Gifts

Жыл бұрын

@@jaybee9269 Technically he never died. He literally roamed the world as a wisp for the rest of time

@jaybee9269

Жыл бұрын

@@Annatar_Lord_of_Gifts >> Voldemort? Is that you, sweetie?

It's such a cowardly thing to do to blame the audience. The fans are the ones who are going to lift you up when you fall and if you piss them off, they can and rightfully will bury you.

@jasonmckenzie2835

Жыл бұрын

To think that they spent $250 million for this IP, which is essentially the fans, only to piss on them and complain that their show wasn't a success.

@mr.s2005

Жыл бұрын

They are supposed to be make series for the fans....not to stroke their own egos and their fake activism

@Disneyfan82

Жыл бұрын

@@mr.s2005 Blaming the fans for their own screw ups only proves us right every time when those immature whiny man children in charge are nothing but spoiled arrogant whining brats in adult bodies who can't stand being in the wrong when they are.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonmckenzie2835 They don't see the fans as part of that IP. In fact they downright hate us because we are not the fans they want.

@scaldarvonascalon5514

Жыл бұрын

It's just a leftist thing. They always wanna change the world... They always belive they are the the majority and they are right because their ideas are supreme. And thats why they schooling, labeling and harassing ppls whos dosn't agree with them. The joke is this kind of behavior what birth fasists, reactionists and another fairright or thirdway party ppls from the avarge who never reaaly cared about ideologies and politics.

Galadriel "I've been betrayed by my closest friends and allies because they can't differentiate me from the evil I'm chasing" Also Galadriel "ORC GENOCIDE!!!"

@inkognito1534

Жыл бұрын

Don't worry, it's the Galadrinator ... she can do that. ;)

The thing is, Tolkien DID write at least one warrior-woman (Eowyn.) What she did was notable and amazing because it was EXCEPTIONAL. No one expected it, no one else thought of it, and the reveal was dramatic and badass because she flew under the radar right up until the moment she defeated the Witch-King. Including boob-armored Numenorean she-warriors, making Galadriel's main skill set martial, and having even more "traditional" female characters fighting and defeating orcs, negates all the significance of Eowyn's story. Reminds me too much of what Disney did to the original, beloved Star Wars characters, voiding their heroic actions in the original trilogy so that new characters could step in and do the same stuff, only more annoyingly.

@jaceyking5015

Жыл бұрын

Well and I hate how it also makes it seem like more "traditional" women are worthless. I guess that must be how they (Hollywood) feel about regular women, you're not good unless you're some hardcore warrior. Sure, most epic tales in history have involved men, but that doesn't mean that women weren't important in their roles as well. Frankly, I'd rather be taking care of a homestead than dying in a war. And there were lots of great stories even going back into Antiquity that featured women in the spotlight, usually using their cunning rather than brawn to save the day. With exceptions of course. Awesome warrior women have always existed, just not as prevalent.

@jacquelineking5783

Жыл бұрын

@@jaceyking5015 kinda reminds me of how Penelope tested Odysseus near the end of the Odyssey. She proved a matched for the trickster.

@austincummins7712

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention that 1 of the 3 original clans of the race of men were named for a female warrior. Unlike the other two- whose clan names bore the name of their first male created the third was named for "Haleth" who was the daughter of the first male of that clan. Their stronghold is besieged by orcs, and they are about to be overrun so her father leads a sortie out against them. He is killed, and his body is mutilated by the orcs- which angers her brother who charges out to avenge his father and is also killed. After their clan see this, they lose hope and considering surrendering to the orcs. Instead, Haleth [the daughter] leads a third sortie against the orcs and continues to hold them off until elves arrive and help them repel the attack completely. The elf who lead the relief party is Caranthir the Dark (one of the seven sons of Feanor) and he is known for being haughty, quick to anger, and basically an ass, but he is so impressed by Haleth and her deeds that he offers her clan a safe haven in his realm where they will be safe from orcs (as was done for the other two clans of men by other elvish lords, who were lucky enough to be discovered first by elves instead of orcs). Haleth, being a badass, basically says thanks but we are good here (albeit, in a more eloquent and Tolkienian fashion) because they prefer to establish their own independence as a people. The story from that point forward has an Amazonian warrior theme to it, with her bodyguards being also warrior women. Funny enough, Amazon could have bought and adapted just this portion of the story. It is obscure and minor enough to be inconsequential to the later canon, yet it is foundational to establishing an entire line of peoples in the race of men in Tolkien's universe, and it literally has their namesake in terms of the theme (Amazon warrior women). They could have had their "piss and vinegar" warrior woman in a way that actually fits and makes sense. But of course, you won't hit the shallower audience demographic whose definition of Tolkien is "there has to be hobbits and wizards" (kinda like the people who did not like Star Wars Rogue One because there weren't any jedis or lightsabers [except the very end with Vader]- "all we got was the blind guy with his stick! where's muh laser sword").

@zxyatiywariii8

Жыл бұрын

@@jaceyking5015 Hollywood thinks women should be men and men should be women.

@tonyphillips5525

Жыл бұрын

Eowyn. Luthien was badass too. And Melian and Elwing and Idril.

Amazon: **Makes Galadriel shrug a 1,300F° Pyroclastic flow** Fans: “…that’s kinda dumb” Amazon: “ _Clearly_ the fans are literal *eViL* “

@MyReligionIs2DoGood

Жыл бұрын

A zero too much. ;)

@ministryofwrongthink6962

Жыл бұрын

@@MyReligionIs2DoGood Fixed. I blame it on the metric system 😉

@adventtrooper

Жыл бұрын

We all know that evil fire doesn't burn. But only because that appears to be the show's physics to date.

@techwizpc4484

Жыл бұрын

Fans: In our eyes pyroplastic flow is HOT!

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

If the fire in Mount Doom isn't hot, how can the incoming water vaporize so fat that it causes the volcano to explode? Magic? But why than not doing other magic like throwing the black sword into it? People who only know LotR and like the show would have loved it. Fantasy worlds have rules. Either you explain the rules or show them OR be a Narcicisst and get pissed when people ask questions about these rules and the logic or lack of logic of the things that happen. It's not enough to answer every question with "it's fantasy". Fantasy can't undo all the logic faults, the inconsistancy. It's okay when small children tell their stries that way. Not adults who went to film school and studied script writing.

Take something loved, bastardize it, ignore the fans telling you they don't approve and won't watch it, cry that your thing isn't well received. Repeat.

@andrewcurlutu6422

Жыл бұрын

Pretty much. These preening simpletons have nobody but themselves to blame for the show's poor reception. They are essentially urinating on Tolkien's grave with this obnoxious trash.

@samiahmed117

Жыл бұрын

Whatever you may think of ROP. It's been watched all right. People who hate it watch and discuss the show every week and people who like the show do aswell. The streaming figures are impressive. The highest streamed and watched weekly show on now. But that facts like that goes against the narrative.

@AskMoonBurst

Жыл бұрын

@@samiahmed117 Really? I can't imagine why anyone besides reviewers would watch a show they don't like. How strange.

@shriramvenu

Жыл бұрын

@@samiahmed117 the actual streaming figures isn't released and kept secret by Amazon. Nobody really knows how much the show is being watched.

@samiahmed117

Жыл бұрын

@@shriramvenu Check out Nielsen ratings, they show the streaming numbers for each show. Also, if you claim we don't know the actual figures how do you know the show is doing bad? KZread comment section lool.

Man I love the portrayal of friendship and people bonding by putting aside their differences, especially because it's presented so greatly! For example: Numenorians: we hate elves Galadriel: but I want you to do what I wand Numenoreans: holy shit she's amazing and totally right! We love elves now! Southlanders: we hate elves Elves: well your ancestors were some pieces of shit so you deserve the treatment we give you, anyways shits about to go down so you down to team up? Southlanders: holy shit he's right, we love elves! Dwarves: we hate elves Elves: but my people are dying so I'm gonna use you for the better of my race, we need the ore or we will die, actually it kinda belongs to us cause dude fought a balrog and so you know, magic and shit, so give us what we want Durin: oh my god! Why didn't you say so earlier? I fucking love elves, ofc I'm gonna help! Its literally just elves wanting shit and people hating them but doing it anyways.

@Tempusverum

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of some other “Elves” in the industry today

@couchpotatoe91

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@Neldot

Жыл бұрын

Well, in a way, it's a metaphore for how the US usually relate with the rest of the world. "Hey dude, we see you have oil" "It's none of your business" "Well, we see you have mass destruction weapons, we invade!" "Oh my God, we love you, take our oil! Do you need something else?"

@TallisKeeton

Жыл бұрын

😂😂

@Kveldred

Жыл бұрын

@@Tempusverum Um actually it's antisindaric to not give elves whatever they want, sweaty

I love when a character says "ok" on rings of power

@TallisKeeton

Жыл бұрын

🤦‍♀🤣

They didn't strip Galadriel of her strength, they stripped her of her morality. ROP Galadriel is so amoral that she cannot distinguish between good and evil.

@Nobleheart111

Жыл бұрын

Maybe Sauron can come along and save the world from the evil that is Galadriel.

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

disagree she is actively immoral

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

The show is still better than the Jackson movies

@michaelkrull3331

Жыл бұрын

The word for that is psychopathy.

@robertbryant8243

Жыл бұрын

@@reek4062 The acting was better in the Jackson films, the costume and set designs were better (they actually took the time to make convincing chain mail), the CGI was better, the story more cohesive, character motivations were more consistent, and despite certain changes they were more consistent with their book counterparts. So how is this show better than the Jackson films?

I still can't get passed "the sea is always right" and the hobbits chanting leave no one behind as they leave people behind

@Whimpy13

Жыл бұрын

'Looks Like Meat's Back on the Menu, Boys, Girls and Others!' -The Harfoots

@ringlord555

Жыл бұрын

Nori's Dad: No Harfoot has ever been left behind very next scene Lenny Henry: Now to read stories of all the harfoots we left behind

@willbournerv2259

Жыл бұрын

"Why does a rock sink and a ship float? It is because a rock only looks downward" What a genius quote that will be remembered through the ages!

@nicolesax9903

Жыл бұрын

@@willbournerv2259 in that ridiculous scene they should have played rock, paper, scissors.

@fancyhat6505

Жыл бұрын

​@@willbournerv2259 that isn't actually in the show is it? I refuse to watch it, but surely that isn't an actual quote from the show.

I got my warning from struggling through that empty-headed nonsense Amazon labelled as "Wheel of Time". In both cases we have poor and unimaginative writers who think they know better than geniuses, and also think that they can squash modern themes into timeless classics. Here's a hint: timeless means that it can be watched and enjoyed without knowing much about the period in which it is written. These shows are forever nailed to "now".

@OK-ws7ti

Жыл бұрын

I watched a whole 5 minutes but I couldnt get past how they portrayed the taint of saidar as “ooh schizophrenia” like get bent

@teleriferchnyfain

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree. And yet, WoT is much preferable to THIS mess.

If this show is remembered in 60 years, it'll be listed along with _Bonfire of the Vanities_ (1990) and _The Island of Dr Moreau_ (1996) as an example of how to lose money.

I loved it when Galadriel threatened a prisoner of war to perform an ethnic cleansing of his people including little children in front of him if he does not tell her what she wants to know I wish it was usual Tolkien fans sarcasm under RoP videos but it unfortunately is not the case

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

I give her the byname "Hitlerina the tempest"

@JV-iv9ml

Жыл бұрын

​@@Johnny12575 Wait, that actually happened?

@thehippie3610

Жыл бұрын

She...she threatened to genocide a people?

@jorgepascualfuentecilla3746

Жыл бұрын

@@JV-iv9ml Yes

@AlleluiaElizabeth

Жыл бұрын

Well the children in question were orcs, and I’m not sure it’s canon they even have little kids. But in this show they do. So yeah.

When you trash a beloved world, NOBODY HAS TO COORDINATE THE BACKLASH, it will be completely organic.

@Syaniiti

Жыл бұрын

Technically the showrunners coordinated the backlash by being utter garbage.

You always do such an excellent job of explaining your thoughts - better than most other people on KZread. Like, not a word wasted. No fluff.

2022, where a billion dollar organization can blame fans, hide reviews, refuse to accept criticism, openly lie nonstop and still claim they're the good guys.

@Schimml0rd

Жыл бұрын

Final stage capitalism. Its only gonna get worse from here.

Even in points of complete despair, you can have two halflings look at each other and say, “Let’s take the wheels off someone’s cart and leave them to die.”

@zxyatiywariii8

Жыл бұрын

It's amazing how Leftists make their "representative" characters so unlikable.

@dwsel

Жыл бұрын

Oh shh 😮 that was double evil

@DraknalHitdan

Жыл бұрын

And then "mourn" them later for "falling behind."

A wise man once said; "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made". I just wish I could remember who it was...

@rgerber

Жыл бұрын

must be some stuck up rightist with ancient ideals

@SansoHumar

Жыл бұрын

Hulk Hogan?????

@mbergamin16

Жыл бұрын

I see what you did there, and I like it 🖒

@MikeTheD

Жыл бұрын

Your mom I believe, but not sure

@dudebruh8534

Жыл бұрын

"This bussy is bussin"- Albert Einstein

The fact that your review and commentary is more engaging than the show itself is a testament to the quality of this series. At this point I only watch the episode to enjoy your straightforward opinion of it :) 😅

"This show wasn't made for fans of Tolkien's works" I heard that. My coworker said that he couldn't get through the Fellowship because of Tolkien's writing style, yet comes out and says that The Things of Power is great. Wasn't Tolkien uninterested in many action scenes so then focused on character beats instead? Yet RoP is chock full of action, something he never intended to add. Says a lot about not only Hollywood but also the audience they're really aiming for.

@trianglemoebius

Жыл бұрын

Tolkien wasn't uninterested in action, but he felt said action had to be earned. Tolkien felt that too much action not only oversaturates your story with it and makes it inherently less interesting, but also that characters can only win so many battles before the threats to them stop having any weight. The action scenes Tolkien wrote were massive, but perfect payoffs to equally as massive buildups. The Siege of Gondor comes to mind, a massive multi-army battle that never lost its epic factor by being one of a million action scenes.

@Schimml0rd

Жыл бұрын

Average IQ has been dropping for decades now. I always think of the Romans, the greek, the Egyptian,.. and ask myself what is it that brings all empires to a fall and how long until we reach said point.

“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like" - Lindsey Weber, executive producer This garbage fire of a show is what happens when you hamfist modern politics, views and talking points into a fictional world. It just doesn't make for a very compelling story. In the Lord of the Rings lore Orcs were once Elves, but corrupted by Morgoth. This is sorta what is happening to Lord of the Rings.

@JoJo-vg8dz

Жыл бұрын

The real world doesn't look like that at all. It's not the real world, it's the fantasized world of wokists. Commandants in armies on the terrain of combat are men. Women would be crushed by men in combat in any war. Communities of nomad people are not mixed. Populations are not mixed unless there is emigration or descendants of slaves. Which is not the case among dwarves, hobbits and elves. It would be more realistic if all the hobbits of a southern tribe were all black. But not mixed.

@Walamonga1313

Жыл бұрын

In other words, "it only felt natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would not portray what his world looks like"

@whitegoose2017

Жыл бұрын

​@@Walamonga1313 At this point I find that "Rings of Power" tells me more who the writers are than what the story is about..

@sillypuppy5940

Жыл бұрын

No, it would be natural to have it reflect what the world (specifically Europe) actually looked like when he wrote LOTR. Strange to say this, but the world we live in has changed out of all recognition since he was alive (I've been around a while, and I can attest to this). The fact that these people cannot accept or understand this says much about them. This is not the only huge mistake they've made, though.

@whitegoose2017

Жыл бұрын

​@@sillypuppy5940 It is my understanding that Tolkien felt that English people were missing a proper mythology, so he started writing one with that idea in his mind. Sure, you cannot escape your own bias completely, because that's practically impossible, but he made something original anyway. Hey, I'm from Finland and even we've got our own mythology and folklore in the form of Kalevala. Apparently Tolkien drew some inspiration from there as well. That's just the nature of writing itself. You draw inspiration from the sources surrounding you, but to the writers of this Rings of Garbage I would say drawing inspiration from American politics / MAGA talking points and so forth is the WORST thing you can ever do.

wasn't it brave of Galadriel to tell the lava heading her way "can I speak to your manager."

@JayJay5244

Жыл бұрын

She literally just threatened the manager and his entire family in true Karen fashion 😂😂

As a conservative, I really appreciate thoughtful leftists and cannot imagine why anyone would assume that you would hold positions identical to theirs... I am just glad that you are thoughtful and intelligent (whether I agree with everything you say or not). Thank you for your work.

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

Morons seek each other out

@simpbeforeusleep

Жыл бұрын

Is he though? He literally just called you a bigot for being conservative and you are thanking him and telling him you appreciate him because you agree on one thing about a crappy tv series. People like you is why I hate cuckservatives.

@raya8919

Жыл бұрын

Both left, right and center love Tolkien. We have common ground. It would be nice if we could find that common ground in other areas of life.

@DreamingDarlin

Жыл бұрын

@@raya8919 Totally agree!

@tarsxenomorph8845

Жыл бұрын

I am a socialist European and would disagree with some of Just some Guy politics, but still respect his opinions

Love your contempt vs respect comparison. So accurate

They really made Guyladriel straight up evil in this. No wonder manager Gil-Galad wanted her gone.

@pornofthejedi

Жыл бұрын

Galadriel is Sauron? That would be a twist...

@Francesco-fo9oo

Жыл бұрын

Well, they made Galadriel evil and Gil-Galad a stupid ahole. No elf is safe in this show...

@Barwasser

Жыл бұрын

@@Francesco-fo9oo yes... no elf... *looks at (totally-not-hobbit) Halffoots leaving each other to die

@Francesco-fo9oo

Жыл бұрын

@@Barwasser Or humans just dirty and stupid (except Bronwyn of course) and Numenoreans that change their minds every 5 minutes and send to battle the postman instead of the glorious army they should have. From every angle this show is... bs!

It just dawned on me that they have written Galadriel as Captain Ahab of Moby Dick, who was obsessed with finding the white whale and had no compunction about sacrificing others in pursuit of his obsession.

@RoseBaggins

Жыл бұрын

And there's no Ishmael or Queequeg to follow, you know, the more interesting characters.

@veritusahriman9720

Жыл бұрын

ROP Galadriel = Fëanor, similar to Captain Ahab but worse in many regards.

Just Some Guy: this is my first time listening to one of your reviews, but it will not be the last. I have to say that was one of the most insightful and well thought out discourses I have heard on KZread about this silly show. Well done sir. You have a new subscriber.

I love how they talked in the article about how they got hit with criticism while the show was still in its earlier stages. But I remember it mostly started when they spoke about how Amazon hired 'intimacy experts' when the series they are trying to add onto had nothing even remotely requiring the supervision of 'sexperts.' Any person who read the book or saw the movies would know this. Now they are even more pissed when they proved every nay-sayer right, but still try to gaslight everyone to believe the exact opposite.

Yep, blame the fans instead of accepting criticism in order to learn how to better the series later on. That totally works everytime.

From the article: "When they got a call to return, McKay says they were told: “You need to go pitch the whole show - this is your shot. Pitch the entire thing to stay alive for the next round. All five seasons.” It was such a big ask on short notice, they briefly considered canceling the meeting. But the writers embarked on a marathon brainstorming session where they cracked what would become their show’s major storylines. “When that session of fevered creativity and inspiration ended, we had a moment of silence,” McKay recalls. “I looked at the board like: ‘That’s it, this is what the show wants to be.’ “ So, the showrunners admit in the article that they came up with their overall story arc, for all five seasons, in ONE creative session. No wonder it comes off as a hastily thrown together effort. It is exactly that-- a hastily thrown together, half-cocked, unrefined, rough draft. Even Tolkien took his first drafts and read them to his friends, the Inklings. He listened to their critiques and made changes. He took years to craft his stories. Stories that are thrown together in one speed -hopped night, seem like stories that are thrown together in one speed-hopped night. And they call us evil.

@Lock_Knight

Жыл бұрын

So... that time back in undergrad when I hammered out a paper over the weekend to turn in on Monday had more time put into it than this billion dollar Hindenburg? Holy crap...

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

Plus they never wrote anything good before anyway. ,

@roadsidebong6333

Жыл бұрын

Exactly my same thought and its obvious this shit was all conjoured up with a 12 pack of mt. Dew and a cbd vape in one night

@markmathisen3908

Жыл бұрын

@@roadsidebong6333 With THIS plot, I'm pretty sure crack was involved at several points. 😒

BEAUTIFULLY SAID!!! Not a word or comma would I change of yours. If only the writers could have had that much sense themselves.

Brilliantly said. I think you just spoke for a lot of us. Honestly, I found this the best essay you have written so far. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

the fact that many companies think that actively insulting the fans is a viable and acceptable decision honestly scares me to my core

@thehermit8618

Жыл бұрын

They not only want to blame us for their stupid actions and insult our taste and morals for not liking what they put out but also still want us to actively buy and interact with their products. Can you be any more conceited?

@Tangarisu

Жыл бұрын

@@Ass_of_Amalek do people often tell you, that you are a moron?

@lorddarthvader6289

Жыл бұрын

it started with Star wars and I didn't think it would continue but damn

@gertvanderstraaten6352

Жыл бұрын

Some say that's on purpose to generate publicity.

@TheMegaMangaMan

Жыл бұрын

@@gertvanderstraaten6352 but this makes them actively lose Money

It's interesting because in video games we've been seeing the same thing happening. Devs produce a bad, unfinished product, sell it at full price, and then blame it on the fans when it flops, calling us toxic and that if we don't like it we shouldn't buy it. We're in a media age of bad products and incompetent producers.

@frogmastiff8198

Жыл бұрын

exactly right, and its spreading

@zxyatiywariii8

Жыл бұрын

Thank God for hero leakers! I and many people I know, had all been excited about The Last of Us 2 until we saw the leaks. For weeks after that game came out, I loved seeing TLOU2 copies gather dust on my favorite store's shelves while Ghost of Tsushima kept selling out and the store had to keep reordering it. We can vote with our wallets and our views. That's why, even though we have Amazon Prime and I could watch RoP free, I only watch the YT channels I like rip it apart. Amazon is not getting my view, and I won't have to have that mess stuck in my memory.

@xxxpyrosxxx

Жыл бұрын

Please, not the devs, the publishers.

@jailbird1133

Жыл бұрын

Comics are the same way

@UrsahSolar

Жыл бұрын

A to the men!

One of the most clarifying reviews so far. You explain so much new information. Amazing and painfully true.

One of your best videos yet, JSG! Well done.

Blaming the audience is their go to because they could never believe or imagine that they are wrong.

I love that the racism/sexism argument seems to just vanish into ether because people criticizing the show just keep talking over it to scrutinize extensive continuity and congruity errors to the source material.

@phenel

Жыл бұрын

what do you think congruent means?

@Spengleman2

Жыл бұрын

@@phenel I think it means two figures of identical form, some people think it means aligned with or in harmony with. Either way I don’t really think there are continuity errors, the second age has a skeleton story that has plenty of room for interpretation, which is what the show is. Most criticisms I hear don’t really make sense, like in this video criticising the idea that the light of the valar can fade and be replaced by the silmarils through mithril. We know that Sauron is manipulating the elves at this point in time, anything they believe could well be a manipulation of Sauron to get them to further his goals (like obtaining large amounts of mithril). People who claim this is impossible are clearly not familiar with Tolkien’s writing. I think the reason some haters criticisms come across as covers for being mad that Jackson isn’t writing the dialogue and women are in Lord of the rings now is because frankly their criticisms frankly don’t make sense.

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

Sauron is not shown manipulating Celebrimbor. That doesn't make sense when he is shown later how he was manipulating him. That's not how an engaging story works, that's how childfen make things up while telling a story.

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

Plus: Celebrimbor is an Elv. He is supposed look young and gorgeous, not like an mid-aged 90s wall street guy.

@phenel

Жыл бұрын

@@Spengleman2 The criticisms are a result of the over-correction from the "cultural appropriation group". They say we shouldn't do certain things because it's ignorant of those cultures and an overall net negative to their identity. But, then they go and do the same thing by misrepresenting the source material, which is culturally based (Tolkien himself said as much), to fit ideals they personally carry. From my perspective, it's just hypocrisy in its purest form.

An inability for creators to take criticism- even constructively- is a problem not only with this show, and in the comics industry as you’ve touched on in your other videos, but something that seems to affect nearly all western media, but especially media made in the US. Whenever something isn’t received positively, or in a way that they didn’t anticipate, rather than reflecting on feedback and trying to understand where and why they failed, creators instead shift blame back onto the audience and critics, claiming the failure was from them not being open-minded enough.

@AJValentine-uc3pi

Жыл бұрын

Yupp. Narcissism at its finest. They should cancel the show and admit their mistakes instead of calling Tolkien fans 'fascists.'

@Schimml0rd

Жыл бұрын

Bro, the papers are getting paid to write this XD It's capitalism galore, everything is bought propaganda. Moral bankruptcy.

Epic video JSG! The fact that by now each and every ROP-related video of yours has dedicated trolls commenting is actually a good sign.

The customer is always right. Just like the Sea.

@kanthony776

Жыл бұрын

This made me laugh out loud.

People have every right to have an opinion, and know stuff. Fans know that too, and help keep any existing series' legacy going.

@spacedinosaur8733

Жыл бұрын

Exactly the fans are the ones who are going to keep the flame burning when the cameras are no longer filming, and the actors are complaining about their latest divorce. The fans keep the series alive with love, across the generations.

@paulmurgatroyd6372

Жыл бұрын

I'm amazed that JSG never breaks his cool. Most fans of Tolkein by now have gone off in an apoplectic rage at what is happening here. JSG is not angry, only disappointed.

@InfernosReaper

Жыл бұрын

when they market something specifically using a name, lore, and legacy, but don't deliver on that, they don't get to complain when people are mad about the bait & switch

Man, this was amazing coverage. Thank you.

That was really well thought out and executed. You earned my sub.

Homer, William Shakespear, Arthur Conan Doyle, Hans Christian Anderson, Jane Austen, and JRR Tolkein. A few legendary authors who will be remembered through out all history. These two guys will be forgotten by the end of the decade.

@Daemon__Sultan

Жыл бұрын

Well said.

@Dwellerinshadow

Жыл бұрын

End of the decade? I just watched this video and I've already forgotten their names ;p

@Zukoiu

Жыл бұрын

Don't be so generous, I'm sure I heard their names twice and I still couldn't even begin to point out what each of their names even start with. In short? Nobody cares about these morons even as an insult.

@josie_the_valkyrie

Жыл бұрын

Just as like the Wheel of Time showrunner. There was so much excitement for that series, but now nobody speaks of it.

@Kserijaro

Жыл бұрын

All known to write Asians and African main characters. Did you know that Sherlock Holmes was Mixed Race Black/Asian homosexual? And Watson was actually islamic paraplegic asexual planetoid? Just like Ariel was actrually Black, because living in the depths of the sea, you generate Anti-sun skin mechanics!

Futurama did it : - Is that a hobbit over there? - No, that's a hobo and a rabbit. But they're making a hobbit.

@MsLqaile

Жыл бұрын

🤣😂

Love your take on this, wish they would listen to your video and actually accept that this is how we all truly feel. Great video as always, thank you for them

I really love how you are straight up and tell it like it is, i also think you most definitely see the truth through the lies. you are a rare bread this day and age!

The fact this series is literally just a glorified Fan-Fiction is what really grinds my gears. Like if they had picked a part of Middle Earth history that was a blank slate to bastardize then that would be one thing, but no they had to choose one of the most epic points in the known Lore and then retcon it to write Fan-Fiction that is objectively a worse version of the original...

@clogs4956

Жыл бұрын

Fake fan fiction, please.

@sionnadehr3313

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure I've read (and written) better fanfiction.

@TheAmazingBoogeyMan

Жыл бұрын

This was my take, too. They could have made a LotR-adjacent story about the two blue wizards and their adventures in the East, and they could put whatever they wanted in it. They get to use Tolkien in name (which is what they did with this steaming pile or orc-crap) and not be bound by existing canon. I guess it just made too much sense to try that, though.

@wesleyhill7721

Жыл бұрын

No, it took too much talent to do that.

@kyotheman69

Жыл бұрын

why couldn't they make their own series, I'm sick of these activists taking beloved IP's and ruining them

To say it's Tolkien's Legacy in name only is dangerous. Cuz it manages to shit on that too.

This video has definitely given me a different perspective on the show, thankyou for the content!

I can feel where you're coming from. I'm black too and have been a fan of LotR forever. I never thought there should be more PoCs in the series and just enjoyed the films.

15:04 "....they claim to be fans of Tolkien's work, and maybe they are, but they definitely are not stewards of it..." Masterfully said. SALUTE!

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

Too bad JSG isn't a fan of Tolkien's work

@paulharris1141

Жыл бұрын

@@reek4062 did you have a nice cry, Amazon shiII? Also, JSG has said that he reads the books every year and he also puts things into detail in accordance with Tolkein's work. You are just mad because he is destroying The Rings of Power and calling it out.

@paulharris1141

Жыл бұрын

@@reek4062 JSG has shown that he has more knowledge about Tolkien's work than these two (in regards to what they did in The Rings of Power). The Rings of Power is an insult to Tolkien's work and sheep such as you are disgracing his work even further.

Remember when showrunners accepted legitimate criticism?? And companies didn't blame their consumers?? And weren't perpetually self absorbed and ACTUALLY by definition racist & bigoted?? Unlike they balme us to be??

@benjaminthibieroz4155

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile in japan there are authors who says "If you don't like it, I'll take full blame ". Happen to be far ahead in artistic value nowadays. Coincidence?

@jonathanpretty5031

Жыл бұрын

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

Narcicissts always project their own flaws and wrong doings at others and accusate them of being what they are.

@bakedturkeys2132

Жыл бұрын

I remember that. There was a flashfire of that back when the first Sonic Movie leaks got on the internet. Good times.

@Jestloo

Жыл бұрын

Last time I remember was the Sonic movie. I was so shocked that they actually listened and delayed the film to remake his model. I went to see the movie in theaters twice just to support it. But it was also clear that the people behind the Sonic movie were actual fans themselves.

I really appreciate your attention to detail in correcting the lore and pointing out facts about Tolkien's world. Kind of makes me excited to learn more about it!

You told me everything I needed to know when it was revealed that the writers were with "Bad Robot". That company *IS* Mordor in terms of what it does to the film/TV industry.

How poetic that the second age Tolkien wrote describes precicely what the "Showrunners tm" are doing: not being grateful for what they've been given and instead seek what they were never meant to have. They got Tolkien's world to work with, but not the right to change it. Now we see their Númenor sink because they tried to change things anyway.

@dizzyheads

Жыл бұрын

I didn't even think Rings of Power was from the same world and just some show that tried to be like "Lord of the rings" with a similar naming

It takes intellectual honesty to admit when you're wrong. Whether it's admitting the show is an affront to Tolkien's legacy, or admitting the media's narrative of that Florida bill is wrong.

@johnstrawb3521

Жыл бұрын

I doubt they have the intellect to understand how wrong they are. 4:57 - oh, god. this one of the most basic elements of creative writing. ---There is no conceivable critical framework that will eventually decide RoP is a good show. It's not possible.

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

The show is very Tolkienian

@kenton6804

Жыл бұрын

@@reek4062 I don't see the Catholicism, though perhaps, not being so myself, that has eluded me.

@jailbird1133

Жыл бұрын

@@kenton6804 it hasnt

@kenton6804

Жыл бұрын

@@jailbird1133 I assume you mean it hasn't any Catholicism? Your sentence is just a bit vague, just trying to understand what you exactly mean.

JSG, your commentary is, as always, we'll thought out and insightful. But this one is next level! I 100% agree with everything you said. Thank you for doing what you do. I salute you, sir.

Dude you nailed it. Well thought out and savage. Take my sub.

I’ve always appreciated that reviewers like you and the Critical Drinker give legit criticism of shows like this. Thanks JSG!

@kyotheman69

Жыл бұрын

should add Nerdotic to that, when comes to Tolkien he best insight

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

@@kyotheman69 He's also trash

@oldnerd7739

Жыл бұрын

@@kyotheman69 I dunno, JSG’s knowledge of the lore puts me to shame (but I do like Nerdotic too)

@zxyatiywariii8

Жыл бұрын

JSG is my favorite Tolkien expert; he's won my respect with his knowledge of the lore, which puts mine to shame. But one thing about real Tolkien fans, as opposed to Amazon's sycophants -- we love discussing details, and when we find out we were mistaken about something, we're happy to learn why. I admit when I was wrong about some Tolkien detail because I love learning more. That's the opposite of Rings of Power fans' narcissistic, _"We are always right, and if you disagree, you're just an Istaphobe."_

@jonathancummings6400

Жыл бұрын

They aren't any more legit than anyone else. They are as biased as those that like it, except they hate it. Even I'm more neutral than they are. I read Tolkien, it's entertaining fantasy. Neither he, nor are his works something holy that can be desecrated like so many are howling with fury about the Rings of Power. His works are no more than his near contemporary and student C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, which at least equals the Lord of the Rings, with it's giant plot holes, and necessarily mysteriously militarily incompetent at the right time Dark Lord that nonetheless everyone fears. Sauron's an idiot who starts a war when someone has finally found his ring instead of doing the smart thing and guarding all the entryways to Mordor and Mt Doom, and patiently wait for the Ringwraiths to succeed in their mission, maybe give them a few thousand orcs and dark animal allies, like the Evil birds and Wargs. Sooner or later the Ringbearer would have been cornered and taken down.

"A wizard did it." -- Amazon, after Rings of Power fails They will never acknowledge wrongdoing. They are too big to fail in their eyes. Any failure is someone else's fault, especially if it means blaming the fans for not watching.

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

Amazon isn't blaming the fans. It's blaming morons pretending to be LotR fans.

I love Just Some Guys Channel! You Rock!

Rhaenyra and Alicent are good examples of Strong women, with nuanced ethic choices, that still have to obey and play by the rules of the universe they belong.

@ad5047

Жыл бұрын

Yeah they make shitty choices, act cowardly and betray people trust. Because, well, unlike Galadriel, they are humans

Critical Drinker had the best idea and just called it quits after 6 episodes when he posted his review. It only makes sense. If a shows garbage 2/3's of the way in there's no way the last 3rd can save it and up until that point the show runners blame the fans for it sucking. Why give it any attention? I haven't

@JagdWehrwolf

Жыл бұрын

Stop it right now Young Man! Don't give JSG ideas like that. How will I know then how big of a disaster a finale of this will be...

@boomguitarjared

Жыл бұрын

This maykes me think of the concept, of intentionally making a very bad, dull, uninteresting show, around the same length so 7 or 8 episodes long, but then for the last episode make everything tie in together make sense ahnd be a glorious story overall that maykes the ultimate contrast with the rest of majority of the shows content.

@yourvenparianen5390

Жыл бұрын

I just wanna watch the next episode just out of sheer curiosity about how in the hell these characters survive that massive pyroclastic flow. Its literally impossible unless some magic bullshit happens

@tomyabo5606

Жыл бұрын

The fact that you watched any of it shows that they won and "the fans" lost. Ever hear "don't feed the troll"?

@joelpenley9791

Жыл бұрын

@@tomyabo5606 Amazon is not a troll, they are spending billions of dollar to ruin Tolkiens and spending more to publish propaganda to convince everyone they are being faithful to Tolkien. We need content like this from people who know the lore and can point out just how much they are going against it.

The Lore departure with Mithril is also retconning more lore than they have rights too. Mithril is found in Numenor and Valinor and Earendil has a whole ship made from it in the 1st age. Elendil also wears Mithril artefacts made in Numenor.

@newtpondskipper

Жыл бұрын

Shhhh, no bring facts into this show.

@halfkinrainbolt7041

Жыл бұрын

Curious where you got that info. In my companion encyclopedia, it says that Mithril "was to be found only in s single great lode beneath the peak of Caradhras, deep in the Mines of Moria." I do not recall mention of any ships made of it also. Care to share your source?

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@halfkinrainbolt7041 it is said "In middle earth, it is only found..." neither Valinor, nor Numenor are in middle earth. Ealendils ship however is told to be of birch wood and only shines in a silvery light, so don't know where that comes from

@tun0fun

Жыл бұрын

@@halfkinrainbolt7041 The Mithril in Numenor was in the form of the fillet made for The Elendilmir. It was originally forged for Silmariën in Numenor before 630SA (Her death). She also wore the Ring of Barahir. Aragorn carried both later in the 3rd age. In RotK, Tolkien describes the Citadel guards Helms as being made from Mithril and ancient heirlooms from Numenor but I couldn't find that online to cut and paste for you. It's in the chapter when Gandalf and Pippin arrive at Minas Tirith. The ship bit is from The Song of Eärendil. Fellowship of the Ring, p236. "A ship then new they built for him of Mithril and of elven-glass with shining prow; no shaven oar nor sail she bore on silver mast: the Silmaril as lantern light and banner bright with living flame to gleam thereon by Elbereth herself was set, who thither came and wings immortal made for him, and laid on him undying doom, to sail the shoreless skies and come behind the Sun and light of Moon."

@vincentphilippart4669

Жыл бұрын

@@tun0fun That extract suggest the ship Earendil took the the skies isn't Vingilot, the ship he built out of Birchwood in Arvernien, but a new ship built in Valinor. Meaning Valinor indeed has Mithril, though it could be an unreliable narrator situation (how could anyone in Middle Earth know what happned to Earendil in Valinor?)

You're a fuckin' wordsmith, brother. What a calm pleasure it is to listen to your analysis and critique. I just keep comin' back. Take care.

This guy is great, I was looking forward to this video.

Did you know non of the famous writers in history blamed audience for not liking their specific piece? Because anyone who did that faded from history.

@tunebeat3809

Жыл бұрын

That, alongside not being well-liked also.

@CarrotConsumer

Жыл бұрын

Have you ever actually looked into that or did you just assume it? That's a rhetorical question.

The ultimate failure of someone trying to make you hate them is to be apathetic towards them; they seek to make you rage at everything they are doing in order to blame your "toxicity" for why you're responding to them with anger, yet their tactics are made moot when you just don't care about anything they say or do.

@zxyatiywariii8

Жыл бұрын

True. I was furious about The Last Jedi, partly because I'd been foolish enough to pay for a ticket, and naïve enough to hope it would be good. But ever since then, I refuse to let these cultural vandals piss me off. Now, I ignore their products, and enjoy reviews like JSG's.

@Tempusverum

Жыл бұрын

Reveling in negative attention to gaslight and project, infuriated when ignored. Classic Narcissism

Just Some Guy, you are a true fighter for Light, Justice and Reason. Your videos are gold, and more important, are TRUE!! Thanks for the work you do. It's truly appreciated.

Standing ovation after this beautiful mic drop!

Ask yourselves, who are you not allowed to criticize?

@ColdHardTruthNews

Жыл бұрын

Also ask yourselves, "What are you not allowed to criticize?

@maekodaekal7744

Жыл бұрын

@@ColdHardTruthNews what indeed.

@felipe96ification

Жыл бұрын

My mom

For some reason the following quote about Sauron from the Silmarillion has been rattling around my head since I read this article. I think it sums up the mentality and problem of the writers and showrunners of ROP perfectly: But in after days he (Sauron) rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void. -J.R.R. Tolkien, Valaquenta, "Of the Enemies."

That Genocide line has gotten me. I know the character they created was low. But I never thought it was that low.

This show is what happens when you engineer a story. I've seen this in D&D games. We call it "railroading" when you make a specific set of events that the characters will ultimately have to fulfill. Whatever freedom they have is limited. Like we can't let Galadriel make better decisions appropriate for her character because that could lead her away from the path toward being seduced and betrayed by Halbrand which we put in the rough outline. We can't have Halbrand randomly die of infection because we know he has to become a Nazgul or whatever. But we'll go ahead and pretend like he's in mortal danger and hope the audience feels something. Here's another glaring one, why wouldn't Elendil refuse to accept his son's death without seeing it for himself? They were retreating, they could have spared him for a day or two. We didn't even get a line like "Berek, if you are truly bound to Isildur, go and find him! Whether dead or alive, bring my son back to me."

Even Tolkien himself has been questioned and criticized by his greatest fans. It’s part of the game. The very nature of fandom. But, remember. These people are the ones that were never told “no”. They were all given trophies their entire lives for poor to mediocre performances. Well, the world doesn’t work that way. So welcome to reality. And the reality of fantasy.

@Babidi111

Жыл бұрын

- I just worry that so many of those types are the ones who did go to University, and they are entering HR departments and taking spots of influences in the real world. You are right that the real world doesn't work the way they want, at least that it can't for long, but they will try until our culture is destroyed.

@CodeeXD

Жыл бұрын

Every day I curse the older generation for giving me and my peers participation trophies. They couldn't handle the idea their special baby isn't that special or not that good and they screwed most of our heads up forever because of it

@asarishepard8171

Жыл бұрын

I agree. When I was 10 my soccer team was in its way to regional we were doing So well. But we lost the regional game cause the other team was just better. They have to learn to accept that. Others will be better than you. Not winning that game and not going to state taught me that.

@asarishepard8171

Жыл бұрын

@@CodeeXD at least you realize it. when i was in school i did win an award, the perfect attendance cause i was never sick. not much but i did earn it.

@CodeeXD

Жыл бұрын

@@asarishepard8171 yeah same any participation award I would get in sports and stuff I'd just throw away. Like you gave our team an award for showing up and existing how pathetic

Who knew? I knew. You knew. Hell, practically everyone who was a true fan of Tolkien's legendarium, knew. Peter Jackson showed the world, how to do this, properly. Even with "The Hobbit", and Jackson was barely responsible for that, they STILL did a good job, and that is the problem. Had Jackson's films, never happened, there wouldn't be anything for the fans to point to, and say, "This is how it's done." Thank God for Peter Jackson.

@mosart7025

Жыл бұрын

Jackson was the first of the arrogant directors who thought they could write better than Tolkien! Yeah, the movies were beautiful, the music was awesome, but the script ruined the suspense and had characters doing things they would never do in the books. To open the movie with the huge battle and to show what happened to the ring and what it was, ruined the big reveal between Gandalf and Frodo. To know right up front that Gandalf fought Saruman and was his prisoner took away all the concern and worry about him not showing up to the Shire that we felt in reading the first half of the book. To have Aragorn "let" Frodo go off by himself or almost send him off (in the movie), would NEVER have happened. Aragorn would have gone with Frodo anywhere, except in the book Frodo snuck off and had quite the head start before Aragorn realized it. Then he had to decide whether to try and rescue Merry and Pippin, or follow Frodo. Yes the LOTR movies were quite a bit truer to the world of Tolkien, but don't let Peter Jackson off the hook too easily.

@adventussaxonum448

Жыл бұрын

@@mosart7025 Agree 100% However, the whole attempt did FEEL like it was set in Middle Earth, and looked like it too. I was annoyed by some of the changes, some cinematically reasonable, others not, but compared with this pile of manure.....

@VGJustice

Жыл бұрын

I think for some scenes I could point to Bakshi and say "this is how it's done". Even Jackson used Bakshi's version for inspiration.

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@mosart7025 you bring up fair points about the deviations PJ did in his movies, but to call him as arrogant as this showrunners is a bit much. He always was very humble in his interviews, constantly saying, they try their best and i believe that. He never proclaimed to do better than Tolkien. If you watched interviews and panels with the directors and actors of RoP, they always look like it was about time, someone changes Tolkien to the better, as if it was not Tolkiens original work, what built up that massive fan base and we fans cried bloody murder, becasue it was so old fashioned... This writers/directors talked about modernizing Tolkien and writing the book, Tolkien never did... well, we now see, how they are not shy to change almost every single character, Tolkien actually wrote about in a almost unrecognizable way, giving them convoluted motivations, no believable charater development and overall make them do things even normal folk wil find utterly stupid on a regular basis... So to sum it up: PJ's movies have major changes, some even not acceptable for me (Glorfindel written out, Army of the Dead at Pelennor, Frodo&Sam in Osgiliath...) but overall there was this Tolkien feeling of his world. This show lacks on all fronts with the exception of the panorama shots, because New Zealand still just is awesome to see. No feeling for the world, the characters and formost for the unbelievable plots they try to shove down our throats, so we can't callthem out for that.

@futilelamp4188

Жыл бұрын

There would be the book's.

Fantastic yet again, thank you

Masterfully put bro, thanks

If they wanted diversity so much they should have just told the story of the Blue Wizards.

The characters you write can only be as smart or interesting as you. But beyond that, looking at every character in the show, it really is an indictment of the morality and character of those who are running and writing it, when every "Hero" they write is either a coward (Elrond), duplicitous (Gil-Galad), or just a straight up evil sociopath (Galadriel). It's no wonder that they treat Tolkien's life work as if it owes them something.

@benjaminthibieroz4155

Жыл бұрын

You can write characters smarter and more interesting than you, since you have time to craft every moment. However as you say, what you depict as good can never exceed your own moral ideal.

@kateshiningdeer3334

Жыл бұрын

As Benjamin Thibieroz said, you can write a character smarter than you are, especially if you do your research and get help from experts in the field. This is part of what makes some books objectively better than others in the same field.

@CordeliaWagner

Жыл бұрын

The writers make the villain a compassionate person who wants freedom, safety and a home for his people and the hero threats him with genocide, killing all those who he cares for in front of his eyes. I think that's how Narcicissts and Sociopaths percieve the world. That's how they would tell a story. Reminds me of Hitler wanting to kill all Jews and telling his fellow Nazis that he is right and they are the good ones. Creepy as fudge!!! I give Galadriel the byname "Hitlerina the tempest".

@sillypuppy5940

Жыл бұрын

No, although I hear it all the time, that first statement is wrong. It's as if the writers of Amadeus had to be as good or better composers than Mozart. They almost certainly weren't, so they did something that is very strange these days - they researched, and thought about what they were doing.

@talithakoum3922

Жыл бұрын

You can write a character who's book-smarter or better informed than you. But if you have no self-awareness or common sense, your characters can't either.

I said that before and will repeat it. JSG you are the best!

You have compiled a very well thought review with sources and valid points. Thanks you! I could only hope the show runners could take their head out of their rear and hear something like this to show them what needs to be fixed.

They did "fan baiting" technique down to the book. The predictability goes off the chart with these corporates.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623

Жыл бұрын

They weaponize racism and use minorities to do so for their corporate gain. And we are supposedly the bad ones.

@stefanol7814

Жыл бұрын

Spot on!

The downfall always start with " it's everyone's else fault, we r perfect"

Production is the phase between "I think this might be a script" and "Why are the fans angry, again?"

I like that you think for yourself and aren't afraid to call out the BS. Mad respect.

I heard "you've been writing for ten years" and said aloud "only ten?" Seriously, I've been writing since elementary school. I haven't published a novel yet, but that's because I'm trying to identify weaknesses in my writing so the final draft of my first book is a work of art. Such hubris to think you can write Tolkien better than Tolkien, and not even have a successful work under your wing.

@Syaniiti

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't it something like 17 years for the Lord of the Rings?

@SammaclauseGamgee

Жыл бұрын

@@Syaniiti I'm not sure. I can definitely say these writers haven't experienced real hardship, either in real life or through fiction. I learned a lot just by reading and watching, then thinking. The things I wrote as writing exercises, admittedly, in the form of fan fiction had higher stakes, more relatable characters, etc...but I still would not say they're canon, aside from my rewrite of Star Wars Episode 1 because...honestly? It's my head canon. Didn't change anything of the real story aside from fleshing things out a bit, really.

@Syaniiti

Жыл бұрын

The point was mostly that the showrunners think themselves that much better than Tolkien.

@bunnywithakeyboard7628

Жыл бұрын

You will never stop learning. You will never stop getting better. It’s time to try to put something out and see how far you can get. It’s hard to know your own flaws without someone else pointing them out.

@Syaniiti

Жыл бұрын

@@bunnywithakeyboard7628 Dang you're one literate bunny.

But then they will have to make a good show.

@Don-ds3dy

Жыл бұрын

I have a theory perhaps there's some kind of financial scheme going on, like maybe insurance fraud or money laundering, the show doesn't look like a multi billion dollar project! Jeff literally hired people who had no qualifications, fired everyone who complained, hired non-fans, etc.

@samiahmed117

Жыл бұрын

It's currently the highest streaming weekly episodic show according to Nielsen. Why should they change to get lower numbers?

@jasonthegreat7999

Жыл бұрын

@@samiahmed117 Most people are hate watching it. If they want the criticism to go away, make a better show.

@samiahmed117

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonthegreat7999 Hate-watching is still watching. Adding to streaming and viewing figures for Amazon's show. That's self defeating. It's like dining at the same restaurant every week even though you hate the food. Irrational.

@Syaniiti

Жыл бұрын

I hate watched the Wheel of Time but I could only barely get through the first episode of RoP. I do not have Prime. A friend of mine does but then he can barely leave his house.

I have a one up! "IF you want people to like your show, write a good show!"

Very well put!! These clowns may have read Tolkien comic books, if they exist, but do not understand Tolkien and they certainly are not writers!