I think MVG's point at the end was most important for emulation buyers. Once you buy the active cooler, the unique power supply (highly doubt you have a 5V supply rated for 5A sitting around), and a case - you're entering mini-PC territory and that product segment moves along very fast much like retro handhelds so there's a good chance of something becoming available in your budget if it's not already.

@PutlerHuyIo

4 ай бұрын

A decent case with a fan + a power supply is like $30 total on Amazon right now. The board itself is $60. A Samsung 128gb SD card is $12. So right about $100 dollars total. Still way cheaper than mini-pc's out there.

@creechrfeechr8094

4 ай бұрын

​@@PutlerHuyIo Well I was assuming we were talking about easily available second hand mini PC's, not those ripoff Chinese things. I got a couple, different specs, both under £100 that easily outperform what this new Pi can do. One of them has a 2200GE and was £85.

@sevbait

4 ай бұрын

You could get an Intel N100 mini pc like the MINISFORUM UN100L and have a good time for less than double the money (they go on sale around $159 sometimes). Above that, the Asrock N100DC-ITX in a cheap case, 16GB DDR4 runs around $30 shipped these days for a good 3200Mhz set, so that you can slot a GPU. Or the Asrock DeskMeet B660 so you get a socketed system with room for a gpu. You could slot a 12100 which has loads of performance. I think these Pi's have become a tough sell unless you absolutely need perf/watt low power for battery or something.

@JustinEmlay

4 ай бұрын

Not even CLOSE to mini PC. Most people doing something like this most definitely have a power source sitting around. The USB ports on my wall outlets support this. Unless you're talking about used garbage. Apples and Oranges. Plus, this is STILL new and has a way to go. Much more speed coming.

@glenndoiron9317

4 ай бұрын

@@JustinEmlay The USB power supply you have "sitting around" is most likely NOT a 5A supply, more likely to be a 2A supply which the Rpi FAQ specifically says "you may have issues". In other words, you will have reduced performance (good old lightning bolt display). Rpi5 8gb = $80, case/fan/PSU $30, 256GB sd card (that actually WORKS and isn't a hacked lower capacity card) $20 , now you're $6 away from an Intel N100 mini-pc which is twice as fast processing, hilariously faster storage I/O, has 802.11ax instead of 802.11ac, bluetooth 5.2 vs 5.0, best class video encoding/decoding, is x86-64 instead of Arm, and can run Windows and all the associated software.

Pi 5 nowadays... while the base price for one is $80, it can go past $150 if you kit it out. Problem with that is, Price to performance just isn't there anymore, once you consider the more recent mini PCs that have exploded onto the market. With not much more money, you could get something much more powerful in comparison. Sure, back in the Pi 2/3 Days, $50 got you a nice little tinker board. But nowadays, It's been harder to justify for the same when faster alternatives exist.

@gunsforevery1

4 ай бұрын

Price to performance? Sure. What about performance and features to size?

@UJustGotGamed

4 ай бұрын

@@gunsforevery1 just buy a mini PC for a similar price and an x86 laptop chip, raspberry pi is really losing its name because of how expensive they are now

@VSMOKE1

4 ай бұрын

If you're hitting the 150 to $200 mark yeah you're better off going to a different route like the RP4 pro Well if not that 1 wait a couple of months and something better will come out😂

@michaelgleason4791

4 ай бұрын

You can't find them for $80 either.

@KrissFliss

4 ай бұрын

Can you give me an example for a mini PC that's as small as the PI?@@UJustGotGamed

Correction : 6:57 I mean to say PlayStation 2 instead of PlayStation 5

@novelezra

4 ай бұрын

Doesn't run PS5? L

@radg0090

4 ай бұрын

​@@novelezra what a shame !

@lox3391

4 ай бұрын

raspberry pi 5, playstation 2 i can honestly see the word mix-up

@insu_red

4 ай бұрын

Playstation Pi

@shriram5494

2 ай бұрын

You mean Raspberry pi 5?

Those frame rate hitches in Killer Instinct are internal and not the emulation. It’s when the game is reading from it’s hard drive which is why it occurs during transition sequences. I know this for a fact because I owned the arcade game on a super gun for many years

@hamothemagnif8529

4 ай бұрын

Is it the same for the Metal Slug series? Those games run slow on everything (even steam).

@coleshores

4 ай бұрын

@@hamothemagnif8529 that’s sprite slowdown I believe. The carts on the NeoGeo bus have an insane amount of bandwidth to where sprite data can be read right from the cartridge.

@lancepage1914

4 ай бұрын

​@@hamothemagnif8529that is not the same thing. Metal Slug 2 slows down inherently like a mofo on real arcade hardware - it's literally just the game that does that regardless of hardware or emulation. That's why they made Metal Slug X to remedy that. Killer Instinct on real hardware runs perfectly without a hitch or slow down. The emulation on KI on a good system will not slow down either, the hitches only occur upon the gameplay loading up.

@hamothemagnif8529

4 ай бұрын

@@lancepage1914 right on. Thanks for the info

I remember using Raspberry Pi when it first came out, I was amazed with just how powerful it was for its small size. I'm glad they're still going strong

@orangehatmusic225

4 ай бұрын

I am amazed that they went from $20 to $100

@blunderingfool

4 ай бұрын

​@orangehatmusic225 Low end units are still cheap.

@orangehatmusic225

4 ай бұрын

@@blunderingfool $88 on amazon for the RPI5 4gb .. cheap.. no.

@TheStuffMade

4 ай бұрын

@@orangehatmusic225 They just added more models, you can get a Pico for $5, so I don't know what you're talking about.

@piyh3962

4 ай бұрын

When was a B model ever $20?

As much as i love the Pi... for around 100$ there are plenty of used micro PC options out there like optiplex micros with far more processing power

@DanielLopez-up6os

4 ай бұрын

Sure but they're not gonna be only consuming 25 watts while doing it.

@chutcentral

4 ай бұрын

Cool. I don't care 😂 ​@@DanielLopez-up6os

@anno5936

4 ай бұрын

"only consuming 25 watts" is an issue; you easily get a PS2 slim that runs on 25 watts with perfect, not 50% gameplay. Therefore as impressive as the Pi5 is, it is not competitive in my book. If you go the micro PC route with a used ryzen 2nd gen onwards you get away with an average of 40 watts, cheaper integrated storage, no compromise on any of the discussed systems and still some headroom for older PC titles and easy PS3 emulation. Even if you want something new that beats the Raspi5 at the same price, Intel N100 chipset is an option at around the same power consumption. Whichever way, current mobile SoCs are starting to show up in handhelds that can do even PS2 on a level above the Raspi5 at roughly twice the cost, so whatever happens in the future, I am very optimistic about emulation getting both cheaper and more energy efficient

@DanielLopez-up6os

4 ай бұрын

@@chutcentral that's the main point of a Raspi tho? Lowish power consumption, good perfomance in a very tiny package.

@WatevaMelon

4 ай бұрын

​​​​@@DanielLopez-up6osbeing cheap was also its main point. When it was $35 it was debatable to get it over a chromecast which was priced similarly. Now that it cost more than a chromecast, people like me will probably just stick with a chromecastchrome cast. I bought both 1st and 2nd gen raspberry pi, when they made chromecast with android, i didnt hesitate to use that instead and stopped using the pi. Even with the Pi's upgraded performance, I'm not swayed enough to buy one at an $80 price point. If I wanted an actual dedicated computer, I'd buy one. I'm not sure I'd want to spend $80 just to tinker with something that will probably just end up being another media player, when there are cheaper options.

I've been using raspberry pis for several years as a personal server and other as emulation consoles. The problem with these machines is that when you add up the cost of the case, a decent power supply, a quality SD card and a decent fan, to end up with mixed performance for a price close to that of a mini PC, it's not worth it. On top of that, problems with power supply, SD card reliability and the lack of availability of certain ARM-based Linux packages made me decide never to buy one again. I've had an x64 mini PC for 4 years now, and I'll never go back, whatever the performance promised by each new generation.

@DarkestVampire92

4 ай бұрын

SD card reliability has been addressed long ago through M2 NVME boards, but the Pi 5 actually supports it natively now (as an option you need to enable) with great performance. Personally i've just been using old PC fans and heat sinks, as well as laptop harddrives for the Pi instead of the SD cards and stock heat sinks.

@rastamouse7861

4 ай бұрын

Yeah I hear you. I have many raspberry pi's but I feel like their last advantages were low power consumption and low price, but they have lost those since the raspberry pi 4. Now you can find old Intel NUCs for the same price when you factor in power supply, case, cooling and storage and it will far exceed the performance of even the raspberry pi 5.

@Vahron

4 ай бұрын

@@rastamouse7861 Truth be told, the gap between raw power and energy consumption when comparing ARM and x86 platforms was much larger back when RPi1 released, but it's now somewhat closer between the two. We simply don't need the RPi as a platform anymore as much as we did 10 years ago.

@causerDAguv

4 ай бұрын

THIS RIGHT HERE!!!!!

@stragulus

4 ай бұрын

That is probably fair, for some reason the Pi is a bit overrated for tasks such as emulation because it's not really the market it was after. It's cool that it can do it, but there's indeed much better hardware available for that. It's really a tinkerer's board, and the higher end ones don't make much sense for non-tinkerers, other than perhaps the huge user base so it's very easy to find solutions to problems, and the knowledge that it will be supported for a very long time.

Love to see this advancement! Thanks for covering, MVG

A further note on the power supply - the 5V@5A USB-PD profile it wants is not an official profile. Devices in this power class are supposed to use the 9V@3A profile and include a switching regulator to get whatever voltages they need. However, for whatever reason Pi foundation decided they didnt want to increase the BoM cost or didnt feel they had space on the PCB. This means that none of your USB-C power supplies will work, even if they support 20V@5A. You have to go buy one with the special profile.

@sevbait

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for this 👍

@choirulabidin9890

4 ай бұрын

Most powerful 5v adapter I ever encountered is 3A.

@wich1

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, this was a really stupid decision, because it basically just raises the price of a raspberry pi 5 with $15 because you effectively have no option but to get both the board and the psu. And that while practically everyone already has some USB-C laptop PSU lying around that can easily provide the power needed.

@nickwallette6201

4 ай бұрын

My first thought: 5A?? Why not just use 9/12V? That SoC isn’t running at 5V either, so there’s already a regulator onboard…

@tarakivu8861

4 ай бұрын

Wow, yet another stupid decision by the Raspberry Foundation.. do they ever stop?

So glad they solved the issue of no being able to buy the 4 by not being able to buy the 5.

@Evilkingus

4 ай бұрын

It is readily available everywhere?

@jajabinx35

4 ай бұрын

I don't know where you guys are looking at. I'm looking at lot of stock avail at the main reseller where I'm from

@1996connor

4 ай бұрын

So many in stock for £60

@TheStuffMade

4 ай бұрын

Plenty in stock at my local reseller, from $62 for just the board with 4GB, up to $128 for 8GB with cooler, box, power adapter and SD card. Their only limit is max 10 per order.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

they say they make 90k pis per week and still not enough the demand is absurd

great in-depth dive into this new offering. It's everything I've been wondering about it, and I'm glad you covered it!

Excellent video, thanks. You really go above and beyond in detail.

Thanks for the review MVG. You might be better buying a second hand 7500t or 9500t mini office pc running batocera. It seems like it'll run emulation smoother and costs similar money, especially if you use an ebay coupon etc. The pi5 is expensive here in Aus and I don't see the value proposition. I've bought every main version pi since the first and unfortunately won't be continuing the tradition.

@happyspaceinvader508

4 ай бұрын

That depends on whether form factor is also a consideration. In terms of price, performance and size… I don’t think there’s anything better than the Pi5.

I've always been a raspberry pi fan and it's great to see it keep getting better and better. It was my first taste of emulation many years ago. My steam deck is my primary emulation machine now, however if I can find a raspberry pi 5 at a decent price, I would love to tinker with it. Great video as always!

awesome video, i was definitely interested in this device so this was very helpful!

Using up towards 25W.. That's the point where you might consider just getting a NUC, or AsRock A300/X300, and some lower-end Ryzen APU (2200G, 3200G, 4600G, etc). A300 with a 2200G, 32GB RAM, 4x SSD, idled at about 14W.

I love how these things were suppose to be $20 and for everyone now they cost a small fortune lol

@PiskenDragen

4 ай бұрын

It still costs way less than conventional computers.

@TheBroz

4 ай бұрын

$80 is a 'small fortune'? It really isn't. Lower end Pi are still much cheaper.

@rorychivers8769

4 ай бұрын

People keep wanting it to run PS2 games, what exactly do you expect?

@MrBrax

4 ай бұрын

@@TheBroz they're slowly being replaced, soon we only have the 100€ pi 4 and 5.

@ChaoticanarchyX

4 ай бұрын

103$ for Pi 5 (80$), case (10$) & power supply (13$) .... That's not cheap......

I had a ton of fun emulating stuff on a pi 3 a few years ago. Felt like such an elegant solution at the time even though it was cheap. Now I think emulating on SBCs doesn’t really make as much sense, especially when one of the chinese emulator handhelds with HDMI out is cheaper. The drivers always suck so much on SBCs too

@wingedhussar1453

4 ай бұрын

Except the hdmi ones can't run ps2 gamecube

@cloudycolacorp

4 ай бұрын

​@@wingedhussar1453 Is running some of the PS2 and GC library with performance compromises and hacks required really THAT much of an advantage? Still other devices that would be better choice for emulating that gen

@abcbfg

4 ай бұрын

@@wingedhussar1453 you can buy nettops that cost 100 bucks and under, they will support gamecube, wii, ps2 and lower due to x86 and etc. Many of them have i3 and normal gpus with normal drivers

@bryanmiranda6674

4 ай бұрын

​@@wingedhussar1453the retroid pocket 2s will run gamecube and ps2 better than this for only $99 and so will the rp3+.Not to mention the rp4 that just came out.all with hdmi,bluetooth,wifi,etc.

I love the idea of a Pi, but over the last couple years I just keep coming back to the fact that by the time I add a power supply, case, cooler, storage, etc, I might as well just buy a significantly faster micro PC. You can buy refurbed 9th gen models for $150 or so.

@TheSliderW

4 ай бұрын

compatibility and perf will be higher until the ARM ports start getting more optimised. An old quad core (thinking core 2 quad) PC with a gtx 440 can run PS2 games without a sweat in 2x resolution scaling. Now, this is certainly not efficient if your the one paying the electricity bill but for occasional retro gaming, it's cheap and good enougth + you get analog out with VGA or DVI connectors ready for a sweet CRT monitor or TV if you manage to find one for that extra retro feel...

@ryecatcher25

4 ай бұрын

I got multiple i5 7600t mini pcs for 50bucks off ebay. Completely blows away thr pi5

@TheSliderW

4 ай бұрын

@@ryecatcher25 Pretty good haul. That should run pretty much anything in SD resolutions and maybe even the wiiu with some perf hacks.

@dyhidrogenmonoxide

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it used to be you could get set up for ~$30-$40 and an old usb charger you had lying around… sure the leaps in performance are nice, but it’s not the same.

@64kram

4 ай бұрын

Larger firm factor and draw more power. Don't be upset about having too much choice - it meets other people's requirements well.

This does look great! If this was released a couple years ago, I'd be all over it. But like you mentioned at the end of the video, I bought a mini PC and I am very happy with the emulation power and performance of that! Pi 5 is cool. Great video!

@VSMOKE1

4 ай бұрын

What mini pc you buy?

@breakpack

4 ай бұрын

@@VSMOKE1 It's a MinisForum UM560XT. It's a bit older now, you probably could get something more powerful in the same price range. It plays XBox, PS2, Gamecube no problem.

Most big shoot em up have issue on mame in general, mostly input lag. They can run passably with run ahead but most dedicated shmup players run them in custom tweaked mame versions optimized to reduce slowdowns and input lag.

Its an amazing time for emulation and compact systems!!! Use to be youd have to have a full tower, overclocked and loaded to the gills to run half that stuff and at nowhere near full framerate. I've had wallets that were larger than the Pi 5!!!!! This is soo amazing!!!

Thanks! Came for the rasperry pi stayed for the info on emulation. Will try some stuff on muh gaming rig this weekend.

Great video! Thank you

Just loving the fact you opened the video with Wind Waker. I'm so happy I was never into zelda growing up because right now I'm playing wind waker (on my s21, sometimes in my dex station or on the phones already brilliant screen. With a Xbox controller) and the game is just exceptional especially when I I've got Hypatia's WWHD texture replacement on top With headroom to spare on enabling anti aliasing x2 and X2 internal res. It's just an absolute graphics Spectacle...on my phone 😂

@buhshmuh

4 ай бұрын

Game's 20 years old. Not as impressive as you would think. Also one of the worst zeldas in the franchise, second only to Majora's mask. But yes, your phone is a much better emulation device than the pi 5 for sure. I'll agree with that

@buhshmuh

4 ай бұрын

Also try using a game sir x2 or backbone with your phone and you might convince yourself you own a handheld gaming console

@JanvanRosmalen-lc2vm

4 ай бұрын

who want to play on a phone while there are 42 or 55 inch Lcd screens out there :)

@Ndrew556

2 ай бұрын

Dude was just excited to play a game and you guys started being jerks

@MegaDysart

2 ай бұрын

@@buhshmuhhorrible take holy shit lol

I had a Pi 3+ then got a 4, but decided this time to go down the mini pc route (Trig Key) as wanted to emulate switch and similar demanding systems without issue.

@vansdan.

4 ай бұрын

hey im in the market, trigkey is good for switch, ps2, etc? how about ps3? or even pc? if youve tested those

@TheTotallyRealXiJinping

4 ай бұрын

@@vansdan.PS3 is still in its infancy so its a game by game basis, PC games if you mean 2010 and back

@f5203

4 ай бұрын

There's "gaming" pc's for a reason. A mini pc isn't going to play ps3, x360 nor switch well.

@vansdan.

4 ай бұрын

@@TheTotallyRealXiJinping ok thats what i thought. good nuf for me.

@feahnorl

4 ай бұрын

@@f5203that’s not true. I have a mini pc with a ryzen 5800h and plays ps3 and switch perfectly.

Great to see another MVG video.

THUMBS UP, $80 dolla holla sounds like a great price. Going to build one for my nephew

The most optimistic number I could get was about 250% as fast, but definitely not 250% faster. 150% faster was probably what you meant.But slightly more then double seems to most accurately describe the performance in synthetic numbers.

Likely issue with KI/KI2 is I/O speed. The transitions and such in KI are streamed off the game's "hard drive" so if that is slow, the game will stutter even if it's being rendered at 60 fps.

@nickwallette6201

4 ай бұрын

That’s a reasonable theory, but if the title screen with a 1994 copyright was for the arcade version, it wouldn’t have had a very fast HDD either. Not sure what the storage architecture looks like on the Pi5 but it wouldn’t take much to beat the throughput of your average mid-90s HDD. Let alone solid-state seek times.

I got a Beelink SER7 Mini PC for Christmas & it has become my one & only emulation box. I've been able to play PS3, Wii U, OG Xbox, & Switch games at near perfect performance, along with many AAA PC games from the past five years.

@Vett914

3 ай бұрын

I got the same! It’s an absolute beast! Like you said any emulation you can throw at it. I also use it as a server for highly modded games my online group and I join into. It’s been a blast

Great content 👍

Man, as someone who's older it's absolutely insane to me how much power we can stuff into SOC's nowadays. Especially considering you can throw a case with a screen, external (or internal I guess) battery and run the thing mobile. I remember when I first bought my Nokia N810 thinking there was no way we'd make substantial improvements from that, yet here we are.

For the parts you find slowdowns you could report a bug to mesa. RPI5 drivers is too new to know if you are hitting a driver bug or a hardware limitation.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

this is the part i dont like about pi, always the driver let ypu down for months, years in fact

Many seem to place performance or more features up there above everything else. For me it is a balance of features, performance, flexibility, community support, wide range of add-ons and software that make the real total package. I was so close to getting an Orange Pi 5 or 5 Plus or even diving into a RISC V setup, but the factors I mentioned were the deciding reason in the end for upgrading to the Pi 5.

great vid, the active coolers are realy good except they are quite tricky to get out of the box 😋❤️

these are cool for people with a pathological need for the smallest possible computers. go just a bit bigger and the performance gets really insane.

@kefling

17 күн бұрын

Tell me please I'm trying to make a miniature pc that only runs halo ce

It's crazy for me to think that little device is more powerful than the computer I had a bit over 10 years ago.

@dominick253

4 ай бұрын

I have a amd a8 laptop that I use for my proxmox cluster. It can't even stream KZread at720 and the pi5 does 1080@60.

@povilasstaniulis9484

4 ай бұрын

I have an old Athlon x2 240 box from early 2010's serving as my secondary home server running some VMs. That box has CPU grunt equivalent to about a Pi 4. Pi 5 would absolutely trounce it. I was thinking about replacing that box with a Pi 5 or 4, but sadly there is still some stuff that doesn't run well on ARM.

@yoshi314

4 ай бұрын

not to mention the power efficiency improvements.

@fuzz11111111

4 ай бұрын

More power than a 10 year old cheap laptop (or similar low end hardware), but you wouldn't have been trying to game on that kind've thing even when it was new. About 12 years ago I built a desktop with an i7 3930k (6 core sandy bridge e) in it and I doubt the pi is anywhere close to that level of performance (considering that old computer can still run modern games albeit with lowered settings and an upgraded GPU).

@Feret626

4 ай бұрын

More power than the computers that took people to the moon! Of course thats everything now a days

New MVG vid?! I understand only surface knowledge tech but I’m here to nod my head and agree like I’m part of the group! Let’s go!

So cool to see how far these little SBCs have come.

I've mucked about with Pis a bit, they are perfect if a tiny form factor is essential but otherwise I have given up and sold them, you'll spend most of your life being slightly dissapointed with performance and trying to tweak that extra bit out of it, when really you get a hell of a lot more power and flexibility (Lakka, Batocera, Linux, Windows etc) with a cheap used small form factor (SFF or USFF) PC for around the same money or even less. The great thing is offices get rid of them by the truck load! IF you must have new hardware, the latest budget Intel chips like the new N100 are also substantially more powerful than a Pi and extremely cheap in new mini PC packages, for what they are capable of.

@Broken_Yugo

4 ай бұрын

This, thin client, liter computer, SFF, mini pc, whatever you want to call them they're always the better deal for doing PC type things than starting from any bare board. I needed a new home print server so I just picked up a low power fanless Lenovo for $32 delivered with OEM PSU (newer than the machine even), SSD, ram, ready to run. Try doing that with a Pi or similar SBC after PSU, case, storage, etc.

Spent hours playing with PS2 emulation on Pi5 and found the RK3588 (or step up to the X1) to be a better option If you want to keep it strictly SBC. Regardless of SBC used however (& not really discussed or shown here) majority of ps2 games need unique tweaks and config setup to run & half of the Aethersx2 settings have zero input and will lock up/crash the pi5. Dropping in a PS2 ISO and just being able to play it won't happen often.

@aziskgarion378

4 ай бұрын

Why are you playing with Aethersx2? You can't use PCSX2? Does PCSX2 requires certain emulation and instruction set that locks it to amd64 platform? Afaik Aethersx2 is a port of PCSX2 itself.

@nick-leffler

4 ай бұрын

​@@aziskgarion378pcsx2 requires x86_64 not arm.

@omgitsbats

4 ай бұрын

​@@nick-leffler Both of you are out of date. AetherSX2 is an ARM fork of PCSX2.

@kiodiekin

4 ай бұрын

Lol🎉 u tellem maniac

@DailyCorvid

4 ай бұрын

RockChips are similar to Pi's, I think the benefits of Pi foundation stuff are the better support package and more popular easy to find teaching packs. I just got two Pi5's for kids to learn on, and whilst RockChip would have been far cheaper - for teaching they are next to useless and that's the reason I went for Pi. RockChip is better for adult enthusiasts though, as you say it's better for tweaking if you have the skill. Not necessarily all that different hardware wise, but you can hack it to pieces if you know how, and that is always fun.

Literally just got my pi4 today. Any chance of a twister OS video as I love your content and you would do a much better video with all the others out there 😊

Big thumbs up for testing Killer Instinct! Still hoping for a perfect MiSTer core.

It's a little powerhouse, my brother got my son one of those for Christmas. My son uses it to play Minecraft and it does it pretty well.

My problem with the raspberry pi4 was essentially that while the console emulation often worked well, TV emulation shaders were often too slow for realtime..

@TheOfficialOriginalChad

4 ай бұрын

That’s odd…I wonder why specifically TV shaders.

@logannosleep5

4 ай бұрын

​@@TheOfficialOriginalChad I think because they use CRT emulation or similar, sometimes the decent ones are two or three layers and heavy. I was using a really decent one there for a while on pi4, but required overclocking if you was to use the run ahead. Only played super Nintendo though on it. I think I'm going to wait til pi 6 personally. By then they might have slightly larger boards with the full pcie. I have a small 90watt ryzen system with a wx 2100 and it's fairly decent, and small, and of course uses a lot less power than my 850watt gaming PC, and that's really what I was trying to do with the PIs.

@DailyCorvid

4 ай бұрын

It was because the graphics were provided by shared memory which is fine, but the memory bandwidth was not sufficient for that plus storage streaming from the HHD/SSD. Hopefully the 5 will have solved this issue. Pi4 was far too weak anyway, I am pleased to see 5 get a big upgrade.

@ginxxxxx

4 ай бұрын

@@TheOfficialOriginalChad i think he means just shaders (as effects to make it look like a tube tv)...as shaders are programs that run on a gpu, if it is forced to run on a cpu it is technically not a "shader" and will run slower. i don't know who is the liar.

@ginxxxxx

4 ай бұрын

@@logannosleep5 part of being decent is running at a good frame rate.

Well, my 8GB Pi 5 only games with network packets. It's being used as a router in addition to running some VMs and torrenting to it's M.2 SSD. But still, it's nice to see what this tiny board is capable of. Heck, with a big NVME drive, you could fill it with bajillion ROMs and have yourself an great all-rounder emulation box. As for cooling, the active cooler fan is silent but pretty weak at it's job. Since I have a lot of spare fans, I dropped on a temperature controlled 92mm 12v fan. It's a grand overkill but keeps both the Pi 5 and it's attached USB network interfaces (3 on USB 3.0 and 1 on USB 2.0) nice and chilly.

Love that he posted

It's funny to me how I associate pi with a barebones system so each time I get baffeled by people emulating on it. Really love the videos!

@jimbotron70

4 ай бұрын

Emulation made Raspberry rich!

The cave shooter issue might be a refresh mismatch? I.E. the arcade is emulated in something like 57 hz matching the original, but is displayed at 60hz on the Pi introducing some choppiness.

@jimbotron70

4 ай бұрын

This

Thanks for the video. What mini PC would you recommend?

783k subscribers So happy for you man. I love this channel. So much interesting content

I was a raspberry pi fan especially with the 3B stuff as it was cheap and cheerful but I think there are better and more options now. My preferred solution atm is Xbox Series X and dev mode for Dolphin/PS2 and a frontend app like Launchpass. I don't think I will buy a PI5, I do still have the 3B and a Pi 400 though to tinker about with...

@erikkarsies4851

4 ай бұрын

Xbox Series X is the first console in a long time that has a better price/performance ratio for emulation purposes than (new) self build PCs, because MS is selling them very cheap atm. But the question is how long they let emulation be possible in dev mode?

@freerunner7822

4 ай бұрын

@@erikkarsies4851easy: they let emulation until they let dev mode...

Great video! You could compare switch emulation (ryujinx and yuzu)! It would be nice to see if there are any advantages compared to emulators for older consoles because the Switch also has an arm64 cpu. At least Ryujinx has to be compiled for linux arm64 afaik

Wasn't killer instinct arcade a machine with a mechanical hard drive in it that had the video stored on it. Maybe those skips are to do with the data retrieval and the draw is not affected. Don't know. Great video as always ;-)

The Pi's been popular as an emulation board, but it's never been a very good solution. Because the series of chips its used are meant for (and primarily used in) set-top boxes so the VideoCore "GPU" series has always been first and foremost a video decoder. There's always been much better solutions with similar chips meant for smartphones and tablets with much more capable GPUs like the ODroid and Orange Pi series. I really wish people would look at those instead when building emulation boxes...

@AnnoyedPancake-mf8bd

4 ай бұрын

Whats the best bang for buck device from those companies

@abbe9641

4 ай бұрын

What you forget is versatility and long term support, you can buy an orange pi sure but if you wanna do anything else with it then you're likely SOL. Besides the pi 5 has a very capable gpu.

@noahheninger

4 ай бұрын

The Orange Pi 5 will be a great choice once it has proper Vulkan support.

@Xfade81

4 ай бұрын

But now that this one fares better, do those still perform better ?

@beezle1976

4 ай бұрын

Earlier Orange Pi had an even weaker gpu and odroid is a different pricepoint. Also, raw power equates to squat if support isnt there. That's one area the Pi is untouchable.

I had a Pi 3 back in the day, best part of that was that you could put it in your pocket with a small frame controller and its adapter, and you could have a portable gaming console wherever you had a TV or a monitor. I used to bring that to work on night shifts and play games on my free time.

Great content, any thoughts on reviewing mini-pcs for 2024?

I hope our local shops have the 8G model back in stock soon. Then again, I might just as well get an Intel N100 mini PC and get the same.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

if that is your goal, sure, most people buying a pi have other projects in mind, but if emulate is your only goal, the n100 should cost the same and run x86 withput much problems

@MegaManNeo

4 ай бұрын

@@betag24cn Eh, I use Pis in many ways but given GPIO boards for x86 machines exist too, I almost wanna save my money and use it otherwise. Love the RPi tho.

The Pi was cool a decade ago but with the relase of mini PCs, it's pretty much DOA when it comes to emulation performance. Any cheap Ryzen Mini PC will crush this and by the time you buy all the Pi accessories, you're better off spending a bit more for a MIni PC.

Thanks for sharing this and all the data points. I think I’ll grab a raspberry pi 5. Question, what game is being shown @ 9:52?

Testing Cave CV1, see now that's one of the reasons you rock :) I wonder if the "frame skip" you are noticing on the Cave CV1 emulation is down to the weird frame rates the original pcbs ran at. I believe some of them ran at like 58 fps or something just short of 60, which I think some emus do not reproduce quite right, and fudges them up to 60 creating the effect that you described.

If you wanted an emulation box I'd rather invest in a Ryzen based miniPC, 8-core zen4 with rdna3 graphics and ddr5 memory is just awesome. Way more pricey, but you get a modern x-86 cpu on 4nm lithography with all of the efficiency and software support that comes with it. Heck, you could play modern games on those things, nevermind emulation. Pies aren't really ideal for gaming because arm.

@adeedaas

4 ай бұрын

“Why would you swat a fly when you could use USS Turner Joy”

@MysteriousFigure

4 ай бұрын

@@adeedaas Sure maybe don't go full bang, but n100 based minipc's and so on can be had in the same ballpark as a full kitted pi5, and you get the advantage of better performance, not having to use a weird supply and full x86 compatibility, so you can put and basically run what you like, along with normal driver support and not necessarily being tied to an ecosystem, pi's have their uses, sure, but I think the pricing is starting to go off the cliff, and the minipc's are really a lot of competition in comparison, even outside of just the emulation context as well

@Wooksley

4 ай бұрын

@@MysteriousFigure good point, n100 is an awesome choice if you’re on a pi-type budget, didn’t even think about those. Maybe the new 15th gen mobile chips will be a good choice as well, assuming they make some budget friendly ones with decent gpus. Arm is good and all, but lack of software support hurts it, and the chips in pis are manufactured on legacy nodes anyhow.

@kmieciu4ever

4 ай бұрын

@@Wooksley Yeah. The Broadcom BCM2712 is the 16nm while Intel N100 is Intel 7 Lithography. When Intel beats you at efficiency, you know you're doing something wrong.

An "$80 Gaming Beast"... ... That you have to buy a cooler for... ... And a power supply for... ... That seemingly can't run most GameCube games at native res at full, stable speeds... There are full portable systems like the Retroid Pocket 4 that come with everything you need, can play almost all PS2 games at 2x resolution at full speed, and which cost only a fraction more than the Pi after you add up everything you need, so i have no idea where all the praise for this system is coming from.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

that is completelly true, but if your goal is make projects with it, and not jist play old games, it can do tjat too, the units you mention have 0 flexibility if you dont understand the goal of a sbc or the limitation this video has, well.

@seto007

4 ай бұрын

@@betag24cn that's fine, though even within the realms of SBCs the Pi is overpriced for what it offers compared to it's competitors, and the only advantage it still has is that it has tons of community support for hardware add-ons since it was the first mover. If though, as seems to be the case outlined in this video, your only goal is to use it as-is for a low-cost emulation box, there is no reason whatsoever to buy it over it's competitors.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

@@seto007 another advantage is quality, you dont hear often about dead pi sbcs, mostly telated to shorts in psu or gpio but in the end all is about support and if you can find help easy, banana and orange seems great but if i have problems with kernel, drivers or making something i need work, well, you know

@jed2055

2 ай бұрын

@@seto007Absolutely spot on mate. This is NOT a gaming beast; that's click bait stuff. I did like the video tho but the title, not so much. Also as a fellow Aussie I'm disappointed this vlogger does not answer questions from his viewers AT ALL from what I've read so far.

I've been waiting for this! Right now, I'm using a retropie setup with a Raspberry Pi 4 hooked up to a CRT using the headphone jack. I take it due to the removal of the headphone jack in the Pi 5, this type of setup won't be possible anymore?

Hi love your channel. Is there a place where I can buy a micro SD card with all the games and systems and emulators on it so I can just buy the PI5 and start gaming? Thanks for the videos

If you can buy it for that price...

@peruxD1000

4 ай бұрын

@@victor.elkinsi think he‘s talking about availability

@VanillaMidgetSSBM

4 ай бұрын

​@@victor.elkins I think he means its expensive on the secondary market and probably has people gouging the price If you go through pishop (an authorized retailer) its only 80 usd

@BurningEmerald

4 ай бұрын

@@victor.elkinsGracious.

@thesidneychan

4 ай бұрын

​@@victor.elkinsthe raspberry pis were scalped, and resellers were selling them at much higher prices.

@DestroyerOfWombs

4 ай бұрын

Preorder + patience = MSRP

So far I am very happy with recalbox on the rpi5. My rpi 5 is blowing everything away i throw at it

Hello, first time viewer. Not used to having a gamer older than myself. Watching a few of these emulation videos, it seems that it is almost easier to just play on the original systems. In terms of space, it seems Raspberry Pi might be a decent option. I've kept all my systems growing up so I often wonder if it's the way to go.

I had a RP4 and after I saw the price of the RP5 after the case, fan, and everything it came out to basically the same as a Beelink S12. I didn't need the headers since I still have the old RP4 if I need to tinker, so I bought one of those and it's been great. It's not much bigger than the RP, has 16GB of RAM, 512GB NVME, N100 processor, and an Intel UHD Graphics 750. Compared to most of the statistics I've seen, it's double the benchmarks of the RP5. It could easily be a dedicated emulation machine, or be capable of running 2 or possibly even 3 docker containers simultaneously depending on what you need to run.

Unfortunately the RK3588(S) based systems aren't in the same price-range, but the GPU is better suited for emulation of newer 3D consoles. (Except the Dreamcast which emulates great on almost all newer Arm based systems) If there ever will be a 'ShieldTV II' that probably will be awesome for it!

@sovo1212

4 ай бұрын

The Orange Pi 5 is cheaper actually.

@erikkarsies4851

4 ай бұрын

@@sovo1212 You have add the cost of the SSD and the casing then. Then it doesn't differ much in price. And don't forget both Raspberry as Nvidia win in the support part. I hear too many complaints about issues not being solved with RK chipsets. And don't forget the OPi5 isn't even that much faster than the Shield TV on the GPU side. A Shield TV II might be a total different beast. (I'm thinking Mac Mini M2 or M3 kind of performance a lot cheaper) But maybe if the RK3588S systems would go down in price I would consider it as a hobby project. But that's the problem with both the Pi5 and OPi5 : The price as a complete system isn't in the 'let's see what we can do with it' category atm. The original cheap but fun SBC market isn't showing much progress.

@erikkarsies4851

4 ай бұрын

@@sovo1212 I've had now time to check the prices and OPi5 isn't cheaper here. Not even on Ali

We are at the point where you need to run PS2 for at least a 150 bucks flawlessly

So glad they kept the composite video output. It's not as clean as component, but wonderful for gaming using with CRT TV's.

1:28 mah boy you were STRUGGLING there lol

I wouldn't call it a beast, but it's fine for emulation of older consoles and arcade games.

Nice to see scalpers still have the market cornered. None of the official shops have Pi 5s available still, and I’ve been checking every couple months. I guess the good news is that Pi 4s are widely available again now that scalper bots aren’t hammering these sites the minute they go on sale.

Perfect Timing I got my pi 5 in the mail today.

will be worth revisiting this in a couple of years to see how it's all matured.

or just buy an older PC/AIO that's vastly more capable and possibly cheaper after you factor in everything else you need to get the pi5 to do anything.

But can it run KZread?

Regarding your discussion at about 13:00, it could be related to "99th percentile" frame rates. Even if it looks like its always at 60fps, if one in every 100, or one in every 20 frames is slower than that, it shows a very noticable drop in visual performance, while not being apparent when just looking at a framerate counter

I've been using the Pi 5 with a 5V 3A battery pack and haven't had any issues when not overclocking or using a mouse & keyboard, or a Gamepad & USB/Keyboard Wireless Dongle(two combos I've tested for hours). I've run Stress for 30 minutes as well with no issues @ stock speeds. I know that's not "officially" supported but it is possible to get by without the official PSU if you're not overclocking our using power hungry USB devices.

The problem for me is that the Raspberry Pi used to be a CHEAP Linux computing solution. Having to get a powerful enough power supply as well as the cooling makes this like everyone has said, something that is now mini-PC range, and there are many better and cheaper options if you're looking to do emulation. They need to cater towards the original crowd, where it's a very inexpensive yet robust computing solution. The ability to run X11 and such in the beginning was a nice-to-have, not a necessity, but now they are pushing towards the higher powered graphical-centric path, which would be great if they were still selling at really low prices - but they are not, in fact mostly the opposite.

@AlistairBrugsch

4 ай бұрын

The situation is a little clouded at the moment as they haven't released a 1 or 2 GB model yet and that's usually where they get back to the "cheap Linux computer" point in fact the 4 GB model is priced closely to the 4GB pi4 retail price. Of course they may just keep the 1 and 2 GB models in the pi4 line and below... So 🤷

@SnakebitSTI

4 ай бұрын

I'm not sure how much of that is on the Raspberry Pi Foundation and how much is on consumers. Raspberry Pi competitors have been gaining ground by pushing out barely supported SBCs with more power than their RPi counterparts. But also the RPF's inability to meet demand means it makes more sense for them to sell at a higher price point.

@pgtmr2713

4 ай бұрын

I bought a Pi5 4GB the official fan cooler official power supply and a 256GB USB flash all for just under $100. How is that not cheap, all new. Overclocked as soon as I could. 3200/950. Playing PS2 on it.

@KesSharann

4 ай бұрын

Business computers are sold by the pallette. You can get a fairly modern amd for under $100, power supply included.

For emulation/gaming, I'd go for a mini PC over a Pi5 any day. Especially if you have to buy all the extra stuff you need to get the most out of the Pi5. For the price of a fully kitted out Pi5 you can get a mini PC that will run rings around the Pi5 in terms of processing power. I just don't see the value proposition in the Pi5 anymore, unless you really feel the need to tinker with the latest version. Not when you can get a N100 system for less than 150 bucks. Some go as low as 100 bucks, depending on where you live and what deals are available locally.

Might want to recheck your measuring tools, Daytona on Saturn runs at around 20fps (and it looks like the emulation is doing that too)

One of the best Channels for anything retro and informed opinion... MVG is an institution... Amazing content...

I found the PSP emulation with the pi4 was completely unisable with any game, even with no up scaling. Even overclocked it couldn’t run something like Pac-Man at more than 10fps with the sound glitching. I have a couple of Pi5s now that I’ll be using to replace the pi4 in my media centre/retropie setup.

@juelz4516

4 ай бұрын

Weird my 3b+ runs psp games mostly perfect?

@Stabby666

4 ай бұрын

@@juelz4516 not here - the Pi4 is fine with all the Sega systems and Nintendo up to the N64 but PPSSPP was pointless. I uninstalled the emulator as it was just wasting space. Hoping the pi5 will be able to run them as it’s at least double the speed. Weirdly I also set up an old gaming PC to run RetroArch (i9, 64GB, RTX3060, NVME drives) and the performance was terrible using 3 different ways of installing in Ubuntu. I resinstalled Windows and it's now working great!

I think RK3588 boards like the Orange Pi5 represent much better value for money. I think the days of the Pi's dominance in this space are coming to an end. The only thing keeping it hanging on at this point is community support honestly.

@sovo1212

4 ай бұрын

Community support it's in its infancy, but it's definitely there. It needs to be more massive first. But you have to keep in mind Orange Pi is a chinese company, and western anti-China propaganda is still strong, negatively impacting sales.

I'm waiting excitedly for the Compute module version of this, as pairing this with a 20-30 buck used and GPU could be amazing.

I can't believe Pi5 now can do PS2 emulation...thats amazing! I have a 3B+ and its pretty neat, awesome to see this tech growing. As for cooling, they have RGB coolers now and you know RPi AIOs are next lol

This is very well timed , my dad keeps getting these rubbish retro game machines from Amazon and I am thinking of just making a retro pi up for him

@fillerbunnyninjashark271

4 ай бұрын

Or just get a single board mini PC instead

@EastyyBlogspot

4 ай бұрын

@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 that would be a good idea...my worry is getting everything setup so my dad can use it.....has to be as simple as possible for him lol

@abzhuofficial

4 ай бұрын

​@@EastyyBlogspotIt's not as daunting as you think it is, especially when there are ways to idiotproof a retro gaming PC setup

@DarkestVampire92

4 ай бұрын

Considering Nintendo sells you two 50 dollar consoles with a small selection of games from NES and SNES... having one 100 dollar console that can do both, as well as N64 and Gamecube seems like a good deal to me.

@ItsASuckyName

4 ай бұрын

I have a pi 4 that I turned into a retro game console running Batocera. I have about 6000 games on it from almost every major retro console. Works very very good, when everything is installed and set up it is just a matter for your dad to turn it on, select a game and play. I even have a "nes for pi" case for looks.

If you can get one... out of stock for months and reservation for months.... :( definitly a beast for sure

@Cyrus_Nagisa

4 ай бұрын

Yeap, mine has been paid for and backordered since September 29th -.-

1:31 Love the struggle with the stubby fingers.

I'm more hoping if they make a compute module version that you may install in a handheld kit. There the form factor limitations would make sense unlike with mini PCs.

I don't think we've seen the max potential from the 5 yet. Too early IMO

RP has gone a long way and its also gotten a bit expensive. In my country it's more practical to grab a used Dell Optiplex or HP EliteDesk and get more out of it.

@betag24cn

4 ай бұрын

definitively, if the cost is the biggest factor for you, pi is not a option that used del is a viable option i personally would onlu buy a pi if i had a project in mind for it, just emulate games that i dont have the roms, no

@JanvanRosmalen-lc2vm

4 ай бұрын

We call that inflation :)

Definitely seems like an awesome option if you're looking for something you can toss in a bag or a pocket. Isn't gonna blow your mind, but definitely would be worthwhile to buy. I might have to upgrade my Pi 4.

Did you test it at native resolutions and then through the scaler to see if performance improved on some games?

With all the add ons needed to get all the power out of the RPi 5 you’re getting into Mini PC price territory.. and you can probably find a mini PC around the same price that runs better and has more support for programs. I use to love Raspberry Pi’s. Back when their top model was still pretty cheap it made for a decent little cheap emulation box. I still use my RPi 4 once in a while. But going forward (personally) I just don’t see the value for what you get anymore.

If only it could do PS5 😅

@arch1107

4 ай бұрын

you dont need to emulate ps5, just wait for the ps5 game to come to pc