This took ONE Month to make... Help me make more by Supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Strategiser

@GulagFrienduwu

Жыл бұрын

4:40 is that music from frostpunk?

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

yes!

@ruukinen

Жыл бұрын

So where can I read about the meta which informs these tier decisions? Assumptions about the fleet compositions are what make large slots weapons bad. I understand it's because of torpedoes that deal extra damage to them, but are torpedoes worth it to run against smaller ships or is this just a "if the opponent has intel on you/has the time to refit you are in for a world of hurt"?

@Regunes

Жыл бұрын

@@ruukinen They're mostly up to strat, but he usually use peer advices and hang in very proficient discord. So yeah, if Strat stays it's good, it's at best a tier above/under, nothing major. -edit: he rated the bubble weapon too low tho, the Cordileptic drone civic makes it very strong.

@ruukinen

Жыл бұрын

@@Regunes Sure, but I want to read about the meta around this tier list since I don't have the context to know why something was placed somewhere on the list. For obvious things like PDs being woefully undertuned and downright buggy, I understand that it's bad -> because it just is. But something that looks reasonable is at best C tier here and I want to understand why.

Imagine 1 year ago telling a chadcannon + neutron launcher player that they would be dethroned by torpedo + disruptor users.

@kylevernon

Жыл бұрын

Exactly what just happened to me.

@kainwittrig2180

Жыл бұрын

I’ll be honest I don’t like the Mets at all man it the disruptor torpedo cruisers I have don’t actually kill the ships they just force disengagement all the time which leads to tons of battle where I don’t kill a single ship but I win and it’s frustration but my artillery battleships tear apart fleets and cause war exhaustion I just have a hard time seeing this as Mets especially when no retreat exist

@bastos95ful

Жыл бұрын

​@@kainwittrig2180If you play defensive end it is especially useful if you have a fallen empire, hive mind or advanced empire next to you.

People beware: this is mostly catered for mp. AI ships still use a lot of shields.

@robguy8501

Жыл бұрын

This is true but also keep in mind that armor now provides more hit points than shields of the same size and tier so even AI ships will almost always have more armor than they have shields. So you'll still tend to get more value from anti-armor weapons than anti-shield.

@perrytran9504

Жыл бұрын

@@robguy8501 I definitely see more shield slots than armor when used by AI. They even throw on shield capacitors almost all the time as their aux slots.

@vgalis

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, my single player experience says that auto-cannons are broken OP compared to everything else. Then again, my ships are all significantly faster than the AI's. Maybe if I committed to not using any short range weapons and I tried kiting, I wouldn't have any and they wouldn't get to use theirs instead of the current situation where both sides shoot eachother point blank. Torpedoes are hot garbage because of their short range. The AI's will never reach my battleships, and me fielding some just means sacrificing whatever cruisers they're on.

@perrytran9504

Жыл бұрын

@@vgalis I also find torps underperform against AI, mostly because they field so many small ships to an irrational degree. FEs which have bigger ships have way too much point defense for torps to get past either.

@JoViljarHaugstulen

Жыл бұрын

​@@vgalis "Yeah, my single player experience says that auto-cannons are broken OP compared to everything else." They are also great for inflating your numbers to give you more diplo weight and making the AI more willing to become your subject and stay loyal

One way the devs could change Energy Siphon is to make them actually siphon energy and add it to your ships shields. If the ship that is siphoning is already at full shields then a nearby friendly ships shields will be refilled instead. This could combo well with a fleet build that only runs penetrating weapons like disruptors or torpedos etc. Basically becoming a vampire fleet build.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

that's actually a really cool idea

@Apple_Apporu

Жыл бұрын

It also makes it worth getting since energy siphons are pretty pointless

@MagnorCriol

Жыл бұрын

That's the way I thought it was when I started playing. I was pretty disappointed when I realized it was basically worthless.

@BravoMatthew

Жыл бұрын

Way, way back when I stared playing that's what they did based on description.

@Thetechgeek2100

Жыл бұрын

When I first started playing Stellaris back in 2018, I thought that's how these weapons worked, and thus loved to use them thinking that way. Only to find out that it was very much not the case and stopped using them promptly. I mean, like, it's literally IN THE NAME, Energy "Siphon", if maybe they added an energy cost per ship tied to the reactor, making long term battles costlier for ships with less energy surplus, but instead the energy siphon (and other possibly new weapons they could add) would negate that, allowing you to run ships with just barely positive net energy. I think that'd be a cool idea for the future, similar to how supplies/oil works in HOI4 or energy in any other space game with ships like SPAZ.

I was confused when weapons in stellaris got reworked, but after watching this video I am now even more confused than I was before.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

LMAO

You forgot to mention how powerful disrupters and nano missile cloud launchers are against fallen empires. Also I am genuinely afraid of crisis empires now. They used to be just a meh level threat before I knew the minor artifact cost was 0 for menacing ships.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

i mean crisis empires were strong before...now they're genuinely unstoppable if the galaxy doesn't work together lmao

@VORASTRA

Жыл бұрын

​@@Strategiser2 or you can help them :)

@silveredgamer6893

Жыл бұрын

​@@Strategiser2 had a devouring swarm become the crisis. Literally took the entire galaxy 20 years to stop them.

@Dreagostini

Жыл бұрын

@@VORASTRA like "I don't need to win, I just need you (all) to loose!" energy.

@VORASTRA

Жыл бұрын

@@Dreagostini when you have fallen empire with your ethic, it's not bad to help them win in war in heaven

Autocannons S Tier in psychological warfare It inflates your fleet power so much : with 15k alloys year 2230, I have 25k fleet power missiles/torpedoes, or 40k fleet power autocannons/plasma. Great for freaking out neighbors and getting free vassals.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

that is true, but their combat power is questionable lol especially when armor got significantly buffed

@topsnek1375

Жыл бұрын

​@@Strategiser2 Man, my dumbass was using autocannons just for the reason until I started getting crushed by weaker fleets and was wondering what the fuck was happening

@Bluewolf128x

Жыл бұрын

For anyone reading this later on, note that the insane fleet power inflation Autocannons gave (x3 above intended) got fixed in patch 3.8.3!

@Al-.-ex

Жыл бұрын

@@Bluewolf128x lol thanks!

A note. Silas proved that flak/pd have NO target prioritization. So if you are using my carrier design (hangar core rather than carrier, only carrier front) with 7 swarmer's and 2 strike craft per: you are almost guaranteed to negate pd damage to the missiles as each pd has to target randomly between 7 missiles and 16 strike craft. And that's only the first wave. Since they stick with the same target until it dies or leaves range, which advanced strike craft basically never will. Essentially strike craft eventually negate pd.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

WHAT, no way... so they're actually worse than i thought lmao alrighty people that see this, please put down the PD/Flaks 1 Tier BELOW what was shown in the Video...

"Thank you for coming to my ted talk on why Become the Crisis is banned"

20 minutes of listening to Spongebob talk about space weapons. A+

I wish event weapons are more useable, it feels like most issues with event weapons are the same as the previous tier list.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

yep, unfortunately they didn't get changed much or at all...

@michaelwong426

Жыл бұрын

Consider: ESC Next

@loafofbread9400

16 күн бұрын

1 day till mining drill and energy siphon will be S tier

In no other game that I’ve ever played has an ‘upgrade’ made my asset weaker. This is such a unique phenomenon to Stellaris 😂

@mattjk5299

Жыл бұрын

Abilities in classic wow are similar. Yeah you get more damage but the mana cost makes them useless because as much as devs do try, sometimes they just don't anticipate what will actually happen in a real game.

Nobody mentioning that fact that Cloud Lightning is a "space fauna" weapon so it could be buffed throu Cordyceptic Drones civic which makes it slightly better

@mr.paperbag771

Жыл бұрын

Yeah just reading the stats, I couldn't see why it would be so inferior to matter disintegrators. But then again, I haven't played Stellaris in a year, so...

I haven’t played stellaris in a bit and I figured this could help me learn the new weapon meta I feel like a scared old man, fearful of new technology

@superskrub4209

Жыл бұрын

Same, but I'm happy I can finally use something other than neutron BBs after a few years

@brettsadzewicz1760

Жыл бұрын

@@superskrub4209 I never bought into the neutron BBs... I always stood firm by Tachyon, Kinetic + Plasma BB's, Kinetic + Plasma Cruisers, Half Kinetic+plasma destroyers & Half PD+antifrig destroyers, then Full PD/dogfighting frigate screens. In perfect mathematical ratios of 2 cruisers, 4 destroyers & 8 frigs per every BB. It hasn't failed me yet (granted I haven't played in this new update yet) Edit: I will also point out that this force structure is designed to do one very specific job- Kill all shields and as many of the enemy as possible through sheer kinetic dakka before the plasmas get into range to mitigate enemy force impact - then for the destroyers & frigs (mostly frigs) to be cannon fodder while plasma dakka is added to the mix to shred the enemy. Scouting is KEY for this tactic- as starting an engagement in close range is the death of your fleet.

@OneBiasedOpinion

Жыл бұрын

Same. I kinda understand it because I learned about the damage boosts to various weapons vs different ship sizes beforehand, but it’s still intimidating. Like, Disruptors are now the pinnacle of weapon tech??? What??!

I stopped playing stellaris months ago but this is still epic content, I remember the olden days back when i could make some battleships with neutron launchers and vaporize the enemy in seconds edit: oh god the ships use actual strategy now?

@zackyputrawahyudi2759

Жыл бұрын

Yes its rock paper scisor now

@OneBiasedOpinion

Жыл бұрын

Yeah artillery death balls no longer work. They all actually obey the range requirements of their weapons and battle computers now, meaning that you have to actually plan around their movement patterns.

Note: auto cannons are great if your enemy isn’t checking your ship designs as they make your fleet power insane. This is good vs ai or against players who can’t tell your bluffing. However if you are in pvp and don’t have great encryption they can be very disappointing.

@vgalis

Жыл бұрын

They're also good against AI because the AI still uses shields. As long as you have something else to break through armor as you close to range, they're still great because of the absurd base damage and bonus hull damage.

That Frostpunk OST Hits Hard.

never expected frostpunk ost and pvz ost to be in the same video

It’s hard to compare weapons that come at different stages of the game on different slots. Especially with the computer targeting priority rework. Disruptors or swarm missiles are S tier in the sense that they have a huge window of opportunity. But they can be crushed later pretty easily. The main issue is that counters are not in the same tech tiers mainly due to flak PD being inefficient. A massive buff to PD and a lower tier proton launcher would alleviate the need of BB artillery mid game.

If only schools taught lessons and did lectures in this style, hahaha. I love this sort of content, thanks! I'll refer to this video specifically if I need to rank my available weapons in a game

Strat, unironically this is a really useful breakdown of each weapon. Have not played Stellaris in over a year and this is quite a bit different from the previous "meta" and applications for weapons are different.

Something I had just found out two days ago is that if you're a scholarium you can get the preythorion scourge strike craft from caches

Was not expecting the Frostpunk music

Thanks. Solid list, long-time player. it's still hard for me to believe that disruptors are actually good now.

Strat making a tier video. Stellaris devs: "And I took that personally."

Dont forget you can get tier four auto cannons and flak batteries from defeating the scavenger bot, if you got one near your system early game you can skip the lower tier techs and jump strait to them. The system that the scavenger bot is in also provides a small trickle of nanites as well

Glad you're Back

Really nice video, will you do one for other ship components as well?

Thanks for the video, super cool and informative! but me and my friends just play way to casually to min max all our ships. we still use psionic shields or the shield aux buffs. hell.. I often still just use rail guns and plasma.

16:22 This is unequivocally the funniest moment of the Home Alone series, thank you Strat, for including it. I love you.

Gonna do a reverse psychology and fit all my ships with shields in multiplayer

You end the video very cool... also thank for weapon tier - looking to return to game for sometime now, so gonna need to relearn how to make a good ship... again.

Glares have the same range as art so technically if you want your titans to actually use all their weapons, glares are actually pretty good. This is pretty much a choice between safer titans or more firepower.

Great vid, I love your sense of humor

My man out there quietly putting "The city must survive" as background thinking we wouldn't notice, well played

This man got a personal vendetta against Bubbles

Frostpunks OST does the work.

Thought my playlist was still playing in the background,

The thing about the void beam is that its an energy weapon anti-shield. When all energy weapons are usually anti-armour, its not really relevant till super late game but if u r spamming energy weapon repeatables it might be useful

wow amazing video 😁 thanks

Frostpunk OST "The City Must Survive" in the background?! He timed the most hyped part of the song perfectly with the SS tiered missles! Gigachad!

Goated KZreadr. I really enjoy your Video Style and Humor

I heard a while ago, that the disrupter is amazing, expect that it sucks. It does little damage even to the hull, and it's only strength comes from triggering disengagement. You end up losing more ships then the opponent even when they all are forced to disengagement. But the major counter to them is no-retreat, since you don't have the emergency ftl you'll outdps the opposing ships and end up killing almost all of them.

@magicalchicken5667

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter much that it does "small" damage, that damage bypasses armor and shields entirely, removing a big chunk of hit-points that other weapons would have to get through before hitting the hull, in addition to hull damage in the game reducing fire rate just as a cherry on top.

I'l be honest: I didn't expect to get hit with The City Must Survive.

Disruptors, Void Cloud Lightning and the Arc Emitter do scale with Energy Damage and fire speed aswell right? So eventually with enough repeatables these weapons become the strongest ones in the later stages of the rage, since Armor and Shields will also keep scaling up but hull will not.

6:58 you actually can make a battleship with 4 M slot disruptors in the middle and don't put the fighter if you didn't research it.

Could you make a video to combat computers? As i kinda dont really get when to use Artillery, line or Picket. There are also Questions like "Do all of my guns even fire if they have different range and i use the Artillery one" or "is there and impact on functionality if i use different computers in teh same fleet". Would be appreciated

After hearing you talk about the nano missile cloud i already want the sequel to stellaris in 2 minutes

Arc emitter on carrier battleships is actually quite strong. Fighters count as bypass weapons too, yk.

That's my boi!

I like how the Frostpunk OST is just being played in the background

I love how ancient macrobatteries are just straight up IoM macrobatteries.

11:24 that hold up sound effect was so unexpected that i died laughing

If you pick up the scavenger civic you can also bypass minor artifact costs on ships.

Thank you master strat, i will put this knowledge to good use

@olivewooled1297

Жыл бұрын

I will not. :)

Could you do a video for ship designs against the AI? I’m not one for multiplayer as I like making my pops happy and role playing, so AI opponents are rampant for me

@rsk-1337

Жыл бұрын

Just make disruptor corvettes they stomp everything except static defense For starbases/defense platforms just use naked carrier cruisers to take them out while your corvettes chill 1 system away Then work towards arc emitter bships to kill the FEs

I to this day wish we can get a complete rework on how weapon slots work. So maybe instead of something like a Battleship only being able to have preset slots. Have it so a battleship has "2000" room on it. A large weapon would add something like '400' Giving you another 1600 room to add stuff. But if you wanted a Battleship that carries only S-Class weapons. Then you would have something like a '160' or '200' cost instead. But something like an X weapons slot would cost '600-800' pts. Then it would change per ship type. A Titan would be able to carry a lot more. Like 4000-6000, a Juggernaut around 8000. Corvettes would have something around 800 I imagine, Destroyers 1200, Cruisers 1600. Cause I really love the idea of a fleet of ships that can have specialties. Like if you wanted, you can make a Battleship equipped with nothing but missiles. I love the idea of specializing. Since Stellaris likes to follow a lot of Sci-Fi things. I can easily see a giant behemoth with nothing but the power of missiles as an actual ship in a fleet.

I didn't know you could edit crisis ships

Is this equally relevant in singleplayer? Hilarious video, well done.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

yes, it is

@LethalOwl

Жыл бұрын

@@Strategiser2 Wonderful :D

Wait what happened to shields? Last time I checked no one was putting armor on their ships?

Okay, thumbs up just for using the Frostpunk soundtrack.

Hearing THE CITY MUST SURVIVE while strat rambles on about nano missiles hits hard

Finally a weapons guide in stellaris I can understand

Is that the Kenshi OST in the background? Oo

They clowned neutron launchers HARD

that frostpunk ost do hit different.

Now I don’t normally like videos but this one will do

Only one question: what does the Cordyceptic Drones civic do to the tier of Amoeba Flagella, Swarm Strikers, and Scourge Missiles?

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

hmmmm, hard to say probably up by 1 tier since the damage is increased so significantly

@Preaplanes

Жыл бұрын

@@Strategiser2 That's about what I was figuring. Gratzi.

When you talk about the "meta," are you referring to multiplayer, or what the AI tends to do in a single player game?

What about the strikecraft that you get from the legendary paragon admiral the bird dude ??

Hey one thing i never quite got when watching these various stellairs combat guides is: Is this meant to address human PvP play or representative of how the AI builds fleets. Like if i booted up the game now will the AI only be putting armor on their ships? Which meta is this discussing?

@JimJamTheAdmin

Жыл бұрын

I always wonder that myself. Not that it matters, I use NSC with BSB and a few balance patches so these tierlists are always useless to me anyways.

@magicalchicken5667

Жыл бұрын

It's focused on PvP, though a lot of stuff still applies. AI fleets are a lot more scattered/random and have builds that don't mesh well with each other. AI also likes shields a lot, so most of the top weapons get even better against them.

A bit late, but federation fleet and custodian fleet have no upkeep. Mercenaries are also a good way to skip on upkeep. Meaning you can field the nano-missiles on the cheap.

Man I love this tier list

my first question why ain't there point defend strike craft for carriers and bombers and fighters

This man's got a wacky voice and I love it.

The frostpunk soundtrack bruh. My heart poor giga canon. I'm not sure which weapon I prefer... I guess I'll try out swarmer missiles. I used to go heavy strike craft but swarmer missiles sounds fun. Is there anything I should not forget when using missiles? I know quantity is a quality on its own and to keep an eye out for counters.

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

always engage in long range, close range is not Missile's strong suit

Question: the crisis corvettes does not have the artillery computer, only the medium range one. When you arm them with the ancient swarm missiles, can they still kite the enemy at the max range?

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

no they cannot sadly

Amazing

whats the music name on 0:24 ?

What about the Ancient Weapon damage Ascension Perk? Makes the weapons a better tier, or its not worth it? What are the other bonuses that it says it gives overall?

@alexkatc59

Жыл бұрын

Yes.

Thanks for the video. It would be nice to see update. As I get it this means mostly for multi-player purposes. What about single? Works the same?

@Strategiser2

5 ай бұрын

yeah, basically the same thing applies for Singleplayer

Could you do a current update of this type of video? Even it was a quick video I’d still watch it

@Strategiser2

10 ай бұрын

it's still accurate not much changed

wait, missiles now only go on small slots? wherent there like a special missile slot before?

I mean the ancient web slingers do wonders when equipped on picket destroyers with 2 flak batteries

holy shit, this is the first tier list from stellaris that makes sense to me. thank you

10:50 unexpected Factorio soundtrack. Wow.

My man really using pvz theme song for the intro.

Genuinely helpful content for me, someone whose head spins at the combat rework, so thank you! Im still sad Battleships were made so comically vulnerable though I also miss my funny arc emitter disruptor spam fleets that I used to troll shieldmaxing FEs with in SP

Average damage doesn't take in account for what they are hitting so a early exotic gas find and edict run is 25% more laser damage if you have this you can run 3 lasers 1 being the Energy siphon, blue, red, or what ever you have for laser. The damage rolls are 5-16Kin So shield damage is +3-8 = 8-24 energy damage. 25% from edict 10-30. 8-21Siph with the 100% increases to shields. 8-21 + 8-21 = 16-42. +25% 20-52 per hit. Now this tier 1 kin which you will probably have 2 or 3 so you will have to break those numbers down to see when its better to go over to Kinetic. But edicts are a thing for them as well just depending on what falls on you mining lasers are also laser. So 1 edict that covers 3 weapon types.

autocannons on corvettes with afterburners, they're gonna be close range anyway, so unless they have corvettes kiting nothing can get away

Oh boi, another video about neutron launcher

speaking of archeoengineer. is it an ap from the first contact dlc ? because I've never seen it appear in any of my games

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

it's from the Ancient Relics DLC

@isuckatusernames4297

Жыл бұрын

@@Strategiser2 damn, guess I somehow keep on missing it.

I did mining laser corvettes and they did a pretty good job chewing up the scourge, not optimized but not half bad either

I've read somewhere on reddit that hardening parts for shields and armor are broken and don't work. Is that true ?

I will still never even research disruptors and nobody can stop me!! But seriously, swarmer missiles FTW!! Also can’t help but see all the meta jokes to the old weapons tier list that came out way too late

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

that's what 1 month of production time does to you... slow descent into insanity

*Shakes Head* *Sigh* "We don't want everyone to use Battleship Fleets with Neutron Launchers at the end of the game. So we're going to redesign combat by making Neutron Launchers to be the same as Torpedoes and we're going to take the Torpedo Boat and make it its own class of ships, Frigates! To make sure that Battleships are easily countered, Torpedoes will do scaling damage verses the size of the target, larger the target, more damage they take!" This is what happens folks when the only thing upgrading weapons technology does is increase damage. This is also what happens when you want your early game fleets to be exactly like your end game fleets. They introduced Torpedo Boats, Frigates which only had torpedoes, to force the players to play the game _as_ the designers intended the players to play the game, instead of realizing that the balance of the game was hard coded to be broken as the way they designed combat was counter to their design goals. Why did the players prefer Neutron Launcher/Kinetic Artillery battleship fleets? Because the high alpha damage and range of "Artillery" weapons. While the reload speed is low, researching enough reload speed boosting technology makes such slow to reload/charge weapons economical. But, the technology tree favours Energy weapons usage because Physics research is limited to 5 options, and one of those options can only be researched 5 times, thus the option to increase Damage and Reload Speed will _always_ be available to be researched for Neutron Launchers. While the Material Tech Tree covers, Armour, Ballistic Weapons (reload and damage), Defence platforms (armour and damage), Missiles (reload and damage), planetary building speed (can only be researched 5 times)... The other effect of this results in Tychon weapons being so powerful, as their damage increases, their recharge rate is improved... and they can blast All they had to do was... make missiles so much more effective by increasing their range as you upgrade them, _and_ increase their acceleration as you also learn new drive system. It makes zero sense to have your Marauder Missiles to have the same range and have the same speed as your Fission Missiles... while your fighters on the other hand have their speed increased as they improve. At the start of the game, Nuclear Missiles are unchanged... but at the end of the game, with all technology researched, Marauder Missiles are 10x faster, and have 3x the range. Multiple salvos of Missiles will reach the enemy well before fighters are even able to arrive. The other issue is... why do ballistic weapons have their projectiles arrive at the same time as Lasers? Lasers travel at light speed... ballistic weapons _can't,_ especially during the early years, as kinetic weapons are bound by E=MC^2 limitations... the energy required to have their projectiles travel at relativistic speeds exceeds their power plant's energy out put. Thus... at some point, ballistic/Kinetic Energy Weapons will become obsolete. Paradox Interactive Arctic should just accept this... that Kinetic Weapons and Fighters will become obsolete as they can no longer do the task that are required of them. I can go into more detail, but I'm not going to waste my time on that here, until a person requests my balance rework, lol.

What tier are the nanite weapons? (Tier 4 autocannons and flak) They also have no nanite cost if crisis

@Strategiser2

Жыл бұрын

they're roughly the same as "counter-measure" weapons only COUNTER weapons instead of dealing damage or forcing the enemy to adapt, it's just there to reduce the damage YOU RECEIVE instead

I dont think that strikecrafts engage enemy strikecrafts... Well, except scouts since they still have figter role (or something similar) in their code which in theory should make them prioritize other crafts over capital ships

In one of my game i switched all my weapons on my fleets to Archo cannon,,,, i did not see that they missed 50%, now i get why i lost most of my fleets

Nanite autocannons on corvette swarm just slap.