They’re absolutely brilliant, I had a 2004 3.0 for years, selling it five years ago at 146,000 miles, the only failure was the suspension compressor (£300 and two hours to fit). It’s still going well with its new owner. I then bought a 2008 (X358) XJR which is now on 156,000 miles, only fault has been failed catalytic converters, replaced with aftermarket 200 cell ones at about £70 each. Oh, the 155 mph speed limiter is a figment of somebody’s imagination; it passes 170 mph in fourth gear, with two more to go. Stonking.

I've had my 2008 X358 3.0 V6 since April and it's wonderful. Re-imported from Japan with only 54K on the clock. Just back from a waft to London and back (220 miles each way) and it returned 37 mpg. All for the price of a secondhand Ford Focus.

@kamilomar9134

11 ай бұрын

Hello, serious question - how do the insurance companies view Japanese Imports 'Grey Imports' as they are known?.

@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne

4 ай бұрын

Blimey, he's giving a lot of consideration to his answer....pmsl. Shame because it is a question I was going to ask too as you see lots of JDM Jags up for sale.@@kamilomar9134

I daily drive a 2007 X350 2.7 tdvi. Bought it with 274800km in a pretty tidy condition. One lady owner from new that used it to do long France/Germany trips. The interior is mint, incredibly well put together. Not a rattle or squeak from anywhere. It does have a slightly dropping headliner in all four corners but so slight that I’m not worrying about it yet. As the car was so mint generally I had the front/rear bumpers resprayed + driver’s door + replaced 2 cracked side reflectors + 1 rear chrome bumper strip. The car works 99% flawlessly and with the acoustic glass is carpet ride smooth and whisper quiet. Very rarely on starting the car I get either a ‘gearbox’ or ‘air suspension’ warning, but simply turning the car off and on again ‘fixes’ it, so either a false positive or some software issue that a restart resets. I also did a full oil and filter change including the gearbox, headlights repolished, new wipers. The car has a full Jag service history plus already had a new alternator, water pump and hoses changed. Next up will be suspension bushings (noted by my local specialist as starting to be a concern) and new disks all round. Previous to the Jag I owned BMWs for over 20 years (7 series mostly). They all had issues above and beyond anything the Jag has, including a totally annihilated head lining and mechanism on a GT 535xd panoramic sunroof (uber expensive to fix!). The BMWs were great drives but the Jag gets smiles and nods of approval from everyone from 8 to 80 years old. Everyone loves a proper Jaaaaag!!

@TheMoneymoneymoney13

Жыл бұрын

How much mpg are you getting? I'm thinking of dailying one but not sure whether to go for the 3l v6 petrol or diesel?

After my X350 was written off in the middle of a multi-vehicle pileup on the M5 I looked for a replacement. I didn't want the Seat-on-Steroids look of the new XJ, and Jaguar dealers were not selling official second hand X350/X358s. So I looked around, and came across one that was gorgeous from the front and inside, but he boot lid was a disaster area. Electrolytic corrosion between steel rivets and aluminium boot lid had goosepimpled the surface. I eventually found an X358 V8 4.2 LWB at a Jag dealer, and have had it for the last 12 years. There have been no major problems until now: the bonnet catch switch is dicky, and the sound system has packed up.

Was shown around the Jaguar factory outside Coventry on a college course trip. Very impressive production lines but the most impressive I thought was the wood workshop, all done as a hundred years ago, really interesting. True old fashion craftsmen.

Last XJ in my opinion. Can't beat those low lines, classic 👌

Great video. I’m a Benz guy who just picked up a high mileage 2006 4.2 xj8L. Thought I would flip the car and now I’m in love. It fell in line with exactly all you talked about. I just had to do a little cooling work with back flush and than oil change and she’s been great. Now just the headliner and she will be almost perfect.

I bought a 2009 X358 with the naturally aspirated 4.2L almost 2 years ago. It's now got 114,000 miles on it. Since I've had it, I've replaced pads and rotors on all 4 wheels, and replaced worn upper control arms and tie rod ends on the front. The tie rod ends were making a groaning noise every time I turned the steering wheel, and when I got in there, I noticed the ball joint boots on the upper control arms were shot, so I did it all at one time. At some point, a previous owner had replaced the air suspension with coil overs. I have no experience with how it originally drove, but the ride is still great, and for as big as the car is, it still handles amazingly well. I downsized from the stock 20" wheels to 18's, and that had a noticeable improvement on ride quality. The perforated leather on the driver's seat is starting to show some wear, and the headliner is sagging, as well as a few minor bugs to work out, but overall it's a great car, and I plan on putting well over another 100,000 miles on it. I've thought about finding a complete used engine and transmission to squirrel away in my garage in case it ever needs anything major repaired on it. I kinda want to keep this car a very long time.

@schonique

Жыл бұрын

I replaced the Air Suspension with the Coil Conversion on all 4 wheels…Trust me it’s a big difference. I’ll switch back over to the Air-Spensions once I give the vehicle to my Daughter. The comfort, Air hands down, Coil gives a rougher ride.

@Titanic19127

Ай бұрын

Do these ones still have the timing chain tensioner issues?

These are great reliable cars with high end comfort. I drive my super v8 X350 second hand since 11 years. The car just passed 300.000 km and had just a few minor issues. The engine runs like new. Biggest issue is the headliner which is expensive to replace ( the sunroof does not help here either). But that is not a unique Jaguar problem. My Saab had the same issue and I am sure many other cars as well. My next car will be a Jag again. Maybe now a XK with that same great V8 engine!

I love my 2005 XJ8 Sport to bits. New tires and service when I first got it in Feb, and hasnt put a foot wrong in 4k miles. Currently showing 137k, and still drives like new. Highly recommended as a daily driver.

I have a 3.0 V6 X350. Pacific Blue. I think they are superb. They always turn heads, very comfortable, and ok on fuel. They only things I’ve replaced on mine was a radiator, and a new battery. They are excellent value for money. Would definitely buy another one.

Thank you for this guide. Very useful and encouraging. It's a great combination of Trad and Tech.

Great video. Very informative which isn’t always the case with other channels

Air suspension aside, suspension work is expensive, especially the XJR. Excellent car, comfortable, quiet, and the XJR is VERY quick !

Against recommendation, I'd definitely go for a coil spring conversion, and also a full polybush kit if the air shocks were on the way out. My teeth fillings are all secure and, to be frank, the inferior ride quality would be trumped by peace of mind. Not bone hard cheapo shocks though, but quality ones with helper springs and adjustability, as per fitted to my infinitely more modest Peugeot. Have an engine kit also RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, until about 2,000 RPM, dash shaking, time standing still etc.

Had my 04 xj vp for 7 years , still in love , no matter what bargain issues it had

I would also suggest replacing the thermostat every 3 to 4 years as the wax component tends to get stuck open, causing the engine to over heat. I also had the head gasket replaced on my Super V8 after 170,000 miles. They are brilliant cars !

They are lovely things,my wife would love one.I however love cars that run on the cheaps as chips mentality.....

@h7pubg

Жыл бұрын

these really aren’t that expensive to run, the 4.2 is bulletproof if you just do preventative coolant components, and the suspension can be converted to springs over air for well under 1k and the ride quality is still great

I might buy one one day. I'm currently daily driving my 1991 Sovereign XJ40 for the summer and it has been great!

I owned a V6 model with the walnu finish. &nd had it for nearly five years. It had over 160k on the clock when I part exchanged it for aXJ351 Portfolio. I really liked the 350 mode, but this time opted for very low mileage example = certainly it cost me a hell of a lot more, but it has certainly been worth it _ I keep the car fully & professionally maintained, though I miss the wood steering wheel, so far it has cost me no more than a couple of minor wear and teat items, it has been well worth the extra. I am happy to say that it is a car that you don’t get worn out driving 4 hours straight.

And the very nice Birds Eye Maple dash which I have. ABS sensors don't like wet mornings. Drive 2 minutes, switch off, restart.

Can you do a guide on the X308 as well? I definitely prefer the looks of the X308!

i had a 2007 tdvi sovereign great car only issues were electronic psrk brake not releasing and cracked exhaust joints to the dpf

Good video. It touched on every issue I’ve got with mine lol

I ran two of these, one after the other, a 2003 Sport, then a 2007 Sovereign, both with the 3 litre V6. Despite the lower mileage of the 2003, (31k on purchase), it was a lot more troublesome than the later car, reflecting the car coming on sale late, and thus much testing not done. I think Jaguar's attitude was "let the customers be the testers" ! Basically this review is correct, but the bubbling under the paint is not the paint, but filiform corrosion of the aluminium, where water and salt get in, and the corrosion then creeps under the paint. The corrosion product is aluminium hydroxide which is bulkier than the metal, hence the bubbling. Eventually, I found that it was quite easy to fix using stuff from Halfords, but obviously time consuming, and also with no garage that fitted the car, one needs nice summer days to do the work. For me, the suspension and its constant need for bushes front and rear at rather too short mileage intervals caused me to move to an almost new XE. I also had to have an air compressor, but the rest of the air suspension on both cars gave little trouble. For impecunious owners a conversion to steel coils would be sensible.

I would love for you to do a similar video of jaguars last version of jaguars XJ12. It was quite similar to the x300 xj6 but had its own group of common problems. Could you possibly do a video pointing out some of these issues?

They are gorgeous cars. Maybe some sunny days I will acquire one.

Bought a 2006 4.2 v8 sovereign in 2019, the only problems, the usual after certain amount of years, bushes, brakes, 02 sensors and finally a air compressor 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂, worth it!!!!!

Best daily jag ever bargain

@petescarport

Жыл бұрын

I have to agree. Outside my ls430 Lexus this is top of the class and gets better gas mileage with almost similar quality and ride. Light years better than a w220 Benz.

@sidmoorful

Жыл бұрын

Great cars .Also check corrosion to brake pipes. Not expensive to buy but fitting awkward. R is very quick for an old car.

Plenty of low mileage X350s & X358s coming back to the UK ex Japan courtesy of the over 10 year rule which makes it very easy to reimport. Unfortunately, its an over 25 year rule here in Australia so won't be seeing them any time soon.

I will have one of these cars some day. Beautiful.

@ClassicsWorldUK

Жыл бұрын

Why not buy ours, Chris?

I had a 2004 had problems with the air suspension sensor

A coil conversion still maintains the high quality handling. You will notice a slight difference only if racing around Brands Hatch on a track day. Bin the air suspension when it goes wrong.

I had a 2.7D and it was a fantastic car but one of the injectors packed up which was a pricey job to repair, it got written off whilst parked and I had an XF after that which was nowhere near as comfortable to drive.

Thanks for this vid!, very helpful! I think if I were to change my car, it would be for one of these. Has to be the 4.2V8 :) Tbh, apart from the air suspension, it's not too scary a prospect!

@ClassicsWorldUK

Жыл бұрын

Glad it helped, let us know if you take the plunge!

@JJonCars

Жыл бұрын

@@ClassicsWorldUK definitely will do!

I have the X358 (much better looking in my opinion) diesel, changed cambelt and water pump and had it remapped. The remap produced 260bhp and 400 lb ft torque giving much improved performance. I never use it for short runs and it has given no problems, nothing to be scared of with the diesel and half the road tax of the petrols. Small areas of paint bubbling at the bottom of the doors which I have touched in so not noticeable, will get them resprayed if any further deterioration. Great cars for a small outlay of coin.

@ivanfernyhough3851

Жыл бұрын

Have to disagree,the 350 bumpers with chrome blades looked far better than the big bulbous ones put on the 358.i do however like the chrome touches to the seat switches on the 358.its still a much nicer car than the ones that came after it tho.

@Me-oo4yu

Жыл бұрын

@@ivanfernyhough3851 agreed sir 👍

@havvacuppa

Жыл бұрын

Literally about to buy a diesel in a couple of days and this is the first I've heard about the "short journeys" issue...which is what I'll be doing mostly. Is it really something to be worried about, and is there any way of mitigating it?

@garethhanna9173

Жыл бұрын

@@havvacuppa DPF will clog up, you'd be better off with the 3.0 petrol if you're doing mostly short journeys. If you're set on the diesel make sure you give it a run above 50mph for 20 minutes every few weeks to prevent this.

@havvacuppa

Жыл бұрын

@@garethhanna9173 Thanks, situation is I've been offered a diesel by a friend so I know it's been looked after and I'll get a good price, I wouldn't take the risk on a car of that age if I didn't know the history. No hardship to have to take it for a 20 minute pootle every so often, I'm sure I'm going to love driving it! But cheers for the advice, much appreciated!

I've got a 3.5 V8. Great car but shall be up for sale as not using it enough, and I need the garage space!

I have mixed feelings about my former 2003 3.5 V8. best car I ever drove but worst car I ever owned. Over 4 years it cost me almost £5k in repairs and maintenance. Air suspension compressor, bushes on rear suspension links (very common) but can now thankfully be pressed out rather than purchase the whole arm. The steering rack went at 50k and I subsequently found out that's also not uncommon. That cost me £1200 with Jaguar goodwill on the labour. I suspect they would rather people don't get to know about this problem. Air con failed twice in four years. Cruise control was suspect. On one occasion it wouldn't cancel on the button so I held it down for two seconds and it sent the car into limp home mode while doing 70 mph approaching a 180 degree motorway exit. No power steering or brakes. Damn near killed me. Again, thought I was unlucky until I read in the owners club magazine of other owners having the same potentially lethal failure. Also had paintwork issues. It's not just corrosion but galvanic corrosion. Jaguar attached the aluminium panels to steel chassis using zinc coated rivets. If the coating on the rivets is faulty it allows the aluminium body to sacrificially corrode. You can paint it all you like but you wont stop the problem. Padding on drivers seat bolster collapsed (must be from my gross 82kg) resulting in internal seat rail sticking in a**e. Had it repaired by an upholsterer. All this with a full Jaguar service history up until 40K miles which is when I bought it. Beautiful car but I would never have another. If you buy one research it well before you hand over the cash and get it serviced by John Marks in Nottingham. the best Independant in the country.

@ivanfernyhough3851

Жыл бұрын

You must have bin unlucky.have had 2,using my 18 year old super v8 as a daily and i love it.touch wood have never had any real issues with either.1st one went to 140000 before sold it my current one is on 90000 and works superbly and it aint half quick.not much can keep with it.

They should have undercoated it will the same yellow-green primer they use on aluminium alloy aircraft exterior. Won't oxidise spread then with a chip.

Friend had 2004 3.0 v6 sadly car had wiring loom issues at around 180k miles Drove above car which really enjoyed Also drove 2014 xf 3.0 v6 diesel twin turbo Was passenger In 2.7 tdi 2005

Thanks Alexander Armstrong

Brilliant video I own a XJ8 everything you say is spot on where can I get apple car play conversion at a reasonable price please

@Musicmedstudio

11 ай бұрын

Look up Jagdroid

I have an X308 XJR since new. Love it. I thought the 350 was somewhat uglier, but it is still a car I would have bought.

@andriussa5811

Жыл бұрын

Won't discuss the aestethics, but my X350 has an all aluminium body, completely rust free, a 6 speed ZF, 6 airbags, a touchscreen and a lot more space. Making it still a relatively modern car. And without a doubt it's a Jag, the very last one.

i had my 04 vdp for 3years no major isssues thank god

Currently sat in my 2006 4.2 X356, it’s been great car but definitely not cheap to own maybe an average of £700 a year on parts but it does currently have 141000 miles

I bought a 3.0l V6 sport in BRG with 200.000 miles for £1300 last May. Apart from a wheel upgrade to 19s and an o2 sensor its been a bonny car to own and drive. Everybody thinks Ive won the lottery and when I tell them what I paid there amazed. Yes if you look closely there are a few issues on the body but for the price of a eurobox......

@ClassicsWorldUK

Жыл бұрын

...you absolutely can't complain!

Hi, where did you get the CarPlay conversion done please?

@lMH0tep

Жыл бұрын

Check jagdroid, it has the carplay and all android functionality

@MarkDenholm

Жыл бұрын

@@lMH0tep Thanks. Did look at Jagdoid but I wanted a completely installed solution. The whole dismantling my whole dash and waiting for the unit to be sent, worked on and sent back just doesn't work for me. I'll probably stick with the external solution if that's the only internal solution but thanks for getting back to me.

Jags of this generation the interiors especially the leather are far superior to any of the German brands. The s type the x type xj all have hard wearing leather. My x type estate on 128k miles has cream leather. Drivers bolster is abit warn but the other seats are like new. I had a similar age bmw m5 on 23k miles and the bolsters were in same condition as the jag on 128k

Super massive money pit if you don't DIY. Nice vehicle though. Smoooooth. 😎

nice and simple for a luxury sedan, and light with it's aluminium chssis so less stress on mechanical parts and not stuffed with bleeding edge tech like the germans so less electrical parts to go wrong, but yes it's a jag so what little electrics it does have ate wired like a load of nonsense and will fail and yes there's air suspension to worry about and the diesel is no mercedes om606 in terms of reliability or, but in the current market it's a decent price to pay for an excellent 40mpg cruiser and proper jag experience

2004 xj8 supercharged 140000k asking price 6k is the a good deal

Mine is a v8 3.5 sport with 142000 miles, i've covered 40000 of those miles without a single fault go wrong, best car and best value i've ever owned, the jaguar specialist who maintains the car said they are stupidly cheap right now but not for much longer.in many opinion these are the last of a glorious line of jaguar xj cars that people recognise as a jaguar not the crap they have churned out since production of the x350 ended, the only reason you can tell your following any jaguar on the road now is because it says so on the boot, sad.

@michaelwilson9876

Жыл бұрын

So true. 2004 xj8 3.5l going strong at 319,000km in Australia. Most reliable car I've ever had and simply elegant.

I really want one but the wife thinks it would be a terrible family car and she hates the looks. Anyone used as a family car?

@ClassicsWorldUK

Жыл бұрын

Completely useable! Seats five people, huge boot, 30MPG+ with almost all engines, just look after it mechanically and you'll have the coolest car on the school run!

@pictlandpickers1171

Жыл бұрын

@@ClassicsWorldUK also living in Scotland where even the toughest of vehicle get eaten by the salty roads the thought of aluminium seems great.

“Parts availability is really good” 😂😂 Jaguar love to discontinue an item.

Maintain it right and you will have less problems but you will always have something to pay out with an older car

I ran one (4.2V8 Sovereign), for ten years. I forgave it loads of issues because I loved it but eventually I had to throw the towel in. When it was good it was fantastic, but it always had one problem or other on the go. If you like your car to be right and niggly faults spoil it for you then avoid these cars lovely as they are. Problems I experienced included: Headlight bulb failure cost £1000 because the front of the car has to be stripped out to change it. (before I go on you should know that almost every repair / fault fix costs about £1000 typically). Air suspension problems included replacement compressors, valve bodies and dampers, but without the air suspension the car loses 80% of its character. Bubbling paint everywhere, massive massive repair bill. Gearbox issues, the gearbox is known to be inherently weak, it will start to make screeching sounds when changing gears once it's done 40k and it's not designed to have its oil changed, so that's not a simple job (there goes another £1000+ every other year). Bonnet catches (it has two), seize and to get the bonnet open once that happens is a specialist job and it involves breaking in through the front grill... guess how much that's gonna cost. Power seat motors and cogs, oh my lord was that inexplicably expensive. Multi CD player going offline, the units are weak and constantly go wrong. Headlamp wash system works when it wants, not when it should and getting to the bottom of that is very time consuming and therefore expensive. Rough idling due to intermittent coil packs, so to sort that you need to change the lot. The early ones have the ‘nicosil’ problem, Google it as it’s too much to go into here, but do read about it as complete engine replacements were carried out routinely as the problem is far too expensive to repair, buy one that hasn’t been done is a massive mistake. The bottom line is that if you can live with a car that will always have multiple problems on the go then fair enough. Also don’t be fooled by what you hear, you need the 4.2V8 or 4.2V8 Supercharged otherwise it will not drive like the angry cat you’re hoping for and you’ll not experience the genuine Jaguar Grace, Pace and Space. Oh and before I go, I preferred the shorter wheelbase version but amazingly rear passengers get very little foot room, and the long wheelbase one looks like it needs a chauffeur. Also the boot is very shallow and therefore much smaller than you imagine, oh and did I mention it's thirsty... very very thirsty if you drive it like it begs you to.😁

@ClintWestmetal88

Жыл бұрын

Where on earth are you taking your cars? £1000 to get the gearbox oil changed? You're getting absolute shagged at that price. And what's this about screeching sounds after 40k miles? It's a 6 speed ZF which is used in pretty much everything so to say it's inherently weak would mean it's weak in all the other cars it's fitted to- not true.

@silversuit66

Жыл бұрын

@@ClintWestmetal88 we don’t all live in Solihull mate. Avoid these nightmares if you ain’t from the UK. Bled me dry

@ClintWestmetal88

Жыл бұрын

@@silversuit66 What's your point? £1000 to get the gearbox oil changeed is criminal.

@silversuit66

Жыл бұрын

@@ClintWestmetal88 yeah not sure there mate - was on the beers - 1000 for gearbox oil is crazy for sure.

@ClintWestmetal88

Жыл бұрын

@@silversuit66 haha fair play!

Worth noting that the petrol versions of the X350 generation onward are ULEZ compliant, where as diesel and the previous X308 are not. With emission zones springing up in towns across the UK and rest of Europe, this is not just a London issue.

@jonathanpotts2910

Жыл бұрын

My 3.2l x308 is ULEZ compliant

Ford V8 is super reliable if maintained well..

I had the baby v8, wrote it off, gutted, now it has to be the xjr

I bought an absolutely beautiful (at least visually!) back and chrome 2003 4.2V8 SE with 100K miles around 2 years ago. I’ve done: * knock sensors (coolant leak in the V) * burst air suspension front left * prolapsed fuel tank * remote locking failure * front door latch failure * parking sensor failure * leak in the boot, causing a burnt out amp Somehow, I’m still in love with it!

My family loves the jag...we owned 4 jags xxxxxx.

These Jags have the Best t Air-conditioning I've ever had in any car including my current modern Mercedes

@patricktomaszewski2063

Ай бұрын

AMERICAN FORD AC!

Air suspension is for other folk who are paying for it. We've all seen these things with the rear end fully jacked up when it's gone wrong. These cars are a liability with a less than rosy future - it's all about keeping them going for a sensible budget.

@ivanfernyhough3851

Жыл бұрын

Had 2 of these cars,never had a single suspension issue,never had any real issues infact.far superior to any of the german competition thats wrong actually,they dont come even close to competing with these.a good guide,never had any of these issues on either of mine tho,in a good10 or 12 years of owning them.

You don't need to remove the dash to replace the heater matrix

They are both... A inexpensive luxurious vehicle that has the potential to bankrupt the owner with endless repairs from minor niggles to catastrophic failures.

You really have to look hard to tell them from an X Type.

I believe that Jaguar Heritage still has brand new bodyshell in stock

1000 a corner for dampers?…

Interior door handles are garbage. Adaptive Cruise Control modules can’t be bought for love or money. Air Suspension. Oxy sensors. Has a fit when the battery drops. Club owners and forum members are tossers. Little support outside UK. No point getting one unless it’s an R or a Super. 358 is preferred.

@Me-oo4yu

Жыл бұрын

Lol you plum! You just got a bad one 🤣

@ClintWestmetal88

Жыл бұрын

@@Me-oo4yu Do people expect to get away with only basic servicing? 15-20 year old large saloons like this are all going to have their issues, whether it's Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Mercedes or Lexus.

@Me-oo4yu

Жыл бұрын

@@ClintWestmetal88 Agreed. A bit of common sense and knowing what you're buying will go a long way.

@mickeymouse1467

Жыл бұрын

Don’t forget “constant battery drain” fun.

@silversuit66

Жыл бұрын

@@Me-oo4yu At the end of the day if you are paying 100s of thousands of dollars for a top of the line 350 you would expect 3/4 of the door handles not to snap after 5 years. Seen so many chancers try and get cute with these things over the years. The average punter should avoid these.

If you can't buy a new Jaguar you never get the money for maintenance for a old one . I had a beautyful XJ 308 4.0 V8 , terible . Keep away !!!!

@ivanfernyhough3851

Жыл бұрын

Rubbish, theyre brilliant and not to expensive if you no a decent specialist and do a bit on it yourself.they are very reliable in general.

@jalting9162

Жыл бұрын

@@ivanfernyhough3851 correct , they are Rubbish . English old Shit .

@h7pubg

Жыл бұрын

lies

@philnorton9723

Жыл бұрын

Bullshit, Jaguars have the highest survival rate of all makes sold in Europe; over 90% at 13 years higher than Lexus, MB, BMW, as fo Audi, they barely manage 60%.

@silversuit66

Жыл бұрын

@@ivanfernyhough3851 don’t talk stupid. Bought a super of these from new. Bloody nightmare. Pretty - though will bleed you dry.