What do you guys think of psychedelics? I'm really interested to hear what some fellow skeptics have to say.

@Autists-Guide

5 жыл бұрын

Purple sheep, man.

@monsterram6617

5 жыл бұрын

I've dropped acid around 5 times, eaten shrooms around a dozen times, and am a medical cannabis patient. Never had a "mystical" experience and quit smoking cold-turkey a few years ago. JBP is yet again off in la-la land on this one.

@jhonesgonzalez7341

5 жыл бұрын

I have never taken psychedelics myself, though most, if not all of, my friends have. Some of them experienced temporary behavioral changes, others just came out of it thinking it was a trippy good or bad time. I can't really think of any of them that had permanent changes to any previous behavior. I'm interested in know what types of conditioning it takes for psychedelics to have a sustained behavioral impact.

@dalebewan

5 жыл бұрын

As the author of a book on psychedelics and a rationalist, I find myself constantly coming up against those who choose to read more in to the experience than they have logical reasoning for. I strongly support the study of psychedelics for mental health issues - including that of increased general well-being in a "busy world" - but I don't ascribe anything supernatural to the experience. This is despite that through my own use of psychedelics, I have "felt the universe embracing me", "communicated with entities", and "lost my sense of self to the point that I can only describe the experience in terms of 'there was' rather than 'I felt'". The problem lies in that people without experience in logical reasoning will often take these kinds of experiences at face value, whereas I can see them as being my own brain's reaction to the substance that I ingested. A secondary problem then lies in that some claim my (rational) interpretation somehow 'cheapens' or 'weakens' the value of the experience. I disagree with that claim strongly, as while others may like to marvel at the unproven supernatural, I find it just as beautiful and meaningful to marvel at the incredible range of experience that the human brain is capable of when given the right stimuli. While I fully accept it is only an anecdote, I can say that for me at least, psychedelics have helped me become a better person in almost every aspect of my life and on that ground alone, I do what I can to spread knowledge and continued research in to their potential. I don't make claims about their effectiveness in any particular area though except where those claims can be backed up with solid research. The anecdote of my own experiences is the push that gives me the desire for continued research, the research itself (and results of it) is what really counts.

@nameerkhan6103

5 жыл бұрын

I actually had amazing acid trips, and I also feel this energy while I'm tripping, that there is something bigger than all of us. However, it is possible that is just the drugs talking. Even if the feeling is genuine and LSD, rather than creating that feeling, just allows our brain to experience it, I have no idea how that proves biblical God, and not say Odin or Zeus, or even the Celestials from Marvel comics. Or a 4th dimensional alien race, that we would perceive to be gods. Religious folks often use the possibility of the existence of a god or gods (or atleast energy/ beings we would perceive as gods) to mean evidence for THEIR, very specifc god.

I think Jordan accidentally proved that a supernatural God is a hallucination.

@linusverclyte4988

5 жыл бұрын

Proved no. It's a credible assumption though.

@albertakesson3164

5 жыл бұрын

Using drugs as an excuse to motivate _mystical_ experience as _religious_ works like a double edged-argument. It might ruin the credibility for all religions ever included!

@raymondthebrotherofperryma1403

5 жыл бұрын

But Jordan Peterson would say the hallucination is more real than real _to the person experiencing the hallucination._ God is merely a socio-psychological construct and not actual outside the human brain.

@albertakesson3164

5 жыл бұрын

@@raymondthebrotherofperryma1403 That's funny, because professor Peterson do believe in universal archetypes being connected to psychedelic drugs. But the far majority of all hallucinations cannot be classified as mere _archetypical_ in any sense. In most cases of hallucinations are strictly subjective to the individual mind. (Heck, I don't even know if any hallucinations ever, under the impression of medical illnesses, should be regarded as anything else than trying to cheat one self from a healthy perspective.) Acording to a specific individual hallucinations may seem more "real" than reality. Only; stating this would be like creating the ulitimate argument for _post modern_ subjectivism. Thus nothing is actually REAL or concrete in any physical order - we're just a buch of formless souls, having to "experience" this hallucinogenic continuum of wierd and unsettling feeling. Because material reality is somewhat false? Less real? Hallucinations doesn't unite people into an universal worldview. From my own experiences it tend to diverse people, really bad! Chaining introvert assumptions about logical incoherent truths about the physical universe.

@raymondthebrotherofperryma1403

5 жыл бұрын

@@albertakesson3164 Way I understand it a hallucination is nothing more than a dream while you're awake. Just stating JP's argument above.

“That’s KINDA like evidence” - Peterson

@transsylvanian9100

5 жыл бұрын

I laughed out loud for like 30 seconds at that ridiculous statement. I hadn't watched that part of the talk yet. JBP is such a fucking ridiculous moron. How can people take him seriously?

@Mr_Hassell

5 жыл бұрын

Matt should have waived his hands the same way Peterson did and say "It's kinda like not". I would have died.

@Siberius-

5 жыл бұрын

"I'm like a smart person" -Trump (Who also does some good hand gesturing lol).

@theaholio7037

5 жыл бұрын

Siberius Wolf Hey Dont make fun of Trump, He's actually a Very Stable Genius!

@theawecabinet

5 жыл бұрын

As a coincidence theorist I believe it is just a coincidence that thousands of people go and take ayahuasca to quit their addictions and sort out their life baggage. And the fact that it works is also a coincidence. And the fact that people have been using drugs in this way for thousands of years is also a coincidence. it is all just a massive coincidence. Aren't I clever.

My mother quit smoking as she wanted to get pregnant with myself. The urge to have a healthy child meant more to her than smoking. No supernatural bs

@Matheus-ki9zo

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know you're not a god or a deity?

@cantgetgirl

2 жыл бұрын

@@Matheus-ki9zo asking the real questions

@CourageToB

2 жыл бұрын

Give a naturalistic explanation of value.

@lordbloeckchen332

2 жыл бұрын

@@Matheus-ki9zo too stupid for that

@indigopines

2 жыл бұрын

Your mom is a very strong person, good for her and you :)

Imagine a scientist saying "It's kinda like evidence" XD

@marioarmas1459

Жыл бұрын

Dumbest comment ever said by Peterson

@Greedman456

Жыл бұрын

Jordan peterson is not a scientist, he is a psychologist, and he has lied being many things amongst them bein a neuroscientist and an evolutionary biologist...

@The13thMaker

Жыл бұрын

Regardless of the veracity of ANY of his claims, that sentence was sarcasm.

@User24x

Жыл бұрын

@@The13thMaker Jordan Peterson saying it was sarcasm? Google the definition of sarcasm. It wasn't sarcasm.

@LomuHabana

Жыл бұрын

Can Jordan Peterson really be called a scientist? Have you heard his word salad on climate change?

The fact we can recreate a mystical experience with chemistry shows it happens inside the brain and not outside of it

@ramiroexposito4010

3 жыл бұрын

I know a friend that had a close encounter with a pink elephant on psychodelics, he is so going to revolutionize zoology.

@acspicer

3 жыл бұрын

Landon’s Channel Wait, when did you prove that it was truly “mystical”? And what’s the definition of ‘mystical’?

@SovereignStatesman

3 жыл бұрын

Landon's Channel: And that Karl Marx was RIGHT about religion being the opiate of the masses, if we can duplicate the experience in a lab USING opiates.

@sorryifoldcomment8596

3 жыл бұрын

His argument would be better used FOR atheism! I'm so confused still, why would he bring up drugs...when drugs help debunk the supernatural! We don't need anything supernatural in order to create a mystical experience. We can do it all inside the brain and the body.

@sorryifoldcomment8596

3 жыл бұрын

@@SovereignStatesman 😂 this is even more hilarious considering how much Peterson bashes Marx...even though he's made it clear that he has zero clear what Marxism is and hasn't even read his book. 🤦 Once again, Peterson's argument is so bad that he ends up supporting atheism and Marx. His hated foes. He is so incompetent.

Jordan Peterson misrepresents science. Jordan Peterson: "Well, that depends on what you mean by science."

@77Night77Shade77

5 жыл бұрын

The sad thing is that, even though you're satirizing him, this is something he might _actually_ say.

@atenakehnaton3965

5 жыл бұрын

.....I thought that being something he might say in reality was self evident and that was the joke. I mean that is literally how I would expect him to respond. When backed into a corner he always argues semantics. Like when a black racist argues over the meaning of the word racist as to not be identified as the word racist even though they're still doing what they're doing, being racist.

@robertgarvansnyder4665

5 жыл бұрын

Aten Akehnaton I think your choice to add an extra word there, "black," speaks volumes about you. Read the exact same sentence without that word.

@atenakehnaton3965

5 жыл бұрын

Whether you like it or not certain groups of people are associated with certain actions because they commit those actions more. The redefining of the word racist, as a matter of semantics is something black racists are known for doing, whites racists, on the other hand typically argue "everyone's a little racist." That's why I specified the race of the racist. Different racial groups use different tactics, and there's a reason for that. The fact you were so hung up on a particular racist group being made an example out of, with no consideration for the reason why a particular racist group was pointed out is hilarious. What next? If I reference racists burning crosses, is it going to be a problem that I point out they're white racists or is that racist too?

@herobrinesblog

5 жыл бұрын

Well that depends on what you mean by well

I feel like Jordan Peterson sometimes just says random things and then tries to back up to keep his pride

@shroomer8294

2 жыл бұрын

gsajith.com/peterson-generator/ Go to this site and tell me you can honestly say whether it is something Jordan has said or not.

@saturncvitor2096

2 жыл бұрын

@@shroomer8294 THIS IS GENIUS

@themantasragauskas6394

2 жыл бұрын

I understand him.

@WhoThisMonkey

2 жыл бұрын

@@shroomer8294 My enemies on the radical left assault the archetype of Solzhenitsyn's prudent warning in The Gulag Archipelago since they insist upon their Maoist pronouns, so they had better take an IQ test. 🤔 I'm not sure what this even means 🤣 This next one... Politically correct HR departments are always whining about the configurations of heroic Meaning due to their ideology from the Columbine killers, and they pretend I'm the problem? 😳

@minhducnguyen9276

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhoThisMonkey Well at least it is grammatically correct.

He went into the Dillahunty debate with the intention to win. Very hostile, sitting forward and speaking in an incredibly condescending manner. Dillahunty owned him. It was awesome.

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

@@Daniel-yc2ur is it though?

@zapkvr

Жыл бұрын

@@Daniel-yc2ur you display a distinct lack of awareness

@chillinsquirtle

Жыл бұрын

@@Daniel-yc2ur have you seen the twitter ban video? He's like an evil idiot in that one.

@nienke7713

Жыл бұрын

Peterson is a skilled debater, and his debate opponents are usually not as good as Dillahunty, but debates aren't necesarily won by those who have facts on their sides, being able to convince your public or even sow enough doubt about your opponent's point of view can be enough. There's plenty of tricks and tactics that can be used, and are used by Peterson, to convince audiences of his points and make audiences doubt the points of his opponents, without Peterson having facts on his side.

@aliquida7132

Жыл бұрын

@@Daniel-yc2ur He always makes logical errors like this. Every video with him talking has him being like this. The only difference is that in THIS video, someone with good debating skills called him out on it.

Jordan Peterson: I'm always right because I say the biggest words. Alex Jones: I'M ALWAYS RIGHT BECAUSE I TALK LOUDEST!!!!!! Ben Shapiro: ImalwaysrightbecauseItalkthefastest!

@jonsnor4313

5 жыл бұрын

He is right(wing).

@Ascend777

5 жыл бұрын

"Low-resolution thinking." This guy has a Bachelor degree, yet he uses the biggest words that in the wrong context.

@shooterrick1

5 жыл бұрын

@@Ascend777 I believe he does it quite intentionally. He knows the types of people who like what he says, and says whatever (and however) they want to hear. You don't get a degree by being dumb as a rock and being wrong every time.

@kevinkonig3892

5 жыл бұрын

@@shooterrick1 BS he had all that (most of them) opinions already before there were "the types of people who like what he says". And many of those people already concluded those things themselves.

@AlexFlockhart

5 жыл бұрын

@@Ascend777 How is "low-resolution" the wrong term to use in the context of discussing thought? I thought it was a fairly good way of describing thinking about a larger system without consideration of details and specifics. Not arguing, just trying to understand your comment.

I thought I didn't like Jordan Peterson, but then I learned my dislike of him was just an archetype of the metaphysical perception of my intrinsic motivation to fundamentally value rational thought... ...So I still don't like him.

@sarahpn2695

5 жыл бұрын

Jason Martin best comment ever.

@JM-us3fr

5 жыл бұрын

Well that depends on what you mean by "depends"

@ryanfranks9441

5 жыл бұрын

That was beautiful, truly a beautiful criticism of this ideologues thinking.

@roder51

5 жыл бұрын

WHere can I copy and paste what you copied and pasted?

@dreadjack117

5 жыл бұрын

Amazing

I quit smoking in 2001, already an atheist, no chemical assistance, never had a psychedelic experience.

@Floruxman

Жыл бұрын

IMPOSSIBRU!!

@matwatson7947

7 ай бұрын

J.P has since decided you weren't really an Atheist

Peterson is a master of sophistry. Not intended as a compliment.

@mohithhoney9630

Жыл бұрын

Yeah and what's worse is, he probably doesn't consciously know it. Atleast the orignal sophists knew they were full of bullshit and all they cared about was winning the argument. And for anyone who doesn't know what sophists are or what sophistry is. It originated somewhere around 2500 B.C.E or probably even before and was basically the earliest forms of being a lawyer. (That's oversimplifying it but that's the gist of it anyway)

@technodusk5932

Жыл бұрын

Vaush fans mauling at hearing that sophistry is bad

@FactStorm

Жыл бұрын

Lol I don't think sophistry is ever considered a compliment

@owengaul3226

Жыл бұрын

@@technodusk5932 vaush admits hes wrong peterson never dose he did a video on how he though de linked party in Germany was nazzbol and then was proved wrong and brought on the guy to teach him why he was wrong

@tsurumi4176

Жыл бұрын

Im like Socrates (I hate sophistry)

"God is real if you drug yourself hard enough that you believe in him." - Jordan Peterson

@vistagreat9994

3 жыл бұрын

Lord Tsukomyomi

@wagner9527

3 жыл бұрын

Izanagui

@vistagreat9994

3 жыл бұрын

your profile picture is Chang'e's husbando, also good quote

@spiderworld384

3 жыл бұрын

@@vistagreat9994 it’s the moon lord

@123telamon

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with that quote xdd

"I'm an atheist and I think that's consistent with having universal moral values." JP: "Haha, you're delusional, you don't know what you actually believe and what's real!" "I believe in the supernatural and god, because I felt it on a mushroom trip." JP: "Sounds legit."

@SovereignStatesman

4 жыл бұрын

Only JP could equate morality with DURESS.

@rayaqin

3 жыл бұрын

real is not an absolute, objective thing. The only statement that can be said with relative certainty is cogito ergo sum.

@SovereignStatesman

3 жыл бұрын

"Dr. Peterson, Religion is simply abstract reasoning for law." "That's absurd; IQ is the only consistent measure of human intellect, so the highest are God's rulers. "Mine's higher than yours." "LET ME FINISH...."

@carlojimeneztrader

3 жыл бұрын

Im actually curious with your first statement there. How is atheism consistent with having universal moral values? Lets say im an atheist. If there is no divine punishment, and if i can get away with it 100 percent (from the police), then why should i not kill my wretched 90 year old neighbor and taking her money for myself?

@rayaqin

3 жыл бұрын

@@carlojimeneztrader Matt explains it in the video above. It's because if you do that, others will do it to you too. There has to be an agreement between humans to avoid chaos, and allow prosperity. If you can do it without anyone finding out though... well idk what Matt would say about that.

"we've got lots of hearsay and conjecture, those are *kinds* of evidence" - Jordan Peterson

My boyfriend stopped smoking....he didn't get sex if he had smoked even one cigarette. It worked. We have been together 35yrs.

@surajvijay3746

3 жыл бұрын

May be he had some kind of mystical experience as well because of no sex. Seems likes that is absolutely required to quit smoking 😂

@davidregi7571

3 жыл бұрын

That will do

@fluffynator6222

3 жыл бұрын

The explanation is simple: You're god.

@YokaiX

3 жыл бұрын

Sex is a most effective positive reinforcement.

@CourageToB

2 жыл бұрын

how old was he 35 years ago and how many attempts did he make to stop smoking prior?

Matt: "you can't stop smoking without supernatural intervention?" Jordan: "No, not really" Me (a psychologist): "Jordan, can we have your clinical psychology degree back?"

@sorryifoldcomment8596

3 жыл бұрын

But then what will his fans have to throw out in his defense??? It's very important they can say he went to college!! Something people who don't have a college degree find fancy.

@joebomb1019

3 жыл бұрын

My dad worked as a counselor for a while, so he helped a lot of mentally unstable people. It's something I respect him for, even though he's still a Christian and I am not. Anyways, back in the Christian school I went to, I noticed a Bible class's book's thoughts on counseling. In the book's words, "secular" counseling was immoral, depression was the victim being selfish, and the only true way to solve it was through prayer. How to piss me off in one paragraph:

@iRobble88

3 жыл бұрын

@davy boy LOL!!! You have a lot of faith in your imperfect, majorly evil, fellow man that I do not share. To think that a therapist can help anyone simply because they have a degree is absurd and very fucking stupid. You must live in a world of fairies and rainbows, if sin never enters into it. “Good and evil are subjective” ahahaha that’s cute.

@MrChosenmarine

3 жыл бұрын

I can say with confidence that Peterson is far more qualified than you

@thoughtfuldevil6069

3 жыл бұрын

@@iRobble88 What a loving, gentle Christian you are ;)

Jordan Peterson must have some great legs, with all those conclusions he's jumping to.

@mariaathena7910

5 жыл бұрын

And going up and down while stating them

@TonecrafteLuthiery

5 жыл бұрын

😏

@grayskull1521

5 жыл бұрын

Yay! ³³³

@geoffreysorkin5774

4 жыл бұрын

He's got legs, and he knows how to use 'em

@SovereignStatesman

4 жыл бұрын

Hoku Okalani: The grasshopper assumes winter will never come.

You are a clear thinker and intellectually honest. Keep up the good work.

@ihatespam2

Жыл бұрын

That’s his act anyway. Some people buy it.

@RoseRose-20983

Жыл бұрын

@@ihatespam2 Do you think jordan peterson is doing the same act?

@ihatespam2

Жыл бұрын

@@RoseRose-20983 same as what? Just saying he has this pretend sincerity and humbleness which seems common with believers.

@johnathantai

Жыл бұрын

@@ihatespam2 do you have any substance that backs up his "pretentious sincerity", do you actually have any objections to anything he said? if so, instead of making prescriptive assumptions maybe you could give some counter points to things he says.

@ihatespam2

Жыл бұрын

@@johnathantai granted, it was just a random insult with little substance. But the basis of his whole schtick, that Jesus is real and a god just because people believe it is patent crap. I won’t get in to the depths of his complex metaphysical philosophy, he certainly is intelligent, I just disagree with nearly every conclusion he makes and he has the personality of a worm.

Holy shit, he sounds absolutely insane, like he straight up sounds like a south park character

@67byte20

3 жыл бұрын

Well, he's an extreme right wing white suprematist, did you expect something sane? 😂

@ewan3415

3 жыл бұрын

@@67byte20 I hope that's a joke

@67byte20

3 жыл бұрын

@@ewan3415 But he is 😂

@ewan3415

3 жыл бұрын

@@67byte20 In what sense? I mean you can disagree with his ideas but he’s clearly not extreme right wing, nor is he a white supremacist

@67byte20

3 жыл бұрын

@@ewan3415 Conservative, resonating with the Alt Right, if you read into his words a bit more and manage to not get swindled by his words you will notice. He's insane, dangerous and crazy.

He said he didn't like SJWs in 2016 and now people act like this man is a god.

@Monkofpo

5 жыл бұрын

@Some One Probably, I like Peterson when he "debates" sometimes. Just a fun dude to listen to, but I would never go by what he says. He uses many fallacies, but I would also like to mention that the KZreadr we are watching right now uses some as well. So, an apple is an orange in some ways.

@Norce555

5 жыл бұрын

Some One the thing though is that most experts in any field know better than to pretend to be experts in others. Peterson is still trying to use his credentials as a reason for us to believe him on other subjects. Sure you could say that he’s not trying to fool anybody and that he just has his opinions like anyone else, but it is also okay for one to say “I don’t know enough about this topic to debate it”. You don’t HAVE to make all your thoughts and ideas into public debates

@sourishhazra2636

5 жыл бұрын

Agreed and he isn't to be blamed.

@wickedAberration

5 жыл бұрын

@@zynostik5873 to be fair, you made an unhinged response of "he basically is [god]." About a fellow who's... Mildly narcicicstic, and pretty disingenuous in debates. Iunno, it's a hard pass from me, but I think you should get how absurd the deification of a small time guy who's running high off a self help book and "anti-SJW" culture is do rampant.

@wickedAberration

5 жыл бұрын

@@zynostik5873 He very clearly tries to bait people with "ambiguous" talking points with subtext to read into. I mean, Im unsure of some of the claims, but he's pretty clearly unconcerned with women's issues. If you listen to him, even when "clarifying" his forced monogamy statement, he said "I'm not suggesting we force women to be with useless men". It's hard not to read into this pattern of behavior as everyone misrepresenting him; it's much more reasonable to surmise that things are left intentionally provocative and vague to stir the pot and get eyes back on him. I wouldn't call Peterson wise by any stretch of the imagination, but he is a smart cookie in a few ways. I do apologise but sarcasm doesn't read well, and "lol" these days has lost most meaning. And while self help books are not necessarily bad, Dr Phil isn't exactly a paragon of morality either. But it's not enough to justify the pseudo-celebrity status that Peterson enjoys.

Shouldn’t a psychologist realise that taking drugs just alters your brain chemistry?

@Ink129

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly - Peterson should know this better than anyone. Leaves one pretty flabbergasted that he doesn't...

@andersengman3896

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but so what? Smoking a cigarette also "alters your brain chemistry", as does watching a painting or listening to a piece of music. He's talking about drugs altering your brain chemistry in such a way that you quit "bad" habits, e.g. smoking. I've done a shitload of psychedelics myself, but I never managed to quit smoking -- problably because I don't consider it a "bad" habit at all. :p

@GinEric84

5 жыл бұрын

He should probably understand how morality works too but even in doubt Peterson always errors on the side of magic

@juliengravier3917

5 жыл бұрын

"He's talking about drugs altering your brain chemistry in such a way that you quit "bad" habits" This is indeed the rational conclusion but that is not his claim. He is claiming that drug-induced mystical experiences are evidence of the supernatural because it (supposedly) helped some people quit smoking. Not exactly a rational claim coming from someone who knows that drugs affect brain chemistry.

@nidavelliir

5 жыл бұрын

He knows, he's just a liar

It's scary how he can lie so smoothly and make it sound like the absolute truth.

@GreyPunkWolf

Жыл бұрын

Sophism at its finest. It's very scary indeed, he's incredibly good at it.

@whyplaypiano2844

Жыл бұрын

@@GreyPunkWolf I had never heard of that word before, "Sophism." Thank you for adding a word to my dictionary!

@xxxtabamimingxxx6853

Жыл бұрын

It's not smooth that's why he doesn't debate great debaters anymore like ,dillahunty ,sam Harris ,Dawkins because he can't win against those guys ..he'll just get expose ...he's stuck with those feminist ,and activist who got point but don't know how to refute a statement or debate articulately

@whyplaypiano2844

Жыл бұрын

@@xxxtabamimingxxx6853 It IS smooth in the sense that most Peterson cult members take everything he says as absolute truth. Then, they go on to spout his blatant bs everywhere they can. Peterson knows the human mind, hence the Psychology degree. In other words, he knows exactly what he's doing.

@unwishfulthink

Жыл бұрын

Peterson sound smooth only if you don't listen carefully. When you play it back you'd easily realize Peterson is full of shit and constantly contradicting himself. He is a self-own machine.

I took a lot of psychadelics as a young man. Never once had a spiritual experience, just a bunch of fun. For a while I thought it helped with my depression, but most depressed people recover on their own without intervention, and my recovery from depression may simply have coincided with my recreational use of psychadelics. Remember: even the best anecdote only has a sample size of one. That said: Even if using psychadelics reliably caused a "spiritual" experience, all it would prove is that spiritualism refers to a physiological departure from equilibrium and not a concrete external state of being.

@revan552

Жыл бұрын

As much as I hate to use the word "spiritual" I find it is the best word to describe certain types of experiences. I've done a fair amount of psychedelics, and for me, they were literally life changing, and (anecdotally) basically cured my depression/anxiety disorder, and I've had some seriously "spiritual" experiences with them. Interesting how differently they can affect people. They were incredibly transformative and "spiritual" and therapeutic for me. (Also some of the absolute worst things I've ever experienced... 😅)

Psychedelics are helpful therefore God exists. Checkmate, Atheists.

@bennettlane4274

3 жыл бұрын

I know this from somewhere...

@jamestor6700

3 жыл бұрын

Matt: you can stop smoking without supernatural intervention Jordan: No, not really Also Jordan: you can use a drug called Buproban, I think thats the one its whatever Wellbutrin is Matt: is that supernatural? Jordan: No, you don't need a supernatural affect classic case of contradicting yourself

@justinp9775

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamestor6700 interesting that you stopped the quote there. The rest of his sentence was "but that doesn't work very well". And it doesn't. His point is that a "supernatural effect " is needed (if you accept psychedelic experiences as supernatural) or at least is by far the only reliable way to quit smoking. I think your comment is a classic example of a strawman.

@jairomenares2089

3 жыл бұрын

@J Austin the "x -> *leap in logic* -> therefore, god exists. Checkmate atheists." thing is a meme, usually used as an ironic parody. But you didn't understand it, which means you're wrong, therefore, god exists. Checkmate atheist.

@jairomenares2089

3 жыл бұрын

@J Austin I swear I just had a stroke reading this, and for some reason it feels like I'm supposed to break dance... Anyway, you win. I don't know if you were joking or were serious, but I just can't comprehend whatever you just said. In case you weren't joking, I was.

Maybe I’m a little bit drunk, but that’s the best opening to a video ever.

@dyslexiusmaximus

5 жыл бұрын

hahaha i am also drunk but i think you're right

@misc.2331

5 жыл бұрын

I gave a like right then and there haha!

@papapepepenultimo

5 жыл бұрын

As someone who is very drunk, I can confirm.

@benwhitnell

5 жыл бұрын

Can’t be sure you’re not having a mystical experience brah.

@warped_rider

5 жыл бұрын

It's good to know I'm not alone in my imbibing of alcohol while watching these kinds of videos.

Once science discovers evidence of something supernatural, it's now just "natural".

@popiko282

Жыл бұрын

It probably will never find anything of the kind anyways

@narrativeless404

10 ай бұрын

​@@popiko282Right Because it just doesn't exist

Peterson always seemed to me like he belongs on r/iamverysmart

@randominternetguy3537

2 жыл бұрын

He is smart. But he is also stupid. He's a human, and is wrong a lot. He is also right a lot. In fact, he just talks a lot.

@randominternetguy3537

2 жыл бұрын

@Alisa Ushakova no, Joe Biden is the definition of brain dead. Peterson is just an arrogant person who is wrong some times. He is also right sometimes. Still arrogant

@philderkomischetyp4481

2 жыл бұрын

@Alisa Ushakova I don't think you have watched one of his lectures. You're lying there unless you're just wanting to prove a point that doesn't exist besides the usual slip-ups like this one.

@philderkomischetyp4481

2 жыл бұрын

@Skelook Actual I think you responded to the wrong person

@ukulin8525

2 жыл бұрын

@@joaovmlsilva3509 Wait, did Peterson really say that 😃?

"That's kinda like evidence y'know" says to me "it's not evidence but I'm going to make it seem like it is"

In all honesty, I've found these videos about JP hard to watch, not because they're not well done (they are) or because the claims are false (they're not), but because Its so convenient to believe that someone is never wrong. What you're doing here is super important and I applaud you.

@ataj585

2 жыл бұрын

JP is such a captivating communicator and that makes it worse. He draws attention using utmost urgency and then provides such misleading information and interpretation on various topics on several occasions...I respect him a lot but this is just disappointing and truly pathetic. So many people look up to him...I once did, still kinda do, and this is what he gives to them? Actually, I feel this is what large hordes of his audiences and followers want or seek...it's like the food that their "soul" needs, truly saddening.

@CourageToB

2 жыл бұрын

the problem is, that his wannabe debunking shows his total lack of understanding of what he is talking about. further, he offers a study and then hasnt read it but tries to claim big time he is debunking one of the most credible scientists in his field. sorry - fail.

@ThePepsimax84

2 жыл бұрын

Yea, i also saw some videos by peterson on the gender equality paradox. I thought it was quite interesting and did some research on it myself and many of things he said are scientically sound but the way peterson conveys the subject makes me sick to the stomach because he skews the scientific landscape to his advantage, sometimes even scientific data in this case.

@KalebPeters99

2 жыл бұрын

It's a natural human tendency to deify some and vilify others It's best to remember everyone is human and has both flaws and virtues! ✨

@neurofiedyamato8763

2 жыл бұрын

"or because the claims are false (they're not)" Hold up there, he is wrong A LOT. Don't know if it is intentional or not... but he frequently talks about fields of study he has no understanding of. And when judging their validity, he throws out the scientific method. To me he lost all credibility. If I want to hear a perspective from a psychologist, I would consider him, but there's also plenty of others available, ones that aren't as likely to be disingenuous when they are wrong or lacking knowledge on the given subject. They also at least try to separate their political opinion from science. JP is using science to further his world view rather than let science guide his world view.

I believe everything Jordan Peterson says because I'm stupid.

@janglandis773

2 жыл бұрын

Oh please listen to JP. He knows so much about self-esteem. In fact, he is an expert on EVERYTHING. His recent and latest expertise is Christianity. He isn't doing so great on the political front, but never mind, he's switched to religion. I believe everything JP tells me because he uses these big words I don't understand. That tells me right off that he's smarter than I am. Last night I prayed to JP for clarity and in a dream he told me he was god. And I believed him, cuz like I said he uses all these biggly words. And just lately on twitter, he told me which women are beautiful and which are not so that I now know heavier set women are very unattractive, so I am ditching my present girlfriend and looking for one that only eats beef and salt. Also one that doesn't wear makeup because women who wear makeup are inviting sexual harassment. This is something he actually said, (look it up) By his own admission he was accused three times of sexual harassment by former students who were probably wearing makeup. And I know he is right about all this because he is god and uses all these big words. I rely entirely on JP to tell me what to think. I never question him. I Pray in Jordan Peterson's name, Amen. TThsakzread.info/dash/bejne/iJ6TzrCLec_JpLw.html

@user-rp1rk8ku9u

Жыл бұрын

@@janglandis773 you're comment made my day😂

"Well, it's not definitive evidence." But that's what you want, right?

I really enjoyed this conversation between Peterson and Matt. Not sure how productive it was but Matt didn't let JP get away with every random claim he made.

@bbqseitan7106

5 жыл бұрын

Rule 1 of debating quaks: DON'T LET THEM BE QUAKS

Jordan Peterson's entire argument is summed up very well by one thing he said, "That's sorta like evidence." Yeah... and a light bulb is sorta like the sun.

@linusverclyte4988

5 жыл бұрын

Lol

@RodelIturalde

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, a light bulb is sort of like the sun. They share quite a few abilities, most known, they bring light.

@Valorince

4 жыл бұрын

At the end of the day, the light bulb isn't the Sun.

@danscalia7427

4 жыл бұрын

The point is that there is clear evidence that if you go on a trip with a psycho-active drug its easier to take a good look backwards and forwards in one’s life and decide when fully sober, using your own active agency, to quit a nasty habit/ smoking. If you want to nitpick it to death thats your perogative. There is a difference between the supernatural and a “mystical experience”.

@JDUBB2399

4 жыл бұрын

@@danscalia7427 They're missing the point. He didn't even say you have to use psychedelics. He just said that's how you quit chemically.

As someone who's entirely pro psychedelics, the "mystical" experiences are usually just coming from your subconscious, people quit smoking after them because most smokers want to quit whether they'll admit it or not. Nothing supernatural about it.

*my mom quitting smoking while being pregnant with me* Peterson: IT WAS BECAUSE OF GOD

@richardfoster2895

Жыл бұрын

No, it was because she wanted you to be born healthy. Motherly love.

@Skyhigh-hu6rf

Жыл бұрын

@@richardfoster2895 no shit?!?!

@narrativeless404

10 ай бұрын

​@@Skyhigh-hu6rfYes just that SCP fan

I'm sorry, did this man just say that people quitting smoking after taking magic mushrooms and experiencing something they call mystical constitutes evidence both of the supernatural and a reliable means of examining it? Like, even if all that were true, all it suggests is psilocybin should be explored as as treatment for nicotine addiction.

@dylanmah7791

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, and there is some basis for claiming that psychedelic compounds may be able to facilitate long term behavioral changes such as smoking cessation (but a need for further research), but the part about it being evidence of the supernatural or a means of investigating it is completely absurd.

@christianschwalbach7561

5 жыл бұрын

Not quite. Peterson's point is that religious mystical experiences , which can be similar to drug usage in some cases , can lead to profound insights and reflection in individuals. JP is terrible at making clear points and in all reality isnt really a Christian in the traditional sense, so it can be challenging to follow his points (if they exist) at times

@BFSearle

5 жыл бұрын

These studies seem to point towards that conclusion. Not Peterson's conclusion - but bigger studies are likely to try to determine how effective psilocybin could be for a variety of things. I think the biggest issue in the study of these compounds is how much care needs to be taken and pre-screening in order to even give someone a chemical like psilocybin - it seems like it could be dangerous to a lot of people and turning it into a clinical drug to be used for nicotine addiction (or addiction more broadly) would have to come with a whole host of OTHER research trying to minimize potential negative side effects. That said - it seems like a psychologically healthy person who ingests psilocybin and has the desire to quit smoking and also does other supplenentary cognitive behavioral therapy has a pretty good chance of quitting smoking. So id be happy to see more research trying to understand this mechanism and the relationship between the two.

@angelmendez-rivera351

4 жыл бұрын

BFSearle This has little to do with the supernatural, though. The conclusion of the studies do not infer his conclusion, so his argument is non sequitur.

@angelmendez-rivera351

4 жыл бұрын

Christian Schwalbach Yes, which is semantically identical to what the OP stated. So, your point is not founded on anything clever, it's just totaly redundant. And it should be noted that religious experiences are nothing but just experiences of a kind. The individual FEELS like the have detected and seen the supernatural. That is the experience. That does not prove they ACTUALLY did observe the supernatural. Implying they did is a logical fallacy. Let me let you in on a secret: there is a reason we think with the rules of logics and not with emotions. You cannot prove something via emotions. This should be self-evident. Just because you feel something does not mean it actually happened. The body can be easily deceived, as can be the brain.

Ok so you take psychedelics and you have a mystical experience. That doesn’t confirm the supernatural. It just confirms you were higher than a kite.

@AdilReza

5 жыл бұрын

If observed under controlled environment such observations can be counted as scientific

@MRayner59

5 жыл бұрын

And what the heck does it have to do with quitting smoking?

@StarGazerJim

5 жыл бұрын

Martin Rayner IKR?

@AdilReza

5 жыл бұрын

Peterson's claim was psychedelics helps you quit smoking only if you experience mysticism after taking those drugs. If that's the case and this observation is found to be consistent in multiple experiments, it seemingly follows that some mystic forces affect human's psychology but there could be other explanations which would require further investigation.

@spartanladkenny7870

5 жыл бұрын

Adil Reza Not really! If you watch the rest of the debate Dillahunty talks about having psychedelic experience on drugs like a wood grains on the door turned into some animal which landed in his bathtub. He was 100% sure that it was real. People report seeing a lot of things on drugs. One of my friends used to regularly freak out that his legs were cut off after getting high. His legs were fine. Reporting mystical experience means nothing. Science can't "prove" there supernatural. There's solid logic behind this: 1) firstly, for you to claim "supernatural" experience you have to first define what is a supernatural experience. Humans have certain concepts of what's supernatural. That is what influences your brain into producing those images. 2) Then one has to compare one person's supernatural experience with another person's supernatural experience. If one person sees flying donkeys while the other sees space travel, are they both mystical? 3) Will this same experience repeat again in exactly same manner? Science operates on the ability to be able to achieve same results over and over again for it to be reliable. That does not happen with hallucinogens Peterson's conclusions are so Illogical it's actually embarrassing that a college professor lacks basic analytical abilities on this subject.

It’s what happens when you can speak with a modicum of eloquence . You can fool any person lacking robust critical thinking.

I quit smoking 30 years ago when I accidentally locked myself out of my dorm room late one night to step outside and have a smoke and nearly froze to death. Now, while I guess you could technically call that a near-death experience, I wouldn't claim any part of that was "supernatural" or "mystical," and I haven't touched a cigarette since.

@CourageToB

2 жыл бұрын

how old were you 30 years ago and how many prior attempts did you make to quit?

@thechh8297

Жыл бұрын

God planned it that way. Boom! That event just became a supernatural experience. You're welcome.

@devinphillips9704

Жыл бұрын

@@thechh8297 Soooo.... assuming God plans everything, that thereby makes every experience a supernatural experience, then? Does that include every time I go to the toilet or every time a child is abducted and murdered, or just people quitting smoking?

@thechh8297

Жыл бұрын

@@devinphillips9704 all of the above. Literally everything ever.

@Celebrimbor965

Жыл бұрын

​@@devinphillips9704 god only planned it when something positive happened

This is why I don't like debates. If one side is dishonest, they can get away with a whole bunch of nice sounding claims, without the other side having the time to verify those claims. Debates can not control for the gish-gallop.

@TheJohnnyonthespot1

5 жыл бұрын

Matt Dillahunty is the master of laying down the hammer on spouters of verbal diarrhea. He didn't let Jordan Peterson get away with the gish gallop.

Say it with sufficient confidence and a sophisticated vocabulary and you can convince rubes of anything.

@ancbi

5 жыл бұрын

tremendous, believe me! --- do my vocab checks out?

@ZenBearV13

5 жыл бұрын

Hah! Fair point. The much good words ain't so impertent.

@roygossjr

5 жыл бұрын

But wording is hard....so very hard...

@jamesw7098

5 жыл бұрын

Just exhibit extreme swagger and dial the vocab game up to 11 and the credulous will flock to you until the Guardian writes articles about you saying you're the "closest thing philosophy has to a rock star." Mr. Bear, you sir have just described Jortard Peterson's entire game.

@Madar_Chod069

5 жыл бұрын

Bigly

Jordan Peterson has rarely been accused of intellectual honesty.

@matthewhendricks4308

2 жыл бұрын

That so perfectly encapsulates him 😂

I can say that personally, psilocybin helped me quit smoking. I realize that it isn't a double blind placebo controlled study. I didn't have a mystical experience, but find during the comedown I can be put into a euphoric mindset where I can make self reflections easier and commit to changes. Then I went onto nicotine replacement therapy and got a counselor. I think drugs help show religion and belief in supernatural can be caused by changes in brain chemistry and likely started that way. I think we can reproduce out of body experiences and seeing a bright light with Ketamine. But most religious people get pissed when you bring that up if they ask about people's experience when they "die" on the operating table. I do think "mystical experiences" do cause people to change, and in many cases it can be a bad dream. An uncle of mine quit smoking cold turkey after a cancer scare and the dreams that resulted. Iboga works well for getting people off drugs. Companies are trying to make a non-hallucinogenic version of it, but me and many other fans of pharmacology are skeptical if it would work without the experience of hallucinating.

@boianko

Жыл бұрын

In the same boat. I took a dose of mushrooms and quit cigarettes the next day after 6 months of intensive smoking. That being said, I took mushrooms with the express idea of quitting, and was never under the illusion that actual magic would happen. My brain being chemically altered wasn't magical or mystical, it was purely natural and explainable (even if the drug isn't fully understood). What Peterson presents is a new age version of God of the Gaps.

The guy who thinks people who describe themselves as atheists aren't really atheists also has no problem with people who describe having spiritual experiences as factually having experienced something spiritual.. or whats even worse, that there are somehow reflecting actual existance of a spiritual world.. which i hope isn't the thing hes alluding to

@andersengman3896

5 жыл бұрын

You gotta love how he automatically assumes you've been raped by a priest or something if you call yourself an atheist. xD

@maximeteppe7627

5 жыл бұрын

he's completely alluding to it: the guy thinks in terms of archetypes, which as far as my understanding of JBP goes exist in some sort of platonic realm of ideas that is more real than the physical world. Or at least it's real enough because the belief in it is useful to survival in natural selection... yes he believes that if a belief is "useful to survival" then it is true.

@johnnyhughes5537

5 жыл бұрын

Yup, it's exacting. I would also like to know if the survey accounted for those who had a predisposition to 'supernatural experiences'. For example how many of those surveyed quit smoking without a supernatural experience or did any of those surveyed who were non smokers take up smoking after their drug induced experience. I am not well-informed on these matters but would it be comparable to conduct similar surveys using LSD or hypnosis? Part of Peterson's point seems to be that the supernatural element of the experience was authenticated because it was involuntary. Could that be what Kierkegaard called a leap of faith?

@Ugly_German_Truths

5 жыл бұрын

+DeadEndFrog What Peterson accepts or refutes seems awfully close connected to what he previously liked and did not like. He has no problems with enforcing equality of chance and / or outcome when it means securing him a lucrative speaking engagement despite attempts to "deplatform" him. He only is strongly against it, when it involves giving people he does not care for chances or when it means he as a professor has to work on ensuring that equality and he has to look like he means it.

@Strill_

5 жыл бұрын

@Maxine Teppe He's trying to describe the subjective human experience objectively. You experience the world within your own mind. That experience, even though it is not directly measurable from the outside, is nevertheless real and true within that context; it is part of reality. Furthermore, all of our observations exist within this subjective reality. Peterson argues that the subjective experience is in fact, more important than external reality, because our subjective experiences are ultimately the bottom line determining why we even care about the external world at all in the first place. Why do we want wealth? Why do we want life? Why can't we just ignore everything else? It's not because the alternative is impossible, or because we're logical creatures, or because we've rationally decided we want those things. It's because our base instincts and psychological drives arbitrarily tell us "this is important", full stop. They're the basic axioms of the human mind. Every bit of your desires and understanding of the outside world is premised on and filtered through those base drives and axioms, often without any conscious understanding on your part. These base axioms, and the patterns of consequences they create in the physical world, are the archetypes that Peterson is referring to. When he says they are more real than the physical world, he's saying that, ultimately, the only reality you can ever experience is subjective reality, where these axioms and archetypes dominate over all other factors. Because the evolution of our minds has been shaped through natural selection, what is true in our subjective reality therefore reflects the factors which have been selected for. Therefore if a belief is "useful to survival", and has been naturally selected for, it is true within that subjective context, because it, in part, dictates how we understand the world.

“Dr Peterson, what’s your favorite color?” “Well that depends on what you mean by favorite. And it also depends on what you mean by color. This is a very complex question... One must acknowledge the underlying verisimilitude that is irrevocably nested within a multi-layered metaphysical substrate that many people fundamentally conflate with their ideological presuppositions with no uncertain irregularity, and not dissimilar to Jung's extrapolation of the archetypal and axiomatic juxtaposition of Raskolnikov's neo-Marxist existential nihilism. With that said... I've written an 800 page book on the subject which unpacks the uninformative intimations with unmitigated precision, both biologically and metaphysically..."

@henry.g.9093

4 жыл бұрын

I like Jordan Peterson. But, this was hilarious.

@baphometic8767

4 жыл бұрын

someone posts this exact same comment on every video featuring peterson lol

@danielculpepper9258

4 жыл бұрын

Hoichi The Earless ROFL Well done! This is exactly Peterson and it is hilarious!

@midnight_rambler5571

4 жыл бұрын

I read this in his voice lmao

@StevenEveral

4 жыл бұрын

Don't forget that you have to listen to a series of his podcasts and an hour-long Patreon only podcast and read two of his books and Raskolnikov to get a real understanding of what he thinks of color.

I like some of Peterson’s material, especially the more psychological content, but all of his content on god and religion is bullocks. He doesn’t speak plainly and logically while discussing religion, he talks in circles and rattles off a bunch of metaphorical mystical mumbo jumbo, throws in some big words to make it seem legit and then speaks with charisma so that maybe you’ll buy it. As a result what is now happening is an entire generation of Gen z and millennials that listen to Peterson are becoming religious when they otherwise probably wouldn’t have been.

@41-Haiku

2 жыл бұрын

On the other hand, he also accidentally convinced me out of religion, because I liked a lot of what he said, but he brought enough naturalistic explanations with him that I realized the religious component was redundant. Bridges go both ways, it seems.

@yaredtsegayeart4970

Жыл бұрын

"Well it depends what you mean by god"

Gotta agree. I just watched him crying his eyes out when describing "his relationship with Jesus," and that pretty much wrapped it up for me. Not that such overt emotional displays aren't called for at times, it just that they should be confined to the pulpit, not for general philosophical consumption.

Oh my god, Jordan Peterson thinks an anecdote of a psychedelic trip is “kinda like evidence.” People take this man’s every utterance as gospel... How?

@thomasmaughan4798

4 жыл бұрын

You have your thought leaders; others have theirs.

@SovereignStatesman

4 жыл бұрын

Ryan Franks: Because he's a cult-leader who makes a Mecca out of a mushroom. That's the standard mark of a Sociopath, deceiving ignorant followers by promising unrealistic visions, denouncing skeptics as enemies, and blaming inevitable failure on "infidels."

@SovereignStatesman

3 жыл бұрын

Ryan Franks: I believe in law they call that HEARSAY evidence.... by someone who was beyond legally intoxicated.

@Volkbrecht

3 жыл бұрын

You have to understand Peterson's use of the word "real". Dillahunty uses the term differently, which creates the misunderstanding. "The supernatural" doesn't have to be "real" in the sense that it is an objectively existing thing in order to be real enough to have an influence on human development and existence. For most of us, that is not the way we think, which is why Peterson's utterances may sound a bit alien. A thing is either real, then we can interact with it, perceive it with our five senses, or it is not, then it's fictional. If you look at it like that, god definitely is fictional. But, here's the thing, religion isn't. But when the fictional god makes real people do real things, doesn't that make him somewhat real? After all, because of god things happen and get created that fulfill our everyday definition of "real". And what does it mean when people from different cultural backgrounds take drugs and describe to each other experiences that they both regard as "mystical"? Wouldn't that mean that we share, on a genetic level, an understanding of the "supernatural", the "spiritual", even if it only exists in our heads when we are high? And is Peterson really an idiot for trying to make sense of it? Personally, I don't agree with all of Peterson's views. But I have learned so much from him that I'll rather think a second and even a third time about things he says that seem to make no sense before dismissing them. Chances are, there's something there I may not have regarded properly.

@motorhead48067

3 жыл бұрын

@@Volkbrecht The fact that Jordan Peterson doesn’t know what the word real means doesn’t mean people aren’t “regarding” his utterances correctly. He simply misuses terms and (perhaps intentionally, but he does seem sincere so maybe not) obfuscates simple issues. Take his discussions with Harris for example. Peterson doesn’t seem to know what truth means. He conflates it with adaptive advantage, then when Harris calls him on this and says “why don’t you just say adaptive advantage instead of truth” Peterson says “well what helps you survive is in a deep sense true.” Those are paraphrases but accurate ones. Peterson then can continue to call things true that simply aren’t true because he’s using a different definition. If Peterson wanted to clarify issues and use conversation to converge on the truth, he wouldn’t talk in this way. He has to speak the same English as everyone else otherwise people can’t possibly understand what he actually believes. Peterson could say “thing x is not actually true, but it helped the species survive and may be important, so let’s not dismiss it” but instead he says “thing x is true and we can’t live without it so don’t even doubt it’s veracity.”

I quit smoking cold turkey, literally just stopped and never picked it back up, so I’m confused about Petersons assertion lol

@peterfrenzke6251

2 жыл бұрын

Me too. Im also an atheist.

@theintelligentmilkjug944

2 жыл бұрын

He said it was possible but not likely.

@isaacgruver7061

2 жыл бұрын

"And being able to quit cold turkey sounds to me like something one might call a miracle. So you did experience a spiritual intervention." -Jordan Peterson, probably

@cl5470

2 жыл бұрын

Turns out that he was an active addict of pain killers at the time. "You can't just quit" is one of the lies we addicts tell ourselves. Peterson needs to clean out his own closet before he gives out life advice.

I really like Jordan Peterson. But I really like Critical Thinking and Intellectual Honesty more. This was really refreshing to hear; a critique of JP that was mature and Intellectual. Thank you!

@professormutant3252

2 жыл бұрын

same here. JP can be good to listen to for some things, but it's obvious that he sometimes says some... questionable things.

@skylahenry8552

Жыл бұрын

​@@professormutant3252 oh heck no. he is an absolute clown.

@totalbrainfail1812

Жыл бұрын

I'm guessing you're more of a fan of his rabid transphobia?

JP’s reasoning assumes that if I “meditate” enough (having, say, smoked weed whose effect on some people is akin to that of these psychedelics) and think I see some startling white light or the sky falling, scream a bit, shake, roll on the ground, get up and say “Viola! I met Albus Dumbledore” I’ll have proved Dumbledore’s supernatural existence. 🤔 Wow.

@Baes_Theorem

3 жыл бұрын

To Steelman JP, I imagine he would say that you aren’t necessarily proving Dumbledore, but that there is some deeper layer whose levers you have managed to pull on. Where he loses me is equivocating that with the Supernatural.

That cut of the Christian rap is absolutely perfect

@jumpydashgd4699

2 жыл бұрын

indeed

I literally smoked for 5 years straight and quit cold turkey, without any gums, patches, drugs. Haven't smoked in 4 years now and have no desire to lol

@jordobello

3 жыл бұрын

What age did you start.

@rileygonzales6300

3 жыл бұрын

That’s pretty hardcore man. Cold turkey can be no joke depending on the level of dependence. I see it’s been a year after you commented are you still clean ?

@definitelynotcrazyrei3890

2 жыл бұрын

Must be God

@luk4aaaa

2 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah man! Good on ya

@jasonfarrell00

2 жыл бұрын

Yooo big proud of ya mate

I literally quit smoking just because I decided I didn't want to smoke anymore I guess I'm incredibly supernatural

My dad quit chewing tobacco when I was in elementary. He didn't use psychedelics or mystical experiences, he used lifesavers gummies.

We need more such videos on Peterson. He really needs some good logical criticisms to bring him back to earth.

@linusverclyte4988

5 жыл бұрын

I'm afraid his ego has already left this planet's atmosphere.

@MikkoVille

5 жыл бұрын

@@linusverclyte4988 Now we just need the rest of him to follow.

@Vilendank

5 жыл бұрын

aditya thakur no, we need to stop people from caring about him as anything more than a stepping stone to the better, wiser thinkers he vandalizes.

@HappinessOrDeath

4 жыл бұрын

JP needs a high school class in philosophy and logic.

@HarryNicNicholas

4 жыл бұрын

if only that were true, peterson self styles, he's actually just trying to sell books but lacks the marketing skills and likes condemning people to hell.

Jordan Peterson overshoots . This was essentially an argument from ignorance fallacy. Instead of saying psilocybin induces self-reflection , a change in brain chemistry, completely within the parameters of methodological naturalism, he calls it supernatural because he doesn’t know the mechanics.

@asuka_the_void_witch

5 жыл бұрын

but also because he firmly believs in gods and ghosts.

@skair5425

5 жыл бұрын

Isn't that the same reasoning that leads people to believe in God in the first place? When you don't understand something, you blame it on a supernatural power.

@xxMrBaldyxx

5 жыл бұрын

@@skair5425 I think religious indoctrination is the main reason why people believe in Gods.

@scotthogan8483

5 жыл бұрын

Peterson is a clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology. I'm pretty sure he knows the physiological and psychological effects of psilocybin on the brain. This is pure deflection on Peterson's part to push the narrative toward supporting his case. If one should call it "intellectual dishonesty", I could not disagree with that, being a much more serious charge than simple ignorance.

@xxMrBaldyxx

5 жыл бұрын

Peterson is a professor of psychology but he has never studied molecular biology or neurology - these are two fields of science he knows very little about. So rather than using evidence from these sciences to explain the phenomena, he instead resorts to an argument from ignorance and says 'it must be supernatural'.

I personally know three lifelong smokers (40+yrs) who quit cold turkey. And for them it was quite simple. Fear of cancer and a diminished quality of health. No mystical, spiritual mumbo jumbo required, just pragmatic reality. And of course discipline, determination & persistence.

Sorry I stopped smoking 19 years ago. I didn't know I couldn't do it without supernatural help. Did I break a rule? :3

@bensteinundknochen9404

4 жыл бұрын

Same here, I quit cold turkey almost 5 years ago. Peterson is full of shit.

@darkwolf4434

3 жыл бұрын

That's not Jordan's argument, he means that you can't change your willingness to smoke, I guess you didn't just stop smoking, at the start you resisted from smoking when you felt you wanted to, the drugs Jordan was talking about created behavioural change which has no natural explanation.

@hkmma6543

3 жыл бұрын

Dark Wolf443 there is a natural explanation though

@darkwolf4434

3 жыл бұрын

@@hkmma6543 No, we barely understand it at all.

@orochimaruginju6868

3 жыл бұрын

@@darkwolf4434 Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean "we" dont

I quit smoking after 13 years without using mushrooms, it can be done. Now I feel ripped off, I had an excuse to use mushrooms and didn't take it. LOL

@Birrrrra

5 жыл бұрын

Mark Caesar Hey, it's not too late

@Chronically_ChiII

5 жыл бұрын

One needs an excuse to take mushrooms? huh...

@stephaniecuellar3192

5 жыл бұрын

Nothing better than some 'reinforcement' therapy...

@coldcerberus9425

2 жыл бұрын

You're lucky

"Somewhat deceptive" is all Peterson really has to offer...

"Peterson is an accomplished guy...." Thanks for your generosity Drew. What Peterson is accomplished at his fooling himself into thinking he has profound and useful ideas, and hoodwinking large numbers of people into believing his claptrap.

@matthewhendricks4308

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It takes a lot of time and effort and helpers to be as successful at grifting as Jordan Peterson is, but what accomplishments does he bring to the world other than his gift for grifting?

@usermcskull4713

2 жыл бұрын

He's pretty accomplished when it comes to bullying transgender people for literally no reason

@KalebPeters99

2 жыл бұрын

He's a very studied theologist and quite a good psychologist. And like any human, he has blindspots and flaws. I personally think he should be quiet on topics he doesn't know (which are many. Climate for instance), but that doesn't discount the good work he's done in his area of expertise imo

@annafdd

2 жыл бұрын

Hear, hear.

@annafdd

2 жыл бұрын

@@KalebPeters99 I actually studied, and have a keen interest, in psychology. I have not heard of any brilliant insight or important work he’s done, but I am open to be convinced. One can be a good scientist and a piece of shit - psychology is full of people like that.

I love how Matt totally dismantles Jordan's moronic arguments. Can't stop smoking without supernatural WHUT!?

@aperfecttool257

4 жыл бұрын

Lol. Not to mention there are several drugs or ways that people can quit smoking. Also, my roommate my Sophomore year in college quit cold turkey. Peterson should go back to university.

@ploppysonofploppy6066

4 жыл бұрын

How Matt didn't burst out in laughter! Legend.

@mlgfrog2470

4 жыл бұрын

@@aperfecttool257 He was talking about quitting with drugs in specific, not quitting without drugs. Also before you judge JP maybe watch some of his videos, maybe try to realize the fact that he has helped tens of thousands of people with depression on the verge of suicide.

@aperfecttool257

4 жыл бұрын

@@mlgfrog2470 I have. JP is a moron. If he helped you, whatever. Doesn't change the basic fact that he plays more intelligent than he is. Not like he totally misrepresented C-16. Oh wait, he did.

@TurboNemesis

4 жыл бұрын

@@mlgfrog2470 he literally said you cant quit without some kind of drugs Which is absolutely untrue. I did it 8 years ago.

What the hell is Jordan talking about. I quit smoking without any help. It was just a matter of wanting it bad enough.

@dannyfitzgerald6523

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah but you secretly had supernatural help, if you say you didn't your lying. You can't disprove me because my personal logic is circular and I'm immovable on it.

@yourinternetfriend6778

5 жыл бұрын

You can. Lots of people can't. That's what makes smoking addictive.

@LemoUtan

5 жыл бұрын

I know it's against the law to say 'me too', but 'me too'. If anyone ever took this bloke seriously, these first few seconds of 'debate' should easily take care of that. Good grief.

@silversurfer6360

5 жыл бұрын

Jordan is really out of his mind about this stuff , he really cant undarstand that some people will is stronger than others ?

@yourinternetfriend6778

5 жыл бұрын

@silversurfer Considering the fact that Peterson is an experienced psychotherapist you can be sure he knows that.

Mushrooms = mythological experience = god. Wow what an amazing argument.

I really like the way you communicate your ideas and how well you articulate them, i don´t see myself as someone very smart in the sense that i don´t get things inmediately, but it is almost impossible to not get what you say with the way that you present things. Keep at it!!

Peterson lost me and anyone with a brain with that "you can't stop smoking without supernatural means" thing. It's just wrong

@mistym0rning

5 жыл бұрын

He lost me long before that, but I'm glad as long as people are finally waking up to some of the idiotic bullshit that he espouses.

@yordlop

4 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see him claim that taking Chantix induces a supernatural experience

@SovereignStatesman

4 жыл бұрын

I stopped smoking when I turned 12. Easy.

@JohnnyZenith

3 жыл бұрын

It's not just wrong, it's embarrassingly absurd.

@rayaqin

3 жыл бұрын

I think what he meant by that was that there is no other reliable method that has proven to be as effective as what the subjects perceived as mystical introspective experience, and he explained it later in the conversation.

Thank you. I’m just happy someone sees Peterson as I do and is speaking out about it. Too many people seem to buy into his BS because he sounds smart and is talking over their heads. You are doing good work, trying to be objective, while also revealing the truth.

I quit smoking without taking drugs. I smoked 2 packs a day for over 10 years. No magic mushrooms.

If it's a true spiritual experience, why do you have to take psychedelic drugs to experience it? God is like "I can totally make you quit smoking, but not unless you have some shrooms first"

@MrDemby1

2 жыл бұрын

a lot of cultures use these drugs, typically in the form of shamans. i dont think peterson is arguing his point well but psychedelics being a door to the spiritual world has been a concept for years

@nhr_etc

2 жыл бұрын

@ayy lmao yeah this is my understanding as well. most of the psychedelic experiences i'd describe as "mystical" or "spiritual" have involved deep reflection at the "border" of the subconscious mind, so to speak. deeply ingrained or automatic patterns of thought and behaviour momentarily rise to a conscious level, able to be examined and re-integrated. it's an experience that can induce a deep immersion into one's own internal mental architecture, and that includes the internal model of external reality. probably explains why the insights can be easily confused for some kind of "absolute truth" about the universe, when they're really just insights into our own perceptions and constructs.

It's magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.

"my rhymes are flying my beat is sick" -Romans 12:4

There is a sense of mysticism associated when taking psychedelics when in the right setting and mental state, however it's most likely just self engineered by our brains. These experiences can cause what some people call miracles, but in reality its just the power of ones own mind to heal itself. In the right setting (e.g under supervision of a psychiatrist) it has been proven that LSD can cure anxiety and depression through nothing but the power of the brain. Even with simple meditation I've seen one of my friends get rid of his OCD and dependency to ritalin to treat his ADHD.

@lockey4262

2 жыл бұрын

@Spooky Ghost How

@Envy_May

Жыл бұрын

@Spooky Ghost occam's razor is a logical principle

Dude that edit at the beginning, CLASSIC

Jordan: "....kind of like evidence..." hahahahahhaha aaaaaand, the desperate straw-grasping of apologists keeps on begging.

@pansepot1490

5 жыл бұрын

Roger Foster, I don't understand why you are laughing. Kind of Like Evidence is the pineapple of scientific accuracy, not even quantum mechanics can aspire to be that good.

@ReleaseMyKrakken

5 жыл бұрын

@@pansepot1490 it's kind of like evidence... For something Supernatural?

Funny, I didn't quit smoking until I became an atheist. Whodda thunk it, I must've had some mystical experience without even knowing it. Praise Peterson, hallowed be thy name.

@barbaralindhjem1582

3 жыл бұрын

You mean hollowed be thy name

Thay was the best opening of a video yet. Thanks bud for the best content on KZread bud.

The intro was brilliant😂😂💀 Thank you for this great video tho

"That's kinda like evidence.... Ya know." And a butter knife is kinda like a weapon... Ya know

@blackholesun9068

4 жыл бұрын

A butter knife in the right hands is as dangerous as a handgun!

"You don't want to sell me death-sticks. You want to go home and take Psilocybin for deep reflection of your life." - Jordan-wan Petersan

I still love Jordan but this is actually insane. He's usually very logical but I think his religious bias got the best of him here. He's still a super smart dude, but this is why appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Just because someone is credible doesn't mean they're always going to be right about everything.

@LMak1989

2 жыл бұрын

Even when I don’t agree with him he usually comes across as sincere on his views.. this was something else, terribly embarrassing

@bloodwynn

2 жыл бұрын

Religion turns off brain functions even for the most intelligent people.

@alrenobenjamin6566

2 жыл бұрын

I agree I still love his points as he's one of the only alt-conservative type person I can listen to but seriously?...taking drugs to get closer to god?/....?

@mydogsbutler

2 жыл бұрын

"still love Jordan but this is actually insane. He's usually very logical but I think his religious bias got the best of him here" Jordan is consumed by mysticism. Even when he's not talking about religion he's looking for ways to massage the facts to push his brand of mystism. Once you get that about Jordan's reasoning process you can see why he selects the experts he does (Jung being one of his favourites... also mystic like Jordan), why he parrots Christian right views on so many issues (but not to the point of making a complete fool of himself by arguing against evolution), why he hates the left (which he associates with atheism), why he ridiculously frames western civilization (of Greco-Roman roots) as based on "Judeo-Christian values" (thus if you don't support Christianity you are anticivilization anti-freedom) And so on. "He's still a super smart dude" You are right. Just because someone has accepted some bonkers belief doesn't mean they are dummies in other respects. Nazi ideology was cruel but this doesn't mean they didn't demonstrate genius in other respects. Most of the advanced weapons during WW2 was Nazi. This is how the managed to wage a multi year war against allied opponents that had far more raw resources and vastly outnumbered them. In Jordan's case, he's made a giant mistake of accepting the premise there exists a Christian god named "God" (as opposed to a god named Shiva, Mithra or Bob).. but this doesn't dismiss he has a PhD in psychiatry, has published several success books, and is such a quick witted orator he commands a following of millions that adore him. All this indicate he is very intelligent. Unfortunately he wastes his talent by trying to "prove" his initial flawed premise which leads him to make many more dubious claims.

@cl5470

2 жыл бұрын

He's not logical, he is pedantic. There is a difference.

I am a person who loves the supernatural and such things, but I also have very intense depression and anxiety. I've been on medication my whole life. I know the feeling of a total life change just due to the chemical reaction in my brain. I got hit the hardest in my early 20s, dropped out of school, broke up a relationship that was leading to marriage, got addicted to a lot of things. I'll get back on track then a medicine im taking wont work and I'll go downhill all over again. I've felt things that were like "God" or had experiences I thought were "outside myself" but when I finally got to a point where I was able to think clearly I realized all of those experiences could be linked to not just my mental health but the environment around me changing how my brain is working as well. I want to believe there is something greater out there, but the only thing I can prove is the chemical reactions in my brain and there is no proof that anything I feel is more than what my brain is telling me I feel.

"When I use a word," Jordan B Peterson said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

@BlacksmithTWD

2 жыл бұрын

As do most people who don't intend to deceive. All the more reason to ask questions to narrow down what is meant rather than to judge a person on basis of a strawman of their position. Yet strangely enough nobody talking to Peterson these days seem to be capable of applying the Socratic method and rather sticks with what quite likely is merely a strawman of his position.

@absolutenothing7094

2 жыл бұрын

I-is......is there something wrong with words having different meanings in different context?? lol

@Capybarrrraaaa

2 жыл бұрын

Basically; "I talk for myself, not to get an idea across to you". It's a conveniant little "Oh, that's not what I meant" when he's caught out with offensive ideas.

@absolutenothing7094

2 жыл бұрын

@@Capybarrrraaaa blamed for being offensive*

@absolutenothing7094

2 жыл бұрын

@@Capybarrrraaaa also, if you fail to grasp another person's idea, maybe it's your fault, and if it's not maybe you should stop blaming the other person for not conforming to your perception of the words(in other words your own failure) p.s. subjective perception of the word*

I used to be a JP fan, but now i just get frustrated every time he opens his mouth (sorry for my grammar, english is not my native language)

@ZenBearV13

5 жыл бұрын

Glad you've seen the light

@yoda1919

5 жыл бұрын

ZenBear thanks to atheism is unstoppable, gms, rationality rules and Venaloid

@yoda1919

5 жыл бұрын

John Toas thanks

@DiStUrBeDHuSk3r

5 жыл бұрын

I'm still a fan of his views when it comes to free speech/compelled speech. But that's about it. You're never going to agree with everyone's views if you think for yourself. You just agree with what you do, and speak out against what you don't. Or just toss it aside.

@sanders555

5 жыл бұрын

Jordan Peterson does have really thoughtful and provocative insights on some topics. But yes, you definitely have to sort through some bullshit so it's understandable why he's such a divisive character.

The issue isn't the existence of the supernatural, as abstract/meta concepts can easily be argued to require abstract/meta dimensions to exist, but the lack of any evidence that the supernatural governs or even impacts our natural existence is the only point that matters. In fact, evidence suggest the relationship is the other way around. In other words, the supernatural *cannot* exist without the natural, and the natural *can* exist without the supernatural.

I have smoked for 3 years, got to the doctor, he said I had to quit or I would have a really really short life, I quit smoking that day with out drugs or any help, just will power and a realtor hard time. Now I haven't smoked in 5 years and I don't think of stopping

Whenever Kermit says, “There’s a whole literature on that”, or” there’s lots of evidence on that” I’m very certain that I need to follow up on his claims. Throwing in lines like that in a busy interview in the popular press he knows it won’t be verified there and then so he can win cheap debating points or rather employ facile debating tactics.

@mism847

3 жыл бұрын

KERMIT. LOL!

@drewcarell7086

3 жыл бұрын

My favorite is when he throws out what is clearly a personal opinion or theory and follows it up with “those are the facts.”

@keesdenheijer7283

2 жыл бұрын

@@mism847 Have you seen the "clean up your room" -vid with Kermit?

@neurofiedyamato8763

2 жыл бұрын

It is why I kind of hate live debate. It only benefit the side who is more witty and have a library for a brain. If someone who memorized a bunch of studies and quick on their feet, they can misconstrue science to back up their claims all day. Even a highly qualified expert scientist can't counter that because they don't remember every tiny detail in all those studies. They need to research and dig in to the details to find a counter argument. Drew's arguments were perfect counters but none of them could have been brought up at that moment without having some insane memory and wealth of knowledge to draw upon. People like JP takes advantage of this knowing it can't be fact checked on the spot.

@Alan_Duval

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's like the Gish Gallop crossed with Occam's Broom.

My crew is big and it keeps gettin' bigga That's 'cause Jesus Christ is the metaphysical substrate of our culture I laughed way too hard at that. Instant like

@andrewforte2018

5 жыл бұрын

The entire video was great as well. Well done!

Love your intros so much! 🤣

Commenting at 4:16 I agree with what you're saying in regards to sample size and what not, but there are many other studies showing how effective mushrooms are. Also, to have a fair comparison for that study you could compare it to a study where the only other psychotherapies were used and see how well that worked. Clearly mushrooms have a significant effect.

In before the "You don't understand his subtle metaphor!" comments

@cosmicgamer613

5 жыл бұрын

I'm surprised this video doesn't have a lot of down votes. Usually when I see a video criticizing Jordan Peterson's ideas there's mostly down votes.

@pauligrossinoz

5 жыл бұрын

anime Walsh - credit to Peterson for lasting longer than fidget spinners did in the hearts of 10-year-olds. Adults with very low intelligence are so easily impressed with new things. And I guarantee that there will be yet another fuckwit to replace Peterson now that his fame is burning out. There are still idiots born every minute, after all!

@cosmicgamer613

5 жыл бұрын

I think the moment he became this big was when he refused to call some one by there preferred pronoun or something I can't remember.

@Jotakumon

5 жыл бұрын

anime Walsh It's slowly fading. He won't be gone soon, but his fame will decrease and someone else will take his place, and people will do the same mistake of blindly believing someon based on few things they like about that person. Such as Jordan Peterson's anti-SJW stance (which, even if I agree with him on several points on that front, was basically originated from a lie and exaggeration).

@cosmicgamer613

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree with him on his anti-SJW stance as well to a certain extent, but to me the whole anti-SJW thing is becoming stale if you ask me not that I agree with SJW's thought.

This was the moment I realized Peterson is a total charlatan.

@HappinessOrDeath

4 жыл бұрын

Im almost connvinced he believes what he says. So charlatan may be giving him too much credit

@alanmacification

4 жыл бұрын

I realized he was a fraud after 30 seconds of the first lecture I watched. Right off the bat, he had dropped into his shtick of word salad and postmodern gibberish. Whenever he faces a professional like Matt Dillahunty or Sam Harris, he just sounds ridiculous. Like all charlatans, his goal is not to convince skeptics, but to eliminate them so he doesn't waste time on them so he can concentrate on fleecing the more gullible . It's a variation of the " Nigerian General " scam.

@stefanc4520

4 жыл бұрын

He's not, hes just not a scientist

@wunnell

4 жыл бұрын

@@stefanc4520 , you don't have to be a scientist to understand science much better than Peterson demonstrates here. He's educated enough to have that understanding, especially if he's going to use scientific evidence to support his claims. At best, he arrogantly assumes that his expertise in certain areas means that he's an expert in any area he chooses to engage to support his beliefs and claims. At worst, he knows that he's wrong but arrogantly (although correctly) assumes that his fans will assume that his expertise in certain areas means that he's an expert in any area he chooses to engage to support his beliefs and claims. Either he doesn't know how blatantly wrong he is, which is nigh on inexcusable for someone in his position, or he knows but doesn't care because he knows that fans will eat it up anyway and the unsceptical won't check.

@M1ST9094

4 жыл бұрын

Charlatan on philosophy & religion agreed but I wouldn't say so in psychology, I don't get why JP is so religious & dogmatic in that sense but I do really enjoy his psychology lectures.

As an ex-smoker who stopped 12 years ago I can assure Peterson that you can stop smoking without any need for psychodelics and whilst I wouldn't recommend it contract pneumonia and being hospitalised for a month leading having to go cold turkey for all that time works really well help smoking cessation. What I can assure Peterson of is the most important thing for continued cessation is the desire not to smoke. It's possible that chemically induced self examination might help this is by no means a neccessity.

Can somebody send me the name of the song at the beginning?

I'm not saying JBP is a liar, but in this conversation he outright fabricated his claims and misrepresented his evidence. It's not definitive, but 2:29

@Daneelro

5 жыл бұрын

GMS doesn't want to go there, but purposeful misrepresentation is universal to alll of JP's public argumentations. He misrepresented research on lobsters (actually, crayfish), the Pareto Principle (when mis-applying it to sexual relations), Canada's C16 law, Jungian archetypes, archaic images of mating snakes (well on this one he probably just couldn't figure out the obvious and thought of DNA instead), atheism, Marxism, post-modernism and many more.

@jamesw7098

5 жыл бұрын

It's ok though since JP can just say "no I didn't say I believe that, I said___" like he did with the mating snakes misrepresentation and his credulous fanboys eat it up.

@Be_Gee

5 жыл бұрын

"outright fabricated his claims" that's what we call lying.

@DragonCharlz

5 жыл бұрын

Remember that Canadian transgender bill? Feel free to call him a liar forever on that one. Its one of the main things that made him famous.

@shrinkshooter

5 жыл бұрын

What was this thing about lobsters?

I’ve done shrooms and acid and I still am an atheist. I didn’t feel any got, but I did feel a sort of ego-dissolution. It feels as though you’re connected with everybody else, or at least it did to me. If other people, specifically people with religious backgrounds, felt a similar experience, they could’ve easily mistook it for God.

@domoroboto8752

5 жыл бұрын

Benjamin Vroman same here my good sir. i can understand how one would categorize is as “religious” or “spiritual” but they’re just attempting to explain some drug-induced experience that is difficult to grasp

@simongiles9749

5 жыл бұрын

Benjamin Vroman I find it telling that all sensations put down to religious experience can be pharmaceutically induced. Sense of deep bliss and calm - opioids. Sense of love and connection with others - MDMA. Sense of expanded consciousness and mysterious visions - hallucinogens.

@chrissonofpear3657

5 жыл бұрын

I am interested in the 'connected to everyone else' aspect at least. But I have never inhaled...

@theawecabinet

5 жыл бұрын

"...I am interested in the 'connected to everyone else' aspect at least. .." Here's a good account of it, from a different perspective... kzread.info/dash/bejne/h62tzLdxlt2ribg.html

@benjaminvroman5553

5 жыл бұрын

theawecabinet ooh cool I’m gonna watch that ted talk now

Could you please cite the clips shown in the video? I’d like to see the source videos

I felt the same way when i watched the debate. And I have a Ph.D in psychopharmacology. Good catch!