ALSO today, I got the Google Coral TPU working, woohoo! Details here: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/pcie-coral-tpu-finally-works-on-raspberry-pi-5 And please note Pineberry Pi *also* sells the HatDrive! Bottom, a 2280-version of the board that slides just underneath the Pi 5. I didn't show it set up in this video but it's a really neat board that works with even more NVMe SSDs!

@greglawson9729

5 ай бұрын

Why would the Pi imager software not allow changing of settings?

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

@@greglawson9729It does; once you select an OS that allows settings to be modified it pops up the gear icon.

@greglawson9729

5 ай бұрын

Stopped doing that all together @@JeffGeerling

@dv7533

5 ай бұрын

that Bottom version seems interesting, I kind of want to combine it with an Intel Optane SSD and see what the performance is with the low latency and high IOps.

@user-tl7df2tn9l

5 ай бұрын

they should have just added the plug and play NVME slot so we as a customers do not need to modifying / buying an extra device just for a storage slot.

I have a set of ESD tweezers for various things. They come in really handy for those ribbon cables. I mostly use it for building keyboards, but they're invaluable however you use them.

I’m hoping to see a dual NVMe hat with a PCIe switch at some point so I can run two drives in raid 1, but I’m not sure how well that would work with only one lane

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

I have been asking about this-it'd be nice for RAID 1 / RAIDZ1 for a little NAS... right now it would not support any kind of boot through the PCIe switch but that's not as big a deal for most of us who just want multiple storage devices! I think one or two makers will come up with solutions, so stay tuned!

@ChrisModjeska

5 ай бұрын

@@JeffGeerling There are PCI-e scheduler/multiplexer chips that IIRC work pretty well for storage. I have a mobo with one and it worked pretty well with only a very small increase in latency.

@DK-vids

5 ай бұрын

@@ChrisModjeska @JeffGeerling thats what i want to see too, any of those non-bifurcation boards with a 2-4 M.2 slots and a ASMedia ASM2806/ASM2812/ASM2824 or Broadcom/PLX PEX 8712/8724 chip with pcie adapters on the M.2 slots so they can be broken out to a handful of pcie devices. open questions are drivers and power availability tho

@Destructificial

5 ай бұрын

You know what would be even better? A HAT with a *real* PCIe connector, so you can just plug in whatever you want! 10Gb networking, video card? Sure!

@ZeroX252

5 ай бұрын

@@Destructificial The issue there is that it's a x1 interface.

Ooh, fancy! Getting a Pi 5 next week, this will be useful. Also happy to see that they make them locally here in Poland!

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Gotta go fast!

@rysieko

13 күн бұрын

Joo, a guy from poland, Polska gurom

Thanks Jeff. Just installed this on my Pi 5 - After watching this review. Awesome. Thanks for the advice.

Great to see this Jeff -- some impressive results.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I can't wait to see if someone makes a few other HATs to make an even more compact, fast little NAS box for the Pi!

Really cool Jeff, really liked your delivery and detail. Thanks

Thanks, was looking for this

Just got my HatDrive! Bottom, and tested installing and booting from NVME and it works!

I think the HatDrive!Top could do with a big square hole in the board where the NVMe goes so that air from the CPU fan below can blow upwards and cool the bottom of the NVMe drive that's screwed in on top.

@ChrisModjeska

5 ай бұрын

I thought the same thing! Great idea! I believe the fan pulls in air from the top, which is even better.

@DevonsWorkshop

5 ай бұрын

The stock active cooler blows down.

@arturkustusch1379

5 ай бұрын

Excellent idea, fan doesn't have to blow up though, blowing down will pull air from the top around SSD down to CPU heatsink below.

@davidvr2479

5 ай бұрын

And wouldn't it be easier to put the NVMe board underneath?

@user-vf1bo3tg1l

4 ай бұрын

the fan blows hot air, it won't cool but heat the ssd i think

Sweet. Nice work as always thanks for the video.

Just got my 5 in Romania, I alerady put it to work, replacing my 4 mini server. Nice work with your video!

looking forward to the PCI testing video! Love this content

Finally, was waiting for this video for weeks! Thank you.

the PCB where they printed the logo is doing nothing (has no components on either side) and is just in the way for airflow. I understand a big logo is cool but please remove that part in the production model

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Having a ground plane there may or may not affect things, but I agree, a future revision of this board could have some more opportunities for airflow (maybe even an integrated space for a fan, or a 3D printed duct!)

@CyberdeckCafe

5 ай бұрын

Future versions hopefully will just be the m.2 edge slot and cable that goes to the pi. We don't need a whole card taking up space.

@Danrarbc

5 ай бұрын

@@CyberdeckCafe The M.2 hold down is usually pretty important though.

@awwastor

5 ай бұрын

ehhh it’s a hat, it uses the rest of the pcb as construction material to attach properly. Making it in a non standard (non rectangular) shape would be expensive

@immatys

5 ай бұрын

​@@awwastor totally agree with you. It's a hat. That's how a hat looks like.

Awesome video! Thanks for this. I will order it.

Hi @JeffGeerling, thanks for using the MakerDisk NVMe SSD! Great review!

Thanks Jeff always informative!

Bloody brilliant! 👌 👌👌👌 Thanks for bringing this to us!

Good stuff. Someone will start making cases to fit the HATs and the fan in etc

awesome! :) Thanks for sharing :) now i want the pi5 even more :)

Just ordered the bottom version. Got an “old” Samsung 950 pro lying around that will fit my pi 5 and this perfectly!

Thank you for pushing the technology along so that it is useable by the rest of us, who are not so clued up in this Tech.

Just wondering if you could just flip the bottom standoffs upside down on the Pi case (using screws through the bottom) and then the next standoffs would screw down on the Pi itself. Nice video, glad to see this capability finally.

I don't love that the new PCI-E connector is in basically the same place and a similar shape to where the DSI connector used to be, but other than that, it's pretty neat to see PCI-E on the Pi. Interested to see what new devices people can connect and use, over time.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Agreed on both accounts! FFC connectors are not the easiest to work with, either.

@danielpicassomunoz2752

5 ай бұрын

Isn't m.2 basically a pcie slot? If so, why didn't the just use that?

@peepopalaber

5 ай бұрын

space on the board @@danielpicassomunoz2752

@dansummers2965

5 ай бұрын

@@danielpicassomunoz2752 I _presume_ because they couldn't find the space on the Pi mainboard for a pcie slot - the FFC connector they used instead is a quarter of the size or less, and the Pi mainboard is very dense. But, I don't know. Typical M.2 storage deployments, though, are parallel to the board whereas pcie slots are perpendicular. So integrating an M.2 connector would mean either an SSD sticking out the side (bad) or an SSD overlapping most of the chips and passives on the board and maybe colliding with the USB and Ethernet ports (worse).

@FeuerToifel

5 ай бұрын

@@dansummers2965 i think the main reason is so you have more options on what you connect to pcie. if it would be M.2 on board, you are limited to that. sure, there are adapters to turn M.2 into pretty much anything else too. but i think the FFC connector was the best option bet to give the most versatility.

7:27 "You might need to go in and out a couple times..." ~ Jeff Geerling 2023 I expect a fancy dinner first, Mr. Geerling

Hello Jeff and thank you for your great work on Rasp pi's and tech in general. I'm so excited about the new pi5, i would love to see if the pi5 is capable of external GPU connection, how does it fit on gaming and emulation, also handheld gaming in particular. I always wanted to ''build'' a rasp pi tablet, but i was waiting for the pi to evolve more and get more powerful, so now i think it's about time for me to go on with this project.

Thank you for this video!

this is nice.. thnx for the info .

It's a shame they decided to go with the proprietary (?) ribbon connector rather than adding an m.2 slot to the Pi5. The ribbon might be a good (though not necessarily better) solution to connect oddball components, but I'd expect more people would use an m.2.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Can't disagree there! Their reasoning was it would add too much cost to fit an M.2 slot somewhere on the board (and probably require more layers on the PCB), but hopefully it happens someday.

@goblinslayer5404

5 ай бұрын

sure, if they were able to fit an m.2 slot on the board without making it bigger that would've been nice, if they weren't able to do that then they made the right choice

@jfolz

5 ай бұрын

@@goblinslayer5404 keeping in mind that I know nothing about electronics or board design, it certainly looks like a 2230 SSD would fit on top if you moved the heat-generating components out of the way. Maybe specify single-sided only if something needs to be mounted underneath it. At least there was enough space for a functionless resistor that tells you how much RAM is installed. It's an odd choice to have 2 HDMI _and_ 2 MIPI connectors, but not a single built-in option for reliable storage.

@taomicioli

5 ай бұрын

@@goblinslayer5404 orange pi 5 has a m.2 on the bottom of the board

I pre ordered a complete pi 5 kit i can now confirm I'm very hyped for it maybe nvme drives will be fully integrated by the time it arrives

That's super awesome. I might have to pick one of the bottom ones to see if I can run the RPi over PoE using the PoE hat and the bottom NVMe board. Power might be an issue, but if I can possibly PoE something, I'm certainly going to try.

Great video 👍 I'm testing for the last few days RPi5 with NVMe Base from Pimoroni with M.2 SSD 256GB. All works great, thanks to your guidance Jeff, I can do so much more with my RPi5 😀👍

Yes... I've been patiently waiting for more pi5 content! Why isn't there a built in boot editor in the bios? At this point they really need to have it on by default to at least try sd first then other drives.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Honestly I'd love to see UEFI native on Pi, someday... we can dream...

So great combination. Good job🎉🎉

Thanks again! What was the difference in boot time? Also in general use where do notice this extra speed the most?

Why the 'sudo curl'? Shouldn't 'curl | sudo bash' suffice?

The waveshare cm4 carrier board ( cm4-io-base-a / b ) has an nvme slot. It works really nice! The nvme slot is on the bottom which doesn't stand in the way of coolers or heatsinks on the top.

I know it's not the same thing as using direct PCIe to a hat but I've been using NVMe with Pi 4 in an Argon One case. They have two models that take Sata or NVMe in the bottom of the case and then use a USB 3 jumper on the back. It works very well. I have a few of them deployed.

Wow. I just read about those NVME hat and bottoms yesterday and put off ordering them until I saw a review. VERY TIMELY!!!

@johnq.public2621

3 ай бұрын

Please let us know how they are working out for you.

@techadsr

3 ай бұрын

@@johnq.public2621 my RPi5 arrives in another month or so. Seems the original 2024 RPi5 dates reported a year ago were right. Only early eval deliveries happened last year. Now pre-orders are quite backlogged.

@techadsr

3 ай бұрын

​@@johnq.public2621seems RPi5 can be ordered for overnight delivery is you're willing to pay a $50 premium. Could that be why pre-orders for $80 are out of stock?

@techadsr

2 ай бұрын

@@johnq.public2621 @JeffGeerling Finally received my RPi5. My experience with the Pineberry Hat using an inland TN325 1TB all mounted in the topless (see point 3 below) official RPi5 case is similar to Jeff's. The inland seems to be slightly faster than the one Jeff used. I haven't stressed it much while it's been in the case without the top but cpu temp seems to stay under 60C, ranging from 54C - 58C. Downside 1a: In order to change the nvme drive, the Pineberry hat must be unscrewed from the standoffs since the nvme retaining screw is inaccessible between RPi5 and the hat. Pineberry did not provide short enough screws that would allow attaching the the brass retaining nut from the bottom such that the nvme drive could be screwed down from the top. Somehow, Jeff was able to screw his drive down from the top. I would have had the screw sticking up by many threads and not holding the nvme drive down tightly. Downside 1b: If the GPIO extender in installed, it's a pita to disassemble in order to change the nvme drive. I noticed a few reviews showing the hat being installed without the GPIO extender but none with it. Downside 2: Neither Raspberry Pi nor Pineberry include longer screws to secure the standoffs from the bottom of the case. If the standoffs are screwed on with the Pineberry supplied short screws, then it doesn't fit in the case. Downside 3: The Pi case snap-in top rests on top of the Pineberry hat board instead of sliding down on the four corners. A rubber band can hold it on though. 🩹 There are traces on the Pineberry Hat that connect a few GPIO pins to the rest of the board. IIRC, one was power but I thought power was delivered through the FPC. The Pineberry bottom testing will need to wait until I find a case that can house it and the official Raspberry Pi PoE hat comes out.

Love your work.

Nice. Ordered a HatDrive! Bottom. It would be real nice now if Pimoroni would ship the Pi5 that was supposed to go out at the end of October.

As much as i love the Raspberry Pi 5, i feel like theres still a lot of missed opportunities here when it comes to NVMe support. Or power management, for that matter- I had to previously scrap a project because of how little power you can actually feed to the Pi.

@JohnDoe-bd5sz

5 ай бұрын

I agree, why did they not just scrap the SDCard and put a NVME connector on the board itself. It is still a hazzle to get a Pi with a PoE and "Something other than SDCard" into a nice small package that can actually run solely off of PoE. Lets hope they ditch the SDCard in Rpi 6, i think i will just keep my 4b right now, it does what it is supposed to, but with a USB connected SSD sadly.

@LasseBuck

5 ай бұрын

@@JohnDoe-bd5sz I SO agree - they missed an obvious opportunity here. Hopefully, they will get it right in RP 6

@OliM9595

3 ай бұрын

@@JohnDoe-bd5sz they keep the SD card for education reasons. Schools can't afford those NVMe drives, even though they have got a lot cheaper. Not all projects require a fast and reliable drive. SD card is plenty for many people. Losing that option would be a shame,

Cool, thanks.

Ordered!! Poland to Italy without problem!!

Thank you sir!

Thanks Jeff

Good to see they are finally catching up 👌🏼

I hope Pi 6 goes with a different setup on GPIO. I would really like to see it as a sideways-angled connector so coolers and access to the board aren't restricted by HATs.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Not a bad idea; I've used 90° angled adapters for GPIO before, it would be nice to have that out of the way for many builds.

@vinniemoscaritolo3318

5 ай бұрын

How about this, make the plated it through holes again. Or offer the GPIO at the bottom - In my car radio project, I had to Tear out the GPO connector and flip it around so that I could call the raspberry pi 4 properly - Until they understand that the GPIO cannot be in the same direction as the fan The raspberry pie is not a viable industrial platform

@jyvben1520

5 ай бұрын

@@vinniemoscaritolo3318 viable industrial platform, which is why they have the compute modules

@CyberDunk2077

5 ай бұрын

They must be developing the PI 6 now considering how long the PI 5 was in the oven. 90 degree header would make soo many other project ideas possible. You can buy a 40 pin 90 degree header and fit it yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. I got one fitted to my PI Zero 2 W.

@timseguine2

5 ай бұрын

@@vinniemoscaritolo3318 Ah yes, "not a viable industrial platform", which is why the raspberry pi is widely used as an industrial platform...

@JeffGeerling that hat and a M.2 to six SATA port adapter for a nice little RAID NAS setup looks tempting

Wow, I had my Raspberry Pi running off an M.2 NVMe for quite a while. Several years ago I bought an Argon One M.2 Adapter and what a difference it made.

Spectacular work from the pi community!!

Thanks for this, based on your review I've ordered a Pineberry Pi Bottom for the pi5's I just ordered along with the active cooler. Only issue is that I can't find any cases that would have clearance for it + the active cooloer... Any suggestions?

I hope they work out the board layout in the next version for a proper connector.

I have a longer nvme drive in a metal case, plugged into the usb port on my Pi 5. I boot from that. I will consider that hat in the future though, it looks like a good solution.

teşekkürler Jeff

I'm excited to get my first 5 and how I'm going to have to get the HatDrive Bottom to go with it. It would be nice if you could use both at the same time 1 for boot and 1 for storage, but I guess if you really just want a separate boot drive you're stuck with the MicroSD card for now.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Yeah; hopefully they can get a board with a PCIe switch, and have two NVMe on one adapter!

All my Pis use an M.2 SSD to USB drive with the Argon One M.2 case. Fantastic solution! Very compact with great cooling. Will be interesting to test this against an SSD to see what real world benefits there are.

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

Argon One M.2 is the best solution for Pi 4, I am currently running two of them :) This should be a little faster at default Gen 2 speeds, mostly in the latency (USB to NVMe or SATA causes a little loss there), but a lot faster if you bump to Gen 3 speeds!

@maxgood42

5 ай бұрын

@@JeffGeerling I wonder what Argon40 will be making now...?

@apveening

5 ай бұрын

@@maxgood42 At a first guess, they will make Pi 5 cases with an M.2 bottom where you can use that FFC (completely internally to the assembled case), leaving all USB ports free.

@maxgood42

5 ай бұрын

@@apveening And then the Pi 5 NAS GOD.

@mattivirta

5 ай бұрын

argon case has tested and many other have lot worst than better ice tower but whit ice tower nt can use any HAT on board. and not have many case what can use. need plan and 3D print own case and all peoples not have printer.

You just know that Jeff's going to try to put a 4090 with the 2280 one 👀 It's amazing to hear that finally the SSDs are finally getting some love! Amazing video as always.

Just ordere a RasPi5, gonna try the passive aluminium cooler-case. Went for an "endurance" sd-card for now. Dont know if it'll boot from usb-sata, dont really care for speed but have some usb3/2.5" sata cases.

Hi Jeff, Great channel. I'm a newbie afraid, got to start somewhere. I have a pi5 8 gig plus pi's own cooling fan and I just bought the nvme base unit from Pimoroni and I've put it all together and now it's just waiting for an nvme board but what to get. The market is flooded with them but I just want something that will utilise the Pi's full potential. I'm not a gamer as yet, what would you suggest please a 250,500 or 1tb gig board running at say p3,p4 or p5. Many thanks again for a very informative channel.

Another excellent & informative video. Your content always provides food for thought 🤔. Personally, I think it's great that you are constantly testing the boundary of what is possible. Keep up the good work Jeff. 👍

the card with the ssd would be better mounted at the bottom with a thermal pad or a small heatsink. because with the direct heat of the fan it could overheat. further tests would be needed on this matter.

I have NVMe with a couple of my RPi Compute Module 4

this brings me closer to my raspberry pi 5 tablet project, awesome! Kind of annoying since i already bought a full size SSD, but i guess i could make it all fit in a 3d printed case

@alvallac2171

5 ай бұрын

*This *Raspberry Pi *project. Awesome! *I (this word should always be capitalized) *case.

That's pretty interesting - I have a spare NVME so this might be a good purchase for my newly-arrived PI 5... once I work out what I'm actually going to use the Pi 5 for :D

Pretty sweet! My first pi5 is in the mail. Be nice to retire my usb nvme drives and get some real speeds off them. Now I just need 5x pi5 w/ the poe hat and the nvme board and i'll be happy till pi 6 comes out :)

Im very curious about boot times with this. I have an openauto project in mind and want the boot time as fast as possible

Just spied a Mikrotik switch in that rack. Solid choice. They have seriously stepped up their game in the last few years, and no home labber should be without one or more!

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

I love the value of Mikrotik's gear. So much hardware for so little cash!

Oh yeah we've all been waiting for this

Glad to see you’re using the current Internet Protocol to connect to your equipment - well, via Link-local, but that’s a start

Where can I find a case, for the Pine berry bottom & a Pi5 active cooler ? I am not opposed to the layered acrylic cases . Do you have a list of retailers, for the case, bottom hat & active cooling fan ? Thx !

im new to R pi - i bought a pi 5 , was planning to run a node could i use this hat and connect a 2tb nvme would that set up work- nice clear helpful video .

Love my Klein 32314 14 in 1 screwdriver. Good choice.

Thank you for your video very interesting! If it possible to get Home Assistant onto a Pi5 as I see no options for it only for a Pi4 and if so do you know how I can do it, please? Thanks!

It’s nice that Raspberry Pi has updated their imager to update the eeprom now. No need to edit, after imaging the NVME the Pi Imager Software has a pop-up that says you can remove the SD Card. Imager my Crucial P3 last night from within Pi OS. Nice to see Raspberry Pi supporting NVME natively.

I ordered the bottom unit last night… even with VERY little information available about it. I was hoping to see it being trialed. GRANTED, neither of the two Pi 5 devices I ordered in September have shipped yet (PiShop & Spark Fun). I am also looking forward to a PoE+ HAT, as all of my network switches output plenty of PoE power (I have four Aruba S3500-24P switches with redundant power).

the cable you are showing is very similar to the ones used on the zx and spectrum computer keyboards . they were crap are these the same?

Would the Hatdrive bottom be better when using an active cooler? I wonder when we will get cases for them

I just got radxa 3c which has onboard m.2 m-key. Didnt find benchmark yet, but supposedly pcie2.0 x1 as well. Would be interested how is it implemented, with rpi having it implemented very well(with hat board tho).

3:16 Velcro Command strips. That way you can use that device one-handed without risking a Red Shirt Jeff moment.

Will there be a speed difference from the usb-m.2 adapter with the same ssd? I am wondering if the benefit is "only" the saving of one usb port.

Indeed, finally ! Been waiting for this. Didn't expect the announcement so early. Grabbed the bottom version, as my Pi (which hasn't arrived yet) will be in a Pimoroni case. NVME will be perfect for running VMs and I won't need to sacrifice an USB 3.0 port to have an SSD.

@alvallac2171

5 ай бұрын

*a USB (because "yoo-ess-bee" begins with a consonant sound) "A" vs "an" is determined by the *sound* that immediately follows, not the letter.

I believe imager has a way to flash the SD card with the bios preconfigured to search for nvme

Very cool!!

Cool, I know with the Pi you could use USB which was nice, if you had the Argon cases that came with either M.2 SATA or M.2 NVMe. I hope Argon updates their case so you can run the ribbon to the storage tray. This is cool.

@79ober

5 ай бұрын

They will :)

@apveening

5 ай бұрын

@@79ober My expectation as well.

Hi! New subscriber. Ty!

are there anything routed under the SSD? i wish it was cut out so the fan would pull air better

I would love to use an Intel Optane drive with the new Pi. The IOPS should be insane, and given that they're discontinued the prices can be ridiculously cheap.

Hey Jeff, thank you for this informative video. Looking forward to picking up a Pi5 of my very own soon. Do you think OpenMediaVault will run on it? Is there something we can use in the meantime? All I realistically want is a backup server with rSync-type “jobs” that can be run between drives for grandfather-grandson backups. It seems that many of the solutions that aren’t OMV are made for non-SBC’s and are not ARM. OR am I missing something? You rock 👍

@apveening

5 ай бұрын

You will have to wait for OMV 7, but it will run.

Any tips on formatting and partitioning the nvme for optimal use?

Great video!!

Awesome video! Now i just have to wait to get my Rpi 5...some people have all the luck lol Thanks as always for the awesome content and instructions. Keep up the great work.

It would be interesting to see on the pineberry pcie hat for 2280 m.2 SSD’s such a m.2 module with 6x Sata and then a Raid of HDD’s. Via USB 3.0 then maybe a 2.5“ Sata SSD for the OS and a 2.5gbit Ethernet usb adapter. Or hardware RAID PCIe cards in general.

Ooh, that's super cool. Maybe I'll have to get a Pi 5 at some point in the near future if PoE+ HAT and this come along.

Good job. Very useful. The shutdown command, however, requires a "now" modifier to avoid the delay. Typically, "sudo shutdown now." Also, and it depresses me to mention, but apparently ifconfig is being depreciated in favor of an "io" and "ss" pair of commands. I don't care for them much, but they didn't ask me.

What about memory cooling? Have you measured to what temperature the memory heats up?

Well that might just be useful IF we ever get a 2.5 gbit nic on the pi:s, and that is along with the nvme drives. Great video, thanks.

Awesome teaching as always Jeff! None of that red shirt Jeff quality :P

@JeffGeerling

5 ай бұрын

I won't tell Red Shirt Jeff you think his quality is reduced :D

One thing they should do is add grooves to the PCB under the SSD. otherwise the fan could blow up due the lack of air. this would add some slightly better cooling potential to the board.