Degradation tests are one of the most interesting tests you perform, all thumbs up.

This is great, Bjorn. I think doing these tests on older cars is really important and you are doing a valuable service here. The 2nd hand EV market needs the transparency this information provides. Looking forward to the next in the series. Pleased to be sponsoring you, just fade out that darned music after the intro! 😁

@GavinScrimgeour

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree

@voxmobius

7 күн бұрын

I’d also like more analysis on what causes the degradation. You give a cpl of possibilities. Perhaps you can design tests that help identify which ones produce the most degregation. I know you are smart enuf to do so 😉

Love the new series Bjorn and the up dated spreadsheet.

Would love to see some degradation tests on the older 22kWh Zoe’s!

I really, really like your channel and one of the reasons why is that you don't use background music while you speak 😉

our e-Golf 35kWh after 155.000km still gives 220-250km range ... battery holing exceptionally well

This is very, very useful. Thank you for taking the time to perform tests like this one. Currently looking at a second hand EV for someone and an e-Golf and e-UP! are possible contenders.

Interesting! We have a eGolf 2016 with 142km. It seems like usable battery is about 17kWh. We drove it 96km using about 90% battery at 160Wh/km.

This is becoming my favorite series on the channel. Thank you so much for efforts! Can't wait for upcoming tests.

Super interesting results once again, and the coming tests looks to be so as well. Well done.

Thank you for doing all these range tests. You provide all the relevant information what can help buyers on the second hand EV market.

Great video! Especially the displayed data during the drive are interesting facts. Go on with your tests👍

This is quality information! We thank you for providing this content to us!

Valuable data uncle Bjorn. Keep them coming

Really appreciate these tests. 👍👍

Awesome review. The test list for degradation is impressiv. Waiting for those videos.

old car test are very informative thanks!

Hey Bjørn, very nice video as always! Just a tip for the Kia Soul, many people in the Facebook forums states that the chemistry between the 27 and 30 versions are different meaning that the 30kWh version will not degrade that much. Would be interesting for the first gen electric Kia Soul owners :) Cheers to you!

Great tests!

The (copy) sensor probably shows energy consumption of the electric motor, was around 0 when charging. And Car Scanner works even in Ampera-E. Thanks for the video!

Funny how charging cycles x100 *exactly* match to the odometer values at all three e-Golf 🤓🎯

the color is amazing

Degradation weeks at Bjørn ❤

Thanks for another great video on battery degradation. Could you include battery chemistry as a variable in your degradation spreadsheet?

oh oh, can't for the Ioniq!! Great vid :)

19% degradation sounds like a lot for me ... For a 7 year old car I'd rather expect 10%. Great test anyway!

This is a really great test and very informative on the long term durability of EVs and brand variations. I did have one question though in your tabulation, you show ~1600 cycles for this e-golf. Is that full charge cycles or does it count a partial charge as a cycle (eg a charge from 50% to 100%)?

The finish of the Golf is impressive compared to the ID.3! Korean cars? Ioniq for the win (again!)

@cheribibi112

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes

Very nice content! Big questions how these electric cars will age and how usable they will be used.

You had me at e-Golf.🥰

I have 130,000mi (209,000km) on my '15 egolf and still drive it to and from work 130mi (209km) round trip. It's still rollin' lol.

Yeaah ioniq 28 will be very interesting. Seems to be a really good option in used market

The low battery level just overrides any scheduled charge set, so you get this minimum level when you plug in, rather than wait til the timed charge period. Your Mac charge was at 16A too, should be Max instead. Great video 😁👍👍👍

Hi Björn, great video as usual. Do you think you might do some range tests on vans one day? I would love to get an EV van and convert it to a camper to replace my vw t5 but I think the range on most ev vans is pretty poor. Is the e transit available get in Norway? Maybe that will the one that changes things

I will be waiting your degradation test for VW ID4 vs Kia EV6 in seven years. Will be very interesting

I love these tests, also puts into perspective the ice vs ev market at this particular point in time in the used market at least were I live in America. I saw a couple of these locally with slightly less mileage going for around $17k plus dollars. I don't know who in their right mind would purchase at that price.

@hadtopicausername

2 жыл бұрын

The used car market in at least certain parts of the US has gone rather bananas lately, though, hasn't it?

Good news as we are planning to keep our e-golf a very long time.

FYI, the Ford Focus electric has very low degradation as the battery pack is liquid cooled/heated with a small temperature range allowed, 10C - 35C only. It does active cooling while CCS charging.

Would be nice to know how much degradation Hyundai Ioniq Classic has by now.

I would also like to see newer cars with high milage and battery with good BMS. Ampera-e, e-Niro, Kona,,,,,.

My 2017 ioniq have 235 000km and turtle mode come quicker than one would think,small battery tend to do that

Without going through all that, my 2016 seems to still have close to original capacity still as well.

I believe it would be interesting to see how much a refurbished battery or a new one is. And maybe the process of replacing it. This would give us a real feel of how much an old EV costs.

Hi Bjørn, You are doing a very good job. I own 2016 E-golf with 130000 km and I have no Idea what is the heath of its battery. Can I ask you to share a backup of parameters for a Car Scanner tool for E-golf. Unfortunately the default profile "e-golf" doesn't show the numbers you have on the screen. thanks.

Heh, you took Kris' charger :)) BMS is cautious: 4.06v static is rather 90% for most of the cells, 3.42v under load (10% soc reported) is not low at all, more like 15-20%, at it makes sense for such a tiny pack.

could you do a range test on one of the OG e-golfs

My wife has 2020 eGolf with 113,000km on the clock. This version has a bigger battery. We have no plans on getting rid of it anytime soon but it would be interesting to understand the degradation over the shorter period vs your 7-year-old 160K one.

Well apart from the new Tesla M3 RWD (60kWh and an excellent car), we have a 2013 Nissan LEAF (gen 1.5) which my wife uses around town and, even though its only got 65,000kms on the clock, LEAF Spy is telling us the battery has degraded 32%. We have had it for the last 3.5 years, nearly always charge to 80% and rarely fast charge it (almost always charged at home). So for earlier LEAFs time is definitely a very significant factor in degradation. Have not done a full charge / discharge test yet - will be interesting to see how that stacks up with LEAF spy stats.

Cool stuff, I am guessing that the Amphera E will be an original battery car. Not sure it matters much since they are all supposed to get new batteries under warranty which should be well ahead of any significant degradation. Still curious what the result will be.

Sehr für alle e-Golf Besitzer.👍 Wie sieht es da beim E-up aus , der wurde noch häufiger verkauft als der Golf.

1/ which ODBCII are you using? And, how did you get your phone to display each of those values? 2/ my 2015 (USA) e-Golf does not have that button to launch the management screen you displayed. What is the software upgrade that adds that screen? Can it fit on an SD-card? 3/ have you tried the same test driving at Eco+ mode? When I am in question whether I will make a distance, I drive my e-Golf in Eco+ instead of Eco or Normal modes

At 15:28 : not normal at all, than some cells are at 3,94V and some are at 4,02v. 1st solution : try to balancing cells. 2st solution if first solution failed : change bad cells.... If there is no bad cells : an enormous part of the loss of range comes from this imbalanced state before proper balancing, than from the degradation itself.

@sargfowler9603

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if cell balancing/replacement modules will become a thing in the near future?

@sargfowler9603

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasruenes1853 80mV?

@thomasruenes1853

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, I missed one decimal🙈 I made my comment to quickly, accidently read it as 8mV🤪 Then I totally agree with you👍

@JPetr94

2 жыл бұрын

80mV is ok for 125A load, it has nothing to do with balancing

@etienned2354

2 жыл бұрын

@@JPetr94 In the video we dont see mV between cells without load, so you could'nt say that the pb is not a bad balancing The only thing for sure : you cant say there is no pb. There is pb of : bad balancing only, or bad cells only, or bad balancing and bad cells.

From one POV, despite the faster degradation the Kia may have been the better choice here if it was price competitive with Golf since it started out with a larger battery. I'm not sure if the same reasoning applies with EVs that have 60 - 80 kWh packs, but my LEAF has about 16 kWh usable, and another 2 kWh or so would be most welcome. In retrospect, the 30 kWh LEAF would have been a better choice than the 24 kWh I bought.

What does "Maximum energy content of the traction battery" really indicate? My 2016 e-Golf with 55,539 miles is showing 17550 Wh for that metric.

I would be very interested if you can mesure degradation for multiple model 3, first owners from march 2019 must have over 100 000km. Looks like some owners have a lot more degradation than others on forum, not sure why tbh.

I hope that Ioniq's degrade slower than soul. If so, it crushes competition (efficiency, charging speed).

I would prefer no music in the background during speech explanations.

Hi. Really enjoy your content. I am in the process of purchasing my first EV. I am interested how much does bicycle rack with two bicycles on a roof of a car affect driving range. Maybe you are interested in doing test like that?

What app is that?

What's with the background music? Find it very distracting :-/

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Is this the first time you're on KZread?

@heiko261

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjornnyland of course and watching all your videos. I don't thin other KZreadrs are a good example since you are way more professional and systematical with all the tests and the data you gather. Also I didn't mean to offend. German brevity

@dellyet

2 жыл бұрын

Agree just want to hear Bjorns voice 😁

Love my egolf. Superior to ID3 in every way except range

@dragospahontu

2 жыл бұрын

Id3 drives better

@Zimpaz

2 жыл бұрын

@@dragospahontu disagree I’ve driven both. ID3 faster sure but it’s cheap plastic interior makes it a far less comfortable drive

@dragospahontu

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zimpaz you don't sit on the plastic, you sit in the seat lol. The quality is pretty bad, but the driving characteristics are for sure better on Id3.

Hi Bjorn. Another great video. Can you Tell me what app and obd are you using to read the internal data of battery state? I have a EGolf and i wan to know these info. Thanks for your great work ;).

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Car Scanner

@nacholeon8392

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjornnyland App instaled and working 👏 (more or less 😅). Thanks again.

we really need a sw that calculate the SOH

is it possible to replace the battery with a bigger new battery ....that will be a cool video if someone is offering that

I have a 60k mile /100k km 2017 Soul 30kwh. I'll see what I can calculate and let you know.

What a App at the Smartphone ? I was search dir This one

Is there any differences in kWh that goes into battery on fast charging versus slow AC charging. I think maybe there is some losses with these "smaller" batteries... Maybe do a video to compare?

@stephenkchan908

2 жыл бұрын

There are loses of about 15% for AC charging. DC and L2 charging have loses of about 5%. The loses are from the wiring and electronics that converts energy to heat. To get an idea of the energy involved, a small electric heater can put out about 1kW. A 50kW DC charge would be equivalent to the energy use of 50 small heaters. 5% of 50kW is 2.5kW of heat that is generated while charging.

You should have enough information now about degradation in e-golfs and souls to predict when the usable kwh capacity of a soul will become smaller than the equivallent golf. That is, at what mileage does the 24kwh golf starts to have better range than the 27kwh soul.

This looks like an sel version of e golf. If so, it would have had the heat pump unit for the ev battery. Greetings from the states!

I have old ioniq 28 kWh with 65 tys km :)

If you had to choose ONE car to buy for 250.000 NOK. Which one?

What app are you using to monitor the parameters?

@CutterSlade001

2 жыл бұрын

It's in the description.

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Car Scanner

_Buuuut,_ the 2015 thru 2018 Kia Soul EV (at least in America) has a much better warranty on the battery and EV components. Ten years on all the EV components, including the traction battery* and this applies to not only the original owner but to subsequent owners as well. After 2018 Kia/Hyundai modified the warranty so that it is a lifetime warranty on the battery, but A) only to the original owner and B) only for a battery "failure", not degradation (as far as I know). If you're in the market for a used EV, a Soul EV between 2015 and 2018 is something to consider because of that excellent warranty. * If SOH drops below 70% within the 10 years since it was put into service they will replace the battery.

Hei Bjørn! Hvis du er på Sørlandet, må du gjerne teste min e-Golf. 2015, 185k kilometer:)

Pretty impressive for a passively cooled car. Do you have plans to test the eGolf with the bigger ~35kwh battery?

does a degraded battery still take the same amount of kw to charge? or does it take less energy to charge ? Since the battery capacity is lower?

@bjornnyland

Жыл бұрын

kW or kWh?

@helsonly722

Жыл бұрын

kWh. So let say battery capacity is 100kWh new. battery degraded 20%. Will it need 100kWh to charge and only get 80% capacity? Or will it now only take 80kWh to charge a degraded battery?

@bjornnyland

Жыл бұрын

80 kWh

Nissan leaf 24kwh or e-Golf 24kwh Which one is better?

@bjornnyland

Жыл бұрын

*kWh

Are 'old' KIAs and IONIQs using different batteries providers? I think IONIQ holds pretty good the degradation.

@cheribibi112

2 жыл бұрын

On a previous video he replied me the batteries are differents when i said i thoughts it was the same for e soul 27 and ioniq 28

Is your spreadsheet available for viewing?

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

@krazymuthafuka

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjornnyland thanks I found it in the link. I thought earlier deration tracking was seperate but have found it. Keep up the good work!

Noob question, what is this GUM word that Bjorn refers tto stands for?

@kenl78

2 жыл бұрын

@@kristoffergo6973 cheers, thanks for that.

No one with an e-tron 55 with high mileage and fast charging? 🙂

Lower charge limit is for preheating the car without being plugged into a charger, you can then determine how low the state of charge can go before it switch off.. So setting it to a 30% means that you have 30% left soc as a lower limit. Setting it to 90% means the preheating only can use 10% of the battery, before it stops.. Setting charge limit is dione, click on car e manager, then charge location, then click on the desired charge location and then click on the power cable on the far right. Then you get a charge limit bar, where you can set 10%incremnts

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Are you sure about that? The info I provided in the video was from the user manual.

@Pervypriest

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjornnyland yes, I have an E golf 2015 model. I could not get the lower charge limit to work, no matter how I adjusted it.. Then I looked for the info on KZread, I post the link when I find it..

Great video but please lose the tacky background music! Thanks...

Lmao

Battery degradation is a rich and interesting vein. Old can be gold, or fools gold. Thanks! Please, don't use background music over your comments. I friggin hate it! If I want lift music I'll stand in a lift. What you have to say is either useful or amusing, or both. Don't hide it behind the muzak. You are better than that! Tell him, Maya...

If you want to test VW ID3 09/20 with 50K, you can borrow mine:-)

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Where do you live?

@torf7329

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjornnyland Bergen

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

That's too far away. But thanks anyway.

nice music in the back !

Forstår at du ønsker å variere videoene, men........ bakgrunnsmusikken i starten... please, av.

first