Villeneuve on Hans Zimmer: he created new instruments, a new musical language! Cut to BAGPIPES

You’ve missed two major things in this video. First - dune part 1, and to some extent part 2, is not the whole story. Very pointedly, the latter part of the book does a lot to show you how dangerous, misguided, and morally unjustifiable Paul’s path is. Moreover, the evil that Paul unleashed is explicitly discussed in the following book(s) with references to the setup delivered by the first book. Second, as I’ve hinted at above, Paul is NOT A SAVIOR. He is very explicitly intended to be a comment on the danger of power - that even the most noble of motivations will not stop the powerful from abusing, mistreating, and destroying those around them. The harkonnens’ near comical level of evil is important for displaying this because from an outside perspective, and particularly a western perspective, Paul has all the right justification for his war - yet nonetheless it leads him to become the very evil he fights to destroy. This isn’t just my interpretation either, it’s Frank Herbert’s original intent behind the character and is central to the story of the books. I understand your criticisms here, but it doesn’t seem to me like you understood the point of the books or movie(s).

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

The film doesn't do a very good job of this considering the Orientalist filmmaking at play. Hope my mind is changed on the second film.

@mpalfadel2008

Ай бұрын

@@EezhamDemon This story is ment to be a warning about how dangerous demagogues, charismatic leaders, and tyrants can be In other words never trust that anyone else has your best interests at heart. Never stop thinking critically I would be interested if your opinion changes if/when you read Herbert’s narrative

@DANBAN119

21 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemonI don’t see how it doesn’t, in the first movie Paul is afraid to bring about the holy war because he sees the terror and death it will cause, part 2 he brings it about without batting an eye. There are other examples but that is the one I first noticed, and the one that illustrates Paul isn’t a savior. The books do more what you were saying and paint Paul as a savior archetype, but even then Dune:Messiah, the follow up book, immediately betrays that idea by making Paul a tyrant and the Fremen a group of religious zealots.

@user-yp6yr9te7l

18 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemon I don't see any Orientalist filmmaking at all. The Fremen are the far future descendants of current Earth Islamic and Buddhist religious cultures, post Machine War. This is not allegory. It is speculation. Everything in your video is a kind of projection from your own very specific ideological tinted lenses. You're viewing the film through something else: a paradigm that colours everything. Get rid of all that. The story is not what it seems. This is like Bloodborne, starting off as a Victorian gothic horror of werewolves and hunters.....and then the veil lifts half way through, revealing the true story.

The author has been explicitly on record stating the following, and I think the films convey this already, albeit subtly (and that subtlety is evidently a problem for most moviegoers, apparently): “I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century was John Kennedy because people said "Yes Sir Mr. Charismatic Leader what do we do next?" and we wound up in Vietnam. And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. Because he taught us to distrust government and he did it by example. All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.” I know you probably already know this, but my point here is primarily that I don't think the movies fail to convey this, just that they do it through subtlety. In the first film there are numerous interspersed references to Paul's own self-doubt surrounding the veracity of his role and his visions. And it is still alluded to (again, subtly, maybe too subtly), that the Gesserit, in tandem with Paul's extra sensitivity to spice's psychoactive properties, are contriving and manipulating his sense of reality for the sake of greater machinations. The intended irony is that Paul is not actually a savior--rather, he is a pawn (with an eventually deluded ego, to boot). Maybe the only enduring criticism would be that Herbert was a bit of an orientalist. But you have to bear in mind that he wrote Dune with a great deal of research and respect for the cultures and religions from which he drew inspiration. He doesn't depict the Fremen in a perfect, romanticized light, either. After all, they are beguiled by Paul's 'prophetic' role, despite their demonstrated *aptitude* elsewhere. Really, Dune is one of the earlier literary examples of a purely gray moral landscape, in the sense that there isn't an objectively 'good' force to root for, just a myriad of differently flawed factions. You didn't substantiate on why the faith to prophecy is 'cringe'--it's just a depiction of religiosity in a religious setting. There's this weird trend I've noticed where a lot of people don't seem to recognize that a depiction of something is not coterminous with its endorsement, even though the genre is... fiction. I don't see the perpetuation of harmful stereotypes here because the suspension of disbelief is mediated by virtue of the ultra-fictitious setting, and the impetus to draw an analogue to the real world thusly falls upon the inclination of the receiver. So for example, I'm given the impression that you reach very heavily throughout this video... I think 99% of people would see the Harkonnen's opulence and insatiable avarice as being reflected in their fat--they certainly wouldn't draw the same racial connection that you did. That connection also gets even more unlikely once you account for all of the... actual black people in the cast, who don't comport with the stereotype you're thinking of. The depiction of their fatness is instead meant to be figuratively akin to how, during the middle ages (bearing in mind that Herbert wanted this world to represent sci-fi feudalism), wealth was associated with a (lauded) large belly/royalty due to abundant food access. This isn't meant to insinuate that *everyone who is fat is avaricious*--'all of x species of bird are blue, but not all birds are blue', etc.

Calling Dune a "white saviour" movie represents a profound misunderstanding of Herbert's narrative arc for Paul, who is emphatically NOT a hero or saviour. The story is a cautionary tale about the dangers of colonialism, power, messianic figureheads and charismatic leaders. Paul only cares about himself, vengeance, and restoring his bloodline to the throne, and he and his scheming mother exploit the Fremen to achieve this. In the upcoming Part 3, we'll see his descent from revered messiah to tyrannical antihero. Even the Fremen turn against him.

@EezhamDemon

Ай бұрын

The first one very much is! I look forward to seeing if the films move beyond Orientalism to explore this.

@apostatereacts

Ай бұрын

@@EezhamDemon Herbert used the White Saviour trope only in order to critique it. In Part 2 of Villeneuve's adaptation, Paul is already transitioning into the antihero. His visions tell him the consequences of his ambition, but his lust for revenge and power overwhelm whatever humanity is left in him. Chani can see it, and it was a smart by Villeneuve to make her the moral core of the story - a change from the books. Those saying this is a White Saviour story will have very red faces when they see the ruthless, amoral gargoyle Paul becomes in Part 3 (an adaptation of Dune Messiah).

@donemu9096

26 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemon It is only for someone who is unintelligent to be very honest. The very first shot of the movie has Chani talking about who their next oppressors will be and then the shot switches to Paul waking up. IT IS VERY ON THE NOSE ABOUT THE THEMES.

@EezhamDemon

26 күн бұрын

@@donemu9096 you are very intelligent 🧠

Funny how they repeat the beginning over and over but never get further where we get the more potent critiques of empire and the West

@ga1actic_muffin

2 ай бұрын

As someone who has never read the books and was new to the series, when i watched dune and Dune Part 2 right after, this is the interpretation i got: Dune is a cautionary tale of the white savior. Inspired by disastrous colonialism of the imperial west of the 20th and 21st centuries where the west tries to spread their influence globally through missionaries and manipulating and using cultures the west wrongly deemed as "untamed" and uncivilized. Dune is a critique of this western ideology and showcases the devastating effects it can have on vulnerable peoples/cultures and how that can have devastating ripple effects globally down the road. In no way did i see this as a glorification of white saviors aka western imperialism.

@user-yp6yr9te7l

18 күн бұрын

Dune is not a critique of empire and the West. It is about something far deeper, timeless and universal: the very source of faith itself.

@user-rz2gw8jb4v

11 күн бұрын

@@ga1actic_muffin If you drop the "white" part , Dune is cautionary tale of saviors.

Dune interestingly enough from knowledge was actually based of anti French colonialism in Muslim Africa with Paul being based off the first president of Mali Modibo Keïta the irony is that films and adaptations don’t tend to capture that the whole point was that messiah figures aren’t what you shouldn’t base your movement around such figures, a big inspiration was the Mahadist movement in Sudan, the wars against colonialism across the African Sahel and places like Algeria

@akshayhere

7 ай бұрын

Villeneuve definitely understands this and has said multiple times in interview that Paul in his struggle, becomes the instrument of colonialism that he's apparantly trying to fight.

@UiliamLima-jv9yu

2 ай бұрын

Almost certain that Paul Atreides is actually a dark version of Jhon F. Kennedy

@muthannauchicago

Ай бұрын

Yes specifically the French Algerian war there’s a good video on KZread somewhere that came out after Dune Part 1.

@muthannauchicago

Ай бұрын

@@akshayhereExactly thus the line “Who will our next oppressors be”. Villeneuve made it so clear even a dunce could get it. Chani is our window into this theme she sees in real time her ppl getting radicalized by manufactured false prophecy. The book is actually subtle about, I mean Paul literally unleashes a god damn Jihad!! Go read the damn book before making your next non sense video about Dune.

I feel like this misses the point for the most part? Paul being who is being planted in the Fremen myth has been done for thousands of years and is a direct effect of how oppressors exploit. Since this is half of a story, I can confidently say that most of your criticisms should be addressed in part 2 cause this is all very deliberate. Paul IS purported as the white saviour. He also exploits the planted mythos about him to rise as a messiah among the Fremen and that IS the point. He isn't a saviour, nor a messiah. He's just another oppressor. And that is what Chani is alluding to in the opening lines of the film. If anything, Dune is a cautionary tale against messianic figures and myths. It is a white saviour story. More specifically "White saviours are bad" story. The "racial cosplay" is really the oppressor trying to insert them in the culture for political advantage. Why are people not picking up something that is said so blatantly across this film? Even in one of his visions, he says that if he takes control, he'll spread a holy war across the stars with people killing in his name. Yet he goes along with it. PAUL IS NOT A SAVIOUR. HE'S A FLEDGLING TYRANT who becomes the very instrument of colonialism he claims to be against. Please be patient or read the book.

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for explaining. We'll see. But I don't think the creative team has the cultural competency to be able to deliver on these themes given the MEA erasure and the insistence on so much racialised death while the white characters get so much screentime.

@akshayhere

7 ай бұрын

@@EezhamDemon Sure. I think that's a fair criticism especially considering the historical context. While it is possible that the sequel doesn't do anything I said above and end up aggrandizing Paul, I believe Villeneuve to be competent enough to not gloss over what essentially is the core thesis of Dune. Like you said, we'll see. Cheers.

@blackseed68

7 ай бұрын

I always felt that Dune was a self-aware take on white saviors. Paul himself admits that he is a fraud. By the end of his story, he becomes a sad, bitter failure. Even his decendant becomes a tyrant. His father, Leto, only planned to ally with the fremen so he could use them as soldiers. And that's precisely what happens. I hear the criticisms, but I don't think they're necessary.

@UiliamLima-jv9yu

2 ай бұрын

There's simply no color in Dune, it's not a theme, and Frank took inspiration from Kennedy in America.

@UiliamLima-jv9yu

2 ай бұрын

​@@EezhamDemonThere's simply no color in Dune, it's not a theme, and Frank took inspiration from Kennedy in America. People demand representation, but when you are the hero. Liet Kynes was apparently a redhead, and is now a black woman..

Pretty for the pretty god! Tired for the tired throne!

I can’t tell if this is satire or not

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

Neither can I!

I tried reading the novel, but it was too slowly paced. I do recommend taking a look at a pair of other anti-white savior novels like The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad (who wrote the classic Star Trek season 2 episode, The Doomsday Machine) and Joe Haldeman's The Forever War (which was adapted into a comic as well).

“Would have preferred no white people in this but” what is this comment even supposed to mean?

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

Pretty straightforward tbh.

@adend1233

7 ай бұрын

why would no white be better? Kinda racist ngl.@@EezhamDemon

@guillianlattes8498

24 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemon so tell us

@EezhamDemon

23 күн бұрын

@@guillianlattes8498 Read

@guillianlattes8498

23 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemon no you tell us exactly you brave men

Words of someone that hasn't watched/read Dune for themselves.

@EezhamDemon

9 күн бұрын

Nice

I appreciate the time work and thought put into this video but must be honest in my critique that you're watching the movie and or reading the source material with an expectation/agenda rather than a desire to understand what the author is trying to say, and what the director (a long fan of the series) is trying to portray. On just about every level I disagree wholeheartedly with your premise and the examples given. Because that would be way too long I will say that possibly the 3 most monumental points haters miss about the books and or movies is (and this one might be the most important) depiction does not equal glorification or condonation. Let that sink in. Just because something seems like a thing does not make it a thing; those with an agenda or specific lens for the material always miss that first. Second, in the beginning of this series (sorry to break it to you) Paul has just as little agency, if not less, than the Fremen. You can't have a savior who's at the whim of the people he's saving. Paul is still nobody at the end of the first movie and for anyone worth their salt who read the first six books, which are the only ones that matter (yeah I said it) will know this is not going to have a happy ending for Paul or the Fremen. Both are practically dog toy's within the mouths of the greater lords and the Emperor; everyone loves to forget about him. This is a medieval economy... How much agency do most have in a medieval economy other than those at the very top?? Lastly, the universe of Dune is wildly complex which is why everyone said this film couldn't do the source material justice. Denis is not great by showing alien visuals to convey alien concepts, he's brilliant at taking visuals we can relate to (those which are in our collective unconscious) in order to convey new ideas which means being able to work within the limitations and experiences of the audience. Nolan is another master at this. Zach Snyder and Michael Bay are possibly the worst at this in their movies which might be pretty, but hollow. So your citation of that one person regarding cinematography and color theory don't know what they're talking about in the context of making alien concepts relatable to an audience with no background on the source material. There is so much more but there is not enough time in the day, so this will have to suffice.

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Yes you're right, depiction does not necessarily equal glorification. But I obviously disagree because enough elements added together show me that the creators are incapable of understanding their own "neutral" viewpoint is actually many racist elements packed together. Films like this unfortunately do not subvert imperialist tropes but serve as a reinforcement of white supremacy under the guise of liberation.

@Ter9393

2 ай бұрын

@@EezhamDemon😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I feel like you’ve skated over something right from the start. At the beginning of the movie you play a clip of Chani saying “who will our next oppressors be?” Even in the book Leto talks more about exploitation than alliance in regards to the Fremen. That’s the point the story is trying to make, I think. Sure the Atriedes aren’t the same as the Harkonnens but they are both *oppressors* not liberators. If Paul and his mother who are taken in by the Fremen weren’t white then this analogy wouldn’t work as well. The book and film serve to show capitalism taken to its logical conclusion. Each great house acts as a sort of mega-corporation each of them having stakes in CHOAM. This of course results in neo-feudalistic colonialism as the houses expand and exchange planets by decree of an autocratic empire.

Whenever I see white people talk of this film it is often lauded for how 'alien' and 'different' the world feels. While the stark brutalism amidst the sand dunes does some heavy lifting the movie more or less by using these clearly inspired racialized beats and flair greatly encapsulates how utterly insulated its audience is. How easy the system of culture is able to otherize and exoticfy these cultures from people. Like when all it takes is a few crowds dressed in cloth with foreign vocals to make you feel like you're in an alien world that should say something about how often you engage with other cultures altogether. How willingly cutoff they are from the world itself.

@UiliamLima-jv9yu

2 ай бұрын

Because it's another world, Bruatalism is a European style, not a culture. Are the insect's clothes really strange, or have you ever seen Arabs with hoses on their noses?

@ga1actic_muffin

2 ай бұрын

Sure I have no doubt there are many white people (I'm of Korean and Turkish decent myself) who just understand Dune from a very superficial and surface level that you describe. And if they do they just simply are missing the point of the narratives and lore. In the books, the very literal parallels between Fremin and Muslim cultures and religions and the parallels we see between other cultures we see in Dune and real world cultures is actually deliberate. Once you understand the lore of the books (which I personally was disappointed wasn't explained or explored in the movies but I understand why as it would have made the movie another 2 hours long lol) it makes perfect sense. I won't get into all of it here unless you want me to but just as an example, the religion the Fremin follow in Dune is called Zensuni. In a fictional world meant to take place 20,000 years into the future, Zensuni Is quite literally a combination of Zen Buddhism and Suni Muslim, which in context to the dune lore has a direct link to those original cultures and religions from earth however, this story takes place so far into our future that the origins of the Fremin is a history lost to them and Frank Herbert explores how cultures and religions evolve and mix over time in our real world. Instead of just inventing entirely new religions and cultures for Dune, Herbert uses real world religions and cultures to ground Dune's story in reality and make it more believable/relatable by the readers while also making other points about humanity's origins, nature, and history.

@muthannauchicago

Ай бұрын

Ok I’m not a white person and I have MA in Middle East study. I’m of Bengali descent. But even without that you completely missed the point. For the 100th time Dune is a massive warning Paul is not a good guy, it is not a white savior story, it’s a massive massive warning against charismatic leaders and saviors in general thus also a warning against white saviors. A for orientalism I would say that Denis Villeneuve was quite respectful of the culture. The Fremen are a mishmash of North African, Arab Egyptian and Bedouin cultures. The Fremen do look like and dress like ppl I have met while traveling. More importantly Chakobsa sounds very much to me like Darius, the harsh Moroccan dialect. I don’t know if ur white a but it also seems to be it’s usually white internet leftists who keeps bringing up this nonsense about white saviors without completely missing the main themes of the film, book and series. I mean he made the themes very very clear and was quite respectful of those cultures imho.

@ga1actic_muffin

Ай бұрын

@@muthannauchicago you know dune is a warning against charismatic leaders like Trump right?

@DANBAN119

21 күн бұрын

Dude you look at Geidi Prime and tell me it doesn’t look alien, Arakkis is literally just a desert I don’t see how THAT can be alien other than the sand worms.

@Focal When i watched dune and Dune part 2, this is the interpretation i got: Dune is a cautionary tale of the white savior. Inspired by disastrous colonialism of the imperial west of the 20th and 21st centuries where the west tries to spread their influence globally through missionaries and manipulating and using cultures the west wrongly deemed as "untamed" and uncivilized. Dune is a critique of this western ideology and showcases the devastating effects it can have on vulnerable peoples/cultures and how that can have devastating ripple effects globally down the road. In no way did i see this as a glorification of white saviors aka western imperialism...

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

That's interesting. I wonder if mainstream audiences feel the same way. Do you think the filmmaking didn't still rely on Orientalist visuals and score? I'll probably check it out when it hits digital.

@ga1actic_muffin

2 ай бұрын

​​​@@EezhamDemon I think that's a very surface level interpretation of the Dune story, something that Frank Herbert intended in the first book of dune for sure to pull people into the story and make it relatable through allegories of our era; but as you read on, you start to discover the story is much deeper than that and the true meaning of the Dune books. Denis admitted in a recent interview of Screen Rant Plus last month that he started to bring in the narrative we get in the 3rd book: Dune Messiah where we see that Paul Atreities is indeed an anti hero and the antagonist of the story. If you saw Dune part 2 I'm surprised some people like yourself didn't catch that by the end that this is a critique on imperialism and the White Savior Trope, but no matter, luckily this will be explored much more in part 3. In the books. One of Frank Herberts most famous quotes is all you need as proof that this is a critique of the trope, not a glorification of it, "“No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero.”" Now to explain the orientalism this was also blatantly deliberate and the descision was also rooted in Frank herberts goals of building up a narrative with tropes, allegories, and your typical white charismatic "hero" so that he could completely tear these themes down and explore the dangers of them. In the books, Herbert builds an entire mythos that explains why we see and hear Arabic visuals and sounds and once you understand why, it starts to make a lot of sense in the context of this fictional world that is intended to take place 20,000 years in our own future. In addition to this reasoning that explains why we see deliberate allegories and parallels to cultures and religions we recognize today, Herbert chose to inspire the Fremin directly off arabic culture and religion because he wanted to pick a culture who's story, history, influence legacy and conflicts span the furthest into recorded history and who's conflicts had very real world relevance so that audiences could still relate to something that in the context of dune, is a very alien world. Historians all agree that the middle east and Africa are the cradles of human history and this is what Herbert found so enduring about these cultures. Herbert wanted to tell a story that clearly showed that history repeats itself; imperialism will always come conquer and the charismatic heros are the most dangerous of them. They have been doing this for as long as humanity has been able to write about such things and the earliest of these writings come from humanities' birthplace ( according to archeological records available at the time that he wrote the books ), Mesopotamia and the middle east. I can also explain why the music and instruments used are mostly middle eastern in origin as well as this is also covered in Herberts books, but I've already talked your ear off explaining the first couple points. Lol I think Zimmer understood this detail in the books about the music of the Dune universe and was simply staying true to Herberts vision. It had nothing to do with Zimmer being old and white. ;)

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

@@ga1actic_muffin thanks for explaining. I've not seen the second film yet.

@ga1actic_muffin

2 ай бұрын

​​@@EezhamDemon ahh ok yes that makes more sense then. You should go watch it, I'm curious what you think once you do. Both of these movies are meant to be watched together. Part one truly is a part 1. Incomplete without the other. ;)

I've read a significant portion of the dune series, and I can say confidently that the series's core writing problems are caused by herbert's confused and contradictory liberal ideology. At some points, the dune novels appear confidently anti-imperialist and anti-centralized rule, even to the point of paul equating himself to "emperor Hitler" in the second book. But at other times, the books uncritically accept eugenics as working to create the ultimate ruler, and write fascist rule as if it was a necessity to guarantee future freedoms. The overall point of these books is so confused and obscure that by the 4th book, 75 percent of the text is just the mad ramblings of a genocidal dictator and I honestly cannot tell whether Herbert wants me to like the dictator or not. This book and it's narrative are not something you would create if you had a strong understanding of class analysis. It's the rambling sermon of a worker from the imperial core that cannot make sense of the world using the tools he has been given.

@scandalouspanda7489

7 ай бұрын

However, Dune fans seem to dismiss all criticism by insisting that the critic simply missed a layer to the story, and claim that another, deeper reading of the story would reveal Herbert to be exactly correct in his predictions and as a staunch anti-racist. But it seems to me that Dune fans have simply mistaken Herbert's ideological confusion for complicated and deep storytelling

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

Oh wow thanks for getting into it like this. I'd definitely watch a video of yours on this!

@blowingUpTheSunShine

2 ай бұрын

Hubert is definitely trying to show Paul as a dangerous charismatic leader that kills millions to gain power.

@UiliamLima-jv9yu

2 ай бұрын

It's not confusing, besides the background with machines, which you may have forgotten, the Bene Gesserit knew from an early age that something would put humanity at risk, Leto II became a tyrant, not that he genuinely was, but he just did it. to forever free humanity from any attempt at prescient control. It's literally him repeating, you shouldn't have trusted my father, you shouldn't have trusted me, but that's just how the message goes after those who know what he was really thinking understand.

yea 80 views seems about right.. looks like you missed the point of DUNE itself

@NerdyPunkyMonkey

7 ай бұрын

Did you watch the video or just read the title. Maybe you just missed where he brought up that there were differences between the books and the movies. At about 1:00

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

What do you like about it? I don't think Villeneuve and the writers seem too capable of delivering on an anticolonial story

@noahbutler9180

2 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@EezhamDemonstory isn’t supposed to be anticolonial you just have to interpret it that way because you have a limited world view

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

@@noahbutler9180 from what I've read that was Herbert's intention

@noahbutler9180

2 ай бұрын

@@EezhamDemon not really I mean it has anti colonial elements but that’s not the main point of the story the point of the story is clearly a reflection on the danger of ideology and political hero figures. Focusing on anticolonialism is at best missing the forest for the trees here, it’s clearly not the core theme of the book and Villeneuve had the rather difficult task of turning one of the most complex sci fi stories ever into a movie it’s not gonna have every thematic detail from the book.

Shouldn't even bother coming to this video or commenting because it's obviously clickbait, troll, pseudo-intellectual garbage, but wanted to let people who are taking the time to respond against to to keep fighting the good fight. Fortunately, we're coming to the end of the little era where pointing out all the things to be offended over seems deep or smart. It's not. It's for people who are boring and desperate to been seen. Try creating something with your soul in it, not just regurgitating the toxic side of critical race theory.

One thing I wonder is as a book from the sixties, when the average US citizens was well pretty ignorant about the Muslim cultures, well even now we still have a lot to learn, could an author have avoided the Oriental tropes that is part of this story? On the other hand I honestly don't understand this whole critique about "white saviourism". Maybe this is having read the books, but Paul Maud'dib is a false messiah. There are warnings with how the Bene Gesserit had manipulated religion, and Kynes warning of what would a hero do to the people. The second book especially gets into the potential authoritarian issues of a false messiah. Maybe the films do a poor job of this. Anyways good luck with your channel content.

@EezhamDemon

Ай бұрын

Yeah I can't speak on the books because I haven't read them but there's definitely Arab and Muslim readers who like the commentary and others who love it but accept that it has problematic parts.

To be far 1984 dune makes Paul in to gods tool to free the people and misses the point of Dune. If you're go off that and just that, you have a point. But that not the point of Dune.

@EezhamDemon

9 күн бұрын

Thanks

Great video. Well done.

But fremen aren't arabic by enticity. We'll some of them might be, fremen are decendants of all kinds of immigrants from all corners of the empire after all, but they always been a metaphor for real life colonization not a direct reflection of it. Their culture isn't even theirs it was crafted for centuries by cult of Bene Gesserit to be both tenacious and complaisant. They might cosplay as some form of middle eastern culture but calling for arabic representation just because their culture looks at first glance similar... is kinda racist.

@EezhamDemon

Ай бұрын

Arab and Muslim are not interchangeable but can have shared features. Their cultural influences on the film are undeniable. Arabic is a language btw.

@Silence-qm3ku

Ай бұрын

If you are saying that sand people living in the caves should be played by arabs despite what the author clearly said in the source material just because they visually fit in your "enticity box"... well you have quite outdated opinions.

You could have just said "I didn't read the book".

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

I say it in the video :D

@guillianlattes8498

24 күн бұрын

​@@EezhamDemon well you can have stopped it after that

Timothee Chalamet is dead behind the eyes. It's like he doesn't have a soul.

@bossman9873

7 ай бұрын

Jeez 😮

video so woke so cringe lol

@EezhamDemon

23 күн бұрын

Thanks so much 😊

Everybody in Diune series (books) are same skin colour - so not white saviour story. For accurate racial description they would need actors from middterrenian Also Paul never helped Fremen, more accidentaly used them trying to avoid darkest timeline. ALSO Diune universe is not capitalist, it's feudalist. All these mistakes in only first minute, lets watch some more.

@Ep5ilion

7 ай бұрын

OK, second minute, you can't just say racism is bad and than insult someone basing on their place of birth.

@Ep5ilion

7 ай бұрын

OK, I had enough, gonna watch some Trump speaches to cure myself from all that conservatism I got infected from this

@EezhamDemon

7 ай бұрын

Oh yeah true. That's a good distinction. Given that the Harkonens were allowed to be rich, it didn't seem as feudalist to me

@guillianlattes8498

24 күн бұрын

@@EezhamDemon woa you are stupid it s a fact, feudal does not mean poverty feudalisme :Political, economic and social system based on the oppression of a predominantly peasant people by a landed aristocracy who exercised political (and religious), judicial and military power.

In the midst of all the bullshit coming out of Hollywood you are complaining about Dune?? Jesus

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

Writers strike? Culture of sexual abuse? White supremacy? Unsafe shooting regulations? Increased exploitation from megacorporations?

@guillianlattes8498

24 күн бұрын

​@@EezhamDemon youtubeur with zero inteligence making moovie critic ? woke/blm non sens ? 2024 and weird leftis theory ? American navel gazing?

Tell me you didn’t read the books without telling me you didn’t read the books.😒

@EezhamDemon

13 күн бұрын

Literally said in the video I haven't read the books and don't plan to lol

Thank god i'm not one of those people that when a movie comes out i don't make it about race. I'm more concered about the story if it's good or not, the musical score, the character development. I don't understand why do you guys always make it about race. Although i have not read the books, there are wikis and fandoms, and other references and i have been reading them. I have this thing where a movie like this comes out i have to familiarize myself with its ore so i could understand. I used to think Paul is the savior but after going through my research...well let's just say....the guy is far from it. Please do not take my comment as an attack.❤

@EezhamDemon

29 күн бұрын

I think the filmmaking and what audiences take out of it, at least the first one, emboldens racist logics rather than destroying them.

There is no mention of black people in Dune, so sleep, it would have been nice if Villenueve had followed the book on this, at least the "BLM" wouldn't have sounded here.

@EezhamDemon

2 ай бұрын

The whole film is based on Arab/Muslim/African cultures

@aryaastark9201

Ай бұрын

Are you trying to say a culture based in desert living is based on people of fair skin? Are you fucking serious?

(1) beautiful Solid essay (2) look at the butthurt bigots in comments

@EezhamDemon

3 ай бұрын

Aww thank you, appreciated. Haha yeah I need more of people like that to bump my rating in the algo lol.

The movie just sucked.

Excellent and fair analysis.

@EezhamDemon

Ай бұрын

Appreciate it!

Its wierd that people are trying to argue against your point, you are right and this is absolutely a white savior film. Yes there are other themes, yes further movies may introduce different plotlines, but this is the epitome of a white savior film.

@EezhamDemon

Ай бұрын

Appreciate it! Yeah lots of people are dogmatic fanboys and have no media literacy.