Someone suggested that we move through the Woodland realm too quick, so these are all possible options for expanding it, do you agree? Always fun to try new things that I never thought of before. EDIT: I think I've made up my mind, I like all options except for (B), it feels a bit out of place

I appreciate the new inclusions, I think there is nothing wrong with these scenes. Adding Tauriel back as a minor side character is perfectly fine for me. The more time we can spend in Middle-Earth, the better!

Bro never stops editing

Thank you for continuing to work on your edit. I remember reading the thread where some of these additions were suggested, and now voilà!

I appreciate that you continue improving on your cut. Indeed, this clip feels a bit less hurried. Also, if you could flat out cut any scenes after Bilbo loses consciousness, it would fix the elven sword suddenly popping up in Thorin’s hands, while sacrificing some cool but quite ridiculous action scenes. Lastly, while not in the book, a lot of people appreciate the final scene in the first movie when Thorin admits to be mistaken about Bilbo. It makes me care more about their growing friendship and gives more power to their last moments together.

@M4Studios

4 ай бұрын

We need to show the final stabs to both characters , so there’s still going to be bout 30 seconds of footage of Orcrist, nothing you can do. But that’s so minimized that hopefully even less will notice. I cannot include the hugging scene because thorin isn’t wounded, he hugged him because bilbo had saved him from dying and that’s why it’s so heartwarming but it comes out of nowhere without that context in my edit. It’s also like you say, too early compared to the book when really they respected bilbo closer to Laketown and woodland realm. Change (E) uses a line from that scene though :)

E - One thing I think is needed was a bit more warmth and connection, so the loss of it later with the arkenstone feels stronger, and also just generally those connections add to the bonds of the group. Any face to face reactions, especially stuff from Thorin, adds to it I think. Not a fault of your edits but it feels like there's a lot of spectacle that could have been replaced with human interactions between characters, including between Dwarves to give them some character moments. D - The little details sometimes get lost trying to keep it a decent running time, so it's nice as an establishment of their being stuck there and what they're doing to pass the time, leads up nicely to the rescue (although I felt the Rivendell salad scene was overdone in the original) C - I like that it sort of gives these Elves a bit more motivation to be as insular as they are, when we've seen the more worldly elves at Rivendell seem to care more about what's going on B - Unsure how I feel here. I guess there's not much to work with that would line up better with the book. Having Thranduil shown in part feels like a bigger lead up to his introduction than he needs for his level of importance for me, but I guess he's important enough to warrant something. I don't have all the material in front of me to know what's missing so I don't know if there's anything better, but I guess someone who is already a bit ethereal seems served by a more prosaic introduction in my eyes? Not sure if that's helpful to say A - If C, establishing her as a commander makes sense. Legolas's de-aging is a bit uncanny for me but I like acknowledging they have Elvish blades so I don't know

@M4Studios

4 ай бұрын

For B it’s just that I was testing the dialogue overlapping the scene, I wouldn’t change the actual footage of the scene

First, I greatly enjoyed your edit from last year! 🤩(even used it as a foundation for the one I made for personal viewing). Second, the new changes here really do wonders for the pacing of the sequence! And I agree with another commenter that it would be good to add a pause between "That is your task!" and "The fortunes of the world..." In the original cut of the scene there is a shot of Tauriel looking downcast and bowing her head then turning around. It comes right after "... but here, in this kingdom, we will endure." Just use the part where Tauriel looks sad and cut away back to Bilbo before she turns around! 😀

@M4Studios

3 ай бұрын

The sad shot of tauriel is far too quick because she starts turning around, I had already tried everything I think this is the best. But I won’t be including this scene after many debates. It’s too long for not adding much. Tauriel is too random.

@Denz-El

3 ай бұрын

​@@M4Studios 👍 Good point. That would just result in a weird cutaway. 😅 Your edit has been a huge inspiration for me so I'd also like to share my take on the AUJ to DOS transition. It's specifically imagined as a follow up to your version of "Out of the Frying Pan". (I'd like to apologize in advance for the quality being all over the place.) kzread.info/dash/bejne/eayc1aptYr3Tdrw.htmlsi=oN7AIzoBf-OO34pi

I am very happy with this edit, it results in a sufficient stay in the Woodland Realm, I'd say. I think A and C are good additions, I also like the subtle reediting of C with the minor quibble of the cut in Thranduil's dialogue ("[...] that is your task" to "the fortunes of this world [...]") being a little immediate, i.e. one notices the cut. I think maybe just a small added pause could fix this. I like the dialogue from B, but I don't think it works in this scene, which I think works really well in the current cut. While I like every bit of the book included, I think this is one of the places where less is more to keep the original scene intact, especially as it silently introduces the new realm which the company enters. The added scenes in D are very much appreciated. I am wondering whether it might be possible to intersperse some shots of the Dwarves waiting in their cells in between Bilbo listening in on Thranduil and the scene in the wine cellar. Ideally, this would create the impression that the Dwarves are actually stuck in the Thranduil's Halls for a prolonged time. However, if there is no material to achieve this impression, I think the experimental cut already goes a long way to decelerate the sequence. I think E is a very nice touch, in general the changes to Thorin's and Bilbo's relationship has been a favourite of mine in your cut.

@M4Studios

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I already did try that, there wasn't any footage to go between the dialogue to create a pause, Tauriel immediately starts pacing and then talking so the only option is to go to Bilbo walking. But seeing as you were familiar with the scene when you suggested it and have been the only one to point it out, I'm sure once fully immersed in the film and forgoing the original flow it will go unnoticed to the average viewer. I have a few more test clips coming too!

GREAT EDIT!, Also wherer did you find the bombur and bifur scene?

@M4Studios

8 күн бұрын

It’s in the desolation of smaug appendices, part 10 i think

@gabs9753

8 күн бұрын

@@M4Studios thanks, do you know where o can find This?

I don't have a problem with any of these inclusions, but they don't really add anything to the stories. I think if I were to summarise how I feel about them, it would be that it feels like a series of half scene, almost like a woodland realm montage. Wether it's worth adding I'd leave at your feet, and worth the effort of implementing.

A + C: This works great to add a bit more depth to the Elves and flesh out Thranduil just a bit. It also conveys effectively a feeling of Bilbo sneaking through the realm for a while before making it to the dungeons, so it does make the time spent there feel a bit longer. D: Nice moment, also adds to the passage of time. E: This is great! With most fanedits loosing the Carrock dialogue (which was admittedly a bit over the top), we never really get many Thorin-Bilbo scenes in the middle portion of the story to express him warming up to Bilbo. Any small moment helps with this, it comes at a right time and it is good to get that piece of dialogue back. B: This didn"t work for me. Already hearing dialogue between the dwarves and Thranduil while the visuals only show the dwarves on the way to Thranduil is very jarring. Also just hearing Thranduil speak before his elaborate introduction takes away from the atmosphere of the original scene, and does feel a bit "obviously fanedit-y", which your edit rarely does. The dialogue itself also does not really add much. I feel like there is just not enough material to work with here.

@M4Studios

4 ай бұрын

Pretty much agree with everything. So sad to have to let the book dialogue go though. If only they had just included that scene!

Maybe the scene would be a bit short... but have you thought about what the scene would be like if you completely removed Thorin and Thranduil's conversation and went directly to Bilbo finding the keys in the cellars? This would eliminate Thorin's invented racism against the elves for something they never did in the books and the moment in which Thranduil looks like a cretin for not wanting to exterminate the spider nests further north because they are not part of his kingdom.

@M4Studios

3 ай бұрын

Interesting idea, but I like that scene, Thranduil speaks to Thorin in the book. You're right the feud is expanded in the films, but it's not made up don't forget what Tolkien said even just about the Rivendell elves: "Dwarves don’t get on well with them. Even decent enough dwarves like Thorin and his friends think them foolish (which is a very foolish thing to think), or get annoyed with them. For some elves tease them and laugh at them, and most of all at their beards." It's true that the Elves never reached out to help in the book, except that's partly why I was glad I cut the prologue because it was silly to show the Elves marching right to Erebor and then literally turning around. *That* of course did not happen, but Thorin can still be mad. Woodland Realm was pretty withdrawn from the rest of middle earth and wary of strangers, maybe movie version of Thranduil here is more excessive but it's not completely out of the blue

@lordsauron8037

3 ай бұрын

@@M4Studios I didn't remember that part, thanks for clarifying, so... Thorin and the dwarves were also nasty to the elves of Rivendell in the book?

@M4Studios

3 ай бұрын

@@lordsauron8037 they weren’t nasty but there was some minimal tension. like the book says they just thought of the elves as foolish, but they didn’t hate them and gladly took their help here. Thorin didn’t have to be tricked to enter by gandalf for example in the book he was willing to go

I really like the tweeks here. I really think your cut is the ultimate Hobbit's cut... it's trully a masterpiece! If I may, could I suggest some changes on Laketown too? I know Alfrid is a highly hated character, but I think some of his scenes does make sense on the second movie, like the one where he meets Bard at the entrance of Laketown, which adds tension and understanding about why Bard wanted to hide the dwarves and the one he talks to the Master, with an antagonistic view about Bard's ascension as a leader of the men of the lake and foreshadowing the Master not listening to Bard opposing to the dwarves going back to mountain. I just think these two scenes adds more depht to Bard's arc and a much more detailed take on Laketown (without hurting the original story). What do you think about that? Could you consider add some tweeks on Laketown too?

@M4Studios

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! But sorry, don’t want to expand on Bard any further he’s already quite expanded upon from the book in my edit and the reason I felt like expanding Woodland realm was because it had to do with referencing Bilbo wandering around the tunnels and then those extra shots of dwarves in the cells, all stuff has to do with the company. I agree that you’re right those scenes do add to Bards character, but it’s just not what my edit is setting out to do

@julespulp214

3 ай бұрын

@@M4Studios I still think the entrance on Laketown doesn't make much sense with Bard hiding Bilbo and the dwarves on barrels without the antagonistic presence of Alfrid. I know you are trying to keep the point of view on Bilbo's side of the story as much as possible, but Bard is the hero of the story (although he is not the main character) and the original movies do a good work stabilishing him that way during his screentime on Laketown, as an opposite to the Master of Laketown (and Alfrid). Also, one of the biggest breakpoints of the story, even on your cut, still is the dwarves being allowed by the Master to continue their quest by entering the mountain, awakening Smaug and bringing death to Laketown. I'm just suggesting I little more background on that moment.

@M4Studios

3 ай бұрын

@@julespulp214 It makes sense, he says “we are approaching the toll gate” and earlier bard explicitly says “no one enters laketown but by leave of the master”. There you go, it is verbally communicated that they have a gate and that you can’t just enter freely. once they do, they have to sneak around. The inclusion of the alfrid scene is unnecessary detail and contributes nothing to our main characters, Bard isn’t really the same hes still a side character. The characterization of bard as a “villain of the town” in the eyes of the master is also not in the book, this is just not something that will make sense in my cut and no one will be happy to see more alfrid