WATCH with Mike chronographs my learning journey into the world of watch repair and horology, the art of watchmaking. I'll be sharing everything from basic quartz watch maintenance to tearing down, cleaning, diagnostics and restoring of vintage mechanical watches. I look forward to having you join me on my journey so we can learn together!
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Waltham and co are à testament of american watchmaking . From a time america was one of the best out there.
nice one mike the old pocket watches can be tricky !!! that power release scared me loli did watch it and i also watch up and downloading bars from windows... mike i think you got a world record here !
Way to go, Mike! For the available technology back then, pocket watches truly are amazing.
I hope you will restore it to its old glory!
It’s possessed!!!
One Century worth of potential energy created by a person long dead and forgotten. Crazy to think about it. I sometimes think that the right things find the right people. This watch was meant to be bought by you! This is one heck of a mainspring! Have a great weekend Mike!
Where did you find the colour-correcting gels?
Here: amzn.to/3Snme0G
@@WatchWithMike Found them, thank you. I have found the ultrasonic cleaner, and the dryer, but for all my looking, couldn't find the little glass jars and lids! DO keep up the videos.
and the arts holders to fit in the jars . . .
Thanks Mike, i really enjoyed your video and comments from others❤😂👍🏼👍🏿
Thanks Michael! I really enjoyed the comments especially - thanks everyone! 😁
Mike, you can still use those Mosely collets in your lathe. All you need to do is cut a sleeve that’s about 3mm in length, the same outside diameter as the sleeve that your draw bar fits in, and also has an inside hole the same diameter that your draw bar will fit into. Put it on your draw bar between the bar and the lathe lengthening the space between the 2 and allowing you to tension the Mosely collets. You only need to make one and keep it in your collet box, that way you,ll be able to use everything you’ve bought on that auction. Good luck, and keep up the informative videos.
Thanks Paul! I consider doing that, but ended up returning the set because I would like to have a more complete selection that is all the same brand. Now the trick will be finding a set in a price range that I do not have to take out a second mortgage!
Dear Mike, thank you for a very interesting video. First thing first, what I see here is that the balance tack is missing.
This movement was perfect to tear apart… Thanks for watching!
Stumps, stomps, stimps, stamps, something tells me youre a 60s baby lol
😂nailed it! Where did you get stimps? 👀
thinking about to start servicing my watches as well, so this is a good insight how to start, Thanks a lot for the nice video !
You're welcome, and I wish you fun and success in your watchmaking journey!
Subbed the moment I saw you handwind the barrell
That's great! 😁
The chrome plating can't be coming off the case. It says clearly on the back "All Stainless Steel".
I agree with you… But something tells me the back of this watch may have been swapped out. It's been some time since I have worked on this watch, but I will go back and take another look at it to see if you are right! Thanks! 😁
@WatchWithMike Yes, if that is the case, I can see your point! However, after you cleaned it up, I didn't see any case degradation. Regardless....AWESOME JOB!!
@@chronoboat11 👍
The more honest video i see.
Thanks!
Perfect video
Glad you enjoyed it! 😁
I think European collets are called B4. If you get a tap of that size you can make a drawbar for them on a larger lathe.
Thanks! It's coincidental that you should suggest that… I just got another slightly larger lathe to see if I could make tools for the watchmaking lathe.
The collet marked SA stands for Schaublin a Swiss high end machine manufacturer. Very nice and interesting video! 😊
Thank you! 😁
Good info,Mike and good luck.Thank you.
Thanks Angel, more adventures to come! 😁
Appreciate all the information and best of luck finding all the collets for your lathe. Ill be on the lookout for ya. Thanks for all your time and effort Mike 🍻
Thanks, I appreciate you following me on my journey! 😁
Yeah its a bit of a learning curve and a gamble. You have to figure out if this is for you and worth investing in or is it okay to build it bit by bit. You could also try a steady for that Jacobs chuck. They slide onto the bed and typically have high speed bearings for the material to run on to help stabilize your work. All the best my friend!
Good point! 😁
Thats always the problem with perches kind of blind. Good that you got a refund. Its a hassle though anyway.
Agreed! The seller was very gracious, and we posted the item with a better description.
Hi Mike, great to see your latest video. If you’re plan to pursue learning lathe work using a watchmaker’s lathe, then the choice between the lathe you started with and something closer to a full set is a no-brainer. The cost of the lathe bed, headstock, tailstock and toolrest pales almost into insignificance vs the cost of a good set of collets and accessories. Look up the cost of the used accessories bought individually and a set of collets (plus wax collets, stepped collets etc) and you’ll find that even a set that costs several thousand dollars is cheaper than buying the same items piecemeal. You also get the advantage of a set that was made to work together, with everything in alignment. A visual check of runout and other critical tolerances is nowhere close to adequate. A watchmaker’s lathe can appear to run dead true to the naked eye, but be completely unfit for any precision work. A frankenlathe is unlikely to be worth building into a full set for this reason. If you do decide to keep and build upon the lathe you have now, get a decent dial indicator and carefully check your alignment and runout. It’s impossible to tell any other way, that said I think I occasionally glimpse what look like red flags when you use the lathe suggesting it’s not running true. If you can afford it, take the plunge and get the best full set you can afford. These things hold value and you can always sell it if you decide to stop lathe work. Regarding collets, you really need a full run by one manufacturer. WW collets are not a brand (yes it stood for Webster Whitcomb but refers to a standard pattern of lathe now) and not even all WW collets are interchangeable amongst WW type lathes! There are charts showing the threads and other measurements of various brands of WW collets to help guide in selecting which will work in what lathes. Another reason to get a full run by one maker is one brand’s #5 collet is another brand’s number #6 etc. To properly cover the range of sizes you can’t jump between brands. There are also some collets to avoid even if they fit your lathe. You want fully hard collets and they are the most expensive. Boley, Lorch, Leinen and Wolf Jahn are some examples of good hard collets. Starrett collets are soft and should be avoided, unless they are very cheap. I’ve seen a lot of people try to get into watchmakers lathe work with a very bare bones setup, planning to add to it. The ones who stuck with it all eventually started afresh with something close to a full set and wished they’d done so from the beginning. A mismatched headstock, bed, tailstock and toolrest with a handful of collets is unfortunately a money pit and often intrinsically flawed. I hate to sound so negative, but this are the facts as I see them. I would’ve fallen into the same hole if I hadn’t had this advice from other people.
Thanks again for all of your solid advice! 😀 A complete set up maybe in my future for all of the reasons you just mentioned!
@@WatchWithMike You’re welcome. Take some time to find a set in good condition that has a full run of collets and all the accessories you anticipate using and you’ll never regret it. It will be far cheaper than building up from what you have now and everything will be compatible with no nasty surprises. I’d recommend an 8mm WW style Boley, Boley-Leinen, Levin, Lorch or Wolf Jahn. There are certainly other great brands, but these are the ones I feel very safe in recommending. The lathe you have now isn’t a loss. I wouldn’t sell it, either. You can keep it and use it for all manner of jobs you’d rather not/shouldn’t do on your main lathe that don’t require precision tolerances. This includes work with abrasive compounds like polishing and sharpening. You must protect especially the bed and bearings of your ‘good’ lathe from abrasives and anything else that might cause damage. Having a second lathe to which you can mount grinding and polishing wheels and use in conjunction with other abrasives without taking the time consuming steps needed to protect your ‘good’ lathe will save you a lot of time. It also means you save time by being able to leave the ‘good’ lathe set up for whatever precision work you are doing at the time. If space permits, all abrasive and polishing type work should be kept away from precision machining, and a second lathe also helps with this.
@@WatchWithMike I neglected to mention above to be careful if buying Andra & Zwingenberger / Prezima / Präzima (hereafter A&Z) lathes unless they are complete with everything you need or determining that the one you’re looking at is a rebadged Boley. The Andra & Zwingenberger WW lathes actually deviate from other WW lathes in important ways that mean only other A&Z parts are useable. A really complete set with all you could wish for could be a dream lathe (with a new motor, they used some poor motors but it’s easy to upgrade to a good one) but don’t buy one with plans to add to the accessories later.
@@mercuriall2810 Good advice, thanks!
@@mercuriall2810 Hee hee, you've got me figured out - I never get rid of old tools. There's always something else you can do with them.
🤘🤘
😁
Hi, Mike Sorry to see you're having so many problems trying to get your lathe setup, we never make mistakes we only learn lessons, but sometimes those lessons can be expensive. I've just bought a 130-piece staking set from China for maybe double the price I could have got from eBay but at least I know it's complete and not damaged in any way and I'm sure it will be good enough for my infrequent use as a hobbyist. I've found that fixing watches also makes you become a tool junky 😂
Yes, I'm hooked on the hobby! 😁
contact Dave hes got all the collets youll need.
heey mike you are going down the rabbit hole called lathe!!!! i am here for mental suport! little tip next time use hammer . a lot are Moseley death lol
Hey Elder! Thanks for the mental support! A little watchmaking rabbit hole behavioral therapy is appreciated!
@@WatchWithMike A little watchmaking rabbit hole behavioral therapy wauw i am gone write this one down !!
Great video for anyone in the market for watchmaker's lathe collets! Thanks for making this, Mike! (BTW, that SA logo is for Schaublin!)
@IShootWatches - Thanks Dayton! I appreciate your and others' suggestions that some of these collets COULD be used with a spacer on the drawbar, or different length and threaded drawbars entirely. But I'd rather the collets naturally fit the lathe. This collet set is back on eBay if anyone's interested.
lol
Ahh, Schaublin! Do you think they will ask me for the rights to use my version of the logo in their rebranding campaign?
@@WatchWithMike they do need to rebrand because it’s actually SV for Schaublin Villenueve, not SA. But I’m not sure your rendition will do it for them! I think you’re both safe from law suits for the time being!😂
This "great " watch winds only one direction of the rotor .
Very true!
Hi Mike, JD has spent significant time and expense mastering liquid shellac so I figured I’d share his video with you so you can see how he goes about creating his version of a liquid shellac. kzread.info/dash/bejne/q3x5x7hmc83Apbg.htmlfeature=shared
Thanks Mike
Thanks for watching!😀
Wow! That tool for heating the roller table is very cool! Amazing how fast it transmitted > 165 degrees! That's one tool I didn't know existed! The iPhone IR camera attachment also kind of blew my mind! How the hell does that work!?
See, there is always one more new tool to learn and buy! The heat camera plugs into the lightning port on the iPhone, and has its own lens and sensor. It has a proprietary app that lets you do video or pictures. It's magic! That's all I know. 😎
@@WatchWithMike Oh, nice! I thought it was somehow using the iPhone's camera and processing it differently. A separate little camera in the dongle makes more sense!
I wonder what guy thought... Okay lets dry out cockroaches and other insects and use them as glue...😅Nice set of collets you got there! You could make a spacer or bush for them on your new fancy lathe! Interesting results you got there. Looking forward to your continued efforts in this!
I ended up sending back the collets, but I hear what you're saying about making a spacer… That definitely would've been an option! If I only knew that you could make shellac from bugs earlier in life... well I suppose it's never too late to learn! Hey did you know you can make glue from boiling fish? 🤣
@@WatchWithMike Thats too bad but its better that you get the right equipment! Yeah its weird haha! Fish you say. Imagine the poor guy boiling the fish for the glue... 🤢
@@johanvandersandt8904 😂
You dont need to use the heat for liquid shellac if your going to use heat you only need shellac then you dont have the boil off of solvent denatured alcohol has provided me with best results for liquid shellac
I'm going to try to whip up a batch using denatured alcohol. I'm still determined to speed up the drying process using heat, but maybe I don't need as much heat, lol!
@@WatchWithMike You can use heat after its cured for a bit. once alcohol evaporates. Denatured alcohol evaporates more rapidly than IPA.
@@sonnymoorehouse1941 👍🏻
Mike. Thank you for this selection of videos. Really interesting. Makes me realise why, at this time of my apprenticeship, I cannot attempt shellac. Ah well. I am however thinking of purchasing get a cheap Chinese 9 in 1 lathe and attempt to do a number of DIY fixes. Cost and space is a great factor to me. Great fun this hobby. Thank you.
Hi Ross, thanks for checking in! Cost and space are always a factor! This is my first time playing with shellac, and I look forward to many more experiments. I don't know how shellac fits into an apprentice agenda, but you could always do experimenting on the side… Nothing wrong with figuring out your own methods in addition to knowing the traditional ways. As long as you are having fun!
Perfectly clear,Mike.Thank you.
Hi Angel, thank you for watching! 😁
It too am a tool collector who does a little watchmaking on the side. Lovely work on the video, cheers!
Well thank you, and reciprocal compliments back to you! From the land of truck nuts… 🤣
Hi, Mike! Thanks for another great video! I often have to adjust the pallet jewels, and this is avery simple way to work with shellac: I put the pallet fork on a metal base and use the preheated soldering iron or a wood burning pen ( I like it even more). I do not touch the shellac or the fork, just keeping the iron a couple of mm away from the part. It is enough to get the shellac to melt, and then it's possible to align everything that you need.
Wait, so you are melting the shellac by passing heat through the air? Or are you touching the heat to the metal base?
@@WatchWithMike Absolutely right, the heat is passed through the air. As far as I know, it starts melting at around 70 degrees Centigrade
@@kirillslov I thought about experimenting with my small heat gun, but then I pictured my parts selling across the room…
@@WatchWithMike I sometimes use a soldering heat gun for the same purpose. At a minimum air flow it isn't a bad idea at all. It's fully functional :))
@@kirillslov good to know! I really felt that the alcohol lamp was too hot. Plus the overhead lights and microphone in my studio weren't very happy about having an open flame under them!
interesting
Hi RB, I had fun with this one! Thanks for watching! 😁
Outside of a production environment where new movements are built, or when making a new balance wheel from scratch, those Ruby jaw static poising tools are largely ornamental. There is no need to statically poise a balance after replacing a roller jewel, and it would be a mistake to do so in general. Poise will be maintained as long as you take note of the orientation of the roller jewel on the balance before removing the roller table. If you didn’t do this, it’s a simple matter of repositioning the roller table turned through 180 degrees if it’s obviously causing a poise imbalance. The reason it’s wrong to statically poise after reinstalling the roller jewel is that you won’t significantly affect the poise in doing so (the tiny mass of the shellac being so close to the wheel centre), and you’ll be ruining all the precision positional adjustment the watch had originally. Any precision watch adjusted to keep time over positions left the factory having been dynamically poised, ie it is by definition out of static poise. Static poise is a great starting point when building a new balance, to set you up to dynamically poise afterwards. This watch you’re working on is perhaps a special case. I suspect the loss of metal to rusting will have ruined the poise of the balance wheel. Any dynamic poise will be lost, so the best starting point for getting the watch to keep time well is to statically poise the balance wheel. The hairspring seems to have avoided any rust damage from what I could see in the video. If this is the case you are very fortunate. The slightest rust damage to a hairspring dramatically impacts timekeeping and rusted hairsprings (even a few tiny pits of rust) are ruined - they will keep the watch ticking but forget about timekeeping.
I’ve found static poising worth a look after replacing a balance staff
Thanks, these are all points well taken! The hairspring looked like it had rust on it, but I think it was just surface dirt from the arms of the balance. At the very least I will have a baseline to see how much the impulse jewel and shellac affect poise. I agree, being near the center lessens the effect. As far as the tool being ornamental, I could stop right there and be happy! And it comes in a cool wooden box! 🤣
@@GWServices If you remove the original staff cleanly and without distorting the balance wheel, this shouldn’t ever be necessary. You might see loss of poise after restaffing but it’s due to distorting the balance wheel arms and/or rim during the staff removal/staff riveting process. You’re much better off trueing the balance in the round and flat such that it’s perfect under at least 20x magnification. If you still see a gross poise error (by looking at timing in positions), you’ve likely put the roller table on 180 degrees out of position. The balance wheel left the factory dynamically poised to keep good time in positions. How can it have gained or lost weight since (vandals with screw undercutters and the like notwithstanding)? Thus restaffing with good technique shouldn’t necessitate static poising. Henry Fried condemned countless watches to be statically poised for no good reason when restaffing. Countless watches are compromised as a result. This is why it’s so difficult to find an American Railway standard watch with a good oscillator (=unmolested balance with good Q factor). The authoritative authors, like Professor Hans Jendritzki and Simonin rightly stress that static poising is for making new balances to get to a point where they can be poised dynamically and has no place when restaffing.
@@WatchWithMike Those poising tools are beautiful. I’ve kept mine and like it a lot although I’m unlikely to need it unless I reach the point of building a movement from scratch myself. I know so many watchmakers who bought one early in their training, thinking it was essential but have all sold theirs once they realised they won’t use them. This includes one of the best watchmakers I know of.
@@WatchWithMike I’ve kept my poising tool because I like it and I agree it looks great. I know a lot of watchmakers who bought one early on, thinking it would be essential, only to learn they’d never use it and so they sold it. This includes one of the best watchmakers I know of. He warned the guy who bought it from him that it should be kept as a display piece only 😂 The balance was originally poised with the roller jewel and some shellac. A slight addition or decrease to the amount of shellac used won’t affect poise. Not even the bibles of precision watch adjustment suggest poising after reinstalling or replacing a roller jewel. On the use of the tool, it can’t hurt to know the nuances of how to use it properly if you want to experiment with it. Whether poising is necessary or not, experimenting is a great way to learn. The level bubble is removable on the better tools. The levelling is so important that checking it where the bubble on your tool is isn’t adequate. On the tools where the level lifts out, you place it atop the Ruby jaws to ensure the jaws themselves are level. If your level bubble lifts out, use it on the jaws. If not, you can buy round level bubbles like this cheaply. Once you’ve levelled the tool, you need a clear cover for it to block air currents. Your breathing and drafts in the room will interfere. A single bristle brush, or cat whisker is great to gently roll the wheel once it is on the jaws. Lastly, be sure the balance wheel and the tool aren’t magnetised. I’ve known people to chase a poise issue endlessly until they realised that magnetism was causing the wheel to misbehave on the jaws.
Hi Mike, liquid shellac is a perfectly valid way to secure roller or pallet jewels, it is usually used without heat. Syrupy thick liquid shellac is used to secure the jewel in the roller table and then the alcohol is allowed to evaporate. Methanol and denatured ethanol evaporate faster than isopropyl alcohol, which might take a up to day or so. Once the jewel is set in place and the shellac is dry, any adjustments can be done by heating the roller table in the tool you demonstrated to soften the shellac and moving the jewel. Hot shellac work, where liquid shellac isn’t used, is performed by drawing threads of shellac and using them similarly to solder onto the preheated roller table.
That all makes great sense! I haven't checked my rubbery shellac on the washer in about a day… I hope it firmed up! I'm going to do another batch using denatured alcohol and see if it evaporates quicker. I am also going to try what you suggest and pull some threads of shellac to use like solder. That's the perfect metaphor!
@@WatchWithMike Denatured is much more 'powerful' on the shellac. What you did prove is that quick washes in IPA are fine on shellacked parts.
@@GWServices Exactly! The shellac was in no hurry to melt in the IPA...but did eventually. Good point!
@@WatchWithMike Shellac, being insect excrement, can vary in composition from batch to batch. It is true that isopropyl alcohol dissolves it slower than denatured alcohol (ethanol), and methanol dissolves it faster than ethanol, but due to the composition changing from batch to batch, supplier to supplier, do not count on isopropyl alcohol dissolving any given sample of dewaxed shellac JD Richard experimented with liquid shellac and once he had dewaxed shellac I told him that his isopropyl alcohol should dissolve it, albeit slowly. It didn’t dissolve. He did get it dissolved in denatured alcohol, though. Upon investigating that, I found it comes down to shellac being poo from lice, that batches can vary depending upon what the lice were eating and other factors, and isopropyl alcohol isn’t a reliable solvent for all (dewaxed) shellac. I’ve never heard of dewaxed shellac that won’t dissolve in denatured alcohol (ethanol) or methanol, though.
The Mosely collets that sort of fit only need a spacer tube for the draw bar to work if the length of the parallel "tail" is the only issue. More importantly though is the taper the same angle and is the parallel "tail" the right diameter. Same with any others you might have that seem to fit. If you simply want to get things going quickly check with local model railroad hobby shops for K&S brass tubing. If you get the size you need you can easily cut and face a spacer tube to permit using the Moseley collets.... Again assuming that the other dimensions are the same as the WW collets. I know that I've seen other videos that use solid shellac sticks to butter up the "wax chucks" to hold parts. I wonder if you're not supposed to use the shellac in solid form as the "glue". Of course with the heat it'll soon evaporate off the alcohol. The tools you got are seriously cool. But then I think most of us that take on hobbies like this are pretty much incurable toolaholics.. So no surprise to see your smile at such things. :D
I agree. A spacer ring should be able to be installed to make up for the added length
You can also make a shorter drawbar to use with the longer collets
Hi Bruce, my area is lacking for good hobby shops, so I will need to extend my search. That's a great idea to source model railroad supplies, I will have to look into that. One of my next experiments will be heating shellac into a block, and then stretching it to try to make shellac soldering sticks. I bought the big bag because I really wanted to see everything that shellac could do. I also want to try it as a finish on wood, which I remember doing as a kid. (I'm pretty sure it was a liquid in a can, but I thought it would be fun making my own.) And yes, more tools = more happy! 😁
@@tweedrhino That would be the ideal option of course. But it means having a suitable lathe that is bigger than the watch maker's lathe to make the drawbar. Of course now I've just opened up the door for Mike to look at buying a CLOCK maker's lathe. Tool creep ya know..... :D
Great video Mike ...Sure using Shellac is the traditional way to go but in today's world there must be an easier way. I mean what carpenter or joiner boils up fish to make wood glue?
The watch industry has embraced many new materials and techniques. Hairsprings are often glued to the collet and stud rather than being pinned. Hairsprings are made of exotic temperature invariant alloys, as are balance wheels. Yet they still use shellac to secure pallet stones and roller jewels. This is because it’s ideal for the job. It can be softened by heat so that adjustments can be made and it doesn’t off gas corrosive gases as some glues do over time.
It seems to be pretty much perfect. Not least 100 year old watches and it’s still as good as the date it was set
Wait, I can boil fish and make glue? (...pulls out notebook of KZread video ideas...) 😁
Oh I have the same ultrasonic cleaner works great on watch parts but I didn’t consider a 3 part cleaning system. I’ll give it a try !! Cheers !
Lately I have been putting everything (that fits) into smaller jars first. Not only does it save cleaning solution, but it is much easier than scrubbing grime out of the big tank. 😁
Great video Mike. Looking forward to the pocket watch restoration! And yes, Alex Hamilton is a real pro, with a cool name to boot!
Hi Jimmy, yup, Alex won the name lottery didn't he? 😁 Hey, QQ… Do you have any resources for pocket watch to wristwatch case conversions? This pocket watch is a size 0 and is begging to be worn on the wrist if I can get it running.
Aw, thanks a lot, guys. Now whenever I watch Alex’s tutorials, I’m gonna hear “Al-ex-an-der-Ham-il-ton” in my head 🤣
@@Mars-zgblbl 🙉
@@WatchWithMike I know a guy that does conversions with 12s pocket watches. Let me ask him whether he has cases for 0s conversions. I'll get back to you.
Hi Mike, just heard back. It costs $400 for the conversation case. That's cost, direct from the supplier. 😬
👍👍
Hi Al! It's good to see that you have been shellacking KZread with videos again! Well done, my friend! 😁
@@WatchWithMike thanks
Mike, I admire your determination!
Hi Tom! I'm diving in head first! (I had no idea how deep this hole is!)
It’s amazing and teaches us to appreciate the work that goes into manufacturing mechanical watches even more.
Lovely work!
Thank you! This was a very fun project. 😁
Mike, this was helpful. Thanks for showing the good and stumbles.
You are welcome! We learned by stumbling. 😁