Did I forget details/misconceptions? Do you still have questions? Feel free to write those in the comments (I recommend writing "standalone" comments after a week, if you answer directly to this one, I might miss your message when some time has passed, due to how Yt sorts comments in YT Studio 😅) Shout-outs to the artists (links to their galleries in the Description): Kimberly80 Sara Morello Jenny Dolfen Ted Nasmith Books mainly used for this video: LotR, The Silmarillion, The Letters of Tolkien (mainly letter 131), Unfinished Tales, Morgoth's Ring

@rebeccalyn9908

Жыл бұрын

I think that this is a great topic and you did an excellent job in explaining the lore of the rings. I really enjoy your Tolkien content. I've been a lifelong fan of Tolkien, being introduced to The Hobbit via the animated movie at 3 and by 12 had read The Hobbit and the LOTR books. At 42 I'm engrossed in the histories and your videos help connect dots that I missed in my own readings.

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Yes it's fascinating how many dots there are to connect. I also often miss/forget details and then notice that they could be connected years later. I also pretty much always learn something new.

@istari0

Жыл бұрын

I would think Sauron would have had a more direct role in the creation of the first 16 Rings of Power than just observing and touching them now and again. They have a degree of maliciousness built into them that is not present in the 3 Celebrimbor crafter after Sauron left.

@rebeccalyn9908

Жыл бұрын

@@istari0 I've always assumed that because Anatar aka Sauron was the one who introduced the Elves to the whole crafting of magical rings... I've just in my mind always compared it to it being similar to Melkor sowing his discord, I guess just his mere presence and intent in his guidance on creating the rings was enough to corrupt them. I also find it curious that Celibrimbor chose to forge the 3 in secret from Sauron. C is one of my favorite characters and I find it so cool that the son of the creator of the Silmirals was the creator of the 3. It adds something extra to the story.

@Crafty_Spirit

Жыл бұрын

Hi Chris, regarding 4:17 I recall that Gandalf states to Frodo that it was clear to him from the start that Bilbo found a Great Ring, though he does not specify why, so I assume it was intuitive perception

I absolutely love that you always give credits to the artists, this is so important!

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Yes I agree. I always try to credit them and think that should be standard

Perfect title because I had no idea there were 20 rings - so fun to learn about them!

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Yes the amount we also briefly discuss (if it's counted towards the Rings of Power). Hope you liked the video ^^

@reatrdosbenkron6194

Жыл бұрын

3 for elves... 7 for dwarves... 9 for mortal men... And 1 to rule them all It's like the first thing that comes to mind when you think about lotr

@monkeytennis8861

Жыл бұрын

Eh??

@tirzahgayla

Жыл бұрын

@@reatrdosbenkron6194 yes but i try to comment on every one of TPG's videos no matter how dumb because it helps him get more exposure with the YT algorithm. i still learned a lot i didn't previously know so i'm glad i listened.

Good.Morning Chris (I’m finally catching up on your last 2 or 3 uploads). This one is definitely another brilliantly done video by TPG. Such an excellent overview of the Rings of Power and what Tolkien actually intended when writing about them. Thank you & Cheers🤘

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Good morning to you as well (or good afternoon from my perspective 😄) Thank you, glad you liked it ^^

@GreatGreebo

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames well done! I edited my comment slightly to be more specific…. Also, BRAVO 👏👏👏

Thank you, I learned much that I did not know

25:54 "This unusual statement from Gandalf" [only the One Ring grips the wearer. Cirdan and Thror give up their rings willingly] I still think Gandalf is right. Cirdan was handling a non-evil Narya, which may have wanted to be passed to Gandalf and instructed Cirdan to do so, its fiery heart wanting to do battle with the evil rings, and still angry at the murder of its maker Celebrimbor. Or indeed, like Sauron and the One, a portion of the noble Celebrimbor may endure within the Three...and Thror was a dwarf, and thus unthrallable by his wicked ring.

Hi Chris, another great lore video. my take on the creation of the rings of power and of cause every other elven made "magical" object always was that it was some kind of ritual metal working with a huge component of singing, as in the Lore creation was always linked to songs. That's imo also the reason why the 3 great Elven Rings where untainted by Sauron, who was not involved directly in the process of creation, but only in the design of the ritual. The design was therefor the reason for the link to the Master Ring, but the corruptive influence was by Saurons presence of the other 16 rings. I also am of the opinion that Sauron got all the 16 rings when conquering Eregion and therefor gave all 7 rings to the dwarfs, because only in dwarven lore do we find the mentioning that Celebrimbor gifted one of them to Durin directly, but all other sources tell of Sauron gifting ALL of the 16. And to answer your leading question in the comments: not to my knowledge, but i am by far less well read into Tolkien than you.

@theamazingbatboy

Жыл бұрын

I really like your interpretation of the forging of the rings! Much of Tolkien's creation myth and 'magic' seems linked to impressionistic expressions like song and dance. In truth, just like the real world, with only modern versions of fantastical storytelling trying to add 'realistic' justification, to mediocre effect.

@rebeccalyn9908

Жыл бұрын

I can't recall if C had anything to do with the 7's distribution but C was very well known for being a friend to the Dwarves, he even was a part of the building of the western gate to Moria having taken part in creating the scripts on the doors. Your thoughts regarding Sauron's participation in the lesser rings (referred to as trifle by Gandalf when speaking with Frodo in Fellowship in Ch2 The Shadow of the Past) and the 16 lesser of the Great rings…that his mere presence and the intent behind his instructions of their making is part, if not the major form of how Sauron is able to corrupt their making. I don't recall if he had any physical handling of any of the 16, so when they're referred to as being handled or touched... With how Tolkien used language and also how language was spoken in his time, the phrase "touched by" doesn't necessarily indicate that he literally touched them. But yes... And I also agree Chris knows his lore!!

@wd2989

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if Annatar disguised as Celebrimbor gave Durin his dwarf ring. This would have to occur before the War of the elves and Sauron because (if it was after the war) by that time the dwarves would likely have heard that Annatar was Sauron in disguise.

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@wd2989 well, considering the fact, that Celebrimbor was the dwarf friend, it also could be possible, that the dwarfs knew Annatar in person, seeing him in Eregion at the smithies while visiting, so maybe Durin got his ring from Annatar, but there is no mentioning of anything like that, so pure speculation.

very interesting stuff ! props!

What did Galadriel say to Saruman when he asked her about the new startup company she started with her ring? "That's Nenya business."

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

😅

At the Grey Havens, we are told that Elrond's ring, Vilya, was mightiest of the three. Is a difference in power between the three rings mentioned or demonstrated in any way elsewhere in the stories? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, but maybe I'm forgetting something.

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

I also don't remember a passage where this is explained further. We only have this statement, that it was the mightiest of the three. I think in general there are very little information of what Vilya does.

I think Gandalf was correct in his assessment that those who wore the rings of power would not give them up lightly, except early on. The dwarves, Tolkien tells us, were resistant to Sauron's control, something he was not aware of until he handed out the rings - probably because the dwarves were not really part of the song of Arda (therefore not subject to the corruption of Morgoth), but were created by Aule alone. The nine rings, once handed out, remained with the first humans gifted them. The three rings were not worn until after the fall of Sauron during the last alliance of men and elves. Also, Sauron never touched those three AND the elves who held them were very powerful in their own right. It occurs to me - what would happen if someone other than Sauron held the three elven rings and the one ring. Would the three rings help preserve them from the evil power of the one ring?

@ThePhilosophersGames

7 ай бұрын

Interesting question. I don't think so, because ultimately even the Three were made with almost the same "design"/technique as the others. Their bearers can be controlled by the One Ring as well. So ultimately lead to evil. Only when the One was lost, this danger was disabled for that time.

It's interesting that the Three (and presumably the lesser rings also) had their great power before the One was created, yet all failed once destroyed. I wonder why that is? Perhaps they were all corrupted or ruined when Sauron first wore it, establishing his connection? Could this mean the original rings weren't inherently evil before this? What a force for good they could have been! It would also help explain why the great smiths and loremasters of the Elves did not suspect the betrayal or their dark influene, despite that seeming to be their main feature.

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

That's a good point. I think maybe the Rings were already bound to Sauron in some hidden and this part he put into the One Ring, but that is just pure speculation by my side. But the design of the Rings was always, to corrupt the Elves.

@Ken-zc5ow

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames does rings of power answer this when Sauron asks Calabrimbor about using an other metal or alloy when crafting the rings?

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Maybe, but in the Rings of Power show Sauron's actions felt less like it was a big master plan and more spontaneous, which is the opposite of what Tolkien wrote. Somebody also wrote here in the comments that magic in Tolkien's world is often related to words and song, so I would guess here lies the magic, and a bit less in the choice of materials.

@Ken-zc5ow

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames thank you for the reply. I haven't watched the rings of power yet, for obvious reasons more or less, but I have seen a few spoilers so thought I would ask. Thank you for the clarification !

@theamazingbatboy

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Ever since CGP Grey's awesome LOTR explainer, my headcannon is the formula or mystical algorithm used to devise the rings had a Trojan or backdoor built in to it whose sole purpose was to network all the rings and channel Sauron's will, bypassing any natural defenses of the wearer. Clearly they were designed as a trap and a yoke both, regardless of the abilities evident to the elves. It would make sense they'd need to confer some kind malevolent power to the wearer so they could exert Sauron's will on their subjects in turn.

Great topic!!

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! I wanted to make this video for a long time, because I really like the topic.

@rebeccalyn9908

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames in some ways I think that in the forging of the 3 Celibrimbor really set up a redemption possibility for the descendents of Finwe as the 3 played such a pivotal behind the scenes part during the 3rd age in repairing the hurts and the holders of the 3 were active in aiding the bearer to destroy the one ring. Great topic!!

Nice video on the lore about the rings.

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Mozart! Love your music 😄

@wolfgangmozart3760

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames lol

Es macht Sinn das Vilya der mächtigste Ring ist, da die Elbenringe die Silmaril spiegeln bzw. deren Ende. Dadurch spiegelt der Ring der Luft also Earendil wieder, welcher den Elben ja heilig ist. ^^

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Yes and e.g. Manwë, King of the Valar, is also the the Vala of "air" (winds, clouds, eagles, lighting are in his service). So as you say it makes sense.

🔥🔥🔥

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

😄

That's easy. The three elven rings allow their wearer to reroll fate rolls while Durin's ring allow rerolling of a single priority roll per game.

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

lol true 😂

What if a human wears one of the dwarf or elf rings?

@ThePhilosophersGames

10 ай бұрын

The 7 Dwarven Rings should have the same exact effect on Men as the 9 Rings of Men. The only rings that differ are the 3 Elven Rings, which were made with some slight "design" changes. Here - in my opinion - it would depend on if Sauron has the One Ring himself at the time Men/humans would wear the Three. If that would be the case the outcome for those 3 would be most likely somewhat similar to the 9 Rings of Power as well. Maybe some very good and powerful human beings would be able to also put the Ring off their finger, but Sauron would ultimately get control over them when they would continue wearing the Three. They would also continue to live and their powers would be enhanced, which might corrupt them. If they would also turn invisible after some time and become Nazgûl though is hard to say. I guess they would become immortal "sorcerers" of Sauron or something like that and at some point in a similar state of mind as the Nazgûl. The 3 do not make you invisible and they are less about the Unseen, but the transformation into wraiths is from my perspective - kind of - the key to prolong the live of Men. So you can argue against it or for it for sure. There is no precedence for the Three used by Men. Hope that helps ^^

Do the rings given to the dwarves also make them invisible?

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Good question. The Ring themselves can ofc turn people invisible, but Dwarves are immune to this effect. They also can't be turned into Wraiths: “The only power over them [the Dwarves] that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring, to live either longer or shorter because of it.” The Lord of the Rings (1954 - 1955, Allen & Unwin; today: HarperCollins), J. R. R. Tolkien; Appendix A, Durin's Folk, p. 1076f. I made a video about the Seven Rings explicitly some time ago, if you are interested: kzread.info/dash/bejne/d2Fhp9eih7GucZM.html

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames i also think that the 16 Rings where designed by elves for elves initially was a major reason, why their power over dwarves, who where not created by Illuvatar, but by Aule, was far less direct, then on mankind, who shared the Creator with elves ( i interpret your quote from the Appendix in that way at least). So you can call it a design failure by Sauron, that the rings worked differently on dwarves, than expected.

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames This is what I also thought, I think its because they were created by Aule instead of Eru. I also remember somewhere being stated that they had "mind of cogwork" or something in that vein.

there is no mention that the Dwarves were made invisible. perhaps only men were made invisible. Perhaps it makes the wearer a spirt, and Tom Bombadil could still see Frodo while wearing the ring. Sauron's messengers to Dain was that he would give rings of old in return for info on Baggins and the return of a specific trifle trinket. perhaps Sauron had recovered some of the Dwarven rings in addition to the one from Thrain. Oh yeah, don’t forget the Elendilmir. At Gladden fields, when Isildur’s son told him he must escape. Isildur was wearing the Elendilmir. He put on the ring, the Elendilmir blazed, he put a hood over the Elendilmir and was not seen by men again. I suspect one read Elendil was able to stand the approach of Sauron and ring was that the elendilmir had potency

@ThePhilosophersGames

11 ай бұрын

I think the Dwarves are a special case. We can read in LotR, Appendix A, III Durin's Folk, pp. 1076f.: "For the Dwarves had proved untameable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring, to live either longer or shorter because of it. All the more did Sauron hate the possessors and desire to dispossess them." I think I discussed this in an extra stream for some time, that because of the quote above, the Rings might not move them into the Unseen. Though we don't know for sure and arguments can be made for both ideas, though I think it not working on them is the most likely. The reason is that is the line "they could not be reduced to shadows" and also that even the "prolonging life" effect does not work on them. It is phrased interestingly: "they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring, to live either longer or shorter because of it." "for the same reason" kind of indicates imo that the standard effects simply did not work on them. So it seems plausible, to assume they would not turn invisible. > perhaps Sauron had recovered some of the Dwarven rings in addition to the one from Thrain. Yes he had 3 of the 7 Dwarven Rings at some point. The other 4 were "consumed" by dragons.