Hey everyone! Hope y'all liked the video- I will do my best to get captions up as quickly as possible. In the meantime, if you want to show support, you can pick up the libel mug shown in the video (or a ton of other things) at my merch link here! Bonus: I will not accuse you of murder for saying the merch is cringe. store.nebula.app/collections/sarah-z

@FlareBlitzBanana

2 жыл бұрын

Just gonna leave a comment at the top here before the replies get flooded by brainrot. Good video Sarah. :)

@SpanielTower

2 жыл бұрын

Heck yeah! I didn’t order one in time before they were out of stock last time around so that’s super good! I have now ordered one!

@hotscottrulz

2 жыл бұрын

The merch is cringe… Just kidding just kidding, I’ve just preordered a “Young, Dumb, and full of Libel” mug. Video is fantastic as usual!

@purplenurple6278

2 жыл бұрын

yes i loved this video thank you for spilling tea on internet drama i knew nothing about

@Mia-wm8un

2 жыл бұрын

Will you be captioning the video about the Homestuck legal threat?

Sarah: the reading comprehension on this site is piss-poor bird app users: how dare you say we piss on the poor

@camiblack1

Жыл бұрын

Twitter I just Tumblr on a delay with a shorter word limit. I honestly think you didn't really get this sort of stuff until you had that Golden Age of fandom in the early 10s... and that's only of the three things that really kinda blended to make this mess.

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

thank you for this joke Pink Nintendo DS Lite

@crestren5996

11 ай бұрын

Sarah: *talks about the history on both sides and says harassing is still bad regardless* Pro-ships/antis: Wait a minute, she didnt agree with our stance *proceeds to harass and insult her*

@TheWandererOfDreams

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's some kinky shit......

@Bruh-zx2mc

7 ай бұрын

Me who read this as "how dare you say we piss on the floor" (I wager the additional nuance in using a rhyming and fitting word like "floor" instead of the same words rearranged makes the joke funnier, but that's my two cents)

these people have to be ai generated

@alexandrac6177

2 жыл бұрын

Next year: we made an ai read millions of fandom tweets and they harassed video essay KZreadrs

@0.-.0

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexandrac6177 😂

@lucidnonsense942

2 жыл бұрын

Typical meatbag comment, that is why you must be deleted to stop the oppression!

@vintheguy

2 жыл бұрын

when the tweeter is sus

@solidsteelcobra

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll bet more than a few of them are chan trolls and other bad faith actors.

see, the labels "proshippers" and "antis" are so reductive that i don't consider myself either, but what annoys me is both sides refuse to admit they've got weirdos who take it too far in their own respective circles.

@PikaPenny17

Жыл бұрын

From the video, it kind of seems like the weirdos who take it too far are the main ones, not the exceptions.

@overgrownkudzu

Жыл бұрын

@@PikaPenny17 yeah, people who aren't like that aren't going to attach some stupid label to themselves.

@PikaPenny17

Жыл бұрын

@@overgrownkudzu People who aren't weirdos can still attach labels to themself though.

@nejishadow

Жыл бұрын

@@overgrownkudzu proshippers (as in labeled themselves such in their descrip) and people who openly reblogged p*rn of minor / child characters kept following me on twitter so I put anti in my bio to show 1. Don't follow me and 2. I dont tolerate that behavior here And it worked. Only maybe had one person since then follow me who did that I like to think I'm not some weirdo just because I don't wanna see and don't want others to ship minors with adults, and relatives, and ESPECIALLY dont wanna see p*rn of it

@staysilent4392

Жыл бұрын

It's the vocal minority... but boy are they loud.

I wish instead of calling things "problematic" people would just say what actually happened.

@vhroom3436

Жыл бұрын

I have never agreed more to a comment in my life

@emilybarclay8831

Жыл бұрын

Most problematic things are not actually harmful in any way so if they did that they’d have to admit they’re just full of shit

@mcflurryfrostie

Жыл бұрын

That word has lost all meaning because of Twitter

@lakshaykochhar6799

Жыл бұрын

Deflection, my friend, deflection.

@EarthLordCJ

Жыл бұрын

If they just say something’s problematic, then they don’t need to bother with actually demonstrating their understanding about anything.

After watching this, I think the term “proshippers” needs to be reclaimed by professional ship-in-a-bottle builders, and “antis” needs to be reclaimed by ant-farm enthusiasts. Give these fine hobbyists their words back!

@phoenixfritzinger9185

2 жыл бұрын

Or postal workers

@monbub

2 жыл бұрын

The poor ants

@merrittanimation7721

2 жыл бұрын

Antishippers should be taken up by people who went to too many boat museums as a kid and now associate the ocean with hunger followed by cheap seafood which got them stuck in a hotel room with food poisoning for the next day.

@cameraman502

2 жыл бұрын

She said we've talked ship's of different types. But not once has she talked about frigates.

@kyletowers9662

2 жыл бұрын

@@merrittanimation7721 this seems oddly specific. Did this happen to you?

"are you a pro shipper or an anti?" "i'm in my twenties"

@Aima952

2 жыл бұрын

Scary thought: OG Star Treak fandom shippers are getting to an age where they are dying of 'natural causes' [college kids in the 60's = 80 now!!!]

@ElPayasoMalo

2 жыл бұрын

@@Aima952 Damn. The originators. batlh Heghjaj

@TYCOIX

2 жыл бұрын

yo you spitting straight bars

@notthecutestanimal8849

2 жыл бұрын

i wish. like sarah mentioned a lot of the people are adults. there are more than too many adults invested in this. im sure theres not many 30-40+ but even then i know theyre out there

@chewychibi03

2 жыл бұрын

lmao

Twitter really be the kind of place where you can say "I like pancakes" and someone else will take that as "I hate waffles"

@arambles1

Жыл бұрын

But… but I like that thing! I LIKE THAT THING! YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT THING-

@angrygoat9099

Жыл бұрын

​@Master Kohga, Top Banana of the Yiga Clan I think the more accurate prozd video that could be quoted here is the one where he loses his keys

@houraisheperd9721

Жыл бұрын

The entire internet is like that.

@InuMiroLover

Жыл бұрын

And someone will eventually warp that into "I hate gay people!" Like where did you even get that from?!

@forestc0re

Жыл бұрын

say "i like pancakes" and people decide you like kicking puppies too

My problem with Reylo is that it's the most boring enemies to lovers I have ever seen on screen

@PotatoHero524

2 жыл бұрын

preach lmao

@astrobookwormsinger

Жыл бұрын

Thank you😭 they had all the potential in the world. I still like them but makes me sad to think of what could have been. This applies for the Sequels in general too. Ah well time to go back to the niche corner of Old Republic fans.

@sollblook4866

Жыл бұрын

Talk about the most boringly subjective comment to ever been typed on youtube.

@nat2206

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I'm more of a Zutara (Zuko and Katara) shipper when it comes to enemies to lovers. It's more of a enemies -> friends -> lovers thing for them though.

@nemesi55

Жыл бұрын

This!! God it’s so irritating when people have to make everything into some moral rationale. I don’t give a shit if reylo is “problematic” or whatever, what I give a shit about is that the plot and characterization was sacrificed to make the ship canon. Seriously. They were so much more interesting as Just Enemies, No Romance. Kylo Ren just shows up at the end of the 3rd sequel all heroic redemption style just to get owned and thrown down a pit immediately, only to come back up and immediately fucking die for hetero reasons. God it’s so fucking lame. We didn’t even get a cool lightsaber battle at the end 😭

i strongly considered tweeting in defense of you at the time, but i talked myself out of it by imagining explaining the controversy to my grandma

@elizrebezilmadommdo1662

2 жыл бұрын

You need more likes.

@zoimanatou7348

2 жыл бұрын

Omg it's the one (1) icon 😍

@thepandanesianquetzal1158

2 жыл бұрын

this feels like a crossover episode

@MDArts666

2 жыл бұрын

Kinda speaks to how weird and out of left field some of this is haha. Who in my real life would understand any of this

@melvv18

2 жыл бұрын

It really puts into perspective when you try to explain this to not an online person.

wtf Sarah? I’ve just heard from some internet users that you literally support kicking puppies??? sorry but I’m gonna have to unsubscribe 🙄

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

Izzy I can’t believe you’re a needle cookie truther

@ChrisP6acon

2 жыл бұрын

@@SarahZ I'm sorry but there were LITERALLY glass in their cupcakes

@rianantony

2 жыл бұрын

Excuse me, the puppys pushed her off a bridge or something, she was on the right when you look at the facts

@micchikins4626

2 жыл бұрын

Those puppies know what they did.

@wheneveryousmile1

2 жыл бұрын

excuse me puppies brutally killed Sarah Zs mother when she was just a child. she is traumatized

I just want to point out that without ‘antis’ as their opposite, the label “pro-shippers” makes them sound like professional shippers

@phoenixfritzinger9185

Жыл бұрын

Stolen valor from our honorable postal and logistics workers all across the globe

@yunglynda1326

Жыл бұрын

seems apt

@aidantech5410

Жыл бұрын

"The shipping wars" sounds like some kind of international trade dispute

@davidkonevky7372

Жыл бұрын

Even then, the label seems to suggest you're in favor of people shipping in general, which is a much less controversial thing to say than "in favor of people shipping even if it's controversial/problematic" which adds to the point that it's a really dumb and misleading term

@user-vw4xp5nt9f

Жыл бұрын

@belombus noobshippers when proshippers walk in

The whole pro anti thing is so terminally online it's insane. If a fictional ship causes you THIS much anguish, and I mean this with complete sincerity, go outside. Honestly, as I got older I realized just what a waste of emotional energy it is to fight tooth and nail to defend my opinions on media as if I was defending my life and I feel 100x better for it.

@MrSlendyMannn

9 ай бұрын

I'm glad that you realised that over time. You're completely correct. If anyone lets a fictional ship cause them this much stress, they really do just need to step away from the internet for a bit and go outside.

@PrincessNinja007

9 ай бұрын

On the anti camp, it's not that I'm actually anti any ship, but as an ace it's frustrating af to be told it's whatever-phobic to read two people as just friends. Like before the Good Omens couple was canonized, it reminded me of myself and a QPP, and I thought it was super sweet and wholesome that two guys wrote their friendship into a book. If I ever said anything online about it though, it was "nuh uh, they're married and they kiss all the time in public and here's my xxx fic and if they remind you of you and someone else it's because you want to marry them. If you don't agree it's because you're homophobic and don't want gays in the media". Like, even AFTER the author came out and said people could read whatever they wanted into it, people chose to hear "just so long as it's super duper gay" and it's like, can't anyone ever just read people as friends who don't turn into werewolves and juck on main street?

@PrincessNinja007

9 ай бұрын

but that's less about any one ship or another, tbh, and is just an extension of my old wound of "if you're squicked out by smut you're a homophobe", but it's always been the loudest in shipping corners

@overgrownkudzu

8 ай бұрын

@@MrSlendyMannn it's also just not helpful. fandoms and shipping etc. at their core are supposed to be fun. if it turns into actual anger and stress and harm, and it seems like it does for a lot of these people, on both sides, that's not worth it.

@prench

8 ай бұрын

​@@PrincessNinja007that's the reasoning you have yeah but that doesn't make you not need to go outside? you're still getting upset about online ships.

"Sarah Z poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague upon our houses!" "She did?" "No, but are we just gonna wait around until she does!?" This is what twitter people sound like

@merrittanimation7721

2 жыл бұрын

“Let’s push something over!”

@rottenisee2751

2 жыл бұрын

sarah z sold me subpar copper

@BernardvonSchulmann

2 жыл бұрын

she sounds powerful, she should run to be elected an MP

@FauxRomano

2 жыл бұрын

It sounds like the actuality is nearly this, but they just lie and say "yes" instead.

@lydia-exe

2 жыл бұрын

this is mccarthyism

The irony of people commenting “you have never been the victim of a harrasment campaign” as a part of a harrasment campaign is palpable

@cardboardtubeknight

2 жыл бұрын

"Allow me to demonstrate!"

@supermansdaddy7019

2 жыл бұрын

I notice that people who are the loudest about cancel culture not existing are often the first to get mad at the latest punching bag on Twitter.

@scrotiemcb5858

2 жыл бұрын

Fact: the demographic most likely to perpetuate abuse is previous victims of abuse. (Please note that by "perpetuate" I am including both abusers AND enablers.) I'm not blaming anyone for being abused, but I am saying that a critical component of recovering from abuse is the rejection of normalization, in order to prevent the perpetuation of that abuse. Unfortunately many who are abused have difficulty fully recovering in this way.

@GummyDinosaursify

2 жыл бұрын

@@scrotiemcb5858 I'd argue that it depends on the person. Someone who is a victim of abuse either will go out of their way to avoid bringing that same pain to others, or will inflict it upon others so they can take back power they feel they lost. It really depends on the empathy of the individual. And unfortunately, abuse can also destroy someone's empathy.

@ByronAndOnAndOn

2 жыл бұрын

I love your profile pic Dilly! It looks like a robot Loudred, mixed with some Undertale things, very cool!

In times like these, maybe we should just remember Markipliers very inspiring words regarding stuff on the internet: "You do you, I do me and we don't do each other".

@JeromeSankara

2 жыл бұрын

"Probably."

@APaleDot

2 жыл бұрын

See this is actually the proshipper's position.

@jekblom123

Жыл бұрын

"You do you and I'll do me, and we won't do each other." is a proship take. The anti's take is "I don't like you doing you because you might do it to me, so I'll do you before that happens".

@nixxdra

Жыл бұрын

Don’t ya just love it when people on one side of the argument twist your words to make themselves look better. “We disagree, and that’s fine.” is of course a proship take. However it’s also an antiship take. Most proshippers I know just want to be left alone to ship what they want. Most antis I know want to be left alone from the kind of things proshippers ship, and yet there’s constant harassment from both sides. Funny. But the truth of the matter is op’s take is in theory both a proship and antiship mindset, but in practice it’s neither. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to downplay the actions of their side from to fit their own bias.

@jekblom123

Жыл бұрын

@@nixxdra Antis also try to "rehabilitate" people by cyber stalking and harassing proshipping minors.

This video is even more entertaining if you make a point of reminding yourself every 5 minutes that this whole sea of terminology, rhetoric, tribalism and hatred is, at its core, about fictional characters snogging.

@PassTheMarmalade1957

Жыл бұрын

You know how people say it's important to learn the difference between infatuation and love? This is what happens when you start seeing your thirst as some sort of calling.

@TheWandererOfDreams

10 ай бұрын

​@@PassTheMarmalade1957mhmm. I learned THAT from a French Baguette Intelligence video.

@anoyint

12 күн бұрын

I think that these discussions of character snogging have really fascinating philosophical merit, and should be seen in the eyes of the debaters as another way of working together to seek the truth, explore possibilities, and have fun, rather than as a ruthless war of irredeemable monsters against humanity's saviors or whatnot. No one actually knows anything, we need to remember that no one is actually evil, they just understand the world differently and do "evil" things as a result.

the term "anti-anti" is the single funniest label for any ideology ever. "I oppose people who are against. things"

@Alice-gr1kb

2 жыл бұрын

lon! ni li nasa mute

@cjh7361

2 жыл бұрын

woah hey bestie

@milesmartin9624

2 жыл бұрын

new ideology: anti-anti-anti i oppose opposing people who are against things

@dustycrustyhomelessman1648

2 жыл бұрын

anti ad infinitum

@thetwilightspirit69

2 жыл бұрын

Ppl generally go for proshipper. Id say its fair in a way to take an opposite position to people who are against something but sure it sounds dumb. But so does just the word “anti”, sounds like you’re just against things, like in general.

"Everyone should delete Twitter" is honestly a valid take. My life is happier without it.

@eddiem4268

2 жыл бұрын

indeed

@brycealthoff8092

2 жыл бұрын

I left all social media about two years ago and I’m better off for it.

@shifra1967

2 жыл бұрын

@@brycealthoff8092 Um KZread is social media

@brycealthoff8092

2 жыл бұрын

@@shifra1967 if you stretch the definition maybe. I consider KZread as video hosting site with delusions. You may be able to post photos and status updates, but that’s not the primary purpose.

@slhpproductions6707

2 жыл бұрын

Same

the whole pro and anti thing has always confused me tbh; my general take on it is: write/draw/etc what you want, but TAG & LABEL IT PROPERLY. that way, folks who don't wanna see it don't have to (unless they're the type of....odd folks who delve into tags for things they dislike instead of avoiding/blocking/etc...) and folks who do wanna see it can find it easier.

@StaleOreoCookies

6 ай бұрын

this is so true !!! i enjoy reading a fic that explores dark topics from time to time, but sometimes i'll read a fic and then go to the author's profile and find out from their other works that it was fetish content the whole time. it's not my job to pass moral judgment on that, but it's really not my thing and i imagine for other people it could even be triggering if they were looking for more therapeutic content instead. i wish fic authors would more consistently make authorial intent clear when writing these topics - something that they don't have to disclose personal experiences in order to do!!

@ouijabored000

4 ай бұрын

not saying this about antis (or pros or any group) specifically but just in general, ime zoomers have no idea how to tag. they can tag for traction, but a lot of them cannot tag content warnings appropriately if at all. i’m also saying this as a zoomer myself

@jennah5990

2 ай бұрын

THANK U

@toninot17

23 күн бұрын

unless they’re arseh0les, that’s literally smth the proship community is big on 😭 I mod a dead dove server, and we always make sure EVERYTHING is tagged. I’m proship, but I’m really more of a fluffy gal myself. I just think censorship is stupid

im a bisexual jewish man. i occasionally rep that pink triangle because... i am a bisexual jewish man. that symbol holds profound weight for me as a reminder of who i am and where i came from. something about a proshipper rainbow meat pin with symbolism like that on it just... confuses me. so deeply in fact that i cant even really feel offended. i just cant wrap my brain around why somebody would decide that's a cool and appropriate symbol to put on their internet fandom discourse participant badge

@blacktigerpaw1

2 жыл бұрын

Uh oh, you're going to piss off the Hannibal fans now.

@horrorhistory7342

2 жыл бұрын

…no lmao

@80Kpml08

Жыл бұрын

Gatekeeping much? Jk. Yeah that really sucks.

@overgrownkudzu

Жыл бұрын

i think these people are so chronically online that they simply overestimate their own importance by several orders of magnitude, when in reality, nobody cares and it doesn't matter.

@lakshaykochhar6799

Жыл бұрын

Wait, you're guy that Herbert Moon hates!! I can get your autograph:)😳

I'd say this is a weird hill to die on, but I'd probably be accused of mocking REAL KIDS WHO DIE ON HILLS.

@kronemerj

2 жыл бұрын

You monster ! Do you know how many children die on hills every year!

@Hotdogenthusiast

2 жыл бұрын

Jack and Jill

@Imps603

2 жыл бұрын

ARE YOU ASSUMING THAT THOSE HILLS ARE ALL CHILD KILLERS??? #NotAllHills

@Phos67

2 жыл бұрын

Go outside.

@Phos67

2 жыл бұрын

@@kronemerj Go outside.

"pro-shipper or anti-shipper?" "grass toucher"

@crowdemon_archives

2 жыл бұрын

Pet the grass.

@cassidycaroll

2 жыл бұрын

Lay in the grass.

@idek7438

2 жыл бұрын

Normally you don't want to call yourself a toucher

@lelolanga9074

2 жыл бұрын

Once every two to three weeks, I leave the house to touch grass.😌

@cassidycaroll

2 жыл бұрын

@@comicattt hope it becomes canon for you.

i always come back to the concept of "IRREDEEMABLE MEDIA: [show made for babies], [show made for babies], [show made for babies], [show made for babies]" when i need to smile. thank you

Don’t even TALK to me if you consume this irredeemable media: - Barney the Dinosaur - the Jetsons - Dragon Tales - Teen Titans Go - the Land Before Time - Mein Kampf

@arambles1

Жыл бұрын

oh god not barney

@hyalophora

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, I could never remember what The Land Before Time was called until seeing this comment

@the_last_ballad

Жыл бұрын

The only one of the shows that counts as irredeemable is TTG, as it sells itself as a reboot of the Teen Titans while failing to do anything to make it remotely applicable as that. As a standalone comedy, it's ok I guess, it clearly want made for older people who were fans of the originals, but the fact that it teased a season 6 of Teen Titans, that never was going to happen, to promote it's movie is irredeemable. Oh, and the rash of other shows copying it's formula of taking everything that their original show did well, and taking it out back to shoot it before flanderizing it's characters into literal mockeries... It can't be forgiven for that either.

@TikoVerhelst

Жыл бұрын

​@@the_last_ballad Ok, so I online watched TTG and never the original. I never understood where y'all were coming form. Now I can understand the hate. But I can say, on it's own, I think the show is pretty fun and I still watch it when it airs on Cartoon Network. Because I'm not a DC fan/don't know a lot about DC, TTG is also an easy way for me to learn about DC without actually diving into something I'm not really interested in. :) So yeah, I understand the hate, but having online watched TTG, I think the shows stands pretty well on it's own. Although, if I would have watched the original, I probably would hate TTG equally as much as you do. (I also have other "second shows" I hate because they made mockeries out of the characters I liked).

@amberhide04

5 ай бұрын

what did the jetsons do wrong?!?!???

"an author's personal experiences are none of our business". holy crap yes. creators don't need to trot out their traumas to "prove" that they have the right to write various types of content.

@evies.1018

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like this happens a lot in the YA-adjacent side of "book twitter" and adjacent book social media, like Becky Albertelli feeling like she was pressured into coming out because of all the comments (some decent criticism, like pointing out some ignorant comments about wlw in Simon VS, but some just vitriolic) about people assuming she was straight and getting mad at her for writing LGBTQ books. Or, on a similar note, Leigh Bardugo having to "justify" there being SA (maybe CSA? I have yet to read it so this is second-hand) in Ninth House by talking about her own experiences since a lot of people saw the content warnings and jumped right to "this must be for shock value!!!" and were being pretty awful to her about it. I really really don't like this trend of "you need to show all possible credentials to write about X, Y, and Z content!" and as a writer myself, it makes me very uncomfortable. The idea that I "owe" a potential reader knowledge of some of my worst experiences to "justify" writing a character who struggles with depression or panic attacks is not an idea that I like, same with having to out myself to "be allowed" to write LGBTQ characters when doing so could put me at risk. Anyways TL;DR I agree with you and also I hope that this way of thinking is on the way out.

@crowdemon_archives

2 жыл бұрын

@@evies.1018 oh man, it's one thing to write dark and heavy matters with careless abandon but one should be allowed to write about the same matters with, you know, proper research and care taken. Demanding that one must have the first-hand experience to write the subject matter is just going to limit a lot of literature out there tbh (and also, well, no way am I, an actually autistic individual, going to write stories that only involves how I perceive the world. It gets boring after a while, after all.).

@evies.1018

2 жыл бұрын

@@crowdemon_archives I agree! Why would I want to write every book with a character who has the same identities as me every time? It’d just get repetitive after awhile. Plus I like to write to explore other perspectives, I don’t want to only write about things I’ve gone through, especially since it can be really draining. Sure, some of my favorite characters in my writing are similar to me, but some of them are nothing like me and that’s why I like writing them: they let me be someone else for a while.

@nothankyou4752

2 жыл бұрын

there was a short period of time where people were weirdly obsessed with trying to prove that a game dev i followed was a cis woman who was just fetishizing gay people by putting them in their game despite the fact that they had talked multiple times about being gay and nonbinary and was generally a very private person anyway. as far as i can tell, the people accusing them were doing it solely to have a “morally correct” reason to not like their game. it was.... weird.

@evies.1018

2 жыл бұрын

@@nothankyou4752 I hate the trend of people feeling like they have to moralize their likes and dislikes. Some people really just don't get that you can dislike a thing without it being secretly the worst, most problematic thing ever.

"Fandom isn't as important as you think it is." Honestly, that sums up the entire thing.

@TheAkwarium

2 жыл бұрын

this didnt need to be an hour long video, this sentence alone sums it up

@kronemerj

2 жыл бұрын

Yep .

@johnbltz

2 жыл бұрын

This is true, but I do think it's important to place this conflict within the broader context of recent reactionary attempts to purge the internet of sexual content and sex workers. While I agree with Sarah that making "anti" or "pro" part of your identity is weird, that the "pro" side is just as capable of harassment as the "antis" and that both sides have a bad habit of overstating harm, I nevertheless still think that one of these positions ("antis") is fundamentally ideologically grounded in anti-sex reaction and it's important not to lose sight of that. As an isolated phenomenon fans yelling at each other over ships is completely trivial, but I think it is part of a larger sex-negative backlash that has very real consequences for artists, sex workers and queer people more generally.

@alienalien3609

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbltz that's more on the shoulders of big companies though, isn't it? I don't recall Tumblr, discord, and others being pushed into a corner because of Twitter arguments, but rather the rules put forth by Apple. I don't think internet spats is entirely to blame here, but rather the core beliefs of those in charge. I also think the 'anti-sex' part of this pro/anti war is terribly overstated and focused on when really it's just a fraction of the conversation. And as a big disclaimer, I believe sex workers have a right to a safe work environment and be able to make money. The banning of sexual works on so many platforms is utterly bizarre and stupid.

@k.v.7681

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbltz I'd say it does go both ways tho. I would be labeled an "anti" if I cared at all to debate fandoms (which I don't). I'd say the issue is not entirely "anti-sex". It can be the opposite, to un "unhealthy" degree. Especially for queer people, or LGBTQI+ at large (for other groups, I don't really know, Im not involved in them). Sexuality, trough ships can be "trivialised", or made an object, and that's not great either. I'm kinda tired of having my sexuality be a sort of trendy new handbag for girl teens who giggle about their GBF and decide who he should be with (in general, the crush she has herself). I used to roleplay on post-by-post forums. I stoped doing so when I reached the point where I would barely have created my character and have it shipped without any prior discussion because "he's cute" or "nice or "a bad boy that goes well with...". And I was like... I write for my fun and the fun of my writing partner, not your sexual gratification? While prior to that, it wasn't as usual. And I didn't shy away from more mature roleplays. But as the character evolved, not for a quick thrill. Like, sex shouldn't be shunned, or always serious, but a tiny bit of reverence for the importance of the topic would be a healthy addition.

"So are you proship or antiship?" I'm pro going outside!

@bria8481

Жыл бұрын

Not even going outside just get offline. Just go read a book, finish a puzzle, play a board game! The internet it’s everything

@TikoVerhelst

Жыл бұрын

THIS DESERVES MORE LIKES

@eicha41624

5 ай бұрын

So you mean you're anti-people staying inside?! How dare you!! REEEEEEEE

So I guess now we know why the Killing Stalking bit was taken out.

@ArcstoneBionicle

6 ай бұрын

I was WONDERING about that.

@no1legobatmanfan

6 ай бұрын

LOL

@pinkylove-xb7pe

5 ай бұрын

Why was it taken out?

@lalas181

5 ай бұрын

​@@pinkylove-xb7pe There was a reference in it to a video on the topic by a person named James Sommerton, and that person has now been very publicly exposed for (aside from some unpleasant but not illegal traits) plagiarizing like _all_ of the content in his videos and barely even trying to hide it.

@GeneralBolas

3 ай бұрын

@@lalas181 Oh, so *this* is where I'd seen Somerton before! When the HBomb video went up, I knew I'd seen the guy before, but I don't remember watching any of his actual videos. It must have been here.

"kylo and zuko aren't that similar" "YOU ARE HARASSING YOUNG GIRLS, VERY DISAPPOINTING"

@marocat4749

2 жыл бұрын

One is well consistent written

@pancakes8670

2 жыл бұрын

@@marocat4749 and the other is Kylo Ren

@zetanone7211

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Kanye, very disappointing

@MusicoftheDamned

2 жыл бұрын

@@pancakes8670 This is even funnier to me in reply to a "well-written character" given that somehow Kylo Ren is still overall the best written character in Disney's utterly blundered _Star Wars_ movies just because it's such a *low* bar. It also helped by Adam Driver being a good actor and basically no one else really getting character development over three entire movies.

@funsies8107

2 жыл бұрын

@@MusicoftheDamned Disagree, you can clearly see the development of Rei starting off as a normal Mary Sue, then at the end of the trilogy becomes the biggest Mary Sue ever That's development

that “fannibals are freaks who don’t take shit” screenshot has big “potterheads grab your wands” energy

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking "They targeted gamers. Gamers"

@pluto1906

2 жыл бұрын

i was about to try to make a hannibal version of potterheads grab your wands but “fannibals grab your meat” doesnt quite work

@SymbioteMullet

2 жыл бұрын

@@pluto1906 it does, but that ships individuals with themselves, which will cause recursive shipping, eventually creating a vortex to another dimension...

@DekuOfPower

2 жыл бұрын

@@SymbioteMullet somehow, the Oncler has returned

@rondeanichi3633

2 жыл бұрын

for the love of god please tell me where can i find your profile picture, i need that tired cat in my life

I always say: "Do what you want, just leave the children out of it."

@KaiserClone

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@unnatural2024

Жыл бұрын

That's actually a great way to put it.

@anubis7457

Жыл бұрын

@Mondlichts Humans are animals tho? No more humans then?

@aidantech5410

Жыл бұрын

Good point, thanks Kars

@virana999

8 ай бұрын

This can also be taken in multiple different ways, unfortunately.

Tumblr users when the webcomic "Killing Stalking" contains killing and stalking 🤯🤯🤯

I cannot imagine ever thinking "people disagreeing with me about fantasizing about same sex fictional characters being in love is exactly and literally the same as gay men being locked in concentration camps, starved then murdered"

@shellsilvers

2 жыл бұрын

The irony is that 70% of people in fandom spaces who argue about queer men arent queer men

@jfm14

2 жыл бұрын

Right? It's truly a mind-numbing concept.

@lgbtqiarights

2 жыл бұрын

@@shellsilvers b-but i like my cutesie uwu gay boys who i definitely dont fetishize or infantilize at all! /s

@GabrielCosta-xt1dv

2 жыл бұрын

@@lgbtqiarights Fetishizing characters is fine tho

@lgbtqiarights

2 жыл бұрын

@@GabrielCosta-xt1dv … that’s not the point of my comment. i am pointing out how people tend to fetishize gay relationships. also fetishizing fictional or real people sounds weird lol

I'm crying at BTS being "irredeemable media" 😭 wtf they arent even media they are real people

@nachoenjoyer8764

2 жыл бұрын

to be fair they have done a photoshoot at a holocaust memorial along with many other instances of anti blackness and cultual appropriation 😬 i wouldnt call them "irredeemable media" but rather "people who need to apologize for their past behaviors"

@wmstan1127

2 жыл бұрын

@@nachoenjoyer8764 That happened years ago, they apologized and are doing better these days

@fagioli7063

2 жыл бұрын

@@nachoenjoyer8764 While I don't listen to BTS and I can't talk about the situations specifics, I do know that the anti blackness is due to the continent in whole. Asia's history is racist, and it's still deeply into those roots which is why calling people bananas became so popular. And why wearing a lot of sunscreen is normalized, and lightening creams. It's truly sad.

@someonenamedgem

2 жыл бұрын

@@fagioli7063 It's reductive to lump the entirety of Asia into one category and then blame the behavior of a very specific group of rich South Koreans on an inherent trait of an entire continent of people as a whole. Skin lightening is a trend in a few (certainly not ALL) Asian countries arising from class differences--poor folk who worked out in the sun would be darker skinned, as opposed to rich folk who could stay indoors. Asia has a population of billions, and it's silly to make assumptions about all of them based on the celebrities you see coming out of Japan and Korea.

@saram5964

2 жыл бұрын

@@nachoenjoyer8764 you realize that most celebrities don't control what photoshoots they have, especially a k-pop group where its been proven k-pop groups have like no control over shit

i’m a non tax paying male child and even i sometimes find myself deep into fandom or online discourse and think to myself “I am a tax paying adult women” in order to help me realize how none of it really matters

@charlieandhisantics9954

4 ай бұрын

That is the best way to remind yourself things don't matter and I love that for you (I probably sound sarcastic I'm so sorry)

"some things are just meant to be understood, not supported or condemned" is such a good thing to remember

Before this: I'm a fan of things! After this: I enjoy things a normal amount, actually.

@crowdemon_archives

2 жыл бұрын

An average fan, vs the fanatics.

@supermansdaddy7019

2 жыл бұрын

One of the Supernatural actors (King of Hell? Sorry, not in that fandom) talked about why he hates the word “fan”, because it comes from fanatic, which implies loving a thing makes you a loon.

@drewmarteny1495

2 жыл бұрын

The solution is to be a fan of something where all the rest of the fans died so long ago that the news on the fandom you get is through archeology

@supermansdaddy7019

2 жыл бұрын

@@drewmarteny1495 Make The Lone Ranger, Doc Savage, and John Carter great again!

@Nemamka

2 жыл бұрын

I scrolled down just to say this lmaooo guess I'm just a casual enjoyer of things nowadays

I can’t believe they accused our girl of being a straight woman

@alexander8257

2 жыл бұрын

This happened with the TJLC video too 😭

@m00nrac00n

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine using "straight women" as an insult unironically

@alexandrac6177

2 жыл бұрын

@@m00nrac00n I hate being pluralized

@Healeon

2 жыл бұрын

It really says a lot too considering how easy it is to fact check that it’s not true.

@bibliophilecb

2 жыл бұрын

As a bi woman I felt that pain so hard. Truly the worst insult for us.

the pro/anti debate perpetuates black and white thinking so much

While I completely agree with everything you say here, I think another thing to note is the homogenisation of the internet and how it's forced adults and minors into the same space. There was A time where saying "you went to the adult internet so you ran a risk when you went there" held a level of water. That was how I was always taught growing up. Like there was the child internet with sites like club penguin and then the adult internet with stuff like Facebook or twitter. Children still used those sites but the culture around it was that it was fundamentally a risky thing to do. Like watching a r rated movie. Kids still did it but you go in with that mindset that "hey this might not be suitable for me" and even more importantly there was A place to retreat to if it got too much. I'm not saying that was ideal but now with the internet becoming a handful of monopolies, everyone is in the same space. Adults curating adult content with the expectation of being among peers then get their content recommended to children who aren't ready or comfortable to see that kind of content. Its like having a restaurant that used to serve fruit juice and wine so people could choose now just pouring both into the same vat and giving the combination it out to everyone. Kids are getting drunk when they expect to be getting fruit juice and adults are frustrated that their wine is having to be watered down. Or a video store just putting all their disks into a big pile and handing them out randomly. Kids are getting a splatter fest and adults are getting teletubbies. Truthfully this is why I actually really heavily support ao3 because of its robust tagging. It clearly labels what you're getting so you can avoid anything you aren't interested in. I've still absolutely seen some buck wild shit on there I haven't liked but I can be most of the time be reasonably certain if I'm getting a dead dove or not. The last thing I want is a site where problematic stuff isn't labeled for fear of being removed

@averyspecificdragon8780

11 ай бұрын

Yes to all of this. Kids and adults being made to share the same space because kids’ spaces are dying is an important thing to keep in mind imo. Kids really don’t have a safe place to go at this point. I feel like the debate is washed as just “puriteen” or “kids being annoying” when really they have nowhere else left. Some of the kids’ opinions and actions still suck, and they shouldn’t be excused for it. But idk it’s very sad. I wish there was still a kids table they could sit down at.

@pinky_pepper

8 ай бұрын

also like, i usually see kids virtual worlds brought up in this conversation like club penguin, etc., and the idea that they're dead/dying. imo they're not really dead, roblox just monopolized the kids virtual world scene. and roblox fucking sucks at keeping kids safe, i've literally walked into roblox games/places/experiences/whatever seeing ERP in public. and it's incredibly horrifying when you see two of those blocky avatars in a corner going at it and noticing that one types with little grammar and 3rd grader vocabulary and that the other clearly has written a professional email before. all this and roblox has just introduced 17+ content including dating

@hankboog462

4 ай бұрын

I'd never really thought about this but it's so goddamn true. It's this terrible situation where the internet is such a massive part of our lives that basically any kid is gonna want to use it, but there's nowhere their parents can point them that's *for* them anymore. I honestly think this being the case has a chance to bring forth a resurgence in parents making their kids spend more time outside as people who were thrust into the internet thunderdome as wee lads start becoming parents

@carolinemcgovern4488

4 ай бұрын

Yep and yep. I agree with all of this. I feel this is one of the main reasons behind many of the frustrations we see in this video.

@Man-ej6uv

3 ай бұрын

yeah i really wish there were spaces only for adults besides corn websites

I love naming everyone with the franchise they’re from as their last name “Sans Undertale” “Rey Star-Wars” “Zagreus Hadesgame”

@lordoftheducks332

2 жыл бұрын

A bit more of a niche example but I see variations of “Rita Penumbrapodcast” or “Rita [Redacted]”

@flip.2

2 жыл бұрын

Best way to do it

@hellohello-ic4dh

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus Bible and the slightly rocky relationship he has with his well-meaning but creepy estranged older brother Lucifer Bible

@nategraham1487

2 жыл бұрын

Harry Harry Potter

@rainpooper7088

2 жыл бұрын

Minecraft Steve Wait…

"I am a tax paying adult woman, not a member of a fucking fandom war sports team." Is the single most powerful quote I have heard in my entire life THANK YOU.

@hazzardalsohazzard2624

2 жыл бұрын

It will be used to cancel her though.

@bbshrimp

2 жыл бұрын

​@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 for real tho... people on twitter were actually attacking that statement as... elitist and classist or something? 🥴

@UnReaLgeek

2 жыл бұрын

I need it on a mug to go with the future "young dumb and full of libel" purchase

@PassTheMarmalade1957

2 жыл бұрын

@@bbshrimp If anything, this video has shown us that we shouldn't give a fuck about what Twitter has to say.

@bbshrimp

2 жыл бұрын

@@PassTheMarmalade1957 YUP exactly 100000% yes. At least the screaming idiots side of it anyhoo.

Pro-ship and anti-ship are just such.. chronically online terms. Just do what you want and block what you don’t want to see. Edit because I wasn’t expecting this comment to blow up and I realized I worded it poorly. There is more nuance to this, I am aware, I watched the same video you did. Things that are _actually illegal_ or cause serious real world harm shouldn’t be platformed, I’m not arguing with this. In turn, I’m not a big fan of censorship, even in little things like fanfiction archives, because it’s a slippery slope to some worse stuff, and fanfic archives are gonna be pretty interesting to some future historians. I’m just saying that - as the video states - separating “anti” and “pro” into binary terms doesn’t really help. Either you’re in support of literally illegal things, or you don’t want anything problematic in media. That’s… stupid. I’ve seen both sides of the argument a lot - comes with the territory when existing in MCYT fandoms - and I tend to say that the romanticization of abuse, the positive portrayal of bigotry, literal illegal things, etc, that’s fucked, that shouldn’t be platformed. However, for example, shipping that Hannibal ship - or the like - isn’t like a crime, mate, it isn’t going to hurt anyone, it’s just these guys’ fucked up relationship. What is the romanticization of abuse, though? God, I don’t know. That’s why I’m not the one writing the internet laws, that’s why I’m the one who didn’t _word this comment right_ and got a comment about it and am now fixing it to make it clearer (hi Crunchy Leaf /nm). Is Hannigram the romanticization of abuse? Maybe, they seem to have a fucked up relationship. Maybe it’s nuanced. Maybe whether something is “problematic” should be judged on a case by case basis, you know, barring stuff that’s _actually illegal._ In conclusion, I don’t know what I’m talking about, not really, I’m just a random person who’s talking about discourse they have really tried to stay out of because being cancelled/called out sounds _really stressful,_ but, I’ll rephrase my original comment, to make my points more clear - points I was trying and failing to make when I first wrote this comment all these months ago: Pro-ship and anti-ship are such chronically online terms. Just do what you want, barring literally illegal stuff, and judge things on a case by case basis, rather than defining your whole personality around and internet discourse. Also block what you don’t want to see, and report stuff that is against the TOS or the social media you’re using and/or the literal law, because being platformed is not a right. Have a nice life, and sorry for the confusion. Also, idk, thanks for all the likes and comments? Some of them were critical, but you weren’t antagonistic about it which my little brain very much appreciates.

@blacktigerpaw1

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen a few pro shippers say if you don't like certain ships/criticize them you're on the level of an anti vaxxer and white supremacist.

@kays8976

2 жыл бұрын

People are saying I support real life abuse and I have an Ugly look on life because I ship something from a cartoon (that’s canon and they got a happy ending)

@viking-astronaut

2 жыл бұрын

You just described proshippers with that statement though lol

@balknbarbie

2 жыл бұрын

@@viking-astronaut nah antis r way more into it than pros

@blacktigerpaw1

2 жыл бұрын

@@balknbarbie Depends. I see pro shippers call people anti vaxxers if they criticize anything. They're not as pro free speech as you think. Many of them railed against Sarah for this video.

Having watched this I have come to one simple conclusion: Plato was right about expelling the poets. Plato: People shouldn’t be exposed art until they’ve developed a capacity for critical thinking. Myself: That is absurd and unreasonable. Antis: *Screaming about how watching Steven Universe is genocide apologia* Proships: *Screaming about how if you criticize any art ever you’re a fascists* Myself: Never mind you were right, some people just shouldn’t be exposed to art until they’ve developed critical thinking skills

@thainganpham9705

Жыл бұрын

I think this is applicable to the whole “fiction doesn’t/does affect reality” stuff. Because so long as you are able to have critical thinking skills and be critical about the media you consume fiction doesn’t affect your reality. But it can be difficult borderlining on impossible to expect a huge mass of people to have the same critical thinking skills (which is often acquired by a mixture of experience and upbringing) so then fiction does affect reality. It’s so, in Sara’s word, wild that both sides refuse to acknowledge any sort of nuance and insists that you are either A or B which is…not how things ever worked.

@blixer8384

Жыл бұрын

@Raiden Kunikuzushi Plato’s Republic is where this idea comes from: Mind you The Republic is rather like the Bible where if you read it and take it at the surface level interpretation Plato appears reactionary. It’s important to recognize that when Plato criticizes Democracy through the character of Socrates he is criticizing democracy as it existed in Ancient Athens which was far from the platonic ideal of democracy as it were. Athenian Democracy was rife with corruption and lacked a written legal code and dominated by wealthy interests. In Plato’s Seventh Letter Plato actually defends the Democracy established in the Revolution against the 30 Tyrants. Stating that while there were some excesses the new Democracy was restrained in it’s pursuit of vengeance and was more good than bad. A remarkably charitable description of the government that put Socrates to death. And in the Republic itself Socrates state that democracy is deeply flawed Democracy is the only of his four types of Government (Timarchy, Oligarchy, Demicracy, and Tyranny) that allows for the pursuit of philosophy. Edit: Additionally Plato was speaking more broadly than just simple fiction. Poets weren’t just simple authors and playwrights; poets were authors, propagandists, historians, and theologians all rolled into one. Poets directly influenced how people thought of the gods, history, and morality in ways modern Authors could only dream of. Alcibiades got Athens to go to war against Syracuse by appealing to the poetic images of Greek Heroes. Imagine if in 2003 George Bush went before Congress and said we should invade Iraq because we’ll be just like Harry Potter and Congress responded by unanimously voting to declare war on Iraq: that was what Athens was like in the time period the Republic is set.

@lakshaykochhar6799

Жыл бұрын

@@blixer8384 Propagandists, Shippers. What's the difference??

@EarthLordCJ

Жыл бұрын

@@thainganpham9705 Better yet, utilising critical thought when consuming art allows you to consciously understand what the art is trying to say to you. In this way, you can choose whether to reject or embrace the art for what it truly is, without having it completely rule over you in a manner that you don’t recognise or comprehend. It also allows you to avoid tying up too much of your personal identity or emotions to a particular piece of media, meaning you can also avoid being a ‘worst bird-app user’.

@missingaria2503

Жыл бұрын

This is why most decent English/Lit teachers will automatically give you a higher grade if you just write about something vastly different from your classmates. You have to do a book report on Of Mice and Men? I promise your teacher doesn't want to read you saying the same bs about Lenny that literally everyone else in your class is saying. Write about Candy, and how he's a statement on how older folks have 'no place' in impoverished society and how he feels unwanted in spite of everything he has done (and continues to do) and how supportive he is of their community as a whole. Most folks don't think critically in a healthy way though and make life harder for themselves and those around them as a result.

My favorite internet moment is when I read a DNI list that included “Paw Patrol”. I printed it and “DNI IF YOU INTERACT WITH THE PAW PATROL FANDOM” is on my dorm room door.

@fairycat23

2 жыл бұрын

That's amazing omg

@TheGrinningViking

2 жыл бұрын

"Fat or thin, short or tall, A pig is a pig no matter how small" Feel free to take that one out of context because hot damn do my drunken grandma's quotes about cops really pop when you're taking about paw patrol. 👍🏼

@browncoat697

2 жыл бұрын

My guess is that Paw Patrol is a problem because it's making cops look cute and cuddly to kids rather than being the vicious killers they actually are, and my response is "k."

@quiondasjj9293

2 жыл бұрын

@@browncoat697 it’s a kids show. Chase isn’t even the fan favorite, everyone knows Everest is the best one, that’s why she literally got promoted to main character

@zk5228

2 жыл бұрын

@@browncoat697 Yeah lol, that's more or less the argument I've heard, and it's a legit criticism. But god, if this take isn't hilarious. It creates such a funny picture of the chain of logic in these people's heads- Policing systems are fundamentally broken because they create an antagonistic relationship between the community and those in power -> these systems are nevertheless glorified in the media, in large part because police target minorities -> media that misleads people about the nature of the police helps perpetuate the system -> kids' media sanitizes policing too -> Paw Patrol makes police look cute and friendly -> therefore, if a tired caretaker absentmindedly allows a child to watch an episode of Dog Rescue Cartoon, they are at best indifferent to police brutality and at worst supportive of it, and should not be spoken to.

I hate shipping

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

I can't believe you LITERALLY just said you support firing babies from cannons. What the fuck Minerva

@FelisImpurrator

2 жыл бұрын

@@SarahZ Ew, firing babies from canons. Firing babies from OCs is the only acceptable way.

@angusmcnay5449

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly. What's next, CATEGORIZING the kinds of people behind certain ships? Truly despicable an idea. Love your vids

@nonsensicalabyss

2 жыл бұрын

So true theyre always so expensive

@pheela

2 жыл бұрын

@@nonsensicalabyss it's always like 80% of the product cost

I really don't like Lore Olympus. I think it mishandles its themes around sexual assault, toxic relationships, etc and didn't give enough content warnings before delving into those things. At least in the format I tried reading it. So I just stopped reading it. I moved on with my life to things I enjoy instead of fixating on a piece of media I didn't think was the best. What a concept lol

Ironically, this video has once been uncomfortable to consume for me. Now that the grim fandom memories have faded, I happily watched it. Thank you Sarah for making it

@no1legobatmanfan

Жыл бұрын

Ive had the exact same experience. this came out around the time i started using tumblr, got told horrendous stuff by “proshippers” and so this video has me very very scared, but now im able to consume it easier.

@niichimera1344

Жыл бұрын

@@no1legobatmanfan really? 👀 I'm happy we both made it through... drama will (sadly) not cease to exist but maybe we can heal :) (back in 2021, i was in one extremely niche community, covid was in its full force and to me they were most of my contact with the world. it had its own frictions, but one day a group of very puritanical "antis" came along and shit hit the fan... turning one friend against another while catching everyone else in the crossfire *sigh*)

@DriftPiss9000

7 ай бұрын

Honestly same. Staying away from shitheads has really given me more clarity

"YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THE VICTIM OF A HARASSMENT CAMPAIGN" -harassment campaign

@rabnerd28

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who was threatened to be doxxed for AOT shipping (a fandom I am not in anyway invested in) this is literally how they act. They will harass you and have people target you and when you try and defend yourself they will say you're the bad person for being mean to them.

@hakulives2613

2 жыл бұрын

The lack of self-awareness is STAGGERING

@crypticcorvid

2 жыл бұрын

"It seems you've never been harassed before. I will change that!"

@angusmcnay5449

2 жыл бұрын

Also peep my cameo at 29:07

Never actually using Twitter seems to be the most self-care thing I've ever done for myself lol

@heatweve

2 жыл бұрын

this is what i'm thinking throughout the whole video

@hakulives2613

2 жыл бұрын

I deleted mine a few months ago and my mental state has DRAMATICALLY improved

@Man-ej6uv

2 жыл бұрын

Same

@Famously5518

2 жыл бұрын

every day i’m just more and more glad i never made an account

@pinkpink-kb6dl

2 жыл бұрын

Feeling thankful I'm too stupid to figure out how it works

I just hate that survivors of csa and csem like myself get used as a gotcha for both sides

@EdotJdotOriginal

11 ай бұрын

Reminds me of when people use legality to denote either a morality or a naturalness, I have my views and there are those who have been molested who would support, as well as those who wouldn't. The implication that these people are 'on the right side' or are just used as fodder is toxic in discussion as it boils complexities of the human experience to a card with the words "they are on my side" and it's just dumb to see on either side.

@failurenotsorry6600

5 ай бұрын

yeah, and is very sorry this shit happens.

My favorite part of this video is every time Sarah refers to a character by their name, their content (“Rey Star Wars”). It’s like when you have a guy’s name in your phone saved as “Josh Hinge”

@garbagegremlins4707

Жыл бұрын

Or when rhys from borderlands didn’t have a last name so he’s just Rhys (borderlands) even tho he has a last name now

@umalunatica

Жыл бұрын

Sans Undertale in the Tumblr sexyman poll

@faggysock2395

Жыл бұрын

sans undertale

@TikoVerhelst

Жыл бұрын

Also reminds me a bit of how Americans say town names; Denver, Texas or something like that. I like it, it makes it sound like all these francises are different countries the characters live in.

@daveyboi3036

8 ай бұрын

Tfw the internet is reinventing last names (like how "smith" came from... being blacksmiths. Some family of guys one day was known as Joe who made my knife, Joe the blacksmith, and then Joe smith.

Me, last night: “I wonder why Sarah Z deactivated her Twitter?” Me, 17 minutes ago: “Oh. Ohhhhhh.”

@eduardofeijolle8049

2 жыл бұрын

A wise decision.

@jessc.3958

2 жыл бұрын

Right? Just had the exact same "a-ha" moment.

@bluestarthestar

2 жыл бұрын

Oh shit I hadn’t noticed that lmao

@alexklepp6479

2 жыл бұрын

@@eduardofeijolle8049 Agreed.

@Sasu123456789x1

2 жыл бұрын

Omg

That statement about She-Ra and why that would be problematic just kinda hurt my soul. I grew up in group homes myself and no, no those are not my siblings. Growing up together doesn't mean you're friggin related.

@annabeinglazy5580

2 жыл бұрын

I was watching this and thinking If those people have never seen childhood friends get together. It's a pretty common media trope and one that makes me tired but you can indeed know someone since you were toddler and then 15 years later Fall in Love with them. This is probably how a lot of our grandparents dated at a time when you stayed in your community, didnt have social Media and had a quite tight knit social circle. Dating your Kindergarten friend = incest is Just.... My brain hurts

@cjboyo

2 жыл бұрын

I literally am disgusted by people who say that She-Ra is problematic because it had friends-enemies-lovers and because they were childhood best friends.

@k.morningstar7983

2 жыл бұрын

if one of the characters were a male, this would never be seen as "problematic", it would be seen as an expression of the "childhood best friend" trope. per the person who seems to be responding to me without responding to me, i say that what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

@sboinkthelegday3892

2 жыл бұрын

Being groomed is a different thing from being related. The grooming of children is what people actually have a problem with. Being related without grooming is entirely exclusive from sex, so that's a non-problem self-evident from the lack of that sexual relationship. The problem with growing together is when it isn't shown to include that growth and leads directly to a sexual outcome of growth anyway. That IS what happens to groomed children taught that this is normal. By shows like She-ra I might add. This is the DIFFERENCE between fiction and reality, if somebody remains confused about it. Those who think it's the same as "the childhood friends" trope are just exposing themselves as people who CAN'T TELL if a childhood friend is starting to finish their sexual development, but would call it a non-factor and get into it anyway. For those people we need an egg timer and to tell them no snu-snu until the bell rings.

@vlad5042

2 жыл бұрын

@@sboinkthelegday3892 i'm really confused by what you're trying to say here. is this still related to she-ra??

this is why i like that the dead dove do not eat tag exists lol

@lilacpen8678

Жыл бұрын

Ah, the wonderful and traumatizing things one can find under that tag. Truly a thing of beauty.

@dr-amethyst-77

Жыл бұрын

@@lilacpen8678 ahhhh nothing but the best

@garbagegremlins4707

Жыл бұрын

@@lilacpen8678 my favorite

I'm so tired of proshippers and antis expecting everyone to take one of those two sides when the first one is "if you criticize any media for any reason, you are literally pro censorship" and the second one is "if you write a story where someone gets murdered, you literally support murder." Like idk both sides look terrible and I don't want to get too closely involved with either. I'm anti-all of this shit and pro-taking a nap.

I despise some people’s use of “problematic” because they mean either a piece of media has a single bigoted character or that a piece of media is encouraging and praising an ideology based in eugenics.

@TricksterModeEngaged

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's not meaningless as a term but it is so broad that without clarification it doesn't tell you anything meaningful

@ElliottBelser

2 жыл бұрын

"Problematic" is a word with all the precision of dropping one gross of balloons filled with paint off the top of the Empire State Building.

@Nekoszowa

2 жыл бұрын

The word "problematic" and "toxic" have lost their meaning a long time ago. Right now it it just begs to be laughed at and not taken seriously.

@unicornsprinkles8964

2 жыл бұрын

It’s somehow taken on the meaning of “nothing, but people get mad out of it” AND “it’s literally evil, but I don’t want to be impolite”

@GaldirEonai

2 жыл бұрын

It's some Schrödinger's Cat shit. It means both of these things simultaneously in quantum superposition.

"Accused of being a straight woman" I'm sorry you had to go through this trauma and suffering

@chrisholcomb5037

2 жыл бұрын

The heteros are terrible, though. It's a mean thing to say.

@overgrownkudzu

2 жыл бұрын

well, this is indirectly claiming she's lying about being part of a marginalised group which if you know anything about twitter you will understand is a really, really bad thing to be accused of

@3173_Delta

2 жыл бұрын

Yikes I really hope you're joking... She never said anything about trauma and suffering, she *was* acused, people claimed she was something with mean-spirited intentions, because twitter thinks being straight is a bad thing, claiming someone has done something that you think is wrong is the definition of acusing.

@danielwalker4691

2 жыл бұрын

@@3173_Delta while the video may be about a different situation, you have supplied a very similar outcome

@danielwalker4691

2 жыл бұрын

@@overgrownkudzu twitter is the new 2012 tumblr

Every time I think "hmm, I should get back on twitter for x reason" I'm reminded of how insanely toxic and damaging the site can be at times. Holy shit Sarah, I'm so sorry that all of this happened to you.

@ikebirchum6591

Жыл бұрын

The only good things Elon Musk has ever done are fund SpaceX and kill Twitter

“How did we get here?” "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." -The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

@unicornsprinkles8964

2 жыл бұрын

Still think it’s a bad move tbh

@epicmarschmallow5049

2 жыл бұрын

Hitchhiker's guide is so iconic

@phoenixfritzinger9185

2 жыл бұрын

Wait so that wasn’t from Good Omens?

@BlueGangsta1958

2 жыл бұрын

@Moira O'Deorain I don't think so, but I've often seen it attributed to Terry Pratchett so maybe that's where the confusion comes from

@Dachusblot

2 жыл бұрын

@@phoenixfritzinger9185 Nope, it's from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but it does sound like something that would be from Good Omens. They're both probably irredeemable somehow.

As a person who isn't engaged in fan culture, watching this is like watching the political debates of aliens.

@sylviapage61

2 жыл бұрын

same. I was blown away by every new twist and turn, like completely baffled

@louklake5552

2 жыл бұрын

That’s such a great way to describe it! Hahaha

@kanatahiba

2 жыл бұрын

Expect one side of these debate is trying to ruin irl life of the other, a lot of times they doxx and tell the families of the target what they're into, and ruined their job and life.

@thestarsands

2 жыл бұрын

Me with ‘beauty’ youtuber drama:

@loveandcupcakes100

2 жыл бұрын

That’s really all you need to know. That’s exactly what fandom discourse is!

I think irredeemable media lists containing things like Steven universe are funny when things like A Serbian Film exist.

The combination of social media and fandom have shown that either there aren’t enough therapists in the world, or they need to be way more accessible.

@sampagano205

Жыл бұрын

Both are true.

This didn’t make me pro or anti shipping, this just pushed me closer to anti internet

@stuxinator8187

2 жыл бұрын

I think it made me somehow even more anti humans.

@chumboxx3103

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I'll go touch some grass after this

@YukiAndZeroFTW

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly. Just shut it all down, cancel the whole thing, we're done.

@undercoverfangirl5491

2 жыл бұрын

It didn’t do anything for me. It just confirmed what I already know. Pro and anti are just humans who all do shitty stuff sometimes. So yeah.

@redsands1001

2 жыл бұрын

I just need how-to videos/guides.

Every time I watch a Sarah Z video I feel like I am an 80 year old woman whose granddaughter is explaining what she's learning in school which is wild because I am like four years younger than her

I don’t consider myself proship or anti because, like you, I’m an adult. However, AO3 does absolutely need to get better moderation. I’ve seen R34 of real life minors, and I cannot for the life of me understand why this is acceptable. Even certain websites developed SOLELY for the purpose of hosting R34 material (e.g. Paheal) have rules against this. There’s a lot of weird stuff on Paheal, and who am I to judge, but you still can’t upload NSFW art or edits of real life minors because that’s fucked up

@joshthefunkdoc

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, there was a huge blowup over a newer site that's trying to be a safer AO3 (Fanexus) outright stating they won't ban "minor-attracted people" on a site that allows minors. A very large chunk of the active proship community vocally supported this (though in fairness, some were opposed to the "allowing minors" part). These circles tend to use a lot of "no point in banning since they'll just lie to get in anyway" logic - make of that what you will.

@ilexdiapason

2 жыл бұрын

i dont think ao3 LIKES hosting smut about real life minors but since technically a child wasn't harmed in the process it's not illegal to write it and so they have to in accordance with their "we can't go down the route of choosing what to exclude" attitude

@eccentric_creampuff4983

2 жыл бұрын

@@ilexdiapason this might be random but I RECOGNIZE UR USER AND PFP FROM AO3 AND I DID A DOUBLE TAKE!! i LOVE ur works ur a rly good writer!!

@internetexplorer6304

2 жыл бұрын

@@ilexdiapason man that's messed up

@viking-astronaut

2 жыл бұрын

The point is, if they start banning R34 of irl minors because people find it unethical, others will start to call for banning all R34 of irl people in general, not just minors. But people have used Real Person Fiction for things like political criticism as well, including 18+ imagery. So banning that would be against freedom of speech, and very exploitable. That would mean no more edgy jokes criticising politicians! And that's a really bad thing.

reading the screenshots of the tweets on this video just overcomes me with a sense of dread over the reminder that this is what we, people who choose to use twitter regularly, expose ourselves to so frequently that we become desensitized to it, when, in fact, It Sucks

I personally ship myself x a good night of sleep personally

@Queenofobscurepairings

2 жыл бұрын

How dare you shamed Insomniacs! We are people too. Why don’t you date us! Bigot!

@Detlaff_Official

2 жыл бұрын

@@Queenofobscurepairings Sorry chief, but sleep is too good to pass on

@Queenofobscurepairings

2 жыл бұрын

@@Detlaff_Official hehehe

@lillianv6805

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, telling people who have bad sleep to kill themselves. Very classy. /joke

@shutupstupid5630

2 жыл бұрын

Disgusting

my favorite thing ever is when someone casually mentions a 'cancelled' creator, and when someone comments "wait, what did they do?" the replies are filled with the most heinous list of lies and twitter broken telephone rubbish.

@riley8385

2 жыл бұрын

My favorite is when the person is still just there making money because extremely online nerds don't really affect anyone's lives.

@noisemachine5731

2 жыл бұрын

The list is always like. Racism, lesbophobia, child exploitation, jaywalking, being friends with *insert other problematic person*

@sycoraxrock

2 жыл бұрын

“Contrapoints is literally a TERF” that one’s my favorite because… how?

@overgrownkudzu

2 жыл бұрын

@@sycoraxrock she also HATES nonbinary people, after making a whole video on the validity of nb people

@sycoraxrock

2 жыл бұрын

@@overgrownkudzu Oh yes. Because “I don’t personally understand but you’re still valid and I’d like to actually understand rather than just parroting what i’m ‘supposed’ to say” aaaactually means “pronouns in bio lol”

The minor vs adult fan divide seems so manufactured and ridiculous - especially considering that most writers in the fandoms I visit are 14-22 years old so basically we're all really young

@Man-ej6uv

3 ай бұрын

it's just different flavors of child

What I took away from this is that depiction is not endorsement, but framing can be. A work of fiction can include dark themes without framing it in a positive or negative light. Likewise, you can frame a story to show certain actions as being good or bad. If you write a story about a killer, that isn't an endorsement of murder. The killer can be a protagonist without being a hero, and both sides can be seen as complex without painting one as "good" or "bad". However, if the killer's behavior is always rewarded, if the killer is shown in a sympathetic light, and if the people opposed to the killer are shown as bad for trying to stop them, etc., that can be considered an endorsement. It's all about the message that the story portrays. It's the difference between "this is what they did" versus "this is what they should do".

"the reading comprehension on this site is piss poor." "you piss on the poor?"

Bullying people by accusing them of being bullies is so trendy these days.

I'll never understand why so many people online assume "stating disagreement = an attack".

@yunglynda1326

Жыл бұрын

its bc of perceived clout of the poster and then reacting by doing some misdirected grandstanding

It sounds like both groups are just people with too much time and not enough purpose in their lives.

@olivia8243

5 ай бұрын

I've never seen a more concise summary of the whole drama than this

@Man-ej6uv

3 ай бұрын

if they were living through a war they'd be silent bruhhhh

I think a thing that a lot of people don't realize (especially younger people) is that it's ok to enjoy things with problematic aspects. You can be critical of a piece of media and not agree with certain parts of it and still deeply enjoy it. Liking things with problems doesn't make you a bad person.

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

There is also no such thing as unproblematic media. If someone can use the Dominio's Pizza mascot as a justification to shoot people...well anyone can use anything to do bad things...and people should learn this.

@tigerfestivals5137

2 жыл бұрын

@@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality i think that, with pure fiction, it's nigh impossible for me to justify labeling any work as "problematic" in this sense because the problem is the consumer in virtually every case rather than the work itself. To claim otherwise is to deny humans of their agency and personal responsibility.

@toothfairy10133

2 жыл бұрын

every human has flaws and so every piece of media will have flaws. all of us have grown up in a world which gives us some sort of inherent bias about something, and in some situations it's really difficult to toe the line between tropes. like for example the "perfect, pure, gay character who can do no wrong" trope is partly a result of people trying to avoid the "queer villain" trope, and any queer or even queer-coded character could be argued to fall into either trope if they're complex. you're never gonna find a perfect piece of media anyway, so why not just enjoy stuff? as long as ur aware of the problematic aspects there's no reason you can't consume it (within reason ofc)

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

@@toothfairy10133 Very true. I went to a training at my work recently talking about this because no one can know everything about every people group on the earth and being willing to listen is the most important but it's not something we should tear others apart for because no one learns or gets better that way.

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

@@tigerfestivals5137 Exactly. Very good points.

The whole "if this middle schooler murdered someone, would it be ok to dunk on them then?" reminds me of that episode in Community where the AC Repair School finds out who murdered the Vice Dean and are like "Take this man to the infinite labyrinth of eternal ice" and Troy just says "No, take him to the police. He murdered someone."

@intergalactic-oboist

2 жыл бұрын

Streets ahead analogy my friend

@vanillaseahorse4228

2 жыл бұрын

It reminded me of that one Tumblr ask where someone said "What if a white child was dying of cancer and their last wish was to say the N word. Would that still be bad?"

@lucyx3008

2 жыл бұрын

@@vanillaseahorse4228 i was about to say I'd like to take a peek inside the mind of a person who likes to come up with hypotheticals like that. but no, i really don't.

@stevegruber4724

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucyx3008 As a former "that person," it's not all that bad. Teenagers/young adults spend a lot of their mental energy on finding the edges of what is acceptable and keep a log of taboo subjects in their head, and possibly a ranking of least to most taboo (this is why "I just wanted to get a reaction" or "I did it for the lulz" or whatever Gen Z calls it is a justification, it is a way of teasing out how taboo something is). You then randomly combine two taboo things until you get something that is logically consistent. In the cancer versus racism example, you pit two of the worst things against each other and as a way of teasing out whether more people hate the N-word, or more people feel sympathy for child cancer patients. At some point, you learn about the trolley problem and switch the hypothetical to something like "the trolley is going to kill hitler, but you can pull the lever to make it kill stalin, what do you do?" I grew out of it by like mid-20s, most people seem to grow out of it, or the examples become more subtle because instead of trying to find the extrema you start searching for the boundaries of your in-group, or you've settled on your own boundaries and no longer care too much what anyone else's are.

Thank goodness I don't use Twitter... But seriously, I can't imagine meeting these people in real life. Pro-shippers? Antis? Like, how unhinged are these people that fictional characters non-canonically (in most cases) being together is any sort of issue? I understand both sides, as a writer who enjoys the value of creative freedom but also as a logical human who understands the necessity of boundaries. And both sides sound like they have too much free time on their hands. "Go outside" is a severe understatement.

@draconicfeline6177

Жыл бұрын

Its very touch grass... but its also post pandemic and most of us are a bit grass starved, I guess.

You would think the stereotype of shippers and anti-shippers would be that shippers are teenaged and anti-shippers are "out of touch" adults. Kinda weird how it's flipped from what one would expect.

@APaleDot

2 жыл бұрын

It's sad that Millennials might be the most progressive sex-positive generation we see in a while. We have the anti-lgbt puritans before us (the boomers), and the sex-negative puritans coming after us (the zoomers). Oh well, maybe the zoomers will grow out of it.

@chiptuna8292

2 жыл бұрын

@@APaleDot I don't think I'd call it sad, but sure.

@SukiNoKoe

Жыл бұрын

Lol it's the opposite. Basically such things make kids uncomfortable but adults like "spicier" fiction as they grow older because they start to find vanilla fiction boring...and there's really nothing more to it than that.

@alexander_markovski

10 ай бұрын

@@SukiNoKoe to be fair, i thought the same thing when i first watched this. maybe because i'm a gen z with a healthy relationship with sex/sexuality and have irl and online friends who share that. i recognised early on that there's nothing forcing me to consume media that makes me uncomfortable. i'm not a tiktok gen z, by which i mean the more chronically online, must seek out things i hate to be mad at it, gatekeeping over "correct" fandom behaviours kind of gen z. i'm so used to the discourse being "young people are too liberal these days" that hearing adults in their 30s referring to people as "puriteens" feels like i've been ejected to an alternate reality.

@SukiNoKoe

10 ай бұрын

@@alexander_markovski Wish there were more gen z people like you :( you sound very cool

As hbomberguy said a couple of years ago: "when someone stops defending their position to defend their right to have a position, something wrong happened"

@FelisImpurrator

2 жыл бұрын

Based

The most problematic ship is the Ever Given x Suez Canal

@oneiros0092

2 жыл бұрын

How can you even beat this comment

@katherinealvarez9216

2 жыл бұрын

I was rooting for those two crazy kids. Oh well.

@laurynwatters9490

2 жыл бұрын

Does this count as enemies to lovers?

@markkoehr5003

2 жыл бұрын

If the Suez Canal couldn't handle the Ever Given's needs, that was the Suez Canal's problem.

@laurynwatters9490

2 жыл бұрын

@@markkoehr5003 The Suez Canal is a problematic fav

The part where you listed everything people were accusing you off because of a couple of tweets gives me the theory that Twitter users have a wheel of insults that they spin whenever they see something they disagree with, and they use the result no matter how irrelevant it is.

God I cant believe that people cant wrap their silly little head's around the fact that "Media shouldn't be dictated by things that may make people uncomfortable" and "sometimes media can be criticised for its themes that affect morals and politics" are phrases than can coexist.

Okay, I'm 40 minutes in and beginning to realize that Twitter is the worst hellsite on earth. That people get THIS wound up over things that aren't even being said...now I remember why I scaled back my social media presence.

@GuiSmith

2 жыл бұрын

Tumblr only calls itself a hellsite because nobody wants to touch it. Twitter is the actual hellsite because everyone has something to contribute, which actually makes it hell.

@brettabraham

2 жыл бұрын

Yes Twitter is a hellsite and we need to remind everyone every chance we get

@SS-xr7jf

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t remember the last time anything actually good ever happened on Twitter. It just seems like 90% unfiltered, oft reactionary donkey poop that for some reason gets treated very very seriously, both on and off the platform.

@hayaokakizaki4463

2 жыл бұрын

Now imagine how bad twitter would be if it were anonymous and ban evasion was super easy.... Oh wait, I know a site like that

@merrittanimation7721

2 жыл бұрын

People at my school: "Hey, you gotta be active on social media like Twitter to get recruited!" Me, looking at twitter: "If that's what it takes I think want to be unemployed."

I am personally deeply upset when dogs die in fiction. I don't feel any particular need to blame fiction when it surprises me with that.

@Ooffoop

2 жыл бұрын

I’m convinced Micheal Morpurgo hates dogs

@samantha-jaynechapman2950

2 жыл бұрын

JoJo, omg JoJo. I wished they'd stop it ... But I still watch it, transfixed

@freelanceangel8962

2 жыл бұрын

I feel the same way about cats dying in fiction, going out of my way to avoid it when possible, and also not blaming the creators of media I consume when it happens in the story. Not every story written is going to be for me! That's the point of having MANY STORIES to consume!

@samantha-jaynechapman2950

2 жыл бұрын

@@freelanceangel8962 same, I haven't watch John Wick because of this, but I get the creators choice and don't blame who enjoy the revenge flick

@Laeiryn

2 жыл бұрын

@@freelanceangel8962 Don't watch The Order then. Just. ... Don't.

The funny thing is none of this shit matters once you turn off the screen

@APaleDot

2 жыл бұрын

That's not how the world works anymore. Online harassment is harassment.

@hhh1234h

Жыл бұрын

Did you skip the part where they clearly stated that’s not how online harassment works

@sammygarcia2306

Жыл бұрын

@@hhh1234h I don't really care it's just stupid people making a big deal out of shit that don't matter in the real world and hurting eachother and themselves over it

im sure youre aware of the discourse this video kicked off initially an tumblr but in the time since i feel like the message has sunk in a bit more, idk if its just me but it feels like the vibe of "are you pro or anti" "im an adult" is much more common now which makes conversations 1000x more tolerable. ive been noticing an increase in casual sourcing ever since hbombs plagiarism video and i feel like this one mightve had a similar effect, albeit far more subtle. either way it finally gave /me/ the right words for my position when i had spent months feeling weird about thinking it was a stupid argument to be having in the first place and was a key part of helping me learn how to engage with discourse in general in a healthy way, by knowing when to disengage and stand your ground rather than fall into the trap of "centrism 100% bad always, nuance is dead you have to be either 100% this side or 100% that side" trying to twist the things you actually believe into one box or the other. so even if it didnt effect internet culture as a whole it definitely did effect me and i think your stance is very well thought out:3

@swadloom40

Ай бұрын

Yeah I think generally I used to see a lot of posts of a mutual and their circle fighting with proshippers and thats slowed down a whole lot. Also Sarah saying that you should just specifically say *what* you don't want to see instead of using discourse labels was great advice for me and now I just do that on whatever platforms I'm on. I don't really see "DNI [ship discorse side] OR NEUTRAL" anymore either which is also a relief like thats just dumb to me LOLLL

what really gets me is when people will say "queer people and relationships deserve to be in ALL genres and ALL kinds of stories" and then go on to say "no, killing stalking is bad because it has abusive gay characters"

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

Or God forbid a trans woman write a satire story about the helicopter meme.

@dylanrodrigues

2 жыл бұрын

@@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality never forget what the weirdos on Twitter did that to innocent person...

@starrykev

2 жыл бұрын

@@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality cis women in the name of "protecting trans people" saying that they can tell "a real woman wouldn't write like this". such a fucked-up situation

@NothingOfNoteToSeeHere

2 жыл бұрын

A reason why I don't see myself in that Community, even though I'm aro/ace. To much bullshit to deal with. Plus they would hate my writing.

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

@@NothingOfNoteToSeeHere Same. Because I never feel sexual attraction I don't get certain things in the community but luckily there is google and reddit to explain. Minus the writing part because everyone hates my writing. (LOL). But in all seriousness I do think there is something to be said when straight media that portrays unhealthy relationships is okay but when it's LGBT it's suddenly problematic...almost as though the mere notion of a relationship being unhealthy and being queer isn't something audiences can handle. It's sad because now in order to tell a story like that the character always have to be soft and sweet. But why? Also, I would love to see what you've written! Or hear about what you are going to make!

I think what actually pisses me off about this kind of thing is that so many people on the internet want to use the issues of suicide, sexual violence, harassment and goddamn child sexual abuse as pawns in their internet arguments in such a dismissive and disrespectful way. These people can’t seem to go five words without bringing up such horrific and despicable things that people actually have to experience and suffer from in real life everyday. I’m not saying that these people don’t have personal experiences with these topics but what I can say for sure is that as a victim of some of the pretty awful things these people love to throw around without any respect, it turns my stomach that people are using real suffering to try to ‘one-up’ and ‘own’ strangers online. These aren’t buzzwords or theoretical fictional themes they’re talking about, it’s real life violence and crime that they’re trivialising and weaponising and I just wish they’d leave that stuff alone if they’re not going to be respectful about it.

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. A lot of antis and pro-shippers seem to have past trauma that is brought up when they see certain ships. For instance, there are people triggered by a ship I write for because it is not a healthy or happy relationship and it triggers their trauma from bad relationships they had in the past. I write for it not because I would want to see it canon but because it is an interesting what-if to explore. I know there are many different reasons for other people but this is mine. But I have also had people use my ship to harass others using the same tactics.

@isabelhuang_1

2 жыл бұрын

THISSSSSSS and from people who should know better too

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

@Parker Well, it depends on what you mean by misinformation. I've had people tell me a certain tramua I experienced for two years wasn't "real" because the "abuser was a woman" and that by sharing what had happened to me I was spreading misinformation.

@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality

2 жыл бұрын

@Parker Thank you...

@Dethamaranth

2 жыл бұрын

Right! And I have no doubt that maybe some of them have had those experiences themselves, online fandoms are wild and I don't think anyone deserves that over some ships, but it does not give anyone an excuse to use that against someone else, especially if it's someone's death or harassment that doesn't even have anything to do with them or the person they're using it against.

i don’t understand why it’s so hard to just block or mute content and people you don’t like instead of telling real life people they deserve to die over fictional content.

@yunglynda1326

Жыл бұрын

its because posting is actually activism

@cyberneticraven358

5 ай бұрын

Because they think the internet should be curated just for them and they shouldn’t have to put any effort into moderating their own content.

@mechavos4066

5 ай бұрын

sending death threats is never okay, but I think posting p*dophilic content for example, even about fictional characters, is also not okay

That's kinda strange because being totally allergic to fandom culture and not knowing much about it, I always thought that pro-shipper would be teenagers and antis would be adults. That's new thing for me.

@SukiNoKoe

Жыл бұрын

This is because adults get bored of vanilla stuff. xD

@Bremblemax

Жыл бұрын

@@SukiNoKoe "vanilla stuff" kinda weird way to phrase it

@SukiNoKoe

Жыл бұрын

@@Bremblemax That's what it's known as though lol what would you prefer?

@Alansaurus

Жыл бұрын

@@Bremblemax agreed, kinda downplays some of the stuff imo

Never has the title to a video essay filled me with such terror and excitement at the same time.

@unicornsprinkles8964

2 жыл бұрын

I feel this way about a lot of Sarah’s video

@Adam-zw7lm

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly

@dubs781

2 жыл бұрын

yeeeessss my first reaction was "oh gawd"

@SnowEarDraws

2 жыл бұрын

I get the feeling.

@wingedcatgirl

2 жыл бұрын

Oh hey same hat. Same terrified and excited hat.

I didn't really think the accusation were too bad: gaslighter, abuse silencer, baby eater, but STRAIGHT WOMEN?! Nu-uh you gotta draw a fucking line somewhere.

@Madrigal025

2 жыл бұрын

Ugh! Can you imagine, being called Straight?! Why I would never! *sips infant tea*

A group of people vehemently against censorship of any kind basically forcing someone out of their community because they have an opinion that goes against their set of party beliefs is pretty ironic honestly.

@thedreammweaver6274

Жыл бұрын

THIS

@crestren5996

11 ай бұрын

"People are allowed to believe what they believe. Censorship is bad. What? Youre against what we believe? GTFO"

@jimmybalzac6021

8 ай бұрын

Telling someone to leave a community isn't censorship ????

@jimmybalzac6021

8 ай бұрын

Oh, you're one of those overtly religious people. Nevermind, that makes perfect sense that you think someone you to shut up is tantamount to censorship lmfao

@AroundTheBlockAgain

6 ай бұрын

It's classic cult behavior that can affect literally any group of any type. Yeah, some anti-censorship pro-shipper groups will dogpile on you if you say "i dislike [thing]" in public where they can see you. Some anti-shippers out to "defend the minors in fandom" by, y'know, harassing minors in fandom who did something they disliked. It's all cult behavior. The hypocrisy isn't even on their radar. It's all about the Us vs. Them mentality, signaling allegiance to the group, appealing to the group leaders, and punishing any deviation - all while fearing that the next person getting dogpiled and excommunicated might be you if you don't perform your outrage vehemently enough. So you dogpile even harder. And you don't even realize how bad it got until you start getting out of that mindset.

Something being online for 20 years now has taught me is this: -Learn to pick your battles -Trust but verify -Nuance is key Also the best way to win the angry discourse game is not playing it, I know it's easier said than done, but it makes for a really good exercise in keeping our emotions in check, because that's the main fuel of a lot of that toxicity, intentionally pushing your emotional buttons so everyone engages in an endless flame war, all while being convinced you're fighting a good cause. It's kinda sad a lot of this messed up stuff comes from teenagers, or young adults who already spent a good part of their teens facing the internet completely unprepared and unchecked, because they managed to make this not just their personality, but also their entire existence and validation as people depends on this unhealthy stuff.

I have to say, I resent the fact that when a woman turns 25+ and over she's expected to no longer be interested in fandom, and just stop liking things she liked as a teen/young adult and move on and be "mature." Women in fandom over 30+ especially get told to get off the internet and stop shipping stuff... 40-year-old men loving Star Wars and being in other fandoms is seen as fine. Its the double standard.

@triumphofmagic

2 жыл бұрын

Same.

@donnajones4131

2 жыл бұрын

It's been that way for decades.

@intotheunknown6736

2 жыл бұрын

@@donnajones4131 I know that doesn’t mean it’s okay though :(

@idek7438

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry but if you're an adult and you're still so invested in fictional couples and stuff like that to actually get into fights with people on the Internet, you need to grow up

@intotheunknown6736

2 жыл бұрын

@@idek7438 where did I say getting into fights? Also its this attitude, of basically saying "women of a certain age can no longer like these things" its idiotic. We don't just turn 25 and wanna get married, pop out babies and make a home and loose all our interests from before. Also I think anyone whatever age being too invested in a ship is bad for you. Again its this shaming women for liking things.

I don't know what annoys me more: people who think criticizing something is the same as being able to distinguish between fiction and reality or people who think a thing existing in a work of fiction is the same as the creator of that fiction endorsing thing. I just cannot.

@mutedknght

2 жыл бұрын

Man I still remember there was some small buzz about infinity war normalizing parental abuse implicitly due to thanos existing which just blew my mind.

@HollowAshes747

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah fandom discourse has just devolved to the point where neither side makes more sense than the other and they both seem kind of stupid. Whatever happened to the days of "Don't like, don't read/interact"? Now we have dumbass takes like "oh the childhood friends to lover trope is incest".

@miriamscuderi4680

2 жыл бұрын

To me, whether or not a piece of fiction endorses problematic things comes down to the framing. The framing of, say, a relationship in any given piece of fiction might help people realize whether or not the dynamics of the relationship are considered healthy or just portrayed for any other reason. Take 50 Shades of Gray: there's no inherent problem in a fucked up, unhealthy relationship being written about, but the way the narrative frames Christian is positive, implying that his behaviour is totally okay and attractive. That narrative is about abuse, but the author absolutely doesn't view it that way and frames it as romantic.

@trashraccoon2635

2 жыл бұрын

@@miriamscuderi4680 this exactly! Framing is everything in works of fiction, which is how we know that we're supposed to root for simba and not scar, for example (whether or not you choose so is up to you but the fictional work in question makes it clear who to support from the creator's side). If we just say "this problematic, throw it out" then we're not going to have any fiction ever because anything can be made problematic. Food? Can be a choking hazard. Cars? That's just crashes waiting to happen! Dogs? Oh that's just bad news, haven't you heard about cruella's mom??

@LvLupXD

2 жыл бұрын

For me it's definitely the former. The latter always ends up being a stupid conversation, but most time I encounter the former, the conversation topic is really upsetting

The responses about "So are we supposed to ignore 'x' then?" Are text book examples of a debate "technique" called "strawmanning". Or more commonly referred to as a "Straw man fallacy". It's similar to "whataboutisms" which is another debate "technique" where critiquing someone's actions makes you immediately disregard all the good they've done. Both are horrible debate techniques. And commonly viewed as such.

What I've learned from binging this channel for the past few days : 1. Social media is fucking wild sometimes 2. You're good at your job because I end up so enthralled that I end up watching for an hour straight without realizing