I am reminded of the scene in which Frodo puts on the One Ring in the house of Tom Bombadil and Tom is still able to see him, even treating the whole thing as a kind of joke. Theories about Tom probably belong elsewhere, I just wanted to leave a comment for once as I watch every single video yet am rarely able to think of a really good point that you didn’t already cover. A testament to your thoroughness I guess. Anyway, you bring joy to my life, so thank you for that. Peace.

@thomaspostma2329

3 жыл бұрын

Amen to that

@camau79

3 жыл бұрын

have you heard the theory that glorfindel is a maiar, and was one of the missing istari

@SayGahTaah

3 жыл бұрын

@@camau79 yeah from those who just got into the lore.

Possibly the most hard core Tolkien video anyone has made. True Tolk-metal. To the point; There's enough in all writings to be able to be comfortable with saying that the earlier versions of Varda playing a role in the production or maybe strengthening of the light of the two trees ... by using the stored light of the 2 lamps ... is still reasonable, even with the Silmarillion clearly telling the story of Yavanna, her song and Nienna's tears being the moment of the trees creation. I might stretch it a bit further to add that the light of the 2 lamps added by Varda, ... IS the light (nee; power) that provides the Calaquendi the ability to see both the seen and unseen worlds. They looked upon the trees, even as a visitor, and the power of the lamps allowed them to see all of Middle earth. Not canon ... and will never be, but it makes sense that the true power of the trees ... were in fact the 2 lamps. A simple and elegant solution.

@justinadams4243

3 жыл бұрын

TOLK-METAL!!!!!!! 4 LIFE

Thanks for the video. Wonderful topic! I had forgotten the involvment of Nienna in the birth of the Two Trees, that really gives another level of depth to the concept of creating a source of enlightenment instead of a mere source of light. I appreciate, as always, the thorough research you put in your work, and i am glad that all those artists gave you permission to use their artwork, quality should accompany quality indeed. Man, i hope you don't get tired of doing this because yours are some of the most well made video about Tolkien lore on youtube. Be well!

@hrperformance

4 жыл бұрын

Ye well said! 😁 The quality is so high, its basically a lecture series. I can't find any nearly as good as this channel, and not through lack of trying. The film and book differences alone should take quite some time so we're in luck 😂👍🏽

Thank you for covering these more complex topics. I have tried to read other Tolkien works beside The Hobbit and The lord of the Rings, but they never meshed for me. You lay it out all very well, and it becomes understandable. I do appreciate your hard work.

Talking of Glorfindel, and Secret Councils - I love the scene in 'The Martian' where Nasa Administrator Theodore "Teddy" Sanders requests that... 'If there is to be a secret council'... he be codenamed Glorfindel. Keep up the great work!

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

haha yes that's a really cool reference.

Criminally underrated channel. Excellent analysis, I may say.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I hope over time more and more people find their way to my channel ^^ So far it's working out quite well.

It's a complicated topic and I this used a ton of sources. It's a bit special, but I hope you enjoy this deep dive into the lore. Shout outs to all the artists, who gave me permission to use their art works: ➥ Sara Morello Art - www.deviantart.com/samo-art (new) ➥ Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80 ➥ Laura Tolton - www.deviantart.com/lauratolton ➥ Niahti - www.artstation.com/niahti ➥ BeneF - www.deviantart.com/benef ► Playlists: ➥Book/Film Differences Series - kzread.info/dash/bejne/o5lhls5wZKWendo.html ➥Recommended Lore Videos - kzread.info/dash/bejne/no54u6yNhLrRnrQ.html ► Social Media: ➥Twitter (@PhilosophGames) - twitter.com/philosophgames ➥Twitch Channel - twitch.tv/thephilosophersgames ➥Discord Server - discord.gg/SPW68vh

Hi how are you? I've had a hard time since the pandemic and should've come back to your channel and it's followers because it gives me so much comfort. Thank you for posting about things I love and what gets me through hard times. I'm sure it's helping more people than you know as there's many that can't post to thank you. I should be watching you instead of the news! Thank you, can't wait to catch up on all your videos

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the late answer. I'm doing quite well, even though I got a bit lazy recently. The channel and its content does hopefully not disappear, so you can always come back to it. Happy it helps you through tough times and it's nice to hear from you again :) I remember answering some of your comments (searching revealed that I missed some, sorry for that), but I have to admit I get so many comments right now, that I have a hard time answering all (I still read all new comments I can find though and mark them with a heart if they are at least worded friendly). Some are also buried in answers to old existing comments, which are almost impossible for me to see. I get this in comments at times, that my videos help people to get through tough times, which is always inspiring and motivating, but also sometimes surreal for me, because I would have never imagined that my videos would have such an impact on other people. So thank you too for such a nice comment and recommanding me further ^^

@tirzahgayla

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Thank you so much for your 3 videos on Weathertop. It took that many to lay it out properly. I'm still absorbing it all and I want to tell you how much I appreciate your attentiion to detail. I'll be back with ideas that are percolating - fun!

I always assumed the Nazgûl didn't really cast aside the cloacks, but Frodo thought they did because now he passed to the unseen world. Like in the first time he saw the Nazgûl and asked his friends of the pale king.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes that is possible too, Tolkien words it quite carefully (they "appeared to have"): He could see them clearly now: they appeared to have cast aside their hoods and black cloaks, and they were robed in white and grey. Swords were naked in their pale hands; helms were on their heads. But as far as I remember casting aside hoods and black cloaks was not explicitly mentioned in the Weathertop scene.

You are keeping on producing such high quality content. You deserve to grow much bigger and I believe you will, with time. Keep it up!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Yes quality takes time and so does growth. Right now my channel is doing quite well, I can't complain.

Your video may have been twice as long as you planned but it was half as long as I would endure. Thank you for this.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

haha thank you ^^

I absolutely love your channel! I just started my Tolkien lore journey, and these videos have helped me fill in so many gaps and get such a better understanding of the whole picture Tolkien created. Thank you!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you ^^ Happy it helps you. It's a lot of fun exploring Tolkien's stories and lore (event hough it can be intimidating). I wish you a lot of fun with it :)

Another great video :), I like your very unbiased way of explaining things, with the quotes to back up each point, very nice and precise :D

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Yes I usually try to provide some quotes too, but this time I increased this a lot and worked really close to the books. Much appreciated ^^

I think this could be fairly described as very advanced Tolkien.

@hrperformance

4 жыл бұрын

😆 Yes I definitely agree

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

haha yes I think that was a very deep dive into the books. Happy that people liked it so far. Was a bit worried, if people would like it.

@sayagarapan1686

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames We liked it.

@tsuchan

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Yes, I think your niche in Tolkien law on KZread is both distinct, and very very valuable. I have never read the deep and technical collections of Tolkien's work, and very likely never will. But I'm absolutely spellbound with the tapestry all of you teachers weave together from all the different sources. And your accounts, dear Christian, are the most ferensic of all, and are rewarding both when studied up-close and from a greater distance. Thanks so much!

@init000

3 жыл бұрын

@@tsuchan I couldn’t agree more, with everything in your comment!!

You know, the reason this is the only LotR channel I'm subscribed to is because this is the only channel I think where the creator doesn't read aloud tolkien gateway articles or semi canon wiki's. Shows some real dedication.

@MasterBombadillo

3 жыл бұрын

I do know a few other channels who do that. Darth Gandalf and In Deep Geek to name two. But this channel is definitely one of my favourites. The worst was when I found out that one of the largest channels around was not reading from Tolkien Gateway, but LotR Wiki of all things. God damn LotR Wiki...

@maxgrozema1093

3 жыл бұрын

@@MasterBombadillo which one was that?

@MasterBombadillo

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxgrozema1093 History of Middle Earth (or the Ages as they are now called). Check their video on the Battle of Dale and open up the LotR Wiki article on that event. Checked it again. And my God it is still horrifying.

@maxgrozema1093

3 жыл бұрын

@@MasterBombadillo oh, I thought it was one of those channels that displayed video games (especially shadow of war/mordor) as canon. I'm not a gatekeeper but those games completely destroy the lore.

@MasterBombadillo

3 жыл бұрын

​@@maxgrozema1093 Although they do like their games and movies, I haven't seen them put them use it as canon. So in that regard they are fine.

The magic and depth of Tolkien's universe definitely came across in this video. I didn't know men were as physically capable as elves in the past. And it was great to learn a bit more about the valar. Fantastic job!!

The erudition you display in making these reminds me of reading Christopher's introductions. There is an admirable depth of thought and investigation manifest in your work.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Much appreciated, thank you!

Brilliant work, brilliant theories, some of your finest work to date. And the time you took with it, if I may speak for others, is greatly appreciated by myself and your other subs. I think the seeds or the scaffolding of the ability to see the unseen exists in most, if not all, Elves, but some were activated by the light.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, much appreciated (as always). Happy you liked it so much. Yes that is a good way of putting it ^^

I've been reading Tolkien's books for over 30 years and I'm not easily impressed, but I have to say this video is something extraordinary. You got yourself another subscriber. Keep up the wonderful work!

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, much appreciated :) I really tried to work close to the books and cover this complex topic in all detail. Happy you enjoyed it!

You do a fantastic job in your presentation of all the different angles of a topic and are amazing stating the difference between lore and opinion. Your a joy to listen too and I learn a great deal of amazing lore that i hope more get to enjoy because you put in real time and effort for all of us to enjoy.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, that is also what I tried to accomplish with this video. It's often easy to portray your interpretation on certain edge case topics (that maybe have no 100% true answer) as fact in videos. I'm guilty of that too and that happens, because of the sheer complexity of some side topics, that you need to mention in context of a different topic, but can't explore in all detail in a video. Here I could solely focus on one topic and explain my view. So much appreciated :)

Interesting topic! Also thanks for the shoutout ^^

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

oh you saw the shout out, nice ^^ Also you are welcome, I have to thank too!

Love your channel! Keep up the good work!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I'll try ^^

I am excited... VERY excited to see your episodic Tolkien Amazon series recaps! Your knowledge is utterly professorial. So well done!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I'm curious too. For me it's a win win. Comparing it with the books, discussing their approach and analysing it a bit is possible independent of if it's good or bad. Even if it should be bad, bad things often give a lot of material to talk about. Exploring why something is good can be often quite more difficult. But I hope that it will be good. I only fear getting too many comments about political ideology. Got some weird comments in that direction and complaints about e.g. the Witcher. Meanwhile all my friends, etc really liked the Witcher series and they simply never discussed the looks of characters and some know the games and books. But still looking forward to covering this.

@zeblogo

4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames It is nigh impossible, I think, to discuss Tolkien absent a political lens, particularly because Tolkien openly discussed the “Scouring of the Shire” as a negative political commentary on industrialization and the loss of innocence. Indeed, from his letters, it appears that he also abandoned his “sequel” to LOTR due to it unavoidably turning into a dark political thriller. So, methinks that if you love his work, which you so CLEARLY do, you’ll give yourself permission to discuss whatever through a political lens where appropriate. With that, I say, rock on!

I agree with you that it is having lived in the light of the Two Trees that allows seeing the unseen. I don't know how much being near the Valar helps this, it seems to give a people something. All groups that live closer to the Valar, i.e. the West, seem to be mightier than those futher east, but it doesn't seem to give that kind of sight.

The Looooord of the naaaaaaazguuuul

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

I have to admit it was fun saying it like this ^^

One thing I love in Tolkien is the notion that accomplishing certain things actually depletes the power of the being that accomplishes it. We see this in the creation of the silmarili by Feanor - he's unable to replicate that achievement. And the Valar create the Trees, but then are unable to create more later when the first are destroyed. And most significantly, Melkor was initially the most powerful of the Valar, but he drained much of his power into things in middle Earth (including the very soil), and when it finally came time for the Valar to take him down they found him much weakened compared to his previous state. And of course Sauron placed much of his being into the One Ring. I just find it very satisfying that all these things "come at a cost." I think it's reasonable to regard Eru himself as essentially "infinite" in this regard - I assume he can do as much as he likes without ever "running out." But from there on down there is an "economy of power" that is enforced very nicely by Tolkien.

@ThePhilosophersGames

8 ай бұрын

Yes fully agree. That is an aspect I also really love about Tolkien's writings.

I think your spider example is actually brilliant, imagine Ham Gamgees reaction to talking to a man covered head to toe in a black robe, versus his reaction to talking to an invisible spectre that sits atop his horse asking for directions to Baggins. We are less scared of things that our brain can make sense of, and in that scene the nazgul wasnt trying to scare or intimidate the Hobbit but instead gain information from him

@ThePhilosophersGames

10 ай бұрын

Exactly, also thank you. I was not able to come up with a better example, but I think it definitely brings the point across, because this phobia is quite common, so people can maybe relate.

awesome deep dive!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you (as always) ^^ I was a bit worried if people would enjoy the video, so happy you liked it :)

Interesting as always 🙂

This is such a great channel. I believe in you brother

One of your best videos. Thanks!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, much appreciated! :)

How about Gandalf looking at Frodo and seeing 'transparency about him, and especially about the left hand'?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes that's a good hint. I think that is one of the strongest indicators that Gandalf could see the Unseen. But it was more a "side effect" of the wound, not Frodo using the One Ring directly in front of Gandalf.

@kenricstoklosa2096

4 жыл бұрын

Could you explain which part you're talking about? When did Frodo wear the ring in front of Gandalf and also about the left hand part?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe I worded that oddly, but Frodo never wears the One Ring in front of Gandalf. You find the "transparency" mentioned in the chapter Many Meetings (Fellowship of the Ring), where Frodo awakes in Rivendell, with Gandalf sitting next to him: "Gandalf moved his chair to the bedside and took a good look at Frodo. The colour had come back to his face, and his eyes were clear, and fully awake and aware. He was smiling, and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard’s eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were of transparency, about him, and especially about the left hand that lay outside upon the coverlet."

That's probably why Melkor hated/coveted the light... because he had no part in creating it. He sure as hell got his evil way later-on though when he destroyed the trees and stole the Silmarills.

Cool stuff. Thanks for the vid!

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

haha no problem, thank you too for commenting :)

I think your suggestion that ability to see the unseen has to do with the Trees is excellent. It "works." That doesn't prove Tolkien intended it in any deliberate way, but... the stories aren't going to be changed now. Interesting, though, that the stars are made from the dew of the Trees - that opens the possibility that one with vision keen enough to see using starlight might be able to see the unseen, and also offers a great explanation for why most sightings of spirits are during nighttime (though that's reaching outside of Tolkien). However, it might not be just the light at all - it might be that being bathed in the light of the Trees, in its full intensity, alters a person to give them that ability, and perhaps the starlight isn't bright enough to bring about that change. Much like how it's insufficient to give one a tan.

Men, your video's are so indepth, it is really nice to watch them!

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

I was just wondering where you've been! I hope you're well.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I planned to make a short video about the Unseen and be done with it in like a week or two, but it got much longer longer than planned and took me a whole month to make ^^' I'm doing good though. I hope you are well too :) Always nice to see familiar names in the comments ^^

@phoule76

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames thanks for persevering!

I always enjoy your videos! I really like your style, keep it up (:

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

happy to hear ^^ Thank you much appreciated and I'll try :D

Amazing video, thanks!!

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you again and for taking the time to comment ^^

So it’s a bit like the ancient Celtic religion in Britain and Ireland where they conceive otherworldly beings as moving unseen by mortals(usually through fog or mist or darkness). Given some of the stuff Tolkien studied, that doesnt surprise me.

Great video!

@ThePhilosophersGames

8 ай бұрын

Thank you, much appreciated, also thank you too for leaving some great comments ^^

Your content kicks ass

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

haha thank you ^^

Awesome analysis

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

awesome content

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

These videos are great. Can you do one on the history of the Hobbits please?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

I in parts covered it in some videos of my film/book differences and references series, but yes I maybe will do a standalone video on it at some point, but that could take some time.

Interesting quote about thingol hair turning white after seeing the light of the trees through melian. So we can assume Gandalf experienced the same when he fell? And returned in white.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

That's an interesting idea, but it seems Gandalf went directly to Eru (probably not even traveling through Mandos halls) and was then sent back to the mountainpeak. It's still possible, but maybe different (he saw the light o Eru?).

@cyberpunkdarren

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames And the light of the trees was "left over" light of Eru right? So its the same?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Originally maybe or let's say possible. But the passage of Varda's light being collected is very old (1920s-1930s), while the passage about the "holy" light she got from Eru is from the late 1950s (maybe around 1958, so post LotR's release). Not sure of they were intended to be connected. Esp. this early version is not in the Silmarillion anymore. It's a bit based on your own interpretation and what you see as canon.

Maybe they are so terrifying because they are extensions of sauron's will and as you know fear dominates all emotions his will to dominate was linked to fear the cloak only masks it.

@ThePhilosophersGames i really like your lore video's especialy the longer ones. could you do a lore video on Galadriel? she is one of my favourite characters from Tolkien's works.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Galadriel is on my list for a long time now. I will make a video about her at some point, but not sure when. I also want to make one about Elrond.

@possemis

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames nice!

Very mystical part .

I love your videos!

@ThePhilosophersGames

2 жыл бұрын

glad you enjoy them so much ^^ Esp. this one is in m opinion one of my best videos and it's style was also a foundation for the Who is Elrond and future videos in a sense. I want to work close to the books.

@gnome_hat_kynio

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames I loved the one on Elrond too! My favourite is the one on Cirdan

I appreciate this discussion. I have never thought in terms of an seen/unseen duality; I rather thought the 'unseen' realm had a dual nature - the world of Sauron or the world of Aman - and the representation of Glorfindel and Galadriel was due solely to their familiarity with the Light of Aman, a trait no other Middle Earth elves seem to share. I have considered the the unseen realm of Sauron as a corruption wrought by Morgoth (though I think that doesn't explain the Ringwraiths). I am going to re-listen to this video again to try and sort it out in my aging brain - a difficult task. BTW, I think you vocalization is great! Was it difficult to learn to trill the r's? Is that a European ability? My Midwest American tongue just won't move that way! Perhaps an expanded intro; a mention of your regional dialect, etc, would be appreciated.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Yes I really wanted to give people a good overview, so they can come to their own conclusions and understand mine at the same time. It's a very complex topic. I like your idea too ^^ I would say the trilled R is not unusual in many European languages (some languages here have a tap, which is quite similar, just shorter). In my native language (German) it only exists in dialects these days (e.g. in the south, but also in some northern regions), but in my region it's not a thing. As a kid I tried to imitate some of those dialects and I think I learnt it that way. We have actually a lot of different pronunciations for the R in German. Some people seem to struggle with producing the trilled R sound though. Interestingly there are people from regions with a trilled R, that have trouble pronouncing the standard German R. I made a video where i mention that too: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qIOG0c5wgLTLic4.html

I have a question: Did the silven, wood elves and Thranduil ever leave Middle Earth? If they didn't , wouldn't they diminish too, since they are still elves. I couldn't find anything about this, only that Legolas left. What do you think?🤔

@sayagarapan1686

4 жыл бұрын

I've also wondered at the subject of Elves who refused to depart. I'm still looking into it, but all I've ever seen are broad, vague hints where it might be taken as being implied that some groups indeed refused the summons to Valinor and have faded, only to become the fairy folk of legend whose interaction with this present world can only occur in places where wells of great magic resides because they no longer have a temporal forms, as their own spirits have consumed them. It's probably more accurate to say that these areas of magic transports mortals into their realm of existence, much like the Ring or a Morgul blade can transfer a mortal into the unseen world, for the Elves themselves can never come out of it as it is a permanent condition, unless they somehow finally make their way to Valinor to become reembodied.

One thing you didn't mention about the eye-sight of the elves is from The Hobbit, that the elves had accuracy that they could hit a bird's eye in the dark, with an arrow, which would require an eye-sight that the other races didn't have.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I maybe could have gone more into details about their eye sight and talk about more passages from the books. But when the video became so much longer than i expected, I actually considered cutting the eye sight section out completely and maybe make a separate video. I decided to leave it in the script and don't go further into detail. Still had some other interesting quotes for it.

@Skelstoolbox

3 жыл бұрын

That would truly be a super power being that good, though I think a human who has dedicated his life to a recurve/longbow could get that good. Look at Byron Fergusson, what he can do on youtube and tell me that isn't Elvish level skills.. I'm an archer myself.. Compound and recurve.. I'm an intermediate by all accounts but my teacher is a true master.. He can hit apples at 100 yrds with his compound.. Not every shot but he can do it..

Excellent video! 🗡️🛡️⚔️

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you ^^

@scififantasyfanatic6536

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. :D

I always took the unseen to mean the spirit world. What beings see there is the life force of other beings. This is why powerful beings like Glorfindel shown so brightly. All living beings exist in both, but most are only attuned to the physical. The concept is no different from our own world, really.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is, that some of the characters are dim in the "spirit world" as explained in the video. A character like Aragorn should be seen there too imo. But yes agreed some are probably more attuned to the physical as you say.

@donaldwantz4071

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames I think men in general have little connection to the spiritual world. For the same reason, they are short lived and do not remain in the world after their physical death. The only men who can use sorcery/magic are those who have been touched in some way by the Maiar or Valor. Tolkien's magic has a lot more to do with this unseen world than traditional magic as we normally think of it. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but it falls in line with what I remember from the books.

Incredible thenks

@ThePhilosophersGames

Жыл бұрын

Happy you liked this one. I think it's one of my best video. So glad you liked it 😄

7:20 I think a slightly better metaphor would be if you saw an enemy nearby and they had a dagger or sword, you would be less afraid if it were sheathed on their belt and not in their hand.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes that's a good one too. Interesting somebody also said my example was also good ^^ Not sure if the person is being polite :D

I'm curious of what you think of Ungoliant's "unlight". Is the invisibility that this casts also part of the "Unseen"? Or is this something entirely separate? Because even the Valar are unable to see Ungoliant and Melkor when they are surrounded by the "unlight"

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes that is an interesting case. I interpret Ungoliant as an entity that represents darkness, somewhat like a black whole, "devouring" light. And I see her ability as extension of that characteristic, creating something so dark, that even the Valar can't see through it.

I love the channel and have been watching a lot lately. Any chance of getting a track by track explanation of Blind guardian's album "nightfall in middle earth" each song could be it's own video basically. Thanks!

every time he wears ring is shifted to spirit world or in simple terms ring kills him each time he wears it lol

@ThePhilosophersGames

2 жыл бұрын

haha like beaming in star trek? 😂

Tolkien's world is basically a multiverse.

Very nice video.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

I would like to recommend the blog A Collection Of Unmitigated Pedantry, it is from a military historian and analyzes battles and military aspects in popular culture, although it also analyzes historical facts. It has two series of reviews on the Siege of Gondor and Helm's Deep. Maybe they will be useful to you..... And good video btw

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you (also for the recommendation) :) i will look Into it, could become handy later ^^

Wonder what gandolph would look like seen through the unseen like glorfindale. would he be the younger looking version of his fair form of valar?

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Yes wonder that too. I have the theory that the Istari did not look any different in the Unseen, because most Elves (except Círdan, who was never in Aman or saw the Two Trees, but has maybe seen a Silmaril) did not know about their true nature, when they arrived. And some of those Elf Lords must have been able to see the Unseen. I think only in their true Maiar form this might be different.

I can't help but feel like having seen the light of the two trees being a prerequisite for seeing the unseen to be too much of an oversimplification for my liking. To be sure, I think there's a parallel there, but I don't think the light of the Valar is the epiphany for such vision, rather the wisdom to see beyond simply what the eyes of man or elf perceive. For example, and most readily disprovable based on your past videos, Cirdan is able to see and understand the true nature of the Istari despite never seeing the light of Valinor, simply because he's an incredibly old and wise elf, much like Galadriel or ever Celebor. To be fair, it could argued that such insight is the result of having been touched by the Valar, as evidenced by his visions, but it seems much more likely, and more narratively satisfying that those wise beyond their years would be able to pierce the veil of the Unseen and I stand more than those around them. That supposition more readily supports why some dwarves and men, particularly the wise Numenorians, are able to work magic and enchantments otherwise unseen by those races fated to die, because they accrue wisdom greater than expected before they have to face the judgement of Mando's. By locking that kind of ability to those who witnessed the light of the trees in the ancient past, you more or less doom the world of Arda and the mortal races into a steady decline of understanding and technological development going forward, because that can never really be replicated. All that being said, most of those opinions are informed by modern world building and DM sensibilities, and you very well may have hit the nail on the head because Tolkein wrote a hundred years ago, and his world is by now means flawless

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Círdan has see the light of the Trees -> he saw at least one of the Silmarilli most likely from a very close distance. Same with Elrond. I also said, that living in Aman might give this effect (not only the trees). What other factors beyond that are a requirement (and there might be some), is imo pure speculation. The texts only hints at these 2 factors. The question of how Númenor could craft works that manipulated the Unseen is a good one though. I can only speculate (in case my theory right). Maybe they found methods to work things even in the unseen without seeing it. There is still a room of overlapping space. E.g. torches can be seen in both "worlds", I can imagine that with the knowledge of the Elves, the Dúnedain of Númenor were able to find a way to do this. also thank you for sharing your thoughts

@skynyrdjesus

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Of course, it's lovely to have a discussion about this kind of thing. Its funny how stumbling on these videos brought all this stuff back to the surface for me after not reading Tolkien in years. I should clarify as well, I don't necessarily think your theory is necessarily incorrect, I suspect a large degree of the disconnect between yours and mine is down to language differences and subtleties lost in translation. Being given sight of the unseen by the light of the Trees makes sense, but there's a heavy layer of metaphor there that makes me prefer something more along the lines of having seen the light of Valinor. The Lamps, the Trees, the Sun and Moon, and to a lesser degree the Silmarilli, are a metaphor for waning influence of the Valar on Middle-Earth, and it makes more sense to me that vision of the unseen world, foresight and magic are gifts of the Ainur to the lesser races, secrets they illuminate so to speak. Its entirely possible that the Numenorians and the Dwarves learned to work magic through trial and error, they had vast amounts of time and worked mostly in enchantment, so it makes sense, but there's also a strong correlation between them turning away for the wisdom of Amman, or specifically Aule for the dwarves, and the decline in their power. Being derived from the Ainur, rather than the Trees themselves, also explains why the servants of Sauron, such as the Witch King, the Mouth of Sauron, and the evil races of Men seem to have magical power to some degree despite having certainly never seen the light of the Trees and even openly hating fearing the Light of Earendil, their last surviving trace in the world. Their powers are lesser, and twisted into something terrible, but if it was intrinsically linked to the work of Yavanna, who is powerful even among the Valar, I doubt Sauron could replicate such a gift even in his purest form before his betrayal and his diminishment.

If we go with movie canon for a moment, perhaps Thranduil being able to detect Bilbo just a little was due to his age? Perhaps older elves possess a greater connection to the Unseen. This is probably irrelevant though, since I'm basing it off of the movie.

Great video. Although as someone who knows basic physics the idea that two things the size of trees can light a whole world, flat or not, is rather ridiculous. Even with "magic" it's rather unbelievable. Tolkien's grasp of reality seems rather weak even if it is just a creation myth.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

haha yes, it's mythology and the world was flat + the Two Trees only had to light Aman (could have phrased that better) to some degree the rest was probably dark. ^^ Also thank you happy you liked the video :)

Any idea if desendants of High Elves/Elves of Valinor born in Middle Earth (like Elrond) inherited their parents special powers like seeing the wraith world?

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

It's a good question if the ability to see the Unseen could be inherited. I assume not, because Gandalf's statement does not mention it. It says: "[...] for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.’ " I could imagine that maybe the 3 Rings of Power allowed Elrond to maybe glimpse into the Unseen, but maybe I'm wrong.

Great video! Have you any idea why Legolas, Elladan and Elrohir were able to see the Dead Men of Dunharrow?

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

I would need to look deeper into the books, but in my mind they are not invisible. Aragorn can see them too, if I'm not mistaken.

@rAAAnciiid

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames "The Dead are following," said Legolas. "I see shapes of Men and of horses, and pale banners like shreds of cloud, and spears like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following." "Yes, the Dead ride behind. They have been summoned," said Elladan. Those lines made me think that only the elves could see them at first. But you could be right and it is possible that they saw them first because of their keener vision. Thx :)

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I see why you get this impression, but it's probably just due to the Elves better vision. I like that explanation ^^

do you really think that elves like Legolas (Sindar) could not see the unseen...maybe they could not see it as clearly as the Calaquendi!... becaus in the book they say this about legolas "Only Legolas still stepped as lightly as ever, his feet hardly seeming to press the grass, leaving no footprints as he passed; but in the waybread of the Elves he found all the sustenance that he needed, and he could sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this world."

The Elvenking could not see Bilbo in "The Hobbit". Its a McGuffin, doing things that the author needs it to do.

Listening to this again and maybe because of the Jan 6 insurrection in my country I'm wondering what would happen if Sauron didn't recognize the Witch King's steel crown? Don't all crowns hold only as much weight as we give them? Steel or gold, they have no meaning unless we give it. Now that I know more about Sauron's nature thanks to your videos I see he was always going to use those under him to get what he wanted. The Witch King had no more chance of survival than the lowliest orc. Such is the nature of creatures like Sauron- many promises made, none kept unless they benefit him. What a fool the Witch King must've known himself to be at the end.

It seems the great rings didn't affect the great like they do to mortals. Hence Bombadil and souron didn't disappear when wearing the one. Remember that elrond and Gandalf couldn't tell the one was with them in rivendell in bilbos pocket. My questions are did the nine cause invisibility? And could the 3 give "wraith sight" ?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

You are right, the more powerful wearers of the Rings of Power could probably control if they wanted to be invisible. There are in some cases other explanation too though. In case of Sauron he already exists in both worlds (Seen and Unseen) at once. The Elves in Eregion were Noldor. We only know Celebrimbor by name and he as born in Aman. I assume the other Noldor of Eregion could also have lived in Aman, so they exist in both worlds too. The 3 Even Rings also seem to be different compared to the others. Ofc Galadriel (as one of those Elves with a Elven Ring of Power) was also born in Aman and lived in both worlds. However Círdan (who had Narya) and I assume Gil-galad (who had Vilya) were e.g never in Aman. They were not moved into the Unseen and the 3 Rings Elven Rings were more about preservation and healing. "But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained." - Fellowship of the Ring, The Council of Elrond Tolkien explains this further in letter 131: "The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility." So they did not make them "invisible". The wearer could make their Ring invisible though. "And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring?’ she asked turning again to Sam. ‘No, Lady,’ he answered. ‘To tell you the truth, I wondered what you were talking about." - Fellowship of the Ring, The Mirror of Galadriel If we now look at the 9 Rings of Power we find an interesting Quote in the Silamrillion (The Rings of Power and the Third Age) about the Nazgûl: "Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men; [...]" "They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun" indicates, that they originally were only invisible when they wanted. Ofc maybe they did it like Bilbo and just took of the Ring. But they definitely had for some time control over it (until they became wraiths). The Dwarven Rings seems to have no effect on the dwarves (they only desired more riches), not sure if there is any information on this.

@SpaldingFraser

4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames thank you your reply. Very thorough

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

No problem, it's a topic that I will need to cover in one of the many Council of Elrond sections of my Film/book references and differences series.

I think glorfindel knows who Tom bombadil is which means toilken knew and crying in Quenya

If the Nazgul blades turn one into a Nazgul if stabbed, why didn't Sauron make an entire army of Nazguls?

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

I asked myself the same question ^^ But it says the victims gets turned into "lesser" wraiths. And Sauron might "split" his power further with this, but his new "servant" might not be really useful for Sauron's greater goals. So it could weaken him. But that is just a theory of mine.

@ClassicHarleyQuinn

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames That's very plausible. I didn't think about that. So he would be literally sending himself into war. Probably not the best idea on his part.

Hey man 😀

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

haha hello, nice to see you again in the comments :)

*"The 'first born' is a term that references the elves..."* A simple question here, why? Eru wasn't "born" I suppose (making him "zero"), but the Valar and Maiar are beneath him. Why aren't they "first and second," respectively? If referring to sentient beings outside of these "angels," the dwarves were first were they not? What about the being Melkor created/transformed prior to attacking the lamps (he supposedly raised an army)? I see only an ever shrinking window for elves to be referred to as "first born," unless the vast majority of the expanded lore is to be ignored completely or the term is so technical as to be rendered pointless.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Good question. The term emerged when Arda was created. Ainur existed before and maybe in a timeless/eternal form. For Arda Elves were intended to be the firstborn, but Aulë created the bodies of the dwarves prior to the Elves awakening and Eru adopted the Dwarves and made them sentient/gave them a soul with the Secret Fire under the condition that they would be put to rest and awake after the Elves (which is what happened), because they were intended to be the Firstborn of Arda.

@khadenallast4495

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames For the dwarves, I just wanna say that seems like a loophole. Aule created the dwarves and was about to destroy them when they cried out for mercy, suggesting sentience/"birth" had already been given to them, just later reversed. I suppose it does beg the question of when specifically the bodies of elves and men were created. It doesn't make sense for them to be created at the same time, given their contrasting natures.Though if men were created to be able to thrive on Arda Marred, why were they placed so far in the east?

But didn't the rings keep them tied to Sauron, and like Sauron they vanished when he fell, the first and last time?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

They were tied to Sauron even without the rings. In LotR (and probably the Unfinished Tales too) we find some evidence that Sauron has taken their Rings of Power for himself. Even without the 9 Rings of Power they were still bound to his will. Ofc with his defeat also the Nazgûl were defeated (I think they were caught in the eruption of Mount Doom). They would become powerless "ghosts"/spirits I assume (so their body in the Unseen was destroyed). As e.g. Gorlim they maybe would not have been summoned into the Halls of Mandos and remained in Middle-earth instead. A terrible fate.

@Toviyah

4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames if they didn’t get caught in the eruption would they still of died?

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I think without Sauron they could not have continued to exist in their powerful form as Nazgûl (because they were bound to him). I could be wrong though. As said they could exist without wearing the 9 rings.

@Toviyah

4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames okay thank you for the reply love your work

The unseen world = spiritual world/ next dimension

Does he have a lisp?

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

no just difficulties with the English TH 😅

The wraiths were also ring lords, perhaps their powers were from their rings not their cloaks.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

haha yes that for sure ^^ But it was more about if their cloaks hide their power to some degree.

I apprciate it

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

thanks ^^

Dude you even pronounce other youtubers and authors like they are in lord of the rings. Dear youtube just because I watched one video about LOTR doesn't mean that I want it recommended to me all the fucking time. Especially don't wanna hear these rolling Rs anymore god help us all.

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

Checking the script I assume you mean Sara Morello? She is from Italy, so the R is tapped in her name. To the rolled Rs: the English R is the exception The rolled or tapped R is far more common in other languages, esp. in languages of old. The English R appears in some dialects. Here in Germany e.g. in Siegerländerplatt (a really unusual dialect), but the trilled R is in German dialects far more common. Older English people who use the Received Pronunciation/"Oxford English" (e.g. Tolkien himself back in the day) also trilled the R here and there. And if we go back to early Middle-english or even old English/Anglo-Saxon, the R was trilled too, because yes a trilled R is than common in Indo-Germanic or Indo-European languages. It's like me complaining about that you say well instead of "vell", because in my language the English W sound does not exist anymore (it was there once, e.g. we find it in Gothic or Anglo-Saxon) and we pronounce the W like V in English as in "very". I don't understand why people have a problem with R sounds, that exist in several different forms on this planet. To solve your problem (not sure if it works): you could go to your view history of KZread and delete my or other LotR lore videos from it. Alternatively (I think it might only work on PC), you open the KZread Homepage on your PC (the mainpage, when you click on "Home"). You hover over my video and see 3 dots appears. If you click on them, you can select "not interested" or "Don't Recommand Channel". That should help.

And the one who got the Witch King accurate was Rankin Bass...you should have used that picture instead.

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

True, but I don't own a digital version of it, so getting screenshots of it is a bit difficult - esp. in a good resolution ^^' I guess visually PJ's LotR is also wider known, so I like to use screenshots from his films.

The ‘arrrrr’ ‘arrrrr’ and the ‘rrrrrrr’ ‘rrrrrrr’

@ThePhilosophersGames

3 жыл бұрын

"Yarrrr I'm a might Pirate!" - Guybrush Threepwood

great work lots of love from UK

@ThePhilosophersGames

4 жыл бұрын

much appreciated and all the best :)