This looks like a smart purchase for many hobbyists. I think what I'll do is buy a Bergeon case for winders, and buy individual Bergeon arbors & barrels the first time I re-use a mainspring for that size/direction. It's also not strictly necessary to have both the left- and right-handed handles, even if you use winders in both directions. I won't have the satisfaction of a complete set (probably ever) but I'll at least have good quality winders for the sizes & directions I need as well as a nice (sparsely populated) home for them. Buying a new mainspring is always an option for a caliber you don't expect to work on often, although I've seen more experienced hobbyists than me flub the (seemingly simple) installation, which then puts you back in the position of needing a winder. Anyhow, thanks for sharing this. 👍

@WatchWithMike

6 ай бұрын

Your plan sounds like a good one! Another situation I ran into with new hairsprings is that they came wound, but the retaining washer was too big for the barrel I needed to get it into. When I asked the vendor (Cousins UK) if I could get the same spring wound smaller, they told me to use a mainspring winder, which they were happy to sell me. Lol! Good luck with your projects and thanks for watching! 😁

Those T-Tabs on the mainspring can be a royal pain. The barrel may have a notch that the tab has to go into as well as the cover. Of course the tab can't fit into the hole until it's released from the winder. I have marked the winder with a pen where the tab is and marked the barrel too. Line up the marks and it gets pretty close. So long as winding the spring draws the tab closer to the hole it'll pop in with a little fiddling.

@WatchWithMike

6 ай бұрын

Those t-tabs drive me crazy! I never thought of marking them in advance… Great idea! 😁

I found a less expensive solution, but it took some trying. I first tried 3D printed winders and found them fiddly to get the staple hooked into the mainspring. I then tried the 3D printed barrels with some Bergeon generic winder arbors that I bought. That was better, but still not a long term solution. I tried a cheap Chinese set. The problem with those is that they are caliber specific, not generic sizes like the Bergeon set. Trying to find an arbor and barrel combination that was needed just wasn't possible for many of the vintage watches that I was working on. My solution was to turn the Chinese set into a generic set, like the Bergeon one. To do so, I needed to drill out the arbor holes in the barrels on some to accommodate larger arbors. Then in combination with the Bergeon #6 and #8 arbors (3.0mm and 3.5mm arbors respectively), I now have a more generic set with up to a 3.5mm arbor. The cost of the Bergeon arbors is far cheaper than the full winder cost. If I need a left hand wind instead of a right hand wind, or vice versa, I drilled out the inner hole on some brass washers to various sizes. I'll wind the main spring, insert into the washer, flip and then press into the watch barrel. This solution is working for me so far, without having to fork out for a Bergeon set.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Interesting ideas! I agree that the most crucial part of the whole winder assembly comes down to the arbor and the hook. The Chinese set I tried had terrible hooks. I like all your adaptations - thanks for sharing your ideas!

@gpraceman

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike Did you have a set with brass hooks and arbors? I know the brass hooks would wear out pretty fast. The newer cheap sets are steel. But the those sets only have arbors up to 2.7mm, which was too small for many of the mainsprings I needed to wind, which was why I added the Bergeon #6 and #8 arbors.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

@@gpraceman mine had steel arbors and hooks. You are correct, the arbors were too skinny. And the hooks weren't very hooked… More like little nubs. 😂

@gpraceman

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike I try to match up the size of the winder arbor with the watch's barrel arbor. So, far I haven't had a problem with the hooks engaging the mainspring

Most of the tools I have are on the cheap. They suffice for most of the things I do but when you seriously get into it like you these great tools are a must! Proper tools enhances a craftsman's capability!

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Well put! 😄 Yay, I'm a craftsman now! I need to use this reasoning with my wife. You should've seen the look on her face when I told her how much these cost. (But beyond her initial reaction she's completely supportive!)

@johanvandersandt8904

9 ай бұрын

That is always awesome to have a supportive spouse! You could also tell her about the cost per use where the price is divided by the times you used it. That way it seems expensive now but in 5 years it would cost you a few bucks per use. As the saying goes... Buy once, cry once.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

@@johanvandersandt8904 lol, yes! I figured it out… If I do 43 watches then the winders pay for them selves as opposed to buying new main springs. I love math!

@johanvandersandt8904

9 ай бұрын

There you go! Have a good one Mike! 😁👍

@mokumholland5640

9 ай бұрын

If one doesn’t have a hobby it’ll be cheap too…😅

I've been using a vintage K&D set. Begeon is quality, but the price for this set is just too hard to justify for me as a home hobbyist.

@WatchWithMike

8 ай бұрын

I'm seeing good comments about the vintage K&D winders. 😁

@tttm99

6 ай бұрын

This looks like an excellent tip. Thanks for sharing it!

Your studio makes me think you and I have a lot in common 😂 also, my favorite tweezers are my bronze Boleys. I'm still working through tweezers and I'm sure I'll find others but right now, those Boleys are such great quality.

@WatchWithMike

4 ай бұрын

Hi Eric, watchmaking is one of MANY hobbies! Even though I'm mostly making watch videos in my studio, it is also my music jam space. I've been using my Dumont tweezers almost exclusively. The gold pair I have looks like bronze but is actually gold plated stainless steel. I really need a good pair of bronze tweezers... 1) because they are softer, and 2) because my SS tweezers keep getting magnetized! Ugh! 😂 I'll take a look at Boley - thanks for the recommendation!

Could have been me 6 months ago. Great watching your channel Mike.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

So in 6 months time I'll definitely have this down to a science. Awesome! 😀 And I'm glad to have you watching!!!

Ha ha! @ 06:30 "I'm glad we're learning together" I'm glad we're learning together too! And that spring is unwinding in your hand not mine! 😂😂😂 (Don't worry, I'm sure I'll be in an even worse situation with my Chinese ETA 2472 winder!) Thanks for this video, Mike! It's really helpful!

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Hey Dayton, do you remember those toys that looked like a mushroom and they had a spring and a suction cup and you would push the mushroom cap down and compress the spring and engage the suction cup, and then just wait for the suction cup to reach the limit of its holding power and the spring would explode up and make the toy jump in the air? Similar feeling... 🤣😎

@ElderPinto254

9 ай бұрын

Cannot wait on that Chinese ETA 2472 winder video!!🤣😂🤣

@IShootWatches

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike I do! I also remember the Jack in the Box wind up toy. Springs are probably the number one reason I love mechanical watches so much. May those that get away from us rest in power!

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

@@IShootWatches The only force in nature that's more fascinating to me than a spring wanting to relieve its compressed power is water's unapologetic compulsion to flow downhill. In fact here were 'water clocks' long before there were timepieces powered by metal springs! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_clock

Good video, Mike, and great video production as well

@WatchWithMike

4 ай бұрын

Thanks, JD! This was a big purchase for me and I was really excited.😁

Mike, this is great be someone has probably suggested this but to avoid accidentally pushing the still unwound spring prematurely, use the barrel WITHOUT the handle and only put the handle on when you’re ready to deploy it into the watch barrel

@WatchWithMike

7 ай бұрын

Agreed, you can wind the spring without the handle. Now that I am used to the set, I like having the handle because it gives me a firm grip. The deployment button is far enough away that it hasn't been a problem. I suggest people practice both ways and see which is more comfortable for them. 😁

Your experience is in invaluable for me.

@WatchWithMike

5 ай бұрын

For me, too! 😁 I'm sharing as I learn.

nice mike!!! now injoy the most nicest click in watchmaking putting the spring in the barrel enjoy your sweet set!!! ( like you pinfeise trick)

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Hey @elderpinto4102! Yes that's a pretty sweet sound. Much nicer than having the barrel explode and sending the mainspring, arbor and lid flying, which of course I know from personal experience! 🤣

@ElderPinto254

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike hahahhahahhahha that will take the love out of watchmaking very quick ... i saw battling that crazy mainspring hahah he can grow in couple of seconds from little to big 🤣🤣🤣 i know that one also from personal experience!!!

I have many various makes of spring winders all I have found have positive and negative issues. The Bergeon is without doubt the best in terms of build quality. The issue I have found is some of the winding arbours are to fat fir the centre of the spring being wound. When I have this issue I use another winding system made by “Master craft” which is bi directional. The Chinese version of the Bergeon are problematic because the wind notch ( hook) is made of brass and wears away very quickly. I have noticed most pro watch repairers as a matter of cause just fit a new spring.

@WatchWithMike

5 ай бұрын

Derek, you bring up some interesting points. The Chinese set I owned had a steel hook, but it was not machined well so it didn't grip, among other things. I have also experienced the Bergeron winder arbor being a little "fat". You need to take care to wind the spring very tightly so everything fits in the winder barrel. Sometimes that is a struggle when the spring has a tail on it. Finally, I have purchased new main springs and gone to install them, only to find that they are pre-wound in a diameter that is too wide to fit my barrel. So I had to unwind it from the washer and wind it myself. What a pain! That was the final straw before I bought myself the Bergeron winders. 😁

@derekashenden9789

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree it really is not one option / method that works. As a pro horologist said to me spending a while deciding the plan of repair can save hours of frustration. I have tried the hand insert method with mainsprings with some success BUT many failures as well. . @@WatchWithMike

I envy your spring winders. I'll be buying good tweezwers before I spring for the winders.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

@dale4034 - Definitely! Good tweezers and so rewarding. Tip: check out Esslinger.com's clearance section for tweezers. I got my Dumpnts there for a reasonable price. It looks like they are still on sale.

Thanks Mike for a great demonstration in regards to using the mainspring winder. I find that on a lot of videos I can't quite see all the steps involved. I have avoided servicing the mainsprings so far in my hobby as a beginner and have just started to practice unwinding and winding them by hand. I was thinking of buying a cheap mainspring winder kit, but now I think I will wait until I can afford a nice Bergeon set like yours as well as upgrade my tweezers and screw drivers. I want to thank you for your great videos. I find them very uplifting and helpful.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Hi Ross, thanks for the nice words! Good tweezers and screwdrivers are indispensable. Getting a pre-wound new mainspring is definitely an option to rewinding an old one, and doesn't cost that much. I had some bad luck getting the correct one, but that shouldn't stop you. 😁

As I find myself making more and more custom tools for various applications, it simply boggles my mind that people can make such (needlessly) hyper-specific tools for minimal speed/reliability increases, for such galactic sums of money... and yet people still pay for them! And as it happens I'm looking at a fully adjustable winder patented in the early 1900s right now and thinking how something similar or better might be made with surely minimal effort. It's 2023... I think we can do better than the innumerable barrels and winders for vast sums of money. Surely!? I guess I'll find out. Yet another custom tool to make it seems. I guess I'm off to the workshop. Again.

@WatchWithMike

6 ай бұрын

I agree with what you're saying! I bought this set because "it's what professional watchmakers use"… I really like using them, but since acquiring them I have seen many other mainspring winder designs. This is a great application for a DIY tool. If you have shop skills then watchmaking is a great opportunity to innovate. Thanks for watching and joining the conversation! 😁

@VWatchie

4 ай бұрын

It’s interesting to see how the human mind sees no or little complexity in the fields it has little or no knowledge. Perhaps a good thing or we would be too intimidated to start any new endeavors. One parameter often overlooked is the arbor diameter. So, not even the complete Bergon winder set covers all variants. Anyway, good luck!

@WatchWithMike

4 ай бұрын

@@VWatchie indeed, the Bergeon offering of mainspring winders has arbor diameters that go up proportionally with the size of the barrel diameter. The Chinese set I purchased was movement specific, and some of the matched arbors were ridiculously narrow compared to the width of the barrel. A great example of the equation "number of tools I need = number of tools I have + 1" 😁

Nice purchase. Enjoy. I sometimes have a difficult time attaching the mainspring onto the winder’s arbor. Guess that I need more practice. Appreciate the video.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Hi SkyBlue! The arbor attachment is definitely one of the trickiest parts. The better construction of this set gripped the hole in the spring much easier than the other set I had. Definitely: practice makes perfect. Thanks so much for watching and joining the conversation! 😊

Thanks for this Mike!! Good to know it’s worth the investment

@MikeFyxdt

9 ай бұрын

Agreed! And I did everything I could to bypass buying "good" winders… But in the end this set is definitely worth it. 😁

@WatchWithMike

8 ай бұрын

You bet!

Thanks for the video. I need to order soon...

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Awesome! I'm glad it helped.

5,6 and 7 seem to be my most gone to winders. If you can’t afford a whole set buy these three as you need them. FWIW

@WatchWithMike

Ай бұрын

I agree! And if you mostly do European watches, then a right handed winder will work for most mainsprings.

Brilliant Mike . I didn’t know about that set. When I’ve used them at school I’ve come close to taking my eye out a few times. Not as easy as it looks

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Hi Colin! This set seems to be an Esslinger.com exclusive. It's not on the Bergeon website as such. Does watch school require eye protection for certain tasks? I've definitely been saved by my glasses a few times! 😁

@colinbenfield326

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike oh that’s a shame. Pesky import taxes. Wondered why I couldn’t see them on cousins. I wear eye glasses and yes they have protected me on a few occasions

Hi Mike. That was a great video. Looking forward to buying the same set real soon. Much appreciated.

@WatchWithMike

8 ай бұрын

Hi Monte! I've got nothing but good things about it, except the cost. 😁

It wasn't mentioned, but the T on that spring has to engage the notch in the barrel as well. Hole there can be seen at 4:45. Has to engage both parts of the barrel. ANYWAY, :) Once again someone shows me I don't need to go full-bore on the big master sets. :) I've bought so many one-time need Mac/SnapOn master kits for automotive work on personal vehicles... and I'm not in that trade. LOL!

@WatchWithMike

3 ай бұрын

Great point about the T tab on the spring, yes! It's satisfying to own every size tool in a set, but you don't save that much money buying the watchmaking tools master sets. I like this basic set, and I'll purchase a la carte as needed.

Thanks for the info Mike!

@WatchWithMike

7 ай бұрын

You bet! Thanks for watching! 😁

Hey Mike, Just wanted to stop by to say hey. How do you like the set. Your video’s are well done my man. Keep up the good work.

@WatchWithMike

2 ай бұрын

@watchrepairtutorials - Hi Alex! I'm so glad you stopped by! The Bergeon winders are a luxury to use, having tried hand winding and struggling with a set of poorly made winders. The Bergeon set feels very 'positive' (secure? solid?) when the arbor hooks the spring. Thanks for the nice words on the videos... I have a bunch of projects and videos coming, including my first attempts at using my new watchmaker's lathe. Today was 'motor rewiring day' and now it works! Looking forward to making metal chips, and if I'm lucky, usable watch parts! 😁

Nice, I hae the same frusteration, thanks for sharing.

@WatchWithMike

4 ай бұрын

@dodabartman123 - I think mainspring winding was my biggest source of frustration for my first year of watchmaking. It's amazing what the right tools let you accomplish.

I purchased the cheap one.. for 40€. I hope It'll suit my needs for now. Not yet ready to purchase a high end one.

@WatchWithMike

14 күн бұрын

In my experience it all comes down to the quality of the arbors. If it works, it works! 😀

Tools. We need more tools! Wind them up! :D 🕐⚙️⚙️

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

More watches requires more tools. More tools lets us work on more watches. Rinse & repeat!

@NaNByZero

9 ай бұрын

@@WatchWithMike Watches or not. We all know that tools are what we want. LOL Glad this Bergeon set works for you. :) 🕐👍🍭

I tried to fix an inexpensive Tissot and wanted to replace the main spring. Because I don't want to spend that much, I purchased a spring that one came rolled up tight enough. I didn't install it correctly and now I have an unwound spring, no idea how to wind it up again and no Idea on how to find the right tool without spending more than the rest of my tools combined. Starting the hobby can be quite disheartening at times

@WatchWithMike

3 ай бұрын

I hear you! Mainsprings CAN be re-wound by hand. I did it in my first manual watch rebuild video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZpZnq8-fkdvHpbA.htmlsi=rjAAE-qWemISfCz7&t=1034

Esslinger link appears to be broken

@WatchWithMike

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for the heads up! I guess they are out of stock since it's no longer on their site.

Affordable dream on cinderella

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Affordable compared to the "big set". This has been my biggest watchmaking purchase to date! And yes, I feel like a princess! 😁🤴

@mokumholland5640

9 ай бұрын

Be aware of the pea… Princess! 😂

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

Yes! Royalty has its risks! 🙂

How many mainsprings have you done with the left hand winders?

@WatchWithMike

Ай бұрын

None yet!

@tracymcknight8978

Ай бұрын

@WatchWithMike I've been told that it's the Japanese movements that are left hand wound, and Swiss are right hand. I asked you because I'm in search for a set of main spring winders, and was wondering if I needed the left hand ones.

@WatchWithMike

Ай бұрын

@@tracymcknight8978 I think that's generally correct. Seiko has left-wind springs.

I have found hand winding (without winder) to be much superior to using Chinese rubbish, which will damage the watch. Bergeon is the best.

@WatchWithMike

9 ай бұрын

@coopoylozenge5964 - Agreed! I was OK with hand-winding until I attempted my first 's' shaped spring. I made a mess of it! 😆

What do the call the small plate steel with holes of descending size?

@WatchWithMike

5 ай бұрын

I think you are talking about what's called a 'staking block'.