Fun fact: Elizabeth Montgomery was Lizzie Borden's 6th cousin once removed.

An excellent podcast! I have been fascinated with the Lizzie Borden case since I read a magazine article when I was 13.2 years later I saw the TV movie with Elizabeth Montgomery and I was hooked.One day I need to vist the house,which is now a B&B in Fall river ,Mass.

A funny comment on a Lizzie Borden forum suggested that Uncle John headed straight to the backyard and the pear tree because he had seen police, etc. and figured there wouldn't be any lunch that day. Fun fact: When eight people were axe murdered in June 1912 in Villisca, Iowa, it came to mind that John Morse lived in Hastings. Investigators checked up and found that Morse had died a few months before and was buried in the cemetery there. Morse did several things which I think show his innocence. He checked out locks on doors at the Second Street house and seemed really interested in their effectiveness. That he had been a butcher also argues against him creating the overkill found in the murders. Whoever did it, I think, did not have much experience with a hatchet or whatever was the murder weapon. I think the time frame does not absolutely rule out Morse as the perpetrator. A recent effort argues that some times were wildly misreported, claiming that Morse was back as the Borden home earlier than stated. I thought Morse stayed in a third floor room, not the guest room, on the night of the fourth. Right now I cannot remember if Bridget stayed one night after the murders or if she stayed with friends. I think she stayed with friends but I could be wrong. I do not believe Lizzie committed the murders. I wonder if an associate of John Morse might have. There is some indication that Morse may have made a sum of money trading horses or livestock. I can understand that people can become so enraged that they attack other people, even killing. Two gory murders, over an hour apart, indicates serious mental issues. Much more is known now about Lizzie's life after the trial and evidence mounts that she was a kind and caring person who did a lot of good for the community, people, children and animals. I do not see the self-centeredness seen in many criminals, much of which is called narcissism in today's world.

I like Victoria Lincoln's A Private Disgrace. In those days they might have "put away" a woman who tried to purchase poison to use on her family, Temporal lobe seizures of rage, Uncle John being called to visit to support the family when they were trying to commit her and she struck first, before a doctor could pronounce her and take her away. Committing the crime unclothed, wiping herself down with menstrual rags that she could wear and dispose of in the wash room.

Lizzie had motive & opportunity. The week before, the row over Andrew gifting a house & money to Abby's relative led to Lizzie & Emma moving out for 3 days. On their return , Lizzie told friends that things were so bad they were still not eating meals with Andrew & Abby & were staying in their rooms all day. The front door was locked. Lizzie, in the barn "eating pears & looking out the window" would have seen anyone sneaking in the latched back door. (No footprints were found in the very dusty barn). Uncle John had an airtight alibi. The maid , not well , was asleep in her attic bedroom & had been seen & talked to by next doors maid when washing the outside rear windows. The folded coat under Andrews head was worn by Lizzie to do the murders. The crime scene photo shows 2 sofa cushions. It was a boiling hot day. Would Andrew have worn a coat over his jacket & waistcoat ,then used it as a cushion when there were sofa cushions he could use ? They found no hatchet because Lizzie used the flat iron that she ironed handkerchiefs with that morning . Abby's autopsy photo is on You Tube: her main rear head wound is shaped like a flat iron. Andrews photo is too blurry to see anything . The sisters inherited the equivalent of $4 million each. Lizzie tried to buy poison the day before the murder & 2 days after the murder burned one of her dresses in the stove....

@phillipstroll7385

Жыл бұрын

Your facts are wrong. Lizzie was innocent and a victim of being a modern woman trapped by victorian morals. The prosecutor tried to railroad her all because she wouldn't kiss his ass. First of all, they didn't deadbolt the front door. Someone else did it. No one would have seen someone entering the front door, nor the backdoor while lizzie and bridget were outside. Reporters all said the police were lying about not being any footprints in the barn. For they all were in the barn as well and saw them for themselves they all also stated that in order for police to say there were no prints would mean the Reporters footprints were invisible as well. The burning of the dress is irrelevant because the dresses lizzie wore that day were turned over to police. They were all treated for blood and one, the all important blue one, was found to have menstrual blood on it. The rags in the basement by the flush toilet were proven to be menstrual towels. Add all that to the fact that a crazed hatchet killer was arrested the day of her jury selection but the prosecution withheld that information from the public and the jury is just bullshit. There was no evidence at all of her guilt. Plus, she couldn't have gotten naked to commit the crimes or changed clothing. Anyone whom thinks she could have had never dressed in period clothing. Women wore multiple layers. Multiple. Plus the buttons and the whalebone lacing there is no way she could have skipped wearing any of the proper layers and those around her wouldn't have noticed. She would have been vilified straight away if she neglected a single decency. She wasn't. The entire community stood by her side until she named her new home Maplecroft. That was the straw that broke the norms and customs of the day. Not leaving off a corset, stay or even one of at minimal three layers of clothing. When she changed into her evening dress the doctor was in the room with her. To check her under garmets for blood or disarray. Nothing of which was found. Women also didn't wash their hair daily then. Maybe once a week. More usually once every two weeks. If her hair was out of place, wet, unrolled etc it would have been noticed. She didn't do it.

Adjacent to Jamestown, a Mona Lisa of west VA.

I've always been a little confused about people thinking lizzie was innocent, she was in the house while two people was slaughtered, there's no way she could have not heard anything if someone else has committed the crime.

@krisweaver7524

Жыл бұрын

first, you can never say "There's no way." There could be a way. maybe she's oblivious. Or doesn't care. Second, if that is your theory, the maid upstairs heard everything as well. She never said anything. Are you letting her off the hook? Why are you not questioning her? Third, nobody ever said she didn't know who did it. She could have been there, knows who did it and remained silent. That is a right that we have. Fourth, I don't claim to be an expert in forensics. Your theory is that this Sunday school teacher, who volunteered in her community, with no history of violence, took a hatchet and brutally murdered these two people. Every witness who saw her immediately afterward is emphatic about seeing no blood on her clothes or her body. Her clothing and hair show no signs of being disheveled. Statistically, it is unlikely that she killed her father. Patricide is overwhelmingly a male crime. The brutality of this crime suggests someone who is used to violence and blood. Very few women killers attack physically. They may shoot with a gun from distance or poison their victim. Did she physically attack her father? It is hard to believe. I would bet a lot of money that the uncle did this. By the way, he was a butcher.

@heatherigreja9120

10 ай бұрын

I can tell you as someone who has stayed in the home and is in the process of getting a job there I can tell you anyone who was in the home at the time of the murder would have been able to hear Abby's murder not only would you have heard her hit the floor but you would have felt it in the rooms downstairs on the first floor

Yeah I don’t think there’s any bond between John and Lizzie, why would they be in further contact? But maybe he did know what happened, ugh, why did he stay over not just one but two nights? Yuck. I’m editing this some time later - I’m more inclined to think John, Emma and Lizzie were in on it together. Just too coincidental re their activities on that set of days. He was there to lull Borden with business conversations, distract him a bit, so the various planning can occur by Lizzie and maybe even Emma. Emma either was involved some way we don’t know of, or her role would be to ‘be away’ while John and Lizzie did certain things. How could such a ‘smooth’ double-killing happen without that type of collusion. Also if Lizzie had planned it without him and then he shows up, that would throw a wrench in it and she might not go ahead with it. But no, an unexpected guest shows up and you still do the thing? With basically no reaction from this guy. I think he was part of the plan.

I sure can't figure out how anyone can believe she did it. There isn't one shred of evidence pointing toward her. Not one.

"Lizzie was a strange character....' I'll say!

@lizzieborden5028

4 жыл бұрын

Masson Man ok I may be strange but not a murderer I am I or not 😈

@foxgloved1

2 жыл бұрын

@@lizzieborden5028 not

You guys do that without face diapers?

can do without tha giggling dolly

Maybe she wasn't the best girl detective if she couldn't even find her father's killer.

@massonman9099

5 жыл бұрын

She only had to look in the mirror!