It would've been cool if you had shown the battery percentage before and after.

@nenezaze3252

Жыл бұрын

That would be a Ram 🐏 fan boy or a Chevy but hurt..

@redsquarejay

Жыл бұрын

100% before. 2% after lol

@luciankristov6436

Жыл бұрын

Probably lost 10% if i had to guess. Not advocating for EV lol but the trucks battery capacity isnt that bad...its bad but not that bad if you get me . Ill take my 5.0 lol

@c.carrillo7813

Жыл бұрын

@@nenezaze3252 It's a valid concern. You seem to be an EV 🐑 jumping straight to insults for a genuine question. It must pain you to know some people think for themselves.

@travisyarbrough4033

Жыл бұрын

Has zero to do with it ...... Gas / Diesel are over ...... Won't be missed

I wonder how much the tires matter in tests like these. Seems like an important factor.

@6.0hhh

Жыл бұрын

Tires and weight.

@snapdrag141

Жыл бұрын

I noticed a lack of tread on the Ram fs

@Tonyx.yt.

Жыл бұрын

weight distribution is even more important, f150 lighting is 50-50, RAM i dont think so

@travisyarbrough4033

Жыл бұрын

all have street tires

@guicohj

Жыл бұрын

Tires is more than half of it.

The most amazing thing is the tensile strength of that belt

@whatskrakin37

4 ай бұрын

You should see those extreme truck tug of wars, you’d be more surprised at the strength of a little belt/rope haha

that small difference could be just the type of tread design on the tires. Hardly notable. Or it could be the spot on the dirt where each tire was grabbing. Both the Cummin 6.7L and the Electric were limited by the terrain

Now do It 10 times and see who can still drive home.

@francesco1998

Жыл бұрын

Lightning already lost half its range just getting out there

@IanSizzler

Жыл бұрын

@@francesco1998 And the other trucks spent more $$ doing the same work

@r0m6v33

Жыл бұрын

@@IanSizzler at least the other trucks can do work

@Prestiged_peck

Жыл бұрын

I was waiting for the dodge's transmission to blow

@9663mu

Жыл бұрын

Lol spoken like a true EV hater 😆😁🤣

5:10 F150 vs Electric F150 8:00 Electric F150 vs Cummins

@theonewhostandsaboveall6826

Жыл бұрын

Thank you this what we needed

@rubenhernandez4394

Жыл бұрын

You sir are the goat 🐐

@redneckcomputergeek

Жыл бұрын

So glad I found this to avoid another BS filled episode!

@miragesmack007

Жыл бұрын

@@redneckcomputergeek wow, having to waste a whole 11 mins of your life, that must be brutal for you.

@ri3m4nn

Жыл бұрын

@@miragesmack007 you must be young

The lighting can't drive home now😂

@nc3826

Жыл бұрын

can't afford to drive the RAM home😂

@JusticeSociety26

Жыл бұрын

butthurt gas head

What happened was almost 1000 lbs of curb weight between the Raptor and the Lightning. The last two were more closely matched in weight. I will take the Ram however as I don't have to wait 5 days to charge at the RV park.

@neutrino78x

Жыл бұрын

real problem is that you live at an RV park 😲 Sorry to hear, hope you improve your situation 😞 Having said that, there are high power chargers that will charge that thing in like 20 min. 🙂you have to pay but it's less than half what is costs to fill a gas tank. Plus really everybody should have solar on the roof. We subsidize it here in California, and 46% of all homes in California have solar on the roof. If you have a big enough system, you can put excess power you don't use during the day into a battery, and then use that battery to charge your EV at night while also powering your house. 🙂

@joshuagarner1654

Жыл бұрын

What raptor?

@rickhughes8998

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuagarner1654 Reading comprehension not your thing? Let me mansplain it to ya boy. I compared the weight of the raptor to the lightning for context. Never said there was any Raptor in the video.

@BarryObaminable

Жыл бұрын

Many parks have 50 amp supply, which means it 24 hours or less

@neutrino78x

Жыл бұрын

@@BarryObaminable "Many parks have 50 amp supply, which means it 24 hours or less" hmmm....most electric cars charge overnight if you have one of the company's chargers installed....(with a high energy outlet like for a clothes dryer.)

Very nice tribute to the camera. Thank you Roman and Andre and TFL crew for entertaining me this morning.

Would love too see them do a rematch of the lightning and the ram on pavement that way traction is the next beneficial part for a tug o war. I also understand they’re being as gentle as they can for their vehicles which is why they’re doing it on dirt.

@Tron-Jockey

Жыл бұрын

8:27 "lets not burn out these trucks" LOL, you aren't hurting the electric. The vehicle which you're talking miles of life off of is the ICE. Torture test.

@jamesbowman5382

Жыл бұрын

This whole thing is stupid as long as the lightning only gets like 80 miles towing. I don't care if it has 50k lb/ft of torque... living in Texas that barely gets me out of town

@derekk6906

Жыл бұрын

I agree, just an overpriced wheelbarrow with an electric motor. Perfect for hauling bags of Mulch on the weekends. Way overrated.

@bradhiggins4813

Жыл бұрын

@@Tron-Jockey the ram will be on the road a decade after the electric; it’s repairable.

@IceTTom

Жыл бұрын

@@Tron-Jockey Wait... are you saying electric motors... don't burn out?!l lmao You've never worked with electric tools have you?

Now to see how it really stacks up, get a high output Cummins in the mix or wait for the new super duty to drop and get the high output powerstroke.

So how far will each one pull my 32 foot fifth wheel before refueling/recharging?

I ain’t giving up my Ram 6.7L

@nc3826

Жыл бұрын

NP, but someday your RAM, will give up on you

@shanemorton773

9 ай бұрын

No one said you had too kiddo, it's okay, your feelings are still intact.

Hey guys, what percentage of battery did those pulls kill?

@lawrencemaroun3310

Жыл бұрын

It would be less than 1%. Each pull only lasts for about 15 seconds. They would have to be flooring it and using the maximum power output for the entire pull to come close to using 1% of the battery. But they couldn't have been flooring it because then the wheels would have just been spinning. So the average power draw has to be much, much less than the maximum power. You also can't draw max power at low speed because your RPMs are too low. If we assume that the Lightning's wheels were spinning at about the right speed to travel 10mph, making the motor spin at about 1,000 rpm, at max torque that comes out to 110 kW. Over 15 seconds, that power draw would use 1/3 of 1% or roughly 0.3% of the battery. Even this is a high estimate because they couldn't have been using full torque on the dirt, so power would have been lower still.

@brandonweeks

Жыл бұрын

@@lawrencemaroun3310 I’m a technician that has to work on EV, you’re not even close to being correct

@heartwinners410

Жыл бұрын

About the same amount of Gas the diesel burned....lol

@rickpotera3942

Жыл бұрын

@@lawrencemaroun3310 That's an awfully technical response that isn't even remotely correct.

@lawrencemaroun3310

Жыл бұрын

@@rickpotera3942 what's the answer then? How did you arrive at it? Show me your assumptions and calculations. Otherwise you're just making stuff up. The math is clear as day. 430kw (max power) for an hour is 430kwh. 15 seconds is 15/3600 hours. 430 * (15/3600) is 1.8 kWh. That is 1.3% out of 130kWh. So that's a clear upper bound for energy consumed over 15 seconds and we know that they weren't flooring it, so we know that the true consumption was some fraction of 1.3%.

Hey question what type of walkie talkies are you using?

They failed to mention tires and tread patterns. I noticed the electric had combination tread, off road and highway compatibility. The ram looked like street only tread.

@3723kilo

Жыл бұрын

Ford sucks

Did you have to charge the Lighting in between pulls?

@Aqoura

Жыл бұрын

Ford probably overheated from the transmission though

Engineering explained broke down the science of this a few years ago. What should take place is the heaviest vehicle with the most force multipliers of torque will win the tug of war every time. I highly recommend watching his breakdown of the cyber trick vs f150 for reference

@RealJeep

Жыл бұрын

Correct. Tug or wars mean absolutely nothing. It means the vehicle with the best weight and distribution and tractive effort will win. If I had a 15,000 pound lawn mower with a 20 HP engine and it was geared correctly, I'd win.

@mguerra310

Жыл бұрын

But the heavier vehicle lost in this one. Even with having more weight and torque than the lightning the lightning still moved it. And with just using the front wheels. Impressive. ICE’s are on their way out.

@dee-or9zh

Жыл бұрын

True, the ram lost only due to turbo lag.

@mguerra310

Жыл бұрын

@@dee-or9zh it lost because of instant torque. Its that simple. Like hitting a light switch the light comes on right away. Same thing with EV’s.

@2wheelobsessed

Жыл бұрын

@@mguerra310 They are on the way out but not for any of the reasons you’re being led to believe.

The question is how much gas is left in the 6.7L vs how much charge did the EV truck burn through. Also the 6.7L hauling a load will go further on a tank of gas than the EV truck will go on a charge with the same load.

@ironfistleadfoot336

Жыл бұрын

Plus it takes 20 minutes to fill. Not hours if not several hours to charge. Which in the transportation world or hauling can be a nail in the coffin for EV. My other argument is. Generally diesels are pretty easy to repair in a break down situation. /Most/ people can't exactly repair a battery on the side of the road. Hell as far as I know most auto parts stores don't carry most EV components. Most of us can change an alternator or injector etc on the side of the road. Not a several hundred pound battery pack lol

In terms of Torque, it is very hard to compete with electric motors, pound per pound. Now being able to supply power to that electric motor is another story.

Thanks for the video, these videos are not very practical but VERY entertaining.

We can see the framing of the new building in the background. Did you guys set up a time lapse for the construction? Those are always good.

Did u turn off the advanced traction off on the king ranch f-150?

Nothing was mentioned of the tires. Regardless of the torque each truck has, the grip on the dirt road is the most important in a battle like this

All about tires and gearing and weight of its in the right spot. HP, torque don't matter much, a 50 HP tractor that weighs about the same as these trucks would out pull all of them

@Welcometofacsistube

Жыл бұрын

Gearing. I own a 1952 massy Ferguson 55 with a 60 hp 3 cylinder diesel and I assure you that in low in first it would pull any truck around with ease

@lustfulvengance

Жыл бұрын

We have a 30 year old 4x4 forklift at work with a optimistic 50hp Perkins in it but the thing is so damn heavy with its counterweight and ridiculous low range gearing I guarantee you that would outpull just about anything on the road!

@phalanx3803

Жыл бұрын

the weight alone makes big difference that EV is a good tonne heavier then its diesel counterpart.

@jamesbeaman6337

Жыл бұрын

@@Welcometofacsistube with a tractor, the other part of the equation is traction (hence the name). The usually lugged tires as well as the larger contact patch the larger diameter tires and lower pressures give you allow that torque from the low gearing to be more effectively transferred to the ground.

@Welcometofacsistube

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesbeaman6337 very true

I seem to remember that the Lighting had more aggressive tires put on it Hybrid still had the low rolling resistance tires on it.

@MJorgy5

Жыл бұрын

If they switched tires, the Lightning would still win.

How much to replace those batteries when they go and their availability?

So how much battery did the lighting use ?

Those TransForce tires on the Ram are totally abysmal!!! I took them off my Silverado HD that CarMax put on ... almost got stuck in my flat yard on grass.

This is also a tire test. Put a decent set of AT tires on the Ram and redo it. Those Firestone Transucks are AT in name only! And as far as an electric HD, what will that range be towing? 50 miles or less??? Have you guys seen all the 40 foot+, 3 axel fifth wheel trailers, behind 1 ton diesel powered dually pickups that are on the road? Also, love the eulogy to the camera at the end!!!

@johnnicpon5783

Жыл бұрын

@@Tony-bg6ql Trucks are meant to be driven wherever they are needed. I use mine to tow a 30' travel trailer.

@johnnicpon5783

Жыл бұрын

@@Tony-bg6ql And trucks have evolved since their creation. That is why we have 1\2 ton, 3\4 ton and 1 ton pickup trucks (both gas and diesel). They now serve multiple. purposes. And that includes towing.

If your going off a mountain an you run out of electricity do you have control of it still

Im impressed since the all electric f-150 it’s a half ton truck and it stood it’s ground against a much bigger and heavier ram diesel 2500 that’s a 3/4 ton.

please do it again on the pavement! all 3 had no traction

@Josh-179

Жыл бұрын

Roman said at the outset why they didn't. Really bad for the drivetrains to do tug of wars on pavement.

@donnelcrunk2122

Жыл бұрын

@@Josh-179 who cares, theyve got the money, we want to see the real deal dammit!

@jromem7313

Жыл бұрын

@@Josh-179 my whole point exactly 💯 see that lightning get pulled in half

@Josh-179

Жыл бұрын

@@donnelcrunk2122 , I'm surprised they have enough money to even pay for TFL's large staff. Most car KZreadr's only have 2-3 people on a payroll. Their vehicle's are on business loans.

@Josh-179

Жыл бұрын

@@jromem7313 , the Diesel Ram would likely win but it wouldn't be by much. Actually, the Lightening would have a shot because of the instant torque headstart creating momentum.

It was even between the RAM and the Ford Lightning. The RAM appeared to be more planted on the back end too. The Lightning looked like it was fish tailing more.

@daniel89123

Жыл бұрын

He was doing that on purpose to try and get traction

In the history of automobiles, exactly 0 tug of wars have ever meant anything 😂😂😂

This is an very easy explanation. No weight in the back of the diesel truck which means no traction for the rear wheels of the diesel truck. If some weight was in the back of the diesel truck it would pull the electric cord all over the field like it was nothing.

Solution found by Tug boats and train locomotives is use a DIESEL ENGINE TO RUN GENERATORS THAT RUN ELECTRIC MOTORS

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

The og hybrids dating back to pre ww2? Except it was diesel electric submarines who employed that tech first. Basically all large earth movers do the same thing, big stinking hot diesel powers a generator driving huge electric motors&hydraulics.😀

How much battery did the lightning go through

@davidanderson-22

Жыл бұрын

No one asks this when it's fossil fuel vs. fossil fuel. Just saying.

@gorillaman08zx

Жыл бұрын

@@davidanderson-22 because we can go to a gas station and put diesel or gas in a truck in about 35 seconds not 13 hours of charging

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

@@gorillaman08zx and any homeowner with this truck can pull up plug it in overnight in 3secs come out the next day and it's fully charged. Can't do that with any ice truck's and definetely not getting 70-80mpg out of an ice truck either. My emc gives me enough free energy to charge a lightning for 800-1000 miles a month. 😎

@gorillaman08zx

Жыл бұрын

@@4literv6 pull a 12,000 to 14,000 pound construction trailer 80 miles to a job and try to get back home, you can’t do that in any EV either, some of us actually use our trucks to work not just grab groceries!

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

@@gorillaman08zx isn't that more a 2500 series trucks tow weight? How far does your very inefficient slow diesel get towing a load like that on 3.5 or less gallons of fuel again? Gas 2500 towing that load wouldn't even get 30miles at hwy speeds on the same energy a lightning has. 🤔 Yeah I use my truck for actual work purposes to, over 80% of its miles have been with at least 2 people in it, carrying tools and stuff in the bed and or a trailer behind it. The lightning works just fine for those jobs and many more like it for those of us. Who aren't driving a truck just like a cowboy Cadillac or pavement princess type. 😀

Yeah, but can the Lightning haul 5k lbs 400 miles without stopping?

@chupa3851

Жыл бұрын

Bro this is literally at its infancy and is already outperforming engines decades in the making

@kesselrunner

Жыл бұрын

@@chupa3851 The entire electric vehicle industry is in its infancy. It's great that they have the performance, but I'm not going to be owning an EV until they can go the distance like a gas vehicle can.

@BatmanisBatman

11 ай бұрын

@@kesselrunner The tesla cybertruck can go 500 miles on one charge and it takes 15 minutes to charge. So yes the cybertruck can go just as far as a diesel without stopping AND cost 1/4 the price to refill it. Gas engines are a thing of the past.

@kesselrunner

11 ай бұрын

@@BatmanisBatman Sure, but hauling a trailer will cut that range in half. The battery tech needs a lot more development if it wants to be as practical as gas or diesel. Solid state batteries look promising, but that might take a couple decades.

@BatmanisBatman

11 ай бұрын

@@kesselrunner No hauling a trailer does not cut that distance in half if anything it would be a 10-20% distance reduction at most which is still better than the ford who only gets 400 miles on one tank which is also reduced because it has to haul a trailer. There really is no comparison here, the cybertruck gets almost 100 more miles on one charge for 1/4 the price.

Thank you so so much for all your videos and your book everything great 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I think another advantage an EV has in a tug-of-war, is that when you’re not accelerating, you’re stopping. There’s just no dead time between being on the accelerator and moving to the brakes. Even if you let off the accelerator in the Lightning, you’ll be fighting the electric motors. Pretty cool!

@aaron-fauth

Жыл бұрын

That’s where the advantages end

@forthebetter1996

Жыл бұрын

@@aaron-fauth Dynamic, thanks for the reply 😂

@horsefly1020

Жыл бұрын

Weight

@u-law8149

Жыл бұрын

@@forthebetter1996 4 play 😂

@DG-sf9ei

Жыл бұрын

Oh little guy, the fights soon over when the electric pile runs out of battery power like an rc car, then gets pulled off a cliff where it belongs instead of the nearest charging station.

Do all the vehicles have the same tires?

How many km/miles can u get before u need a recharge?

The difference is likely due to the differentials. In the Ram the front and rear differentials are open (do not have lockers). Meaning that the 4 wheel drive on the Ram is actually 2 wheel drive because when the wheels start to spin with an open diff all the traction is diverted to the wheel with the most grip. This then results in one wheel on the front and one wheel on the rear having traction on the ram. This is also true of the Ford hybrid. The EV has a different system and has a traction control system which allows all for wheels to have traction. The system gives traction to each wheel and senses slip for each wheel. If you want to make it fair you need a Ram or other diesel truck with front and rear lockers. This will give traction to all four wheels and the Ram will kick ass. A lot of people talk inaccurately about 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive. The truth is that 2 wheel drive has only 1 wheel drive in limited traction situations. In 2 wheel drive with a locker engaged it has 2 wheel drive. In 4 wheel drive with the rear locker engaged it has 3 wheel drive. In 4 wheel drive with the front and rear lockers engaged it has 4 wheel drive.

@perpelle

Жыл бұрын

I'm quite certain that the majority of all manufacturers have brake based anti slip in all transfer case modes, especially 2H and 4H(if not turned off). The lightning only has two motors, one in each axle with open differentials. It must use the rear locker or brake wheel/s.

Looks like a win for BF Goodrich tires

Funny how the front tires on the king ranch spun to start with but at the end was only spinning the back tires

Were the trucks in tow \ haul mode?

lots of feelings going to be hurt

@electroniccheeks

Жыл бұрын

Not really. It's just for entertainment. No one with a ounce of logic will purchase a vehicle based on this video.

It's kinda funny how the lightning pulled an old school ford 2 1/2 wheel spin trick and still managed to win by a hamster's left ass cheek 😂😂

@NDRN88

Жыл бұрын

Now pull the same load for 101 miles. Can't.

@kingshawn1857

Жыл бұрын

@@NDRN88 well I think in the right scenario it could but see it's 102 miles that scares me 🤣🤣

@RealJeep

Жыл бұрын

Obviously you know nothing about physics. The heaviest truck with the best traction will win every time. Electric vehicles are god awful heavy.

@kingshawn1857

Жыл бұрын

@@RealJeep well obviously you don't hear too well the diesel weighs nearly a 1000lbs more than the lightning and nearly a ton more than the hybrid and btw in this case the tires don't make a big difference the tires on the lightning are not that much more aggressive than the ram so your argument is pointless

@mguerra310

Жыл бұрын

@@RealJeep but the ram was heavier

Was there tension on the rope the first pull? Seeming like it wasn’t and lighting got a tug in there lol.

You guys are nuts but worth every minute of this video.

You should have used the GM 3.0 Duramax to represent the Diesel. then put 1,500 lb in the beds and do it on concrete. Then we will see how tough those drivetrains are!

This is the first gen of the F150EV. As the batteries tech get better and the motors get better, they are going to be tough to ignore as a great replacement. Most people here in the big cities drive trucks don't really use it for work. It's just a family hauler.

Do they have the same tires

So I watching this the ram and the lightning I think , yes we saw the benifit of the instant torque but we also saw the down side of the electric motor. Because what I think we saw is what happens when an electric motor meets its max load. When a electric motor meets its max load it just stops a traditional diesel or gas truck it will continue to try and pull hence why the electric didn’t dig in but the diesel did. You see this with all kinds of electric motors.

@jackwsandoz

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure that just comes down to different methods of traction control. (Brake based vs power based) If the electric motors had just stopped, the Lightning would've given up ground rather than gaining a very slight amount of it, over the truck that's spinning tire.

@AvgDan

Жыл бұрын

I think it had plenty of power to peel out on dirt and traction control prevented rear tire spin.

more spinage then poppeye

5:34 did you lose 4wd on the hybrid?

what is the efficiency how much charge was lost ..

They can build a heavy duty electric truck all they want. The fact of the matter is the milage will never be the same. As you showed in your test with the lightning and the GMC with the 6.2 gasser. When it takes you ten fill ups at a charger bank at how many hours each time, to just pulling up to the pump and taking five minutes at most. The pump will win every time, I don't know about anyone else but my time is worth more than saving a few dollars, issues by using an electric truck. Green energy is steeped in black coal!

Interesting. I get the point. In theory the electric with its weight should win I think. After all diesel locomotives are actually electrically driven. Doing it on dirt however just invalidates the entire test, no?

@pin65371

Жыл бұрын

The electric will also have very precise traction control. All the torque in the world doesn't really matter if you can't put the power to the ground.

@paulhoffman778

Жыл бұрын

Why not do it on snow also you have a good point sand is loose , why wouldn't you do it on cement or am I wrong.🤔

@pstoneking3418

Жыл бұрын

They were both on the same dirt , not sure that invalidates the entire test. I also believe the lightning would win even easier on pavement because of the traction control. The other trucks would be burning up their tire where the lightning would control that from happening. As the other trucks rubber started to melt the lightning would take off.

The lighting looks like a ton smoother ride as well. Just look at 8:12 vs 8:14

@garyszewc3339

Жыл бұрын

Look at any review, the ram has the best ride of any full size pickup. I don't know woman right now but the last one I had rode better than my Cadillac

This not the concern but refueling how long does it take to recharge vs refueling!

Did you disable traction control? Did you lock the rear diff? The hybrid looked like the 4x4 wasn’t working.

@gregelton1045

Жыл бұрын

That is exactly what I was thinking. The Lightning would probably pull my 2003 FX4, but I guarantee my front and rear wheels would be spinning.

@larrysmith6797

Жыл бұрын

It's an EV.

@Treyk901

Жыл бұрын

@@larrysmith6797 ?? The very first pull was the lightning vs the hybrid… I was asking about the hybrid.

@gregelton1045

Жыл бұрын

@@larrysmith6797 What is an EV? We know the blue one (the Lightning) is an EV. All 4 wheels seem to be turning on it. The question is, why on the King Ranch was the front wheels not spinning. After looking closer I think I see why. Because it was not an FX4. Not sure on newer trucks, but my FX4 has locking front and rear differential. Meaning 4 wheel drive is really, 4 wheel drive. The standard 4wd is really 3wd and sometimes 2wd. Meaning the tire with the most traction gets the power, sometimes leaving the other with no power. So, it would seem (I don't know this), the EV is a "true" 4wd drive vehicle with motors at both axles. The King Ranch was the standard 4x4 which means, at best it was down 1 wheel on traction. The results may had been the same, but we will never know with a bias test example. Also, knowing the EV has instant torque, the KW (and Ram) should have been brake torqued at an RPM closer to their peak torque. Just to be a fair comparison.

@Austin-iq7ds

Жыл бұрын

@@gregelton1045 f150s have never had a locking front diff. They do have locking rears. I think the hybrid 4x4 was working, just the open diff in the front was doing its thing and we never saw the other front wheel

Man! Andre bending over yelling, “Roman, is the hole too small?” Cracked me up. You guys are better than Top Gear, great video! 2:11

@Salvitrojan7

Жыл бұрын

Better than the current top gear sure.. better than the original top gear with Jeremy, James & Richard hello no.. haha

Just wondering what happens in the northeast or the Northwest or Central Plain states during the winter when you have to heat EV vehicles to stay warm. How much drain is that going to put on the batteries of an EV?

Lighting probably had to charge up to make it home after that 😆

Keep in mind, torque ratings for an electric vehicle and a combustion vehicle should not be compared. Technically, the only time it's appropriate to compare powertrain torque ratings for two vehicles is if they have identical geartrain reduction ratios. That's because, all that matters is tire tractive force. This is the force that is pushing the vehicle forward at the contact patch. It’s dependent on wheel torque, tire radius, and coefficient of friction. To calculate wheel torque, you need to understand all multipliers between the powertrain and the wheels. Ram 2500 6.7l 850 ft*lb (6.7l engine) x 2:1 (assumed torque converter stall ratio) x 3.23:1 (68RFE 1st gear ratio) x 2.64:1 (Borg Warner 44-46 low ratio) x 3.73 (axle final drive ratio) ≈ 54,000 ft*lb (wheel torque peak) Ford Lightning 775 ft*lb (believed to be combined (front + rear) peak motor torque) x ((9.72+9.61)/2):1 (average gear reduction ratio) ≈ 7,500 ft*lb (wheel torque peak) Because the two vehicles have near identical tire diameters, it can be said this Ram has around 7X more potential pulling force than the Lightning. Realistically though, there will be traction limits negating a large portion of the advantage the Ram has. Also, as this video demonstrates, software intervention plays a role too.

@johnjaniak473

Жыл бұрын

Nice job breaking that down , people forget about gear multiplication

@MJorgy5

Жыл бұрын

Ram hits peak torque at what rpm? Before that, it's way less. ..So, it's kind of a moot point. Towing at speed would be a different story.

@dalemllns

Жыл бұрын

can always find the engineer....

@GAMMA_AF

Жыл бұрын

Nerd

@BlankIsTaken

Жыл бұрын

No one asked nerd

always love a good tug of war.......but it only proves which truck is heavier and or has more traction. same weight/traction then it comes down to the driver who keeps their tires from peeling out first. I had a ford courier push a chevy camino back on concrete, because he punched it and was peeling first, my 4 banger didn't have the guts to peel and kept traction.

@UncleKennysPlace

Жыл бұрын

Peeling reduces traction.

@murdoch9106

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, and EV's has crazy power control, that car or truck dont want to spin it can easily make sure it never will, you just cant get that level of control in a convetional powertrain. Its a very silly thing to do and its mostly just a show that say little to nothing about either vehicle.

@ryanb7476

Жыл бұрын

@@murdoch9106 facts.

I can just see the for sale descriptions!! Lightly driven by my daughter she’s very cautious! It’s never towed anything! The truck has very light use age!

Now for the next challenge let's see how far the gas and diesel trucks can go between fuel stops versus the electric truck.

@neutrino78x

Жыл бұрын

ok, so the electric one has to stop for 20 minutes. The electric Ford Lightning actually has 320 miles of range, in the platinum trim. Do you drive more than that at work? The less expensive one has 230 miles range...again, do you drive longer than that at work is the question. 🙂

Not just weight and power numbers but the way the power is applied and how the mitigation of power is achieved in wheel spin conditions. electric drive is far superior in all these situations. Their weak point is only the lack of energy density in the pack compared to a fuel tank.

@SweetLou0523

Жыл бұрын

Which has basically been solved, they are just working on developing the production methon for commercial production. In essence, researchers accidentally made a Lithium Sulfur battery that was stable at room temp (previous the sulfur composition was only stable wwhen hot) This particular chemistry doubles the energy density of conventional lithium ion. So you can either get the same capacity with half the battery size, or double the capacity with the same size footprint.

@dundonrl

Жыл бұрын

@@SweetLou0523 It's FAR from being solved! Even the absolute best battery in an EV is the equivalent of about 4 gallons of gasoline!

@markgeisewite2687

Жыл бұрын

And that weak point makes them utterly impractical for a lot of us.

@danh8302

Жыл бұрын

@@markgeisewite2687 in the mining and heavy equipment industry, we use electric for a vast array of things. It is objectively superior in terms of propulsion.

@danh8302

Жыл бұрын

@@dundonrl which speaks to how energy dense gasoline and diesel are. Conversely how much of that energy we waste making it into heat instead of propulsion. On the flip side, how efficient an electric drive is getting that kind of range on 4 gal equivalent. Or conversely how little relative energy is stored in a battery vs a fuel tank.

I knew all the reasons why this would not be a particularly informative video. Yet, I watched and enjoyed it anyway. Nice job guys..we can't always be scientific. sometimes, you have to spin tires on dirt.

@jesuschristiskingandsavior461

Жыл бұрын

"Sometimes you just have to spin tires in dirt" Amen to That!

Just in case you were wondering. The Cummings 6.7L engine is an inline 6 not a v8 like in the Ford's pickups. Very cool test guys 😆

Weight Distribution, gearing, torque proportioning, and tires make most of the difference here.

That's was neat watching the electric vs the diesel, I'd like to see a 3500 gas or diesel vs the electric and see how they do

@flyingsavage8522

Жыл бұрын

This would be a lot better on some asphalt where the one with better dirt tires won’t win every time

Battery may have more torque but until they figure out the life of that battery while towing I will keep my diesel. Good video guys

@jim2498

Жыл бұрын

For me it the cost of the EV vehicles and the cost to replace the battery.

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

@@jim2498 why worry about that though? Since 2010 at the cell level ev pack's have gone down over 800% per kwh. Also all evs sold in the U.S. have an 8yr or 100,000 mile federal ev battery warranty. 👍🏻

@jim2498

Жыл бұрын

@@4literv6 still a lot of money to spend on a battery. And vehicle last well over 100k

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

@@jim2498 average new vehicle is 12yrs otr here in the U.S. Again why worry about the pack replacement cost when it's covered for at least 8yrs or 100k? Ev pack's are not cell phone batteries. These are highly engineered very well designed heated&cooled pack's.

@Cal56347

Жыл бұрын

@@jim2498 You'd realistically never have to replace a battery pack. The new packs are 300k-500k mile packs.

Thank for the info

Gas truck is 2 wheel drive? Is the lightning all wheel drive? Heres a thought 4x4 to 4x4. Andreas truck clearly was either 4x2 or not in 4x4( f150) Ram was in 4x4.

In a tug of war with 4x4s , the heavier vehicle wins , especially on dirt

@jasonperry7970

Жыл бұрын

100 % yes. I've seen rust bucket 80s 4 cylinder Toyotas out pull brand new diesels. Of course the beds were full of sand or scrap iron....

Considering the number one influence on pulling is how aggressive the tires are I would say the Ram 2500 did really well for itself! In order to win a tug of war in dirt in order of importance: Tires, weight, power, relative hitch height.

@mguerra310

Жыл бұрын

It lost what do you mean? Not only that the lightning weighing less and having less torque and only on 2 wheels. Anyways it doesn’t matter the ICE is on it’s way out.

@clarkstonguy1065

Жыл бұрын

@@mguerra310 The Ram 2500 comes with tires that are primarily designed for good fuel economy that have very little tread, they are really horrible for off road use. What I meant is that the tires that TFL put on the F-150 would have given it such a massive advantage in the tug of war it is surprising that the Ram could more or less hold its own. They did say the Ram was 1000 lbs heavier and that would help offset the tires a bit.

@mguerra310

Жыл бұрын

@@clarkstonguy1065 well the lightning is not really equipped with some off road special tire (unless the guys changed them and i am not aware of). Tires on EV’s are designed with getting the most range out them. On top of that i think they said that the lightning was only using it’s front 2 tires. I just think it’s really simple: quickest to the draw is going to win in this type of scenario. Instant torque just gets the upper hand.

@russmoynham950

Жыл бұрын

@@mguerra310 Lightning had BFG T/A KO2 tires, and the Ram has it's factory Firestone Transforce HT or AT tires - I think AT, but couldn't see clearly enough to be sure.

@johnmora7449

Жыл бұрын

Yes Sir. To me this was just funny to watch. Aggressive tires on the ford and less aggressive tires on the RAM and of course the ford is going to win. Plus the RAM is not designed to pull from the rear. The tow hooks are on the front for a reason. Have the RAM going back wards on compound low with equal tires and this ram will pull this out.

Tug a war is all about traction. Weight, contact patch of tires, torque to turn the tires without breaking traction. In that order. Theres tricks to make up for uneven comparisons.

What's the battery life now??

Ain't the letric heavier than both? Hitch heights and wheel base can matter too

Watching the initial pull between the Lightning and the Ram, technically it was a draw because the flag only moved because of line stretch. Neither the Lightning nor the Ram managed to budge the other.

@hybrid.roodragon1226

Жыл бұрын

These kinds of competitions are silly because its down to the wheel and tire setup on top of the vehicles weight and torque. If the tires had grip it would be a torque competition and it becomes boring.

@jameshenson4871

Жыл бұрын

How about a real world test of pulling max load for a pre determined distance in a certain amount of time? I guarantee the Ram would be victorious! Electric trucks aren't where they need to be-by a long shot. No matter how much the government and private business tries to sell it, I am not sold. The range isn't where it should be loaded. The cars are a different story.

@matthewseanchapman6310

Жыл бұрын

I agree with that

@gingie5246

Жыл бұрын

@@user-vi9st9lv1q the electric f150 weighs more than the hybrid f150 so of course it’s going to get drug around. Thats why the ram was the equalizer.

@ronaldking1054

Жыл бұрын

@@jameshenson4871 Okay, put 3.88 gallons into your Ram and do that versus the electric because that is the tank size in terms of gasoline for the battery. That would be your real-world test. It will lose.

The biggest determinants in a pull like this are weight and tire tread and pressure. Torque only matters if you don’t have enough to spin the tires. Once you have that much torque, anything more is wasted.

Still more scientific than that "cyber truck pulling that F-150" in 2 wheel drive video.

Actually I think this did show a lot! The instant torque helps at first with the ram 2500 but the rams tires kept spinning so when it’s on pavement I believe the ram would lose for a fraction of a second then regain the ground and win. Very cool!!

Tires, surface condition, rope stretch, who's on the throttle quicker,.. all those and other factors come into play here. Maybe a better way is to load up a large/heavy trailer and pull up a steep hill on asphalt against the clock, whaddya think TFL? Now there are three trucks that I would not want to buy after this LOL.

@Sixinthefield

Жыл бұрын

they did exactly that in a video not long ago...........

@regsparkes6507

Жыл бұрын

@@Sixinthefield Opps! I missed that one., I'll look it up.

Notice at 8:17: No rear passenger side wheel spin on the Lightning. Gotta wonder if a diff lock would have made the difference.

Newer Rams with Cummins motors have a bit of a lag in their throttle response. I don't think it would have gone backwards at all if the response was quicker. I'd like to see this with a duramax and powerstroke as well.

Well the fact that the Lightening only has an 86 mile range while towing a trailer is a complete deal breaker for me. I'll stick with my Ram Cummins Diesel for anything needing to be towed, thanks!!

@ahuskyslegacy7896

Жыл бұрын

Basically “the lightning beat the ram but let me come up with something to make me feel better about my POS Chrysler”

@jasonwescott3105

Жыл бұрын

@@ahuskyslegacy7896 would you hitch up to a 43' 5th wheel camper with that POS lightening and tow it down the road for 80 miles then stop for 4-6 hours to recharge it to drive another 80 miles?? Spoken like a true Ford fan.

@ahuskyslegacy7896

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonwescott3105 I wouldn’t buy a 5th wheel camper when I have a house to sleep in. And if I did my local campground is within 30 miles so yes I would actually. People try to overcomplicate towing range with the lightning. For the 1% of people traveling 100’s of miles to sleep outside go ahead and get a ram and make sure you wear your seatbelt so when your transmission slips 100 times on the ride you don’t hit the dashboard

@jasonwescott3105

Жыл бұрын

@@ahuskyslegacy7896 well clearly you’re the utmost expert on all things towing!! Next time I’ll be sure to ask you all about it before I make a stupid purchase like a 5th wheel. Oh, and I do have a house to sleep in as well. Why would I buy a 5th wheel to only go 30 miles? That makes as much sense as a submarine with a screen door.

@ahuskyslegacy7896

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonwescott3105 why does it matter if you are 30 miles or 100 miles away in your 5th wheel? Is a 100 mile away camp site better than a close one lol. Let me just drive 300 miles away to park my 5th wheel in the woods when I have the same woods 20 miles down the road

This is more about traction, really, isn't it? On pavement would be interesting, prob hard on the trucks, but possibly a better test.

@TerrellSpivey

Жыл бұрын

Definitely!

I would why the gas powered truck had no front wheel spin at all was it in four wheel drive?

The powertrain is relatively unimportant in this test. It only tests traction, a factor of tires weight distribution and delivery to the ground.

I would say that the Lighting also has the better tires for pulling in the dirt.

@jackwsandoz

Жыл бұрын

Interesting🤔 all 3 Lightning factory-tire options are super low rolling resistance street tires... even their "A/T" option looks to be Hankook Dynapro AT2's in a 275/60R20. (Wouldn't be too out of place on a soccer mom SUV) What did you base that on?

@bartz118

Жыл бұрын

@@jackwsandoz Before they took the truck to Alaska, the swapped out the factory tires for BF Goodrich Trail Terrain TA tires.

Hold the brakes till the other one starts to spin then pull.

I'd love to see the King Ranch against a TRD Pro Tundra. Both with TT3.5V6 that would be pretty fun

Why not do the tests on asphalt or a regular road?

That instant torque is awesome 👏

@TheGoddamnBacon

Жыл бұрын

Hey, if EV trucks have at least one advantage, I suppose that's it. At least if they have the tires to match that.

@carholic-sz3qv

Жыл бұрын

And the ev 50/50 weight distribution is actually what makes the difference lol….

@dearbulls

Жыл бұрын

It is awesome but really it's more of its weight that win the race.

@flyingsavage8522

Жыл бұрын

@@dearbulls the tires aren’t being considered here as much as they should be since it’s on dirt and the lighting has a far better tires for dirt than the ram. I agree the weight it also a major factor in this case

@skrapenpennies9947

Жыл бұрын

@@dearbulls exactly

I would like to see the lighting pull a weight sled!

@4literv6

Жыл бұрын

There is some video of a rivian r1t doing that at a tractor pull event on tik tok and Instagram.

@doubled8247

Жыл бұрын

@@4literv6 and it rocked a full pull lol

@jdlutz1965

Жыл бұрын

When Ford launched the Lightning, they did a cool demo of pulling a fully loaded freight train with the pickup.