*** Please Read*** After a full day of comments and a lively discussion, I wanted to go ahead a pin a comment here for viewers who find this video in the upcoming days, weeks, and months. Many people praise these watercolors as being the golden standard in watercolors, but personally I do not find them to handle as well as other brands, nor are they affordable here in the US. However, I would never post a flat out negative review on this channel, so please be sure to watch until the end for my full thoughts on these paints. TL;DR if you are in the US, there are better options for the price. If you are in the UK or other counties where this is affordable, go right ahead, and be sure to glaze with them to see their true potential. My sincere apologies to WN for failing to mention that they do in fact market their pans vs. tubes differently. I was well aware of this but it was a genuine accident that it didn't make it into my notes. However if you want to see both my and my viewers opinions on these two different formulas, the comments section is overflowing with a healthy debate. Thank you all so much for respectfully adding to the discussion here, and happy painting :)

@joyfulldj

6 жыл бұрын

in the us turner's or yarka is a much better buy

@elisaramirez7122

6 жыл бұрын

I live in the U.S. and Daniel Smith is more expensive than winsor and Newton. Your information about their prices is wrong.

@robertomarzio1618

5 жыл бұрын

@@elisaramirez7122 I agree with you.

@NosKryme

5 жыл бұрын

Elliii 123 Depending on where you go prices will always differ. Mayhaps you live in a more W&N friendly area. DS is a US homebrand where as W&N will almost always have import fees since it's a UK brand. Making it seem more expensive than the Daniel Smith. It isn't because they charge extra for the brand name, it's just... they gotta ship it to the US and that costs money :o

@natashajohnson7206

5 жыл бұрын

@@elisaramirez7122 Actually...I also live in the U.S. and Denise's statement about the affordability of Daniel Smith over Winsor & Newton is absolutely correct. The three 5ml tubes of Winsor & Newton paints I have, cost me more than the 15ml tubes of Daniel Smith in the same color. Additionally, the Winsor & Newton cost more than M. Graham where I live. Maybe it depends on where you live and are purchasing your paints, but Daniel Smith, overall, are considerably less expensive and a much better paint to work with in my experience.

Incidentally, Winsor and Newton actually says specifically in its literature that you should not pour tube paints into pans and allow them to dry. They claim that they do not reactivate correctly and that if one wants pans, one should go out and purchase ready made pans. Although many people I know use W&N tubes and pour the paint into the pan to dry, I do not and I agree with your assessment that their paints dry very hard and are challenging to rewet. As far as I know, Winsor and Newton is the only brand that makes these claims about its tube paints. The pans do reactivate easier, however. I think this was a fair review and for the price that Winsor and Newton professional watercolours retail for in the United States, you are much better off with Daniel Smith or M Graham paints. For us in Europe, if you buy online from Winsor and Newton's website, the price is reasonable when compared with Schmincke. Daniel Smith are wonderful paints but are at least 33% more expensive here.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Conor! I replied to this in another comment and I'm so bummed I forgot to talk about this in the voice over. I think it's ridiculous that they state this as well, as many companies have proven they can use the same formula for both. And I actually thing it's EASIER to rewet these dried tube paints than rewetting their pans, which I have also found to be relatively hard. So I have no idea what they're talking about. It's another reason I'm distrustful of their products overall. As I mentioned, I don't hate everything about these paints, I just really don't like it when companies try to pull one over on their customers.

@Tennishead21

6 жыл бұрын

It does seem like a very odd way of making paints, I agree, with one particular, special formulation for tubes and another special formulation for pans. I use tubes all the time and I actually only have one paint, which came as a ready made pan, which I think is Winsor Yellow, one of my favourite colours too. As a result, my knowledge of W&N's pans is relatively limited. You're right about companies trying to get one up on their customers. Paints are expensive at the best of times and to insist that artists need to go out and buy a whole other set of pans to use when travelling is insulting. I did speak before on another video (I think you commented there too) about how Winsor and Newton's pans are made, when compared with Schmincke. W&N's are extruded pans, meaning a whole bunch of paint is made and baked in a batch, then cut and placed in the pan. Schimncke has a much better method, in my opinion, of making pans, through a pouring process where they pour pure liquid colour / pigment four times into the pan, allowing the pan to dry for weeks in between pouring to allow the water to evaporate. By contrast, Schmincke pans are a total joy to rewet and Schmincke also tells its customers that it is absolutely possible to fill pans with tubes as it is an identical formulation in both. I bought a Daniel Smith Pyrol Red recently and was impressed also at how well it rewet, having dried on my palette. Much more pleasurable to use when dry than the W&N paints. Additionally (I forgot to mention this earlier), you're right about the W&N Burnt Umber, which is a bizarre combination of pigments, when PBr7 is so readily and cheaply available. The W&N raw sienna is also an odd combination of two pigments, instead of my beloved PBr7 too, which I find odd. I started a number of years ago with Cotman paints, which, for a beginner, were sufficient, however, I now prefer Schmincke or Daniel Smith as my brand of choice. I also think the Winsor and Newton company was sold a number of times recently and many of the production of the paints are now done in China, as opposed to the United Kingdom or France, as before, which is also a bit disappointing. Did you have any W&N tubes actually? After a while, the caps are really difficult to open, for some reason.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your thoughtful reply! I totally agree. And yes, I had their winsor violet and Winsor green. Both are actually easy to rewet but their lids did get quite stuck. I actually think I had to cut off the back end of one to get back into it! I don't think that's specific to WN, but there are some brands who get it right, like Schmincke :)

@QueenWaspGo

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think WN's different formula for pans is a money grabbing scheme to purposely make people buy two sets of paints. I think the issue why they choose to have multiple formulas is due to the fact that they are such an old company and they walk a a thin line between revolutionizing art materials and keeping with their traditions. Their old fashioned formula is what is holding them back in their watercolor paint line compared to other newer companies, but they are almost doomed to keep to tradition due to the fact that their watercolor is still so widely used by other artists that are used how their paint performs. I think making watercolor pans with a different formula was more of a compromise. A way to give a group of artists who want pans what they want without changing the formula of the tubes and angering their fans of their tube paint Another example of compromise is their watercolor pens. I think those pens perform much better than their traditional colors tube or pan! They changed the formula enough to make them perform better, but it is a totally different product. There would have to be enough of a drop in their current paint sales for them to consider a reformulation of their artist line.

@Ricardo-fv2qi

6 жыл бұрын

In my country w&n an schmicke are available both at about the same price whereas DS are hella expensive and hard to get. I personally prefer Schmicke and an art store in my city has a 40% off Maimeriblu which are also really good especially at that price.

Wonderful video. I want to mention in all fairness, Winser & Newton tube watercolour is still being formulated the old way in that it was never meant to be used dried. If a person prefers their watercolour dry, they have pans for that purpose. The pans behave totally different and rewet instantly. This is because there is more vegetable glycerin in the Winser & Newton pans than the tubes. I learned this from a Winser & Newton representative from the company . In this day and age, nearly every brand of watercolour make dried pans with the exact formula as their tubes except Winser & Newton. Also, other brands give you a 15 ml size and W&N is only 14 ml with a higher price mark. So yes it is expensive. I love Winser & Newton because to my eye, they are very clean and vibrant looking and not at all gummy feeling to work with. Just a tiny drop of vegetable glycerin in an empty pan filled with W&N tube watercolour and stir with a toothpick and allow to dry and you have an amazing re-wetable pan watercolour just like their own pans. My own comparison charts show them to be more pigmented than Schmincke. And Schmincke is my favorite brand for texture. W& N cad yellows py35 range from very bright lemon to very warm. I adore that Lemon! The one you tested was one of the warmest in a light cad yellow. I have a lot of Daniel Smith and like several color's. But their negative to me is bursting caps and gummy consistency with extreme granulation in some pigments that shouldn't granulate. Again I love what you do and keep up the great work.

Hi Denise. :-) Well, since you asked ... The situation here in the UK is pretty much the opposite to what you describe: W&N is an expensive brand, as in par for the professional course (somewhere between Maimeri and Schmincke, say), whereas Daniel Smith is Expensive, as in eye-wateringly, ruinously, you're-pulling-my-leg-aren't-you? expensive. We're talking getting on for £1/ml for many DS tubes, and say about 60-80% of that for W&N depending on the pigments. The latter is also ubiquitous, and you can walk into pretty much any half-decent art shop and find the full range. So the practicalities are fairly persuasive. There's another difference though which probably plays in, which is the quality of North European light. If you live on a foggy little island where the default weather is drab your colour perception is likely to be quite different from someone used to the light in the Mediterranean countries or, I imagine, California. Have a look at any British landscape painting for confirmation of that. As you demonstrated it's possible to build intensity with W&N paints, but if they seem subdued by comparison to others that looks more natural to me. Horses for courses, in other words. A couple of specific points. As Conor Casey says, W&N are keen to point out the difference between their pan and tube formulations. It seems that most professionals prefer to use fresh paint from the tube, which obviously gets around the wetting problem; on the other hand this very lowly amateur hasn't experienced any problems with purpose made pans. Possibly a little harsh to call the company out without mentioning that? Maybe one of those supposedly airtight Fusion palettes with a damp rag kept in the mixing area would mitigate the problem, but anyway the company are up front about it. The other thing which you may well be aware of but which is worth pointing out is that the alizarin crimson is probably still in the range by popular demand, but there's a modern permanent version (and a permanent carmine which might be a better substitute). That turned into an essay - my apologies. Thanks for the videos which are always interesting.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing! As I mentioned in other replies, I'm very bummed at myself for not mentioning their pan vs tube claims. It got left out of my notes by accident. While they are upfront about it, I have actually personally found their dried tubes to still rewet better than their pans though, so I don't entirely understand the intention behind that claim either. I think you bring up a very good point about color differences in different regions and that's perfectly valid. I do wish more people talked about their glazing properties though! I'm really quite surprised that physically glazing myself is the first time I've noticed how vibrant they are on a second pass - and I've watched every review I couldn't find here on KZread before making mine. Preach this, WN fans! I'd have been able to jump on board a long time ago :) If they were affordable here, I'd absolutely be for recommending them but I thought it was important to let people here is the US know that there are much more affordable options and they don't have to break their banks to get professional quality they can feel good about

@GenWivern2

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, I think the main thing is to find something suitable within your local market, then quit worrying about it and do some painting. Art rather than shopping. ;-)

@gorway7

6 жыл бұрын

Loved your reply - spot on, I share your views and being from the UK I have grown up with W&N for over 50 years. I think you are right, the colours do work well for here - the light, the landscape it is very different here from somewhere like sun drenched California. I did have some problems after production was first moved from the UK to France, but they are largely sorted now. My daughter abandoned Cotman altogether after production was moved to China due to continual quality problems ...and they were bad! - but I believe that too is sorted now.

In 1779, Swedish scientist K.W. Scheele discovered glycerin by the hydrolysis of olive oil. Initially, glycerin was used in the manufacture of glue and cork, but over the time, its uses extended to other products. It was not until 1832 that William Winsor and Henry Newton, both painters and chemists, are credited with inventing 'moist' watercolors-pans of color moist enough for color to be lifted by the application of a wet brush. The ingredient that enabled them to produce moist watercolor cakes was glycerin and this invention launched the company Winsor & Newton. The reason glycerin made from animal products are not used to make watercolour paint is because it turns yellow.

In general, there is a difference between their pan paints vs tubes when it comes to it. In my experience, glycerin makes a real difference to how the tubes dry and rewet, so I usually add a drop to the pan and stir it in when I do this.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I agree that would help a lot!

@context_curated

11 ай бұрын

I added a tiny bit of honey to my most stubborn pans. Agree, W&N is great from the tube!

People snap immediately to Winsor & Newton not because they have been around a long time , but because are very good watercolours! Here in Europe are not expensive, if they take little bit to rewet spray them with some water and after a few minutes are fine, it has never been a problem for thousands of professional artists around the world, art is not fast food!

I like that they harden up because if you go to the seaside during hot summer, they won't melt all over your bag when you actually close them, like Schmincke Academy or Van Gogh do.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Oh no! Good to know.

@FuckedUpGenius

4 жыл бұрын

This is why I prefer the Cotman sketchers box over other travel palettes. I need something that can survive the heat of my tent in the sun, which can get up to 40 degrees Celsius or 104 Fahrenheit. The other student lines just melt away, not very useful for travelling

It's good to keep in mind that the type of climate varies greatly around the world. Paints that will seem very dry to you might be just the right consistency in other countries. When I go urban sketching this is the palette that I choose, they don't "melt" like other brands do here and there is not even the need for rewetting since they are the perfect consistency (I am living in a rather humid country). The paints I have I ordered from Jackson's overseas and the price was in the range of other brands. Some of my favorites from Winsor Newton are Gold Ochre PY42 and Potter's Pink (very good pigmentation).

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

2112Dahlia thanks for sharing!

@highlandlass74

2 жыл бұрын

I have same experience living in rainy and humid Ireland - my W&N tubes have never fully dried in the pans making them very easy to rewet. I didn't realise there was a difference in the formulation of pans and tubes before I bought mine so it would be very frustrating to find this out after trying to use them! They are quite affordable here so worth investing in.

@rebeccaneef6070

5 ай бұрын

@@highlandlass74 My experience is the same. Whether living in Central Texas or in Nashville, Tennessee, my W & N palette has never been hard to rewet. Cotman, yes, but not the premium line. I have palettes of W & N that are 15 years old and they still rewet just fine. I do love the softness of some lines, like both Royal Talens lines, but it's just a matter of degree for me. Might be different if I lived in New Mexico or Arizona, but in my climate W & N is a great option. Meanwhile, I just discovered that 3 of my DS Primatek tubes have turned to stone (in the TUBE, not in a palette), one has turned from blue to a brownish grey gloop, and one in a palette has mold growing on it. So any brand can give you trouble.

Lovely video once again! I got the notification at school and couldn't wait to watch and I wasn't dissapointed! Personally I like schmincke, DS and M.Graham but I mean I just like all paint XD. A really helpful video, again!

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you as always Arttu!

I live in northern Indiana where Winsor and Newton is about the same price as Daniel Smith, and even a tiny bit cheaper. They are more plentiful and offer a better assortment as well.

I really appreciate how thorough you are! Your videos are always a joy to watch. Interestingly, I have a similar problem with Daniel Smith paints drying strangely in my palette, shrinking and falling out. I don't have this problem with the other brand I usually stick with which is Qor. I wonder if it might be a climate thing? I live in mid-western Ontario haha

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

grendelline Daniel smith does admittedly have issues with this as well, particularly for their primatek paints and ultramarine in my experience. The other colors I have have been fine but the ultra I mix with honey or glycerin before it dries (I have a video on this too), and same goes for any of their genuine earth colors too.

Winsor and Newton doesn't recommend squeezing their tubes into pans but rather always using fresh paint. They've formulated their pans and tubes differently so that the tubes don't rewet as well. I've bought half pans from Ken Bromley during a sale and they were about 4 dollars for each half pan. I think the half pans rewet better than Daniel Smith but not as easily as Mission Gold

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Shoot! I forgot to talk about this and meant to. This is also another thing I really think is ridiculous about their marketing. I actually think their dried tube paint is EASIER to reset than their pans. I really hate when companies try to get more money out of their customers. There are many companies who have proven than the same formula can be used for pans and tubes and there's no need to make your customers dance in circles to try to figure out what colors to buy in which formulations.

I tried Windsor and Newton professional colors in both pan and tube and honestly I decided to sell my paints and invest in Daniel Smith and Schmincke instead. Everytime I touched my W&N set I was just so unhappy with how they worked and activated, and they always had a noticeable darker outline around the paint when it dried, which for me in my portrait painting is distracting. I have so many friends and fellow local painters who swear by W&N watercolors, so I always felt like the oddball out for not liking them. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's a holy grail paint.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I've felt like this for a long way, and couldn't understand why no one was saying differently.

@Toyon95

5 жыл бұрын

Oooh I thought all watercolor did that..... never knew it could be my specific paints....

Your videos are the early morning balm I needed today! Thank you and hope you are well! xoxo ** I am so thankful for this review. I thought something was wrong with me-- I dislike the W & N line. I had so much trouble with a tube, I returned it. **

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Nothing wrong with you at all! I think brand loyalists with this line perhaps just simply haven't used other watercolors and don't know what other glorious paints are out there ;)

@MrsTiffanyGrey

6 жыл бұрын

Ahhhh, yesss, so many brands for us to geek out on... so little money! :) :)

Coming exceptionally late to this discussion. I bought the fairly ubiquitous 24 half pan set here in the UK around 3 and a half years ago, from cassart for £19 (!!) it is the professional set, which were then called artists. I had added a few colours to the tin and took them away on holiday to a very hot and humid place where I got the odd gloopy jelly effect from them. I was very disappointed in them, in a country full off very vivid colour they seemed dull and washed out. On returning I also bought a cotman set nearly identical, really because the prices were visibly rising very fast. So I got this second set just in case. I hated them. Since then I have had a whole journey around brands and a good chance to swatch out and play a little with more than a few. I went back to the W&N artists a couple of weeks ago and completely revised my opinion of them. Using completely different paper and employing a different painting technique I got really nice results and mostly the colour did not disappoint. The only reservation I had was with a pan of Indigo that seemed to have developed a bloom on it. My take on the W&N is that they work well and indeed sometimes beautifully on really good paper, that doesn't necessarily mean arches, I get best results on handmade papers. Using these the colours sing, which so surprised me. They ARE subtler than some, just a little more mellow, and overall I liked them! which really really surprised me. I had no rewetting issues at all, but the UK is a cool and damp place so maybe this is a part of the problem for people in other parts of the world, I certainly had them in hot humid heat, maybe hot and dry is also a factor? They are not DS, which have a whole different feel to any other brand, there simply isn't anything like them, but they are a good standard work horse professional range and much loved by botanical artists for the colour range. Having said that I also have Daler Rowney in half pans and unbranded as quarter pans, they are up there with the best, omitting DS, though I understand their tubes leave something to be desired. Viridian in any brand is iffy and can become almost unusable with time, so it is not the best colour to judge any brand by, if the paints have been sitting around a store or warehouse a while then viridian is the most likely to fail. At the end of the day it is what floats your boat, I like different brands for different qualities. W&N no longer seem the disappointment to me, just a variety on a theme. I am however shocked at the prices elsewhere as these are utterly ubiquitous, not in the least rare, and can only think there are trade effects that we cannot know about for them to be so overpriced. So I understand why people would go for the DS instead, as they are completely unique in the way they handle. Only one other pigment brand has its own definitive characteristics in as great a measure, the lovely Kremer pans which genuinely are much rarer, and are hand poured. Though if you really want rare, there are Lutea, which I don't think I would dare use! But the main thing is to paint and enjoy.....

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these Lindy! The longer I have my pans, the less I *really dislike* them and move into more accepting territory. I still don't think that with our US prices that everyone should just run and break the bank on them, but they perform just fine if they're affordable and available :)

@Kyomiibrown

6 жыл бұрын

Lindy Ashford I agree with you about Viridian, it is the nature of the pigment - it’s been an issue in every set of watercolours I own and is not representative of W&N watercolours as a whole, it is the worst example to choose. Regarding rewetting, I have never had any issue, but in any brans of watercolour I use I always spray them 5 minutes before use, it helps prep them. I own the W&N tubes also, no issue whatsoever in panning them up, I have had mine panned up for 2yrs so far, and see no difference, and can only think W&N are covering their back in case there is a difference experienced. I prefer W&N pans to the tubes regardless. Now, regarding vibrancy - these paints, like Sennelier, are built for glazing, and when used correctly they give fantastic results, their strength is in the glazing . They are my staple “go to” - my “comfy slippers” because they are reliable and give a far more natural look to a painting than any other watercolour I have, especially for portraits. Watercolours should be transparent and built through glazes IMHO, which is exactly what the W&N paints are good at. I am not a fan of out of the box immediate vibrant watercolours because of the way I work, and with that in mind I know that glazing out-of-box vibrant watercolours lends to an unnatural tone in realism and such paints can look overworked very, very quickly, giving a certain texture on paper if more than 2 or 3 layers are applied. That’s one great thing about W&N, building slowly in glazes gives exceptional natural looking results that cannot be achieved through immediate out-of-box vibrant paints in my own experience. Horses for courses. Regarding price - I don’t know why an issue is being made of it, because it’s the same the world over for art supplies in general, what is cheap in one country is expensive elsewhere. There are a plethora of art supplies cheaper in the USA than UK (and even Canada,) and the USA also have regular weekly coupons, up to 50% off in some cases, yet in the UK, we don’t have the pleasure of such coupons to use in store, it’s virtually unheard of here. Global price discrepancies/variations for branded art supplies is par for the course, and is not unique to just the W&N brand, so I don’t understand why W&N is being ostracised regarding USA pricing - it all boils down to trade deals we are not privy to, sadly. 😞

@ashleywang8665

5 жыл бұрын

@@Kyomiibrown I am very much agree with you on WN. they worked best when you can build up the layers, glazed beautiful and never muddied up on me. A lot of Botanical artist are loving WN for this reason.

@LCLand

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kyomiibrown excellent points thank you! I learned a lot from your comment

I use Winsor Newton pan paints and I've never had a problem rewetting them (just give them a spritz of water a few minutes before you start painting). This could be because I live on the coast, less than a mile from the ocean. In a very dry climate they may behave differently. I also love the colour selection, and when I compare the them to the same or similar colours in other brands, my brain almost always prefers the Winsor Newton. As far as quality is concerned, I've found them to have excellent pigmentation and they're less expensive than most paints available where I live. I'd love to try Daniel Smith, but they're really pricey here and not affordable for me. I appreciate that you do paint reviews since so much of what we like and dislike about paints is subjective, and you're brave to put your opinions out there like this. Thank you for your honesty.

@InLiquidColor

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your kind response Rory! You may be interested to see my updated Top 10 video as they did make the list, and I remark on how hard I've been on them in the past :)

Such a great presentation and so much info! Love it. Funny about the burnt umber. I started with a W&N student grade set, years ago, and have only recently come back and added a few pans to my current Schmincke set. A nice collaborations! Cheers! ;)

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

M.D. Campbell indeed I'm due for a Cotmans update! Their Cotmans burn umber is fine. It's so weird! It's still two pigments but it's the right hue at least ;)

W&N is owned by Colart an American company. Paint production has now moved from England to France and to be honest the quality doesn't seem to be the same.

I almost laughed out loud when you started talking about W&N being super expensive compared to say, Daniel Smith. In Finland DS is almost twice the price of the professional Winsor and Newton paints.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I know it's like a different world on the other side of the pond! :)

@ulutiu

6 жыл бұрын

the fact remains that W&N is disgustingly expensive in US (there was about 25% raise in prices a year or two ago). for example cobalts cost $18. whereas DS equivalents cost $13. in such circumstances the choice is more than obvious.

@pikkuoo

6 жыл бұрын

ulutiu As Denise said, it's like a different world across the pond. I just looked at the prices of DS Cobalts and other colours in that price group: appr. 22$ in Finland, that's pretty salty. But I'm not disgusted just a bit disappointed. Why wouldn't American products be more affordable to Americans and vice versa?! No reason to get all het up. :)

@user-ic5xu4jh6z

4 жыл бұрын

@@ulutiu same with M.Graham and Daniel Smith- they are expensive here in austria. White nights are the cheapest colours here and some have good lightfastness.

I use DS almost exclusively. But I like WN Permanent Alizarin Crimson (it's a single pigment) and Burnt Sienna. I don't find them hard to rewet after dried from tubes.

I have a tube of WN cerulean blue and it granulates beautifully on cold or rough papers. It's my favorite brand for cerulean and I have DS (blech! I hated this one), Schmincke and Sennelier. Where I'm from DS and WN are both equally expensive lol so I end up buying paints overseas, mainly at Jackson's (no taxes for international orders yay!), so WN ends up being more economical to buy. And regarding rewetting I think it depends on the climate where you're in. I live in the tropics so climate is fairly humid and I have no difficulty rewetting their dried tube paints. Also their pans reactivate with a touch of a wet brush, I would say that the pans rewet faster than the dried tube paints, but the difference is negligible. Earth colors are lovely for landscape painting. I used to be just "meh!" with earth paints but when I started to paint landscapes, I grew to appreciate them. Especially yellow ochre and burnt sienna. Agree WN burnt umber is such a weird color, I personally don't like it. But I love their burnt sienna, and technically it should be called a hue since it is PR101. It's transparent, orangey brown and super lovely to use on it's own, like liquid rust. Prefer it more to PBr7 burnt sienna (I have Da vinci) which can get opaque when used in mass tone. No granulation though, so you should get PBr7 if you want that.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your additions to the conversation! I have heard DS's cerulean is not great, but I don't use the color much myself. I prefer almost any other brand besides W&N or Sennelier for earth tones, but I do love me some granulation these days :) If you haven't already come across it, you may really like PO48 (quin burnt orange or quin rust) - its similar to W&Ns burnt sienna. Gorgeous color, but I agree that it definitely should not be called burnt sienna.

Different strokes for different folks. Or in this case Burnt Sienna because I happen to love the W&N Burnt Sienna over all the real earth oxide ones I have tried. It may help that I found three tubes of old stock made in the UK 15ml Burnt Sienna on sale together for £5! I love it and don't find it weak at all and I love how transparent it is. But overall W&N is far from my favorite brand and I always add a drop of glycerin in with their paint when I pour it from the tube. It helps a lot.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Marissa Swinghammer perhaps I could be more specific, I have zero problem with the color of their burnt sienna, I just don't think they should call it that. Many other brands have this color and it's called something like transparent red iron oxide. It's actually very close in hues to one of my favorites, quinacridone burnt orange. I'm just protective over my burnt sienna name 😉 As for the glycerin, yes I would have mentioned that! If I was pouring these I'd have definitely added some as well. There are some colors that are totally fine like winsor green and Winsor purple that don't need any help :)

@marissaswinghammer3149

6 жыл бұрын

I prefer it to what Schmincke does which is a blend of PR101 and black for their Burnt Sienna! But I get what you mean. I find real burnt sienna too milky for my taste. Also I have three tubes, actually two tubes since I gave one away of the W&N to use. ;)

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Van Gogh has that formulation for their burnt sienna too. Odd!

@marissaswinghammer3149

6 жыл бұрын

Also I was back in the US over the summer and went to a Blick and my jaw hit the floor when I saw the prices on the W&N and the Schmincke.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Yes! It hurts so bad :( Haha. I'm currently on a self imposed paint buying ban, but I have my eyes set on some Schmincke colors over at Jacksons when the time comes.

Oh hey I'm so glad you mentioned that sheen to the colours when they dry! I was thinking of buying these colours because I want to switch to something bettern than Schmincke Academy (they had the same problem). This can be a big problem when photographing my illustrations in order to turn them into clip art. Van Gogh also does this.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, it's hard to photography them for sure! Rembrandt and DaVinci also do this more noticeably, just as a heads up!

I can confirm that Winsor & Newton has moved paint production/operation to China and I've seen a few people saying they notice a difference in quality (for worse, I'm afraid). So maybe that would explain the differences you've found... I don't know.

@milenabdesign

6 жыл бұрын

Here's one: kzread.info/dash/bejne/jGeC1NNpfrmYnbA.html

@Toyon95

5 жыл бұрын

What!? I thought it only was their cotman line?

@exitedaardvark5480

5 жыл бұрын

MilenaB. I believe that their professional line moved to France and it’s the Cotman line that moved to China

ASTM is not that much of a standard. All its measurements are done with liquitex acrylics, leading to numerous unrated pigments and results somewhat irrelevant when we deal with a medium other than acrylic (think of their fiasco with the perfectly lighfast dioxazine or the mildly fugitive prussian, for example. Both are given a characterisation which is irrelevant to their application in watercolor). That's why Golden refuses to use ASTM (definitely for qor but probably for other products they release) and who are developing their own measurement. Tbh, a company's proprietary system can be better than ASTM, if the company is frank. And alizarin is not too bad, it is very very fugitive, but it survives in masstone. I believe the lowest rank is reserved for fluorescent paints (see opera rose) which turns to bright white. Btw, I have used about 10 DS tubes, all turn to rock solid gum. I think that both w&n and ds demand prewetting, no matter what.

Something else you should know is that Winsor and Newton paints don't always mix well with other brands. I asked Jane Blundell about this (she has a website that compares a lot of brands and swatches for those who don't know) and she has only seen the problem within the W&N brand. When I mixed W&N quin magenta with other colours from M.gram such as pthalo green BS the paint would kind of separate and give a grainy effect, its not the same as granulation, and its interesting but its not the sort of thing you would want to do accidentally in a painting. Jane had it happen with a different W&N colour that she mixed with Daniel smith paints. I still use W&N mostly because I love their quin magenta, they are the most available brand in my area, and I have so many of their colours already it was easier to get rid of the M.Gram, and I don't find them particularly difficult to re-wet, Schmincke is much harder in my experience.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing... and super odd that Schmincke is difficult to rewet for you! They're like butter for me.

@bluebellink2221

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color I only have 3 tubes of schmincke, so I don't have a large sample size but they are like trying to re wet concrete unless I spray them with water and give them a while to soften. My W&N and Daniel Smith are like butter, and M.Gram is so soft that I can't keep it in a travel palette because they run all over the place. I think perhaps different paint formulas do better in different climates?

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Bluebell Inks indeed they do better in different climates but I'm so curious to know which colors you have from Schmincke! None of my colors are like that 😬

@bluebellink2221

6 жыл бұрын

Pure Yellow, ultramarine finest and i'm not certain what the third was I ran out of it, but it was a cool red. They aren't unusual pigments or anything, and they are vibrant and wonderful once I soften them, they just dry harder then my other paints and take longer to reactivate.

I also haven't reviews W&N professional because I don't have them bought in pans, just tubes people have bought me mostly. They do specifically say that their formula for pans and tubes are different, which is kind of another downside. Most companies you can buy a pan set and refill with tubes when you run out of certain colors which is more economical. Also, I have recently learned that the formula can change LF ratings and they don't address that. I think the tubes of these paints are meant for people who like to use paint wet straight from the tube, but that can also be a downside because I feel like you can waste more paint this way. All in all, these and the Cotmans are my least fav of all I have tried.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

TheHomegrownArtist I'm super bummed I forgot to talk about this but replied on Conor's post. I think the whole needing to be used wet is a gimmick as many other brands have proven the same formula can be used for both. Like you said, it's super unfair to customers to not be able to buy tubs to refill pans... not to mention I personally think their pans are just as hard to rewet!

@thehomegrownartist214

6 жыл бұрын

Well that's not good to hear about the pans being hard to rewet. I was going to get a lil set of professional in pans to see a difference in those and the tubes but it may not be worth it. I love how you are super honest about not liking them overall too. I thought it was just me. I don't even like cotman so far either but someone mentioned that my set may have been damaged because they love theirs so I may try another set one day. We shall see :) Some of the professional colors are gorgeous but some are just bleh, like the earth tones. And my burnt umber did the same thing!

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

My heart hurts a little, thinking maybe I shouldn't have been SO honest, but I want to be able to share my opinions with you guys, and I hope there aren't too many people who are mad at me for doing so. I can't speak for every pan in the professional line as I've only physically seen a few of them, but those werent great impressions haha. The Cotmans... oh the Cotmans. I think the only colors I like from that set are the phthalos, and the burnt umber is decent. nearly every other color I've replaced. It's on my list to do an updated review video of them later this month, particularly vs my favorite student line which is Van Gogh - so more to come!

@thehomegrownartist214

6 жыл бұрын

Girl, what can you be if not honest! I understand though... so many people rave about them. But when you try all of the other brands that are just so much better, including Van Gogh or Grumbacher over Cotman even, you gotta put your honest opinion out there. You're the first person I've seen who has done so and I love it! Not that if W&N were the only paints out there I wouldn't use them, lol.

I sincerely appreciate your review. I did the same... buy because of availability. Mostly earth tones. I’m going to use up what I have ASAP and replace with my preferred DS.

Greeting across the pond, dear Denise. Thank you for your honest and straightforward video. I truly enjoyed it. It blew my mind to hear the W&N are more expensive than Dan Smith's. In the UK, to coin a phrase, Dan Smith costs a 'mortgage'!! It also came to my attention that W&N Prof'l colours are produced in FRANCE!! - their Cotman colours in CHINA! What is going on? I trusted that they were a solidly UK company and am sadly disillusioned. I am seriously not jingoistic but we all like to support our national companies where we can, as I'm sure that you do. Fortunately, when I got my W&N 24 x metal palette in the mid-1970s, (in which I filled the central tray with more colour) there is a chance that they pre-date this out-sourcing when I filled it it with Prof'l colours. As my 'major' is in monochrome pen and ink, the half-pans still have plenty of original colour left. However, as I create new pans, despite not being a 'Putin-fan' at all, I may well give White Knight a try. I had to smile at the Vegan references. Jut watched an advert for on TV for 'Vegan Chicken'. It seems that many Vegans want to abhor animal products but want their food to taste as if it came from animals or poultry! A hint of hypocrisy creeps in here? Your video was very thorough and educative and it opened my septuagenarian eyes wider than before and I am grateful and applaud you. In the UK, W&N Prof'l Colours are expensive (TO ALL BUT THE RICH). On a pension, I can no longer afford them. (In my younger days when I did a lot of pen and wash artwork for sale and taught pen & ink in adult education classes, I was able to extend my palette with W&N Prof'l Colours a couple at a time out some of some of the proceeds.) I am currently basically using my 1970's Prof'l Colours but am replacing with Cotman purely due to 'value for money'. As I create new travel and outdoor palettes, I will use Cotman, as the difference to me seems so marginal that it is not worth 'the extra'. Once I've used up my W&N Cotman, I will be looking around elsewhere to fill my half- and full-pans. I applaud your careful and sometimes generous remarks and I have learned a lot from your in depth analysis. All credit to you. Sorry that I have bleated on but hope the comments might be helpful (or at best, a little bit interesting). Best wishes and SINCERE RESPECT across the pond from Paul in the UK midlands.

Great video as always and even though it's almost 5 years old, the prices are still incredibly high for the Winsor Newton Professional line here in the US. I have been using Cotman, but OMG are they hard to use, especially now that I'm learning more and more. So much work to mix a dull, diluted wash. I recently bought the Daniel Smith 24 color half pan set curated by Jane Blundell. Talk about a difference, Holy cow!

Good to know. I don't currently own any W&N. So far, I am a fan of M. Graham and only have a few Daniel Smith (due to lack of availability where I live and price). Appreciate everyone's opinions.

The only thing I like about W&N watercolours is their vintage watercolours, you can find loads of unique palettes and discontinued paints in old shops and on ebay. I do find the tube paints rewet some quite difficultly, i used to add honey to them before switching brands. Funny fact the paints are cheaper in Europe than in the UK. They have some paints which are probably worth getting such as the cerulean blue as its fairly cheap compared to some brands.

I lovvvvvvvve my Mission Gold Watercolors! They are beautifully vibrant and so creamy!

Have never liked W & N much, but I think their watercolor sticks are more reasonably priced and their sap and olive greens are nice, but I have fallen in love with the honey-based paints, so MG and Sennelier and maybe Renesans for me :)

I laughed when you said they were more expensive than DS. They are some of the cheaper professional options here in New Zealand. But we don't have a huge selection here. Qor, DS and schmincke are all available here but cost at least a third more if not twice. I agree they glaze beautifully and I used them professionally for some years before I shelled out for my current DS pallet.

I only really use Hooker's Green, Rose Madder Genuine and Opera Rose from the professional range. The rest of my collection is MGraham, Cotman, Kuretake and a touch of Daniel Smith. Though I am getting two Prima sets here in the next week or so to try out 😊 I switched from W&N Payne's Grey to MGraham's version because it's also quite similar to Indigo and I love the duality of it. I liked this video and it had lots of great information on it.

I purchased a complete set of Windsor newton 5ml tubes separately for far less than buying a tube set already put together. The average cost was about $5 or 6 per tube through Blick Art.

As a professor of rhetoric, I was intrigued by your claim that WN seemed to "gloat" in regard its ivory black. Here is the sum total of their statement about the origination of the name of the pigment: "Ivory black is a stable all-round black colour with brown undertones and excellent tinting powers. Its name stems from the traditional method for obtaining it: roasting elephant tusks. Please note product packaging may vary from image." This is a simple explanation of how the name "ivory black" was derived. However, your mischaracterization of their explanation does match the somewhat pejorative tone of other statements and charges you made against them in your presentation. For example, why the seeming resentment of WN costing more here in the US, when you admit that on the other hand DS costs more abroad? I tend to buy my WN paints when abroad for that very reason. Things don't always have to be adjusted to please the American market, do they? (And oh my, those poor Australians who have to pay so much for art materials. 😟). Regarding what they call their lightfastness ratings, it might just be a case of which came first, the chicken or the egg. After all WN was founded in 1832. Moreover, others have mentioned that you are working from poured tube paints, when WN is very clear that you will not get the same results as if you were working from their specially formulated pan paints. In my "other life" I am considered a professional watercolorist and give instruction to others, so I feel like I too am qualified in my opinion. I have used WN for many years (as do many professional artists), along with DS, Da Vinci, Holbein, AJ, and other professional lines, and I have favorites in each range. I hope this comment doesn't come across as antagonistic. I just have an interest in words and opinions being presented in a fair and balanced way, especially in today's climate. 😊. And what's especially amusing to me is that for the way in which I use it, WN's burnt sienna is my favorite one, and I have others. But I have heard many people say they do not enjoy WN's burnt sienna. Each person has to find what's works best for them, don't they? Thanks for all the efforts you make to share your love of color!

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your additions to the discussion. I have responded to most of these points in other replies, but I'll try to do a brief summary here. I entirely admit and have always been upfront on this channel that I am a rather emotional conversationalist. In my "other life" before painting, I was a dedicated zoo educator, so opinion to this statement is rooted in that. I also noted that I was appreciative that they provide a list of their animal based products for their customers. My comments about them being more expensive is because they are recommended here in the US over other brands that are made here and are more affordable, which doesn't make sense to me. Regarding their pans vs tubes, I have actually found their dried tubes to rewet BETTER than their pans. Furthermore feel it's unjust to make marketing claims to their customers buy two different formulations and that you can't refill a pan you purchased from them with their tubes. There are other companies that have proven you can use the same formula, and to me this this nothing more than trying to get more money out of their customers. You have a very valid point about the lightfastness vs permanence ratings which I hadn't thought of before, but I still am wary about the discrepancies between the two. And finally, I have no problem with PR101 as a color, I just don't think they should call it burnt sienna. I tried to be very clear at the end of the video in summary that I don't hate everything about this brand. I will never post a flat out negative review here on the channel. There are great qualities to their paints, how they glaze, and certain colors rewet fine. But as is everything on my channel, these are my personal opinions and we are each entitled to our own :)

@marissaswinghammer3149

6 жыл бұрын

Speaking as an American that is currently living abroad I think Americans tend to assume that they will be granted the lowest price possible on goods, because they often are!

@MrsTiffanyGrey

6 жыл бұрын

Eirenmist:: Denise's review was thorough and more than fair-- as are all her reviews and swatches. She empowers the viewer with information and live examples so that we can figure out where to spend our hard earned money. I think it's pretty ridiculous that you can't use a tube of W/N to fill your own pans to get the same quality result they say to buy in their pans! I know that text doesn't convey tone in voice, so please don't take this as an assault. I hope to continually learn in my journey with this wonderful medium. I am grateful that we have choices in paint brands. Everyone should paint with with what they enjoy and in a company with principles that they agree with. Happy painting!

@Eirenmist

6 жыл бұрын

Tiffany, as I said in my post, I hoped that I didn't come across as antagonistic, and I told her that I appreciated all that she brings to her channel. I thought her reply to me was given in a great spirit of discussion, and I appreciated it. It's just that as a long time user of WN, I have appreciated all they bought to us artists long before there were many other pigment manufacturers. I just didn't think that it helped the conversation to impute to them motives they likely didn't have, i.e., "gloating" or deliberately using their own rating system, when likely theirs was actually first. That's all! For what it's worth, I have used WN professional watercolors for a very long time and I have never bought a pan and have always filled my palette from their tubes. However, it's wonderful that we have so many different ranges to choose from now. I love it! Happy painting to you as well! 😊

@MrsTiffanyGrey

6 жыл бұрын

Hello! I had to re-read the WN statement about the Ivory Black and here's what bothers me about it. Although they are matter- of -fact in their description, here are my two cents: Here they have the wide audience and the platform to continue the conversation and add a statement like, "Those practices are illegal and here at WN, we _____________. / We abhor any kind of poaching and now use ______________/" I suppose I would have loved to have seen a statement passing the message on to conserve and protect our wildlife! Ahhh! A missed opportunity! We animal lovers are a passionate bunch! :) I think Denise was just sharing how the tone read to her. In any case, it's good to question where we are getting art materials or any goods for that matter. It reminds me to be a good consumer and strive to buy fair trade and products that are cruelty-free. I can certainly appreciate that WN was able to offer watercolors when no one else was! I am taking a watercolor workshop this Saturday where the instructor is preparing paints for us to use and I believe they are WN! I am looking forward to hear what colors the artist likes. It's a floral class so it will be great to see them in action! I am glad we could have a civil/good conversation! Take care!

I did finally get in touch with qor and their formulation for PV23 is extremely lightfast so I would personally stick with that one

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

TheHomegrownArtist great to hear!

@heelerjustheeler879

3 жыл бұрын

QoR/Golden does Diox Purple better than anyone, both in watercolor and in their Golden acrylics. Just an amazing version of PV23 no matter the binder.

I just recently got into watercolor, but these are the only available paints where I am currently, but I have very little issue with resetting my tube paints from W&N. I prefer them to my M.Grahams which were gifted to me. Then again maybe I just don't know how easy the better brands can be. :) I plan on continuing to use Windsor and Newton, mainly due to convenience, but this is an interesting problem I was very unaware of.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I'm a big supporter of whatever works for you is the right choice! Just because I don't love a brand, doesn't mean it's a lesser quality paint, just different :) I prefer working with the juicier MGrahams, but someone in a tropical climate for instance like the texture of Winsor & Newton, which wouldn't get as hard there as it does in my dry climate :)

I agree with everything you’ve said about these watercolors. I try to avoid buying them but very rarely I’ll pick up a tube from Michael’s if I have a nice coupon. That cerulean PB35 looks really nice though! I might try that out. Thank you for the review!

I wonder when they changed their payne's gray recipe: mine is pb15 pv19 and pbk9 also, I'm in the Philippines but got mine from Cassart, an chain art shop in the UK, they have them at really low set prices. They don't ship internationally, only to certain areas like Ireland etc.

I have a set of W&N Professional half pans which I like but haven't tried using the tubes apart from a sample I got free with an online order. I only use the tube fresh. After purchasing a sample set of five tubes of Maimeri Blu I don't think I'd buy any more tubes of W&N. But I do like the W&N pans. I also like Sennelier half pans though these three brands all behave very differently in my opinion.

I live in South Korea and Winsor and Newton are much cheaper then brands such as Holbein and Shminke, Daniel Smith isn't available at all here. Mijello are the cheapest artist paint available as they're a Korean company but i'm not overly fond of them as they only sell 15ml tubes open stock at my art store.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the information Elizabeth! I hope it's helpful for other viewers :)

Great information, thanks for the video

Where do you find Daniel Smith cheaper than Winsor in the US? Both tubes are priced very similar in art stores online and amazon. Winsor also carries 37 ml tubes which are more affordable than anything in Daniel Smith offers. Winsor has added cost in the US because it comes from overseas while Daniel Smith is made here. I am really curious because I am debating which to buy.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Splikgug literally everywhere I've ever shopped. Series 1 (lowest prices) online are $11.55 per 14ml tube for WN while DS is $10.04 per 15ml tube. In art stores, they're regularly $14+ and $12+ each for series one respectively. The 37ml tubes are a value but not available in every color. Id personally go with DaVinci if I were looking for 37ml tubes :)

@splikgug7714

6 жыл бұрын

The problem I have with DaVinci/American Journey (I have 3 37 tubes from them) is that they leave a sheen when you keep layering or when you lay it down thick. I read somewhere that that happens when they add too much gum Arabic. That's why I'm staying away from m graham because I don't think thick paint would ever dry or rub off in layers. I might just grab some Winsor 37 tubes and if they don't carry a certain color I will buy that in Daniel Smith to try them. Daniel Smith is also kind of limited in their non granulating paints. I hate granulation. Thanks for getting back to me. :)

@Peeachez

6 жыл бұрын

Please let me know where Daniel smith is cheaper than W&N

Good review. I bought a bunch of WN WC in order to follow two artists' tutorials but I'm not thrilled with them. They seem really weak in pigment and intensity. I prefer Turner and Mission Gold as my two top favorites.

It might be the difference between temp/humidity in the UK as apposed to the states, but I've never had any trouble rewetting my W&N paints (squeezed from tubes). They are a bit cheaper here in the uk, as well as being very convenient and widely available. For professional paints, they're my go to, because they work so predictably for me. I've tried White Nights and Daniel Smith, and found Daniel Smith kind of disappointing, less workable and more gimmick-y, and very expensive for what you get.

Thank you. Very interesting.

Really good review and I do agree wirh you on many point. Being from the UK, it is our most readily available artist grade paint and although the "recommend retail price " is quite hi, they are easily sourced at well under 50% of that. I purchased my set of 24 half pan professional w/c in a metal palette on special offer for £29 and recently picked up a set of 8 14ml tubes for £45. I think the regular available prices for 14ml tubes runs from about 7.50 - £12 depending on series. Daniel Smith 15ml tubes best I can find run £11 - £17 ish. So you see they ar good value here. Art supplies on the whole are very expensive here - no Dick Blick type coupon deals. I would love to try Daniel Smith as i love granulating pigments but it is just too big a price difference so you see, we are both in the same boat. ...but you have better paints

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Peter! You have Scmincke though as well, which is a great brand :) It is unfortunate we don't all have the same access to every paint brand, but I am glad there are so many options to chose from on the whole!

@MissMagic

6 жыл бұрын

Schmincke are nowhere near as commonly available as Winsor and Newton. You can find W&N at all sorts of stores that sell crafts but Schmincke is only stocked by a few specialists. I really like the Akademie gouache for which I know of precisely one source in the UK.

Great review as usual, Denise! 👍 I have to agree with you, they're fine paints but not the best value for money. I just recently tried them as they're on sale at my local art store. But even with 25% off, their price per ml is still higher than DS, or even QoR. And until now, I thought those two had the highest price here in Indonesia.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I think QoR still takes the cake here in most expensive haha but WN is close behind! I'm glad you have more affordable options there as well :)

I'm in the UK myself and find them unreasonably difficult to rewet compared with Schmincke and DS even from the tube. I go to the US a LOT so am fortunate to be able to stock up on DS, and Da Vinci and a few stunning M Graham jewel tones with relaively little wallet damage

I don't know if I just learned how to work with them straight out of the gate because they were the first watercolors I was ever given, but I use W&N professional tube colors squeezed into pans and have never seriously struggled to lift them out to the intensity I want, even problem colors like cerulean demonstrated here; if anything, I feel like I have a bit more control re: getting both the deep and soft tones I need than I do with some more readily pigmented brands at times, but that might just be me and how I work. Some of them do dry super crackly and weird, though, no arguing that. lol I do hate the burnt sienna and have been working through a tube of it trying to find some way to love it, but I'm pre-tty sure I'll never repurchase... of course, some artists have very specific uses for it and that's cool. One W&N color I am dying to replace (which I'm unfortunately going through at a snail's pace) is phthalo green BS because it... molds...??? *Nothing* else in my palette ever has + I'd like to think I have the common sense to look after my materials better than that, but I see it happening to this one more than I feel is normal, and after some research I've found that it's apparently a very common issue with this specific paint. :/ Really weird. I think it's things like this, strange/unnecessary hue mixtures for staple pigments as touched on in this video, etc. that make some avoid and feel negatively about this brand, especially being touted as the "gold standard" which seems to make people feel extra resentful. I'm neither attached nor opposed to W&N in particular and will most likely continue to use them in the future, but there are other brands I like as well and I have a feeling I'll be happily expanding my collection of those paints instead. Thanks for your informative videos as always.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Caitlin, do you mean the while film the phthalo green gets?! I thought I was going crazy. I had a tube of this myself and never had issues, but the one in this sent that Jacqueline sent me keeps filming over the top. I've been wiping it off and continuing with it, but perhaps I should toss it! Thanks for the information on that.

@caitlinjeanne

6 жыл бұрын

Hey, sorry for getting back to this so late! YES that's exactly what I mean haha, it's really bizarre. :( Film is probably the better word, I saw other people call it mold but I don't really know because it doesn't spread to the other paints and I don't think it's caused by anything either of us is doing. I'm sorry to hear you're having that problem too, I'm starting to think I should just throw it out and move on myself.

Edit note: your pinned comment addressed this. I didn't see it before commenting. The one thing to note is that Winsor Newton recommends only using their tube paints fresh and to use their pans in palettes. Apparently they are formulated in a way that don't lend themselves to re-wetting as well from dried tube paint. I always thought it just sounded very uppity as they chided artists for filling pans out of tubes (which I actually have quite a few I use like this), but I tried their half pans and found out that they are 100% correct. Their half-pans have zero issues activating. I begrudgingly love a few of WN colors and they are on my main palette.

I used these for many years with no problem. No matter the manufacturer, tube paints always need to stay wet in a airtight palette. DS is fancy but not better at all. I had a lot of troubles with DS with granulation. DS doesn't grind as fine as others do.

I have Winsor and Newton Professional at home too. And I really really like them. But they're not my favourite watercolors. I mainly use Schmincke Horadam. Lukas might be cheaper here to get in Germany but I can't stand how chalky and dull are some of the Lukas colors. :( Thank you for this wonderful review! :D

Daniel Smith now has Permanent Alizarin Crimson that is lightfast. As for rewetting W&N tubes I haven't had issues or had issues drying in a palette.

In the UK a tube of cotman costs about £2.50 and professional is about £6

I use W&N, Daniel Smith and Schmincke. Here in the Netherlands these are all prized similar.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Pili Diaz thanks for letting us know!

@joyfulldj

6 жыл бұрын

where do you buy the ds ones... most 5 ml tubes i find sell for 8 euro.. wandn for 4 quite a difference... i am dutch as well so if you get the ds cheaper would be awesome

@pilidiaz7856

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color Gersteacker of van Beek heeft regelmatig online aanbiedingen. Je kunt je opgeven voor de nieuwsbrief. Ze waren een paar jaar eerder wel wat goedkoper, maar nu heel populair en dus ook duurder maar soms krijg je meer inhoud. Maar ook W&N artist kwaliteit is duurder als je speciale kleuren zoekt. Sinds kort struin ik ook op Amazon.de.

@joyfulldj

6 жыл бұрын

ohh thanks, ga ik meteen ff doen

Wow do you give great reviews!

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Betsy!

I've never really had issues with the w&n paints I have but it was the easiest for me to get the time, pretty cheaply where i live and theyre really all ive used for the last 3+ years so i probable just have nothing to compare to lol

Winsor and newton 5ml tubes are 1/3 cheaper price than Daniel smith in the UK. Spaniel Smith costs are just prohibitive and they are nowhere near as transparent! WN are also so much easier to buy in tubes or pans from even tiny art shops if you run out of a colour. I prefer the pans myself for plein air painting and running workshops.

Try Daler Rowney. I went to an art store and they sell W&N and DR. DR are cheaper(about half the price of W&N) so I brought it. I also have some W&N and they are easy to rewet. DR more easier to rewet compare to W&N. Some DR colours for example prussian blue, didn't dry rock hard like W&N. So i can get supper intense prussian blue.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Nelson Ong they're on my review wish list ;)

@MissMagic

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, my Daler Rowney prussian blue is also much nicer to use. I have the pan version of the Winsor and Newton one and it's just impossible to wet and get going, the Viridian is bad too.

@dannajolie

2 жыл бұрын

Daler-Rowney Artists are waaay better! Their Aquafine range is amazing, too, can't compare it to the Cotman.

my Winsor & Newton re-wet just fine

Thanks! You saves me some dollar😊

I feel this review was little biased. I am a professional more of traditional artist and have been using all kind of watercolours from sennelier, schmincke, w&n and ds and many more. I feel Winsor and Newton is such a great brand and their colours are so well balanced. And they got all the favourite colours that a traditional artist loves like cobalt blue deep, pb50, their pv16 is the best nd many more. I am not saying other brand’s aren’t great, they are. But winsor and Newton wc are also perfect. Daniel smith stands little lower as they don’t have so many pigments I love plus their burnt sienna is not good at all. Their potters pink shade is so bad and even their sap green isn’t my favourite one.

@InLiquidColor

2 жыл бұрын

We are all biased. I feel many of the same things about W&N that you noted about DS. I don't like W&N's burnt sienna (DS's is truly the only one on the market like it and perfect for animal portraits), and I've had issue with a lot of their colors when dried in pans. I've also had issues with DS drying too hard, they are not without fault. There are pros and cons to every brand and I try to state that as clearly as possible in every review. I recommend my 2019 favorite brands video if you haven't already seen it. They're both on there, with clear reasons stated for what I do and don't like about each.

I personally use Cotman and M Graham, And I totally agree, the earth tones are horrible, the burnt sienna is incredibly hard to get ANY color payoff.

I love Winsor & Newton (as they're the most available in my area), but I must say their strange choices for their earth tones is super weird to me. Especially coming from a big brand.

I have a tube of windser and newton cotman permanent rose and it dries pretty hard so i dont use it very often. its a really pretty color though

Thank you again! By the way, W&N prof. watercolors are cheaper in Europa than Daniel Smith. ;)

can you restart the wildlife paint with me series again? i miss those

The burnt umber has ALL the iron oxides!! Haha! XD I agree with you, these paints are HARD. I once had a halfpan of Pro W&N Prussian Blue and it was incredibly weak. I sent it back to them asking if that was normal and apparently there was nothing wrong with the pan... so yeah. I don't like that they recommend buying pans and tubes because their dried tube paint is different and the tube one has to be used "fresh". The pans are more often than not even harder to rewet than the dried tube paint... To me, they are the "old reliable"; it's everywhere and a decent quality. They are super pricey in Canada as well, which is why I buy mine from Jackson's in the UK, it's about half the price here.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Eve Bolt - Bolt's Vault exactly! I'm so sad I forgot to talk about this in the video but I replied on Conors post. The whole pan vs tube thing is ridiculous and I totally agree the pans are just as hard if not harder to rewet!

@daimolight

6 жыл бұрын

I think you might have a defective Prussian blue...the only issue I had with my 24 pan set was that the Prussian Blue was extremely weak. But when I saw this video, (watch?v=lstaPORLDho&t=96s - go to 21:30 in timeline) I realized it was not supposed to look like that and I got it replaced. Big Difference- I don't know why they include these defective versions in their pans- need for better quality control, perhaps.

@joannegrrl

6 жыл бұрын

They have a few like that, I share your experience with the Prussian Blue and I've also had that with Viridian. Other colours have been better, Sap Green generally performs well, but other than being one of the few brands to make to make the half pans readily available for those that truly prefer, there's not a lot of reason to recommend them over alternative brands like Sennelier and Daniel Smith.

@daimolight

6 жыл бұрын

John Cavan i disagree with you here. Among all the paint swatches i've seen, i think the W&Ns are just as nice looking as the daniel smiths. I find the senneliers too dark. The only thing is the cost but it depends where you come from. Where im at, they are all similarly priced.

@joannegrrl

6 жыл бұрын

Not a lot of reason to recommend them OVER other brands doesn't mean that there isn't reasons to recommend them, it's just that they're not a clear winner. I like all three brands for different reasons, but that doesn't mean any of them produces a flawless product, so it's okay to recognize various strengths and weaknesses along with our own preferences when it comes to behaviour. I'm not so invested in a brand that I have angst about it, really.

W&N version looks more beautiful to me in most of the comparisons. This video is very helpful for me to decide which brand to choose about specific colors.

@InLiquidColor

5 жыл бұрын

I'm glad it was helpful!

@robertomarzio1618

5 жыл бұрын

Because are better quality! (W&N)

Thank you for this video! Though I'll always have a W&N palette around and they hold a sentimental place in my heart- they are SO frustrating. Mine have even began leaving 'coffee grounds' on my paper. I've searched and search the web and not found any other information. Currently enjoying a few dot cards to build a new palette.

@InLiquidColor

11 ай бұрын

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope that your new palette treats you better!

i also have noticed that winsor & newton do not lift onto the brush well when they have been dried from the tubes, thinking they were worse than my no name brand i bought years ago. i would give them a break as i live in arizona but because of that i added vegetable glycerin and they didn't do any better, in fact they even cracked and fell out like your oxide. thankfully i only bought 2 tubes to try! i definitely prefer honey added to my wc, but i do buy some ds because of their colors (which i have had good luck with) and qor (because i just love their craziness lol). i'm glad that you posted this cuz i see all the hype and wonder how many people buy w&n tubes and end up hating wc in general because of the failure dry properly from the tubes. thanks for sharing! peace

Weird. You said they don't follow ASTM but all of my W and N tubes show "lightfast: I " or "lightfast II". No letters or anything?

I appreciate HONESTY!!!! I personally don't care for W&N So it's refreshing for someone to give a honest review on them. I now feel I can check your reviews for future purchases since our likes and dislikes line up fairly well

You’re so right! My first watercolor instructor recommended W&N, and was a waste of money IMHO. I felt, because they were so costly, I needed to use them up before changing brands. Finally I just said the heck with this and changed to Daniel Smith! Of course I’ve added other brands too, but W&N is admittedly my least recommended brand unless using straight from the tube. I wish instructors would give students a choice of brand!!!

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Linda Anne Calderone it breaks my heart that instructors are so strict with their paint lists. I understand it's so that everyone is using the same pigments and therefore should have the same experience, but there are obviously easy comparable options when looking for starter sets. You know what, I've decided, I'm going to work on putting together a resource for a beginners list of pigments with options across different brands. It may take a while to research but I'm determined now 😁

@HandmadeByLinanne

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color In Liquid Color that’s an awesome idea!

@crystalinedreams6039

6 жыл бұрын

yay denise, that is a fantastic idea! maybe you can make a list of some brands with colors that you don't have and would like to try - i for one would be glad to share if i have something you would like for that kinda outcome and i am sure other of your viewers would as well. :)

i bought the winsor and newton cotman 45 half pan studio set watercolour palette for £31...its not expensive. its quite affordable but then again i think it depends where u live. i live in England so its actually quite cheaper and affordable here and it might not be like that for people who live outside the UK.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

The Cotman's are not expensive here, it's the professional ones that are. I have another video on the Cotmans vs Van Gogh, and my thoughts on why I don't like them very much are in that video. As for the professional ones, they handle okay, but they're very expensive where I live, especially when I can get Daniel Smith for less.

@yxnotmin9814

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color Hmm, the studio set i got was on sale and i got 65% from the original price which was £89 and i get where u coming from with the proffesional ones. its really hard to get my hands on other watercolour brands like shmenke, daniel smith etc in England. all i see is mostly Dailer and Rowney and Winsor and Newton ones everywhere, however when i do come across other brands they are way too overpriced, but tbh everyone has their own interpretation of what they feel is expensive or not. i was actually interested in getting the van gogh watercolour set.

It seems silly that they don't use the pan formula in the tubes so you can pour and mix your own. Or make a third product of tubes specifically for pouring your own pans so there's an option for fresh vs dry if people like the fresh tube option.

winsor and newton doesnt seem to be one of the more expensive brands here, but I'm just newly getting into profesional paint, so might be wrong.

Hello Denise, how is it going? I'm a student in your Skillshare courses. I live in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and they are very expensive here as well. Now that Daniel Smith is available here, I guessI they are a better quality. Rembrandt watercolors are very affordable here, but I don't see too much difference with Van Gogh, by the same company. Take care.😊

@InLiquidColor

20 күн бұрын

Hello! I'm sorry I haven't been active lately in my classes due to some personal things, but I'm glad that you're enjoying the content! Hoping to catch up on messages soon. Happy painting!

Hi thank you so much for your video and sharing your knowledge.. Though your video I have learned so much and you have inspired me to continued growing and working on my watercolor craft and develop my talent. Please keep sharing you your knowledge and talent with all of us.. Can you please me the cards that you make for the watercolor switched what are there size and I love the idea of the organized in the protective sheeting I'd like to do something like that and where did you get the protective shootings also thank you so much best regards Edwina

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Edwina! I have the videos linked in the cards on the video. The swatch video I have explains everything and has all the information and links to supplies.

Weird.... my Burnt Sienna (PR101) by W&N looks much much more reddish than yours. Not sure if it's just the camera or what.

In Canada Daniel Smith paints are a lot more expensive than W&N

@InLiquidColor

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, it varies all over the world!

Great review, just one miniscule correction though, their Payne's Gray is made from Pbk6 right now, not Pbk9 :)

It would rub me the wrong way too. The o my colors I really love from Windsor and newton is their version of opera pink. Of the variety it’s the most lightfast and nice looking version of pink. Also I love their phthalo blue red shade. I do however love their burnt sienna only for mixing with ultramarine blue to make a gray. For some reason I prefer that color to mix with but on its own no thanks.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

I mentioned in another comment too but I have no problem with the color of their burnt sienna, only a problem with that they call it burnt sienna ;)

@erins.5420

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color what’s funny is your particular swatch of “burnt sienna is off”. Comparing my wn burnt sienna with cot man burnt sienna they are almost identical. I think you may have had a shotty tube or sample or it was mis-labeled

I have the same problem, thats why i gave all my winsor newton set to my friend.

Thank you so much for this review!! I was going to start building a Windsor and Newton pallet because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t limiting myself with just Daniel Smith and Holbein being a new artist to Watercolor but I think I will wait and spend money on brushes and paper for now.

I like very much Schmincke, van Gogh, Sennelier and W&N, I have little Sets from Daniel Smith, the single tubs in Germany are too expensive :-( My most loving colors I puzzle together from these brands and Im lucky with that. Best wishes from Cologne Germany

How do you get paint that has fallen out of the pan to stay in the pan? Can you put more paint on top of dry paint like Winsor and Newton paints?

I've been using these but lately I've found I don't like how they look/mix. The colours look to muddy or muted to me. I've been wanting to try DS or MGraham. Which would be the better choice?

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Both are great options. If you're looking for some POW, MGraham is more vibrant, but Daniel Smith has more texture :)

I think there really must be a difference between their pans vs their tubes. I bought their 24 pan set and the colors are extremely vibrant. watch?v=F1uUVDWPrW0 But in your swatches, a lot of the colors seem extremely dull or pale. Especially the French Ultramarine, Winsor Blue and the Burnt Sienna. Also, when I checked this video (watch?v=lstaPORLDho&t=96s), the W&N swatches looked better than the M.Graham's as well. I think this might be the reason they don't recommend drying out the tube paint.

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

daimo light i think you must be right about the vibrancy difference. It's so unfortunate though that you can't simply refill pans with their tubes! 😢

After fighting with my pleine aire palette of Windsor Newton cracking and pieces all over...i took maimeriblu gum arabic..,which also has honey...and remixed each and every color...took some time ..it was either that or fuss every time i went to use or throw it out....

@marjoriejohnson6535

11 ай бұрын

Maimariblu mixing medium...my mistake. It has honey , glycerine and a secret ingredient...not as soupy or sticky as other but does take a drop more.

I don't know what took me so long to watch this since I use WN still. Haha. I must admit when I first watched this I got a bit defensive cos WN was my first brand of paint and I am ridiculously sentimental about it. Also probably because lots of my friends keeps pestering me to give it up completely and just use my other brands of paints like DS or Shminke or White Nights (too many paints) 😅 I've read most of the comments here already so I'm just gonna share why I love using them. I'm a tight, realistic painter and my favourite subjects are botanicals and food. So the subtle mellow colors people complain about works in my favour and because I am such a control freak glazing is my thing and I can control the vibrancy (I was quite take aback by the loud colors of Daniel Smith and how the colors just flowed like undisciplined children when using wet on wet) but I have no qualms about using Daniel Smith or Shmincke in my painting (I just have to watch and have an even tigher control over them 😂). I prefer DS's Burnt Umber and Burnt Sienna. I also loveUndersea Green and Green Gold. I love Shminke's Helio Turqoise, Transparent Orange and Perylene Green. I live in Singapore, humid and hot and did I mention humid and hot? WN dries up nicely and rewetting is not an issue. In fact my main concern is that my White Nights and Daniel Smith remains sticky and I'm consistently worrying about mold. As for pans and tubes thing? *shrugs* I can only find tubes here so I squeeze them in pans and let them dry. A lot of my favourite botanical artists that uses WN does the same, so no biggie to me. Although it would be interesting to test out if there is a difference between fresh from the tube and dried paint. (Did you know WN were the one that came up with the brilliant idea of adding gylcerine to watercolors and invented pan palettes? Otherwise we'd be still grinding our paints. That gave rise to the watercolor plein air movement with Queen Victoria leading the trend) And just to contradict myself when it comes to urban sketches I paint loose and fast so Daniel Smiths are my go tos)

@InLiquidColor

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Janessa! I can definitely see how these would be useful in a more humid climate, though I'm shocked to hear that DS doesn't set up! Mine are often on the hard side compared to most other brands.

@janessasanio

6 жыл бұрын

In Liquid Color Appreciate your response Denise! I think its really just the climate here. We get up to 90% humidity and lowest is around 60%. Feels like 110% everyday though 😂 it rains most days. My Daniel Smiths eventually dries if I dont use it for a prolonged period but because I use them about 2-3 times a week they remain sticky. In terms of dryness level and portability, here's how I rank them. 1. WN (Dries quickly after use, rewets decently, no worries on it shifting in around in travel palettes.) 2. Shmincke. (I only have 2 tubes. Dries in about a couple of days after squeezing from the tube. Dries quickly after use. Rewets easier than WN ) 2.Daniel Smith (I squeezes some into full pans last month and it's still sticky. But can be used in a travel palette although it takes longer to dry after use.) 3. White Nights. (I bought pans and its sticky from the moment I unwrapped it. I've not brought it with me for urban sketches or travel yet but my friends have brought theirs out without any issue.) 3. Maimeri Blu (It remains moist and malleable even after months of sitting from disuse in the palette and can shift around when travelling) If you're planning to travel to high humidity countries. I dont recommend bringing your M. Graham paints at all. They dont dry up. A friend uses M. Graham and she cant create a travel palette with it cos its like painting fresh from the tube and will certainly cause a mess if brought out.

Natural Pbr7 burnt umber has a tendency to darken which is witnessed in oil painting thus why some company make this color new formula I guess.

As soon as you were talking about how hard they were to reconstitute I said oh yah i know I can't stand my Cerulean blue and of course that's the first one that you said too it is so hard it's unbelievable it's like I'm dealing with a $2 paint $2 for a whole set of paint I mean they're not my favorite line at all I don't feel they're pigmented honestly I feel like the professional line is almost exactly the same as the cotman line I really don't see a difference in people do but I really don't see a difference

My version of W&N Payne's Grey is made with PBk6, Mars black.

I really don't like W&N, for many of the reasons you've mentioned. I've purchased the Cotman line and the professional line from W&N and I very much dislike both of them. I too don't understand why they are the gold standard, and it's refreshing to find someone who shares the same feelings. I find that even while using them fresh for each project (which I find quite wasteful) they still dry very quickly, at least where I live (Northern Vermont), and are hard to rewet within minutes of being on the palette. Honestly, even if I really needed a color quickly, I don't think I would buy these again. It would feel too much like wasting my money for supplies I don't truly enjoy using.

@InLiquidColor

5 жыл бұрын

All completely fair and valid points! I used them in my most recent streaming video and they're not too bad with a waterbrush, but even still, I prefer other brands for sure :)