I just added Mrs. Sarah Miller's book to my cart. I have not been so excited to get my hands on a book since Zodiac!! I CANT WAIT TO READ IT.

You make some good points. I’ve read a few books on it, fascinating! I just don’t see how she spends most/all of her life being decidedly average then suddenly for about 3 hours she becomes a genius and masterminds & executes an unsolvable crime by herself. Have begun thinking the 4 of them planned & did it - Lizzie, Bridget, Emma, John Morse. How else??

thoroughly enjoyed. thank you!

I have lived in fall river my entire life I have finally got the chance to stay overnight I have always been a huge history buff especially on this fall river history I would give anything to be able to be a volunteer at the house

Great podcast

I really do want a book about her life before the murders and the history of fall river back then there's not many books on that time period in her life

Great book! I highly recommend it.

a few things i find interesting Uncle John. He had no luggage Did he stash it in the barn? Heres a guy who appeared suddenly right before and right after the murders. Why would he rush back for a rotten lunch when he could have eaten at the other familys place he visited. He could have gotten them to lie for him..He came to ask to borrow money and was turned down i think. What was his business? What did he want and why.? But was it planned ?. was he in the will ? Was he crazy ? I always had a creepy feeling about his photo but they said his excuse was airtight. Was it?? Maybe most people looked scary in photos back then. The second thing is why would Lizzie burn the dress in front of anyone if it had blood on it. She could have done it in the night had it been anything. or by doing it in front of people made it seem like it was an innocent thing to do..Being caught at night would have been worse ..But the dress would have been completely covered in blood. no mistaking it Lastly. am i the only one who noticed that Emma looks very much like a man in a dress. They did that kind if thing back then in the 1800s. Or she could have been born wirh both parts. And what about footprints. I mean there would be some What happened to that evidence. I think they had a mans footorint but were already after Lizzie. The police hyoerfocusing on one suspect is common. Big money to be made off this story and news paper rev..They really had zero evidence against her However. was the maid actually a lookout for Lizzie. in it together ? it just goes on and on... We will never know If Lizzie had planned it out..She could have simply pushed the Stepmom down the stairs or used a pillow. The hatchet is def a man's weapon even today. And its not like she didnt have any savings of her own..She was so drugged up after that she didn't remember where she was at the time.. The druggest who said she was looking for poison was lying i think. People do that kind of stuff for attention sometimes It was a Red herring

@sarahholland2600

3 жыл бұрын

Only Lizzie had motive & opportunity. Brigid (Called Maggie by the family) was well paid & had a pay increase 6months earlier. The women kept the upstairs clean & dusted downstairs. Brigid cooked & did laundry & ad hoc tasks. For those times it was an easy job. Uncle John wasn't left any money in the will but I assume the girls left him in charge of the farm & business he ran for Andrew. Lizzie & Emma inherited what would be $4million each in today's money.

Excellent interview with Sarah Miller. However, it was odd hearing Ms. Miller repeatedly refer to Abby Borden as Lizzie Borden’s parent. Abby Borden was Lizzie’s stepmother, an important difference.

Very interesting discussion. Thank you. I flip flop about whether she was guilty of the murders. There’s compelling evidence on both sides. The trial was a snapshot of events. Not the whole story. I Like the stories about all The people on the periphery and learning what they believed given the story. A person is more than their worst act. These were horrific murders. But I have a feeling we just don’t know everything and are not likely to come to a solid conclusion about who is guilty. It certainly was a different time for the collection of evidence. Allowing neighbors and strangers to walk through the house to view the bodies was awful. But it was a different time.

The Elizabeth Montgomery version of The story of Lizzie Borden Story was the bomb It was haunting and very realistic BTW Lizzie did it and she did while naked Bridget Sullivan couldn't of done it, she was busy working & talking to a neighbor She had no opportunity HELLO use your common sense

@realhousewifeoftransylvania1.0

Жыл бұрын

Oh I guess you must have been there to know she was naked. 😆 That's why she was burning a dress in the basement. And who knows what else. That naked theory sounds so fantastical.

@jacquelinerussell8530

Жыл бұрын

@Real Housewife of Transylvania that's the theory by many historians Dummy their words, not mine

@realhousewifeoftransylvania1.0

Жыл бұрын

@jacqueline russell Okay moron! You don't even know what a historian is😂🤣 🖕🏻 Do you even literature?😂

@phillipstroll7385

Жыл бұрын

Lizzie could NOT have done it. If anyone had access to water to clean themselves it was Brigitte. Although, I do not believe she did it either, but she being wet and pouring out bloody water would account for lack of blood. However, neither of these women could have committed the crime. Too many people saw them going in and out of the house that day. Besides, the murder weapon wasn't a hatchet nor was it one weapon. A great many of the blows were crushing blows. Several of the wounds went into the skull but not through the skull. Any hatchet, even a dull one, even with a half swing, would go through the skull completely. We also know from the autopsy different weapons we used to kill Abby than Andrew. One of the weapons used on Abby, the sharp one, was gilded. As someone with both medical and legal experience, I graduated medical school and I have a JD, I do NOT believe anyone living in that house had anything to do with those murders. Let us not forget Abby was attacked head on. She was struck in the face 4 times. Hard enough to leave indentations in the forehead the perfect size of a large fist. A 4 inch long 2 inch wide oval on the bridge of the nose and forehead. She was struck so hard her hair braids flew off her head. Let us also remember the bodies were not pictured as they were. They had already had a preliminary autopsy then were put back in best guess in order to take photos. Also, let us not ignore the fact that Andrew DID in fact have a great many enemies. So much so, people were singing and praising the fact that he was dead outside the home. This nonsense that lizzie hated her stepmother is nonsense. She called her mother and considered her mother until she was over 30 years of age. At which time they fought as a family, but that didn't mean she hated her. Unless there is some yet to be discovered evidence of someone's guilt I'll not believe lizzie had the time or presence of mind to commit a genius multi murder of such force that a punch in the face silenced her enemy. She wasn't broke, she wasn't a hateful person, she wasn't cruel, she wasn't brilliant, she didn't even graduate. With that being said, if I had to say someone in the house did it, my money is on Bridget. She had motive and opportunity. She had access to water and a reason to be wet head to toe. She had the strength. She's the one who acted like a psychopath. She's the one who fled the country. She's the one who when told to go up and get a sheet to cover Andrew's body, grabbed two. As if she knew another would soon be needed.

✿◠‿◠)/ ♥ Just read her book a couple of months ago! Awesome she was a guest! :D

Finally someone who thinks like I do

It really is hard to determine whether or not she did it, but I think maybe her uncle might have. I think she knew he would, but that's just conjecture. I do find it strange that her uncle would be there the night before. Whoever did it planned it long before so they would have had to know a few things, such as Andrew coming home at that time. If she did it then she would have had to know how to use a hatchet and have the physical strength to swing it that many times. If she was not used to physical labor then she would have been physically challenged. Oh, and why does everyone keep saying she was ugly? That's clearly not a picture of an ugly woman. Maybe she was socially awkward, and that's why people would perceive her as a "lone nutter". OK, regarding the accusation of incest. We should not make an accusation if there is no evidence, however in cases of incest there is rarely evidence but we do know that incest happened in a lot of other situations to other people. I don't think you should put that on the backburner as long as there is a suspicion. That is a very serious charge and since this case is part of the American conscience and collective memory of history, it should be investigated. There is a reason her uncle came to visit, and if that reason was to confront Andrew about a charge as that, her uncle would have had a motive. But, at the same time it would not have been talked about in the courtroom, unlike today. Because her family was relatively wealthy, that is one thing the newspapers would not have mentioned as it went against the mode of thought in that day. It's one thing to talk about murder as murder was highly glamorized in those days, but incest would not have been mentioned. You have to remember that back in those days both murder and rape were called "crimes of passion".

@sandyotelli8886

5 жыл бұрын

Free Mason?😒🗿🔨affair?😈😕

@RosePorch54

4 жыл бұрын

i also believe that the uncle did it but i think he had help from the maid

@shaharazon2449

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. incest is obvious here But was Lizzie a complete loner.? .She had friends. cousins. childhood friends.. people from church Just not a big social life but how could she when she was being victimized in many ways

@vicky4112

2 жыл бұрын

​@@RosePorch54 The uncle had an alibi. The question is - did the alibi cover the entire time he was gone from the house that morning?

@Billygoatsgrruff

Жыл бұрын

@@shaharazon2449 There was no proof of incest. That's just modern day gutter minded thinking, same as the lezzo story. Seems people will find anything to try excuse the cold blooded murders that Lizzie committed. The Uncle was gone all morning, whether people like it or not, he wasn't there when the murders happened. Lizzie was, and Lizzie did it. She got off because the investigation was poor, highly paid lawyers; a doctor who conveniently kept giving her drugs, even on the day when others said she seemed quite calm; a judges' instruction basically to aquit, and a jury of men, who even signed a photo to send to her as a gift, that were too stupid to ever conceive that a woman could be violent

37:40 Really...! Wow! Lizzy had $74,000 in Her Own bank accounts? I never heard that before. Why didn't she just leave, get her own place? There was some serious disfunction in that house. She was trauma-bonded to her father and must have Loved to hate her step mother.

@shaharazon2449

3 жыл бұрын

The father had some sort of mind control on the daughters it seems. He did not want them to move out The thing to do is save her money while spending his...since there was no regular income for the girls since they were not allowed to work or had any marriage plans.. The money had to last in case the will was changed Liz wanted a fancy life and not have to count pennies

@sarahholland2600

3 жыл бұрын

It wasn't done, culturally, for single women to live alone then if they had parents. They were expected to live at home until married or remain at home if not married. A widow could live alone if her husband died though.

@FetchTheSled

3 жыл бұрын

@@sarahholland2600 Wrong. "In every state, the legal status of free women depended upon marital status. Unmarried women, including widows, were called “femes soles,” or “women alone.” *They had the legal right to live where they pleased* and to support themselves in any occupation that did not require a license or a college degree restricted to males. Single women could enter into contracts, buy and sell real estate, or accumulate personal property, which was called personalty. It consisted of everything that could be moved-cash, stocks and bonds, livestock, and, in the South, slaves. So long as they remained unmarried, women could sue and be sued, write wills, serve as guardians, and act as executors of estates. These rights were a continuation of the colonial legal tradition. But the revolutionary emphasis on equality brought some important changes in women’s inheritance rights. State lawmakers everywhere abolished primogeniture and the tradition of double shares of a parent’s estate, inheritance customs that favored the eldest son. Instead, equal inheritance for all children became the rule-a big gain for daughters." Source: ap.gilderlehrman.org/essay/legal-status-women-1776%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C1830#:~:text=Unmarried%20women%2C%20including%20widows%2C%20were,college%20degree%20restricted%20to%20males.

@sarahholland2600

3 жыл бұрын

@@FetchTheSled I meant culturally not legally. As per children's author Beatrix Potter who remained at home until her mid 30's despite making a fortune thru her books, in the early part of the century.

Do you think she did it

The Borden girls were very smart, had Extensive education that men at that time would’ve found intimidating. So they probably had a hard time finding suitors.

I disagree with Sarah Miller. Lizzie didn't need to be a psychopath. She could have been an animal loving, charitable to her fellow man person before the murder and go right back to being that after. John List murdered his entire family. When he was captured decades later, he had remarried, was working at the same type of job he held while with his previous family and was even involved in the Lutheran church once again. I think he was an elder or a deacon. I think she just needed to feel justified in her actions. Perhaps a fear that she would lose her inheritance to her step-mother might suffice.

@krisweaver7524

2 жыл бұрын

John List was a male who then covered up the crimes and created a new identity while on the run for 30 years. Lizzie Borden was a women who was ironing and doing chores, called the maid downstairs, directed the maid to find the doctor across the street and stayed in the home, making no attempt to escape or cover anything up. Moreover, no blood was found anywhere on Lizzie Borden directly after the murder. Those are 2 entirely different circumstances. This was an angry male crime. The uncle did it.

@BobbieJoe6051

Жыл бұрын

@@krisweaver7524 I was using John List as one example of someone who commits a crime and then goes back to living a normal life. Never killing again. There are many others. There are also a lot of killers who do what Lizzie did. Just claim to be going about your business while these two violent murders were committed. What else could she do at that moment? I could go in depth on what I think happened but it would take too long. Uncle John had no motive to do in his brother in law. He received nothing from the Borden estate. He did have some minor business dealings with Mr. Bordon. It was more advantageous for him that Mr. Borden be alive.

@Billygoatsgrruff

Жыл бұрын

@@krisweaver7524 don't be so stupid. Your whole statement is sexist and wrong. No wonder women keep getting away with so many things. Even today people are still too thick to think of women being violent. The uncle was out and yes he did have an alibi, but you're quick to blame him simply because he was a man? Oh brother, please go do extensive research on crimes committed by women over the centuries, then come back and claim that the only person in that house at the time of the murder of her father, wasn't capable of the killing. I bet you 1 million bucks that if Lizzie was the son and not the daughter, that you would be screaming guilty

@Billygoatsgrruff

Жыл бұрын

@@BobbieJoe6051 These people pinning it on the uncle are naive and gullible to the extreme. They refuse to believe women can commit such acts of violence. Seriously, I am baffled by it. The uncle being there was just perfect timing for Lizzie, because she quickly went to see Alice after that to make up all this BS about worrying someone will burn the house down lol it was so obviously Lizzie. She's the only one who made up the BS note to prevent her father looking for Abby. Yes she did it, and today she would have been convicted. The whole being nice to animals and the community could well be an act too. Get into people's good graces because let's face it, most people wanted nothing to do with her and I don't blame them one bit

*

I don't care if I wasn't in the murder room I couldn't spend the night HELL TO THE NO

The latest version with Ricci was awful. The modern music on the soundtrack was really annoying was not appropriate for a story which took place in the 1890's.

Is this woman serious? Ignoring all of the other circumstantial evidence around the case just to make things fit her narrative.

Who else thinks Casey Anthony looks like a skinny version of Lizzie Borden reincarnated?

@culliedavidson9428

3 жыл бұрын

Cre8tiv Place Casey Anthony aka Elizabeth Montgomery.

@FetchTheSled

3 жыл бұрын

yeah, the eyes.

can do without tha over emotional drama queen

un-listenable due to tha giggling kid. silly

@jimimarlatt7086

3 жыл бұрын

Man! What a grumpy sourpuss! I think she was very natural and unassuming. Very enjoyable!