These conversations are much better than formal debates.

@StriderGTS

4 жыл бұрын

I like both, this was particularly good though

@dumbthings7800

3 жыл бұрын

Debates are more like a battle I feel like people would rather get the crowd on there side than actually get somewhere.

@mlgfrog2470

3 жыл бұрын

Atheists when low profile theists get debunked: "haha stupid puny theist haha simple mind lol" Atheists when an atheist gets absolutely shattered "Wow what a respectful debate"

@dumbthings7800

3 жыл бұрын

MLG Frog way to kill a vibe

@joelalexander5338

3 жыл бұрын

Dumb Things You are so right. Frog is a stick in the mud. I really enjoyed their polite exchange.

Whatever side you’re on, there’s no denying how well articulate and respectful both of them were. Imagine a world where political discourse was held this way.

@humesspoon3176

4 жыл бұрын

Probably won’t happen anytime soon, sadly.

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

Great comment and irrefutably true. 👍

@Rubberglass

4 жыл бұрын

Totally agree! This was great!

@mykhailohohol8708

4 жыл бұрын

Too polite for my taste, lining with boring.

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

@@mykhailohohol8708 "Too polite for my taste, lining with boring." So should they have locked both Alex and Dr. Craig in an MMA octagon and waited for survival of the fittest to assert itself? Perhaps you are too used to the sight of Christopher Hitchens breaking every debating rule to enforce his world view upon others while always managing to dodge the difficult questions. The truth of the matter is that far more was achieved and agreed upon in this discussion than would otherwise have been the case with an actual debate where neither party would have been allowed the time or the opportunity to fully articulate their position without having this undermined by the kind of sophistry that Hitchens was famous for.

Even as a Christian. I adore Alex as such an intelligent, nice, and genuine people I’ve ever had the honor of watching. God bless William Lane Craig and Alex 😇

@matthewphilip1977

Жыл бұрын

Is there an equivocation fallay in WLCraig’s argument? To support the first premise he has to point to our experience of things beginning to exist from from pre-existing material; children; chairs; plants; etc. But the second premise is about a thing (the universe) coming into existence from nothing.

@germanshepherd2701

6 ай бұрын

@@matthewphilip1977 I believe he already covered that in the video but I’d have to rewatch it all go find the instances in which he talked about it. One potential answer in my head that I’m interested to here a response to is something I’ve been thinking for a min now… Craig says that god’s decision to create and creation occurred simultaneously. That includes the beginning of time, why wouldn’t it include matter as well? So god created fundamental particles in the same moment he thought to do it, and from these fundamental particles, which are not made up of any smaller particles to our current knowledge, come everything since. I remember Craig in the video bringing up something about how you can substitute “the universe” in the premise with fundamental particles. We don’t know how they came to be though, but despite that lack of knowledge, we know they are not composite things and so it raises and interesting question… they arguably came into existence with the Big Bang, but where did they come from before? So perhaps it was the efficient cause of the deity that led to all that in the same instant…

@avivastudios2311

6 ай бұрын

That emoji is so cute.

@raphaelfeneje486

Ай бұрын

​@@matthewphilip1977 Hope you're not holding on to this argument?? It's too bad one couldn't have made them up

@matthewphilip1977

Ай бұрын

@@raphaelfeneje486 Hi, Raphael. How else could one argue for the first premise? P1 Things that begin to exist have a cause P2 The Universe began to exist C Therefore the Universe began to exist

I have to congratulate Alex. Asking the right questions and, as Dr Craig said, raising the bar a lot. If all conversations where like this, imagine how different our world would be.

@bestsongsever841

Жыл бұрын

He was mocking him for raising the bar for atheists.

@joemahony4198

Жыл бұрын

@Jørgen Storm And the level goes down to the Hitchens level of name calling, non answer, and diversion

@ob2249

Жыл бұрын

@@joemahony4198 thats a very em0ti0naI resp0nse j0ey and surprising, t00 m0st 0f his 0pp0nents had a very high 0pini0n 0f hitchens integrity and articuIateness it was aIs0 a very irrati0naI resp0nse t00 j0ey hitchens was n`t part 0f this debate yet he manages t0 trigger y0u fr0m bey0nd the grave as it were where were y0u hurt j0ey? did the nasty man p0ke fun at y0ur imaginary friend ? at an entireIy different event ??!!!

@electrical_cord

11 ай бұрын

@jrgenstorm6536 LOL I'd like to see you debate William Lane Craig about this "low-IQ" subject matter.

@dm_1236

9 ай бұрын

@jrgenstorm6536the defensive snowflake nature of Atheists reveals itself

"Joined today by William Craig, who has famously debated God." Damn, I need to get that video!

@RTSOB1

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Talk about begging the question....

@loriweatherford9471

3 жыл бұрын

Oh come now! Put yourself in front of a camera and a microphone and let's make sure every word comes out correctly. He did correct himself after all.

@sotem3608

3 жыл бұрын

@@loriweatherford9471 I believe it wasn't an attack, but merely a point of laugh. Might well be that Alex will laugh about this himself, because the idea of this debate happening is funny.

@kathyheyne8610

3 жыл бұрын

I heard it that way, too, Jerry. 🙂

@johnorth5945

3 жыл бұрын

Flamer Lamer well then Nietzsche is right. God is dead

Great interview, Alex! You’re very sharp.

@gonzalezm244

4 жыл бұрын

It’s so cool that you and Alex can differ on something as profound as God’s existence and be so supportive of one another

@jacobhubbard617

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Cameron, how is the debate with RR going to be released and how often

@CapturingChristianity

4 жыл бұрын

I consider Alex and I good friends at this point :)

@gonzalezm244

4 жыл бұрын

Capturing Christianity I hope this kind of relationship will become more common among people of opposing views

@historiaparacristianos5401

4 жыл бұрын

@@CapturingChristianity I'm Your Fan ! ^^

This is such an intelligent, respectful conversation so obviously aimed at extending one’s own intellect and not to win a debate. What a world we’d have, if we could all converse in such a way with people who we disagree with. Beautiful

I loved this conversation! It was not a clashing of ideas and spewing of rhetoric, but a thought provoking exploration of the atheistic and theistic worldview. I'm very grateful for this clean, respectful and open-minded discussion. More of this please!

This is how discourse should be. Both sides respectful and willing to listen.

@paulroy1903

3 жыл бұрын

I agree im a Christian i have always felt that Christians and atheist can disagree without someone being the dummy 2 people who are equally intelligent can have 2 opposing world views and not insult each other

@shin-ishikiri-no

3 жыл бұрын

Problem is most people equate respectfulness with correctness... Which is even more idiotic. One true indicator of an NPC is how much the WAY something was said influences their beliefs, rather that WHAT was said.

@MoNomore

3 жыл бұрын

This discourse is so different from muslims ones.. Its not fair

@n00b4evr

3 жыл бұрын

The crusty old shithead has been doing this for too long to be willing to listen, because when you truly are then you're willing to change when presented with better ideas.

@doublehockeystix

3 жыл бұрын

@@n00b4evr it seems to me that you wouldn’t be capable of conducting yourself in the manner presented by both men in this video. your attempt at discrediting him by name calling is hyper-cringe.

This is the single best discussion I've ever seen between a Christian and a skeptic. Well done.

@AmayzinOne

4 жыл бұрын

Alex will become Christian

@ehtishamamin5601

4 жыл бұрын

@@AmayzinOne No he will become Muslim.

@Bowl01986

4 жыл бұрын

@Apex lol, definitely not.

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

@@AmayzinOne I really hope so.

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

@@ehtishamamin5601 No, Alex is way too intelligent for that. There are far too many inconsistencies, hypocrisies, inaccuracies and human rights violations for that to ever be possible for such an astute mind.

I always come back to this podcast episode atleast once a year. this is definitely one of the best conversations on youtube

@MrPeaceGuy54

7 ай бұрын

Agreed!

Its great to hear a respectful dialogue. Thanks for having Bill on and thoughtfully engaging him.

Still an atheist but found a new respect for Dr Craig. I do like his approach and I gained a better understanding of his cosmological argument. So thank you both.

@pidayrocks2235

2 жыл бұрын

Something I think they both missed as it relates to the first premise is that we don’t actually have any examples of anything “beginning to exist” in the way that they mean it (i.e. In the way that the universe would have “began to exist”). These are two very different concepts of “begin” and to use our observance of one to make claims of the other is a horrible conflation. Everything that we know of that “comes into existence” is actually just matter and energy changing forms. When it comes to the universe/cosmos “beginning”, that would be separate from all other “beginnings” we could possibly imagine because instead of matter/energy changing forms, we’re talking about matter/energy originating. So when the first premise says that “everything that begins to exist has a cause” - what that really means in every situation we know if is: “everything that changes from one state of matter/energy to another has a cause”… and that’s no longer applicable to any supposed origin of the cosmos (I.e. origin of energy/matter itself). It’s all one big conflation in the part of Craig and theists.

@pidayrocks2235

2 жыл бұрын

Turns out I missed the part they talked about this 😅

@mtom2237

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not his argument. It’s a Muslim argument modified for Christians. Dr. Craig is intellectually honest enough to attribute it to its sources. He kept the Arabic word Kalam. He’s also a real philosopher unlike the new atheists who have no real training in theology, logic other than inductive, or philosophy.

@freddan6fly

2 жыл бұрын

@@mtom2237 WLC is also scientifically illiterate and talk about the start of the universe from personal incredulity. He might be civil but he is wrong.

@Dragonblaster1

2 жыл бұрын

I have never disliked Bill Craig, I have always had an issue with the Olympian leap from "a cause for the universe's origin" to "a transcendental, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, personal creator that cares about human beings." I, too, appreciate this courteous, respectful dialogue between two intelligent, well-educated men with opposing viewpoints.

True Skepticism. Open minded. Listening to arguments in full. Probing without provoking. Staying on topic. Rational. Love it!

@cliveadams7629

4 жыл бұрын

I find it difficult to accept WLC as rational.

@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065

4 жыл бұрын

@@cliveadams7629 he is rational, you may disagree with him but that doesn't make him irrational just because you disagree, I think your statement is irrational.

@hegyak

4 жыл бұрын

@@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065 I have heard WLC use Fallacious arugments. Fallacies of argumentation does not make you Rational. It makes you irrational. God is, according to WLC, Special Pleading.

@cliveadams7629

4 жыл бұрын

@@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065 Sady you are wrong. He feels Jesus in his heart, he has no interest in evidence or the lack of it. That's the whole basis of his belief and his work. That's not rational. 15-love to me I think. Your serve.

@alexandertaylor7316

4 жыл бұрын

@@cliveadams7629 Yeah my impression of Craig has always been of someone of high intelligence reverse engineering arguments from a position he has essentially been brainwashed into.

I am deeply impressed by this discussion, and I have to say Dr. Craig gained a lot of respect in my eyes. I've been familiar with him for a long time due to his big-time debates with Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Lawrence Krauss, Sean Carroll and other atheists, and I've always viewed him as a faux intellectual repetitor of pre-learned talking points masked as arguments. Alex here brought out the best of him. He actually engaged with the argument on serious philosophical grounds and Dr. Craig clearly engages back, not just regurgitates talking points like I thought he would. It was an inspiring discussion, I am truly impressed by both of these men.

@notjonniecandito7224

11 ай бұрын

I have to say, if you thought Craig was a faux intellectual, I think you need to access how deep your bias is against Christians. Of all things Craig could be, one thing he absolutely clear is NOT, is a faux intellectual. I find it fascinating how people try to undercut credibility with such a scathing assumption. You could find him boring, uncompelling, incorrect, etc. Faux intellectual is just a wildly wrong take for someone as deeply educated as Craig. Even if this video was uncompelling, you should still see that.

@MrMoekanz

7 ай бұрын

It would be hard to not be drawn into the mire with Dawkins or Hitchens. They’re hardly the beaming light of reason or intellectual authenticity.

@appledough3843

6 ай бұрын

@@notjonniecandito7224 I was thinking the same thing when reading his comment. How biased do you have to be to ever even believe that WLC was a faux intellectual. Such a strong bias against Christianity blinds them so much and they don't even see it, unironically so.

@HIIIBEAR

6 ай бұрын

@@notjonniecandito7224no, we heard him speak and reject evidence to that contradicted his position. You are just as uncharitable to the listeners as you believe they are to Craig.

@bootesvoidsound

4 ай бұрын

I couldn't agree more with your comment! I felt exactly the same about Craig before watching/listening to this and this changed my opinion of him substantially and I like that!

One of the most constructive and thoughtful conversations on this topic I've watched so far! Thanks so much!

I've got MAD respect for Cosmic Skeptic now. This was such a civil, thorough, and direct debate that I don't even want to call it a debate. It was a productive discussion and I appreciate it so much.

@JM-us3fr

4 жыл бұрын

I agree

@mariaangelova8275

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It was an intellectual discussion. 🙌👏👍

@e4r281

4 жыл бұрын

Actually, that's exactly what I call a debate. The events where speakers are arrogant and use an incredible amount of fallacious arguments, interrupt each other, raise their voices, etc, aren't debates imho.

@mariaangelova8275

4 жыл бұрын

@@e4r281 Actually, you have a good point there. 👍

@SelcraigClimbs

4 жыл бұрын

@@e4r281 yeah that's a small point that, on a very minor level, got on my nerves. Debate has a negative connotation that seems identical with the colloquial "argument", but that is simply not the case. A civil exchange of ideas and epistemology with a sincere intent to understand the opposing interlocutor is *exactly* what a debate is

This felt like a student talking to his professor. Student challenging his professor and the professor not insulting his student but trying to help build him up. Very enjoyable.

@ztrinx1

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. Alex is a very patient professor and actually wants his student to understand, doing everything he can to help and build him up.

@ruperthutton551

3 жыл бұрын

It would certainly be the other way round! Alex’s arguments are far more reasonable and logical than nearly all of Craig’s pitiful ejaculations.

@mustafarehman1580

3 жыл бұрын

@@ruperthutton551 I don't know why you are being extremely biased even Alex would disagree, Dr Craig's Arguments were far more better and rational

@mustafarehman1580

3 жыл бұрын

@@ruperthutton551 His Argument in the come down to May be the Universe have this proper of coming into existence from nothing, I still don't understand How can one make sense of it. A thing which was not in existence before had a property to come into existence without any cause or from nothing, If you a 0.00000001 percent of the common sense of a common person you better reject this right away this is non sensical, Alex tried hard for it make sense, His Arguments at best I can call sophistry

@greatunwashed9116

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, Alex is a very impressive proffessor. Craig is a very disapointing student.

One of the best videos I've ever listened to. Simulating in content and implication it sets a prescient for how productive and genuine a conversation can be! It genuinely gave me the chills when I got to the end More more more! would you consider analysing the set up, how much research you did, the attitudes and preconception that you feel helped make it a great conversation.

I am an atheist, and I am happily watching many more dr Craig's videos, and I would encourage Christians to give dr. Craig a listen. This video was incredibly respectful and the topic was well discussed. We need to be made aware of, appreciate and seek to understand all kinds of different points of view in order to find Truth in this world. Thanks Alex and Mr. Craig!

@ramzichouk4080

2 жыл бұрын

If you were interested in truth you would've accepted Islam already

@meusisto

2 жыл бұрын

@@ramzichouk4080 Do you know Thomas Alexander channel?

@ramzichouk4080

2 жыл бұрын

@@meusisto Islam existed before his channel and no i don't listen to hypocrites , if you want to learn mathematics you go to a mathematician not a pastry chef .

@meusisto

2 жыл бұрын

@@ramzichouk4080 Just go away, coward.

@UniteAgainstEvil

Жыл бұрын

@@ramzichouk4080 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂

Even the comment section is civil in this video. As a christian, I am subscribing.

@kylexinye1990

3 жыл бұрын

@Moe Gibbs Sadly at the time he was right. Initially it was a very non violent video section. Now though ...

@josephsack4918

3 жыл бұрын

@@kylexinye1990 hm?

@kylexinye1990

3 жыл бұрын

@Moe Gibbs Yeah ... :(

@jayvis123111

3 жыл бұрын

Just wanted to check in and ask how you're doing. Get to check out any of Alex's other videos? Maybe have a channel either theist or non-theist that you'd recommend?

@joshs2986

3 жыл бұрын

@@jayvis123111 I find the unbelievable KZread channel great for discussion. The KZread channel cross examined by Frank turek good. But probs not for comment section

You will never know what this original comment was

@richardgamrat1944

4 жыл бұрын

Impersonal, just like the cause of the universe

@pulse2781

4 жыл бұрын

@J D You're right about not peacefully, but I believe you can respectfully and rationally disagree with their arguments and use your justifications as the reason for preventing any implementation of their views, which most likely would be a forceful action as most Neo-nazis don't stand down in the face of reason

@RenewedRS

4 жыл бұрын

Well not really though. Firstly I wouldn't say it was impersonal. Also don't forget that everything in the video is on the atheist's terms. He framed the questions, even setting up answers to push WLC in a certain direction just so he could use the lines that he had practiced in response.. It did seem cordial but it wasn't a free-flowing conversation like I would like.

@jtveg

4 жыл бұрын

No, WLC should be ridiculed for his real epistemology while claiming that the Kalam is what should convince others. He should be ridiculed that he thinks it is rational to believe that a feeling in his "heart" is the presence of the "holy spirit" when it is nothing more than an emotional reaction to indoctrination bias and superstition. There is no good reason to accept that it is one god over any other or a demon or an evil god etc... To conclude that it must be Jesus is wholly irrational.

@RisenSlash

4 жыл бұрын

There's a video on respecting beliefs by TheraminTrees that argues you are in no way obligated to respect certain kinds of belief. I can't do it justice here, worth a watch

One thing I've always admired about WLC is his stated desire to hear his interviewer/debate partner's best questions/arguments, and if needed even help present them in their strongest form. And I'd argue you can see that commitment here at points, where WLC carefully parses what he is arguing for or against. Great job - much respect for you both.

This is one of the best discussions on Kalam I've ever seen. So well done. Kudos, Alex and Craig.

One of the best discussions I've seen between an atheist and William Lane Craig. Because both parties were really listening to each other and formulating their points accordingly. Very insightful.

@edpistemic

4 жыл бұрын

I agree! I would have had a more positive impression of his arguments if he had articulated them as well as he did here in the debates I have seen.

@tingowealeans5712

4 жыл бұрын

agreed, it seemed to take WLC a while to get the eventual point that Alex was trying to make re: category distinctions between fundemental particles and everything else in his radical miriad nihilist view (and implications of this for the use of inductive reasoning to support the premise 'everything that begins to exist has a cause') but Alex was continuously patient and provided responsive dialogue until it clicked for Craig and discussion could progress. And WLC continuously graciously schooling Alex saying 'here's where you're mistaken, kid!' Defo one of the most enjoyable vids of this kind I've seen too.

@tingowealeans5712

4 жыл бұрын

@embrace reality hahaa

@madmartigan1634

3 жыл бұрын

It's rare in general to hear people who strongly disagree not talk past eachother. This is philosophy as a communication powertool!

@colinc892

3 жыл бұрын

@@tingowealeans5712 I don't think there was any "schooling" on either side. Craig made good points and articulated his position well. Alex asked good questions and raised some good objections, some of which I don't think Craig adequately addressed.

This disagreement was so healthy, I think I lost 5 pounds watching it.

@dirkcampbell

3 жыл бұрын

I laughed when I read that!

@Omar-nf1ki

3 жыл бұрын

lmao

@nataliamartin6816

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣👌

@jrfrom617

3 жыл бұрын

😂

@gregsmith9617

3 жыл бұрын

If all disagreements were so healthy, we could live forever. Potentially.

I just want to add how much I respect the way this was handled. I've been doing my own research on the Kalam and avoided this recommended video because I falsely assumed the kind of content it would be. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Here is a young guy trying to learn, educate, and entertain. You nailed all 3, dude.

This was one of the best discussions I've seen in a very long time. The way you went about discussing his argument was instructive in how I should go about assessing my own world view and beliefs. Thanks.

Wow. This was incredibly interesting. Watched Craig many times in debates but this was way more informative and thought provoking.

@ivanbenisscott

4 жыл бұрын

It’s only been published for 6 minutes 😂impressed that you’ve watched the whole thing ! (I agree it’s probably a great interview thought without even watcbing it)

@alexandertaylor7316

4 жыл бұрын

@@ivanbenisscott There's a clue in that this comment was 21 hours ago ;)

@nero2814

4 жыл бұрын

this guy is watching on 5x or something

@ivanbenisscott

4 жыл бұрын

Alexander Taylor didn’t the video just get published now tho? He has special access?

@noahpinheiro5685

4 жыл бұрын

@@ivanbenisscott Patrons have early acess

Nice! Really excited to watch this.

@Lunhanghal

4 жыл бұрын

Then let's gooo 😅

@bbhdd6181

4 жыл бұрын

would be interested to hear your take on it!

@JM-us3fr

4 жыл бұрын

If you can keep up, you won't be disappointed ;)

Magnificent. So much richer to explore the topic in this format. Thank you and bravo to both men. You both deserve the title "lover of wisdom".

Two dear, polite, sharp, intelligent, patient, clever and eloquent beings ❤ truly appreciate this! Thanks!

Wow, two people who disagree having a respectful and honest conversation. Seems unheard of today. This was fantastic! Long-form media rules.

@donatas85d

4 жыл бұрын

Peak Jvs only god is not absurd.

@Jozaaaa

4 жыл бұрын

Holy shit the amount of times I’ve seen this comment word for word is unbelievably fucking irritating

@mindburnjw

4 жыл бұрын

@Maaza Sana I think this Is pretty disingenuous..... his name has the literal word skeptic in it. How does it get more honest than that? Just because his skepticism is undesirable for some, it doesnt make it dishonest. Itd be dishonest if he called himself cosmetic truth with a capital T .

@stephanhirons3454

4 жыл бұрын

Lane Craig actually talks some kind of sense in the first fifteen minutes of this video.But then as usual he spends the rest of it talking complete and utter shite.Oh dear

@Domzdream

4 жыл бұрын

Yes but I do think it is easier for a youngster like Alex to go up against a heavy weight like Willy Craig. Less head-butting of egos. It is a great and positive advantage. For both really.

infinity war is the most ambitious crossover event in history Alex: hold my skepticism

@pawelstuglik4737

4 жыл бұрын

@Carl Williams Really?

@cturtleSSI

4 жыл бұрын

Carl Williams ... You are evil! I am a Christian and love Alex because he’s intelligent, fascinating, and respectful. If you truly “loved” nonChristians, you would realize that your relentless spamming of these comments is hideously vile and totally reprehensible 😡

@joshuaphilip7601

4 жыл бұрын

@@cturtleSSI disagree with your assessment. Even though I agree the spamming of a copy paste comment isn't the best way to get the gospel out. Even an atheist should realize he is trying to get the truth out right? Why would that be hideous and reprehensible?

@cthellis

4 жыл бұрын

Pawel Stuglik Carl is a weird form of spambot I’ve seen circulating about lately. Good into certain skeptical tubers’ comment sections, and replies to everyone in each thread with the same cut and paste thing. Saw it on an AntiCitizenX video from 11 mos ago (replying to one of my replies) I don’t get what the shtick is supposed it be good for. Probably will just get cleaned out by mods at some point.

Thanks for this discussion Alex. I loved it and it answered a lot of questions I had in mind. You asked very important and logical questions. I have to say Dr Craig answered those very well. Well done and thank you both.

What a wonderful discussion. Absolutely brilliant throughout. One hour and fifteen minutes seemed to fly by.

As a theist, I think the fact that William Lane Craig accepted to have a conversation in this channel speaks volumes of CosmicSkeptic. Craig has become very, VERY selective, with whom he accepts to have a public conversation with, and yet, he accepted to have one with Alex. Craig saw something special in him, and now we’ve all seen it. Alex is not in this debates looking for a fight, or to prove himself right, he’s honestly trying to question his own thoughts on the matter, he’s honestly seeking truth. We ALL could learn a lot from him.

@siegafan6607

4 жыл бұрын

He has debated the best of them around the world. He is a very busy scholar. Hes not very picky, stop smearing him. Keep on bootlicking alec and the atheists you weeaboo garbage

@geras.3813

4 жыл бұрын

Siega Fan March Forward Craig wasn’t very picky a few years ago, but he definitely is now. He’s said in multiple interviews he won’t debate anyone who isn’t a well known philosopher with a degree. Honestly, after watching a few debates that include people who do not have a degree in philosophy, I don’t blame him. On most occasions this folks are incapable of having a serious argument.

@jonkeene8788

4 жыл бұрын

Actually Dr. Craig has accepted lots of offers for online interviews recently, with the need for social distancing and all. The monthly report from Reasonable Faith that came out almost a month ago is titled, "LOADS of New Interviews with Dr. Craig." He's come to like that mode of communication for multiple reasons. But as far as Alex O'Conner goes, I do like him as well, which says a lot given that I'm also a theist (a Christian).

@geras.3813

4 жыл бұрын

Jon Keene Yeah, but as far as I know, most (if not all) of the other conversations he’s been having recently are with either, other christians like himself (in which case they are more akin to an interview than a debate) or with highly renowned philosophers/scholars. Alex is special in the sense that he’s an atheist with whom he’s (kind of) having a debate despite him being merely a laymen. (Yes, I know Alex is getting a degree in philosophy, but he’s not done with it yet, and even if he were, he would still be miles away from having the recognition as a philosopher that Craig usually demands).

@jonkeene8788

4 жыл бұрын

@@geras.3813 Yeah I haven't actually looked into many of those interviews so I can't speak to that. Honestly as I've been watching this interview I've also been really impressed with Alex O'Connor for the same reason as what you're giving. Someone else said that he's only 21?

As an elderly committed Christian, I thoroughly enjoyed watching this debate. Mainly because I was pleasantly surprised how polite the discussion was. Respect! I am a humble carpenter, who is finding the whole world of philosophy extremely challenging. But this video was so helpful in helping inch towards a better understanding. Thanks you!

@Berjayacair

2 жыл бұрын

Polite and civilised discussion 😊

@mhakoyMD

2 жыл бұрын

More of a discussion than an actuable debate with rebuttals.

@brandonman1315

2 жыл бұрын

@@mhakoyMD In the scheme of life, there isn’t a debate to have. Evidence and proof reign supreme. Atheists have it, theists don’t.

@Macro_Abuser

2 жыл бұрын

@@brandonman1315 atheists have proof?

@jerardosc9534

2 жыл бұрын

@@Macro_Abuser Theres a reason why atheist try to run away as fast as possible from the “burden of proof”

It worries me how such a normal discussion is so hyped in the comments as being overly civil. Savagery has become the norm

@ashley_brown6106

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed

@lasagnainthehouse1276

2 жыл бұрын

worry on deez nuts

@VolrinSeth

2 жыл бұрын

Given WLC history of dishonesty and lack intellectual integrity, it's not strange that people hype this as a polite conversation.

@lennoxwasbest7587

Жыл бұрын

What a brilliant reply. Such a normal exchange of ideas and questions. Yet it seems insanely polite in this age of "he owned /destroyed so and so in debate"

@tonyschumacher-jones1540

Жыл бұрын

As an atheist, I am now not opposed to the idea that a being described by WLC could theoretically exist. But then, in a sense, the really hard part begins for those who call themselves Christian. That is, trying to build a case for JC being in some way related. At the least does this mean I am now not an atheist?

This Lovecraftian being Mr Craig talks about is way cooler than the one I was taught about as a kid.

@insertoyouroemail

Жыл бұрын

@Yizzy Roger !!!!!!!!!!

@fs7645

Жыл бұрын

Art imitates reality

@paulbaumer4037

11 ай бұрын

* Dr. Craig

"... has famously debated God ..." oh boi

@CosmicSkeptic

4 жыл бұрын

Been trying to get him on the podcast too but he won't respond to my emails

@redmatrixx

4 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicSkeptic 😂😂😂 good one.

@rojh9351

4 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicSkeptic Ever since that incident with the Babel Fish, God has been avoiding logical arguments.

@colejames423

4 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicSkeptic - I know a lot of his friends, I'll have them put in a word with the Big Guy for you.

@MJKagone

4 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicSkeptic Surely Hitchens has been tearing into him for the last nine years.

Alex, your content is genuinely thoughtful and thought-provoking, and it's clear that you're earning a lot of respect for it. It's absolutely amazing how you continue to pull heavy hitters from every side of the issues you're interested in as guests for your podcast. Keep up the awesome work!

@anujnanagaraj5615

4 жыл бұрын

I wanted to like this comment, but it is now a beautiful "88", I did not want to ruin that! So I am going to comment "Like"!! :D

@FiryPhnx

4 жыл бұрын

I was wondering about this, actually. It seems to my vague recollection that WLC has stated he will not debate others if they aren't properly credentialed. I'm sure he meant in more formal settings when he said it. Then the thought occurred to me that all his formal events have been canceled and he's stuck at home like the rest of us. Maybe Coronavirus has given us the gift of making heavy hitters more accessible to the common man?

@joelhenderson3723

4 жыл бұрын

@@FiryPhnx I'm sure that's part of it, but I don't think he would have sat down for this conversation with someone like Matt dillahunty even under the present conditions of the world.

@FiryPhnx

4 жыл бұрын

@@joelhenderson3723 Agreed. It is certainly a multi-faceted consideration.

@pursaveer9027

4 жыл бұрын

Like Joel said :)

Our modern-day politicians could learn much by watching these two men intellectually joust with the utmost dignity and respect for each other. Well done, gentlemen.

Well Alex, you had your brains and hands full dealing with Craig. Solid answers to your questions all throughout. Watched the whole thing - that was really good.

I love how these guys restate what they believe the other person means and wait for confirmation or clarification before they continue with their own points. This conversation style ought to be to “gold standard” for dialogue. Thank you both for such a wonderful conversation!

@Reggie1408

4 жыл бұрын

So you're saying this conversation is proof of UPB? ;D

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

It is a blueprint for intelligent discussion and meaningful discourse. It's a pity debates are not structured this way. Rather than a discussion of the truth and the facts it becomes a war of intellects and a win at all costs mentality often defeating the purpose of even having a discussion in the first place.

@thealchemistdaughter3405

4 жыл бұрын

At one time in the U.K. the structures of debate were taught in schools.. That was long ago.. we are now reaping the consequences of denying this skill to our youth..

@Locutus.Borg.

4 жыл бұрын

@@thealchemistdaughter3405 The same here in Australia unfortunately.

@einyv

4 жыл бұрын

​@pan-islamist turk. Humans are apes so yes. No evidence we are intelligently designed. If we were, there are so many ways we could have been designed better for this planet. ability to breathe in water considering majority of planet is water. Resistant to the harmful UV rays. Better eye sight. So many more things could be designed better not to breakdown. If your god was a real designer it would have been fired.

As a Christian I’ve always loved WLC, but when it comes to the atheist community - Alex is class. I enjoyed this.

@rationalsceptic7634

3 жыл бұрын

According to Quantum mechanics,the sources of information are random and Indeterminate ..the laws we discover are merely relational correlations..therefore no underlying structure can be found..no chain of causation,divine or otherwise exists...so Craig claims are lies,fallacies and unscientific..

@PacAnimal

3 жыл бұрын

Good to see WLC not get to complain that the opponents opening didn't address his own opening for a change. He always does that, as if he has no idea what a rebuttal is for, and it annoys me to no end.

@FakeCheeseCake

3 жыл бұрын

William Lane Craig is an incredibly dishonest person. People who believe what he says will believe just about anything.

@internetenjoyer1044

3 жыл бұрын

@@FakeCheeseCake You don't have to beleive what he says, his arguments are his arguments and there right there in front of you

@Roper122

3 жыл бұрын

As a atheist I’ve never liked WLC, but when it comes to the atheist community - Alex is class

Seems to me that whether it's a horse or a universe, if it comes out of nothing then it forms a dimensional space that could only be called a universe. In that case I can see where you were coming from that if things pop into existence out of nothing all the time they would necessarily be a new space in and of themselves, not forming within our space which is already filled with a dimensional something. But then, what is the meaning of nothing once you add an attribute by saying "it's somewhere other than here". I think by granting that one attribute which would disallow things from popping into existence in intersection with our own universe it redefines what nothing is.

@carrionsoul9515

Жыл бұрын

A good definition for nothing would be a space absent of material. Such spaces could and may exist in and outside of the material universe. Describing such spaces only makes them something in a sense of the word. In actuality those spaces or voids contain nothing.

@Nighthawkinlight

Жыл бұрын

@@carrionsoul9515 No, that's not a good definition. Any dimensionality requires the existence of complex physics. True nothingness is 0 dimensional, it has no height nor depth nor width, and no experience of time. If it had any of those things it would not be nothing.

@carrionsoul9515

Жыл бұрын

The dimensionality comes from the material. The void itself has no dimensions.

@Nighthawkinlight

Жыл бұрын

@@carrionsoul9515 A void is a space without anything in it, and a "space" is defined by its dimensions. A void without dimensions is a self contradicting idea.

@carrionsoul9515

Жыл бұрын

@@Nighthawkinlight Exactly. The dimensionality is a property given by and of the material amongst the void. Not the void itself.

This type of discourse has to be the most productive I've seen regarding these questions. You can learn a lot from both perspectives without wasting time interrupting and yelling at one another.

I will say this: you have no idea how refreshing it is to see "discussing" the Kalam rather than "debating" or "debunking". From all appearances, Cosmic Skeptic is a genuine truth seeker, and I have immense respect for that. I hope he indeed finds it.

@CMVMic

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe he has already

@garyavey7929

4 жыл бұрын

Isaiah 40:26 “Lift up your eyes to heaven and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who brings out their army by number; He calls them all by name. Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power, Not one of them is missing. Isn,t it nice to have something to look forward to Revelation 21:3,4 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” If you want more information contact me or www.jw.org Take care Gary

@sycofreake1

4 жыл бұрын

@@garyavey7929 "....then the talking animal said..." aaaaaaaaand it's a fairy tale. Try Harry Potter. At least it's well written. Less people using a couple hundred foxes to burn down a field rather than, you know, a torch.

@garyavey7929

4 жыл бұрын

@@sycofreake1 Jehovah and Satan have used an animal Like a ventriloquist uses a dummy to speak to people.What is wrong with using foxes to burn a crop 21 Judge Samson (13:1-16:31). Once again Israel falls captive to the Philistines. This time it is Samson whom Jehovah raises up as judge. His parents devote him as a Nazirite from birth, and this requires that no razor shall ever come upon his hair. As he grows up, Jehovah blesses him, and ‘in time Jehovah’s spirit starts to impel him.’ (13:25) The secret of his strength lies, not in human muscle, but in power supplied by Jehovah. It is when ‘Jehovah’s spirit becomes operative upon him’ that he is empowered to slay a lion with his bare hands and later to repay Philistine treachery by striking down 30 of their number. (14:6, 19) As the Philistines continue to act treacherously in connection with Samson’s betrothal to a Philistine girl, Samson takes 300 foxes and, turning them tail to tail, puts torches between their tails and sends them out to burn the grainfields, vineyards, and olive groves of the Philistines. Then he accomplishes a great slaughter of the Philistines, “piling legs upon thighs.” (15:8) The Philistines persuade his fellow Israelites, men of Judah, to bind Samson and deliver him to them, but again ‘Jehovah’s spirit becomes operative upon him,’ and his fetters melt, as it were, from off his hands. Samson strikes down a thousand Philistines-“one heap, two heaps!” (15:14-16) His weapon of destruction? The moist jawbone of an ass. Jehovah refreshes his exhausted servant by causing a miraculous spring of water to break forth at the scene of battle. 22 Samson next lodges a night at a prostitute Jehovah can use whatever he wants to bring about judgement on other nations.

@ichsehsanders

4 жыл бұрын

The Truth you already know?

This wasn’t a debate. It was a discussion and I mean that as a complement. Both sides are really listening to each other in an honest open minded and civil way and trying to hash out a dialectic and reason with one another, rather than simply trying to disprove or convince the other. Hats off to you for putting this dialogue together.

@misuapolozan3523

3 жыл бұрын

Well, the title says that it is a discussion, not a debate

I'm a Christian. I must say Alex is such a great interviewer. This should be a model of conversations on this subject.

Both Alex and Dr. Craig brought their absolute highest A game for this conversation. Very great video, many provoking thoughts on both sides, and civil dialogue through and through.

I never thought I would see such a pleasant, respectful comment section on a video with a theist and an atheist discussing their contradictory viewpoints, Alex has really built something impressive here, congratulations.

@knightmarefuel4499

3 жыл бұрын

That’s because 9/10 the atheist argues from a position of emotion which never work when ironically the atheist claims superior intellect yet cannot defeat the argument of God with intellect 🤣

@colinc892

3 жыл бұрын

@@knightmarefuel4499 both sides do that

@jmarch_503

3 жыл бұрын

No

@peaceandlove1255

3 жыл бұрын

@@knightmarefuel4499 as a Christian, you ruined it

@knightmarefuel4499

3 жыл бұрын

@@colinc892 only one side can be right. Either God exists or he doesn’t. And the only portion of my comment which could be attributed to Christians would be arguing from an emotional state. Not sure the point of doing that since the purpose of my comment was to highlight the ironic position of the atheist. God can be easily defended with science and logic, there is no logical scientifically solid argument against the existence of God. Because to insinuate the absence of a creator leaves way for chaos, no purpose, no objective morals etc. existence is merely an accident with an expiration date. The gaps in evolution along with the errors of the Big Bang theory are laughable. The math as well doesn’t support it. As to the person who accused me of “ruining” it, I simply stated facts.

I’m a Christian and I watched this on Dr. Craig’s channel. That being said I want to give extreme respect to Alex. I so appreciate the polite and humble approach. You are a true scholar! I learned a lot from this and can say after viewing that I have a new appreciation that atheism can be a very intellectual approach.

@randopedia1

3 жыл бұрын

As an agnostic-atheist, I can honestly say I got the exact same feeling the first time I watched WLC’s discussion with Roger Penrose (which is great if you haven’t seen it already). Personally, I find militant atheism and young earth creationism two sides of the same coin, and the face on the coin is ignorance. The sooner both sides disappear the better, IMO. Extremism rarely ends well...

@tommore3263

2 жыл бұрын

@@randopedia1 The two fundamentalist groups. Agreed.

@patrickthomas2119

2 жыл бұрын

@@randopedia1 "I find militant atheism and young earth creationism two sides of the same coin" This is exactly correct. The similarities are immense with one big difference; YEC's deny the scientific information while Militant atheists (what I call average online atheists, AOAs) try to use obscured and misrepresented science to 'prove atheism' true or superior. Often times this is a result of ignorance of the actual scientific data (and how inconclusive a lot of it is) combined with delusions of intellectual superiority. They often are imagining they are smarter, more rational and more objective than Christians (specifically). You can see this with KZreadrs like Rationality Rules and the like (Cosmicskeptic is one of the few humble and fair atheist channels I have seen, although Genetically modified skeptic has chilled out a lot in the last years). There is a real danger in the AOA's approach that I think is actually more harmful than fundamental christianity. that is because they are unaware and unwilling to internalize their biases (you are far more likely to lose all semblance of objectivity if you can't admit your biases). Christians are usually fully aware and admit they are bias and have basically embraced it as "okay" (which is harmful as well but IMO not as harmful). Also the way the AOA misrepresents science bastardizes it and turns it into a 'religious like' phenomenon that is to be believed. This is harmful to the scientific method. Additional Note: I wanted to add; that militant athiest have not ALWAYS been the more harmful group and it doesn't mean they always will be. In the 90's through about the mid 2000's it was fundamental Christians that were almost certainly more harmful. But the militant atheists gained momentum in the last 10 to 15 years and are not more aggressive and confident. But I also see fundamentalists religions gaining momentum back in response to the aggressiveness. As you point out, this will not likely end well for anyone; included those of us trying to have intellectually honest conversations about these topics and cordially disagree with each other without villainizing the other side.

@timeup2549

2 жыл бұрын

@@randopedia1 Militant atheism and thinking the Earth is 5k years old are the same thing? Don't be ridiculous.

@timeup2549

2 жыл бұрын

Atheism is the ONLY intellectual approach. That is why most philosophers and scientists at top institutions nowadays are atheists. Religion is ridiculous. If you were born and raised in Saudi Arabia you would believe in Mohammed and think that Jesus was never crucified. Do you realise that?

Honestly, this changed my mind on WLC, very knowledgeable and generous, I absolutely love these kinds of conversation absent of name calling, pandering to audiences, etc.

THANK YOU.... for such a pleasant experience!!!!!!!!

Gotta say, my favorite philosopher, favorite argument, and favorite KZread atheist, all in one video. Would be easy to be disappointed with such high expectations, but I thought the convo was great. Thanks for the respectful and thoughtful conversation. (Edit: Alex, sorry, I forgot to say, to your point about universes having a property that allows them to come into existence, I don’t know if Craig articulated it well, but the point is that prior to its existence, the universe (and anything else) has no properties, because prior to its existence, it isn't really anything; it's nothing. Therefore there can't be constraints on a thing that doesn't exist because there isn't anything to constrain. And by time it comes into existence, it’s too late because it already exists. So that’s why it wouldn’t work to allow things other than universes to begin to exist inexplicably). Hope that makes sense.

@WillEhrendreich

4 жыл бұрын

No lie, John, I just told my little girl that exact thing like 20 mins ago! Lol

@japexican007

4 жыл бұрын

The what do you meme guy is also pretty good at debating his beliefs :)

@nicolab2075

4 жыл бұрын

I think this point was made in the debate...

@WillEhrendreich

4 жыл бұрын

@Carl Williams actually I'm a Christian, brother! So, thank you for sharing the Gospel, but I am already following Jesus as well!

@richardgamrat1944

4 жыл бұрын

Properties of universe could exist as abstract objects even before time.

I love how you are both willing to entertain each others idea's without necessarily accepting it. That is true open mindedness right there.

@unit0033

4 жыл бұрын

is craig openminded to his god not existing!

This is heartwarming man. No barking. No rudeness. People of different beliefs peacefully talking. The amount of hate and heat i've seen in debates btwn us and atheists is sad to see. I hope everyone can communicate like this. Btw is atheism a belief? if not sorry bout the 2nd sentence

A lot of what was discussed twisted my brain into a pretzel. But, What I was taken with was the respectful, rich and intelligent conversation, and the fashion in which they dialogued. This is a blueprint for how things should be done moving forwards in this clashing world of ours. Beautifully done!

@realbrickwalls

2 ай бұрын

It's because they both entered into apriori reasoning, which is the only conceptual domain in which questions of ultimacy could *theoretically* be resolved one way or another. It does away with the preliminary framework of assessment (a "fore-structure" as Heidegger termed it) which both "theists" (including creationists) and "atheists" uncritically adopted in the GWOT-tea party-gay-marriage-teach-the-controversy era. This framework could be identified with what Taleb (before he went nuts) called "naive empiricism", where facticity is employed to obscure rather than illuminate not only reality (whatever that is), but some of realities mankind encounters in grappling with reality. These were the questions which preoccupied 18th century German philosophy, culminating in Kant's critique of pure reason. Craig is an intellectual mediocrity, but unlike the autodidactic "freethinkers" (a euphemism for a lack of rigor), he has a substantive and systematic grasp of the intellectual landscape and the conceptual history of each position and it's implications. That's why he can wrong foot amateur-hour atheist polemics, however brilliantly they may be formulated. This allows him to make subtle adjustments across a network of ramifications known only to him (for example, by tweaking the Kalam so it favours the Christian conception of a personal-infinite deity as opposed to a generic personal infinite deity).

Alex is charming and an excellent interviewer with a very consistent and thought provoking level of probing. Great job.

@Davisme1

4 жыл бұрын

There aren’t much atheist KZreadrs like him

@megazine

4 жыл бұрын

Davis John Rationality Rules is another

@peterpehlivan157

4 жыл бұрын

People like Alex are very rare. His way of arguing and discussing is like dissecting the other person's worldview as if he were a careful surgeon. That's how you know you're dealing with a proper philosopher, a lover of wisdom.

@urbanitecrusher5709

4 жыл бұрын

Alex comes from a Catholic background. Most atheists are Anglos and Jews.

@rickb.4168

4 жыл бұрын

Traditional Christian Of course he is, because he’s English. Just like God! 😀

WLC: 36:10 "Now immediately, people will think about quantum indeterminacy" Me: *thinks about food*

@DerAltruist

3 жыл бұрын

You made me laugh

@merikijiya13

3 жыл бұрын

I’m thinking subway sandwich

@isaacyip1998

3 жыл бұрын

@Amirus Maybe you're just dumb no offence

@jackparker8759

3 жыл бұрын

@Amirus He is smart...

@jackparker8759

3 жыл бұрын

@Amirus I don't agree with Craig on a lot of things, but I'd say that anyone with two PhD's is smart.

Alex, your careful reasoning and respect for your interlocutor is bread to the hungry. Having listened to hours of Craig's debates I can say this was the most elucidating I've ever heard. Thank you for for your willingness and ability to get into the weeds.

@filmeseverin

2 жыл бұрын

Atheists are in error regarding the most important truth: God/Jesus I have been an atheist (due to the atheistic education under the communist regime) until the vision received. Few years before the vision, while still being an atheist, I had a NDE. I had an out of body experience when my heart has stopped for more minutes, in the emergency room of the hospital: at 18 years old, after a saint life, without bad addictions, being a virgin (no sexual involvement until that moment, just platonic), and generally suffering evil from others but not hurting others etc.) when I had my heart stopped in the hospital and my spirit was leaving my body (I raised floating horizontally at about one meter above my dead body, in an infinite happiness that I did not know that exists, and when I was trying to communicate with the nurse next to my bed she was just looking down very sadly, at my dead face, not answering to me, actually not hearing me, while being invisible for her and the other patients from the intensive care room). Then, after that wonderful (extreme happiness) short period of time spent outside of my body (saying continuously loudly about how immense wonderful happiness I feel, but nobody was hearing me), I went down slowly, with the same exact speed, to (into) my body and was back alive. Anyone can read below, explained in details, how I became a believer of the truth, a Christian: It happened in the first year as a college student. I was an atheist at that time and before, but when I made my girlfriend (actual wife) cry, due to a contradictory discussion about God/Jesus, loving her very much, I ASKED TO GIVE ME A SIGN TO BELIEVE, addressing this from all my soul and from all my heart (it was like "God, if you exist, give me a sign to believe in you"), then, in few days, when I had already forgotten about my demand, I had the vision (please forgive my English, while it is not my native language): I was like teleported outdoors in complete dark, feeling the wind blowing slowly, and while worrying where I am, and how could be possible such phenomenon, a sphere of light came slowly from the left (later I realized that it came from the house in which I was born, the house of my grandfather, who was a priest, being dead at that moment), and faster while approaching of me, when I was able to recognize the exact place where I was, due to the reflection of light on the houses on one side and another of the road, being in the middle of the street, quite close to the house where I was born (in a small village). The sphere of light was very bright (the whitest white), diffusing lightly on edges, and in the moment when it touched me, it became like an usual white, decreasing its brightness, as (like) it was defiled by me. When that sphere of light was coming, I remembered my demand (my words: TO GIVE ME A SIGN TO BELIEVE), and I realized that I can do nothing to escape from that situation (I felt that we people are very small and weak, infinitely more than we realize, against what exists beyond us). All the time, being inside that light I felt it more like a fluid (it was not an usual light). After few moments, surrounded by that sphere of light (due to my emotions that have risen dramatically, I was standing up on my toes), I felt it going slowly up, tilting my head up, very kindly, by two very gentle hands (like angelic hands), then going very fast into the sky, like a column of light, remaining looking at the dark night sky filled with stars, IN A COMPLETE SILENCE (that I never experienced). I say "complete silence" because before that moment it was like in this world, with a permanent almost imperceptible background noise, but then the complete silence made me feel out of this world, like I was dead, and I thought that I will hear some words, but no words and I came very abruptly into our usual reality with my heart beating incredible hard, like outside of my body, and the first thing I said was: "Thank You for bringing me back!", then I made my first sacrament (oath) from my entire life: "I will tell to all people whom I find not believing in God that GOD EXISTS AND TO THINK MORE ABOUT THIS!". _"In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people; your sons and daughters will prophesy, your _*_young men will see visions,_*_ your old men will dream dreams."_ Acts 2, 17 My vision, which turned me from an atheist into a Christian, was an unique 100% real very powerful event at the limit for my heart to resist. If something like that would have happened again later in my life, I would have a heart attack (thanks God that I was very healthy and athletic at that time). Also, I received it because of two main reasons: 1) In spite of the fact that I have been an atheist, besides some mistakes, I have not done evil on purpose, but I have suffered very much evil from others instead, having a life without vices, being virgin until meeting my wife... I was living a life quite close to the one of a saint; 2) I have asked for a sign to believe from all my heart, in the most serious way. Not the labels that people put one another are important for the Creator of this reality (such as: Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu...) but *our deeds* instead, how we use the freedom He has offered, our free will, to strive always to do only good, to never cause useless suffering (any damage) to others and to ourselves. As Jesus Christ has told us: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

Great discussion. Loved it. Really enjoy watching Alex and I've been a fan of Dr Craig fr a few years. Toshay guys

Wow. This is one of the best atheist/theist discussions I’ve ever heard (and I’ve heard plenty). Alex’s questions were respectful and very sharp, Dr. Craig was very good in his answers and understanding of the points Alex was making, and both went in-depth on areas almost NEVER COVERED by any online debate about the Kalam, pro or con. I learned a lot.

@micahscanz

4 жыл бұрын

If you think this is good, check out the Capturing Christianity moderated discussions featuring Graham Oppy.

@LogosTheos

4 жыл бұрын

These points have been covered in debates before when Craig debated professional philosophers.

@kylexinye1990

4 жыл бұрын

Micah Scanzillo Yeah, Oppy is by far one of my favorite atheists, purely for that reason. There was a point when I didn't have any knowledge of his philosophical stance when he was having a debate with Craig and the respect was so great that I might have been fooled that they held different viewpoints.

@stereopsycho4818

3 жыл бұрын

A five year old knows nothing but CS dont

@Mark-cd2wf

3 жыл бұрын

Kyle Xin Ye According to Craig, Oppy is “scary smart” and recently said that Oppy made the following statement: “We can neither _prove_ nor _disprove _ the existence of God.” That makes a ton of sense to me. It means that it’s up to us to choose to believe/disbelieve in God. Atheists need to stop demanding absolute proof of God, and theists need to stop claiming they have absolute proof. I mean the kind of proof that takes away our _choice_ to believe or disbelieve. Ultimately it’s up to us, and I think that’s fair.

"[Our conversation's] gone in directions I didn't think it would go in"- That's the mark of a really good conversation. Thanks for a the respectful exchange.

brilliant discussion . thank you alex soo much this is something i always questioned.

Fantastic video! Has to be one of my favorite interactions on the subject.

"author of more books than I've been alive" is the smoothest 2 edged flex I've ever heard.

@kitthorton9860

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't think about it in that way, but you're absolutely right

When I was a Christian I watched Craig’s debate with Hitchens at Biola University and thought that it was clear that Craig won. I plan on making a video reacting to it, as an atheist, comparing how I processed things back then vs now.

@sujoygupta5264

4 жыл бұрын

Now THAT's a perspective i'd find really informative!

@NotesFromAutumn

4 жыл бұрын

Sujoy Gupta Great! I’ll put it in the video line up.

@quentinwach

4 жыл бұрын

Please do! :D

@samsaffron3916

4 жыл бұрын

That'd be fascinating!

@LogosTheos

4 жыл бұрын

Even atheists thought Craig won.

"As glad as I am that it's meaningful to say that I wasn't around to witness my parents conception..." (46:18) It wasn't just William Lane Craig who was in stitches! Absolutely hilarious! [:D] If you need to be filled in on the preamble to get the joke, start from 43:45.

@itzyourbwoytchybooxuur6475

2 жыл бұрын

That got me too 😂 😂 😂

Honestly an amazing chat!

I'm a believer in JC and had never heard of you or your channel, Alex (I just search out William Craig discussions bc I'm a huge fan of his), and I have to say how impressed I am at the way you handled the entire conversation with Dr. Craig and I enjoyed listening to both of you back and forth. Very productive format and dialogue. Thank you.

@daveseviltwin11

3 жыл бұрын

Although I can't see him, I too believe in John Cena. Thats what JC means right?

@mism847

3 жыл бұрын

@@daveseviltwin11 Yes

@JCMcGee

2 жыл бұрын

@@daveseviltwin11 Apparently John speaks Mandarin Chinese fairly well, which is nice.

@unamusedcaveman9235

2 жыл бұрын

@@daveseviltwin11 Lmfaoooo

@louiscyfer6944

2 жыл бұрын

you are a huge fan of fallacious arguments?

Alex, I think this format is absolutely amazing - I feel like so many traditional debates get defensive and unproductive way too easily and it‘s rare to see both sides be so civil and actively seek the common ground that unites two differing views in order to better understand where the disagreements lie. What’s clear from watching this is just how significant some of those small differences in fundamental beliefs can be - most of which I feel were really touched on in the last section of the talk. Well done indeed - in my mind I think you nailed the main problem I’ve always had with the Kalam and that is that saying something begins to exist isn’t the same for a human, chair etc as it is for the universe - once that distinction is made it’s clear to me at least that the universe is the only example of something coming into existence without prior components already existing, so we don’t have other evidence to compare to and have to assume the conclusion in the offset, making the argument circular. I hope the result of this discussion is much more of the same, respectful and productive conversation in the community!

@JM-us3fr

4 жыл бұрын

I completely agree. Terrific discussion, and I'm looking forward to Alex's analysis of the points made in this video.

@mrmoffat

4 жыл бұрын

Well said

@hashmiVlogs7

4 жыл бұрын

The kalam doesn’t imply that the Universe began to exist because its components i.e human, earth etc began to exist. There’s no fallacy of composition. Why isn’t it possible for the creator of the Universe to be of different attributes from the creator of a computer if thats what u mean to have a doubt about

@WilliamJohnston

4 жыл бұрын

ABRAR HASHMI maybe you don’t think the Kalam implies that, but Craig specifically uses the ‘every day examples’ of things coming into existence from a cause as ‘common sense’ justification for the first premise. How else do you justify the claim that ‘everything that begins to exist has a cause’, without using those sorts of everyday examples we do see? I’m simply saying that because coming into existence in the case of the universe (ie without prior components) is different to everyday objects coming into existence (perhaps better described as pre-existing matter changing from one thing to another and us labelling it as ‘this thing we call X now exists’), means we can’t justify the first premise with the everyday objects examples, and so you have to then just assume out of intuition that the universe began to exist from a cause (because we have no other examples to compare to), and then you have an argument with the conclusion assumed in the offset - hence forth circular reasoning. The premise, ‘everything that begins to exist has a cause’ needs justification, and we don’t have any from what Craig has said here. So before we get anywhere close to accepting your God claim, we need some sort of good evidence that justifies the first premise of the argument.

@JM-us3fr

4 жыл бұрын

William Johnston Guitarist Both premises could use a little more justification, but I think they are sufficiently justified to grant. For me, it’s his interpretation of the conclusion that I can’t grant; namely “cause of universe=god”. He argues it based on free will, so it goes a little off the deep end

Kudos to Alex and Dr Craig! Respectful, sincere, constructive. And the comment section appreciating this is so good for morale!

I have never seen anyone in any grand formal debate give WLC so much pause as Alex did in this friendly and respectful conversation.

I reckon if this was done even 10 years ago the comments section would be full of people picking sides and having fights Now it seems people are just grateful to see a rational exchange. Which is certainly refreshing

@theirishneilers

4 жыл бұрын

Most of the online atheist community have chilled out a lot over the last decade. It's been helped by the fact that many prominent atheists (Harris, Dawkins, or even Thunderfoot in a KZread context) have turned most of their attention to combatting radical postmodern neomarxism rather than religion. Combatting radical postmodern neomarxism is an area which broadly brings many atheists them into agreement with religious/conservative thinkers (Peterson, Shapiro, Wilson, etc.). To be honest, my early experiences of KZread/internet atheists (2007-2012) weren't pleasant at all - a lot of high-horsing, sneering, superciliousness, etc., but that has largely changed over the last five years or so.

@theirishneilers

4 жыл бұрын

@Rob Lowe Postmodern neomarxists (i.e. intersectionalists) happen to usually be atheists, but generally don't engage with their atheism or bother arguing with religious people, because their main issues/goals lie elsewhere (e.g. feminism, anti-racism, etc.). The 'online internet atheist community' (for want of a better term) on the other hand, used to argue about religion all the time because it was their main issue of concern. In recent years, the rising and often oppressive power of postmodern neomarxists has led to many in the online atheist community turning their attention to combatting that particular ideology, instead of religion. Ironically, most religious people also oppose postmodern neomarxism, which means the religious and much of the atheist community are largely on the same side of the debate against the postmodern neomarxists. Atheists and theists having a common enemy in postmodern neomarxists has played a role in discussions/debates between atheists and theists generally becoming less combative over the last five years.

@utubepunk

4 жыл бұрын

@Rob Lowe Thanks Rob for shitting on the OP's sentiment. It's obvious you came here to poison the well, smear atheists & start shit with anyone who disagrees. Bravo. Edit: Back to worshipping Jordan Lee Peterson with you.

@theirishneilers

4 жыл бұрын

@Rob Lowe You don't get it, most of the online atheist community (followers of Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens etc.) are modernists in the sense that they believe in the existence of objective truth and scientific fact. They intensely dislike postmodern neomarxism, whose claims include rejecting all meta-narratives and rejecting the concept of objective truth.

@tigers14

4 жыл бұрын

@@theirishneilers thats when they realized they have contributed to the eventual downfall of their own society and consequently placed themselves in danger. nothing but arrogant idiots.

I regularly listen to WLC, but I have to say I'm very impressed with Alex. He comes across as respectful, quick-witted, and very bright, and I def admire his intellectual honesty and openness to hearing all sides. Great discussion 👍

@almukhlabi

4 жыл бұрын

He's not like this with Muslims. It was more fear of lack of knowledge than respect, though he does respect him.

@thinboxdictator6720

4 жыл бұрын

don't worry. WLC is riding on a wave of cherrypicked statements of physicists without understanding physics of it too. hint: Alex's position that WLC described as radical or extreme .. is neither of that.

These types of debates we need . As a thiest it's really interesting to see . Hats off alex Connor and William Craig

This was such a thought provoking and interesting conversation!

What a cordial and productive exchange. This was absolutely delightful.

@chimchu3232

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I was pleasantly surprised

@BalaenicepsRex3

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. It's refreshing to see the flow of a good debate like this after watching so many others involving some passive-aggressive folks.

As a Christian, I’m impressed with your openness and seemingly sincere truth seeking. Found this a great discussion!

@jakubbronk673

4 жыл бұрын

@UCEbW7vTTa0YwU5zMj8f2avQ I know this is an atheist channel, but pointless and offensive comments like yours are just toxic.

@JM-us3fr

4 жыл бұрын

I found this to be one of the better discussions I've seen between an atheist and a theist.

@hiddetjevanderwaal2827

4 жыл бұрын

MomoTheBellyDancer I guess I’d disagree with that. I have given this question serious thought for over several years, and think theism, and in particular Christianity, is much more reasonable than atheism.

@lucasthurston6109

4 жыл бұрын

@MomoTheBellyDancer "Small amounts of philosophy lead to atheism but larger amounts bring us back to god" - Francis Bacon

@sasilik

4 жыл бұрын

@@hiddetjevanderwaal2827 reasonable is different for everyone. Momo did not talk about reasonable but about "sincere truth seeking". And there christianity like other religions fail because you only find your peronal "truths" there, only things which you like and have bias toward.

Great conversation! As an atheist, its amazing how far humans have intellectually evolved over the course of our existence. We've gone from a being makes the sun rise every morning, to contemplating way more nuanced arguments and ideas. Not to mention we've changed as a society from "you must believe what your leaders believe" to having the ability and being encouraged to challenge these points of view.

WOW, the best of kind I've ever heard. And yes, a discussion, not a debate.

*comment about how I appreciate 2 people with differing views being able to respectfully debate*

@superfarful

3 жыл бұрын

You can be respectful, doesn't change if you believe in non sense

@jey7230

3 жыл бұрын

@@superfarful what’s nonsense? If everything reduces to a mere illusion then believing in God or not is pointless, nothing matters.

@farzanamughal5933

3 жыл бұрын

Im cuuummingg

@joratto2833

2 жыл бұрын

@@jey7230 That can be said about any argument and is therefore not useful

@toAdmiller

2 жыл бұрын

@@jey7230 Beware of creating False Dilemmas...

This was fantastic. Just absolutely well done on both sides. Very impressed that Alex being as young as he is, holding his own and having a constructive, meaningful, and respectful discussion with such a seasoned and intelligent person as WLC.

@fletchernorwood445

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely 👏

This was a great discussion to listen to, I learned a lot from this

I loved every moment of this, you both have set a standard of how to debate.

This was a blessing to me Alex. I enjoyed the way you interacted with and the respect you gave Craig. It allowed for deep and robust thoughts and answers. I would tune in daily to hear you two. Please consider doing this again and/or making it an ongoing thing.

I was not prepared for the implications of this talk. I also have a rekindled respect for Craig after this, and I thank you for that Alex. This type of discussion is drastically preferable to a debate.

Thank you for this conversation👍

WLC seems to throughly enjoying the conversation. It is amazing and kudos to both gentlemen. 👏

Wow! Talk about breaking barriers my man. Congrats on making this happen!

As a Christian I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and learned a lot. Cosmic Skeptic is such an awesome, thoughtful and deliberate thinker and interlocutor. Dr. Craig was, as always, awesome. God bless both of them - even if Alex doesn't believe - LOL!. Really good conversation though.

@tripp8833

3 жыл бұрын

What - aren’t we supposed to hate each other though??? Lol. As an atheist, I’m glad we get to witness a respectful debate on this topic as well. Have a good day

@langsungaja2151

3 жыл бұрын

@@tripp8833 very diferrent comment here from other atheist youtuber channel.

@josephsack4918

3 жыл бұрын

@@tripp8833 if you think that it just goes to show how much you hate relationships with G-d. If you hate religion you're only fulfilling prophecy.

@Ninterd2

3 жыл бұрын

@@josephsack4918 It was probably just a joke given the rest of the comment.

@josephsack4918

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ninterd2 idk, it's hard to see sarcasm through a comment.

What a great discussion. The perfect example of what philosophical, political, religious, etc... conversations should be like.

This is one of the best pieces of content on KZread.

I am a Christian, and I am happily subscribed to this channel, and I would encourage other Christians to give Alex a listen. This video was incredibly respectful and the topic was well discussed. We need to be made aware of, appreciate and seek to understand all kinds of different points of view in order to find Truth in this world. Thanks Alex and Mr. Craig!

@rosecloudheaven5953

3 жыл бұрын

But you say you are Christian doesn't that mean you already found truth?

@rosecloudheaven5953

3 жыл бұрын

I'm a Christian as well but as a Christian I still believe the Bible and God and Jesus are the ultimate truth it is different to say that I would watch his or any other person's videos to develop a different truth. But rather personally just to be understanding to another's perspective this is a whole different case than to change my views for it for the sake of watching a video.

@danielwmwolf

2 жыл бұрын

You call your self a Christian but refuse the fact that there is no shred of evidence of this wholesale BS with help of book. Harry Potter makes more sense. It doessnt claim to be the real deal and nobody, while enjoying it immensely, claims entitlement just because you can quote stuff. The book of morons is just full of made up shite.

@Berjayacair

2 жыл бұрын

polite discussion are really appreciated 😊

@guilerso7796

Жыл бұрын

@@rosecloudheaven5953 he is probably an agnostic christian, which is a clever position imo since until this very day atheists and theists couldnt prove that they were exactly right (i am an agnostic atheist if you are wondering)

Alex J Oconnor, as far as Ive seen is the most consistent and honest atheist Ive ever watched. I really enjoyed this video as a Christian. It seemed to me that even William Lane Craig enjoyed it. It was a very helpful conversation for me and Im sure it was very helpful for all of those watching.

@JeffreyIsbell

3 жыл бұрын

I agree and this is why I have little respect for people who make wise cracks at Alex' age.

@rockysandman5489

3 жыл бұрын

Most atheists are honest regarding the atheist position. It is WLC and many other apologists who tend to be dishonest, and many atheist channels that breakdown their arguments show this to definitively be the case.

@jafedpimentel8751

3 жыл бұрын

@@rockysandman5489 Cosmicskeptic follows the evidence where it leads everytime. What I mean by honest is this same thing. For example: Sam Harris is not a consistent and honest atheist because he claims objective morality under an atheist worldview. And this is just absurd. On the other hand Alex O Connor is real and consistent with his atheist worldview when he follows his worldview wherever it may lead, no matter the price he has to pay. Nihilism is the path where atheism takes you and he accepts it. I think that is admirable and I believe he is really open to truth. Also, WLC is one of the best philosophers in the world right now. Do not underestimate theists. Even Alex holds him to be someone with upmost caliber.

@rockysandman5489

3 жыл бұрын

@@jafedpimentel8751 There is no problem with being an atheist and claiming objective morality. Morality comes from empathy, which is objectively in existence in the majority of specimen in social species. "Nihilism is the path where atheism takes you" Slippery Slope fallacy, and false conclusion. WLC uses dishonest tactics in his debates, and when he is cornered on every other argument he attempts that backfires on him, his trump card is making an appeal to faith. Is this really a man you consider a "great philosopher"? Seriously?! You've set the bar too low.

@jafedpimentel8751

3 жыл бұрын

@@rockysandman5489 CosmicSkeptic may disagree with you. Check it out. kzread.info/dash/bejne/jImous-Nj9avqKw.html On the other hand, Do not confuse universality with objectivity.

Both of these guys are so brilliant that it took me 10 minutes of listening while on my walk to get even a snippet of information I could adequately process.

I'm about halfway through and I just want to say I have loved this discussion.