What do you make of this carbon process? ⚙

@craesh

5 ай бұрын

Can you please add captions translating these Farenheit and psi things for the 95% of us?

@raybarber9837

5 ай бұрын

If it helps, 100psi is the pressure of my rear tyre and Fahrenheit 451 is the temperature that paper catches fire. :) @@craesh

@markpeterson8978

5 ай бұрын

I love it!

@fuelbasti

5 ай бұрын

After almost 30 years of working with composite materials as a blue collar and as a designer in engineering, I have now come to the conclusion that there is simply too much hazardous waste being produced.

@launching_para

5 ай бұрын

Pretty awesome stuff, but funny that, after all that automation, they build the wheels by hand. Maybe it's editing, or they simply true them by hand, but it's amusing nonetheless.

Loving these factory videos, excellent work Ollie.

@edgarbran9822

5 ай бұрын

​@@kulchatha4657they're still great even if they're ads. The good thing is they're clearly telling you it's an ad. Even the thumbnail said it. I like to know how stuff is made and I'm sure lots of other GCN viewers do.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Always super cool to see how the magic is made 🙌 Are there any other factories that you would like to see us look into? 👀

@johnstrac

5 ай бұрын

@@gcntech Campagnolo please but I bet they won't let you in !

A company back in the 1990s known as Spin, was making a tri spoke wheel with what they called thermoplastic carbon fiber. It seemed like they were using a similar process to what you showed, but maybe not quite as efficiently done. Their product was significantly more affordable, but heavier than the competition. And there are techniques of recycling, Carbon fiber. There are machines that will burn away the epoxy, leaving behind dry fiber I saw a demonstration where they loaded in a broken bicycle frame and out came just the dry carbon fiber strands.

@johnsmith1474

5 ай бұрын

You are going to expend fuel energy, put bonding chemicals into the air, to recover broken tortured fiber that you do what with? What nonsense, just throw it out.

what about the weight/stiffness data comparaison with prepreg carbon ?

Thermoplastic/carbon fiber bikes were made by GT(?) in the '90s. The advantages were recyclability (not sure how), impact toughness, and the improved damping you mentioned. Disadvantages were inferior strength-to-weight and stiffness-to-weight, and that components like downtube shifters and cable stops needed clips to attach them because they couldn't be glued on. Interesting tech, thanks

Thermoplastics composite nylon in cycling has been around a long time. Examples as Modolo downtube shifters and brake levers from the 1980's and GT made a full squish MTB out of the materials. I do have a road tubular pair of rims made in this same material sold by a company in the UK called Matrix. Its a deep rim and I'm using with a rim brake. (Note: Not the same Matrix company or brand as USA Trek owned.)

@BenFriesen1

5 ай бұрын

Really? I would expect thermoplastic rims to be completly incompatible with rim brakes. The glass transition temperautures for most thermopatics is in the 50-150c range, well under temperqtues that rim brakes see.

Great video, Ollie! I love your behind-the-scenes looks at things.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Ollie loves a snoop through a factory 👀

I absolutely nerd out with videos like this. Great work, Dr. B.!

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Nerd out with the biggest nerd out there 🙌

Fascinating. Another great learning experience. Thanks, Ollie!

It is a cool process. But the waste is still not really fully recycled, instead it is down cycled to a lower grade product. It is something to keep in mind since traditional Aluminium can be 100% recycled to the same product.

Ollie - easily the best explanation of the traditional prep-preg process I've ever soon - great job. Also very cool new tech to boot.

Good video! I had heard Trek was on to this and saw that Lauf was using them on their gravel bikes, so cool to see the process. Will be curious to see how the MTB wheels are and if it expands to more aero shapes and sizes for TT bikes.

@funLad80

5 ай бұрын

You can actually see in 13:12 there is a TREK sticker on rim while in drill machine.

@ElevationEveryWeekend

5 ай бұрын

@@funLad80 Yep, Aeolus is their Bontrager model

@josiaboy

5 ай бұрын

@@funLad80 also, Aeolus (visible when they pull the wheel out of the mold) is a trek wheel model

@mlee6050

5 ай бұрын

Same I'm curious though from this video I still think traditional carbon fiber is better so far I'm still going Ibis S28 for my next rims I'm building for my enduro bike

Great reporting journalism Ollie!

That is the coolest thing I've seen in ages!! Great video!! Thanks 👍👍👌

This is my favourite GCN Tech video ever! The one question I'm left with though is how do the two halves come together? Certainly the spokes would pull through a seam down the middle and the tyre pressure would push that seam apart.

@johnbarron4265

5 ай бұрын

I would imagine that the heat and pressure created inside the mold softens the nylon and forces it to fill the seam between the two rim halves, in like fashion to the earlier process where the strips were patched together and pressed at high temperature to make the flat annular disk for the rim.

@DavidMulligan

5 ай бұрын

@@johnbarron4265 Don't forget that spokes are installed with a great deal of tension and see even more in use, especially drive side and while braking. All of that tension is concentrated into tiny little spoke nipples.

@newolde1

5 ай бұрын

​@@DavidMulliganah now don't be a nipple twister

@tvuser9529

5 ай бұрын

Same, without any carbon across the seam I'd worry about it too - though I expect they have solved it somehow.

Thank you , Ollie. Interesting, and well explained.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

That's Ollie in a nut shell 🙌

Ollie, I’m getting more and more impressed with your videos. TV broadcast quality.

Excellent report. I suggest following up with a ride review on those wheels.

Thanks for another informative and entertaining video, Ollie!

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Inform and entertain... If Ollie had a tattoo that might be it 😂

@richm.3477

5 ай бұрын

@@gcntech Maybe it should be a challenge, such as if a video gets enough likes! Who suggested that tattoo? Alex?

This. Is. Awesome. Ollie-and his stoke-was perfect for this piece!

Alloy rims are 100% recyclable into new alloy rims or beer cans. Most of us don’t need carbon rims.

@Demy1970

5 ай бұрын

Yup, don’t need that fancy stuff anymore, not racing doesn’t matter and over 50

@peglor

5 ай бұрын

Carbon fibre is the corporate bike industry shitting on the idea of bikes being environmentally friendly and selling it like it's an advantage. Pricing them like motorbikes isn't helping either.

@Chris-iv2ud

5 ай бұрын

Nope of us need fancy stuff, but we want. You gotta create something that is fancy enough for rich people to spend their money.

@SuperDodoe

5 ай бұрын

Most people who own bikes also dont ride them

@benoosthuizen4961

5 ай бұрын

Most of us don’t need bikes either!

Very cool tech! Pro job on the video GCN!

Nylon cabon 3D print filament exists and I have used it before personally. It is very lightweight but it's integrity gets affected quite a good amount from UV rays i.e. sunlight. I'd try wheels like this, but not without some form of clear coat or at least 1-2 layers of paint to protect the nylon. These days, general carbon wheels are built extremely well, it really takes quite a lot of force to actually break or fracture a carbon rim or frame, and epoxy is well resistant to UV rays unlike nylon. I'm not saying nylon carbon is worse than traditional methods, there is definitely potential, but selling wheels without adding some paint coats for protection from UV rays concerns me. This would be great though for things like carbon wheels, bottle cages, and other smaller more accessory products.

@BeyReaper

5 ай бұрын

Interesting you say that about the UV sensitivity of the carbon. During the whole video I was wondering how their application could be used for wind turbine blades. Currently, once a wind turbine meets its end of life the typical disposal methods usually destines the blades to the land fill. This aspect of the life span of a wind turbine is under research, mainly different recycling methods, and I was wondering if this sort of tech could be used to replace the current composites used for blades so that they may be recycled better.

@atakdd

5 ай бұрын

@@BeyReaper I think there is potential but my concern is if it’s bare nylon carbon being used vs nylon carbon coated in protective paint/coat. I think there is a use case for it as long as it’s protected.

@mtbkmaniac1

5 ай бұрын

My friend broke so many carbon rims, he had to go back to aluminum.

@___Bebo___

5 ай бұрын

Carbon epoxy cracks after 800 hours of use and has zero protection from UV. That's why all the carbon bikes have the super thick matte paint jobs to protect the frame.

@mudmug1

5 ай бұрын

I came looking for a comment about UV stability. Also curious as to how it manages moisture

Very well presented Ollie. An interesting video

Super interesting! Very well made film, and excellent presentation by Ollie!

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Thank! Where should we send Ollie next? 👀

Very cool! Great job 👏

Are these wheels actually cheaper because of the advantages you've been mentioning? Or does the manufacturer make extra profit this way?

@erikvanderveken1408

5 ай бұрын

Because it is largely a new technology, the price initially will be high to recover R&D and investment costs (machines etc.). But at least in theory, over time when the technology gets more widely adopted, the price will go down.

@meneldil7604

5 ай бұрын

@@erikvanderveken1408 i just looked £2.100

@leonbroekx

5 ай бұрын

@@erikvanderveken1408 I'm looking for a price comparison right now. Not eventually.

@Epiqe

5 ай бұрын

Anything new (such as new material = new product = new machines = new labour personel = new techniques = new training for work = more expensive advertisements etc.etc.etc…

@feedbackzaloop

5 ай бұрын

@@Epiqe new material - cheaper material new product - no comment new machine - old processes ask for new machines all the time too, everything has a lifespan new labor - freed from old work new techniques - same, just replace older new training - a) all workers learn as they work anyway b) new techniques are more automatizes, less learning needed more expensive ads - new product is easier to advertise than anything same but 1% ligher/stiffer/more aero

If you visit this company's website, you will be surprised to find the wheelset price. Despite the claims of saving human labor and production wastes, the MSRP for the gravel wheelset is quite steep.

@gordonhenderson1965

5 ай бұрын

Well of course, cycling is currently regarded as one of the biggest markets of suckers with money out there.

@curtisducati

5 ай бұрын

Another rip off for us all to buy at thousands for a set of rims omg .... So now they want us to buy wheels and carbon with no waste and no human labour ? No jobs then just profit ? Nice pmsl

@andreamig1

5 ай бұрын

@@gordonhenderson1965 Buy all the machinery, build the required molds and make carbon wheels yourself. Do not violate any of the hundreds laws regulating the industry in the process. At the end let us know how much you are going to price the parts you produce...

@lukewinter

5 ай бұрын

Ollie did also spend a reasonable chunk of time discussing how much time, effort, expense, and expertise, went into working out how to make these things though. Much like everything else you've just got to factor in recouping R&D etc

@user-qy8ph8tf3d

5 ай бұрын

@@andreamig1 Why should I be bothered about their machines? If it is more expensive than traditional tech and provides few benefits (like nebulous recyclability), why pay the premium?

Fascinating Ollie ! Nice one ! 👍

Interesting, well made video. Thanks

Awesome video. Thanks Ollie!

@gcntech

3 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

I recently picked up a set of the Bontrager Aeolus Pro37V's using this process. The finish of the wheel is quite nice.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Sounds like a great set of wheels 👌

Dad did a lot of design work with polymers in the telecom industry 80's and 90's he'd come home from trade shows with things like a briefcase full of briefcase handles of different blends, injection molded models of injection molding machines, and for me the star of the show, a glass filled polyamide (nylon) g clamp, truly the king of the thermoplastics.

I ordered Chris Kings for my new bike. Looking forward to delivery.

Great video Ollie, VMT👍

Really awesome video!

I don’t understand how they “weld” together the two rim halves in the mold. I assume that there are further carbon layers overlapped to join the two rim halves, otherwise the finished rim would have no structural integrity. But I cannot make out in the video such a detail in the process.

@BHALT0S

5 ай бұрын

I know a llittle of how such things works, in the traditional way yes, you would need some overlap. in this way the use of nylon squeezed and heated together, will create a bond just as strong, like the guy said, nylon matrix can be reheated over and over with no loss, so it will melt and set in the mould, I know of some Glue's used for bonding CF prop shafts to metal parts within the F1 industry, it's aerospace glue, stinks like fuck... and I mean it's horrible a/f, but in 12hours that glue is stronger than the rest of the carbon fibre part, the carbon would break first before the glue would ever fail. makes you wonder though.... just make components out of the glue alone lol. and they will have used something like FE mapping and real physical world mechanical stress testing to prove the strength of the part (In this case a wheel). so they will be good. the real question is... are they stronger/lighter or same equivalent as traditional layup.... and at least cheaper, seeing as how the process is robotised.

@GHinWI

5 ай бұрын

That was my question too-the way it appeared, there would be a “seam” running along the spoke bed that’s just stuck together with resin and no fiber reinforcement.

@feedbackzaloop

5 ай бұрын

just like in a conventional weld material from two parts mix up, here the ends of carbon strands interlock. Yes, it's not as strong and effective from standpoint of material utilization, but sufficient and surely not presenting a distinct seperation like a glued joint.

Very nice video guys! Something that got missed on the way, or I didnt hesr it, is the increased fracture toughness of an thermoplastic material vs a thermoset material, so you dont have to worry about impacts on the wheel. Nevertheless, thermoplastic material degrade faster over time compared to to thermoset material. I would like to see a wheel made of a material with bought materials combined, like its done in aerospace.

That was really cool. I love how they make it videos

Pretty cool and interesting, also the fact that it appears a lot more environmentally friendly is a big step forward. Would like to know if there is any perceivable performance / feel difference between traditional pre-preg and these modern forged components

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

The eco credentials are super cool 🙌 Would that make you want to buy that product?

@The_Ballo

5 ай бұрын

Environmentally friendly how?

@nebux

5 ай бұрын

@@The_Ballo The video covers it but mainly on 2 axis. On one side, the pieces can be re-molded into something else, meaning if your frame breaks, it could potentially be recycled and turned into another item, whereas tradional carbon fiber is disposed of in the trash. Second, the overall making of the parts seems to be much less energy consuming - the video doesn't go much into detail here but notice how with epoxy carbon the storage is a freezer, later an oven, etc.

Thank you for actually showing the manufacturing this time.

Ollie Im very surprised with your knowledge explanation! top! Merci!

@oliverbridgewood3929

5 ай бұрын

j’ai etudie les polymeres a l’universitie 👍🏼

What happened to the last future - grapheme?

finally some good video from GCN!

American-made wheels is certainly attractive to me (and almost unheard of.) Hopefully Forge & Bond will expand to road wheels at some point and hopefully lower prices over time as they sell more wheels.

@brianwright9514

5 ай бұрын

They seem to be sold through Chris King.

@kidsafe

5 ай бұрын

If you notice in the video, there is a Trek/Bontrager Aeolus road wheel being made. Specifically the Aeolus Pro 37V and 49V for now.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

Super cool to have bike parts made close to home 🙌 Do you think you'll be picking yourself up some Forge & Bond wheels?

brilliant stuff!

Best episode of ‘how it’s made’ yet! Well done oli!

Great video but you missed the details of key stage. How are the two sides bonded together. That for me is the most critical as it has the spoke forces applied there and could catastrophically separate the join failed.

@HaxR3

5 ай бұрын

I'd imagine there's a reasonably sized overlap down the center: so the spoke nipples would go through both the left and right side of the rim and the 'bonded area' would be wider than the nipples. So the rim bed would be "double thickess" and the two seams not in contact with the holes. The great thing about using thermoplastic for the matrix is it how can be fully melted again and again, so to answer your question, the two halves are likely joined in a process that would be a sort of combination of compression molding and conventional casting/drop forging. With resin carbon you have the matrix starting as liquid, then compress and cure it, with thermoplastic you heat the material whenever you need to, to make the matrix into a liquid temporarily.

Great video Ollie.

I think this new nylon composite material could also have very good application in bike shoe soles and saddle bases, where it is very useful for the end user to be able to custom mold to their liking. I wonder if this is the technology also licensed by Lemond bikes.

@WordupG

5 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, you can do this with FusionFiber! Just heat it up to 300 degrees then stand on it for a few mins as it cools. Eventually, you’re left with a perfect form of your incinerated stubs where feet used to be. Very comfortable on the bike once the wounds heal.

Love this. Thanks for doing this video. Any idea when frames will start being made of Fusion Fiber? Also, did they tell you the cost difference between Fusion Fiber and the equivalent pre-preg carbon fiber? Thanks!

@GoDownTheHill

5 ай бұрын

Guerrilla Gravity was making frames with the same material

@the.communist

4 ай бұрын

If this is a cheaper way of manufacturing carbon, the industry will adopt it in no time since he industry loves lacking on the manufacturing process but charging you more for the priviledge.

For the sake of accuracy, (and definitely, 100%, not pedantry), usually, reinforced concrete is a mix of cement, sand, and aggregate, (i.e. stone of varying sizes), forming a matrix surrounding steel reinforcing bars (But there are other ways of making reinforced concrete.)

One thing I saw on their website - no rider weight limit. The price is not that bad for a nice set of Carbon wheels. Looks like they only come made with I9 hubs, so kinda crappy I can't customize what hubs I want (I'm partial to DT Swiss) but having it all be USA made, that's worth paying extra for me.

@bradleycyr

3 ай бұрын

RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-*yelling* "why don't you like I9 hubs?-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT

Ollie, you didn’t say what city they were in but Utah is where I live and I bet you were within a 100 miles of my home town. Utah is a great place you should come back and ride here. Hope you had a great visit.

Utah is AWESOME! There are some great cycling races here! Tour of Utah, Kokopelli Relay, & Salt to Saint, to just name a few! We have very safe cycling trails up and down the Wasatch Front (Ogden to Provo). With our population boom over the last 10-15+years, Salt Lake City is incorporating more bike and pedestrian infrastructure as road improvements are made. Aerospace businesses run deep in Utah as well.

One thing worth noting on the thermoplastic matrix materials is they do require more infrastructure than thermosetting resins. Room-temperature epoxy resins can be used to laminate parts with no other machines. If you want better consolidation then you need a vacuum pump. Prepregs add the requirement of an oven. In order for the thermoplastic composite to come out well it has to be autoclaved. The nylon never gets nearly as thin as epoxy resin, so you need more pressure to force it to flow.

Thanks Dr. O and crew....was it hot in there ? Loud and smelly ? I used to work in plastics manufacturing , using injection molds and ultrasonic welds , and it was HAWT !

Welcome to my neck of the woods. Hope you got to do some riding while you were in Utah. It’s an amazing place.

Curious how the weight compares to high end pre-preg?

Very cool I’m sure in 10 years they’ll have a even better process 🙌🏻

I wonder how well this process works with core materials. My two concerns would be 1.the high heat and pressure requirements may eliminate the possibility for lower density and non-temperature stable cores. Ironically eliminating things like thermoplastic foams/honeycombs. 2.the matrix material may not have the appropriate fluid properties to adhere well to something like al/nomex honeycomb. Thermosetting resins can bond well to the small contact area because they spontaneously form "fillets" due to their adhesion and surface tension and I suspect molten nylon is a bit too thick.

Ollie went super saiyan with his hair style for this one.

The carbon footprint of traditional carbon fibre is insanely high and we should all be aware of that when we buy a new bike (I’d suggest it should be labelled on the bike and certain components, on purchase, the carbon footprint print and a score for how easy it is to recycle) . It’s good we’ve developed a process which is less intensive. Still happy with my alu rims and Reynolds steel frame though, but I’m not looking for marginal gains and appreciate it’s a different scenario if you race.

@DB-sj8km

5 ай бұрын

Titanium leads the way.

The reinforced concrete you referred to is concrete (not cement) with the addition of steel to reinforce it, used in tall buildings, bridges etc, the cement you referred to is only one of the components used to make concrete, concrete is made up of sand, cement, aggregate and water, this version of concrete is used in non critical applications such as sidewalks etc, so concrete itself is a composite material, reinforced concrete is a more advanced composite material

In practice, recycling is still really tough and probably not economically viable except rapid downcycling. If you want to preserve fiber length then you kind of have to carefully pick the pieces apart and sort them by fiber length. The more common approach is to basically put the part in a blender and melt it down into a short-fiber reinforced nylon, which has applications but is not nearly the same thing as continuous fiber composite.

This is awesome content. It's crazy that in the last 2 years, KZread top-end content has reached where cable network content was in the 2000s, quality-wise. I guess there was a convergence of price for equipment going down and general self-taught understanding of how to make content going up.

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

We're always trying to push our content 🙌 Great to know that you are seeing the improvements - Can you think of any other factories you would like us to visit?

@waynemorris2249

5 ай бұрын

⁠@@gcntech3T

Welcome to Utah. I think you will find that Utah is home to a huge amount of bicycling industries in a spectrum of aspects of cycling. Great segment Oli! I am one of those anti carbon old school curmudgeons that thinks carbon bikes are soul-less and a blight on cycling, But this was really cool because of the recyclable aspects. Don't get me wrong there is a place for carbon bikes and bike products but I hope to see a return to more traditional materials but used in a way that takes advantage of modern manufacturing processes. I think there is a solid place for the Forge & Bond products. PS. When are you and GCN going to come to Ogden Utah and do a story about the hidden / secret mecca of the cycling world? You can stay at my house. Cheers - M

@gcntech

5 ай бұрын

We also love a steel bike but you can't not enjoy the process of making these carbon beauties 👀 We've been doing some great riding around the states, El Tour de Tucson was amazing 👉 kzread.info/dash/bejne/em2N0dWthryqZJM.html 🙌 - What do you love about the riding in Utah?

@markpeterson8978

5 ай бұрын

I Love the variety of terrane that is locally available@@gcntech. Utah is special in that there is a huge amount of wickedly different environments and riding conditions.. The local trails are spectacular specifically Skyline Trail This trail transverses the front ranges peaks giving a world class riding and adventure experience with views to die for. Ogden, specifically, is growing with outdoor specific companies & is creating a community that is extremely active and loves all kinds of adventures. The local amenities have radically changed over the last 20 years with the addition to many top shelf restaurants and small cafes. In down town Ogden you can go rock climbing then Surf a stationary wavy then go indoor skydiving, all in the same building. GCN should come to Ogden and do a series of shows highlighting the marvelous journeys that are available. Great show Boys! I watch GCN religiously. Amen & Cheers - M

interesting seeing aeolus branding on the tooling - looks like they produce bontragers "oclv next" Not surprisingly the construction is only possible for hookless. Also as someone also noted it's also a bit heavier than resin which will increase weight on the outer wheel - I'm not quite sold.

@appa609

5 ай бұрын

I see no reason it couldn't be made to work on a hooked rim. In fact, this materials seems to permit processes that make hook forming easier.

Strength testing? Failure modes compared to regular carbon fiber methods?

Very cool new tech - hopefully in the future the cost will come down, much like most new things in the bike industry you will need to mortgage your house to get a pair of these.

Great tour. Nylons are much softer than epoxies, or typically have been. It would seem these wheels would require a thicker layup of material, hence weight would rise ? One cost saving step that was evident, the final molds seem to run at much lower pressure than what happens in a traditional molding process, hence the molds are much lower cost . Is this the case ? Or are the molds in the traditional process also relatively low pressure ?

@RebelPolo5

5 ай бұрын

Pressure shouldn't really be a concern for the molds, even aerospace parts are commonly made on aluminium molds. So within the realm of pressures used to make a wheel that's probably not a big cost-saver. Being able to weld the two halves together rather than create single piece in one mold may save on mold cost by reducing complexity on the machining end though

That's some solid VaultTec (c) autoclave door.

That boy is in his element

0:08 for anyone confused, "noughties" probably refers to the decade of the "aughts", i.e. the 00s, more specifically the 2000s

Great looking rims. Are the wires holding the rim also carbon fiber or steel?

What's the price, weight and performance difference?

@trwilliams22

5 ай бұрын

Look at ENVE and Chris King wheels as they are using these rims.

@exceptionvideo

5 ай бұрын

Website says gravel rims are $425, 380 grams, and "No rider weight limit". Same for XC, and I didn't look at the other MTB.

@exceptionvideo

5 ай бұрын

@@trwilliams22 Also, Revel. I found some 4 year old videos about them.

Nice advertisement for the sophisticated machines of the German company Dieffenbacher 😉

So no good for us rim brake folk then. Brake tracks can get up to 250 degrees and would melt this nylon!

Super interesting.

This factory is really well set up. Way more automated than the facility where I worked.

the bonding part of the build is intresting as it slightly melts the materials so that they bond (stick together) & become one part, although i think these processes & materials will be replaced with graphine as we will begin to experiment & see new ways & products being made.

@appa609

5 ай бұрын

That might be an independent development. I see no reason you couldn't mix graphene oxide into nylon.

Just bought the Chris King GRD23 wheelset using the Fusion Fiber, personally I think its just a marketing gimmick and 99% of riders wont notice the difference. But they do look very very cool.

I'm just wondering what kind of resin Ollie uses to keep his hairdo in place?

Aeolus? Are these Bontrager wheels?

@ojtibi9906

5 ай бұрын

EDIT: Ollie mentioned Trek at the end, so yes.

@atgnicyclist

5 ай бұрын

@@ojtibi9906 damn! Bontrager got some serious tech in their wheels that no others have!

I'm guessing this nylon matrix wouldn't stand up to temperatures generated by rim brakes. Particularly since I did not see any evidence of brake tracks on the edges of the rims.

@curtisducati

5 ай бұрын

Rim breaks are doomed , BUT , disc brakes are ripping the spokes through the rims and causing huge cracks from one spoke to the next on most bikes but there keeping that out the press and media ? Have 3 friends with cracked rims ? Discs cause the breaking forces to use the spokes not the rim so spokes can't take the forces and ruin the rims ? Not good but all kept quite .........

@DaveCM

5 ай бұрын

Especially given traditional carbon rims have failed under heavy rim breaking.

@___Bebo___

5 ай бұрын

Rim brakes are not doomed, I have enough medium and long reach calipers to last the rest of my life. Even if the bike industry tries to force me onto cheaper tech they won't be able to.

@peglor

5 ай бұрын

​@@curtisducati What's even more scary is that on my MTB's, for which there's no question that disks are better (At least for anyone who rides in mud), I'm still getting failures where the rim cracks from spoke to spoke, and this was on Hope XC wheels - after the second failure, rather than bothering warrantying it again I just replaced the rim with a WTB one that had the same ERD and that's been perfect since though. I've had a load of trials bike rims fail like this too, but trials is the only MTB sport where rim brakes are more popular at professional level than disks, so the rims aren't necessarily tested to withstand disk braking forces. Trials riders grind the braking surface of the rim with an angle grinder to make it as rough as possible, so the brake locks 100% solid, but this means it howls very loudly when the brake is dragged while rolling, which is why I'll stay with my nearly silent disks instead.

@jeffv.1743

5 ай бұрын

What's a rim brake?

Really interesting.

The machine that works the carbon roll. Looks like the computer from the 1960's TV show, Joe 90. When I saw that machine. I even heard the Joe 90 theme in my head.

wonderful technology, but we need to know more specific about the rim like, strength, weight and useful for what types of bikes.

The most important questions, is it light? Is it stiff? Is it strong?

@The_Ballo

5 ай бұрын

You forgot the more important question: is it UV stabilized. Nylon doesn't fare well in the sun. Neither does resin, but nylon less so.

@MarkAspen_

5 ай бұрын

@@The_Ballo That color takes more sun energy in.

@MarkAspen_

5 ай бұрын

11:20 - he bends it easily with his hands.

Just curious - is Nylon repairable as carbon? Can it get the same properties after repair, as carbon?

@HaxR3

5 ай бұрын

Theoretically more repairable: the comparison isn't nylon vs carbon, it's nylon vs epoxy. Epoxy sets once and forever, so to repair you have to sand it back and rely on the new epoxy sticking to it. Nylon however, you could melt and reform a dozen times and it'd be just as strong as it was before. Practically less repairable: unless you can get hold of an exact aluminium/steel 3D negative mold of your wheel, any rework is likely to distort it massively, as you need to heat it to 250C to get it to flow properly and bond well, the problem with that is you'd be making the rest of the wheel soft at the same time!

GO Ollie GO !!!!

While you were there, did you also film a segment of actually riding in Utah? would love to see that

14:48 I have questions... If you've chopped up the composite for recycling then presumably you no longer have long continuous fibres going through the recycled material, and therefore less tensile/ bending strength. This might be OK for something like a tyre lever where the forces on it are not huge (and it's not safety-critical) but how does that work for something like a stem, subjected to large stresses?

@HaxR3

5 ай бұрын

I'd imagine it would be similar to 'forged carbon' parts where short (4-20mm) 'flakes' of chopped roving are compression molded into solid chunks, then conventially machined (lathe or mill) into their final form. Forged carbon is sometimes called "black aluminium" as it's strength is anisotropic (same in all directions unlike an 'aligned' composite layup), and very similar in strength to weight ratio when compared to a high end heat treated alu alloy. Basically, a recycled composite carbon stem made with carbon fusion could be made with the all the same dimensions as an alloy one, and would perform almost identically. The main benefit would be you could add an alligned layup within the recycled mix: e.g. a few layers of virgin unidirectional material in the axis you want the most stiffness.

13:45 This is the absolutely hardest maintenance task to do on a bike. I expected this specific task to be done by a machine. I would rather work in a mine than straightening bike wheels.

how do these compare in terms of weight and cost compared to other carbon wheels?

Another great video done by Dr Ollie, thank yu for doing this. I love these factory tours, and how many products are made. But I was alarmed(hope I am wrong). But how Ollie was touching all the carbon fiber bits that was about to become someone's wheel set without gloves on, I noticed that all the other workers in the plant had gloves on but Ollie did not.. Was he contaminating those fiber wheels with his own body oils dead skin and human hairs.. I hope not..

Now let’s discuss weights and how deep the wheels can be made. And how wide internal width too - aero gravel please

Very interesting. How are the fibers oriented? Are they long or short pieces. How can the (very stiff) carbon be molded?

@HaxR3

5 ай бұрын

Carbon is only stiff because you basically can't stretch the fibres, raw carbon basically acts like cloth as is actually supplied on rolls like a carpet. The stiffness comes from constraining it. Imagine pulling a loop of thread over the tip of your finger, then holding it taught against either side of your first knuckle: if you bend your finger the top side of the string pulls tight and presses against your knuckles. In this case, the carbon is already enveloped in the constraining material, but when you melt it, it can move freely.

This was cool.

I really like the recyclable aspect of this tech. I really wonder if there can some wind energy application to the composite bodies of a turbine blade. Definitely need to bring this up to my professors when I meet with them. However, the high cost of these wheels, ~$2200, will be hard to adopt them into the mainstream cycling community, which the adoption of these wheels is arguably what this tech needs to be more widely available. I get that these wheels are almost certainty a small fraction of Forge & Bond's profit but when there are other wheels to buy for MUCH cheaper it makes it a hard sell. Now if someone is looking for wheels around that price point, they may be on that person's consideration list. I'm mainly wondering where the cost savings on the reduced labor is shown in the price. I understand that expensive machines have to be paid for, but my point has to do with the selling point of the reduced labor cost = lower cost wheels.

@RebelPolo5

5 ай бұрын

Not likely to be seen on something the size of a wind turbine blade just yet--nylon is more susceptible to the elements (mostly water) and thermoplastic composites are for the time being heavier than their thermoset counterparts. A small weight penalty really adds up over the size of something like a wind turbine blade or an aircraft component. As these things always do, the price will come down with time, competition, and improvement to the technology. As Ollie suggests, the principal is probably extremely high for that kind of setup so the prices won't come down until they've amortized their investment

@appa609

5 ай бұрын

The wind industry requires composite material on a scale that cannot be supplied by the offcuts of even the rest of the world's composite manufacturing. The bike industry is a flea by comparison. Wind turbine blades are also normally made by resin infusion. I shudder to imagine the cost of building a press and mould capable of making it out of thermoplastic composite.