Listen to Jonathan Haidt's "The Happiness Hypothesis" here: audibletrial.com/gmskeptic Also, have any of you had the "atheists are miserable" trope thrown at you? How did that affect you, if at all?

@peyton713

2 жыл бұрын

It's protecting, if you ask me. Like unhappy parents telling child free couples they can't be happy without kids. Misery loves company.

@richiejohnson

2 жыл бұрын

08:35. I often hear "equivocate" misused for "equate" or being equal. You can't eqivocate two facts as being equal. Equivocate does not take an object.

@tragedyplustime8271

2 жыл бұрын

I find it funny that Theists consider God an "objective meaning", when they themselves say that God purposefully let man have free will to do whatever the hell he wants, and gives them no proof of His existence. As such, He never has been an objective meaning, as you have to fully focus of pure faith with lack of factual evidence. There is no objective meaning, life is based on the subjective meaning you give it yourself. Granted, these are the same people who believe that we get morality from God and ignore the concept of empathy, so of course they'd say dumb things like that.

@bensrandomshows1482

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Drew I was wondering if certain media (like Pokemon or Yugioh) was blocked off by your parents from you?

@brianprinty112

2 жыл бұрын

I like that you skipped the rehashed, first part of his article. Ty

Kinda scary how the only reason these guys are moral is because they're afraid of burning eternally.

@varunmohan3760

2 жыл бұрын

All stick no carrot

@yeshuachrist2300

2 жыл бұрын

But they'll tell you it's because they love God 😤

@DarthRane113

2 жыл бұрын

They try to deflect that by saying they wouldn't be immoral if they didn't believe in god. But people who don't believe in god have an excuse to be immoral. And then the rest would deviate from here.

@pranavflame

2 жыл бұрын

@@yeshuachrist2300 Stockholm Syndrome towards an imaginary interlocutor. LoL

@ghost_of_jah5210

2 жыл бұрын

Most people are moral because of conscience and cowardice

So his argument is "If God weren't real it would make me feel bad, therefore it can't be true". Wow that's compelling.

@Mr.Goodkat

2 жыл бұрын

That's not his argument at all, he never said it was or presented it as an argument for God, the people who watch this channel have probably already seen WLC and his debates so should know he often presents 5 arguments for God's existence none of which are the fallacious one you use above, you can suspect underneath it all that's his real motive for believing but you can't sit there and say he's presenting that as his reasoning for belief that is flat out dishonest.

@KL-lt8rc

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Goodkat His argument is this: - God is required for meaning in life - A lack of meaning in life is too depressing to be true - Therefore meaning in life exists - Therefore God exists

@Mr.Goodkat

2 жыл бұрын

@@KL-lt8rc Why wait around for someone to make a poor argument, when you can just make it for them? this'll save WLC the trouble of having to actually say it himself.

@KL-lt8rc

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Goodkat Literal quote from Craig: "About the only solution the atheist can offer is that we face the absurdity of life and live bravely" "The fundamental problem with this solution, however, is that it is impossible to live consistently and happily within such a world view" His criticism of the atheistic worldview is that it can't produce happiness. He is arguing that atheists (whose only defining feature is a lack of belief in the existence of god) are wrong because (according to himself) their worldview is unhappy. He's defending God's existence on the premise that doing so makes people happy, by virtue of providing meaning. You can keep saying I'm mischaracterizating the argument, but I'm not.

@Mr.Goodkat

2 жыл бұрын

@@KL-lt8rc Sounds like from the quote above you provided he is saying they have a fundamental problem because it's impossible for them to be happy, which would certainly be a problem for the individual if it was true but never once did he say that shows atheism is false, he never even implied that, I thought when I seen you had responded it be with him saying more what you are but that quote you provided doesn't support what you're saying.

I was Christian until around 15 years old, I was miserable, always paranoid I was doing something wrong or born bad. Ever since I stopped following that religion I have been happier, giving my life meaning and purpose.

@stirpiano

Жыл бұрын

goes to show how it's hugely a different-strokes-for-different-folks sorta thing, and that those criticizing atheism for making life "meaningless" haven't had enough conversations with us.

@SoldierOfGodwyn

Жыл бұрын

@@stirpiano I hear you. Our lives and their meanings are based on our perception, regardless of religion. I see a lot of people attacking atheism and basically implying all atheists are nihilists, but that is simply not the case.

@Saintpaul752

7 ай бұрын

Its usually what was your relationship with God really like

@ImieNazwiskoOK

5 ай бұрын

@Holyservant123 Ah the good ol' "you weren't actually a Christian"

@Saintpaul752

5 ай бұрын

my bad I changed my views people can a real Christian and not become one@@ImieNazwiskoOK

The funny thing is, when I was deeply Christian, I was consistently 𝘶𝘯𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘺. I was constantly terrified of doing wrong. Constantly ashamed of myself when I “sinned”. Constantly shunned by my family/Christian society. Since I stopped believing in that stuff-(I am agnostic), I have been much happier. And way more consistently happy. Purpose of us means so much more because we choose to give meaning to ourselves and others. Not because some high being decides it so. That’s so much more satisfying!

@angelo1267

2 жыл бұрын

This reply is not to say Christianity is true. Its to emphasize how a Christian should live. For example, I struggle with always doing wrong. I will always do wrong. It is inevitable. I feel ashamed. But then I remember what Jesus Christ did for me. He wiped away my past and future sins. I rejoice at this. The more I see sin in me, the more sorrowful I am. Which makes me look at Christ more and also be more happy. It’s an endless paradox

@cornopeanus

2 жыл бұрын

but what kind of meaning is that? what kind of meaning is a self-generated meaning? It seems like lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself that there is meaning but.....really there is no meaning. Suppose you find purpose in life by feeding the hungry. All day long, you pour out your best energies in feeding the hungry. Then, one day it's all over. You find out that your feeding the hungry may have given you temporary meaning and purpose but ultimately, it all comes to nothing. How hollow is that?

@a_randomuser4

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornopeanus self-generated meaning isn't something you choose, but rather something that gives you meaning, something that makes your life worth living, even if you're doing something good for others, like a man who can cure any disease with a simple touch, what if he doesn't want to be a doctor? what if he likes making music, or if he loves creating art, then that would be what gives his life meaning your "propose" in life is what gives you a reason to live in the small about of time you have, what makes your life worth living,

@d_camara

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornopeanus what's the alternative? god given purpose? you can't prove god even exists, let alone any source of meaning, it really seems like lying to yourself too, and it's for sure self-generated as well

@cornopeanus

2 жыл бұрын

@@d_camara If God doesn't exist, then you are surely right.....my meaning is also self-generated. One thing that you cannot do without God, however, is assess whether someone's meaning is good or evil. Hitler's life had meaning too, but I take it you aren't inspired by that sort of meaning.

"Can atheists do THIS?" *sicknasty kickflip*

@cookiemons9097

2 жыл бұрын

Atheism DeBuNkEd!!11! * Catholic priest with pixel meme glasses as thumbnail *

@cookiemons9097

2 жыл бұрын

@@zappz8858 I think he REALLY did the sicknasty

@walterforstman9022

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, he’s got us there boys. Checkmate

@psyberklown3434

2 жыл бұрын

Welp now I have to go to church.

@eattabagovdix7169

2 жыл бұрын

DouchebagSaysWhat????

That's as absurd as me saying "Christians cannot be both happy and consistent. If they are consistent, then they must necessarily always be terrified that God will cast them into hell for a sin which they did not know they have committed, and would have any recourse for since anything God does is just. Since living in a state of terror and happiness are mutually exclusive, Christians must set aside their faith for periods of time in order to feel happy, abandoning consistency."

@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. It’s easy to make up unfalsifiable claims like this on either side, and it gets us no closer to understanding the truth about the lived experience of atheists or Christians.

@davidumann6707

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I do feel pretty safe not believing in an all powerful being looking at me judgingly, when I'm doing private stuff. Sometimes I think "How can christians live like this?".But as we can see, they're doing just fine, so who am I to make claims about a mindset I don't understand.

@lawrencefleischer1414

2 жыл бұрын

Right, amazing how these jerks feel they know what other people think. Guess they don't realize how stupid they appear to efveryoneelse.

@TypingHazard

2 жыл бұрын

If this is the game - redefining terms to exclude your debate opponent - why does anyone engage with these individuals? I don't understand why a conversation is required when the endgame is always the same: "I already told you God is required to have these qualities, you don't believe in God, ergo you cannot have these qualities." People that legislate our societies think in these terms. Why are they granted the benefit of the doubt? Why even casually debate them? I don't get it.

@lawrencefleischer1414

2 жыл бұрын

@@TypingHazard Good points.

I can actually confirm this from personal experience. I was raised with no religion at all. Any of my interactions with it have only been as an outsider, but I have never had this crisis of hope/happiness that is talked about by apologists. The idea of needing a christian belief system to find that seems like putting the cart before the horse. As an outsider, religion, at least the socially traditional ones, seems like an attempt to explain things like "hope", "morality", and "creation", rather than a basis for these things. I have personally found better answers in my pursuit of science and philosophy, and accepting that I don't have answers to the questions I can't answer. It upsets me to learn that people might contemplate suicide after leaving their faith. Hang in there everyone! I've heard a saying once, I forget exactly how it goes, but the basic idea is that: "It's not about where we end up, but the journey taken to get there." I find fulfillment and happeniess in my growth as a person, and my personal search for truth. I don't know what happens when we die. That scares me sometimes, but giving up all that I have because I don't know what happens at the end does not seem worth it to me. I hope my contribution to this conversation is helpful.

@ChrisFryer78

2 жыл бұрын

Most people I've met in Australia are raised without religion (I'm one of them btw), and this so called crisis of happiness is a foreign concept to many of them. I'd say that the need for god to provide a moral foundation is also not something they think about. Morals are easy, "does it hurt someone who isn't me?"

@memememe609

2 жыл бұрын

People need a bigger purpose for some reason. They can't just enjoy life. Ironically, it makes their point of view much more depressing than ours

@nafisasalie6230

2 жыл бұрын

You don't believe God created evthing who created nothing. You will be cremated when you die. You will be burnt in a fierce heated fire. How do you know you don't feel anything. When we are buried we go back to soil. If you are burnt it is ashes it is not soil two different entities. I ask during my life OH you, who I am going to who I am going to return to have mercy on me. When you parents had sex and your mother felt life who blew that first life (mercy), in your mother's womb? When your mother gave birth to you who gave her the strength and the love to push you out of her body. Awaiting your response Tks

@canisterxx307

2 жыл бұрын

before I start you need to know one thing you can't disprove a non exitastant. Like if I say there is an invisible pony you can't disprove it. But you can still act as it isn't there because it affects nothing.like that god is a claim and he does nothing . First is a hypothesis you guys think god created the universe .we hypotheised it came from nothing. The problem with god creationism is that you are just moving it to god so then we need to know what god is. So just another question. And we don't have any significant evidence for a deistic god about much less the biblical god there are thousands of gods .what makes your special?? The thing we also can't disprove any other religion. We can't disprove the non existent.!!! Second statement you asked how we know you can't feel it. It is because the system that process pain is dead it is verified by scientic methods . so your just spouting unscientific claims without any evidence. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidences. And those claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Third claim about soil and ashes . I think you don't know what soil is . soil is the general term material that covers the surface so it includes both inorganic and organic.so again you don't know what you are talking about. Life in mothers womb . do read biology, the zygote formed dues to gametes from both parents became a embryo and then a human child by differentiation and cell division . it is not magic. We have enough proof that cells have the ability to differentiate and multiply . the only thing we are looking is how the first life originated . I think we will able to do it in the coming decades or centuries. We have already cloned animals. Though we did stop for ethical reasons. But it just means we can create life from life . now we just need to create life from its constituent particles.. The last statement would be the chemical oxytocin. It contracts the uterine walls and helps push the child out. I I hope you are able to read books and increase your knowledge . That is why I believe in atheism .because as far we have seen we are able to come with answers that doesn't need god so there is no reason to believe in god . and

@canisterxx307

2 жыл бұрын

@@nafisasalie6230 the reason why you should become an atheist is that . one there are many diseases that need cure and millions are dying if you use the time you have to pray and study bible, read get a degree become a scientist and make cures you save millions of life. If your god is merciful as you say he is then he will understand. Another why you should abandon Christianity is because religions like Islam ,etc use you as a basis for their religion . and it is oppressing millions of people. Like I said we can't disprove a non existent. So I say rather than look for heaven we don't know, why not try to create a heaven here for your fellow human beings.

As an atheist “suffering” with depression I have been told many times that it is due to my lack of belief in god. However as an educated woman I have the sense to know better and so I don’t let that phase me. I have always found it interesting how my religious friends and family would say this to me but are pleasant and caring to our religious friends who are suffering the same if not worse than me. I’m doing fine and my atheist (immediate) family are caring and warm to me, so I have support. Considering that they preach love and tolerance etc I am always amazed at their hypocrisy.

@metamatrixclub1186

Жыл бұрын

lack of dopamine is generally the issue. Or balancing it out in the brain. Testosterone levels and estrogen low = depression. Diet change to counter this issue. Look up exotic foods that allow this slow change over time. Pills tend to be to much to soon.

@shayleefreitas7037

Жыл бұрын

I was literally just as depressed as a Christian too

@stirpiano

Жыл бұрын

@@metamatrixclub1186 certain hormones can also be too high if you catch my drift 🤪

For me (a gay men) life actually became "livable" after I left Christianity.

@mrpedrobraga

2 жыл бұрын

I see the dog

@petezipardi4022

2 жыл бұрын

Right on, my friend. The compassion and empathy I have felt from my gay brothers and sisters is something I have realized since grade school. As my friend Mark Renton told me, "Sex is about aesthetics and has f*** all to do with morality." As far as I am concerned being different in such a way can help you be a better person overall.

@liciaadinson1102

2 жыл бұрын

Well that is generally the case obviously

@katie-mz6si

2 жыл бұрын

Same. I'm still living in a Christian home but I'm a lesbian and ever since I secretly left religion, I have been happier with myself and with my life in general.

@liciaadinson1102

2 жыл бұрын

@@katie-mz6si well you still believe in God?

The most happy and peaceful countries in the world are all countries where people don't care much for religion. Regards from Scandinavia.

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

Can I observe that the absence of life stress or mental stress isn't happiness. And the absence of mental stress in the Scandinvaian countries is down to their compressed income structures. In the US income structures are widely divergent and create horrible mental stresses for those at the bottom of the pile. This exists in many other countries but the US is unique. In that country you are taught that effort means reward. In short, if you are poor it's your own fault. The irony is those at the bottom are more religious.

@Kevin-cy2dr

2 жыл бұрын

Not playing the devils advocate but North Korea doesn't have god or religion.

@TheBarser

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kevin-cy2dr well there are always exceptions. But usually it is like this. If one is happy and educated then they don't need a God in there life. But is your life filled with pain and in poverty then a God can help you. You know like psychologically. The point is that while a God can help you mentally, it doesn't make societies better, and people en general more happy.

@SimonEllwood

2 жыл бұрын

@Черногорский истребитель Yes we do need science to tell us who is happy otherwise we are just making stuff up. Religion has been the cause of much war and trauma which goes against your hypothesis.

@TheBarser

2 жыл бұрын

@@zapkvr did you notice that most of the Conservatives in america that want to keep the unequal economic model are infact devout Christians?

As an atheist ( born, grown and live as an atheist, who never needed any kindness or rage from any higher being ) I was shocked. The theistic people really think that this world we live in... is terrible, absurd, meaningless and so on? Someone's basement where the junk and trash rot together in the stinking darkness? Really? Why they hate this world? ...glad I'm atheist... Maybe it's new for them, but I must say: This world is amazing, beautiful, lovely, funny and first of all LIVABLE! ( Hope we will not destroy the Earth. ) This world gave life to every ancestors you have, to your father and mother, and they gave you your own personal life. This world is your cradle, playground, wedding bed, workplace, home, toilet and grave. This world is not only livable, but lovable too. Men of faith - I ask just a little respect! Please! I myself love this world, and I feel sad if someone hate it.

@tracyavent-costanza346

2 жыл бұрын

perhaps it is better that some hate life, than that they concentrate such capacity of hatred upon their fellow humans. and I note that some did both.

@four-x-trading5606

2 жыл бұрын

And those people that believe in God make the world that much more miserable for everyone else to truly live because in their mind they have to be perfect and think everyone is constantly threatened with hell how can you relax and enjoy life if your always thinking that way? I would never want to believe what they believe in because I would never live my life but that's their problem they can make the choice to change and open their mind but they remain ignorant fools chained to religion and then when it all said and don they have wasted their whole life

@quelqunx7470

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, look at China, China has historically kept religions at bay, bar confucianism and Buddhism, both of which are more philosophies and than religion. China was the most powerful country in the world (except maybe for some short periods of civil unrest) until maybe the 16th century. At the very least, the Chinese civilization is the only one that lasted since the times of the first civilizations, all the way to modern times. (Indian civilization too, it was conquered everyone, but the conquerors ended up being assimilated everytime. Egyptian civilization is unrecognizable today. Same for Mesopotamia) The arrogance of the judeo-christian religions, along with their ignorance, is something remarkable. Their claim that they were created by their God is just so ridiculous to hear as a Chinese because we literally have writings better preserved than these ignorants from 4000 years ago, mythology inspired from people living before 4000 years ago, and some made up mythology and NONE support the claims of the creation in the Bible. Lmao the Chinese mythology says the world was nothing, and the was a giant who felt all squeezed up by the lack of space that he pushed the space around such that space expanded. Then he pass away because he was too tired and his body became the landscape. Sounds closer to the big bang than creation in the Bible lol.

@jfacum24

Жыл бұрын

As an atheist the world is kinda hateable and sad a lot of times tbh

@zabbee2323

Жыл бұрын

I think the world has the potential to be both, but we can work to make it look more like how you envision it.

Drew, the weeks after becoming an Atheist, I was afraid I'd lost both meaning and morality. I remember in the weeks that followed... one morning, I woke up and the sun was shining through the windows. And that was enough. I love sunlight. Later, I was driving down the road. A Texas rain started pouring. There was a homeless woman begging on the side of the road. I ran out and gave her my umbrella, not for Jesus, because I, as a fellow human, cared. I cried afterwards. I realized that my meaning and my morality were superior to anything given to me an outside source. Thank you for your videos. Sometimes, I need to remember that journey and I get to share it with you without the reactiveness I get elsewhere. I think we share this, I was a minister. A lot of my friends are in ministry. I don't hate them or look down on them. The ones who are still friends with me might disagree, but we still talk, we still seek truth together. That's what it means to be humans. A lot of my fellow Atheists don't understand that, like a lot of my Christian friends didn't. You said something in a previous video I often say to my Christian friends. You said something like, "And if it turns out I'm wrong and God is real, I feel like my current beliefs are justified with my current level of knowledge." I don't know if there's a God, but if there is, that God has to be smart enough to know that I'm a tiny human trying to figure out the universe. I don't know shit. Punishing me for that would be weird. Anyway, love your channel. Thank you!

@tracyavent-costanza346

2 жыл бұрын

@jon noble and obviously it occurred to you that generosity and caring of one's fellows WITHOUT SOMEONE CONSTANTLY WATCHING or keeping score of brownie points, is the actual genuine gesture. welcome to the rest of the world. you have some fewer things to fear now. but I do still hold some issues with man's inhumanity to man. and I still make mistakes. I still have regrets. Nobody is going to absolve me of those. If i do "wrong" I try to make amends to them I have wronged. There are bound to be wrongs I do without even knowing, but those have to sort themselves out.

@cornopeanus

2 жыл бұрын

but what if instead you had gone up to the homeless man and kicked him in the ribs? on a secular worldview, how does that differ from giving him an umbrella? and btw...thanks for doing that; it was noble and kind.

@transhumean

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornopeanus I don't think insane humans kick people in the ribs for no reason any more than bees sting for no reason. Even animals adopt other animals, and I don't hear anyone arguing that dolphins save humans from sharks because Dolphin-Jesus said to. I think empathy is just a part of being a social animal. Social animals couldn't be social animals without empathy. What do you think?

@cornopeanus

2 жыл бұрын

​@@transhumean My point is that on secular principles, empathy is a meaningless category. If we are simply biochemical machines with no soul and no real freedom to make choices, then we have no way of assessing whether a given choice (say to kick someone in the ribs) is good or bad. Would you ever think of your car or your smartfone as something with empathy?

@transhumean

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornopeanus Are you asserting that religious folks share a universally consistent perspective concerning morality? You seem to be making some assumptions about the secular perspective that I am not sure I share. And I'm wondering whether you got these assumptions by listening to secularists or whether you got them from a Christian apologist. We do this thing, all of us, where we let Rachel Maddow tell us what conservatives think. We shouldn't. Or we let Tucker tell us what liberals think. We shouldn't. I am a former minister. What the apologists say about people like me is incorrect. Please, keep the conversation going

I've always despised the idea that life has no value without a deity. Just the fact that there is no "divine purpose" doesn't make our lives not worthwhile living.

@varunmohan3760

2 жыл бұрын

It's the opposite for me. As an atheist, I don't see any meaningfulness to any humans life, only that we are alive therefore we should make use of the opportunity. It's pessimistic, I know, but it works. Edit: Also not saying that theists suddenly have a meaning in life just because of their faith, faith isn't something I would use to judge whether I should be living my life how I want to or not.

@CodyTaylor115

2 жыл бұрын

One could argue the possibilities of life is even more vast and worthwhile with a near infinite amount of experiences and goals you can find happiness and fulfillment from instead of being limited by what one religion says you must do to live a good life.

@proculusjulius7035

2 жыл бұрын

The flying spaghetti monster compells you to see reason. He's the one true God. May his noodley appendages guide you to everlasting noodle soup. Ramen.

@varunmohan3760

2 жыл бұрын

@@proculusjulius7035 @topcommentgod

@Wokenstein

2 жыл бұрын

@@varunmohan3760 Camus' Absurdism is what I find most comforting

That's almost like saying adult life is unlivable because you no longer have your parents telling you to eat your veggies and do your chores. It confuses me how they fail to consider (or maybe disregard) the fulfillment most people find in independence and self-resposibility as a driving force in life.

@schlamothy

2 жыл бұрын

I’m definitely stealing that analogy lol

@pranavflame

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, for real!

@iananderson4754

2 жыл бұрын

They don't know of the social contract. Like true sociopaths

@bdf2718

2 жыл бұрын

Or it's like saying that you cannot enjoy your hobby that you freely chose for yourself, you can only enjoy your unpleasant job at Amazon where Jeff Bezos micromanages everything you do, even when you can go to the toilet. It's not true of everyone, but many people enjoy their days off work more than they enjoy their work. Because nobody is telling them what to do on their day off. Of course, they may have family commitments, but still enjoy "me time." As usual, WLC is spouting nonsense.

@pechaa

2 жыл бұрын

Well, in fact, my parents - Catholics in their 70s - are still looking for someone to praise them for eating their veggies and doing their chores, figuratively and literally. My Mom often tells me proudly that she was “good” with her diet recently, and she wants me to tell her “good job.”. Both parents are scrupulous about keeping their yard ship-shape and the house inside tidy and clean. They fret endlessly over neighbors who they judge to be falling short. (My ramshackle house drives them bonkers.). They are wholly capable upstanding adults who raised happy, productive children, but emotionally they themselves are like children. I started to notice this around age 11 myself. And then Trump came along and took advantage of a huge population in that state. They demand freedom but, like children, have no sense of the responsibility that is the other side of that freedom.

I was a devout Christian until 22 and recently came out to my family. It’s been hard, but your videos help to keep me grounded. I wrote you in my gratitude journal tonight!

@johnsatan117

2 жыл бұрын

Good luck

As a person who was raised without the concept of God even being mentioned in my home, I never thought about any of this until I was much older. When I got older and spoke with people who believed in God, it blew my mind! But I also blew their minds. They wondered how i came to live by 9 of the 10 commandments (I dont follow number one, to believe in the one God) and asked if I felt frightened since I had no God to look after me. I developed a moral code by myself based on what made sense; dont steal, cheat, lie, covet others' things and, above all, try not to harm others. I have never felt the presence of a higher power, and have not felt the lack. I do not feel hopeless. I feel my life has meaning; I work to help others and it brings me great satisfaction. I am not afraid to die bc it never occurred to me that eternal punishment was even an option. It never occurred to me that I had a soul so I have no questions about what happens to me (or my soul) after death; I figured I'd disintegrate like other dead animals. Being an atheist wasnt a choice for me. I just am. I've studied Islam, Judeism, Christianity and Catholicism with imams, rabbis, priests, pastors and JWs, so I know the scriptures better than many. They are interesting and help explain a lot of history and human behavior, but they dont inspire a need for God in me.

@silvertail7131

2 жыл бұрын

In the end the reason the biblical moral code was written that way, was because it's what made sense to the humans who wrote it, because it's the same conclusion most humans come to when they see the world through the lens of social instincts. I suppose it must be shocking if you believe these ideas only exist because of a book... and find, nope... happens naturally.

The biggest conflict for me when I hear the argument of “Atheists can’t feel meaning.” Is that when I was a Christian, life felt unbelievably meaningless and pointless. Why am I waiting to die? Nothing here matters, it’s the eternity in heaven that I’m looking towards. When I shifted to being an Atheist, I felt that weight off my back and my life is meaningful because it just ends when I die. If I believed in an afterlife, that meaning disappears.

@bolderblood5240

2 жыл бұрын

If your life continues in the afterlife why does meaning disappear?

@greyblob1101

2 жыл бұрын

Just want to say, we dont really know if it all ends when we die. The true nature of consciousness isnt yet understood, so what happens after death is a mystery.

@yurisei6732

2 жыл бұрын

This is something I really find entertaining about Abrahamic religion. It's invented a comforting afterlife, but then it needed a way to make people not just immediately try to die so they can get there, so it made suicide a sin.

@leimmortalraven3246

2 жыл бұрын

@@greyblob1101 I’m aware. Simply what I personally believe

@leimmortalraven3246

2 жыл бұрын

@@bolderblood5240 For me it was more so like. It isn’t what matters in the world. What matters is the afterlife and that union with god. Its an inclination towards death that kinda made my life difficult to enjoy.

Reminds me of a quote, I think by George Bernard Shaw, “Saying that a believer is happier than a non-believer is no more to the point than saying a drunk man is happier than a sober one!”

@basolfjeld

2 жыл бұрын

@Justin Gary This video obviously went over your head..

@tgstudio85

2 жыл бұрын

@@basolfjeld he is copy paste troll, i don't think he has much intelligence in his brain.

@junacebedo888

2 жыл бұрын

Lane Craig did NOT say that atheist can't be happy. He said that non-believers happiness is inconsistent with their worldview

@normalguy11.11

2 жыл бұрын

@Justin Gary Yeah, Im a closeted atheist in an Islamic country, and I can surely say that I am definitely not the one making my life miserable

@fragileomniscience7647

2 жыл бұрын

@@junacebedo888 As far as I know, the secretion of dopamine doesn't give a damn about non-measurable ideas.

I remember once in my teens when me and a friend saw a plane leaving a huge vapor trail in the sky. The sun was hitting it just right and leaving it coloured like a rainbow, like a rainbow coloured slash in the sky. It was so beautiful! As we were looking at it, I said: "it is just amazing that light travelled millions of kilometers, entered the atmosphere at the right angle and hit all those tiny particles, just to scatter itself into this colourful spectrum, photons of which arrived at our eyes and made us see all that" To which she said: "why did you need to remove the magic from this moment?" We are still friends today (more than 10 years have passed), and I always bring this exchange up. I was (and still am) so amazed by this, because for me (raised as an atheist) the "magic" and amazement came mainly from the knowledge of all these details and intricacies that created that moment. No God, fairy or magic was needed for me to experience the sheer awe of that beautiful vision, but the scientific facts behind it made all the experience even more astonishing. Some people just need their reality to be fantastic (as in derived from fantasy). (Sorry for my English, cheers from Brazil)

@TheRealCatof

Жыл бұрын

Your English is very good, no need to be sorry.

@MinTea14

Жыл бұрын

This is really well written, no worries

@a_newcomer9403

Жыл бұрын

Aww love that, same feeling over here I love the knowledge of it

@cosmic2750

Жыл бұрын

I understand what you say, but sometimes you just gotta forget everything scientific, religious, and just enjoy the beauty of life and the world!

Other than falling out with almost everyone I knew, I had almost the opposite experience when I left Christianity. I had never felt more happy and free and powerful. I was finally able to choose my own path and define my own life and happiness. The benefit to my situation though was that I was living abroad at the time. I know if I was still at home though I would never have the courage or strength to leave my faith for fear of retribution.

The myth that Christianity makes you happy is something I had to come face-to-face with in my own life when my proper "Christian" beliefs led me to what was nearly my death. I had been made to feel that I was forced to live this way or else I was damned, I lived in constant fear of what would happen to me if I left my abusive husband, and eventually it led to nearly being killed by him. At that point, I began seeing my life much more clearly and I realized that the people who had pushed me to this point in my life weren't happy either. I received encouragement to stay with my husband anyway by women who were also abused by their husbands, and I was threatened by men in the church of what would happen should I leave (likely also abusers). I never felt more hopeless than being a Christian, and I never felt more misled because I had been promised that by living this way I would be happy, and I realized that I had never even known happiness. You're right when you say that Christians who think that life has no meaning without God already have no meaning, and how could they not? They're made to believe that EVERYTHING in life is either pointless or sinful, nothing is to be enjoyed *but* God, so people like me grow up with no sense of purpose or happiness because we aren't allowed to have any. It wasn't until I did leave my abusive ex-husband and the church that I ever felt hopeful, because for once in my life, I was allowed to be. I was allowed to decide what mattered and what didn't, what to live for and what not to, what to enjoy and what I didn't care for. Freedom gave me hope, not religious fundamentalism.

@fairytala

2 жыл бұрын

I would like to leave you some loving thoughts. What you did was amazingly brave and must have been incredibly difficult. Turning yourself from a victim into a survivor taking their life into their own hands is... beyond words. I'm so glad it turned out to be worthwile!

@martifingers

2 жыл бұрын

@@fairytala I want to add my admiration as well. Whatever the ultimate truth, your story is inspiring because it shows human potential and strength and clarity of vision : you nailed the inherent repression of this sort of religiosity "EVERYTHING in life is either pointless or sinful". Exactly right. I hope you are doing really well in your new freedom.

@mabatch3769

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing. I’m very sorry you went through that but I’m very very glad you got out of it. You have a strength in you that not many have.

@yachishairclips2250

2 жыл бұрын

Your story is inspiring for me.. Thank you for sharing.. Your struggle is not easy but you opened your mind and had vision and acted upon it.. I am happy for you breaking free... I must reflect and try to break free in my hopeless situation, RN.. Even in medical field.. Abused wives have a illness called "Battered wife syndrome" and one of its treatment is to leave ASAP and find victims to find proper channels for them to get out of their bad situation and to think you did it with yourself is amazing..

@jtveg

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you made it out with your health and sanity. Stay strong and best of luck with your newfound freedom.

Stating that not believing in a god leads to depression and meaningless life IS a reason why some people feel that way when they leave churches.

@rikospostmodernlife

2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, hyperstition

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

Drew said this exactly. He also disputes it. Which isn't difficult

@letsomethingshine

2 жыл бұрын

Part of controlled opposition, like the idea of demons and 616.

@drschwandi3687

2 жыл бұрын

How did you find meaning without god? I dont seem to be able to do that atm.

@fidelluz2942

2 жыл бұрын

@@drschwandi3687 I think it's different for each one. My way was doing things that made me feel emotions, even sadness and fear are proofs that I'm alive. I have no porpoise or meaning, I'm just a individual from a species, that by itself allows me to do whatever I want. I follow my feelings and reason, do what I consider beneficial to me and others and that's it. When I die I'll be no more so if I want to be something the time is now. Hope this isn't to confuse

I was talking to one of my coworkers and shes an orthodox christian. One night she said to me "im so happy i have my religion, because otherwise id have no idea what to believe in" and that really hit me. Like "wow, shes genuinely terrified that her life might have no meaning. She's devoted her entire life to this faith that she doesn't know how to live for herself" i honestly sympathize for everyone who grew up in a strict religious household, because they've had to do exactly what their faith says and nothing else, you're never allowed to make your own opinions on anything using your own intelligence and logic. Its really tragic

11:50 When I became an athiest it was with a sense of wonder, suddenly realizing nothing was there. My faith was all connected together, a cohesive, coherent whole. If you had asked me 5 minutes before my epiphany, I would have vehemently supported my faith. It was such a drastic change I sat and meditated in fascination about its loss. It took me months to tell my family, and that was hard. They did an intervention, but I was stoic. My pastor met with me once, and never tried again. My church family turned their back on me, never reaching out to me again. So I lost that totally. Given it went away so quickly and completely, it was pretty shallow. I value life so much. My happiness is actually higher than when I believed. My purpose is to live a good life, while I can.

Even if the life of an atheist WERE inherently miserable and pointless, that wouldn't make God any more likely to exist. Maybe I'd feel more purpose and wellbeing in my life if I believed in Zeus & co, does that mean they are real?

@kitirena_koneko

2 жыл бұрын

As a neopagan, I'd say that they're real from a certain point of view. As an HONEST neopagan, I have to admit that I can't prove one way or the other, and I'm personally happy with that fact. Why does everything have to have a deeper meaning? Why can't we just enjoy things because they're enjoyable?

@user-mv6fv6eh2i

2 жыл бұрын

@@kitirena_koneko you can enjoy beer and spagety, joid the fsm, the largest growing religion, ever

@junacebedo888

2 жыл бұрын

Your statement is pointless

@user-mv6fv6eh2i

2 жыл бұрын

@@junacebedo888 have you consdered following the teaching of the flying spaghetti monster? it requires only your love of people and food, not a belief in a god

@pauligrossinoz

2 жыл бұрын

@@junacebedo888- your statement is _passive-aggressive._

WLC demonstrating how being a Christian is like being in an abusive relationship. "You leave me and you'll be sorry, miserable, and unhappy." "Without me your life is meaningless."

@Skelterbane69

2 жыл бұрын

"You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me, you are only you" - Mike Patton

@anthonyvega2785

2 жыл бұрын

Just not true , many atheists (obviously) think that's the case , but it's not at all, in fact, just the opposite, it's the last thing on their mind. (For most Christians) I'm one and I don't think like that in the least, THE LEAST !

@junacebedo888

2 жыл бұрын

You disbelieve your mechanic and you put water in your car's engine............ your journey will become miserable and unhappy.

@irrelevant_noob

2 жыл бұрын

@@anthonyvega2785 could you be more specific? What's "not true"? What do "many atheists (obviously) think [is] the case"? (I'll skip asking about the opposite, since hopefully you answering the earlier questions will clear that up...) And what don't you think like?

@braeduin

2 жыл бұрын

@@anthonyvega2785 Oh but it is. Christianity shows all the signs of an abusive relationship. Typical signs you're in an abusive relationship - 1. Your partner tries to control your behaviour. 2. Your partner threatens to harm you or people you love (believe in me or burn in hell). 3. You're scared of your partner (fear of god). Things you might feel in an abusive relationship. 1. 'My partner isn’t violent all the time - they love me'.(God loves me and won't send me to hell as long as I keep believing and worshipping him) 2. 'Maybe it's my fault' (I'm an unworthy sinner). 3. 'I'm scared of what will happen if I leave them'. (hell - again).

As someone who was born and raised as an atheist, it’s so odd to hear things like “god given purpose”. It’s such an alien concept to me that people thinking it’s required to be happy is sort of hilarious to hear every time I hear it. I feel for people that had to revamp their worldview when exiting their faith just to feel like they could be happy. It really is just a different way of consuming your experience that is life.

@guyavital4422

11 ай бұрын

i was also born and raised as an atheist, i fell lucky that i was born and raised as an atheist because it gives me an objective view of things, my parents simply didn't tell me about religion until i found out and asked them myself, which allowed me to have my own personal view on religion (which my parents encouraged) and it helps me discredit arguments from both sides (yes, certain arguments from atheists were made poorly and can be disproven, although literally every argument made by theists is easily disproven). it's weird that i have barley seen other born and raised atheists.

Pascal’s wager is literally the shittiest argument possible

@kwamecharles6037

2 жыл бұрын

😹

@loganpharis6747

2 жыл бұрын

As a theist, I agree. I cringe pretty hard when I see theist philophers that have college degrees go up and try to use it.

@serdar.atamyradoff

2 ай бұрын

Can you explain why?

This whole reasoning just sounds like a miserable toxic relationship. "You NEED me to be happy! If you don't stay with me you'll be unhappy forever! There is no happy life outside of our relationship!"

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

"Now worship me!"

@BlurpGooDiJabba

2 жыл бұрын

Bru use your brain. Human understanding is scarcely limited in comparison to Gods understanding. Meaning: if you do what you yourself think is good and disregard the word of God then you are like a 5 year old crying ”unfair unfair” when their dad wont allow them chocolate for dinner..

@BlurpGooDiJabba

2 жыл бұрын

We do need objective scripture and Higher ways because if we let ourselfes be run by our short term desires then we find ourselfes on paths towards destruction.

@Nexils

2 жыл бұрын

​@@BlurpGooDiJabba If God wants to be understood differently, then he should act differently. The way he presents himself to us (or let's himself be presented to us) doesn't really make him seem like a good being.

@BlurpGooDiJabba

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nexils well thats your personal experience. There is a time for those who have been called according to his will. Its all predetermined. Not everyone is meant to go to heaven or believe, we all serve different purposes in glorifying him. Some glorify him throught receiving his wrath and other by receiving mercy in abundance. My personal experience is that i was an antitheist at some point but i slowly after reading many books changed my mind towards the idea gradually. Education and a open mind is the key to finding God. If you watch absolute abominations such as this channel on youtube, you are just reinforcing your own preconceived notions. Its not going to lead you to a correct understanding of the truth. This is cirkle jerking.

It’s insulting that Craig insinuates that what I feel when gazing at my sleeping children isn’t real. I don’t need a god to feel a sense of parental purpose and find meaning in the shining smiles of my boys. What a typically arrogant Christian thing to say…I’m so tired of these people trying to ruin everything and replace it with their own disaster

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

i get what you mean but "gazing at my sleeping children" is a very weird phrase also deadass we need more atheist parents in the world good on you

@Ender7j

2 жыл бұрын

@@emilygordbort7300 why is it weird? When I check on them at night before I go to bed, I can reflect on how shitty my childhood was and I see how much better theirs is in the peacefulness of their rest? Why is that weird?

@WhaleManMan

2 жыл бұрын

I dont think he made that lecture about you specifically dude

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ender7j oh it isn't weird to do it, it just gives me santa claus vibes when phrased the exact way you phrased it

@Ender7j

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhaleManMan you can feel insulted even when not directly addressed. If a Frenchman called Americans cowardly, most Americans would take offense to that. If a feminist called all men misogynistic pigs, most men might take issue with that. The degree of insult is a personal decision, but a decision nonetheless and I don’t care to be insulted by a guy who believes in space wizards, demons and miracle cures.

This video made me reflect with deep gratitude, on growing up in the northeast. While raised Catholic I left the church at 18. I had Jewish, Vaishnavi(spelling?), Protestant, and Muslim friends, neighbors and classmates. My casually open lack of religious affiliation, hadn't ever had any effect, good or bad on my job, friends, place on sports teams etc. I witnessed a very different dynamic while attending the University of Wisconsin. I remember the first time I witnessed an argument between a student and Professor regarding the relevance of the Bible in a science class. Later I interned with a mental health center. After an incident in which another intern had told a caller struggling with questions about their sexual identity that having sex with other men was "evil, and prayer could cure Gay-lust" (I'll never forget that note from the call, they literally hyphenated it!!!) I was gobsmacked and there were many more. It's still alarming to hear what people go through in other areas, at the hands of those who also identify as Christian. It would take profound courage, to be known as openly atheist in a mono-faith community.

As a Christian I thought this time was only a temporary place on the way to eternal happiness. I was an alcoholic destructive person just waiting for this time to be over. As an atheist I realized I needed to enjoy the only time I may have in this universe. I feel like a better person. By no means perfect and am working on myself but so much happier.

I think in the biz we call this “projecting.”

@letsomethingshine

2 жыл бұрын

As well as strawmaning in an attempt at controlled opposition (or even hypersition of their false myths/placebos).

@TooMich

2 жыл бұрын

Yaw, while it is true that some atheist experience emotional distress when they deconverting, much of the time this is because they were told that they would not have meaning as an atheist, not that they actually can’t have meaning

@goaty1964

2 жыл бұрын

The absurd argument is that you can't have a meaningful life without superstition imposing that meaning?... I mean really, why does anyone take this seriously? I'm doing fine without an irrational fear of a vengeful/loving mythical being

@Hevach

2 жыл бұрын

A lot of arguments say more about the speaker than the subject. Somebody who makes this argument can find no meaning in their work, their family, their hobbies, or anything except their faith. And that kind of empty life is sad to think about. Scarier to me is the often closely following one, "Without God there is no morality." Because THAT means they see no value in being a good person or having positive relationships, and they see no threat in worldly punishment. The only thing holding them back is the flimsy threat of Hell, and if they were to fall or suffer a crisis of faith then what is to protect those around them?

Even if atheists were woefully unhappy due to their atheism, this says nothing about whether or not it's true

@Julia-lk8jn

2 жыл бұрын

Good point. Also, neither Christianity nor any other of the three book religions has such an awesome track record at making people feel happy. Superior to others, maybe, but then a truly happy person won't need that feeling of superiority IMO). I don't even think that says much about these religions. I'm afraid believers form their religion much more than the other way around; homophobic, misogynistic believers will turn any religion into a homophobic, misogynistic mess.

@mischarowe

2 жыл бұрын

Also, the survey didn't take faith or non-faith into account. It was basically "are you happy with your life?" which has nothing to do with an atheist's non-belief.

@ProjectExMachina

2 жыл бұрын

@@mischarowe "How can I be happy when a god is torturing and killing little babies?"

@mischarowe

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProjectExMachina Ikr?

@purplekitten6637

2 жыл бұрын

Also, a lack of happiness in an atheist's life wouldn't necessarily indicate that it is their lack of religious beliefs that torments them - rather, the way more likely scenario is that they were unhappy due to the way their family or society in general treats their atheism. Atheists being unhappy would say more about society in general than it would about what one should or should not believe.

The problem is that when WLC says that without God, atheists' lives have no meaning, or significance, hes projecting his own insecurities onto atheism, not describing what atheists' actually feel. Truth is, whether you think your life has significance or not is based on your personal values and what you find to be significant or not. Also there are different paths towards a sense of meaning - work, hobbies, relationships, goals etc. However, atheism can't give you 'cosmic significance', but for many people, feeling vital to the cosmos isn't a deal breaker for living a happy and meaningful life

@konyvnyelv.

2 жыл бұрын

Even most theists don't believe they're useful. Their purpose is just to worship God forever so they are just slaves and can't add anything to the world since God is omnipotent and could do anything by himself

@daviddeida

2 жыл бұрын

@@konyvnyelv. What?.Love thy neighbor as thy self is'nt being useful to a theist.smh What are you a slave to,? genes and conditioning over which you did not choose.

Hey Drew, I just want to take a moment to thank you. Your videos have been part of my very recent progress towards atheism. And after living as a closeted atheist for about 6 months, I finally came out to my closest Christian friends today and it did not go well. I was basically consigned to Hellfire which I get to a degree because, Hell is kind of the Christian way of dealing with the issue of non-belief. But I had hoped my long-term connections with close friends would yield some more subtle responses. Feeling very alone right now. Thank you for all that you do.

@TheBluePhoenix008

2 жыл бұрын

If your friends condemn you to hell just because you don't believe in God, you need better friends mate.

@BruceHurley

2 жыл бұрын

I know your comment is six months old, but I hope you've found some peace since then. Your friends have been brainwashed and so they are simply regurgitating the standard responses with which they have been programmed. You didn't ask, but here's a perspective for you to consider: realize that they have your best interests at heart. They truly believe what they are saying and if they didn't care about you, they wouldn't bother trying to convince you. So their actions, while misguided, are an act of love-feel the honor in that even as you smile and move on. You don't need to debate them or even offer any explanations. Just thank them for their concern and ask them if they're still willing to be your friend despite your different views. If they are, then politely explain that you want your friendship to be based on love, acceptance, and commonalities instead of judgment and differences. If they're not willing to have a relationship on those terms, then hug them and tell them that you'll always value your time together and that you will always wish the best for them. Then hit up some people like me who will accept you for who you are, even if we disagree about important things.

@chikinpotpi

4 ай бұрын

2 years on; hope you're well.

Let me get William Lane Craig's argument straight: Giving yourself meaning and purpose = delusional Being used for the purpose of making God happy = good Got it.

@blackgrizly9522

2 жыл бұрын

God has some serious issues

@oanhienlong7264

2 жыл бұрын

Best to ignore these kind of people,cause themselves are ignorant enough. I don't say it cause he's religious but if he don't give a crap of how athiest actually feels,think and what they actually is(not some evil,anti moral shit) then it's not worth your time seeing more of what he have to say.

@pipMcDohl

2 жыл бұрын

no that's not it Craig's argument is more like Giving yourself meaning and purpose = delusional Giving yourself meaning and purpose for believing in a god without proving at any point he exist = not delusional

@oniedahn

2 жыл бұрын

i can only speak for myself, pls dont lump me in with the others. in the commandments there is 1 commandment that says "treat another with love/as yourself" (depending on the version but the message remains the same). if these christians you speak of call someone delusional or judge someone by their belief then they are hypocrites purely because of that commandment. being a christian means that you dont judge, that you dont try to think ill of ppl, understanding that every1 has a bad moment or a bad part in their life and acting accordingly in their best interest. its a very personal choice, and accepting God is the best thing that happened for me, but im not going to brown-nose other ppl or browbeat them, absolutely not, every1 has a right to make their own choice, to choose what they believe in and i respect the hell out of that. myself i am a christian, but i dont consider myself religious. i consider myself faithful, because religion is organized, but faith is completely personal. turned into a small rant this, have a good day everyone.

@nilloc28

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao 🤣

WLC is like saying: "How can you enjoy the meal you chose when no one told you objectivly what to eat?"

@cy-one

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. It's the same issue with morality. "How can you, a social and empathetic being, prefer not causing harm and having no harm caused to you if no one is telling you objectively what to do?"

@frankwhelan1715

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I'd say even theists get most of their meaning and happiness from ordinary everyday things (probably including Craig) not from thinking whats going to happen to them when they die.

@wishusknight3009

2 жыл бұрын

How can you enjoy a meal if you are only going to poop it out in 24 hours. Theists have some of the most asinine reasoning around.

@Luinta

2 жыл бұрын

@@cy-one This is hte big one I see a lot. Like, I am perfectly happy not running out to murder people on hte daily, not becuase I'm scared some God is gonna punish me; hell I'm not even scared the police or other people are going to punish me. I just dont like hurting people. If I really feel a need to hurt someone, I play games or write a story, because I dont like hurting people, even when I feel like they deserve it. Some folks? Sure I'd kill a few specific people due to the harm they cuase others. But that's based on my own sense of morality, and when I believe that it's necessary to put aside my distaste for harm in order ot prevent greater harm. But that's another discussion. Seriously, how fucking sad of a person do you have to be to think "wow, if God didn't tell me not to, how could I ever stop myself from hurting people?"

@cy-one

2 жыл бұрын

@@Luinta Well, pretty sad tbh. Consider they genuinely believe they're "broken" and deserve eternal torture if they "can't make it up" to God. Which is also impossible, because "no one is without sin." So the only thing they can do in their perception is just _believe extra-hard_ so God be merciful and ignore all their sins, letting them into heaven anyway. Which of course would be impossible in the first place, because mercy is by definition contradictory to justice... So to let them into heaven despite their sins, God would need to act unjust... But God is defined as just. But also merciful... which contradicts itself... And round and round it goes until the mind is completely mush.

As someone who was raised in an irreligious household, I've always found it so weird how believers would claim to know my own worldview better than myself. When I say that I can find happiness and meaning in my life without believing in gods, they are basically saying that I am lying or deluded about my own mental state. Such arrogance is incredibly infuriating. Or when they think that my genuine happiness means that I'm somehow not being "consistent". Fuck "consistency", I'm more concerned about whether my actions hurt other people or not. What possible purpose is served by getting gods involved? Fairness and justice only happen when humans make it so. God is irrelevant.

@amp4105

2 жыл бұрын

God and religion is a coping mechanism, a way for people to feel like theres more value to life than there ultimately is. That's the only reason people believe in it.

@allister.trudel

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry for my ignorance, I didn,t grow up in religion, but I'm really confused about that concept of consistency? What does it intail exactly? Why is it so important? Can't people be spontaneous and change their routines and be happy? It just seems kind of an arbitrary aspect of ones personality to place in such high value.

@ivyhearst3554

2 жыл бұрын

@@allister.trudel I think he means *internally* consistent, aka not believing things that are contradictory.

The fact that we're even born is a miracle, it's selfish of Humans to crave an afterlife, we have no idea how lucky we are to have the life we're already living. Brilliant quote from Ricky Gervais: "We don't need God to be good. And even if we did, we haven't got him"

" What's the purpose of afterlife if there is no after-afterlife?" -Darkmatter.

@rickyspanisch2864

2 жыл бұрын

A man of culture I see

@charlesevilguy6886

2 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of "The Good Place"

@davidbeaulieu4815

2 жыл бұрын

@@charlesevilguy6886 love that show it's hilarious.

@UlshaRS

2 жыл бұрын

Shut up Jeffrey

@leekuanjiet8435

2 жыл бұрын

Lolololololol

Bank: your account balance is $0.00 Apologists: If I had no money, I couldn't afford food, rent, or healthcare. Such a life would be terrible and unlivable. Therefore, I believe I do have money

@thomash.schwed3662

2 жыл бұрын

That's probably the most accurate description of the "Blab It and Grab It" prosperity gospel I've ever read. And, because they do 'believe they have money', despite the actual evidence telling them that they're, in fact, broke, they write bouncing checks to their favorite charlatans, er, I mean, televangelists, as an act of non-evidenced "faith". After all, they'll be the first to say: "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:17,20,26) They're also the same ones who try to claim that Hebrews 11:1 states that "faith" is based upon evidence, when the text actually says that "faith" is nothing more than a blind "assurance".

@stylis666

2 жыл бұрын

Theism: rationalize believing what you wish to exist.

@UlshaRS

2 жыл бұрын

Healthcare? But prayer.

@grantgooch5834

2 жыл бұрын

@@stylis666 Atheism: being too stupid to understand what actually exists.

@machinaowl910

2 жыл бұрын

@@grantgooch5834 I don't believe he misused the word?

I'm actually pretty fascinated by the idea that the absurd and the meaningful cannot coexist. It's my favorite story telling style like "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once". It is both bonkers absurd yet deeply moving and shows how we can still find joy and meaning in that despite everything.

"an atheist can make sense of life just by the pleasure of living it" That is EXACTLY what I was thinking all the way through this video. I try to live life moment to moment, grateful for each moment that comes my way. I would certainly report myself as a happy person. Why do you need "objective meaning" anyway? Craig's argument is nothing but TAG, which is inherently circular.

When they say without god there is no purpose, I can’t help but to think about all the people who’s purpose was to be enslaved, raped, terminally ill, etc. they love to talk about god given purpose until it comes to people who according to them were destined to live severely painful lives and die horrible deaths. They are so self centered and closed minded. It’s so sad.

@r.m.5548

2 жыл бұрын

Thats basically everyone imo. Take financially successful people for instance; they will claim their efforts made them rich but ignore all the millions that try the same thing and suffer. Humans seem to really like being able to have their god, their money, their way, and ignore or worse shame others.

@loganpharis6747

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, that argument only works if you assume purpose means that your actions or things that happen to you are predetermined. When people talk about purpose in the context of religion, they usually mean something they can reference to give their life structure and meaning.

@madeleinedarnoco5190

2 жыл бұрын

That’s one of the main reasons why I left faith. What God can approve this world, if he is on our side? And if he isn’t, then what’s the purpose in worshiping him?

@chukyuniqul

2 жыл бұрын

@@r.m.5548 idk I have a life that is definitely not the worst (I think I qualify as lower middle class) and the only time I've ever had issue is when someone implied that I'm somehow bad for having a non-horrible life. I have never considered that any group of people have brought their lives upon themselves (though I will admit that I was never so deluded to think that I'm in any form a good person when I wouldn't trade my place with someone less fortunate. I help, but at no expense to my meager comforts)

@tihralahn

2 жыл бұрын

@@madeleinedarnoco5190 He doesn’t approve of this world. I really wish atheists would learn about Christianity and the Bible prior to debating (I have the same wish for Christians btw). God also does not promise happiness and fulfillment in this world. Fulfillment is reached as it is by everyone, doing those things which have meaning for you.

I've noticed that Christians often say that it gives life meaning but they never say what that meaning is, aside from serving God, which doesn't seen all that meaningful to me.

@martifingers

2 жыл бұрын

Hi. Yes, it just kicks the can down the road a bit...

@JCW7100

2 жыл бұрын

Right. If my purpose (from an Evangelical perspective) is to try to protect people from the God I believe in (if they're not converted they'll go to hell) then that is a very sad purpose indeed.

@MrHunterbuchanan

2 жыл бұрын

Their ultimate meaning is simply believing in Jesus as a prerequisite for the next life, which is the one that really matters. Ironically, this renders their current life essentially meaningless. Craig says that a world filled with absurdity and suffering is pointless without God, but if you have God, that only means you can hand-wave away the absurdity and suffering in the world, because you only have to care about getting to the next world. Where's the consistency in that??

@Llortnerof

2 жыл бұрын

They also seem to all have this condition where they can't come up with goals and reasons to live for themselves, which is somewhat odd. If somebody else can do it, then logically you should be able to do it yourself.

@TooMich

2 жыл бұрын

I was just thinking the same thing, also why do they why we have purpose, you asked what is purpose, but no one is asking how is purpose ☹️

My purpose in life: have fun Who gave me that purpose: myself We dont need a higher being to give us purpose, we can give ourself purpose

I was never happy as a Christian. No matter how hard I tried not to do things I had been taught were sinful, I still sinned. So I constantly felt ashamed of myself. My time as a member of the church did help me get my life on the road that I wanted it on, but ultimately, it could do nothing for my sense of self worth, or for my overall happiness. Part of my path toward leaving the church was realising that nobody in my church community was seeking a connection with each other. They only sort connection with God. When I accepted that I would never have a satisfactory connection with God, and I turned to other people for connection, I was surprised to find that that need was filled almost instantly. I have never felt more alone than I did as a Christian, in a room full of Christians.

"Live consistently!" Craig says, while extolling a worldview no one has ever consistently applied to their own life.

@offgridvr8716

2 жыл бұрын

Are you saying you know every Christian in the world?

@starblaiz1986

2 жыл бұрын

@@offgridvr8716 Can you offer a counter-example?

@offgridvr8716

2 жыл бұрын

@@starblaiz1986 you made the claim. Can you account for the lives of every Christian in the world that they don’t live consistently? Actually if we mean consistently good, the only person who lived a consistently good life was Jesus. Everyone else has fallen short.

@mattmaloney5988

2 жыл бұрын

That’s a brilliant observation.

@crono276

2 жыл бұрын

@@offgridvr8716 Can you account for the life of Jesus outside of the Bible?

God’s final message to his creation: “We apologize for the inconvenience.”

@timgood9818

2 жыл бұрын

@@skyeblu817 It’s a Douglas Adams reference. Chill.

@boomyoulookingforthis1362

2 жыл бұрын

We?!

@erikmckoul2478

2 жыл бұрын

Well shit that would be concerning lol

@pjrama1896

2 жыл бұрын

What version did you read? I heard it was just a dial-up tone.

@heedmydemands

2 жыл бұрын

Douglas Adams is the best!!!!!!

It has been a while since I first started questioning God. It scared me. This same mindset that if there was no God then there was no true happiness persisted in my mind. The only way I could explain it was that I felt like I was drowning, and there was nothing to pull me out. With this channel, I am realizing that this mindset is false, and that I can overcome it. It won't be easy though. My Mami is an immigrant from Mexico. She had me later in life, so she is now 56. I remember, one day, she asked me what God had ever done to me. I was born a miracle, she said. I tried to explain my viewpoint, and she slapped me. It's hard, and we haven't really talked about God since then. I do hope I can get through it. Thanks again, and I apologize for ranting.

the day I became atheist I was incredibly relieved tbh, I was actually the most depressed right before that when I was muslim lol. many atheists are still afraid of hell because of their previous beliefs, because they can't disprove its existence. I've always loved reading about different religions, studying theology and learning about how religions came to be was a hobby of mine, so I simply read how hell came to be in islam (youre video about it was almost exactly what I learned at the time). and now, I do good things because it's the right thing to do, not to escape eternal torture lol. btw, hell in islam is called Jahannam, it was copied directly from gehenna lol

There is clearly a difference of difficulty between the U.S. and Europe in being an atheist. If you said "atheists are miserable" in Europe, people would be wondering what the hell you are talking about.

@Lessk69

2 жыл бұрын

If atheists were miserable, then the Nordic countries would be doing horrible. But being the most non-religious of the west they are doing fantastic!

@Nai_101

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lessk69 i'm Norwegian. It's mostly old people who are still extremely religious. Most young people are confused on what to believe and not to believe

@jayrobinson24

2 жыл бұрын

Same in the US, outside of a few smug religionists who only say this absurd thing so they can give each other virtual high-fives.

@TitaniusAnglesmith

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nai_101 I don't think most of us are confused. Even the old religious people I know aren't the judgemental type one sees in the US or middle east, and tend to be the "god is whoever you want him to be" type. Our society has progressed beyond the need to use religion as an emotional crutch.

@jonathanbaker4361

2 жыл бұрын

@@jayrobinson24 Right, that's why I was listing to this channel run by a smug atheist and read the comments made by other smug atheists. I wanted those virtual high-fives. But from who? You guys are the only people who know I am here. Oh by the way, sorry I don't agree at all with the fellow who said atheists are miserable. So I guess you weren't even talking about people like me. I don't know where he's getting his theology from. I mean Paul points out there's pleasure in sin for a season. He also said there are some who God will give over to a strong delusion and they will believe a lie and be damned. So I agree with you guys. Atheists can totally be happy, God said so too.

"We have nothing to lose and eternity to gain" - what a bullsh*t. I lost all my mental stability being a religious person, worring about every single thought of mine and wondering how can I explain it during confession so I won't be burning in hell... I developed a religious themed ocd and felt like im trapped in some awful little cage, like I have to repress every "bad" thought and even impulse in order to be cristal clear and safe.

@xXSamir44Xx

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget that there are numerous religions out there. Putting all your eggs in one basket only to be met with a different god, well, that would kinda suck.

@Wrkumlin

2 жыл бұрын

Religion is about control. And they use fear and guilt to control you. Remember that these religions were created by ancient, controlling, bullying Barbarians. ‘You’re born a sinner because of original sin, even though it wasn’t you that committed it.’ ‘You will burn in hell if you don’t obey this impossible set of rules.’ Yup. Guilt and fear.

@pauligrossinoz

2 жыл бұрын

@@xXSamir44Xx - yep. Craig's argument was a *false dichotomy,* just like Pascal's wager is a false dichotomy.

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

@@pauligrossinoz That argument is Pascal's wager.

@scotter7663

2 жыл бұрын

The study mentioned in the video also shows that atheists have a higher level of psychological flourishing, so believers have to sacrifice flourishing psychologically for their faith so even this study shows there is something to lose

My 2nd cousin told me flat out on FB that I was unhappy & miserable for being an atheist. I told her " thanks for assuming something about life that you know nothing about. She actually,apologized and said she was miserable until she turned to Jesus. I said that's fine and all,but that's not how I handle my life. She later went all crazy Qanon on me and I had to block,her.

I must admit that for me it comes as quite a shock how to so many people leaving christianity can be such a struggle. For me it was like immediate freedom, and I felt nothing like being left out of a community, fear of losing a job, or general lack of purpose in life. It must really come down to how deep christianity is rooted in each society. In some they really make everything they can to make you fearful of leaving.

"Atheists can't do this!" And then he starts levitating and crying blood as a pentagram appears beneath him.

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

WJC is perfectly aware that there are thousands of happy atheists. His only "purpose" is to scam the gullible.

@SamWeltzin

2 жыл бұрын

Welp, got us there.

@VideoGameVillians

2 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of good stage magicians who can do that.

@jaya1000

2 жыл бұрын

Id watch that

@zacherylouis8660

2 жыл бұрын

Bloody tears of joy as his power expands

“What do you want a meaning for? Life is a desire, not a meaning.” - Charlie Chaplin

@junacebedo888

2 жыл бұрын

C Chaplin is a clown not a philosopher

@loodlebop

2 жыл бұрын

@@junacebedo888 and that makes what difference?

@sentoo7606

2 жыл бұрын

@@junacebedo888 For me he seems like a wise men, who doesnt take himself to seriously. And this is wisdom!

Fun fact: You can be a good person and live your life purposely without religion.

Not having an eternity to look forward to, or dread, means all the time we have is our life on earth. Making something more rare actually makes it more valuable, so if you reduce the amount of time we have, you increase its value. Recognizing the value of your limiting, fleeting moments on this earth can make you appreciate it more, not less.

Atheist: "Hm this tea is cold I am going warm it up" Craig: "Aha! so you do believe in objectively warm tea"

@graey24601

2 жыл бұрын

Oma Desala: "If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, the tea was heated a long time ago."

@HarryNicNicholas

2 жыл бұрын

atheist: "my tea is getting cold, i shall warm it" craig: "what's the point?" atheist: "well, er, to enjoy it." duh.

@veridicusmaximus6010

2 жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas Edit: Craig: it's impossible to enjoy it without believing in an objective warmth for tea given to us by the Objective Tea Warmer. Ah sure you might think you are enjoying it but you're just deceived.

@CruiserDynasty

2 жыл бұрын

The concept of everyone living in there own reality kinda breaks the argument. If you didn't know how i made things and i could predict every action you will make then i would be seen as a god from your view point.

@slashnburn9234

2 жыл бұрын

Rewarming a cup of tea? *British people collectively shudder at the thought*

Existentialists be like: "ive been waiting for this debate my entire life."

@jonutsthedanklordpayton

2 жыл бұрын

Yes we have

@coffinmyface4237

2 жыл бұрын

Absurdists too

@samply_the_best

2 жыл бұрын

I'm just here for the catering

@Leafsdude

2 жыл бұрын

@@coffinmyface4237 Representing.

@jvmeel7454

2 жыл бұрын

@xavi Remo Yeah we are

Christian here, and I just wanted to say I’m sorry that you went through such a difficult time! Fear definitely ought not be the thing that brings someone to or keeps someone with Jesus. It’s to be God’s kindness both through Jesus and His people. Thank you for sharing such thought-provoking work and encouraging people to seek out truth!

@empressofhearts7300

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for demonstrating to me not every religious person is like the one in the video

This is why Im thankful that coming from a secular Jewish household, my parents are tolerant to everything while remaining reverent. Judaism isn’t as imperialistic or missionary as it’s other Abrahamic brothers.

Well, i think this is an implicit acknowledgement of what we atheists claim: humans create God, not the other way around. Believers NEED God to give their lives a purpose. They don't say "we believe in God because there's evidence". They say "we believe in God because otherwise life would make no sense". Exactly! The next step would be becoming an atheist.

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

except that believers don't really need god to have a purpose. 99% of the things they do have nothing to do with god. what theists really mean when they talk about the meaning of life is the after-life.

@karsten69

2 жыл бұрын

they don't really believe in god, they just sort of hope there is a god. why else would they wear seatbelts? or call the fire department? or get medical treatment? death that is not suicide should according to them, get them into heaven, but how come they reject that easy path? it's because deep down, they know there is nothing after, and so they cling to this life.

@vikinghawk3358

2 жыл бұрын

Wearing a seatbelt doesn’t mean u just hope there is a god . Unless u have a death wish people fight to extend their life it has nothing to do with god. Does that mean no atheist wear belts ? Does that load is shit come with a garden hose to wash off said shit ?

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

@@vikinghawk3358 If you really believe in a heavenly paradise why would you fight to extend life? In fact, Christianity was an originally a death cult preparing for the end times. Paul told people not to marry because the end was imminent.

@karsten69

2 жыл бұрын

@@vikinghawk3358 the opposite, if you believe in an afterlife, then this life has less value, so you'd fight less to preserve it. Since Atheist in general don't believe in an afterlife, it's only natural that we'd fight to prolong it, thus we will use a seatbelt.

They should try playing Nier Automata

@redriot2115

2 жыл бұрын

THIS CANNOT CONTINUE THIS CANNOT CONTINUE

@guts1258

2 жыл бұрын

2b, or not 2b, that is the question.

@ReLMayer-mx6du

2 жыл бұрын

This game actually made me question life and existence and played a big part into making me an atheist.

@GRAHFMETAL

2 жыл бұрын

Or Xenogears or 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim. Along with NieR Automata, these three games have my favorite stories and they all deal with existentialism. Xenogears takes it a step further and just straight up mocks western religion. Brilliant games all around

@yuyuhacksaw1661

2 жыл бұрын

Become as gods

I'm a Christian but honestly, I love your channel so much. Thank you for doing what you do and never feel likes it's all for nothing

@the_alpha_not_male

Жыл бұрын

Wait, if you listen to him all the time, how do justify your beliefs? Don't you take his arguments to a point and think about it?

Andrew, I just want to take a moment and tell you what a GREAT help you’ve been to me and my journey from religion. You helped me see things in life that I never have before and helped me understand those things I saw that I didn’t understand. Thank you so much for all your help! Keep up the good work and overwhelming evidence!

Sounds like he's a Christian out if fear that he won't have a purpose, this is a huge waste of words to say he believes because it's a comfort blanket.

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

mostly it's a scam

@markbeiser

2 жыл бұрын

WLC has built his career on wasting words!

@ThW5

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, he argues for the position that belief in his God is useful, be His existence a valid truth or a useful lie...

@andyaquitaine4225

2 жыл бұрын

If you can’t prove it’s true, move onto the next point. But, yes, he’s too morally weak to accept that he’s probably wrong.

@greg77389

2 жыл бұрын

He's stated he believes because he's personally experienced God, so no. Your opinion is worthless and irrelevant.

I can't believe Craig is taken seriously by anybody. I can't believe the other skeptic, Cosmic, seems to respect him. 0:10 basically says, "If reality was this way, then we'd be unable to handle the implications, therefore reality is not this way." Craig, you cannot change reality through sheer inability to cope with it.

@royalroses123

2 жыл бұрын

Wise words said by Alkis...

@tracyavent-costanza346

2 жыл бұрын

@alkis WRT "...you cannot change reality through sheer inability to cope with it..." agreed, but this: humans do exhibit a strange tendency to compensate by creating elaborate narratives to explain things that they factually do not understand. why instead they do not simply attempt to engage that which terrifies them, seems sort of an evolutionary defect.

@weeeeeee7027

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh I feel sorry for Craig, if his words are his real thought

I really enjoy your content, dude. I like the insightful and thought provoking questions you ask in a non-agressive, but serious tone. I'm a Christian myself and it's nice hearing someone else's perspective on things. I've been asking a lot of questions recently. It seems like few of my Christian family or friends really understand me when I try to share my thoughts with them.

Leaving christianity can be frightening but the kind of fear one experiences during that process is in part due to the pain of rebirth. I was scared as a christian - scared because I could never match up to the impossible demands that the faith put on me - in other words, scared of failure. Once I was completely out of christianity there came a point at which I started to feel truly free. I no longer relied on the illusory props I'd been clinging to. It was like having a stifling hand removed from my face and being able to breathe fresh air again. So, how can that feeling possibly be one of hopelessness and misery? It's awesome and exciting to rely on your own expanded awareness of the cosmos and not on the dim view of it as glimpsed down the tunnel of theistic religion.

Is a dog inconsistent in being happy chasing it's tail when it has no concept of a god?

@nondescriptcat5620

2 жыл бұрын

Mu.

@admiralkipper4540

2 жыл бұрын

A dog has no consciousness with which to know itself, but if it did it would probably need to parse some meaning in reality

@crazyfriend50

2 жыл бұрын

@@admiralkipper4540 u sayin a dog is stupid

@admiralkipper4540

2 жыл бұрын

@@crazyfriend50 yep

@r.m.5548

2 жыл бұрын

@@admiralkipper4540 no gods exist

How most Christians explain atheism: If humans can only breathe air Then how do fish breathe water?

@Rudxain

2 жыл бұрын

That's not a good analogy, but I agree in the fact that it shows the nonsense of their statements

@radioaddition5278

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rudxain i think its a great analogy because it makes no sense

@MystFox1314

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rudxain I think it's a decent analogy If [Christians] can [have meaning with God] How can [atheists have meaning without God]

@Rudxain

2 жыл бұрын

@@MystFox1314 I agree. It kinda is a good analogy. I changed my mind

@Rudxain

2 жыл бұрын

@@radioaddition5278 lol

My main issue that kept me in christianity even after i didn't really believe anymore was the christian claim that atheists can't be good people. I wanted to be a good person, so i couldn't leave. I left the moment i met good atheists who were way, way more concerned about fighting social injustice and discrimination than any christians i ever met. I never looked back.

I wonder what Craig would think about someone like me, who suffered depression and suicidal ideation soon after getting baptized and saw no purpose to living because I thought my purpose as a Christian was to die to be with God for eternity. After leaving the faith, I have not had suicidal ideations since then and my depressive symptoms have all but disappeared. There's probably other factors for this, but I think a main one is no longer believing I live in a broken, sinful world or that my "true" home is heaven. Craig's depiction makes it seem like someone who is a Christian couldn't experience depression or hopelessness. But I know plenty of Christians who do. My own Christian family, for instance. It's not only uncompelling, but it's clearly not the case. Unless they want to do the "No True Scotsman" and claim no "real" Christian would feel depressed or hopeless.

I haven't deconstructed yet and I'm going through a wide range of emotions over leaving Christianity (former Mormon). I'm actually identifying what I need to change in order to be truly happy (I came out as queer at the same time I told people I left Christianity about a month ago). What I can tell you is that since telling the people at church not to contact me anymore and coming out, I had an unexpected result. Sundays became a day of rest for me rather than a day of heaviness and guilt. Every Sunday since that day, I've had glorious rest and relaxation and happiness for the first time in my 46 years. The inner argument is over; I made my choice, and I'm pleased and relieved with what's left. I never thought I'd find myself here, but I don't want to take back the change. Leaving Christianity is the biggest step I've taken that has led me in a happier direction. Theists don't get to define happiness as something only they can experience. That's absurd and myopic!

@trishpulley

2 жыл бұрын

Also, thank you for the resource. I didn't have anybody I could trust. Everybody seems to want to ciphon people like me into other religions or make money off of us.

@eliasjakemoran6434

2 жыл бұрын

Aww, that's so great! We're glad to see you made it outta there in one piece and stayed strong. Life controlling and monitoring cults are no fun at all 👌

@javac08642

2 жыл бұрын

Congratulations, I have experienced something very similar to you, a lot of people here have a well, you are not alone.

@madisonelaine2498

2 жыл бұрын

I had a very similar experience to you except I grew up Southern Baptist and came out as lesbian to my father who is a pastor. For me deconverting meant I no longer had to cry every night about the fact that I was gay and going to hell, instead 2 years later I find so much happiness in the fact that I can be who I am and love the gender I want. I always tell my parents this, just because you need a God to feel like your life has meaning does not mean everyone else does. I find overwhelming joy in striving for my goals and becoming a better person who is empathetic and available to the people I love. I find meaning in helping others and making sure their life is full of happiness. I find meaning in the simple and the experiences I have. There is only one life, and my happiness comes from making the most out of my time on this beautiful earth I get to call home for a very short amount of time.

@freedpeeb

2 жыл бұрын

Authenticity is amazing! Congratulations on beginning your journey into your true self. I hope that you are well and happy. I was 48 when I realized I was no longer afraid of God and then I realized that was because I didn't believe in a god any more. Aren't Sundays great! Theists can and will say all sorts of things but we can leave them to stew in their miserable juices. How great is that

I personally feel that because of things like this, some religious people have a sort of placebo effect, of feeling they have the answers and can do more, when theres no conclusive evidence for their case, but theyve proved it to themselves

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

Yep one of the biggest sells for religion is that it allows people to avoid thinking about difficult and unpleasant subjects.

@Leith_Crowther

2 жыл бұрын

When you’re in the Matrix in a priveleged position, taking the blue pill feels good.

@bleirdo_dude

2 жыл бұрын

Just think of thought addictions like compulsive gambling. The Theist defies logic for a postmortem reward. All praise the Holy Dopamine Ghost!

@jayc1139

2 жыл бұрын

They more often than not, from what I can tell, confuse the voice of their conscience for the voice of their god.

@csongorarpad4670

2 жыл бұрын

There's far more than conclusive evidence for the case of Christianity; Found in the resurrection of Christ (historicslly documented by impartial sources and the Bible (which is a historical document,)) the many revelations of Christ and our Holy Mother Mary, with miracles upon miracles. The groundwork is laid out - both the intellectual and the theological one. What's left is for you to take the step and have faith in Christ or if you will live by your own rules in this life and then perish. The choice is simple

Though I've been a subscriber to this channel since its early days, I am now playing "catch up." I was once a Christian minister, and now - philosophically - I fall somewhere between atheist and agnostic. My beliefs, like any others, are nothing more than psychological attempts to explain the universe around me. Not in a mystical, supernatural way, but in a way that provides a method to find emotional freedom and happiness through the understanding that my physical and mental being is intertwined with the entire, physical universe. The agnostic part of my thinking simply means what the word "agnostic" means: I can't "know" that there is or isn't some creative intelligence. Personally, I don't believe in some single, conscious entity that willed the universe into being because - just because. Like Socrates, the ratio between what I think I know and what I think is knowable is so vast that, in effect, I know nothing. Does my lack of belief in the Bible as a divinely inspired historical document alter my sense of purpose or happiness? Yes, it does - but only by increasing them. Without the psychological shackles to some arbitrary and capricious deity, I am free to explore and find meaning in whatever I want to. I've never been as happy or psychologically healthy as I am now. I don't need to question or fret over "god's purpose." The universe is beautiful and magnificent on its own, and the cosmic, geological and biological evolution are wondrous in and of themselves. I have no use for the "God in the gap" to explain what I do not understand. I've had surreal experiences that would be easy to chalk up to something mystical or divine, but that to me is intellectually lazy. In my experience, what theists in general and Christians in particular often miss is that not all experiences must have meaning. A huge asteroid smashing into the earth and wiping out much of the life on earth doesn't mean anything. It makes no logical sense that some supernatural power kicked off the universe and, billions of years ago decided that an asteroid had to smash a planet and destroy what it had created. Because that doesn't make sense, some people find it necessary to deny that dinosaurs existed and that the universe is only a few thousand years old (despite recorded history preceding such a date by tens of thousands of years - evidence which, of course, is explained by saying "God's time isn't our time - "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day"). Still, there is the problem of a flood to wipe out all but a handful of humans and animals because of rampant sin? If you're powerful enough to design the complex physics and balance of the universe, couldn't you also create people with free will but without selfishness and mental illness? Whose fault is the defect that led to such rampant sinfulness in the first place? But I digress. I am grateful, Drew, for your compassion and courage to call out the cruelty of people like William Craig. His behavior is far from Christian, but he does what he does to pander to people who feel threatened (and jealous) of an atheist's happiness and joy without their god. Your happiness and compassion contradict the notion that such attributes can only be imbued by God. When someone asks me how I can possibly be good and moral without Christ I get a little nervous. Is the only thing holding them back from a rampage a fear of eternal damnation and hellfire? Do they feel burdened or forced to love others when they'd much rather not? I think that's more the exception than the rule, but it gives me pause nonetheless. It is my assumption that most of the world's atheists are the most religiously zealous. I believe that oftentimes when someone is aggressive in their attempts to get someone to believe in God, it's only because they are struggling to believe it themselves, and if what they say can convince someone else, then maybe they can believe it, too.

Thank-you for existing and being you. Your work and presence feels comforting. 💛

Being Puerto Rican and recently coming out as atheist, the study you cited is truly helpful and serves of support for the community. Thank you so much for sharing it, Drew! 🇵🇷

@Redranger99

2 жыл бұрын

🇵🇷

@samply_the_best

2 жыл бұрын

Wait you have to "coming out" as atheist? Holy s, much support for you.

My first thought on Craig's thesis is "wow, a Christian lecturing anyone on consistency, is pretty rich."

@bailee7696

2 жыл бұрын

An atheist lecturing on consistency is an oxymoron as well

@thereasonbehindchickensacts

2 жыл бұрын

@@bailee7696 atheism isn't a unified religion telling itself it's holy, so it doesn't have to be consistent

@therougesage7466

2 жыл бұрын

@@thereasonbehindchickensacts wow thats your defense ? “It doesn’t have to be consistent “🤣🤣🤣

@Jonathan.T.1000

2 жыл бұрын

@@therougesage7466 Atheism is just the rejection of the claim that god exist. Atheists will reject the christian god because of the lack of consistency in the story and dogma, but that doesn't mean that an atheist can't believe in some other crazy story (like aliens for example). Therefore saying that an atheist must be consistent is meaningless as there is no dogma/religion/system/ etc.. in atheism since it's the rejection of a claim. Read more about the burden of proof to understand how logic works in the matter of making claims.

@therougesage7466

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jonathan.T.1000 how dim can you be ? honestly , to lack consistency as a properly basic value to carry your word view forward with , and without it good luck making any sense

I spent over 35 years in transition from "Christianity" to "Atheism." My motivation of studying scientific explanations in my career provided a slow and steady transition from the theistic to the natural perspective of the universe. I never went through the "crisis" you describe. I feel for your struggle and for your descriptions of finding your own way. We had been brainwashed into thinking the theist approach is the only way to enjoy love. I have proven that stance to be completely incorrect and its rejection has liberated me.

I've been watching a lot of your videos, this week, and i thought it was because of my interest in religious studies, but really you are helping me with my own lingering issues with the evangelical community and lifestyle i was part of for a decade or so through my teenage years. I recognise so much of what you are saying and yet am thankful that my family and community were not as hard line as yours sound like they are/were. Keep it up, it is good moral support, even regardless of the well researched and informative content.

Its funny they make that claim when there are literally people who are atheists and live perfectly fine live. Do they just not look at reality??

@hulldragon

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! They cannot or will not face reality. It's pathetic.

@artembolshakov3901

2 жыл бұрын

As mentioned: he claims these people aren't living "consistent" lives. That is, they haven't fully examined their worldview. Whether or not you agree, GM_skeptic's rebuttal based on surveys is a straw man rebuttal, which doesn't actually address the original point.

@xXSamir44Xx

2 жыл бұрын

@@artembolshakov3901 Most theists I know don't live consistent lives either. They do things that are frowned upon or outright forbidden in their religion, but justify themselves with arguments such as "Humans are flawed." or "Everybody sins. Hopefully one day god will give me the strength to stop." If they even try to justify themselves at all.

@artembolshakov3901

2 жыл бұрын

And 9:30, again, isn't really valid; what's going on here is partially a war of definitions, but I don't think the theists deliberately created a tautology. Nevertheless, there are certain arguments in favor of these "longer-term" definitions of meaning. Not the least of which is the continuity of society and culture; longer-term thinking is really difficult if your ultimate purpose is the dopamine level in your skullbox. (I'm actually an atheist, I just strongly disagree with Existentialists, and I respect a lot of the cultural consequences of theism).

@Green__one

2 жыл бұрын

Are you truly asking someone who truly and completely believes in talking snakes, virgin births, and invisible all powerful beings in the sky to "just look at reality"? I think we already know the answer here.

Your life doesn't have meaning because you don't believe in the man in the sky that you have never seen. Brilliant thinking

I've been an atheist since I was a child, and I've never felt meaningless in this understanding of the universe. On the contrary, I find that without the constraints of a biblical or theistic worldview, I am free to wonder at the amazing things we might find out there in the deep, dark depths of space.

Even though I am on a different side of this conversation I never once felt like you were demeaning or looked down upon the people who had a different opinion you merely started your facts and just kept it moving that’s something I can really respect you earned a new sub keep up the work

I'd like to ask Craig this question. "Suppose there is no god but all these people still get their meaning and purpose from the belief in this non existent god. Is that still a good place to get meaning and purpose?"

@Ponera-Sama

2 жыл бұрын

I'd like to ask him: "Do you know what an Argumentum ad Consequentiam is?"

@Green__one

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately he wouldn't be able to process the question. That's the thing with arguing with a theist as an atheist, you have such a different world view that the most basic of communication becomes near impossible.

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

@@Green__one I think you're right about WLC. He's not able to entertain the idea people think differently

@derreckwalls7508

2 жыл бұрын

I'd like to ask him what he thinks of people who find a meaning and purpose to their lives through dedication to a non-Christian religion. Buddhists are not theists, so what does he think of Buddhist monks who actually live immersed in a purpose without God? WLC is one of the most narrow minded people on earth, and what is worse, he is fairly well self-educated and chooses to be narrow minded because of his desperate need to believe. I see him as a tragic and pathetic character. Much like Oedipus, he is a victim of circumstances of his own making.

@Ponera-Sama

2 жыл бұрын

You don't even need to go that far. The concluding paragraph in his article presents atheism and Biblical Christianity as "the two alternatives". He completely and deliberately ignores not only non-theistic religions and not only theistic religions that believe in other Gods than his, but also religions that believe in the same God as Christianity like Islam and Judaism. You shouldn't bother with atheistic Buddhism, just ask him about Quranic Islam.

If God does not exist morality is not real and life is without purpose? Well that's a depressing outlook on life. I find the world to be beautiful and the people in it are- mostly- not mediocre and that's enough for me IG.

@varunmohan3760

2 жыл бұрын

They sure do like making things up in their head.

@TooMich

2 жыл бұрын

And they call us the pessimists? 🤔

Two things: 1) Thanks for all the good book recommendations! I've added a bunch of them to my "to-read" shelf in Goodreads. If I see a more recent/working link for your Audible sponsorship, I'll be sure to click it. (These old ones just throw an error.) 2) A fun analogy is that a theist would claim that there's no point in playing Minecraft because there's no win condition. And then players reconstruct Middle-Earth in Minecraft just because.

Hey Drew (hope thats your name, I heard it on one of your videos) I recently discovered your channel through your response video to the Kent Hovind video. Just wanted to say that that video brought me some relief, as someone who was raised a devout Christian I find that lately I've been questioning everything I've been taught. I'm currently studying biology at college and when we discussed evolution I was shocked at how misrepresented the theory was in the Christian community and by how much sense it makes when the evidence and the world around is presented. Then I thought about it more after the recent passing of my father. My whole world has been shaken, I'm just so confused, I don't know what to believe anymore, I prayed so hard that my dad would be saved and nothing happened. On the other hand I don't want to walk away from it cause it feels wrong and I want to believe that my dad is with his parents and all of his brothers in heaven right now, but I just dont know if I can believe in it anymore. I just wanted to say thanks I guess, for making me not feel so alone in my thoughts and doubts.

The "symptoms" you describe regarding your recovery from religion, sound remarkably similar to what a drug addict or drinker might experience when they finally begin to kick the habit !

@scambammer6102

2 жыл бұрын

except society applauds an addict's recovery, whereas skeptics are condemned

@TooMich

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, you gotta go through them religion withdrawals

@Willow4526

2 жыл бұрын

It's also what people with stockholm syndrome can end up going through after attaching themselves to their captor for a long time.

@hel117

2 жыл бұрын

Or someone leaving an abusive or unhealthily dependant relationship

When you describe the bad place you were in when you first left Christianity, because of those teachings, it just shows how toxic organized religion can be. When they feel the need to scare people into sticking around and have no qualms about doing so.

@Nai_101

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know why "organized religion" makes me laugh

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

Eat your vitamins spongebob, they'll make you raw

@jonathanbaker4361

2 жыл бұрын

I get that a lot of people were burn't by organized religion (believe it or not I was too. I grew up going to a Mormon church until I was, like 10 or so), but how does that translate into a rejection of God? I mean if He is or was ever real, the religious offenders didn't create Him. I mean if they lied to you about who God is, did it occur to you maybe they didn't know who God is either? It seems like people only assume these religious pirates made God up because either they got burnt by them, or they are weary of getting burnt (possibly because they got burnt by something else?) I didn't know God when I stopped going to the mormon church, but at least I knew that IF He existed it was not dependent on mine or anyone else acceptance or interpretation of Him.

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanbaker4361 A decent god would do something about all the priests and vicious fossils that use its name to excuse every form of abuse imaginable. All that leaving it to fester does is make victims question why he didn't save them, either coming to the conclusion that they did something to deserve it or god is a callous villain. Either he's made up or is willing to let millions of innocent people think that being violated was part of his grand design. I could spend hours listing off all of the sins of the abrahamic god but I think that wraps it up quite nicely.

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanbaker4361 Despite my harshness, i'm genuinely willing to discuss this. I hope you will forgive me for being blunt, I've both experienced religious abuse first-hand and spent a great deal of time and energy trying to console loved ones who've experienced it as well. this is kind of a personal subject for me and i do not want you to come away from this thinking that I think you're a horrible person for having your own beliefs. My only complaint is against the organized religion, not you as a person.

I find your voice and reasoned arguments so calming. They seem to give meaning in themselves.

I'm so happy my parens has never pressed religion down my throat. As a psychiatric therapist, I understand how hard it must be to confront your inner defense walls, or perhaps cognitive dissonans. It's painfull to have to de-learn most perspectives in life, because they are built on false premissions. I used to be a ski instructor back in the days. The hardest ting was never to teach people to ski! It was de-learning all the wrong things they had thought them self. Remember: Norwegians are born with skis on their feet 🙂 Keep it up!!

"Sartre is really saying 'Let's pretend the universe has meaning'" - Oddly enough, that's exactly what theists do... at least as far as I can tell.

@ingebygstad9667

2 жыл бұрын

One word in there.... _Pretend._ Says it all.

@admiralkipper4540

2 жыл бұрын

Then you clearly can’t tell much, humanity develops metaphysical beliefs in all places in all times and will for all times, if your born into a spiritual worldview pretending isn’t required

@ingebygstad9667

2 жыл бұрын

@@admiralkipper4540 True, but in a world where information is available to more and more people, which also means that facts, information and answers to about any question that _can_ be answered is available in your very pocket, makes ignorance more and more a rather forced necessity, than a natural excuse. What I mean by that is fairly simple; If I can look up, or search for _any_ verse in the Bible or Qur'an at any time, or get myself a briefly educated on Thomas Aquinas in 5-15 minutes on-the-fly, I seriously should expect to hear from religious people who denies evolution flat, that they actually _knew,_ or had some brief knowledge about what they're denying. If they're discussing the bible, I _should_ expect they knew the book better, but they usually don't. _Pretending it's true, pretending it's perfect, pretending knowledge._

@admiralkipper4540

2 жыл бұрын

@@ingebygstad9667 my comment points out only that a genuinely held belief is not someone pretending to know something, they believe it to be true regardless of whatever anyone else may say

@RictusHolloweye

2 жыл бұрын

@@admiralkipper4540 - Interesting that these metaphysical beliefs humans come up with have been different around the world, as if everyone is making up their own and there isn't one true set of beliefs... just the same need for answers and the same readiness to invent them. You can see it in the way these beliefs develop. Beginning with the idea of sympathetic magic, that depictions of successful hunts on a wall can encourage success in real life hunts. Then people invented spirits to inhabit all the aspects of the world to explain how things move and grow. Some of those spirits were believed to be human ancestors who hang around to guide or disapprove of their descendants. Eventually someone came up with the idea of gods and it caught on with tribes around the world inventing their own. The Hebrews had a few in their pantheon up until three thousand years ago, when they got the idea of having just one god from the Egyptians who had attempted to simplify and centre their beliefs around Ra, and later Horus. Yahweh's solo career was more successful than either of the Egyptian gods... but then there arose the problem of why a supreme being would allow evil and suffering in the world. Fortunately contact with Zoroastrianism provided the answer... an adversary who works to test the supreme being! Thus was Satan invented. The Abrahamic religions have gone through many drafts and changes and still do with the various denominations and sects. To believe that any version somehow managed to be true requires pretence and a rigid devotion to remaining ignorant of any facts that demonstrate otherwise.

dang, needing an imaginary friend to feel value and purpose must be hard.

@kronos01ful

2 жыл бұрын

No thas not the point.

@masternerd64

2 жыл бұрын

@@kronos01ful elaborate

@kronos01ful

2 жыл бұрын

@@masternerd64 hi! If a God( a mind outside human mind ) doesn't exist ,life is meaningless. Because there's no absolute truth.

@xXEGPXx

2 жыл бұрын

@@kronos01ful You are putting the cart before the horse here. You must prove objectively that "an absolute truth" exists and such a thing is necessary to derive meaning. People give their lives their own meanings.

@cerostymc

2 жыл бұрын

it's a bit like taking drugs. The first times it brings you good feelings, then you get addicted and think that you _have_ to take the drug in order to be happy...

Honestly, I grew up in a lukewarm Christian household and lost my faith. Without too much detail, my life got a lot worse and mentally I was doing pretty bad. I returned to God and began actively pursuing my faith a year ago and while my conditions really haven't improved, I feel so much better. It is very interesting to be hearing stories from other perspectives, so I want to thank you for posting these videos. It's better for everyone if we actually listen to each other and learn from one another than just yelling "infidel" or "idiot" at each other.