"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love, but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros, betray the fact that they have never had a friend." -C.S. Lewis.

@Ahabite

2 жыл бұрын

Well chosen!

@hamonryechinaski180

2 жыл бұрын

Great quote! Thanks

@piotrd.4850

2 жыл бұрын

I think they both had Palantir or something.

@xianartman

2 жыл бұрын

Appropriate to have a quote from JRRT’s friend and writing buddy.

@dunringill1747

2 жыл бұрын

The perfect quote here.

There's no such thing as platonic love nowadays. Everything is about sex.

@georgecisneros5281

2 жыл бұрын

Except sex! Sex is about power.😉

@daryatislenko4651

2 жыл бұрын

Tell me about. It's hard to enjoy good friendships in stories when every fandom makes it gay. That's why I just read/watch and never search for fanarts.

@fat_2627

2 жыл бұрын

The Left has created a generation of broken people with no real friends.

@TheKing-qz9wd

2 жыл бұрын

@@fat_2627 That might explain the suicide rate.

@memesarekeem

2 жыл бұрын

@@fat_2627 Arguably, the right has created a generation of hyper-conservatives with no real friends. It's the same difference.

Gimli: “Never thought I’d die fighting side by side with an Elf.” Legolas: “What about fighting side by side with a friend?” Idiots: “U R Gae.”

Dean: "They do know we're brothers right?" Sam: "Doesn't seem to matter." Supernatural S4E18

@darthwolfX2

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a little lost here

@newtpondskipper

2 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment.

@mysticloverfairy1

2 жыл бұрын

@@darthwolfX2 It's from an episode of Supernatural where Sam and Dean find out that there's fanfiction written about them and people ship Sam and Dean despite them being brothers .

Remember when Sam and Frodo think they're going to die and Sam, unprompted tells Frodo he wished he'd married Rosie? Totally what gay men do. I think Tolkien's friend CS Lewis said it best. It's remarkably immature for people to assume that any close friends must be sexually charged.

@bemotivated8443

2 жыл бұрын

CS Lewis was a good man

@endless3cho

2 жыл бұрын

@@bemotivated8443 indeed.

@professionalcynic3836

2 жыл бұрын

Good way of putting it

@TheKing-qz9wd

2 жыл бұрын

Possibly the single most relatable thing short of some young man saying "mama" when his life flashes before his eyes.

@samuelhunter4631

2 жыл бұрын

Word

Two guys together: They aren't friends, they are lovers. A guy and a gal together: They aren't lovers, they are friends. Welcome to the wokezone and the friendzone.

@TeamOneDay

2 жыл бұрын

The second part is a bit too common for me unfortunately.

@rejoyy

2 жыл бұрын

@@TeamOneDay how to get out of the friendzone: "FLY, YOU FOOLS!"

@TeamOneDay

2 жыл бұрын

@@rejoyy I have to tell people that as the balrog-I mean friendzone drags me down that chasm.

@rejoyy

2 жыл бұрын

@@TeamOneDay it's a tough fight and the old man dies but then you are rewarded with being reborn a new man: the white wizard with more power and authority.

@TeamOneDay

2 жыл бұрын

@@rejoyy "I'm going to make it bros."

As a gay man, THANK YOU!!!!! I’m so sick of this making straight characters gay, or men who have a bond are lovers, or that two gay men can only be lovers. THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!!!

@alexfriedman918

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it’s not just the denial of same sex friendships that’s infuriating. It’s the often heard Twitter mob assumption that 2 gay men or 2 lesbians cannot be friends without banging! To be fair, I’ve also always been annoyed by people who claimed that a man and a woman cannot be “just” friends…

Funny how these types of “journalists” act like the stereotypical meat heads of the 80s that would call every other man gay that showed friendship towards another lol.

@cainabel6356

2 жыл бұрын

Why can't these media organizations just go out businesses like other bad business would? How are they staying open?

@derpherp1810

2 жыл бұрын

@@cainabel6356 One word, power.

@gwicks

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It's the same kind of prejudice and judgment, except wearing a politically correct mask. A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf!

Friendly reminder: *If Tolkien didn't explicitly write it, then it's not canon and can be safely ignored.* Second friendly reminder: The Fellowship of the Ring *is a FRATERNITY.* Men CAN have close personal relationships with each other without any desire to spit shine each other's orifices.

@SergioLeonardoCornejo

2 жыл бұрын

And this os why now authors must preemptively gatekeep the activists.

@tobiasthesecond5605

2 жыл бұрын

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo "Activists" aren't people, but robots made of meat.

@SergioLeonardoCornejo

2 жыл бұрын

@@tobiasthesecond5605 I agree.

@AllardRT

2 жыл бұрын

@TheProphetOfHate I think he meant "fraternity" in broader terms, not the US college fraternities specifically.

@daivahataka

2 жыл бұрын

I believe the marines say "mud is thicker than blood" so the idea that a group that go on a grand quest, against the supreme evil and fight many massive battles, losing some of their group along the way, would form a close bond should not be that hard to fathom. Do these people think the trenches of WWII were one big gay orgy? 🤦‍♂️

For years: "it's a shame guys can't be honest with their feelings. they can't cry in public or show affection towards other males." Now this.

@TeamOneDay

2 жыл бұрын

"Guys can be emotional and affectionate." *Does exactly that.* "Yeah he's gay."

@Launchpad05

2 жыл бұрын

I remember a TBS promo for 'Lord Of The Rings' that uses Atlantic Star's 'Secret Lover' in the background. Proof that people in the media don't understand Tolkien's writing, and characterizations.

@Gotz_the_iron_hand

2 жыл бұрын

It was always a trap. They want you to show weakness so they can attack you. It's the constant mo of the left.

@aredjayc2858

2 жыл бұрын

Have Male friends, you're gay Have only Female friends, you're a horndog You can't win

@dbsommers1

2 жыл бұрын

@@aredjayc2858 And now you've figured out how they rigged the game.

"You remember that awesome movie in the early 2000s about two gay guys on a mountain?" "You mean Lord of the...." "NO Brokeback Mountain! The actual gay movie!!" To think a joke made by edgy teens became the reality to these people....

@davidschmidt9339

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent

@Kiyoone

2 жыл бұрын

A story about two cowboys that went to camp... tragic end tho.

kissed my best friend’s forehead when we won a championship game. These ppl are stretching further than elastigirl.

LGBT writers: I wish people would stop trying to portray us as hypersexual nymphomaniacs Also LGBT writers: Ok so here's my dissertation on why every instance to ever occur of 2 men making physical contact means they were banging

@seanp8220

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought the escape from the balrog at the bridge of Moria needed more bumming.

@nodiggity9472

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanp8220 And certainly a lot more lube.

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

Nailed it.

@ToddKeck98

2 жыл бұрын

They do the same logic with rape. Out of thin air, touching is rape. Mind = Blown

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

@@ToddKeck98 I know....it's breathtaking to watch.

When your sexuality is so much of your personality that you don’t know how friendships work

@andrewcarlton6196

2 жыл бұрын

Thay is most LBGT community

@mr_indie_fan

2 жыл бұрын

alphabet mafia in a nutshell.

One thing I want to add is Tolkien did NOT like Allegory, meaning he definitely wouldn't have coded homosexuality in his writings or anything subtle in his writings to represent something.

@arklytte

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Tolkien was NOT subtle on those rare occasions that we talked about physical/sexual relationships. He would wax quite eloquent about two character's love for/attraction to one another If he didn't *explicitly* state it, it didn't happen.

@TallisKeeton

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris-vs6ll Some explanation is in order :) 1. There are at least 4 marriages in LOTR : Aragorn and Arwen, Faramir and Eowyn, Eomer and Lothiriel, Rosie and Sam. 2. Tolkien didnt wrote a sex scene for Aragorn or for any other person in any of his books. His heroes got romances and marriages but the scenes of intimacy between them were never explicite and there was never any literary sex scene. Maybe becouse he deemed his fairytales and myths as a reading for both adults and children. 3. Tolkien's elves were not effeminate you mistaken them for Jackson's elves. :) Tolkien's eleves were more similar to muscular angels from Leonardo's paitings than to those anorectic personages from the movies :) 4. Sam is a servant, but he is not gay. He was married at the end of the book and got 12 children. And being a servant for a noble hero in Tolkien's books is a noble vocation also not smt wrong. 5. I also very much like many different genres of fanfics and I dont mind fanfics with slash pairings or other not-canonical pairings but these are only fanfics not the original books. I hope this helped :)

@TallisKeeton

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris-vs6ll what we got from the movies or rather what you interpreted from the movies and thats ok if you want to see the movies as full of non-canonical, fanfiction-like pairings but please dont mistake your personal intepretations of the movies adaptations with the adaptated books actual facts. And the things I wrote in my 1 post were facts from the books. :) I dont care how others would like to interprete any relationships from these movies. I also read a bit of post-movies fanfics about non-canonical pairings. But usualy I dont search for any kind of ff with any kind of romances, I would prefer the ff in the genres of mystery, political intrigues, mistical topics and adventures and family - friendly fanfics with hobbits and their kids. But books are another topic. We must remember that there are interpretations fueled by Tolkien's writings and opinions and there are our own fan's interpretations, which dont have to be the same as the author's opinions. But there always will be the knowledge what the authors interpretations should be like. I can have my head-canon of couse, but thats only be my head - canon, not what I would like to insert into Tolkien's (or any other author's) writings, letters, opinions, Tolkien as religious author believed that on the Light's side theres room only for relationships of marriage-kind and of hetero-kind and any other sexual relations as he wrote about in his letters is seen as smt which - in his literary world - would be existing only "in the Shadow" as smt unnatural and as a tool of Dark forces. Of couse thats not how I see the not-hetero relations. One of my fav fanfic series was about a treesome of Sam, Rosie and Frodo. And its beutifuly written series of ff - not only erotical but mostly about their daily lifes after war, with their children and Rosie and Sam care for ill Frodo. Its good sweet and lovely stories. But however I see the non-canonical relations (like slash pairings) or however Tolkien seen them, there is not a speck of a hint of not-hetero romance in any of Tolkiens books. Ian McKellen is gay so what? He played Gandalf the Grey the eternal wizard. He didnt inserted his own preferences in this role. And btw Gandalf is not even mortal and human so his sexuality means nothing to anything :) He is basicaly a kind of angel (Maiar) send by gods (Valars) to help with the fight against the dark lord Sauron. his kind - Maiars were usualy chosing their bodies into which they liked to descend into - bodies of guys or of ladies. But their sexuality was the least of their problems :) And only one of the ladies of this angelic kind - queen Melian - got an elven king as her husband and got kid with him. So yes, they can produce children if they like but most of their kind is occupied with this or that mission for their bosses the Valars. Mortenssen and Boyd kissed yes, but it was a joke. Both actors got wifes and kids. "There are a lot of intersexual kinds of themes in the story," no, actualy there were only 4 marriages in the book : Aragorn and Arwen, Faramir and Eowyn, Eomer and Lothiriel and Sam and Rosie. And the marriages (and kids) of Merry and Pippin were mentioned also at the end of the book. In the movie we got 2 weddings scenes Aragorn's wedding and Sam's wedding and 3 wedding - Faramir's on its way as the watcher can assume. We get that its nordic inspired, and inspired by some historical timelines, but it has to be inspired by more then that, those are broad strokes As far as I know there are much more than mythological nordic inspiration to Tolkiens writings, theres also tons of christianity inspirations and there are some questions with the gnostic undertones also. But I never heard about any "historical timeliens" as most of books events were not supposed to mirrored any historical events. Maybe with the exclusion of Battle of Cathalaunian Fields from 451 with Visigoths army charging on Hunnic army (which could be inspiration of Rohan's charge on elephants) :) what does it mean : "interchange of gender identity"? I think that if Tolkien was bisexual he could have wrote it in his letters but maybe not as this kind of matters in his times were mostly personal and nothing to show off. He got wife and 4 kids btw :) "Lets say bisexual, gender nonconformist, something, if you believe in writing a book about politics you care about them, or culture, societal somethings" I tried but I simply dont have a clue what this statement could have meant :) Can you rearrange it somewhat for more clarity? :) I assure you I care about culture. Tolkien is for us, his fans "an Ark of culture". And Tolkien's books as any other literature (as other art like sculpture or architecture or music or paintings) is part of our heritage. Cultural heritage. First its a heritage of English language, then it is also kid of heritage of European mythology, then it is humanity's literatures heritage :) So for me theres no problem with writing, reading and debating and liking fanfictions about lets say romances of Frodo and Sam or Frodo and Rosie or whatever. But for me there is problem with inserting any of our different personal (non-canon) interpretations into original works of an author and stating that is what he was thinking about his work and that is how the work should be interpreted by everyone. Warm Greetings from fan of fanfictions :)

@TallisKeeton

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris-vs6ll p. 1 > Thanks again for your response very detailed You are welcome 😊 > What im aiming to debate is the inspiration for the characters of the > book, in terms of their personality I think that every possible inspiration of Tolkien for personalities of his heroes can be traced down in his letters and other of his writings. Many things were explained there. But I dont think their sexuality was explained in his writings beside the fact about stating who was married to whom or smt like this. > Writing a character is different then giving them a set of beliefs I guess that writing a charachter is smt of bigger scope than only giving a charachter a set of beliefs. But inevitable is that making a charachter with this or that kind of believes developes this charachter into more profound personage. > to me, I believe in Christianity lets say in Jesus and one true god, that > might give insight into my world view but in my opinion it lacks nuance Sorry, I dont understand this statement. 😊 I think that if someone is religious his life could be eventualy developed in more profound ways. Becouse such person could be able to see bigger picture. But of course not everyone could be able to use their religion to such effects. Most ppl even being religious dont get the simple idea that a religion means a tool to enhance their development. And if some author (not only Tolkien but any other author) gave parts of their own believes to their literary charachters thats also could be developing this charachters to be more profound and realistic. A writer can got some ideas in his own life but at the same time he can be writing about entirely different ideas. For example a profesional author can be for example atheist but can also developing a charachter or a story about religions or being religious person such author can also write a story about atheism. But I think that its normal and usual that writers usualy write about the same ideas they find important to themselves. Thats the main value in writing stories - to share our own ideas 😊 But focusing upon only one and not the most important (as LOTR is not a book about sexuality at all) but rather the least important (if important at all) aspect of a literary charachter well, yes that could be belittling such charachters and the meanings of their story. And the stories in Tolkien’s books are even more important than the personages of the heroes in Tolkien’s books becouse the story is that from what those personages emerge into becoming better. As many of storylines of Tolkiens heroes are actualy the stories of developing that which is simple and of ennoblement that which is simple. Its only during the harsh story the heroes developed their virtues. Becouse Tolkien’s books are not about sexuality or other daily life’s problems these books are about being schooled to a developent of virtues. 😊 > Now take sexuality, if I wrote Sam to be homosexual we might > understand his more agreeable nature, He was not homosexual of course but his agreeable nature could have its source in other things. If someone likes searching for a psychology of a literary charachters which is not very important in the case of Tolkiens heroes becouse Tolkiens books are not psychological books they are adventures books and fairytales and myths and as such dont need very complicated psychology of his charachters. But I guess that Sam's agreeable nature comes from 3 different topics and not one of them has anything to do with his orientation : First source could be that he is a gardener and for someone to be talented as a gardener needs also to be patient and gentle person. Second source is that he was the youngest brother and fifth of six children of rather poorer family. And the third is that he is a servant. And if you see in him agreeable nature you must also remember that such ageeable nature has also a limit. When it comes to protecting Frodo from the dangers around or protecting the Mission even against Frodo himself Sam's agreeable nature ends 😊 Sam is not unduly agreeable. He stood against the will of Lord Elrond, he stood against the decisions of Frodo, he stood against the decision of Prince Faramir, he stood against Shelob, and at the last he withstood (even though for a short moment) the power of the Ring. And I think that projecting our own sexuality or our own other personal features (job, talents, family, illness, political ideas, religions, fitness, social standing, interests) onto literary charachters (esp the mythical and not realistic charachters) and then trying to explain their own features as coming from this source of our own projection is not proper sensmaking of a story and of a hero. 😊 We should accept that a literary charachter is someone different from us (for example Sam is not gay. And for example Frodo was not married even though we liked to see him married at the happy ending, but thats only our wishes becouse we would liked to see him happy, but of course we accept the tragic ending that he should be this hero who belongs to otherworld of paradisal award, not to this "happy life award" of Sam - with wife and kids) and we should from this base try to understand his story, his experiences, his difficulties, his values, his virtues and his vines and wrongs becouse telling stories is all about showing different lifes, experiences and personages - different than we are. 😊 Thats internal diversity of stories - that the stories are different that our lifes. Thats all about developing our own lifes and experiences by figuring out the differences and the similarities also between a literary hero and our personal lifes. You can interpret Samwise as homosexual if you so much like it but thats only the kind of interpretation which will do nothing in the area of explaning better books Samwise’s personage. Becouse homosexuality is not one of his features so it cannot explain nothing about his life and personality. But if you (or anyone) want to interprete a literary charachter (Sam’s or any other) they should begun with composing all of real details of his story - from all of the writings of his author - and then make some conclusions about him...

@TallisKeeton

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris-vs6ll p.2 > What do we know about the LotRs characters and their faith, I think that main explanaition of connection between Tolkien’s religion and the religion of his heroes Tolkien gave in his letters. I recomend reading these letters becouse there is short explanation about religion in the life of Tolkiens heroes. Im ME there is no institutional religion and every kind of institutional cult was eventualy becoming a cult of evil powers and his heroes dont go to any sanctuaries and such things even though they celebrate merry festivities of natural order of seasons. But some of the heroes led their lifes in dedication to higher spiritual values. And thats why his heroes are inspirational to the readers 😊 For example as Tolkien said in one of his letters „Frodo sacrificed himself out of love”. So you see we dont need to know what was his orientation to love him 😊 And btw Frodo also was hetero becouse in Tolkiens letters there is suggestion that Pearl oldest sister of Pippin was at some point a person about whom the Shire thought of as to be Frodo's future fiance. > what do we know about how each sees the world? We know some of their worldviews from their dialogues in the book. 😊 > They're all painted as fairly naive to one thing or another Please explain why they are naive? I dont think that people who were trying to save their world from eternal slavery - even with the costs of their lifes - are naive 😊 > its fairly broad who they are outside of personally defining reactions to > circumstance I m sorry I dont understand this statement. Do you mean that „off the screen”, „off camera” when we see their reactions to official story events, they got maybe more of their personalities? Of course, I m sure that Tolkien’s heroes can be seen as such. And I m sure of it becouse I was avid reader of fanfictions for about 20 years now so I know that Tolkiens books are such great source of topics for the developments of his charachters that every fanfic author can find something in them that could be developed in a fanfic 😊 For example I love how one of my fav fanfics writer has developed some topics of Frodo’s life (from the book) making him even more educated and wise than he was at the end of the book. I love fanfics about wise, educated and diplomatic Frodo 😊 Maybe I like this kind of fanfics also becouse I know what Tolkien said in some of his letters. Tolkien described Frodo as „idealist, poet and scholar”. So you see I dont need projecting my own personal life into my beloved charachter’s life to explain his life and actions, I just agree about what his author said about him and go along Tolkien's own descriptions in my own interpretations of Frodo. I dont need the projection that Frodo was for example a woman as I m, and I dont need the projection that Frodo was for example not a hobbit but a human as I m, and I dont need the projection that Frodo was anything as I m. I dont need it to feel the conection with him and to be inspired by his deeds and words. Thats why I dont think other people need projections of their own personal believes or issues or orientations to feel the connections to some of the heroes of Tolkiens books. > If their sexualities remained as unexplored in the books as their world > views perhaps they are a reflection of the writer instead Their worldviews were very much explained in the book. How their worldviews could not be harshly depicted in the book if the heroes were strictly on the one side of a world war? 😊 And as to their sexualities unexplored - and why do they need to be explored in his books? Well, theres tons of books about exploring sexualities or exploring other personal topics. Tolkien’s books are not about such topics. If you want to explore them read those other books As Terry Pratchett once said „things which are personal and things which are important are not the same things” 😊 Tolkiens books are not about personal life they are about other things which usualy are not personal. > The most all knowing character is played by Ian, the only homosexual > man in the films So what? And the most noble charachters Frodo and Sam are played by heterosexual actors - and so what? And all the Dark lords are played by actors who got their own orientations in their lifes - so what? What this has to do with anything? I m sure Peter Jackson didnt chose his actors becouse of their orientations or other personal matters but becouse of their talent and their visual similarity to their heroes. > Gandalf is the only one portrayed in the books to know the world and > himself well enough to find his sexuality Did not you read my first post about Gandalf? Gandalf has no sexuality as mortals do he is an angelic being. These beings chose their bodies they are not born in their bodies like we do. So they dont need to have a particular sexuality becouse they do not need to have children as mortals need them to left some descendants after our death. Nothing in Gandalf's story is about „finding his sexuality”. Many of the heroes know themselves well before the quest - for example Aragorn (and Aragorn from the book is much different from the one from the movie) or become educated about themselves during the quest for example Frodo and Sam. All this book is practicaly a bildungsroman 😊 So its only natural for them to become more knowledgable about their own virtues and vices. > Conclusion, the characters stop being written like real people by the > end of the books and become catholic characters to fit Tolkien > sensibilities They are not catholics and I guess they are not even „catholic characters” becouse all of this Tolkien's universum is a world set much before the events of evangelic tales. But Tolkien's heroes were reasonable called "virtuous pagans". Its a world long before the events of christianic salvation tale but a world which is spiritualy waiting for this. Becouse in Tolkien's "theory of literature" or "theory of fairytale" the ultimate sense of writing myths and fairytales lays in these stories being echoes of christianic salvation story. And if they were even written as such "catholic characters" well, thats the only right of an author to write his heroes however he liked. Thats the main difference between an author of a story and its reader - an author can make the heroes whoever he liked them to be but the reader should listen to the author’s decision before such reader starts to insert his own topics in a book esp. the topics which are opposite the opinions of the author 😊 Its fairytale and becouse of it most charachters are not need to be written like „real people” becouse that would be useless in the terms of myths and fairytales. And we love to read books about „real people” too we just accept this kind of writing as it is 😊 They are written as quest heroes of fairytales and myths and that is why for many decades Tolkiens heroes were constantly criticised for not being „psychologicaly real” and not being written like „normal people”. If I like to see "normal people" I watch a TV series. And if the critics want to read about normal people and psychologicaly more complicated heroes they should just go and read other genres becouse thats where they would find what they dont find in Middle Earth. I also like realistic novels abount psychological complex personages you know, its just that realistic novels never will give you the things which you will find in a fairytale and in a myth - a spiritualy profound ethical quest for development of consciousness 😊 Practicaly its Anabasis. > If that's so they might have been written like homosexual characters > from the beginning, when they were written to portray real people with > a fleshed out personality They are not written with fleshed out personalities becouse thats not the genre in which you need to write them as such 😊 Warm Greetings :)

"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend." - C.S. Lewis

The fact that they interpret the act of a good friend trying to comfort and help a friend who is in the process of slowly losing his mind in a sexual way is downright disturbed. That would be tantamount to pressuring someone not in control of their faculties to sex. Oh wait, to them "it's okay if it's gay"

@TheKing-qz9wd

2 жыл бұрын

@@revolverswitch These might be the kind of people who'd force you down if you befriended them, somehow.

@MrGrimjaw

2 жыл бұрын

I agree the ring corrupting frodo's mind Sam wanting to screw him in that is disturbing and screwed up

Men can't have anything these days. Not even, god forbid, friends.

@vespenegas261

2 жыл бұрын

Come on now. I wouldn't take them rеtаrded сunts seriously unless it was enforced by law... Oh wait...

@elgatochurro

2 жыл бұрын

Men, living platonically with other men, is good for their mental and physical health apparently... But was called misogyny because the women were shown to cause stress and damage mental and physical health

@vespenegas261

2 жыл бұрын

@@elgatochurro Ah yes. That ISS insident.

@elgatochurro

2 жыл бұрын

@@vespenegas261 was hilarious, and insightful

@NRPax

2 жыл бұрын

That's because friends make men happy. That's why they want it destroyed.

It’s really disturbing how in the name of enlightenment, these people view any friendship between people of the same sex as inherently a mask for sexual desire. If this is how they see all such relationships, I would be nervous to be friends with them. It’s approaching predatory to think anyone who enjoys your company is inherently down to clown.

@berilsevvalbekret772

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's less that and more they just want to see their favorute characters kiss.

They have never had a deep relationship with another person, so they can only relate things to the only thing they understand: Lust.

Woke Tolkien Society: What are you, his lover? Sam: No, his gardener.

@salomaonplanetsaturn674

2 жыл бұрын

They will say Frodo is elitist person with housekeeper and servant. "Break patriarch rule " - woke middle class students 👏

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

@sparking023

2 жыл бұрын

What concerns me is that it only opens up for even more questionable kinky shit. Yes, I'm kink shaming you, the BDSM enthusiast. You can do that spanking and dom/sub play all you want and if everyone consents that's cool, but it is still *weird as hell*

@TheGreenTaco999

2 жыл бұрын

@@sparking023 imagine kinkshaming and not realizing how many kinky people don't want you to stop ;). Also Imagine kinky people not thinking of it as weird themselves, lmao

Can these people realize that dudes can be bros? Not everything needs to be in a relationship. And Sam was married to Rose, a female hobbit

@bemotivated8443

2 жыл бұрын

There’s a difference between being close friends and gay

@sertorrhenclegane

2 жыл бұрын

I think romance would be the better word. A friendship is a relationship, just a platonic one.

@devinthompson7143

2 жыл бұрын

@@sertorrhenclegane id say they are almost brothers due to how close they are

@viscountrainbows6452

2 жыл бұрын

And conversely that women can dress a little more on the "manly" side and still be straight and like being women?

@jonathonfrazier6622

2 жыл бұрын

@LTNetjak Maybe. But Bilbo remained a bachelor as well.

Shippers typically don't understand friendship. They confuse every friendship with a sexual relationship. This is probably a consequence of something going wrong psychologically, kind of like how some people don't feel shame, and some find empathy difficult to attain. In this case, the assumption is that every friendship is a concealed sexual interest, because these people don't have a concept of friendship. They are blind to friendship, they can't see it. As a side note, maybe Freud had this type of characteristic, and that's why he believed that sexual interest was the basis of most relationships.

@PolarizedMechs

2 жыл бұрын

The fanatic ones are lonely, desperately so. They want to believe that someday, someone will be like that for them. You can tell these people from the casual shippers who just get a laugh out of it--they're the ones who go utterly berserk if you dare suggest that Ruby and Weiss are just good friends, or Sesshoumaru wouldn't give Kagome the time of day.

@kitalalaris

2 жыл бұрын

@@PolarizedMechs Have you met the incest shippers yet? (Sesshoumaru/Inuyasha specifically) (I spent too much time on tumblr as a teen, send help)

@kitalalaris

2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnDoe-vw4zf That's incredibly disgusting. And yes, I'm aware of them. I wish I wasn't.

@enigmaodell6806

2 жыл бұрын

"Someone who can only see friendship as a disguise or elaboration of Eros reveal to the world they have never had a friend."- C.S. Lewis

@mgh7634

2 жыл бұрын

Most shippers are just memeing or they're desperately lonely/horny/immature teenagers who are imposing their urges and frustrations on whatever fiction they like involving a couple of characters they find attractive and think would look good together. Doesn't even have to be a couple of friends. They can be bitter enemies who legitimately hate each other, or it can literally be a parent and child, and shippers will twist it to be some kind of weird romance. Been around since the early days of fanfiction.net with all the Cloud/Sephiroth and Kain/Raziel fics. Look, I can get behind an odd pairing, but good lord it's got to at least make sense for the characters involved and be supported or at least not discouraged by the fiction in question. Sam and Frodo are not, have never, and will never be a thing, no matter how much twisting one tries to do. To force it is to literally change both characters into something they're not, and at that point, you may as well just be writing your own characters. If I'm in some fanfiction-reading mood, I certainly am not going to feel compelled to even give such a fic a chance because right away, you're asking I bend my suspension of disbelief to breaking before I've even started. Unless I'm looking for deliberately absurd parody.

Frodo and Sam were so attracted to each other that the first thing Sam did when he got back was make a move on Rosie and marry her.

"THOSE WHO CANNOT conceive of friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a friend." -C.S. Lewis

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

So in short, that's just plain grooming? :/

@siegfriedarmory6271

2 жыл бұрын

That is unironically one of the most savage quotes of all time.

@cosmiquealiene6168

2 жыл бұрын

This quote makes me feel bad for Molly :( I wonder if she has any close male friends!

I'm an actual gay man. Stuff like this is so irritating and weird. It is both fetishistic and misandrist to think to men can't care for each other deeply as friends. It also doesn't escape my notice that it is always women who are mad the two guy friends aren't screwing. Brotherly love is a thing.

@davidwilliams5749

2 жыл бұрын

#Truth

@sebastianriemer1777

2 жыл бұрын

I'm Straight as shit and I still believe that true, unconditional love only exist between men. 👥

@centipede167

2 жыл бұрын

"fetishistic" Exactly. It's a fetish.

@petis1976

2 жыл бұрын

Chris is reading way too deep into shit.

@petis1976

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris-vs6ll Dude you're delusional. Even Ian said there was no sex in Middle Earth a decade ago. Let it go and have a fine Navy Day.

Middle Earth was just an innocent place where honour and loyalty held more value than glory holes and casual hook ups.

Sauron: *BOW BEFORE ME!* Me: NEVER! (Draws sword) Sauron: *I will destroy the Woke in your world.* Me: What orders from Mordor, My Lord?

@Whimsy3692

2 жыл бұрын

Fuck, if that's what they'd be doing, I'd shove over the Witch-king himself for his job.

@carmenalmonte6991

2 жыл бұрын

Ok but YES -

@thehammer4607

2 жыл бұрын

Not untrue

@ceinwenchandler4716

11 ай бұрын

@@Whimsy3692 You might get run through with a Morgul blade. Which I guess would be sort of like being an intern to the Nazgul, so... yay, you get what you wanted? I guess?

"Are not an accident" No shit, you're reading into something in order to make it fit your beliefs is no accident

@bemotivated8443

2 жыл бұрын

As much as people wish it wasn’t so lotr is Christian and will always be

@harbl99

2 жыл бұрын

Oh dear, is the fanfic section of Tumblr leaking again?

@joshuapowell6822

2 жыл бұрын

harbl99 Tumblr is no longer the domain of people like that, just as Sauron abandoned the Mirkwood after his ruse as the Necromancer ended. The tumblrites reside in places like Twitter and Reddit now, and corrupted them.

@aredjayc2858

2 жыл бұрын

@@harbl99 Tumblr imploded spreading it's insanity everywhere

@wrongway1100

2 жыл бұрын

Kinda religious, isn't it?

I have met shippers, who say, "Don't take away my fantasies." If you bring up that two guys are not a couple. Honestly, most male on male shipping is done by straight, immature, young girls. If a concept has two men, girls are going to ship them. It's, honestly, childish. "Queer Coding" just means lots of personal projection.

@Arclite02

2 жыл бұрын

They do have a point, though. If that's the way they like to interpret things, that's perfectly fine. The problem happens when they start trying to force their personal thing onto the actual work in question. Or when someone else decides to shit on their fantasies because that's not the official way it happened. Sadly, that's a distinction that BOTH sides of the debate aren't exactly great at recognizing.

@dirus3142

2 жыл бұрын

I watched a girl go on a rant about "queer Coding" in cinema. It was one of the first times I've heard the phrase. It was very convincing how much agenda driven projection that phrase represents. One of the examples she used was from a silent film. Two WW1 pilots hiding in a barn holding each other. One was dying, and they were best friends. So obviously that was a secret message to gay people that they were gay and lovers. Just like her first example, Captain Marvel, were Danvers and Rambeau were really lovers. You know, because they were friends and team mates.

@BigBossBernie

2 жыл бұрын

If there are shippers relishing in their own fanfiction, good for them. But there's a difference between "being accepted" and "demanding recognition" - first I can do, but second I abhor.

@Kitsunary

2 жыл бұрын

I don't mind shipping as long as they don't push it on anyone. Saying any work of fiction has a canon, underlying relationship that is never referred to or talked about makes no sense. That's just wishful thinking.

@theramentumbleweed2523

2 жыл бұрын

@@Arclite02 However, their interpretations are almost always sexually charged and 100% wrong, and will never happen in canon. This is why they send hate mail to creators, if their fantasies don't come true. They're convinced their trashy erotic fantasies are already happening. I ran a Supernatural fan community, lol, it was a mistake. Too many of these people are emotionally fragile and broken.

Our society is addicted to sex. That's why people see it everywhere, and think romantic love is somehow a more elevated form of love than others (which is why to suggest people should curb their sexual impulses is seen as such a cruelty). As Jesus said: "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

@putridfetidini5468

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think so. I think our society, at least in recent years, is addicted to misinterpretation.

@PolarizedMechs

2 жыл бұрын

@@putridfetidini5468 You're both right.

@leandronc

2 жыл бұрын

@@putridfetidini5468 I get what you mean, and I 100% agree, but misinterpretation always serves a purpose. People have an agenda, then they try to fit the facts to it. Any way you look at it, it's appalling.

@Kekoapono

2 жыл бұрын

Numerous pride parades have demonstrated that people are more interested in the sexual side of a relationship than the romantic one; that “love is love” isn’t enough. They want their sexual activities and kinks to be on display without negative consequences. Furthermore, more and more people are conflating love with sex and vice versa. Western society is definitely addicted to sex, but that’s also been the case for a long, long time. I would argue, however, that it’s been getting worse ever since the “alphabet” people got more attention.

@Nanayahashira

2 жыл бұрын

@@sardonicspartan9343 it’s not about sex, yet sex is placed every damn where. Sexual deviancy is not a thing huh? It’s definitely not a cancer in the culture. Sure.

I've always felt that Sam and Frodo's bond of friendship, of brotherhood, was deeper and purer than a romantic bond could ever be. Adding that element of sex/attraction cheapens the relationship. Some people are just so obsessed with sex that they cannot conceive of a loving relationship existing without having some underlying sexuality to it.

@Kirbyderbylolol

8 ай бұрын

so did you ever get girlfriend?

@EpicLichenut

8 ай бұрын

@@Kirbyderbylolol Why, are you offering?😘

@Kirbyderbylolol

8 ай бұрын

@EpicLichenut I couldnt stand to cheapen our relationship

@EpicLichenut

8 ай бұрын

@@Kirbyderbylolol That wouldn't be an issue, since we don't have a relationship to cheapen. But if you'd prefer the bond of sisterhood, I'm down for that too. We can share clothes!

One REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE to rule them all.

@rahn45

2 жыл бұрын

Alas poor Az... There is no scissoring here, but there is a lot of the gay!

@nodiggity9472

2 жыл бұрын

@@rahn45 I think Eowyn defo had some scissory aspects to her character.

@k96man

2 жыл бұрын

There are way more than just one.... Unfortunately

@christophebedouret9813

2 жыл бұрын

This woman probably thinks "Gollum!" is the noise Sam makes when he is shocking on Frodo's "sting"...

@gmajor1273

2 жыл бұрын

Big fan of HeelvsBabyface.

"There's at least one novel about a batman and his officer having a romantic relationship" Yeah, and there's at least one book out there that says the sinking of the Titanic was a giant insurance scam by Star-line. Doesn't mean that it was, though.

@BigBossBernie

2 жыл бұрын

"There's a book/ journal/ story out" is the boomer-version of "but it's on the internet"

@albussr1589

2 жыл бұрын

I have this Book. Interesting Theory

@Geomatzen

2 жыл бұрын

I just wish when people said things like "there's at least one book about..." or "it's SO common in literature" that they would actually give an example or two. Less in comments or tweets but if you're taking the time to write something over 500 words at least give me something specific. :P

@TheCorporateSerf

2 жыл бұрын

@@Geomatzen This is somewhat unrelated to the topic but I've been frustrated by this attitude lately. People always supposedly have tons of examples but they refuse to share any and tell you to just look it up/read a book etc. Look what up, give me some goddamn hints you turkey, you tried to convince me of something but now that I'm genuinely interested in following up on your comment you're going to make me do 90% of the work of convincing myself that your claim was right.. which means I'm not gonna do it.

@Geomatzen

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheCorporateSerf yeah. I used to listen to Writing Excuses religiously. Then they had an episode toward the end of the 11th season ( I think....it was their Elemental Genre season) and they were doing the Element of "issue" but it was basically just what I expect from Mary Robinette Kowal. At any rate they had a gal on who said that the theme of. "the colonized being better off and appreciating it" (not an exact quote probably but it was close to that) was SO common. But I couldn't think of any books I had read where that was the case off the top of my head and she provided no examples and no one questioned kit. 😐 Really liked that podcast dammit.

Honestly its so refreshing to hear someone say its ok for straight male friends to cuddle up or get close in general. With all the hypersexuals projecting their horniness on every character they can find is really tiring.

The bond that develops between Sam and Frodo can best be understood by those who have served. It is that of the commanding officer and his first officer.

LotR fans: Brotherhood, friendship, and fraternity Twitter people: B-U-T-T-S-E-X The Greeks have multiple levels of love. However, these people cannot comprehend anything past eros.

@apieceoftoast768

2 жыл бұрын

black n white thinking; The laziest of human's thinking process.

@ToddKeck98

2 жыл бұрын

I swear Twitter is so dumb their last 1 IQ point has to be forced to be shared to members of their cabal like in 1960s China.

@kentonbaird1723

2 жыл бұрын

It's simplistic and animalistic, a physical drive and nothing more.

@ayrachalarsen4945

2 жыл бұрын

That is an understatement

@willnorman-bargo

2 жыл бұрын

I like how the greeks think of love.

This reminds me of some stories I've heard of soldiers breaking down and sobbing while being held and comforted by their squadmates. It's not gay to comfort another man, or to let another man comfort you; It is a sign of immense trust and respect that men, who are expected to keep their emotions locked up in a fortress of stoicism, allow themselves to lower their barriers and express grief and insecurity.

@jovenc4508

2 жыл бұрын

It's like someone else in this comment section said: these people constantly complain that guys need to "open up" more and express their feelings, but the moment we do they attack us for being weak or assume we are gay.

Sigmund Freud must be smiling from beyond the grave at how these people project "underlying sexual meanings" into everything. I think that one of the most powerful things about Tolkien's works are the relationships within the texts, the strong bonds and some of the greatest examples of healthy masculinity in literature. Projecting sexuality on them like that really blatantly disregards the dignity and honor of true masculinity and friendships.

As a gay dude, this piss’s me off. They are just friends, there is nothing wrong with them just being friends.

Characters can't be friends anymore, because desperate people in attempts to canonize their fanfics and porn folder demand they be gay, even if it goes against the author's own words. They're so Delusional, they believe 'Brokeback Hobbits' is a part of the Lord of the Rings Mythos.

@filipvadas7602

2 жыл бұрын

More like these people are phisically incapable of even imagining pure friendships. To them, people either secretly want to shag or they can barely stand each other. There is no middle ground.

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

@@hendrikscheepers4144 I'm stealing both!

@talithakoum3922

2 жыл бұрын

@@hendrikscheepers4144 You win the comment section 😂

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

@@filipvadas7602 From what I've seen and heard, they only see the world as themselves, their "allies" (which is about them) and their haters (which is still all about them). They can't see that the rest of us have lives we have to live, jobs that keep us busy for most of the time to pay our bills and put a roof over our heads and food in our bellies, and raising our kids with our families. We simply don't care WHO you sleep with, as long as it's consensual and kids aren't getting hurt. :/

@alexandru5369

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah deviant art shit needed too stay on deviant art ( it's called deviant for a reason)

There are multiple types of love. The woke is trying to erase the one called Friendship.

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

Well, they've gone after any and all other BONDS? :/

Me, a bi man: "Ah yes, nothing gets my gay juices flowing more than people being emotionally vulnerable with those they trust. Truly, one man cannot have interest in the emotional wellbeing of another -who they are close to- and just be friends. "Hugging"? They must be cuddling. "Forehead kiss"? Oh boy, I guess Frodo missed the mouth. "Crying"? That looks very non-straight to me, straight people don't cry and seek the comfort of friends. What do you mean that's disgustingly reductive and insulting to both gay and straight men? What do you mean that's exactly what a homophobe would think of men that show emotion with honesty? You say that I am creating a bad image for healthy friendships between men of any orientation in the eyes of people of either end of the political spectrum? And that I am using the same logic as anime stans that ship male characters simply because they care for one another? Absurd! All I'm saying is that any man that saves the life of another one *must* be gay, and any other motive they list is either an excuse or a cover up, regardless of the context" Moral of the story: firemen and policemen who take their duty seriously actually want to have a state-wide polygamous relationship. (I don't actually think this last bit is something they believe, I just thought it'd be a good joke) On a more leveled note, I am all for interpreting the story as you wish and I actually really want to see more stories with lgbt characters and couples, I think of that stuff pretty often, and there're obviously things other than sex that tell you that two people are in love. But... this logic... it just makes me uncomfortable. I mean, I literally live in a country where you greet each other with kisses on the cheek and have a custom that involves sitting with friends and drinking from the same "straw", but I doubt every single inhabitant here is non-straight. Also, just to go along with the lgbt interpretation, you gotta love how the author never even alludes to the possibility of Sam being bi and ending up with someone who he loves. Nah fam, the moment you like men you're now gay and any other person you like is actually a form of repression or cover-up. That is literally every movie where the husband of a hetero marriage realizes that he likes men: "Welp, I guess this means that I never actually loved my wife and every time I felt something for a woman never happened. I am now exclusively and excessively gay, liking both sexes while staying with my partner is physically impossible"

@DefectoDepressoEspresso

2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, you would think this person doesn't have friends, or any personal relationships to compare this to.

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

@SuperSaiyanDate

2 жыл бұрын

That last part of your comment is literally a storyline in "Life in Strange 2". And I mean LITERALLY.

@SteveSmith-ty8ko

2 жыл бұрын

@@SuperSaiyanDate God. The first one was AWFUL. I couldn’t sit through it. It was incredibly bad.

Frodo saw the rift he caused between himself, Sam, and Rose. Sam tried to be the Servant to Frodo while being the Husband to Rose. Frodo knew it was wrong because Sam could not have a good life while being conflicted like that. It was one of the reasons why Frodo chose to Sail West on top of his old injuries and possible Shell Shock starting to affect him in a bad way.

"Arent they a cute couple" "They are certanly standing next to each other"

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

@grigori7834

2 жыл бұрын

"Standing next to each other is tight"

@PeterParker-ff7ub

2 жыл бұрын

@@grigori7834 References are tight

@grigori7834

2 жыл бұрын

@@PeterParker-ff7ub Super easy barely a hint of homoeroticism

@hannana.4319

2 жыл бұрын

@@grigori7834 This whole reply thread is pretty TIGHT

"I've read tons of straight love stories and thus, I know for a fact that some gay people aren't gay." See how stupid that sounds? Yet even though it is no different from Molly's statement, I would be cancelled if I said it unironically.

Boy, that really hits true. I'm gay and I get misinterpreted all the time when I try to be extra caring or compassionate for friends. I can, at the very least, understand the confusion some people have with Frodo & Samwise's relationship.

@jailbird1133

2 жыл бұрын

If they are confused, its because they havent had proper role models to show what close friendship is like.

@justicar5

2 жыл бұрын

@@jailbird1133 and that is a lie. Tolkien was confused because homosexual love was illegal and repressed.

@Der_Erpel

Жыл бұрын

Naa you cant really be confused about it since its clear sam marrying Rosie and having 13 children with her.

Narcissists' can't imagine anyone else thinking, feeling or seeing the world differently than they do. Don't push your perversions onto others, it's ignorant and cruel.

SAM LITERALLY GETS MARRIED TO A WOMAN AT THE END OF THE MOVIES!!!

@jamesneese7663

2 жыл бұрын

no....he was just doing that to cover for his "real" feelings. Never let story or history get in the way of an agenda.....!

@TheRavenShadowsWolf

2 жыл бұрын

So... he started a harem? (just a joke, by the way) Though he and Rosie did have enough kids to make a run at qualifying anyway. (One is an heir; two for the spare... anything more than three, doesn't make a bush grown beard)

@langbo9999

2 жыл бұрын

Sam become a brave man and a good husband.

@jamesneese7663

2 жыл бұрын

this all shouldnt be surprising considering the writer is the spouse to the one who rebooted She Ra. It's pretty obvious this is intentional to undermine straight/normal relationships and "stick it" to guys and The Patriarchy. You think this writer would ever tolerate suggestion there was sexual attraction between say Wonder Woman and underage sidekick teen titan Donna Troy? Or can two women just fight crime and have normal lives...?

@Soulbone3

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh Sam got married and had enough kids to make a baseball team, ain't no way that man's gay.

Them: showing emotion and connection doesn't make you gay Also them: yup totally gay

As a Veteran I can vouch for the massive outward flow of emotion directly after an engagement. Men who would come to the realization that they where still alive have broke down and cried, while being held by another man. Nobody thought it was shameful because we all felt the same way. These journalist clowns would never understand it...

@ceinwenchandler4716

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for your service, sir.

Tolkien: writes a fantasy story about good vs evil, friendship and other stuff with inspiration for some of the characters coming from his experience in the army, and clearly shows that they're straight. Freaks who fetishize gayness: man, those two are so gay, why can't everyone else accept that *truth*?

When people take bromances too seriously that it turns into omg accept my head canon or you're a homophobe is why people are getting tired of this woke crap being pushed to it. We are not bigots because we want the story to remain accurate to the original works.

@zenvariety9383

2 жыл бұрын

It's also why people are getting turned off by LGBT stuff. Soon there will be demands to make gay marriage illegal. Can't people see that platonic relationships are a thing.

@viscountrainbows6452

2 жыл бұрын

The bromance started as a little meme/in-joke but in 2021, jokes are now Real. What was silly or just a slashfic yesterday, is today's Critical Theory

@Shiirow

2 жыл бұрын

which is why I hate the term bromance, its just making this whole shit worse by using the word romance when describing the relationship between two men.

@zenvariety9383

2 жыл бұрын

@@Shiirow don't get me started on the term womance. It's the same thing as a bromance except it depicts two women as very close friends. I just want every SJW and Marxist to be purged. The world has suffered enough of their propaganda and porn already.

@viscountrainbows6452

2 жыл бұрын

@@zenvariety9383 "womance" sounds like how a 5 year old would say "romance" How apropos for them.

People can’t tell the difference between a bromance and a romance anymore, just look at the fandom for Luca (Disney+ animated movie)

@theabsolutechadlad5457

2 жыл бұрын

exactly, those people are delusional

@zeldaprincessgirl100

2 жыл бұрын

I was in one video of it, one person was upset cuz others were saying how the creator said it was not romantic and that they should leave if they didn't like how Luca and Alberto are interpreted as gay, that people should let the gay community to have that one. (The comment was a bit long) A lot of other comments were saying how it was gay, while others were saying it's only friendship, bromance 🤷‍♀️ I find shipping in general annoying, people ship way too quickly lol

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

I’m gay and I think your comments are spot on. It’s actually a sad indictment of contemporary society when we could have “the metrosexual” yet not understand how two men could have a close, non-sexual friendship. It’s like people who want to make historical figures gay because when they visited a friend they slept in the same bed but not taking the time to understand that is just what people did for a big chunk of history. It wasn’t sexual, it was often economic. Keep up the good work.

I told one of my friends that I consider a brother that I loved him when he was going through a rough time and nearly wound up in jail. He's married, I'm single and guess what? No buttsechs. We're still close friends and he's doing a lot better now. It is quite possible to be straight and love your friends.

SJWs: why can't men be open with each other Sam&Frodo: "don't you recognize your Sam" SJWs: they're gay! Hetero men everywhere:

@hyrumcannon3789

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

@quatreraberbawinner2628

2 жыл бұрын

@@truthoftheuniverse4179 that clip literally moved me to tears, ty

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

@@quatreraberbawinner2628 habbit are not gay \.cmon ancient time their no gay kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

Nobody is thinking "not another Tolkein video"! Keep going, nail these slanderers and liars to the wall. Tolkien isn't here to defend his own works and thoughts, so it falls to fans like yourself to say something. Personally, I find it inspiring that people care so much to defend his work. So, Some Guy, I implore you to continue.

@xianartman

2 жыл бұрын

Even not knowing elven, I still appreciate the bilingual rants.

@daniell1483

2 жыл бұрын

@@xianartman I was disappointed to not hear one in this video :(

@ComicBookGuy420

2 жыл бұрын

As a Tolkien fan I agree whole heartedly, these idiots need to stop trying to reinvent classic works to fit their BS

@anonimoalfin

2 жыл бұрын

Well said @DanielLamb, we all implore him to continue. He's work is not only important, became URGENT. From the book, not the movie, Gandalf had this 'desconstruction' trend covered... “Saruman,” [Gandalf] said, “I have heard speeches of this kind before, but only in the mouths of emissaries sent from Mordor to deceive the ignorant. I cannot think that you brought me so far only to weary my ears...”

Frodo and Sam went through a horrible, traumatic experience. Of COURSE they'd be close. Just like all men at war are. You can be close and male without it being sexual. I love all your LOTR videos. Someone needs to be on the front line!

The only "Gay overtones" that I ever saw were from the films and that was just from the jokes and memes generated by their portrayed on screen relationship. Because two blokes can't be very close friends without having sex or a romantic relationship with each other can they? "Blood is thicker than water" never described family, but the extremely close comradery that existed by people who went through and survived war together.

For a bunch of liars, they sure do like to use the word “truth” a lot.

@lpsoldin3162

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome to Marxism. Doing anything they can to twist History and The Lexicon to disarm and control you.

@KelsonArwhi

2 жыл бұрын

They do but they pervert it beyond recognition with that "speaking *my* truth" BS, which is a fancy way of saying your opinion counts as fact because you want it to. UNLESS of course spreaking "your truth" involves ungood wrongthink. Then you must be bound, gagged and thrown in a river (digitally of course...for now).

@evanremillard5640

2 жыл бұрын

Remember, it is "their truth". Its a lie that we have to recognize and celebrate.

@lpsoldin3162

2 жыл бұрын

@@KelsonArwhi Remember, only think Doubleplus Good thoughts. ...or else.

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

Fans: "Their friendship is basically Friendship Goals. It's perfect." Weirdos: "It will be.. once it fits our narrative. Seriously.. why is modern media now just taking something great, painting a rainbow colored mustache on it, then being called problematic and something-phobic when we point out the mustache didn't help?

@rickoshay5525

2 жыл бұрын

LOL, good one, applying that horrible Batwoman dialogue.

@sarasunshinemt4444

2 жыл бұрын

First they pushed sex into EVERYTHING. Then when that got to be passé, they started putting gay sex into everything. And notice that as they've done that, our standards have fallen lower and lower, from entertainment to products to education. Being preoccupied with sex, be it straight or gay, doesn't help our society ONE BIT. I'm not saying we need to deny our sexual natures, I'm saying that it shouldn't be our FOCUS.

@KelsonArwhi

2 жыл бұрын

@@sarasunshinemt4444 At this point the only sexual attraction that IS taboo as far as they're concerned (and boy is it ever!) is for straight men to be attracted to beautiful women. Because "duH MaLe GaYzE". Everything else is "natural and beautiful and you're a hateful, bigoted, problematic istaphobe if you don't agree!" And yes, that of course includes straight women eyeing men up like pieces of meat. Because feminism was never about equality. It was rather, like Last of Us part 2, about revenge.

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

One of the things that is dangerous about this narrative is that as you said, it teaches men and young boys that if they do these things, they’ll be perceived as gay. And that’s dangerous too because this deep bond of friendship that Frodo and Sam have is incredibly beautiful. All the things that they do to showcase that deep bond of friendship is again, beautiful. I wish more shows and books showcased this kind of bond more. It’s disappointing that more people nowadays see it as being romantic when it’s not. It’s one of the greatest friendships in literature and nothing else.

By this article alone, I get the impression that Molly Ostertag doesn’t quite understand the kind of love shared between Frodo and Sam. It’s a shame that English doesn’t have as many words for love as Ancient Greek did (or still does, I’m not sure), because Frodo and Sam’s love doesn’t have even a diluted hint of romantic or sexual feelings. Their love transcends romance and sex. Molly doesn’t seem to be able to comprehend the idea of intense love that’s devoid of romance/sex. It’s indeed sad that society at large has conflated love and sex and can no longer remember that such things are not mutually inclusive. Molly is entirely allowed to interpret Tolkien’s work in her own way, but she has failed to provide evidence that her interpretations are results of Tolkien’s intentions, and as such, she cannot make any successful claims about his intentions surrounding Frodo and Sam’s friendship. She’s fabricating fan fiction, and she isn’t doing a good job at it, either.

This is the group that insists Bert and Ernie are gay simply because they're roommates and best friends, despite the Sesame Street producers stating they aren't a couple. If they can do that to a show to teach preschoolers basic letter and number skills they definitely don't care about misreading stuff for adults.

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/opqDtMx9grTIfpc.html

Frodo and Samwise relationship is meant to represent brotherly love as understood from a Christian context.

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

Close.

Just about everyone I met who see Sam and Frodo's relationship as homosexual never served in the military. The relationship J.R.R. Tolkien was illustrating was one anyone who has served, particularly in combat, understands. It is when your teammates become closer than brothers due to the extreme circumstances all of you have been through together. You have experienced things few others understand, relied on each other when your lives were on the line. This creates a bond few others will ever experience. It is not sexual. It is the support of fellow soldiers who learn from facing death how fragile life is.

Men can form brotherhoods so strong that some people can't imagine being real.

So me hugging my straight friend means I want to jump in bed with him despite him having a girlfriend and me happy with my partner? These woke idiots are going to make hard for a two guys to have genuine friendships with each out of fear of (insert reason here)

@kirgan1000

2 жыл бұрын

Somtime I wounder if they never have experience a close frendship.

@ironbaysqiureg4827

2 жыл бұрын

No you see this is when they apply the bi clause saying that well you're actually bi that's why you're with a woman.

@RabuHina

2 жыл бұрын

@@kirgan1000 They probably never did. Funny enough, I never had chance to form close friendships in the 90s as a young boy due to being bullied and whatnot. Skip forward to around 2009 or so when I met my first love interest (long before I met my current partner). Through my first love interest I met friends of his and I soon began to form close friendships with them that I'm still friends with today (fun fact, even gay men can actually have close friendships with each other without it being sexual). The friend I mentioned in my original post is only a handful of straight friends I have. Mainly because I'm just shy at making new friends even at age 34 xD Edit to correct a minor typo

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

@@kirgan1000 TBh, I don't think they can. They seem too emotionally stunted to have close relationships. How are they any different from "incels", really?

@talithakoum3922

2 жыл бұрын

@@elirien4264 There is no difference.

I sure miss the good old days when gay meant happy.

@seanp8220

2 жыл бұрын

ironically now it means Unhappy

@nodiggity9472

2 жыл бұрын

"I'm *not* homosexual, I'm just gay!"

@astrosquirrel5038

2 жыл бұрын

And the rainbow hadn't been twisted into a gay symbol.

"Progressive" people: Ugh, don't you guys know that men and women can be friends without wanting to bang eachother? Also "Progressive" people: *see two men sharing anything remotely ressembling a strong friendship and connection* Omg they're so cute, must be boyfriends, no way they're just straight friends.

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

"Progressive" people borderline HATE straight people. Remember the entire super straight hoax? Some "progressive" KZreadrs completely lost their minds, complete with tears and everything about all the "bigotry directed towards them", even when they themselves inserted into something someone else was intentionally roasting because of the absurdity of all the straight hating. It's like they think EVERYTHING in the world is out to get them (which isn't the truth), and ACTIVELY go out of their way to find something that doesn't and make it about themselves somehow. :/

It’s getting so tiresome with the media’s absolute obsession with who sleeps with who, used to be nobody’s business

@jimbeam2299

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao and when was that?

@evantanuwidjaja8017

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimbeam2299 AMGOSUGUAS GIS EE AGUSG MO EVERYWHERE SI AMGUOS

Now, that's a level of Gatekeeping even Arch would be impressed by.

@bemotivated8443

2 жыл бұрын

“What can men do against such reckless cringe” “Ride out,ride out and gatekeep with me”

@NebLleb

2 жыл бұрын

*"YOOOOOOOOOOOOU SHALL NOOOOOOOOOOT PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASS!!!!!!"*

@bemotivated8443

2 жыл бұрын

@@NebLleb hold the line

@dracofire1621

2 жыл бұрын

Never thought i’d See an arch fan here

@TeamOneDay

2 жыл бұрын

Not as much gatekeeping as trying to deplatform someone for memes, that stuff is too common.

"Love between a batman and his officer..." Me: (*decades of gay Batman and Robin jokes flooding back*)

@seanp8220

2 жыл бұрын

"Frodo don't show me your ring. Don't Tempt me Frodo"

@nodiggity9472

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanp8220 Sam even put his finger in Frodo's ring.

@addisonwelsh

2 жыл бұрын

@@613harbinger316 Dang, you beat me to it.

@skyekross

2 жыл бұрын

Batman and his little boy rubin going to that bat hole - maritez

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

@Nat20 Damage If you want to be technical, an entire STRING of men fingered the ring, including a king. I'm sure there's a fanfic out there somewhere that tells the spicy story of "Sauron's ring" and his "Ring-bearers". :P Yes, I was being intentionally spicy? :P

It always impresses me how you hit the nail on the head in your videos. It infuriates me how they always seem to try to sully the friendship between the hobbits, not just of Frodo and Samwise, but also of Merry and Pippin. Seriously, how many of your friends would be willing to escape in secret with you, leaving their homes and families behind, and set off across the world to face war, hardship and death, because they were your friends and you needed them? Guess what----I don't know a single person in my life who would do that!! the story of those friendships were epic, and deserve to be part of our history and consciousness. Together Sam and Frodo resisted and fought the One Ring, the most powerful weapon and magical artifact of Middle Earth. And Merry and Pippin were the cause of the Ents going to war against Isengard, bringing down Sauruman, when no one else could. It seriously pisses me off that today people seem to have this warped idea that men cannot form close friendships unless there is sex involved. That is pure BS! Friendship and brotherhood has been a pillar of literature since time began. Remember Kipling's "Thousandth Man"? But today a man or boy cannot form a close friendship with another male without being considered gay. And that is a dammed unhealthy state of mind. Small wonder that so many young people are so confused about their sexuality today---they never get a chance to figure things out for themselves, because so many people keep sticking their noses in where they are not wanted. It keeps boys and men from forming friendships, friendships that would help them through good times and hard times, through their lives. Frankly, I think that people who read sex into every single human interaction are sick in their heads.

A lot of people think of Rosie as only featuring at the beginning of Fellowship and the end of Return, but the more one reads LOTR, one notices many times as Sam and Frodo are travelling that Sam mentions Rosie or thinks about her. Tolkien didn't just make her the bookends to the story; he made Sam's entire life to be Rosie. Furthermore, the link to the privates and batmen with their officers is very similar to the camaraderie in any high school football locker room. Brotherhood among teammates and soldiers can be in many ways closer than romantic love without being romantic or sexual at all. Only a person who has never had true friendship could think that such closeness must be sexual.

Alexa: define projection. This failed attempt at trying to have a gay fanfiction to appeal to whatever sick fantasy this lady has definitely counts as projection and no one is having it. Not even the people who aren't Lord Of The Rings fans.

@hastur-thekinginyellow8115

2 жыл бұрын

"lady". I think the appendage hanging between "her" legs protests this label.

I heard this same "gay" theory from a lesbian soon after the movies came out. Like I said then, she is missing the class-based dynamic between an English country gentleman and his working-class compatriot. It's the social system that existed in the late-Victorian through the Edwardian Ages. It's an easy, comfortable stability. Men are not overly masculine. They don't need to be. The subordinate does not envy his employer, nor does the employer need to 'lord' over his subordinate. The term "My love" is uttered easily, as Smeagol does at least once (to his alter-ego). Seeing them as gay is merely the projection of a corrupted, overly sexualized culture, by someone who _wants_ to see it there.

Sam who had a wife and a lot of children after the books: "Am I a joke to you?"

No one ever should say “not another LOTR video”. May they get a Nazgul in Bree wake up call if they utter that.

The idea that Tolkien was anything less than blatant in his writing just exposes those who aren't really interested in the man and his works, but the popularity he has garnered.

@nobodyshome6792

2 жыл бұрын

Proves they are fans in name only.

@KelsonArwhi

2 жыл бұрын

They got so used to painting rainbows on everything, I guess they figured Tolkien's coattails were fair game.

@sigmacademy

2 жыл бұрын

Same goes for pretty much every other major and popular franchise. They don't care anything about any franchises except what they can inject into it or change about it. And when we call them out (rightly) as fake fans, they get p***y about it. You accept a franchise or brand with warts and all - that's what makes you a fan of it. You don't have to blindly accept everything as gospel, but you need to have a love for the story and the characters, even if you disagree with the other fans on pretty much everything else (heck, fandoms are BUILT on different perspectives). If you don't, you're just using that brand for personal benefit (or profit) and therefore, you're just a pirate, not a fan. Heck, even internet pirates have more honor, because at least they pirate the stuff they love and care about (and usually don't have the means or finance to access those products in a legal manner), and ignore the stuff they don't like or disagree with. :/

This is what “Critical Theory” does. It deconstructs and over analyzes a given text until it proves their pre-conceived interpretations.

@jimbeam2299

2 жыл бұрын

…

@PeterParker-ff7ub

2 жыл бұрын

What is critical theory?

@Lucrei.

2 жыл бұрын

"Critical theory is an approach to social philosophy that focuses on reflective assessment and critique of society and culture in order to reveal and challenge power structures" As opposed to you know, the useful outlook of critical THINKING "Critical thinking is the analysis of facts to form a judgment"

I can totally relate to the part about misconstruing because my mom once asked me if my best guy friend was gay because of some of the ways he acts around me and some of the weird touching he does. He is straight and we have the platonic relationship known as bromance. It's not weird at all. My girlfriend jokingly calls him my boyfriend but she knows I'm not gay and neither is he. It's just a silly joke and isn't meant to imply homosexuality in the slightest. Context is everything. People like her need to watch I Love You, Man which showcases lots of different relationship dynamics including straight male bonding, a man with a female fiancé, looking for a friend and mistakenly meeting a gay man who wanted him romantically and sexually, etc. And no, Bert & Ernie aren't gay either. It's painfully obvious they are friends and Frank Oz even said in 2018 that he doesn't think they are and he created Bert.

@ceinwenchandler4716

11 ай бұрын

??? If we're thinking of the same Bert and Ernie, then... wow, that's weird. I mean, as a kid, I saw two young boys living in the same house together and assumed they were brothers. The way the more uptight Bert mixes/clashes with the antics of the younger, more immature Ernie is a classic older/younger sibling dynamic.

I knew it was only a matter of time before they came after Frodo and Sam's friendship. JSG, you make as many LOTR videos as you need, I'll never get tired of this fight!

"Every story isn't about you and every story doesn't include you." Damn freakin straight. I'm stealing that quote by the way.

Yesterday I just ordered myself the lord of the rings extended edition box set because I'm scared of Amazon editing the versions.

@dbsommers1

2 жыл бұрын

Hard copies of what actually happen are one of the bastions against rewriting of history. Anything worth owning, I get a hard copy of.

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

@@dbsommers1 I have the books and a box set from when the films first came out, so no editing.

I always thought the Trauma of bearing the One Ring prevented Bilbo and Frodo from truly connecting with another person in a Romantic intimate form.

We need more well spoken, intelligent people like you to stand up to the madness that is desperately/increasingly trying so hard to corrupt and destroy the things that we love. IF they had valid, universally accepted points, they wouldn't be forced to hijack these beloved, established franchises like pop entertainment terrorists.

I am a Muslim middle eastern male. And I have always loved how Peter Jackson depicted the the easterlings in the lord of the rings. Altough they were the bad guys, they still were depicted as a force with power and dominance. So really I could care less about these critics. And also, Tolkien described them (the Easterlings) in such a manner which is majestic and powerful. The man didn’t have any ill intent.

@TallisKeeton

2 жыл бұрын

you are right :) And actualy the southern and eastern tribes who fought for Sauron in the book and in the movie were mostly falsely manipulated and enslaved by magic to serve him. And what Faramir tells the hobbits in the Two Towers movie - about the young warrior who died in the battle with Faramir's rangers - are stright from the book inner reflexions of Sam who thinks smt along the line - was he truely evil person or just someone's lies forced him to travel from his home to conquer? After the war Aragorn freed all the war hostages from the armies of Harad and Umbar who were free to return to homes or to chose to stay as free men. And at last made alliances with them.

"... so far superior to myself." The humility and grace of this man is astounding.

@suburbanbanshee

2 жыл бұрын

It's pretty common for officers in war to wonder, "Where do we get such men?" Of course, it's also pretty common for people to see the other side, the bad side of people, but Tolkien was looking for the good side in that.

@truthoftheuniverse4179

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWp3mrWRYNC9gJM.html

The old-fashioned devotion between male friends, mentor and mentored, admirer and hero, must confuse post-modern critics. In "Breaker Morant," when George and Morant walk to their execution, they hold hands for a last moment of human contact and comfort. Other execution victims are said to have embraced those about to kill them, for the same reason. Thank you for your well-reasoned and -researched analysis!

"Two males get along? That must mean they're gay!" - SJW Seriously, Tolkien goes out of his way to tell us what happened to them after the story and Sam had enough kids with his wife, the girl he had been swooning over since the beginning of the story, to basically found his own village. Dude is definitely not gay.

@bumblingbureaucrat6110

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't they literally found their own Village though?

This 'Molly' and people like it are so desperate to find justification for their lifestyle choice that it doesn't MATTER how you write a character. If they find they like the property they're going to do everything they can to twist the situation to suit their preferences. Is the character generally non-committal and uninterested in romance? They're repressing their true feelings because society will not accept their gayness and they're afraid to show it. Is the character casual in their friendships with members of the same-sex? They're shy and hesitant but it's so very obvious that if they thought they could get away with it they'd definitely pursue further. Does the character have a close bond with a member of the same sex? It's obvious they love each other why are we even having this conversation? Does the character have (or wish to have) an intimate relationship with a member of the opposite sex? They are clearly just using it as cover to 'hide' their gayness because the world would not accept them for who they truly are. Does this character have a close bond with a member of the opposite sex? The character is clearly gay because no one gets THAT close with a member of the opposite sex without wanting more unless they're genuinely not interested in that aspect because they're gay. Does this character have a casual relationship with members of the opposite sex? Obviously the character is gay or they'd be more interested in pursuing a closer relationship. Is the character a shameless flirt, philanderer, loose, or casual in intimate flings with members of the opposite sex? They're clearly projecting because they're afraid of people finding out that they're gay, which is why they don't have any REAL relationships. You can't win. Mix and match these however you want, but they'll use every amount of eff-ed up logic they can possibly come up with so that they can 'feel better about themselves'. It's ludicrous how far they'll go and no property is safe from these twisted interpretations.

@DickTator6969

2 жыл бұрын

iv'e seen a video about a guy that said one of the zelda games is a " gay coming of age story"

Honestly, I’ve been waiting for this Frodo Sam gay shipping for a long time because despite as diverse as they claim to be, these alphabet people actually sterilize diversity by refusing to be able to comprehend that same sex individuals can be “loving” friends.

Can we please just have one platonic relationship that people don't twist into romance?

@mr_indie_fan

2 жыл бұрын

The alphabet mafia will stop at nothing to make every male to male and female to female friendship twisted.

This is so fucking infuriating, they want to twist one of the most endearing and sweetest platonic friendships. It's one of the best examples of two male friends allowed to openly love each other whilst it NOT being a homosexual implication. I am so glad you brought up the fact that this poisons straight men from being able to have emotional maturity out of fear of being labeled as gay, stunting men and making us all worse for it.

@justicar5

2 жыл бұрын

only if you are some how scared of people thinking you might be gay.

@berilsevvalbekret772

2 жыл бұрын

@@mattshaw4016 dude...that was so disrespectful. Some do sure but don't generalize. And I don't mind your ship honestly as long as you don't shove it down other people's throat. Who am I take someone's enjoyment as long as they don't do any harm.

@mattshaw4016

2 жыл бұрын

@@berilsevvalbekret772 pay attention now to the word "most"

@abonny

2 жыл бұрын

@@berilsevvalbekret772 That's not generalizing. With people like you, everyone has to be SUPER careful to use certain words in their sentences to not be misunderstood or misinterpreted. I fucking hate this nonsense. You have to go over your sentences 5-6 times with a comb... did I word this right? Could anyone be insulted by this? Did I make it vague enough so that some people won't feel like I'm talking about them? Can someone twist my words to make me sound racist or sexist? He said "most". Sure, he could have said "some" or "many"... but no matter what, he didn't say "all", so we all understand what he meant.

@berilsevvalbekret772

2 жыл бұрын

@@abonny and you defend him why? I don't like generalization that's it.

'Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.' - SIgmund Freud Unfortunately some people are simply obsessed and their obsessions have become pathological. Show them cards from the Rorschach test and they'll see the object of their obsession in all of them.

This reminds me of the time when I got into an argument online about whether or not Tintin and Captain Haddock were gay. I opined - politely enough, mind you - that I didn't think they were, that it was extremely unlikely they had ever been intended to be, and that there was nothing wrong with certain close platonic male friendships remaining simply close platonic male friendships. I wrote this just before I went to bed. By the time I got up, I discovered that about three different people on the site had accused me of being 'anti-shipping', and therefore homophobic, and that, while I was peacefully slumbering, I'd been banned. This was a number of years ago now. In retrospect, it was a sign of things to come.

A prominent sjw rule: there are no platonic relationships.

It's one thing for fan fiction and head canons to exist, it's a totally different story when those in charge of a franchise adopt extreme fan fiction style writings

@BrownGaijin

2 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment.

@elirien4264

2 жыл бұрын

I can think of a couple of film makers who made that mistake and turned a lot of their work into nothing but their own fanfic.

@darthwolfX2

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed and underrated comment.