Hi Ron; First of all, thanks a lot for the kind words about our company and for spending all the time you have testing the suit! We're sorry about the issues you ran into. There are a few "precisions" and comments we'd like to make to your video here, but in general we'll say that you are accurately pointing out some of the weaknesses in our system that we are working on resolving. We'll be pushing a lot of major software updates (also to existing users) in 2020, so a lot of it will be included there. But just a few comments to your video that will be valuable to other people looking also today: 1) Performance/data quality: It looks like using our clean-up filters wasn't an integral part of your workflow. It really should be - especially for users who have high quality demands like yourself. We recommend that you do a few minutes of going through the filters before every export. It's fast and easy. There's a quick guide here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/mHqszbaSZL3FnLA.html And a more in depth session you can watch here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/omqJxciKY6ueZqQ.html Lastly, if you are experiencing drift issues or want to do multilevel recordings, mastering the treadmill filter will help you a lot! Like seen in this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X4d1wZmPnZy5adY.html 2) You mention shipping. It depends very much on our backorder and our manufacturing setup, but we do ship within 2 weeks of an order for 90% of the time. We've had a few manufacturing issues in 2019 that affected some users, but currently we ship within a week. Customers can always ask before buying and we'll be completely honest about what they can expect. We also offer expedited shipping for another 50 USD (where we often can ship within one day of purchase). We ship with UPS and it takes a day or two for it to get to the US. Anyway, there are other things we could mention, but these are the bigger comments. Thanks again for taking the time and for your kinds words! We see that you invested in an Awinda suit and if that was the right fit for you, we are just happy that you are happy :) Thanks, Rokoko

@dave4981

4 жыл бұрын

Very impressed by the honest and professional response from Rokoko and wanted to give them props for that. It would have been very easy for them to respond to this by just attempting to divert blame and trying to save face. In fact I have seen many companies take this defensive approach in addressing YT reviews they don't like. However instead Rokoko began their response by openly accepting criticism and admitting their product has weaknesses. They then state they are actively working to address those issues and go on to helpfully and concisely state some things you can do to minimize or eliminate them. Instead of hemming and hawing they directly owned up to their shortcomings which I find refreshing and personally believe reflects their integrity and demonstrates that they care about the customer and aren't just trying to push sales and make near-term profits. I myself purchased a suit from Rokoko early last year but ended up returning it due to the unsuitability of my particular environment, and I can vouch that Rokoko customer support was fantastic. Responsive, easy, painless, and helpful. As mentioned by another commenter below: "customer support is impeccable af" Although their products might not have all the features of more expensive products from longer established and better funded companies just yet, I'm very impressed with the progress they have made so far and continue to make at a very affordable price point. Given the improvements they have made to date, as well as their focus on open transparency and customer care, I have no doubt they will continue to make great improvements and am looking forward to hearing more from them in the future. Keep up the good work guys!

@RokokoMotion

4 жыл бұрын

​@@dave4981 Thanks a lot for writing that comment!

@longshot4484

4 жыл бұрын

@@RokokoMotion you guys are the future of customers service. Your just next level

@RokokoMotion

4 жыл бұрын

​@@longshot4484 Thanks so much! :)

@birdisland

3 жыл бұрын

Please suggest me... I need motion capture solution for making short films.... my requirement is not extreme motions likw jumping or extreme fight or dancing. just simple motions like talking with actions. or walking or maybe running some times.... so what would you suggest if i go for cheaper solution?

I got a PN 2.0 one and recognized myself in so many of the disappointements you're explaining here in this video. I dreamed of this suit but when i got it it was just an accumulation of problems and became even more tiring than manual motion capture. I tought the Rokoko one would be the best solution while seeing all the other people reviews that didn't talked about this pelvis thing and also never mentionned the magnetic interferences that are a major problem of PN and that, i tought, Rokoko wasn't concerned about. But seeing your datas showed in video reveal all the lakes that were in PN and are in Rokoko too, no possibility to get two feets in air without getting glitch, no lying down, no acrobatic movements without risks to data glitch & clean up for hours... Looks like there's no affordable solution for motion capture nowadays for persons who want to create 3d movies on tight budget, X-sens and their suits costing like a car and their softwares more than a car insurance, that is not an option unfortunatly... Still thanks a lot for the honest review that permit me to think a bit more about it before paying 2.5k ! And let's hope for a better future for filmakers that want to go for mocap

Thanks for the honest review

Very Impressive technology! Can't wait for it to grow and get better

Lmao I didn't know you had your own personal channel there, *cough* Ron. Nice. Thanks for the review.

BASED and artpilled. Thanks for the video!

@Thiccwaifusinc

3 жыл бұрын

based on what

thanks for making this

Im about to invest in a mocap suit I agree with your assessment that there appears to just be way too much cleanup needed and these raw anims you show also appear to show a good amount of interpenetrations as well as foot slipping etc. way too much error for a 2500$ investment.I could almost get this level of cleanup anim from a Kinect ffs although I was debating whether to purchase rokokos 900$gloves as well I feel like you helped me dodge a bullet Thank you for your sincerity

Man, I'm going through the same shit you are. I invested for 11 Vive Trackers because Ikinema promised me Knee support, and come to find out they're getting bought out🙃. I'm getting an Xsens suit or PN Studio. I hope PN Studio is good, 7500 for full body mocap and finger support sounds like a good deal, and software isn't 3k/yr like Xsens. My buddy tested Rokoko and the data wasn't the best unfortunately, but their customer support is impeccable asf

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I really recommend Xsens (without having used it at this point) or Rokoko, PN Studio (again without having tried PN) takes a very long time to set up 45~ min to put on gear I've heard and also its more for a team of people, and the fingers are a good bonus but Rokoko is about to come out with gloves and appearently PN gloves and suit glitches out when it's near any extremely small amount of magneticity, like a keyboard, table, monitor, etc. It's worst about magnetics than rokoko from what I know. Oh also like I said, if you have 11 Vive trackers then you should be very well off still motion capturing with Vive. One of the big benefits of iKinema was it's guessing at where your arms and legs are, but if you have 11 trackers then you should still be fine, try out Animation Prep Studio or www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/vive-mocap-kit The latter is $100+ but you keep it forever (no rent software)

I have the original Perception Neuron for $1500. Your suit sounds like it is comparable to this suit. It has 32 sensors including the fingers. Drifting has been my main headache but from what I understand that will happen with all inertial motion capture systems. I was considering upgrading to the Perception neuron Pro for $4500 but I found out it also potentially drifts. That's even better car money and for that price there should be no drifting at all. I did learn that I should keep my takes to about a minute and calibrate if drifting occurs. I usually have long takes so maybe you should try this as well if you already are not. Also, I keep forgetting that there is an Anti Mag button to select for the legs or the entire body. Also, I used to use the Wifi until I found out I could just use a 30ft usb to usb mini connector and plug directly into the system. This also made the data cleaner as well. I am trying to get a new laptop (but the chip shortage is preventing this) and do this out in a park or something since I dont need wifi for it. Your boiler may be the issue. I originally had this when I was in a loft in Jersey. Really cool old building complete with metal beams throughout the 1800 sq ft space. I didn't realize initially but all the metal in the building plus all of my electronic equipment was causing issues...especially once the performer walked past one of the beams. Anyway, I still think it's a cool product but I really need to find a space with as little metal as possible.

This is SUCH an amazing, helpful review. It’s really difficult right now to choose an option for motion capture for home-based filmmakers. I’m happy to spend $2,500 because it’s so important to me - but not with so many issues :( Especially as my first project is about someone on the ground... sounds like they will just fall through space endlessly...

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I would say try it out, return it if it doesn't work out! I did find a work around for being on the ground; make sure one foot is on the ground, like on the sole of your foot, that way it was some kind of refrerence and won't fly away or bounce

Thanks for the review. Wish you got better results. What readings did you get from your magnetic sensor that you bought? I wonder if there is a DIY solution to blocking the magnetic forces effecting the suit? Also, were you able to try full sprints? Any decent data?

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

1. The magneticity is low. The problem with Rokoko and magnetics is every building in modern america has lots of metal and espesically for townhomes/apartments that lots of wifi that could interfere with the suit too. 2. There may be but I am pretty sure it's a software modification. Rokoko said there will be an update in feb/mar addressing more magneticty immunity 3. I was able to do full sprints at times, but only 30% to 50% the jumps/runs were usable Also yes lots of decent data, but the pelvis drift is common

So which suit are you buying next? I'm trying to decide on one myself!

thanks for the warning

Hi Ron not sure if this would help but could you shield the boiler room somehow? maybe hang something on the wall to weaken or cancel out metal/magnetic interference?

You sold this suit eventually... That's more than enough information.

Hi did you actually test for higher levels of EMF with your smartphone/tester in your apartment. If so, were there any noticeably higher hotspots. In my home, the average seems to be around 43 microTesla , unless I'm next to a lightswitch or wallsocket. The worst is next to a speaker so any stereos, alexa or google hubs should be avoided.

As a blender user the suit solution looks like more trouble than it’s worth, It’s really neat and compelling but for the price it’s way too buggy. I really appreciate the review, Perhaps in the future they’ll be easier ways of motion tracking. I am aware of people using the Xbox Kinect sensor for very basic motion tracking,But as an animator doing it by hand probably seems the best way to go about it.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I would recommend the Xsens suit!

I have the same issue with the leg! I’m in a studio, not a wooden cabin.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

How I fixed it was disconnecting the battery pack. Watch the whole video if you want help on that. Sucks I know :(

can you make a versus perception neuron pls?

👌👌

hey Ron, we are about to make the decision on buying rokoko as our mocap tool for our xr studio. after more than a year, how's the rokoko experience now?? we are about to use it for dance choreography, since you mentioned that if you jump around the suite will loss its precision, i just wonder if this issue has been solved or not? thanks for the video, great review.

@laurynassuliauskas167

2 жыл бұрын

Did you buy it? How did it go?

You don't need internet. The wifi router us intended to be used without internet. A dedicated wifi connection just for your suit and laptop is what you need if you have other traffic riñunning through your wifi, your gonna have a bad time.

Hi Ron! I received my Rokoko Smartsuit last week. My dedicated router is a TP-Link Archer MR200. I have only managed to make the Smartsuit connect one time to wifi. This is of course very frustrating. Maybe I need to get one of the routers that Rokoko recommends. Did you have problems with connecting to wifi when you had your suit?

@doekewartena5729

2 жыл бұрын

Did you disable your firewall?

@rogerjohnson5374

2 жыл бұрын

@@doekewartena5729 yes

@NewChannelof2012

2 жыл бұрын

@@doekewartena5729 I've been in contact with Rokoko support. There seems to have been a problem with the wifi hardware in my suit. I have to send the suit back to Rokoko for repairs.

Great review, thanks for much for making this. I was looking for an honest review of the suit. Perception Neuron are the only company who currently have gloves. What's your thoughts on their products? I'd love to see you review the PN Pro suit. Much cheaper than XSens and with finger tracking. That's what puts me off making that huge investment in Xsens. If I'm going to spend that much....I want finger tracking. I guess you need to weigh up the time you waste in cleanup Vs the extra money invested in a mocap suit. Anyway, again..great honest review. I never trust the data and results you see on the sales pages. They're always too perfect. Let's hope Rokoko up their game, sort out the magnetism issues like PN have, and also release gloves.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I can't say much about perception neuron. But I was made aware their suit takes a LONG time to put on, 30 to 40 min and is not magnetic proof. It uncalibrates if you get near a monitor or keyboard. So unless you have a friend helping you, you may get frusterated often. I honestly recommend getting VIVE vr, and the one time software for $110 for unreal engine because its about the same, no finger tracking though, but really good.l

@cardermedia

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the reply Ron. I thought the Perception Neuron Pro suit was anti-magnetic and was a fix for their first release. Are you saying you've heard the Pro suit is also bad? I definitely couldn't put up with the Rokoko suit if the data's that jittery. Cleanup would drive me mad. I got slightly better results with Ipi Soft!

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I can't say much about the neuron cause I haven't ever used it or plan on buying, but do your research and reach out to people who own it and don't have a stake in the company, so you get honest thoughts! Every suit has its pros and cons

@cardermedia

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Since my last comment I've been looking at the performance of the PN Studio mocap. It's pretty amazing. Like you say, you get what you pay for. Anyways, off-topic. This video's about Rokoko. Take care! :)

hey thanks for your review. I had tough time trying to get rokoko to work for me as well. So ended up sending it back. So what do you use now? xsens? I hope there was a good solution for finger mocap.. hopefully rokok gloves wil be good and stand alone. let us see some of your current works!!

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I kind of wish I sent mine back lol since Im buying Xsens. Yes I have an order coming in a couple weeks. Xsens has no finger capture, however they are partnered with Manus gloves, and have gloves built just for Xsens, although it its $4,500 and I am not quite sure if it works on Awinda Xsens ($7500) and may only work on the more expensive suit ($12000~)

@freenomon2466

4 жыл бұрын

Ron Ducats, so you still own rokoko suit. well they may improve the sftware n it could improve. Rokoko has great potential if they improve magnetic interference problem. noitom perception studio has crossgrade discount and you can buy PN studio, for 4k. Looks pretty good. So did you order the awinda system or the suit?

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

@@freenomon2466 They said they're doing a magnetic interference update in Feb-Mar but I am betting it'll be delayed like the gloves. I ordered the Awinda, should get it in the next day or two. I will post first impressions when I get it

@freenomon2466

4 жыл бұрын

Ron Ducats great Im sure you will like the awinda much better what do you use for facial animation if any?

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

@@freenomon2466 I am just getting into that but I have iClone and an iPhone 11 (10 also works) cause it has excellent data capture

What suit do you recommend?

I wish I saw this before I bought it... I'm having the same sort of problems. I just reached out to them. I'm out of my warranty date. So I really hope I can fix it

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I'm sure if you ask for a refund they'd give honestly

@AngelfaceTV

4 жыл бұрын

Ron Ducats considering it took 2 months for it to even get to me and then another 2 months for me to get it working in my software, I think that ship is sailed. But it’s a sad thing to think I could have gotten the same accuracy for a few hundred dollars with ipisoft. I’m going to try a few things they suggested first like changing the height and nothing else

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

Did you get it working?

Thanks for the honest review! I think i might also have to look for a better alternative. What alternative are you looking into?

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

Vive mocap via the Unreal Engine marketplace (requires a lot of trackers for high quality mocap) $120 + vive gear or Xsens $7,600~ Im leaning xsens

@ScientificGentlemen

4 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms Ouchie. I'm also looking into ipiSoft with the new Azure Kinect. Seems to give good results. But it does require calibration and setup. Something about a suit seems so convenient!

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

If you can afford it I really recommend the Rokoko, cause it is effective for low budget ($2550 including shipping). IpI support has sucked in my opinion, and way over priced for the end results

@mrtobycook

4 жыл бұрын

Nice Shapes I have an azure Kinect and using it ipisoft (or brekel) gave terrible results. You really need multiple kinects if you’re going this route, because as soon as it can’t see a limb it goes NUTS :) the software has zero common sense, so it assumes when it can’t see your left leg for a second that you have somehow contorted it behind you to an angle.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

@@mrtobycook Yeah iPi is really nothing more than a gimmick to me

You mentioned the large fit you well. How tall are you? I imagine you had to give all your measurements for accuracy.

@BryantFilms

3 жыл бұрын

There's measurements on the site!

Did you happen to calibrate your actor profile when you started doing your mocap? I think that could solve a few of your issues.

@KRGraphicsCG

4 жыл бұрын

@@user-qi1jz3mh3r Interesting... Metal is definitely something to look out for... I am hoping to create a volume with as little metal as possible

@KRGraphicsCG

4 жыл бұрын

@@user-qi1jz3mh3r Also, sadly, there is metal under the floor at times for things like pipes and wiring. You would damn near have to be in a place where there is no metal whatsoever

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

If you're on the fence I'd say buy it, they have a 30-day money back guarentee and are faithful to it

@KRGraphicsCG

4 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms I'm already getting one. It's either this or spend time popping in sensors, and putting on straps.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

let me know how it goes!

BTW as a writer/director not a 3d animator, my big issue is that I can’t animate body movements by hand - I’ve tried many many times with Iclone. :) the tutorials are terrible! :) also editing mocap data is so difficult. From my experiments so far without a suit (Kinects of various kinds, iPhone X, etc) I end up with bad data and have found it so far very difficult to “fix” with iclone. Iclone’s tutorials on body animation techniques are severely lacking! And their mocap cleanup stuff is so hard to follow for non-Iclone masters. :)

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

iClone does have some kind of function to support mocap data, though I don't even know how to make any edits in iclone yet. The problem though for you is using gimmicky software like iPi or iPhone X for motion capture, you need something like Vive Trackers if you want to get into the game of mocapping. Iphone X is really good for face motion capture data though

If you still have the vive system check out animation prep studio. Its free and gives quality comparable to ikinema orion.

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I didn't really figure out how to get that working but yeah that's a good alternative, at least if you have like 10 trackers. Ikinema orion was really good at guessing data without max trackers, I dont think UE4's plugin nor animation prep studio could be that good.

@mikealbert728

4 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms It works well with 6 trackers. Feet, elbows, waist, chest give usable fullbody mocap. Considering people were paying $$$$$ for Orion i dont think 2 extra trackers is unreasonable. I think its 90% as good as orion, its free, and it can also record entire scenes with multiple characters and props. Really with Orion off the market its a moot issue at this point until Apple puts orion on the iphone XVII RS Max for $3000

Is this suit is available in amazon

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

No probably not

The knees pop quite a lot. Hopefully filters fix that.

@BryantFilms

3 жыл бұрын

There is a filter specifically for that last i remember!

@FPChris

3 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms awesome. I just ordered the suit and gloves. The wait is going to kill me.

@laurynassuliauskas167

2 жыл бұрын

@@FPChris How did it go? Are you satisfied with it?

Not to be biased, but did you ever get a chance to look at Perception Neuron by Noitom. The most affordable set up is $1799 + fingers and most expensive is $7500 for full body and fingers. Software is also free and the system can be used just with straps or combined with a body suit set up like Rokoko. We're based in the US and have offices in LA and Miami, so if you ever want a demo or jump on a call you can reach out to us at contact@neuronmocap.com

@BryantFilms

4 жыл бұрын

I have. The Perception Neuron takes 30-45 minutes to put on (according to reviewers) and its very magnetic sensitive (so much so, putting it near a keyboard or monitor can break sensors, it's a multiperson needed setup) Xsens does not have the fingers, Magnus does have Xsens compatible gloves for $5000 or so.

@AAlvarez926

4 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms For Perception Neuron 32 our most affordable system I would say the first time you get up and running with the system it can be about 30 minutes. More advanced users suit up in 5-10 minutes, and this is with cables that are exposed. We made things easier with our PRO and Studio systems so now you're really looking at 3-5 min for set up. The one that is most sensitive is the Perception Neuron 32. The reason for this is that the sensors are very small and thus harder to disperse magnetic interference. The sensors don't break but would need to be recalibrated. PRO improved on this and Studio is near magnetic immune. As with anything it's important to be knowledgable about the equipment you're using, but also take care of it. I definitely suggest you shoot us an email if you're interested and we can have a video call to walk you through set up and capture. Regardless, wishing you success in your mocap journey!

Damn, was just about to buy this but this has stopped me. 2500 bucks is top of my budget so hand animation it stays then. Shame.

@BryantFilms

3 жыл бұрын

It prob is the best solution at this price. But if I were you, look into Vive VR mocap on UE4, $1299 build, no fees and could be better than rokoko. Watch my xsens vs rokoko video for info on that

@7_of_1

3 жыл бұрын

@@BryantFilms yeah, bought an occulus couple of years ago and got fed up with it, but will look at the vice for sure. Now gotta find a decent face capture solution and can’t decide which of those to buy either lol. Thanks

its sucks ... we have to pay for their software yearly!! PN gives better offers ... at least you would be paying onetime for their software

you're way too forgiving with this product. You're making a very big investment in something that presents too many issues. What you described is equal to all the reviews i hear from this suit. The magnetic issues. Rokoko; most people wanting to use these suits CLEARLY live in apartments or work in offices with a lot of magnetic fields around them; this simply isn't a viable solution for the suit. I can only imagine how many time you have to explain this problem to customers. I imagine the conversation is one step away from telling them they need to use the suit in a cabin out in a forest ... either severely reduce the price or find a completely different solution.

@RokokoMotion

4 жыл бұрын

Hey David, just wanted to point out that there are thousands of very happy users of our tools (that don't have to go to the forest :) It's all about working within the boundaries and using the clean-up filters in Studio. Here's a review from last week: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gX9-u8eGoMepprg.html Hope you find the solution that's right for you :) Best, Rokoko

@oravlakbelando5465

3 жыл бұрын

@@RokokoMotion Rokoko can you explain better or show some video or text talking clearly about the magnetic problems, how to solve them and where could works the suit fine and where not? Thanks

@RokokoMotion

3 жыл бұрын

@@oravlakbelando5465 Hi there, sure, we'd be happy to address this. However, here is not a good place for this conversation (there's a good chance we won't always be able to respond to questions on other people's videos). If you reach out to sales@rokoko.com (or support@rokoko.com if you are a customer already) or book a free online demo, our product specialists can tell you about it. In short, it seems like the problem is being exaggerated a bit here. It's true that the data will be affected if you are standing on a concrete floor or in a skyscraper og somewhere else with heavy metals all around you. That said, as long as you find a location either on the ground floor of a building or just in a regular building without metals all around, you'll be fine. And you can even take the suit outside if you don't have a room and do it in your garden etc. Our Smartgloves don't even have a magnetometer in them (tracking driven purely by gyros and accelerometer) so for them there's no magnetic interference at all. Anyway, we'd love to tell you more, but please reach out in one of our own channels. Thanks :)