Short version…not really. What do you think?

@RamonRed-pg3ln

3 сағат бұрын

Make a video about alberto fusar

John was betrayed by Dutch twice and he stayed in the gang because he didn't have anything else to go or because he didn't want to leave Arthur alone

No John like Arthur, never betrayed Dutch. It was Dutch's ego, and willingly allowing Micah to manipulate him by acting as a yes man, that things became so bad. Even if that weren't the case, you have Hosea who knew what Dutch was like and challenged him on his decisions.

@justsomeguy747

Күн бұрын

Arthur and John did conspire behind Dutch’s back by expressing considerable doubts about him and desiring to steal his money. Granted, Dutch cared little about them but still I can see why he would be angry at them. Then again they witnessed him betraying his ideals by being a hypocrite making them become disillusioned with him and additionally, that alone caused them to think for themselves, of what and who they should be loyal to

@GraighSoul

Күн бұрын

@@justsomeguy747Very true, however, they only contemplated it if things got that bad. But they never outwardsly did it, hence the feeling of betrayal.

@josephstalin2606

21 сағат бұрын

@@justsomeguy747 Very true a lot of people don’t acknowledge this because “going for the money” is considered low honor and therefore not “canon” but even with high honor Arthur and John still talk about stealing the money. So they betrayed Dutch in spirit but not actually

@TonyG8992

20 сағат бұрын

There are many signs that Dutch was playing everyone like a fiddle, even Micah. Micah was good at kissing his ass, and acting he was loyal, but people all blame Micah for everything, the Blackwater massacre, The Saint Denis bank, Dutch’s downfall, when all the blame is goes to Dutch. Sure it was Micah’s idea and encouragement, Dutch had no reason to murder Heidi McCourt, everyone said that wasn’t like Dutch to do that. Same goes for Saint Denis, Micah was also getting shot the damn Gatling gun. Micah always had some sort of agenda but he clearly betrayed the gang AFTER Fleeting Joy. Truth of the matter is, Dutch fucked over everyone, even Micah in the epilogue. IMO Dutch was the true antagonist of Red Dead 2

@RaymondBrown-lf4nw

13 сағат бұрын

@@justsomeguy747 I wouldn’t call it a betrayal. At that point Dutch had already left John behind and had been openly accusing them of being traitors. He also began to constantly dismiss and disrespect Arthur.

I believe one of the best scenes in the game is how furious John was with Dutch: “You left me!!” Poor guy felt so betrayed and the voice actor nailed that line. The love of money 💵 💰 destroys all. Plus Dutch is blind because I put so much cash in that blasted box but nooooo: “good job Arthur but we need more money!!”

@user-mu8dm4rk7g

Күн бұрын

It was never about the money for Dutch. It was about continuing this outlaw lifestyle, being "free" from any limits society imposed on him. This sick idea of "freedom" kept him going till the end...

@Gabriel-ki7uj

Күн бұрын

​@@user-mu8dm4rk7g yeah he never truly wanted to retire to Tahiti he wanted his way of life to continue indefinently

No, Dutch's ego just didn't allow him to move on. If Hosea, Lenny, and Sean (if he actually saw through him) survived, Dutch would have taken any opportunity to leave them behind as well. Hosea wasn't perfect but he tried. Lenny and Hosea both saw through Dutch for a while. Eventually, Arthur and John too. Heidi McCourt did as well. Dutch never changed.

@user-xz9gd9cr5n

Күн бұрын

Well i mean Dutch was actually able to see THROUGH Hiedi McCourt

@paco680

21 сағат бұрын

So I guess not even Hosea or Lenny could have stopped him to completely destroy the gang, just because he was so selfish and stubborn

What if Dutch shot Micah not because of this shame about Arthur's death but because he realized that Arthur words that Micah was a rat made a lot of sense when he looked at it and Micah would probaly sell out Dutch like he did to the gang 8 years earlier

@nidhoggr8193

2 күн бұрын

I think it's a mix of both. If you notice, Dutch gets visibly upset when Arthur is brought up. Specifically, when Micah says, "Arthur's been dead a long time!!" As Micah says this Dutch looks at him with a look of frustration and pain, ending with a look of fury before he gets back his composer and looks back at John. It's difficult to see this because of John's camera angle but you can see it if you look closely.

@josephstalin2606

21 сағат бұрын

@@nidhoggr8193 Dutch looks at Micah every time he speaks it’s not specific to that one line. Plus if you shoot Micah while negotiating then Dutch still shoots you regardless

dutch started it like john said in american venom

john was acting strange around Dutch because he saw his change

Dutch betrayed Dutch by turning on the Arthur and John and Charles. The ones who actually tried to save the gang from going head first into a car wreck.

John was like Arthur. You can see it in St Denis. 'Never should'a gonna gone after Bronte Dutch!' John never actually betrayed him, he did what needed to be done just like Arthur did. But he saw the truth

John didn’t betray Dutch, Dutch betrayed John

1:47 Pause here, a fuckin' bird falls out of the sky

@dimlightbulb10

Күн бұрын

that's a leaf

no. If anything, he betrayed himself

It's exactly like Sadie said: The Dutch who put a blanket on me after the O'Driscolls wasn't the same Dutch from Beaver Hollow

The short answer is no. John didn't betray Dutch, Dutch betrayed both him and Arthur.

no way i've finished ghost of tsushima about 1 month ago and just ended read dead 2 and you consistently provide awesome content for both, great channel discovery thx

@CynicGTA

2 күн бұрын

Thank you! Dont think vids on those games are going to stop, at least not anytime soon. Excited for the branch out by the end of this year tho👀

Hey man. Love these vids. Ive been hooked the past few days.

Your output on videos is incredibly inspiring cynic

Can u do a vid on what if jack marston got shipped to italy instead of going to bronte

Dutch did abandon John but John and Arthur did make that whole plan to take some money off the gang

I liked Dutch a very Smart & Level Headed dude a Leader until Chapter 6 Annabelle dying & the Deaths of Mac, Jenny, Davey just put him down this Path Hosea was the Last Straw

i would LOVE for you to do the uncharted series soon as i believe that the amount of depth and exploration that you can go into especially when the games characters take center stage and the adventures are more of a backdrop it would definitely be fun and intriguing to see you analyze them

@CynicGTA

2 күн бұрын

Im currently running through them right now. Fingers crossed i can start making videos on it soon. But, i wanna do the series justice and i have a few other videos/games to wrap up like the mafia series. But uncharted is definitely coming!

Something thats just come to me watching John coming back to camp is Bill's confused "John?" Bill would have followed Dutch to the end until this, i think this is what turned Bill into who he is in RDR, it broke him completely knowing the man who put his hope and trust into can betray one of his own "sons." He eventually realised that to Dutch he was just a tool and a servant just like John and Arthur, and like them Dutch would sacrifice him if he even sensed disloyalty(real or not). In a way Arthur's sacrifice saved Bill and Javier from Dutch's influence but they couldnt leave the life of crime behind.

What john really betrayed was shooting uncle in undead njghtmare

John still respected Dutch for raising him. He still had painful memories of him though which is why he was so conflicted. With Bill and Javier, he was also very conflicted and tried to peacefully capture them despite his commitment to his family, but with Dutch it was far more complex, especially considering how Dutch saved John from Micah and allowed him to fulfil one of John’s biggest goals - killing the man who betrayed the gang and do right by Arthur as Arthur would’ve also hunted Micah down if he lived, but he would discourage John from doing so himself.

Imma guess the next Ghost of Tsushima video is going to be about...Tenzo?

Liked and subscribed. If you’re still making RDR content I’ll follow you into the depths of hell itself!

@CynicGTA

2 күн бұрын

Oh, dont you worry. I still got a few RDR vids coming!

@papaperc522

Күн бұрын

@@CynicGTA Thank you! Keep up the excellent work! We all appreciate you!

Dutch recognized the error in his ways when shot Micah. But look at how he looked at john afterwards. If wasn't for ross, marston would've left Dutch alone.

20:53 Dutch certainly did "go down" on his own terms.

cynic never die pls ur so awesome sauce

Micah told Dutch to leave John and he told Dutch to leave Arthur when the O’Driscolls captured Arthur so basically Micah suggested a parlay with Colm O’Driscoll to kidnap and kill Arthur because if Pearson knew only about it in the mission Blessed are the peacemakers then how would Micah know where the location was and Micah told Dutch that Arthur would find his way back

Every time Cynic is on you listen!

It's true John left the gang for a year and pissed off the gang when he was eventually allowed to return. John's questionable loyalty was brought up upon his return and after multiple tense exchanges as well as John's actions and the problems Dutch causes, it slowly becomes clear John is loyal to the gang. I gotta admit during RDR2 and RDR John's sense of loyalty is adamant even if it is misplaced or lost at times.

Hi Cynic, love your videos.. it's not much money but you deserve it

@CynicGTA

Күн бұрын

Wow, thank you so much. Watching alone is more than i can ask for. This is so kind of you. Thank you so much!

@Kindless_NightcoreYT

Күн бұрын

@@CynicGTA your welcome

Short answer No

No, never.

Babe wake up, new Cynic RDR2 video analysis

How many times have u placed rdr2?

I think John didn’t want to kill Dutch because he raised him and Arthur

John and Arthur never betrayed Dutch or the gang it was because Dutch was easily manipulated By Micah even more after Dutch had his brain injury during the trolley station mission and after Hosea died Micah weaseled his way to be Dutch’s right hand bitch because Dutch liked violence because Micah wanted him to be ruthless, nasty and vindictive

I just played RDR1 for the first time since like 2012 and just got past the part where you finally catch bill. I noticed that you said the only time you had a choice between sparing or killing was with Javier. But when I caught bill I couldn’t decide what to do and eventually Reyes shoots the Mexican president and bill stands up to give himself up. Unfortunately for him that’s when I decided I wasn’t letting him live. But it seemed like the game was going to let me capture him alive. Anyone know what happens if you don’t shoot him right there?

@jizzer9000

9 сағат бұрын

Bill goes to shoot you, if you don’t kill him first he kills you - much like Edgar Ross

No.

John and Arthur didn't betray Dutch, Dutch betrayed them

Did he was loyal? Yes and no because he leave the gang 1 year left behind his wife and kid then he return before robbery blackwater when you play mission arther hunt ear with hosea he tell about john ditch gang 1 year I wounder why? And here we know why jack say john sir instead father

If losing faith counts as betrayal then yes. Otherwise dutch betrayed John

No

Dutch betrayed him :(

WHY DUTCH WHY

Noone betrayed dutch dutch betrayed everyone else

Arthur didn’t betray Dutch. John didn’t betray Dutch. Micah didn’t betray Dutch. Dutch betrayed Dutch!

Under 10 Min ? 👇🏾

Some of these videos are kinda pointless if u played the game uk the answer basically going over everything we know .

Thank you for the spoiler warning at the beginning, i havent played rdr1 yet and so i will return to this video after i have 🫡

It's true John left the gang for a year and pissed off the gang when he was eventually allowed to return. John's questionable loyalty was brought up upon his return and after multiple tense exchanges as well as John's actions and the problems Dutch causes, it slowly becomes clear John is loyal to the gang. I gotta admit during RDR2 and RDR John's sense of loyalty is adamant even if it is misplaced or lost at times.

@josephstalin2606

21 сағат бұрын

I think Arthur is the only one who had a real problem with John returning. It’s not like John wasn’t allowed to return and eventually did, he just came back after a year and it’s said that Dutch welcomed him back with open arms. That’s why Arthur says “If it had been anyone else” but Hosea says its about time for Arthur to just let it go