I had a brass case stick after shooting steel case through my musket in the revolutionary war.

@foxtrap8826

4 жыл бұрын

You must know Brian Williams...huh?

@TheRetiredVeteran

4 жыл бұрын

Ammo for muskets didn't have cases, LOL.

@konner3593

4 жыл бұрын

I didn’t know muskets have casings. Oh wait, they don’t!

@noahhastings6145

4 жыл бұрын

@@konner3593 "Yes, Harvard? I've found your next professor! This guy's a fucking genius!!"

@MrShazaamm

4 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂

Debunking firearm internet myths should be a new series for your channel

Wolf sucks. That’s what we all need to tell everyone. Keeps it cheaper that way.

@Chief2Moon

4 жыл бұрын

Wesley Pipelayer Boy, I sure shoot a lot of Wolf 9mm ammo, no problems at all with it, or with following with brass cased rounds.

@wesleypipelayer7627

4 жыл бұрын

Dallas DautermanDallas ..... Shhhhh !!!! Don’t say that so loud. They might hear you. WOLF SUCKS!!!

@ericfox9648

4 жыл бұрын

God bless you

@berryreading4809

4 жыл бұрын

Yep it won't function at all in glocks or 9mm PCC's, there are a few pistols it will cycle in but it completely wears out the magazine feed lips in a few hundred rounds, plus it's extremely corrosive and will destroy any type of finish or coating, all while shooting 36" groups at 7yds... and don't even get me started on how terrible and inconsistent Winchester white box is! People should definitely only buy Remington brand 9mm.

@wesleypipelayer7627

4 жыл бұрын

Berry Reading .... Yup Berry, that’s correct. Thank you for reminding us all. We should probably warn everyone about the side-effects as well..... it usually causes halitosis, shrinking testicles, loss of brain cells, and of course... herpes simplex 7. Funny how nobody talks about that anymore.

I'm far from a firearms expert but I have always heard steel case will wear down your extractor faster than brass. It seems plausible seeing as steel is harder than brass but on the other hand extractors are still made from way harder steel than cheap steal cases.

@LowIQinHQ

Жыл бұрын

You’re right; it will wear it down faster. Flip side you could buy 100 more of them and more ammo from the money you would save

@ACommenterOnYouTube

4 ай бұрын

Lmao .. The steel case is MUCH softer than the steel extractor

Should be a regular feature: "Myth busting with Mac"

@funguy7873

4 жыл бұрын

Corwin Bos sounds good

Can we just stop and appreciate how good of a fucking day that was when you filmed this? Not a cloud in sight. I wouldn't know what to do, too many options hehe

@cyborgslayer2552

3 жыл бұрын

Where I live in Arizona is like this every single day, what I would do for a cloud....

@user-cb1ln8vc8d

3 жыл бұрын

@@cyborgslayer2552 pretty cloudy right now lol

@KellenChase

2 жыл бұрын

@@cyborgslayer2552 seriously treat rainy days as holidays 🌵

That ejection pattern on the CZ was consistent. Impressive.

@palumbo78

4 жыл бұрын

Leonard Miletello cz’s are simply amazing!

@TheBigman603

2 жыл бұрын

I love my p07

I have personally seen quite a few issues with steel cased 223 getting stuck in chambers. The fact that you have never had a stuck case is impressive, or maybe its that you usually aren't shooting low end ARs that might be more prone to problems.

@andrews.7754

11 ай бұрын

I've had a shiteload of cases stuck in my SKS. Steel cased ammo, especially the lacquered variety will certainly cause malfunctions.

Good video!! Being on a budget, I look for the cheapest ammo I can find, and yes, have been known to throw them all in a range bag, steel and brass, and shoot them all mixed in the mags. No issues so far

@glitchfactory98

6 жыл бұрын

Do not try with mixing steel and brass with ar15! I broke 2 extractors that way.

@mattig89ch

6 жыл бұрын

PrAKtikal Nurse +

@djhiggins4431

6 жыл бұрын

A properly built ar made from quality parts can and does shoot steel perfectly fine. That myth has also been busted

@jimvandemoter6961

6 жыл бұрын

The cheapest and most dependable ammo I can find is the stuff I load myself.

@praktikalnurse504

6 жыл бұрын

whatisjustice I am mostly an AK shooter, 5.45x39 and 7.62x39, I have 2 AR's I have assembled, mostly just for fun, and remembering my time in the military. Doesn't hurt to learn them all.

what about wood cased ammo with stone hollow points? : / just messing around.

@CNT12696

6 жыл бұрын

custard the pipecat I would honestly be interested in seeing that testing.

@Militaryarmschannel

6 жыл бұрын

Everyone knows that 9mm steel cased hollow points gum up 5.56 rifles.

@dogbugler

4 жыл бұрын

As long as you have the wood grain pointed down range, you won't have any issues. Love ur comment, custard

@richfarfugnuven6308

4 жыл бұрын

@G. Dileonardo my slingshot often guns up...

I love my CZ P-07. Happy to see it come out and bust a myth.

@MrCaptainmorgan420

4 жыл бұрын

Same. It's my favorite carry pistol.

@alexanderlee7247

3 жыл бұрын

Same. I just got one and was looking at ammo steel vs brass cased and he covers this experiment with our beloved CZP07

The only steel cased ammo I've ever had problems with was the Winchester forged. Ran countless rounds of Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear through my pistols with zero issues. Keep up the good work MAC, love the videos.

@ameeromedia5883

2 жыл бұрын

thanks for this!

@davidleethompson6065

Жыл бұрын

I got 300 rounds of Tula Steel Cased and haven’t used yet.. I just don’t want to mess up my Sigp320

Finally I can come out of the closet about using Tula.

@GarretGoodbarrel

6 жыл бұрын

No you can't. Back in you go before this comment gets any more likes.

@1991USsoldier

6 жыл бұрын

I use it in my Romanian SKS. Russian ammo for a Russian rifle. Why not?

@domino52o26

6 жыл бұрын

I use cheap steel bulk for fun in all my guns, not just the Russian designed ones. Just bought a case of 9mm brown bear last night.

@schocker3387

6 жыл бұрын

I feed Tula to my AUG

@1991USsoldier

6 жыл бұрын

Domino52o usa forged steel case from walmart worked really well in my pt24/7 pro compact. It was something like $0.12. A round.

No Malfunctions? Damn that pistol is broken!-LOL

@anglicky69

6 жыл бұрын

CZ should rename it the OP 07

@andrewgutierrez8714

6 жыл бұрын

C Kim I gave a thumbs up so you can have an even 100 likes haha

@melonrain6862

6 жыл бұрын

C Kim ...someone once asked me what sarcasm was and I said....

@melonrain6862

6 жыл бұрын

C Kim ...I tell ya what though it’s a prickly world out there in pistol land. Folks tend to get their feelings hurt real easy. Not me though, as long as you agree that M&P ‘s are the best...lol

@ckim6400

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Andrew! LOL

If the gun doesn't eat steel, the problem is your gun, not the ammo.

@trevord.6545

3 жыл бұрын

And if a gun won't eat steel it doesn't deserve brass

@johngraham9816

2 жыл бұрын

My p365 didnt like steel, but its only got 40 rds through it. Im just hoping it needs to be broken in first

@cannabiskiisdead5360

2 жыл бұрын

@@johngraham9816 depends on the steel cased ammo for the most part i run wolf ammo threw my ar and my 9mm and if its got the polymer coating stuff you are fine lacquered steel case is typical trash but i get stuff that will run and wolf hasnt done me wrong its a little dirtier but no corrosion wear. I say this cause i buy alot of surplus ammo.

Surprised the P07 isn’t more popular totally underrated.

Good to see the P-07 again

@memecommandomike4659

6 жыл бұрын

P-07 heaven! Although I must admit it tooks me a few days to build up the strength in my fingers to pull the slide back as easily as he does.

@s0nspark-public

6 жыл бұрын

Love my P-07s - they eat (and eject) practically anything...

@MrGible

6 жыл бұрын

s0nspark First magazine had a failure to extract on my p07 with steel ammo. However after 100 rounds of brass it hasn't had a problem since. The gun was extremely stiff then, it isn't now.

@jrthehorrible

6 жыл бұрын

Love my P07 that single action trigger is awesome

@rustyshacklfort9508

6 жыл бұрын

I’m not a glocktard imma CZtard and my p-07 is my carry gun .

I recently bought & used 9mm steel case ammo for the first time & my guns had no issues at all. From now on I will continue purchasing steel case ammo. Thanks for all of the videos you share with us. -Marco

I really love this! I'm a 47-year-old woman from South Texas and have a 9 mm Luger. I really like this guy and everything he has to say

@slideglide9418

2 жыл бұрын

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸♥️♥️♥️♥️🌎🌎🌎🍓🍓🤪I'm a 69 year old man from San Antonio, and I have a 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp, and a .357 magnum, and a I like everything this 47 year old lady says.

@mikewithers299

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a 59 year old man in Florida, and I approve this message🤣

I've been a viewer of your channel for years. I remember you doing a video years ago about wolf steel ammo and dispelling the myths about it.

I love my P07!! Its fed everything I've thrown in it

Thank you for being thorough and straight forward. By the way the scenery is gorgeous. Be blessed bro

I've heard this same myth. While I never had that issue in handguns, I figured it may be true for straight wall rifle cases. Thanks for being awesome Tim.

I remember when steel cased ammo was lacquer coated before polymer coated steel cased ammo. Maybe that is how the failure to extract issue came into being. The lacquer would melt and gum up in a hot chamber and make a fired case stick. That is just what I heard I never experienced it myself. In reference to the CZ P07 I own one and have own other CZ handguns in past. I have yet experienced one fail. CZ's are deadnuts reliable.

@monsta3038

4 жыл бұрын

Its very true old military surplus is dunked in lacquer ive seen it happen in person it took achamber hone to get the melted heat bonded mess out of the gun

@mp40jager

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, the ar ammo is different than 9mm. When Wolf first started making ar ammo it was lacquer coated. The coating would melt in a hot chamber and cause issues, they then switched to polymer coatings and the issue was resolved. I have seen this with 9mm also. Some of the early 9mm had a lacquer coating. I believe the recent 9mm does not.

@MystikalDawn

4 жыл бұрын

I shoot surplus lacquer coated steel ammo through my SKS and have had no issues, she's gotten pretty hot and dirty a few times too, but like he said the 7.62x39 round shape helps it not stick. And I tear the rifle apart and clean it top to bottom every time I use it religiously so that definitely helps too. Haven't tried steel cased pistol ammo yet.

@madmade6877

3 жыл бұрын

@@MystikalDawn it's all lacquer coated now.its not a old ammo..all steel ammo is laqer coated now .alllll of it

@MystikalDawn

3 жыл бұрын

@@madmade6877 no its not, I have 9mm winchester ammo thats steel cased and not lacquer coated.

I've had carbon almost all the way back to the rim on steel rifle ammo. I've had more issues firing remington ammo than ever from firing steel.

I'll listen to you Tim before all others.Thank you for this tidbit as I will now try some steel.

the audio in this video was awesome no wind noise. keep up the great work and thanks for the videos.

The first 50 rounds I used with my Taurus G3 were Wolf steel cased ammo. I then switched to 100 rounds brass. The gun ran flawlessly no issues.

@andrewkenny5889

3 жыл бұрын

Taurus’s don’t run flawlessly

@44andFit

3 жыл бұрын

Ammo is hard to find right now. So i run whatever i can find through my g3c, which ends up being mostly wolf. ZERO issues ever. Taurus came a long way with the new g3c!

@MikeSmith-ty7dd

3 жыл бұрын

Andrew Kenny the newer G series is not like the older Taurus stuff. My G3 has run everything I’ve fed it without a single issue

@jaydreckmeier5608

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate this comment, as I just ordered a g3c and 200 Rounds of wolf.

@JustScottPaid

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewkenny5889 I've had my G2c for over 2 years now. Over 2k rounds with no problems. Didn't care for the trigger, changed that.

I don't listen to the What If Brigade! When a case gets stuck it is usually because the extractor did not grab onto the rim and that can be caused by several things. Good video MAC.

@samuelconsentino8547

6 жыл бұрын

MrSumGuns i used to exclusively shoot steel cased ammo in my ar15’s until i got 3 cases unbelievably stuck in 3 different ar’s in one day rendering the gun useless without some sort of rod to knock it out. Also had a rifle rip the rim of the case off, had to get it out with a wall anchor from home depot

Thanks for the video Tim! I'd love to see that Military Arms Channel do more vids like these!

I love your sense of humor! It probably disturbs a lot of people but I get a big charge out of it. I just bought a lot of Steel for several different Investments. This is a wonderful time for me to say thank you.

When I've heard of this is was with lacquer coated steel cased ammo in AR15's and it was over the course of at least a few hundred rounds, enough to get the gun hot which softens the lacquer supposedly. I've personally seen it happen once with a friend's AR but there's no way to know for certain that that actually was the cause. I still shoot lots of steel cased ammo but I have dedicated range/practice guns and separate carry/defensive guns.

This is such an obscure and weird myth, that I no longer feel like a gun nerd. Thank you!

You’re the to go guy for reviews or purchase of guns for me. I’ve been following your Channel for few years now and I have learned a lot . Extremely knowledgeable and informative … Amman brother🙏👍🇺🇸

Haha, love the snarkiness during the segment where you shot the brass-cased ammo. Absolutely fantastic :D

I always thought the steel case ammo causing brass to stick myth was back in 80s and 90s when the steel case ammo had lacquer coated cases. Maybe it is still coated the same? Idk..... I appreciate the test Tim!

@jreyman

4 жыл бұрын

As far as I can tell, TulAmmo still is. The cases on that Wolf ammo looked like it was dull grey and uncoated, unlike the TulAmmo I've used, and cursed at, and never bought any more of.

Hey Tim, first off thank you for your service. I have to say that I have had more trouble with Winchester white box than I ever had with tulammo. I mean sure it’s dirty, but CLP seems to work just fine for clean up. I do tend to buy a lot of the federal aluminum case to because it’s a pretty good value as well. In either case I have no trouble with either of them.

Thank you for this demonstration. Talk is cheap. Actually being there while it is done is priceless.

Thanks Tim for busting these myths. I have never had this happen to any of my firearms ether. The people that come up with these myths don't know anything about firearms a ballistics. Also i shot both steel cases and they work just fine. Keep up busting those myths bro.

I love my p07 I appendix carry it everyday such a good gun!

I’d love to see a series where you disprove all the Internet gun guy BS. Great video as always Tim.

@owainrichards4372

6 жыл бұрын

Mr FNH be a long series so many stupid myths

@mr_fnh

6 жыл бұрын

Owain richards I’d be down to watch. Tim’s got what they call IT. When it comes to making KZread videos.

@owainrichards4372

6 жыл бұрын

Mr FNH totally agree would be really funny

Thank you sir, it was cool to see someone actually test this out 🙏🏾

Well done video.... getting my first fire arm after retiring from the Army about 6 years ago. Just needed to get brushed up on what's out there. I'll buy what is more affordable and do what every gun owner should be doing.... keep their weapon clean...

Got 2000rnds of Wolf steel 62gr through my Bushmaster M4. Not a single issue

@ricklyons6125

4 жыл бұрын

www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

@danielhet6286

4 жыл бұрын

Wolf is great

@ricklyons6125

4 жыл бұрын

@@danielhet6286 and other hilarious lies you can tell yourself.

@danielhet6286

4 жыл бұрын

@@ricklyons6125 do what you like, thousands and thousands of rounds have never gave me a single issue.

@ricklyons6125

4 жыл бұрын

@@danielhet6286 Read the link I posted above. along with the video with it.

I love your passive aggressive commentary

Hi Tim- thanks for continuing MAC. -Robert

Great video!!! I've never had this problem in my Gen 1 P07. I put 300 rounds of steel cased when i first got it and have since fired close to 12k brass and not one malfunction

I've never heard of this myth before now. I've fired thousands of rounds through all my firearms and never had an issue when combining steel, brass or aluminum case. In fact, I usually put my firearms through hell, at the start, so that I can get an idea of their limits. So I've fired low to high end ammunition and even poor to good reloads. I don't think the case has anything to do with it. There is only 3 things (other than broken parts) that I can think of that would cause your pistol to fail like this. 1. You are using a cheaply made/poorly manufactured pistol to begin with. 2. You are not maintaining your pistol properly (cleaning). 3. You are using polymer coated ammunition in a low caliber semi auto pistol. (or even rifle) #3 is from personal experience. I've noticed that the polymer coat will sometimes rub against the entrance of the barrel when loading. After a couple hundred shots you'll get a small build up at the entrance, causing your shell to stick.

My Smith M&P AR15 will not eject steel case ammo. I’ve tried several times over the years. My AK and my M1A eat steel all day long and never complain. I’ve never tried to shoot any steel case handgun ammo.

@_Epictetus_

4 жыл бұрын

My buddies did the same thing but my DPMS never had that issue

@2004ant1

4 жыл бұрын

Clean your AR. I have the same rifle and have had no issues shooting tula. My rifle eats everything with no failures ever.

@apjosh7814

4 жыл бұрын

I have that same gun and it shoots steel case fine, maybe it needs cleaning..

Love your channel! I just tried my first 200 rounds of steel case ammo. The cz75 sp01 I was using has not been cleaned for about 1k rounds using brass. I then shot the steel case ammo. Worked great. Then went back to my blazer brass for about another 200 rounds. There were no failures to extract or any other problems. However the speed at which the brass shells were getting ejected were noticeably slower. They just sort of limped out of the gun dropping pretty much at my feet instead of shooting off 5 or 6 feet away. Even YOUR ejection pattern on the first 3 shots of the brass looked noticeably slower. There is something there to the MYTH!!!

Excellent video! I too have never had any problems mixing steel cased ammo and brass ones. Hell, I have even mixed them in the same magazine, with no bad results. Thanks!

Is there really any surprise that the CZ didnt fail?... didnt think so! Just 1 of many reasons i carry a P07

@850spirates3

6 жыл бұрын

O4 HEMI besides running self defense ammo through my p07 once a month,it eats wolf and Tula almost exclusively. To this day zero malfuction and at 2000 rds later still going strong. It's also my daily carry.

@57HEMIviken

6 жыл бұрын

850's Pirates my sp01 tactical has way more rounds thru it than my p07 but i've never had a malfunction from either

@swinn5888

6 жыл бұрын

good god man where the hell do you live that you have shoot somebody once a month, because I don't want to move to that neighborhood. hahahaha

@davewebster5120

6 жыл бұрын

Love the p07. It actually passed the gauntlet he just didn't double tap the one light primer strike.

@donaldweber7636

6 жыл бұрын

Funny, I know many CZ shooters who carry spare take down pins. Seen a couple pins break myself.

Cz's are just insanely underated guns.. There only weakness is that they get very hot..

@tomtigey2063

4 жыл бұрын

thats why i bought the eaa witness 10mm combat sport elite. it never gets hot and never fails a singal round no matter what casing it has. and is dead accurate . it tops cz if you ask me. its the better clone of cz.

@SylentONE

4 жыл бұрын

@@tomtigey2063 I'd go for the baby eagle instead. Just more aesthetically pleasing

I've been shooting hardcore for around 25 years. Not once have I had an issue with steel case ammo of any brand. As far as steel casing not sealing as much as brass....just clean the machine after each use. Thanks, MAC

Tim, please do more videos like this one! It was great!

We need to have many more people to do this exact test with many different firearms to conclude with high certainty that this is not a problem. I don't believe that this is a problem and I think your 30 years of experience is also a good case against this myth. I am just being critical of one test with one firearm is simply not enough data to conclude with high certainty but I like your attitude and your will to test things KEEP IT UP!

I see a P07 in the thumbnail and I click on the video 😆

Thank you I was trying to decide what type of ammo should I get an you answered my question with this great video you put out

Happy to see the P-07 as I own a P-09 in .40 S&W myself. An interesting encounter I had myself Is my Ruger AR-556 (which is not chrome lined) has in fact had this issue with steel case ammo shot before brass cased ammo caused the rim of the casing to tear off failing to extract. In my tested though this issue only occurred with freedom munitions re-manufactured M855 ball the second I ran American Eagle XM193 this issue ceased. A quick chamber cleaning made the M855 shootable again without malfunction. I think this only fortifies your claim though early on in the video. (Cool video I did enjoy it alot!!!)

You need to limp wrist it more. That's how your critics do it!

@SylentONE

4 жыл бұрын

LMAO

@scott9277

3 жыл бұрын

Even a glock will fail if you limp wrist it

Noting wil happen it is a CZ it is the worlds best or will i say in my eyes

@FlyboyUS

3 жыл бұрын

I have all CZ PISTOLS

Tim I counted and that was only 99 rounds of steel ammo. If it would have been a 100 even it would have happened for sure!! LOL I've done the same thing and have NEVER had an issue. I've even mixed in the same mag before on the last mag of the day. Thanks for all the work you do for us in making these videos!

I've been shooting steel case ammo for over 10 years never had a problem. No stuck cases, no broken extractors nothing but good times.

Hate the new range

@wewlad8697

5 жыл бұрын

Probably what caused the p365 to fail

I’ve heard all the reasons why not to use steel as well. I’ve never used it due to the manufacturers clearly state not to. I have the kind of luck that my gun would explode and somehow they could tell it was steel case ammunition. I don’t think that would happen, but that’s my only reason. I’m getting too old to pick up brass. With steel I could buy one of those magnets to save my back.

@highspeed9518

4 жыл бұрын

Well you cant reload or well do anything with the steel cases,scrapyard wont even take them sooooo.......

Thanks for the demo, appreciate it!

Good video Tim, in fact I use your video's to help make decisions on future gun purchases. Thanks.

P-07 running like a...well like a CZ runs. Huh, funny, I didn't see any hot brass bouncing off your hat. OH that's right, not shooting a Glock.

@markh.6687

4 жыл бұрын

Or down the BACK of your shirt! Ouch!

@magnoliabowhunters2869

4 жыл бұрын

I’m on my second glock roughly 5k rounds between the two and have never been hit anywhere around the face nor my body in general for that matter, am I missing something?

@NINJA3XPR3SS

4 жыл бұрын

My Glock likes giving headpats

@kellyshea92

4 жыл бұрын

Never had a issue with my P-07

@Makeematnite

4 жыл бұрын

Oof size large

👍good information.... My s&w m&p AR-15 i would bring 200rds of wolf ammo an around 190rds i would get a case stuck.failure to extract an the rim of the case was gone.i tryed mortaring the rifle..nothing so if i shoot steel i keep the cleaning rod out an on the rifle.rubber bands or Velcro/zip ties..this is just this rifle. My COLT i shot 1000 rds no problem green laq. Wolf..just my experiences.good luck

@lucky43113

6 жыл бұрын

I have the sport 2 and smith told me shoot steel case and you will void your warrenty

@mikeyob4271

6 жыл бұрын

hyphy geezy Thank you 👍

@mikeyob4271

6 жыл бұрын

lucky43113 Thank you..its a training gun.I've shot alot with it.carbine 1-5 no problems yet.clean an keep a wet bolt.good to go.

@lucky43113

6 жыл бұрын

Mike Yob be though for s&w to prove you usef steel case anyway

@mikeyob4271

6 жыл бұрын

lucky43113 I been using brass for class.. Lots of gun ranges by me won't. Let me shoot steel ammo only 2 gun ranges.so buying brass ammo is safe to shoot anywhere.

Excellent video, thanks for dispelling this myth. Semper Fi!

The problem I had with steel was associated with the lacquer that used to be on all steel cased ammunition. Some of the lacquer would transfer to the chamber while shooting. Wolf actually came out with that polyformance coating to eliminate that issue. I noticed the issue with Wolf 7.62x39, but not other Russian brands.

Probably the same folks who claim you'll run into legal trouble using "gimmick" ammo in self defense. Keep doing what you're doing, Tim. To hell with the haters lol.

@brandoncharleswilson

6 жыл бұрын

Kurt Feltenberger I'm not worried about any of that.

@MatteoSixSeventyFour

6 жыл бұрын

Kurt Feltenberger name a single case where that has happened? BTW that BS was a hypothetical proposed by lawyers who shoot in a discussion on some gun forums. Later Ayood mirrored similar concerns. And Boom, from that and over time it morphed into, it IS something an overzealous prosecutor will use. And if it were ever brought up. Any lawyer worth their salt can easily dismiss that when they bring up the fact that modern self-defense ammunition in use by civilians and LE uses expanding rounds.

@williampeebles3218

6 жыл бұрын

It is just one of a couple dozen things you can do that will make your lawyer's job easier if you have to use your gun in self defense. Will that, by itself, mean you are in trouble? No. It is just something an anti-gun lawyer can throw at a gullible jury to which your lawyer will have to respond. Hopefully, any case we might be involved in will be straightforward and it won't matter in the end.

@fabiantaveras8458

6 жыл бұрын

Kurt Feltenberger define gimmick ammo?

@BravoGorilla

6 жыл бұрын

Kurt Feltenberger That's only a concern if you have hired a poor defense attorney. In almost all cases of a self-defense shooting, the ammunition, caliber, and weapon are immaterial in determining your guilt. If a prosecutor brings that up and your attorney doesn't immediately object on the grounds that it is entirely irrelevant, you hired a bad attorney. What's relevant is whether the suspect either posed a legitimate threat to your life or a perceived threat (depending how the relevant law is written) and whether you used appropriate force to deal with it. That's it. I know of only one case in which the caliber was even brought up as a potential relevant detail. That was the trial of Harold Fish, but even then the prosecutor didn't wind up being able to go after him for the 10mm. It was shut down almost immediately. Ultimately, your ammunition choice is almost never going to be any kind of relevant factor in your trial. The only time it might be an issue is if the ammo overpenetrates and hits a bystander or if an improper cartridge causes injury to someone. The law isn't magic and lawyers aren't wizards. You won't be put away for using R.I.P. or Zombie Defense ammo unless it has been specifically prohibited in your jurisdiction. I applaud your decision not to use gimmick ammo, but only because it's usually inferior to or identical to and more expensive than actual, proper defensive ammunition.

What is true is that if you accidentally close a tab in most browsers on a computer, CTRL SHIFT T, reopens it! (Command-Key Shift T, for Mac) This has absolutely nothing to do with the video, just thought I'd share that.

Probably the best video youve ever done. You just proved what ive been saying for over twenty years.

Always an outstanding video and presentation.

Hi , I think most of the steel case ammo myths come from the fact that a lot of the steel cased ammo being imported was cheaply made crap with poor quality control. The problems were due to the dimensions being out of spec,and the rounds being used in a tight chamber, not the material the case was made from.

@OriginalBongoliath

6 жыл бұрын

Larry This is the most plausible reason. We now have ignoramuses here bringing up the "lacquer" case myth!

@Larry-gs8gb

6 жыл бұрын

Zac Dempsey I agree Wolf is some good ammo, have had issues with.Brown bear and Tula though. My glock 19 will feed it ,but my vintage high power and cz 75 don't like it.

@Marvin.Runyon

6 жыл бұрын

I recently read that Ruger commonly has tight AR chambers, and I have had stuck steel cases a few times over the years in my SR-556. I also picked up the notion somewhere that firing a few brass cased rounds will "grab" any carbon deposits and pull them out, cleaning out the chamber. Could be BS, but more plausible than the myth Tim busted.

@kevinstafford4475

6 жыл бұрын

Larry is right IMO. I still have some old (10 plus years) Wold steel case and it is dimensionally out of spec. It will not drop freely into a 5.56x45 chamber and needs a slight nudge. This same anmo also causes nothing but issues in one of my piston guns. Problem with steel case is the majority of it comes from overseas and QC is always questionable.

@DaveSmith-cp5kj

5 жыл бұрын

Actually the real source is LuckyGunner, but not because they put bad info but because people extrapolated and made conclusions where there were none. www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ "When heated, steel does not expand and contract the same way that brass does - in fact, brass expands 1.5 times as much as steel. The shape of the .223/5.56 case was designed with brass as the case material; this plus the fact that steel doesn’t expand - and more importantly, contract - like brass means that extraction will be naturally more difficult." Note the comment section and how some people are saying things that LC never even wrote. Steel cases will jam up if followed by a brass case but this only happens on rifle cases not handgun cartridges, as MAC notes in the video. Plus this primarily happens on 5.56, usually not on 308 where the port pressure seems to be strong enough to rip the case out in my own experiences (the brass is darkened after firing showing it is pulling out some fouling). Ironically, in an attempt to bust a real myth, MAC has accidentally started a new one. There are people who now say that steel case never has extraction issues and any claim of that is fake, when you can indeed have extraction issues by shooting a bunch of steel in rifle then switching to brass without cleaning the chamber. I have personally seen a steel to brass case jam and never knew why until LC posted their article. Really nearly all myths start where someone takes someone else's words out of context, and people run with it. Kind of like how democrats say Trump is a racist who says Mexicans are rapists, even though anyone can see the clip of Trump saying rapists and drug dealers are among illegal aliens (which ironically does not imply nationality, but the leftists went with the stereotype).

Haha CZ Eats Everything Including Sig

@tomtigey2063

4 жыл бұрын

but my eaa witness 10m combat sport eats them all. its the better half of cz clones.

@DB.KOOPER

4 жыл бұрын

CZ is head and shoulders better then modern SIG anything.

What would be a better test would be to clean and get running with no issues your Sig P365, since that is the firearm you had the issues with. Run brass first (to confirm function), then run steel, then run brass again. The potential issue may be more likely in certain guns.

Glad you discussed the caveat of the nitride barrels and higher pressures with rifle cartridges.

As Flava Flav said, “Don’t believe the hype!”

I shoot an assload of steel case ammo i literally never have any problems with it. Those guys were just stupid. I sometimes have a hug bag of mixed brass and steel and aluminum and shoot it have no problems

@grizwoldstad9956

6 жыл бұрын

A-men, most of the failures I have witnessed, and had come to the shop have been caused by the appendage attached to the trigger finger, and the absence of grey matter with which to lube the tendons that expelled any usable knowledge

Great info man, thanks for your video

Great video, I've shot steel case through my rifles and handguns. Never had any issues.

I shoot mostly wolf Barnaul ammo, more specifically the lacquered milspec ammo. I hear people at the range all the time tell me they won't shoot that garbage because the lacquer melts and causes cases to stick. It's crazy, for $200/1000rds of 556 or 545 I'll deal with the extra smoke and get more range time for the money. I've had more problems out of brass ammo than steel.

@Militaryarmschannel

6 жыл бұрын

That's old myth has been going around for decades. It's hogwash, as you know, but Wolf actually changed the coating because they go so tired of the misinformation. Sadly, it's just shifted to people saying that carbon build us due to the use of steel is the real problem. Meanwhile, many nations continue to use steel cased ammo with lacquer without issue. I should make a video of a 5.45x39 spent case with lacquer with me holding a propane torch to it. It's interesting to do because that lacquer does not come off even with extremely high temps.

@spankysbasement

6 жыл бұрын

Military Arms Channel - that would be a good short vid that people need to see. Neither the lacquer or polymer burns off.

@kyleeaton2717

6 жыл бұрын

Spanky's Basement but what about the ammunition that Iraqveteran8888 was running through that AK when it started gunking up the action? I've never bought lacquered ammo so I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing but the ammo I'm talking about had some sort of lacquer or something around the primer that was melting.

@steeltalon2356

6 жыл бұрын

Re:iv8888 meltdown. That was an issue with the primer sealant flaking off (not melting) and gumming up the firing pin channel. Not the case coating. It had nothing to do with the steel case.

@spankysbasement

6 жыл бұрын

kyle eaton That is primer sealant, it keeps moisture out if the ammo for long term storage. It does come off but I've never had it cause a malfunction, I shoot 2500rds one day with my AR using the Echo trigger and had no issues other than some light primer stikes which happens even with PPU ammo. I blame the trigger for that.

Cool upload but... I still won't use steel case.

Thanks for this video; I also weary of the steel-case bashing, when that's just about all I run in rifles and pistols. I I did have a brass case stick in my (chrome-lined) SU16 and I ruined an aluminum cleaning rod driving it out. I had shot steel previously; since giving the chamber a good scrub, there have been no problems. In your earlier video about Wolf ammo, ISTR that you had mentioned fouling in rifle chambers as a more likely cause than lacquer or polymer melting, but it was still rare. I have often used that video to try to lay to rest 'steel is crap' arguments.

I did a test a long time ago on steel cased and brass differences. When you fire a brass case, the brass case expands a bit then retracts. It makes the extraction easier because it retracts. This was measured with a Micrometer before firing and after firing. The Steel cased ammo when fired would expand then not retract as much. It would still be snug in the chamber and would be harder to extract.

It didn't jam up because you were shooting near a soybean field... 🤣 LOL j/k - Great video!

@falafelbomber

4 жыл бұрын

Richard Sabo Cz was in its native home defending the motherland

That's because people don't clean their guns regularly.

So glad you did this video and kill the myth.... highly appreciated. It takes experience, courage and honesty to clarify the truth with facts and experience.

I have never had steel stick in my handguns but a few in my AR's but not all my AR's. Good video.

Maybe SIGS aren't as good as their fanboys want to believe they are 🤷‍♂️

@charlessmith6412

4 жыл бұрын

But then again nothing is as good as their fanboys say they are.

@marcuslocklear7026

4 жыл бұрын

Yes they are I’m defending the fact I just purchased a sig m18 lol 😂😂😂😅😅😅

@charlessmith6412

4 жыл бұрын

Marcus Locklear: Congratulations on your purchase. I'm sure you'll be happy with it and spend many happy hours at the range or elsewhere. In case you are wondering, this is a sincere statement, with no sarcasm intended.

I work at a range seen steel choke lots of firearms handguns & rifles alike. I SEENT IT

@grizwoldstad9956

6 жыл бұрын

Was it the steel then brass or poor gun maintenance, My point is if the myth were true then it would happen every time with every fire arm. Folks have told me that using 7.62x51 in a Remington 700 hunting rifle is dangerous because it is over pressure. Did I believe that NO, any gun ammo combo has the potential for failure, it does not follow that every failure is going to carry to every gun.

@steeltalon2356

6 жыл бұрын

Probably Tula steel case as it is noctoriously under powered and can cause short stroke malfunctions in guns that like hotter ammo.

@samuelconsentino8547

6 жыл бұрын

Tom Ollie im not a die hard brass fan boy but every time ive used steel it has choked the gun. Hard stoppages. Mainly rifles, never had an issue with pistols

@jjsemperfi

6 жыл бұрын

Tom Ollie I’ve had numerous issues using steel case ammo in many different types of firearms. AK’s fire steel case no problem because they’re over gassed like no ones business. I’ve found some handguns can shoot them all day long and others can’t. Even my wife’s G19 will gum up with the nasty Winchester USA Forged steel case crap.

@budstermcgreen6360

6 жыл бұрын

Steel Talon I find that the Tula ammo is hotter than most American made range ammo..shoot it thru a small gun and can feel the difference. Tula is only one that this applies to...but that is my felt experience..a chronograph may say different..but it definitely feels hotter to me.

Are you going to rerun the P07 through the gauntlet since you forgot to use the re-strike capability of the gun the first time? I remember you mentioned something about it at the end of the original video and this reminded me.

When the S&W M&P auto pistols first came out, I bought a 9C version of it and took it to the range with several boxes of Wolf steel cased 9mm. After several mags full of fairly fast shooting, the action failed to open when a round was fired. I couldn't budge it with all my might. I took it to the gunsmith locally, and he said the lacquer on the Wolf ammo had melted in the chamber and glued the case in there. After that, I swore off steel cased ammo.

@jerrodbates8480

3 жыл бұрын

Similar thing with my m&p.... I shot tula with my g30 and EVERY case ejected hit me right in my glasses between the eyes!

To be fair CZs are built to never fail and they deserve to have the reputation they have all over the World.

@kingbaldwiniv5409

6 жыл бұрын

Meme Commando Mike, true. If he wanted a real challenge, user the Sig, an RP9, or another jam-tastic masterpiece. It looks like three steel case was not there issue. . .

@tfeltmat2903

6 жыл бұрын

Meme Commando Mike all guns are built to be reliable, and most of them are. I have 4 CZ guns and they've all had a failure at some point.

@kingbaldwiniv5409

6 жыл бұрын

T Feltmat, your equivalence is bad comedy.

@kingbaldwiniv5409

6 жыл бұрын

T Feltmat, there is a major difference in manufacturing quality standards depending on the manufacturer. In operations, project management, quality management, we track on all of these things and a lot of people think they're fixing quality issues but never really do. CZ gets rid of the initial "break-in-period" by operating actions in an automated fashion of all the pistols that come out of the factory. A lot of Manufacturers do not do this. Glock 19 from the Gen 4 batch notoriously had a break-in. That shouldn't make a lick of sense if they actually work the actions as they should have coming out of the factory. A lot of 1911 manufacturers claim a break-in period when in fact the equipment is just not ready to use yet. It is a cost cutting measure. They leave the last stages of making a quality product to the customer. Yes, the goal is reliability. But no, the techniques employed and the dedication to that objective are not the same.

@kingbaldwiniv5409

6 жыл бұрын

Pew Pew Clan, thank you captain anecdote, would you care to be a bit more specific.?

I really like you, and I have nothing against steel cased ammo. I also do not support people randomly saying "X happened because of Y" online without facts. However... You really have to understand this is not how to "bust a myth". If you really want to bust this myth you have to do a massive test, with a sample size of weapons larger than one. This video is only relevant for your gun / the argument with those comments. An example of a test that could be used for statistical purposes: www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ This is an actual test / "myth buster" because they tested the ammunition in multiple firearms, tested multiple variants/producers of steel cased ammo, and logged the results / changes every 2,000 rounds. Testing this way you have more confidence in saying an issue was actually caused by something, especially if you experience it multiple times / consistantly. Testing with a sample size of one you can say it was caused by something, but your answer would have significantly less value due to the fact that said issue could have been caused by any arbitrary factor unknowingly.

Great vid Tim. I enjoy shooting steel case in IDPA and "Tactical" courses and hearing people tell me I'm going to have failures all day. No problems, rank top 3. lAWL!

I would LOVE you to do a myth busting, or confirming, series!